Pika Fox (NA)
: You havnt given a single reason why shes objectively worse, just apecific scenarios where shes weaker when she has specific scenarioa where shes stronger. Q is a skillshot and needs to be aimed. But it has a larger range, damage and a slow. Heal only heals one target, but is more powerful. Her shield only shields one person.... But its more powerful with infinite duration. Her ult doesnt CC immediately and is only a root, but has more damage, longer CC duration, lower CD and larger zone uptime. Shes factually not a weaker sona. Shes not even sona.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mkpL9tXm,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-15T18:22:03.749+0000) > > You havnt given a single reason why shes objectively worse, just apecific scenarios where shes weaker when she has specific scenarioa where shes stronger. > > Q is a skillshot and needs to be aimed. But it has a larger range, damage and a slow. Sona's Q doesn't miss and its cd and cost is way lower. Yuumi's can be blocked by minions. > Heal only heals one target, but is more powerful. Sona's heal is for herself and one person, so double its value. Also, she shields **for five people** on a way shorter cd than Yuumi's heal charges. > Her shield only shields one person.... But its more powerful with infinite duration. With a cd as short as Sona's, after a bit of mana sustain this point is moot. A constantly refreshing team-wide shield is way better than any other shield in the game. > Her ult doesnt CC immediately and is only a root, but has more damage, longer CC duration, lower CD and larger zone uptime. They can still kill retaliate. They can't retaliate against Sona's. > Shes factually not a weaker sona. Shes not even sona. She's still weaker THAN Sona. That is, if you're looking to use her like you'd use any other enchanter.
: Honestly, I don't know what Yuumi's intended purpose was supposed to be and I think that's the problem. What specifically is she intended to do?
> [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mkpL9tXm,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-05-15T17:42:34.112+0000) > > Honestly, I don't know what Yuumi's intended purpose was supposed to be and I think that's the problem. What specifically is she intended to do? Enhance melee champions if I'm gonna be honest. She's a squishy enchanter that can ride on your Yasuo/J4/Irelia/Akali/Anyone and give them a healing battery and a massive, nearly inescapable team-wide root. She can't be used as a traditional enchanter, but her ability to augment those that lead the charge is second to none in the enchanter space.
: Riot needs a defensive item besides GA for adcs
Dead ass this is the most marksman main post I've ever seen in at least 9 months and 2 weeks.
: It's more or less because these days you can get away with '''''supporting''''' full AP {{champion:99}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:161}} so you don't have to constantly suck the ADC's dick for 45 minutes.
People have been mage supporting since at least season 5. That's **4 years ago.** This shit isn't new.
Axxuka (NA)
: Nami does everything Yuumi does better sadly... Better ult for engage, poke and heal included. Great Stat boost with E for 1v1 Sona also does it better, the only main difference being : Sona can die. I feel like they cutted off alot of power because she's untargetable and should die last on any teamfight when played well, but she gives so little as a support.... Exhaust + Ignite is a plus on suport without losing too much on escapes, but meh. Yuumi shield is extremely risky to get, with 500 AA range, the heal is extremely weak and 21% of her AP given as AD from a support is basically a free BF but all supports got a free stat boost somewhere to give.
> [{quoted}](name=Axxuka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zs18GHpk,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-10T23:47:12.922+0000) > > Nami does everything Yuumi does better sadly... Yuumi's an idea that's good in a vacuum or a world where Riot knew what they were doing with enchanter designs. Neither of these hold true atm. > Sona also does it better, the only main difference being : Sona can die. Sona also hard scales into the late game, so there's MASSIVELY better reward for just playing the game with generally normal levels of risk for an enchanter champion. > Yuumi shield is extremely risky to get, with 500 AA range, the heal is extremely weak and 21% of her AP given as AD from a support is basically a free BF but all supports got a free stat boost somewhere to give. The issue with this analysis, and the main reason I'm responding (to flesh out this point of yours, that is), is that 21% of her AP is valued {{item:3174}} depending on her build as a champion, and that's a massive problem. {{item:3504}} When you want to think on the value of %s in this game, think on them as "X per 100" values. Yuumi gives 21 adaptive force per 100 ap she builds, right? First of all, adaptive force isn't even 1:1 for AD like it is AP, so you're already losing out on a bit (I think it's like .6 AD : 1 AP). On top of this, to even get