JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=TakaDama,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nPKsXcyR,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-18T15:47:09.278+0000) > > I actually think the issue isn't that bruisers (or any class for that matter) are better, but rather that tanks themselves must play extremely passively if alone; which is why most tanks are played support or jungle, and those that arent have some key feature that makes them stronger than normal (Tahm Kench, Sion, the Doran Ring Tank top meta). > > Because of this, solo lane tanks can't do anything to lane bullies. To put it into perspective, it is unlikely that a tank can 1v1 any non-tank top laner, including juggernauts, divers, skirmishers, battle mages, ranged champions like Quinn, Gnar, etc. > > Now that wouldnt be the end all be all it tanks could farm minions well. However, while they have two different tier 2 items (bami's cinder and bramble vest) and one or two tier 3 item that builds out of tank items (Iceborn Gauntlet and Zz'rot Portal), they just dont compare to a melee champion building Tiamat or mage building Luden's Echo or anyone building Runaan's Hurricane or Statik Shiv. > > This would be complicated to fix, but it may be best to determine which tanks should be early game tanks and which should be late game tanks, then tweak their kits and/or itemization to reflect that. I agree on the part that they don't have enough damage, thus cannot 1vs1 anything. However, i do not think damage is the answer. Tanks should just be tankier. They should have mechanics that give them sustain during fights, and to be actually able to survive being focused. {{champion:32}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:154}} None of these can live through being focused by at least 3 people for more than 2 seconds
> [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nPKsXcyR,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-07-18T15:52:44.634+0000) > > I agree on the part that they don't have enough damage, thus cannot 1vs1 anything. > However, i do not think damage is the answer. > Tanks should just be tankier. > They should have mechanics that give them sustain during fights, and to be actually able to survive being focused. > > {{champion:32}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:154}} > > None of these can live through being focused by at least 3 people for more than 2 seconds If you're being focused by 3 people, and 2 of them are damage dealers, why would you last much longer than 2 seconds in a 1v3? Don't blame the tank class for your bad positioning. Also, Thresh isn't a tank.
coreym11 (NA)
: Bot lane has turned so stressful and so cheese to play, doesn't even feel competitive
: The only problem with your analysis is that you overestimate the cunning of the community. No one ~~except Shingetsu~~ buys {{item:3123}} under any circumstance.
> [{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8pEu3Eaj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-18T12:35:45.256+0000) > > The only problem with your analysis is that you overestimate the cunning of the community. > > No one ~~except Shingetsu~~ buys {{item:3123}} under any circumstance. People downvoted this man, but it's literally a struggle in and of itself to get people to spare 800 gold for something that cuts all healing by 40% for the rest of the game. It's almost harder than getting permission for a turn at a dude's wife.
Eedat (NA)
: Still very much a thing ....*cough*on ARAM*cough*
> [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8pEu3Eaj,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-18T20:37:40.109+0000) > > Still very much a thing > > > > ....*cough*on ARAM*cough* I can't express enough how much no one gives a single unit of shit about ARAM when it comes to competitive balancing for this game.
: *Laughs in Raka* The Goat can heal through ignite on any day at any time thanks to how low her CD is compared to Yuumi's. Give that bitch a warmogs and watch her and her adc never die no matter how much grievous wounds you try to apply lmao
> [{quoted}](name=PurpleHentai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8pEu3Eaj,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-18T17:31:56.495+0000) > > *Laughs in Raka* > > The Goat can heal through ignite on any day at any time thanks to how low her CD is compared to Yuumi's. Give that bitch a warmogs and watch her and her adc never die no matter how much grievous wounds you try to apply lmao Warmog Soraka hasn't been a thing in ages.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZwxdRZro,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-07-18T03:47:09.861+0000) > > Why is Blitz that close to Malzahar to begin with without being punished? {{champion:53}} {{item:3800}} {{item:3117}} {{summoner:4}}
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZwxdRZro,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-07-18T05:03:53.114+0000) > > {{champion:53}} {{item:3800}} {{item:3117}} {{summoner:4}} Why is this a consistent problem if you have to blow flash to do it?
: The WHOLE point of Malzahar's shield is to block 1 important spell / dmg amount. Now its useless because this new mechanic totally negates his shield. Meaning Blitz doesn't even have to waste an AA, knockup or Pull all he has to do is R in range.
> [{quoted}](name=Mataka Tek,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZwxdRZro,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-18T02:09:15.694+0000) > > The WHOLE point of Malzahar's shield is to block 1 important spell / dmg amount. > Now its useless because this new mechanic totally negates his shield. Meaning Blitz doesn't even have to waste an AA, knockup or Pull all he has to do is R in range. Why is Blitz that close to Malzahar to begin with without being punished?
Voluug13 (NA)
: > It's a Talon/Katarina. Why WOULDN'T they shit on you eventually? Wasnt counterpicking a bad thing? If you ~outplayed~ your opponent you should win anyways. Thats why Riot got rid of most assassin midlane counterpicks... Oh wait, it was an entirely onesided process, yeah, forgot.
> [{quoted}](name=Voluug13,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JhfEIQBg,comment-id=00000000000100000001,timestamp=2019-07-17T19:16:59.622+0000) > > Wasnt counterpicking a bad thing? Who THE FUCK said that?
: Melee champions without dashes are worthless
I guess Mordekaiser just up and stopped existing.
shofaz (NA)
: Using Riot's Balance Framework on Viktor and Jhin
Your issue: Viktor is considered balanced for the lower elos (everything up to Plat). He's also a risk for bullying THE FUCK out of top lane if he's strong. Thus, he's not being buffed. If Jhin also had a risk of bullying the hell out of top lane and scaling into a late game threat while building tanky, he'd probably *also* not be buffed despite his weakening presence in higher elos. I'm upset that so many of you took the sheep way out and blamed it on favoritism and skin sales rather than using the information presented.
: I disagree assassins can do work even when their spells are down because of their armor pen. But assassins should have really long punishing down times for when they dont properly assassinate a target (which should be done on low health targets not even full hp squishies) but mages should have even longer cooldowns in comparrison to assasssins.
> [{quoted}](name=LordGeovanni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JhfEIQBg,comment-id=00040002,timestamp=2019-07-17T17:49:48.962+0000) > > I disagree assassins can do work even when their spells are down because of their armor pen. Only when they're fed or you're misplaying heavily and consistently. > But assassins should have really long punishing down times for when they dont properly assassinate a target (which should be done on low health targets not even full hp squishies) but mages should have even longer cooldowns in comparrison to assasssins. Assassins tend to have long cds on defensive abilities, such as Zed's W, Akali's...everything except Q, and so on. At least this is the case until they get cdr.
: > [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JhfEIQBg,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T01:07:54.941+0000) > > Syndra has been trash tier for over a year dude. A diamond Syndra main personally taught me how to play her, I fucking love her, and she's still trash as hell. When I can for all rights outplay and win lane against a Talon or Kat and still get shit on, she's trash. Fat lazy cat is also fat uninformed cat ):
> [{quoted}](name=AFK at Keyboard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JhfEIQBg,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-17T14:30:06.958+0000) > > A diamond Syndra main personally taught me how to play her, I fucking love her, and she's still trash as hell. > > When I can for all rights outplay and win lane against a Talon or Kat and still get shit on, she's trash. > > Fat lazy cat is also fat uninformed cat ): It's a Talon/Katarina. Why WOULDN'T they shit on you eventually? You're not buying more than 45 armor, nor are you even looking at Banshee's, but it takes 60 armor/33 MR to nullify an AD/AP pen build, respectively. The point of Syndra is to win lane and close out *before the late game.* If you aren't doing that, you're doing it wrong. You're not entitled to a clean late game because you won early.
FridgeD (EUW)
: "Lulu was forced to support, Sion was forced to top, mages were forced out of bot, etc" mage players are insane. mages were forced out of bot because they made adc utterly useless. no, not evil evil bruisers or assassins, mages made bot unplayable for adcs. mages are the most overpowered class in the whole game and riot favorites without any doubt. prove? if riot loves assassins so much, why didnt they help them in years of tank meta? ask zed players how fun it was, getting outdamaged by full tank gragas. but hey, just for you midlane mage players: taliyah dominated jungle, riot relalized this after just 1 year! ask toplaners how fun laning vs viktor or lulu was! no counter shildspam bot that autowon every lane. so much fun! mages are the only class that has ranged cc and burst dmg. ask any class how fun it is, getting cced and bursted from 1 screen away (or 2 for poke mages, riot finest).
> [{quoted}](name=FridgeD,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JhfEIQBg,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-07-17T10:56:14.739+0000) > > "Lulu was forced to support, Sion was forced to top, mages were forced out of bot, etc" > mage players are insane. mages were forced out of bot because they made adc utterly useless. no, not evil evil bruisers or assassins, mages made bot unplayable for adcs. False. Marksmen were still viable to some degree in bot lane even during that time period. CRIT marksmen were useless, but that could also be because marksman itemization was finally addressed at the time.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JhfEIQBg,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-07-17T06:39:39.164+0000) > > Here's everything I don't like about this thread: > 2) You seem to not understand why assassins have lower cds and mobility in comparison to mages. Assassins are normally *melee* champs. Without gap closers Tell me 1 assassin that doesn't have a gap closer
> [{quoted}](name=Cry of the Celts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JhfEIQBg,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-07-17T10:55:25.695+0000) > > Tell me 1 assassin that doesn't have a gap closer ...you tell me how to respond to this.
: R.I.P Control Mages
Here's everything I don't like about this thread: 1) "Control mage" isn't a class. The mages you're currently advocating for are largely burst mages, but you also seemed to lump in Swain, a Battle Mage, and Ziggs, an artillery mage, into this mix of burst mages. 1a) The burst mages you lumped together are VASTLY different. Syndra is designed to spike in the mid game and nullify enemy carries from a safe distance. Veigar is a late game champ that's designed to more efficiently nullify *anyone* as time passes and his ap increases. Lissandra is a utility pick that garners more damage if she can chain her passive on stragglers, but is largely used for her very reliable cc and fight stalling capabilities. Viktor is a late game scaler with more uptime in fights than Veigar, but less single target burst than him. Vastly different roles, but you lump them together and say they do "no damage"...which is bonkers. 1b) Given the fact that you're complaining about burst mages, why are you putting NEEKO on the antagonistic side of your argument? She's a burst mage that has two rounds of hard cc. How does that not fit into your "control mage" category? Not saying you're right in even talking about a sub-class that doesn't exist, but this is literal hypocrisy. On that note, why are you complaining about Zoe, another burst mage? I honestly could go on with this but I digress since there's other shit to go on about. 2) You seem to not understand why assassins have lower cds and mobility in comparison to mages. Assassins are normally *melee* champs. Without gap closers, they wouldn't be able to do their job of quickly descending on targets and bursting them. On top of that, they need lower cds because, unlike most mages, they're *practically useless* unless their whole rotation's up or they're insanely fed. Mages can be useful in a fight through cc. Most assassins don't have strong cc options to prove useful in a fight. 3) A mage's escape tool is their cc. You don't need a big ass dash when you're already a ranged champ with hard cc. 4) Mages have plenty of defensive itemization. They can literally build a spell shield, after all. The problem is that people look at 60 magic resist, 10% cdr, and 75 ap and go "...man I have NO defensive options". Not to mention mages have plenty of ap + hp items in the game. If you don't want to use your tools, don't, but stop complaining that you don't have them. 5) Juggernauts and tanks are designed to deal with mages, especially mid game oriented burst mages that can't burst through people that build defensive stats. You complaining about it just means they're doing their job.
: Seeing the upvotes, a lot of people have missed the memo
> [{quoted}](name=Abibyama II,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u2aEAlaa,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2019-07-16T07:16:01.318+0000) > > Seeing the upvotes, a lot of people have missed the memo They always do and it baffles me. There was a time where "Responding to a Yenn thread XD" was a meme.
Yenn (NA)
: My lane is 3-0-0 at level 6. I'm being 100 to 0'd in a single combo. I can't play the game.
Whenever responding to a Yenn thread, one should check the match history to make sure the thread isn't baseless complaining...because it's usually baseless complaining.
: Why Vladimir is allowed to have 4000 hp with 800 ap ? It's not fair...
Hot take: A resource-less drain tanking battle mage shouldn't be a late game scaler.
Ahlas (NA)
: Riot, please consider reverting the Riven changes of patch 9.10 and nerfing her in simpler way.
Riven's so stupid rn that she kind of goes *even* with Poppy, despite Poppy being the premiere anti-mobility tank of the game, simply because she has 3 dashes instead of one crucial one. That on top of her ability to take flight over walls and shield herself damn near whenever she pleases (which scales with AD)...honestly you should be happy they're compensating it with more damage output.
: Akali and Aatrox are tied for first probably. I'd barely give it to Aatrox for most broken over Akali.
> [{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XyNOz2oJ,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-07-14T22:27:40.074+0000) > > Akali and Aatrox are tied for first probably. I'd barely give it to Aatrox for most broken over Akali. Irelia broke solo queue AND pro play on her knee before they gutted her mid laning (and she's still good in the mid lane if you're good with her). Akali broke high elo solo queue at worst, and Aatrox was good, but didn't scale as hard as Irelia did (and still doesn't), and that's excluding how she used to scale up easier.
: Out of the 3 reworks (Irelia, Akali, Aatrox)...
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lFLAfMsJ,comment-id=001300000000,timestamp=2019-07-14T18:08:54.554+0000) > > He said he didn't get his primary role in the past **14 consecutive games.** That means IN A ROW. If you looked at his match history at the time of posting, *that was literally impossible. You even said yourself he had a few mid games and his jg was secondary, on top of a few filled marksman games.* Looking at his history from op.gg, in his last 10 games (at the time, not now), he had 3 mid games out of 10. If you looked at it from here, his 11th game (since op.gg only showed the previous 10 at the time) was ALSO mid Qiyana. > > How is that 14 consecutive games of off-role? > > How am I misinterpreting anything? > > Why are you acting like you "owned me" when you just owned yourself? > > Who are the 4 "smart ones" that upvoted your post? Nice try editing your original comment that I already quoted which is still incorrect. You fail in your maliciousness no matter how sneaky you try to be LOL
> [{quoted}](name=Pandemic Punch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lFLAfMsJ,comment-id=0013000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-14T19:21:42.431+0000) > > Nice try editing your original comment that I already quoted which is still incorrect. You fail in your maliciousness no matter how sneaky you try to be LOL I...actually don't know...what you're talking about anymore. 1) OP said he doesn't get mid lane. Specifically, he hasn't gotten mid lane in the last 14 games before posting. 2) I said "Clearly he gets mid lane. He didn't go anywhere near 14 consecutive games of off-role." 3) You say "AHA! I GOT YOU. YOU'RE WRONG! YOU SEE HERE THAT HE GOT MID LANE A FEW TIMES AND THEN PLAYED JG A LOT!" What are you doing? Honestly, what are you doing?
FSRER (EUNE)
: And then there are posts of very high quality about balancing (which deserved to be at gameplay+ that Riot removed and replaced with RANT) and not a single Rioter will answer or say his opinion or if he disagrees or agrees with the ideas. That is how you know when a company stops hearing it's playerbase and it is all going downhill
> [{quoted}](name=FSRER,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=biWEbu5E,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-14T05:23:58.925+0000) > > And then there are posts of very high quality about balancing (which deserved to be at gameplay+ that Riot removed and replaced with RANT) and not a single Rioter will answer or say his opinion or if he disagrees or agrees with the ideas. That is how you know when a company stops hearing it's playerbase and it is all going downhill Blatantly not true. I made a thread back when G+ existed that praised CT's champ designs, and a Rioter popped in to state that it'd be unhealthy if we had too many designers that leaned in his direction of champ design. It was a well-built post with a constructive disagreement from a Rioter. You guys just don't know how to make good posts and no one's gonna waste time telling you. These boards are a cesspool of bellyaching and false statements.
coreym11 (NA)
: Why can't I play lethality jinx mid?
Because you're butchering the entire reason you play Jinx for some random cheese gimmick.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lFLAfMsJ,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2019-07-13T18:38:02.918+0000) > > All these comments just show that I'm the only one that bothered checking the guy's match history to see he has PLENTY of mid lane Qiyana games. > > You guys are sheep. I checked it too but he was talking about recent games not total. Most of his recent games are jungle which tells me he is picking jungle as his secondary role. Since jungle is one of the least played roles and mid is the most played, picking jungle secondary is his issue... If everyone is a sheep, what does that make you since you misinterpreted the post even with all of the information on hand? Lol
> [{quoted}](name=Pandemic Punch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lFLAfMsJ,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2019-07-13T18:42:16.856+0000) > > I checked it too but he was talking about recent games not total. Most of his recent games are jungle which tells me he is picking jungle as his secondary role. > > Since jungle is one of the least played roles and mid is the most played, picking jungle secondary is his issue... > > If everyone is a sheep, what does that make you since you misinterpreted the post even with all of the information on hand? Lol He said he didn't get his primary role in the past **14 consecutive games.** That means IN A ROW. If you looked at his match history at the time of posting, *that was literally impossible. You even said yourself he had a few mid games and his jg was secondary, on top of a few filled marksman games.* Looking at his history from op.gg, in his last 10 games (at the time, not now), he had 3 mid games out of 10. If you looked at it from here, his 11th game (since op.gg only showed the previous 10 at the time) was ALSO mid Qiyana. How is that 14 consecutive games of off-role? How am I misinterpreting anything? Why are you acting like you "owned me" when you just owned yourself? Who are the 4 "smart ones" that upvoted your post?
Yenn (NA)
: I've gone 14 consecutive games without getting my primary role. This is not acceptable.
All these comments just show that I'm the only one that bothered checking the guy's match history. Out of 10 games, 3 are mid, 2 are bot, 5 are jg. How is this anywhere close to 14?
Scazie (EUW)
: Every change since season 4 has just homogenised champion gameplay
I've never seen such a legitimately false take on anything related to this game in at least the last few months.
: Lux DOES NOT need these compensation buffs on her ult
As many have said: Mid lane Lux needs compensation. Support Lux doesn't. So they gave her scaling buffs and knocked her base values out.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EIEtoFYI,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-07-05T21:31:18.312+0000) > > You underestimate just how hard Kench falls off if you think a 40 cs lead is enough to cushion it. He statistically falls off about as hard as any other early game top pick looking at lolalytics, leagueofgraphs and champion.gg. Again it doesn't change the point that most games are decided by the time he falls off well. His graphs are putting his hard fall off where he becomes below average at 25m. Yay! He fell off but we only have 5 minutes left in the game and I have 2k+ gold disadvantage... guess I hope I get this penta. Oh and if you played a early game or mid game top it doesn't matter anyway because your ALSO falling off.
> [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EIEtoFYI,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-11T13:55:53.796+0000) > > He statistically falls off about as hard as any other early game top pick looking at lolalytics, leagueofgraphs and champion.gg. > > Again it doesn't change the point that most games are decided by the time he falls off well. His graphs are putting his hard fall off where he becomes below average at 25m. Yay! He fell off but we only have 5 minutes left in the game and I have 2k+ gold disadvantage... guess I hope I get this penta. Oh and if you played a early game or mid game top it doesn't matter anyway because your ALSO falling off. It's less "most games" and more "slightly more than 50% of games". All you have to do is *not feed* and your bot laner can just dismantle the guy.
: Is there truth to the "Never gank a losing lane" strategy?
Depends on context. You have *no idea* whether this is a potential player that can carry the whole game, but is struggling out the gate, or someone that's gonna do nothing with your presence even if you straight camp them. Safest bet is to at least *try* to successfully gank every lane at least once. You might not always be able to, but don't get in the habit of hyper-focusing on one lane or letting one potentially amazing lane go to shit because you happened to forget they exist. The most important aspect of the early game is shaping the mid game. It's easier to start off the mid game on top when you have more winning lanes. When you forsake a lane, you're *automatically* giving the enemy 1 out of 3 lanes, which means you have to have your other 2 lanes win *even harder* to make up for the one lane you potentially left to the wolves. Sometimes this is required to win. Sometimes this is a death sentence to your chances to win. It depends on context.
: Why do people keep taking Teleport when their support is Yuumi
People take teleport because they forget that having three in-fight sums in and of itself is actually stupid good, whereas teleporting back to lane after getting your ass slapped doesn't necessarily mean anything, and the reason pros take tp is because they don't expect to get 1v1/2v2 kills very often or easily, so the map pressure becomes more important, and thus you don't need to emulate that for solo queue.
: This ADC and Support synergy
: "why are ADCs not building armor"
People will **never** admit it: No one wants to play around tanks in solo queue for tank effective to matter to begin with. Are top lane tanks in a bad spot? Yes, but that doesn't mean that if they weren't in a bad spot, people would play around tank strengths properly, anyway. Too many people complain about dying too fast while building full tank. I'm sorry, but if the game's not a stomp and you're not 1v5'ing, you're not dying THAT fast as a tank. So now that people are complaining about people not "needing" pen to deal with tanks. Who the hell plays tanks to care about pen stats not being built? People complain about all AD comps being "more viable than ever", but who's playing tanks when one shows up? Solo queue is a bastardization of what League really is, so of course people can't appreciate tanks in that type of environment.
Kazekiba (NA)
: So that's it, Isn't it?
ITT: OP is salty because Riot Games decided to make the "s" mean something after a decade of existing.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kanzler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eln0xjkE,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-07-08T19:03:10.854+0000) > > {{item:3193}} Stoneplate is not a good item. It has to rely on at minimum 3 other items. Duskblade? Massive boost by itself Infinity edge? Massive boost by itself Luden’s echo? Massive boost by itself And they all have some innate scaling to their effects as well. Point is. Tanks have no items that are heavy impact. Sure I live 0.2 seconds longer sometimes. But when I can’t do anything but that because my items don’t do anything else, you kinda just get bent over
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eln0xjkE,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2019-07-08T21:10:40.666+0000) > > Stoneplate is not a good item. It has to rely on at minimum 3 other items. > > Duskblade? Massive boost by itself > Infinity edge? Massive boost by itself > Luden’s echo? Massive boost by itself > > And they all have some innate scaling to their effects as well. > > Point is. Tanks have no items that are heavy impact. > > Sure I live 0.2 seconds longer sometimes. But when I can’t do anything but that because my items don’t do anything else, you kinda just get bent over To be fair: Properly using Stoneplate doesn't make you last ".2 seconds longer". That thing's a MASSIVE buff to your overall tankiness when you use the passive right. Also, I find that the problem isn't necessarily "tanks don't last long enough" more than it's "carries are designed to make super quick work out of tanks". Non-carries will find it impossible to deal with a tank in an orderly fashion. Carries melt the shit out of you and there's nothing you can do but build Randuin's so you can survive for like 1 second longer.
SanKakU (NA)
: Revitalize is nice, but FoL is competing with Shield Bash actually. And yeah, even if FoL were a lot better, it would have a hard time being justified IMO because it has to compete with those 2.
> [{quoted}](name=SanKakU,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OBbWs58k,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2019-07-09T09:33:47.721+0000) > > Revitalize is nice, but FoL is competing with Shield Bash actually. And yeah, even if FoL were a lot better, it would have a hard time being justified IMO because it has to compete with those 2. Most enchanters don't take Resolve primary, so they take Revitalize and Bone Plating when they go Resolve.
: Real Talk: Lux Changes
This champ was useless, got discovered, and will be useless again. She scales like shit in this game. She's better off as a support, but they gut the living shit out of her. Now she's useless again. Like, it's so bad they reverted ALL the buffs they gave from the FIRST time they gutted her back in the Lux/Anivia stall meta in season 5 or so.
: Font of Life is underwhelming, even if you hit 5000 HP all it'll heal is 55 over 1.75 seconds
The problem with Font of Life: It's an early game rune that doesn't really beat out Revitalize for enchanters or Demolish for tanks and catchers. The item isn't meant to scale, but its effect IS pretty ass. The ticks of healing it gives are meant for people to continually proc it (support slows you, and then the marksman hits you to repeatedly trigger the 5+ 1% hp heal). It's supposed to offer a slight edge in early trades, but it's better to just heal/shield more whenever you're trying to heal/shield or gamble on hitting turrets with demolish for that fine china. They need a more interesting choice in that slot that defines itself, but given Shield Bash's existence, I don't think they know what to do in that slot.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=0011000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-07T16:57:43.867+0000) > > Do you know what begging the question means? > > Example: We have a cup of water. I say "There's too much water in the cup". The cup isn't overflowing. The cup has no indicators on it. The cup has no measurements on it. You say "Well, I think the amount of water in the cup is fine. Why do you think it's too much?" I then say "Look at how much water is in the cup. That's how I know it's too much." > > This is basically what you're doing. You don't use any measurable metric to make your claim, so you can only make the claim and back it up with "personal experience" and reading off that his attacks do X damage at Y rank. Well, I'm a League player, I have MY OWN personal experience, and I can also read that his attacks do X damage at Y rank. What if I'm right in saying Tahm DOESN'T need nerfs (which isn't what I'm arguing but I'm making a point) versus you being right in saying that he does? You have no means of saying otherwise with the position you've taken. Gonna say it again slower. We...have...numbers...in...his...kit Now imagine if the cup had measurement numbers and lines. Every champ has 4 25 mL cups; damage, sustain, resource, and winrate. You can fill these cups however you want but the total water in the all the collective cups can't pass 100 mL. Tahm's damage cup is at 25, his sustain is at 25, his resource cost is at 25, so these cups are filled to the brim and not overflowing. But you're telling me that because the winrate cup is at 15 the others are fine. See the problem yet?
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=00110000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-07T19:24:38.365+0000) > > Gonna say it again slower. We...have...numbers...in...his...kit > > Now imagine if the cup had measurement numbers and lines. You literally started this whole back and forth by telling me to not refer to his win/pick rate, so no, the cups DON'T have any measurements on them since you yourself refused them. Basically, think of it like this: What measurement are you using OUTSIDE OF THE WATER THAT'S IN THE CUP to tell me that the water in the cup is either too much or not enough? No one cares about if we have 1000 liters or 2 drops of water in the cup. The point is whether it's too much or not. What tells me it's too much if I can't refer to the only measurable metric we have to say so?
: When its 4v5, you're playing like ass, down 7k, 3 infernal, and the enemy is at your nexus...
So you don't surrender to make other people carry you when you feed?
: Unpopular Opinion: Yuumi needs some balance changes.
People are way too concerned with solely the laning phase in a game that has more elements than just laning phase.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=00110000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-07T06:49:43.726+0000) > > No, that's begging the question. Your "experience and kit numbers" assumes that you're already right about Kench being a problem in top lane worth addressing. What indicators about Kench say "Yes, Kench is a balance problem and needs a nerf"? The numbers such as his damage, cooldowns, and mana costs. I don't know what you don't understand about this.
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=001100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-07T09:17:58.410+0000) > > The numbers such as his damage, cooldowns, and mana costs. I don't know what you don't understand about this. Do you know what begging the question means? Example: We have a cup of water. I say "There's too much water in the cup". The cup isn't overflowing. The cup has no indicators on it. The cup has no measurements on it. You say "Well, I think the amount of water in the cup is fine. Why do you think it's too much?" I then say "Look at how much water is in the cup. That's how I know it's too much." This is basically what you're doing. You don't use any measurable metric to make your claim, so you can only make the claim and back it up with "personal experience" and reading off that his attacks do X damage at Y rank. Well, I'm a League player, I have MY OWN personal experience, and I can also read that his attacks do X damage at Y rank. What if I'm right in saying Tahm DOESN'T need nerfs (which isn't what I'm arguing but I'm making a point) versus you being right in saying that he does? You have no means of saying otherwise with the position you've taken.
: >implying this isnt a popular thought
> [{quoted}](name=MaskedMorals,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2019-07-07T04:01:49.585+0000) > > Seeing how this post is 28 : 25, I'd like for you guys to stop pretending like everyone thinks this way.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=001100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-07T02:57:26.439+0000) > > Since I have to do it the long way, what metric are you using to determine that Kench is a problem in the first place? experience and kit numbers, did you not read that last reply?
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=0011000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-07T03:39:03.200+0000) > > experience and kit numbers, did you not read that last reply? No, that's begging the question. Your "experience and kit numbers" assumes that you're already right about Kench being a problem in top lane worth addressing. What indicators about Kench say "Yes, Kench is a balance problem and needs a nerf"?
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=0011000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-06T21:23:13.083+0000) > > So what metric are you using to complain about Kench top? Experience, kit numbers, the stuff that shows where a problem lies.
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=00110000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-06T21:58:49.755+0000) > > Experience, kit numbers, the stuff that shows where a problem lies. Since I have to do it the long way, what metric are you using to determine that Kench is a problem in the first place?
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2019-07-06T17:44:25.231+0000) > > Kench doesn't even have a 52% win rate on u.gg, nor is his pick rate all that high. He's not bad top side in solo queue, but I don't think it's a national emergency like people are making it out to be. Win rate is not a determining factor about something being balanced or not. Ever hear the classic example of a gun vs a sword? The gun has so much advantage but if you waste all the ammo, it's useless. The gun is Tahm. Early game he just beats you. There's nothing you can do except 2v1 and hope he messes up. Even then, you can't 1v1 him, ever. Come late game he falls off harder than champs should. Renekton, as much as I hate to say it, is a pretty good example of how early game bullies should be. He does so much damage early and has sustain, but late game he has to go tanky or he blows up.
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=001100000000,timestamp=2019-07-06T20:53:12.928+0000) > > Win rate is not a determining factor about something being balanced or not. So what metric are you using to complain about Kench top?
: What specifically can I do in this situation?
You have Kog/Taric, a way harder scaling bot lane than the enemy's. You should have put more effort into making sure they didn't get shut down by the Kai'Sa/Lux.
: > The game's needed answers to shield stacking and healers for a long time now, You know where else we need answers? At obnoxious stuff. Things that are simply unfun to the max. But i guess no one cares for fun factor. > Renekton being "countered" by armor died with Conqueror and Shojin's addition to the game. True but in addition to that, renekton falling off died with conq and shojin introduction to the game. He kinda falls off but not that he becomes irrelevant. He remains a solid threat to a good chunk of the backline and a solid frontline most of the times. Conq makes sure his damage will remain relevant and shojin makes sure he will q constantly. > Because he doesn't scale as hard as Irelia does. This doesnt give him the right to outright destroy them. Like i say again, its a point and click that also deals high damage, procs conq and pta and stun for a good duration. Thats just too much. > It's that "League needs anti-healing True but they could just buff GW in the first place. Giving stuff like this on an already strong laner is kinda stupid. Like how the fuck will a maokai survive vs kled? He relies on healing to tank. Conceding lane is his only option but if the other lanes are doing poorly you are royally fucked. Or aatrox. Kled already has the upper hand in the match up. Now he will also be able to essentially remove that extra (40%-70%) healing. And unlike maokai he falls off. Now he will even have stripped his only stuff that enables him to teamfight on a basic ability. You cant even get away from kled because he is rather sticky with his e. > A stronger emphasis on drafting properly? Yes and I'm very consistent on that topic. Ask Moody P if he shows up here. We should be able to draft proper answers to situations. But thats straight up shit. I really cant understand your thinking process. These changes just make these lanes entirely dependent on jungler presence. In yoloq thats unreliable. Or something that is common. What if there are 2 lanes that need continuously jungler help? Like kled vs maokai and yasuo vs xerath. The jungler cant be at both lanes at the same time. And then ofc is the fact that dragon is close at bot.
> [{quoted}](name=Nyarlathοtep,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-07-06T07:45:10.828+0000) > > You know where else we need answers? At obnoxious stuff. Things that are simply unfun to the max. But i guess no one cares for fun factor. Obnoxious stuff like heal spam, mobility creep, and shield stacking? Funny enough, those are the three pillars of one of the worst metas of League, ever. > True but in addition to that, renekton falling off died with conq and shojin introduction to the game. He kinda falls off but not that he becomes irrelevant. Why should he fall off to a point of irrelevancy? Him not being Pantheon doesn't mean he doesn't fall off. > > True but they could just buff GW in the first place. Then that just ruins healing champions outright at the low, low price of 800 gold. > Giving stuff like this on an already strong laner is kinda stupid. Like how the fuck will a maokai survive vs kled? He relies on healing to tank. Conceding lane is his only option but if the other lanes are doing poorly you are royally fucked. Or aatrox. Kled already has the upper hand in the match up. Now he will also be able to essentially remove that extra (40%-70%) healing. And unlike maokai he falls off. - Aatrox needs no charity rn. - Maokai and all top lane tanks need attention rn, regardless of if this is a good idea or not. - You can just pick someone that doesn't rely on drain tanking to fight Kled with. > But thats straight up shit. Maybe it feels bad for you at the time, but there's times where you probs made someone else feel bad in turn. > I really cant understand your thinking process. These changes just make these lanes entirely dependent on jungler presence. That's what junglers are there for, for starters. > In yoloq thats unreliable. Or something that is common. What if there are 2 lanes that need continuously jungler help? Like kled vs maokai and yasuo vs xerath. The jungler cant be at both lanes at the same time. And then ofc is the fact that dragon is close at bot. Learn to play back when you don't have advantage.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=00190000,timestamp=2019-07-06T17:36:29.744+0000) > > It's not exactly a popular opinion. You are still upvoted, so is not that unpopular either, but that wasn't my point anyway. My point was: "Please, please, PLEASE, stop starting your threads with "Unpopular opinion", please. You won't be more special that way, you look just like someone desperately saying "See? I am speaking my mind even if many of you will disagree, how cool is that???", that's just lame. You don't need to state it something like that at all (even when is true), is a fucking dumb trend, pls mercy". Srsly: u said an absolute truth and I couldn't agree more but...that thing is SO cringe.
> [{quoted}](name=SAILOR SATANA,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=001900000000,timestamp=2019-07-06T17:47:13.852+0000) > > You are still upvoted, so is not that unpopular either, but that wasn't my point anyway. It's almost split down the middle, 25 (including myself) to 20. If this was a popular opinion I'd be upvoted through the roof rn. > Srsly: u said an absolute truth and I couldn't agree more but...that thing is SO cringe. Are you here to discuss the thread or are you here to discuss my title? Honestly, you getting into a discussion about my title rather than the content of the thread is the real cringe here, if anything. How do two words bother you that much?
: I'd read this if Tahm Kench didn't run wild in top for 3 patches "he's getting nerfed read pbe hehe xddd" yeah I know, that's why I said 3 patches or if their solution to "X does too much damage and Y can't even keep up" wasn't "buff Y" then maybe I'd read this Riot's balance team is the single biggest joke of the gaming industry, rivaling EA. And given how things have been lately, that's a bold statement I'm ready to make.
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2019-07-06T04:56:53.635+0000) > > I'd read this if Tahm Kench didn't run wild in top for 3 patches > > "he's getting nerfed read pbe hehe xddd" > > yeah I know, that's why I said 3 patches > > or if their solution to "X does too much damage and Y can't even keep up" wasn't "buff Y" then maybe I'd read this > > Riot's balance team is the single biggest joke of the gaming industry, rivaling EA. And given how things have been lately, that's a bold statement I'm ready to make. Kench doesn't even have a 52% win rate on u.gg, nor is his pick rate all that high. He's not bad top side in solo queue, but I don't think it's a national emergency like people are making it out to be.
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chipndip1

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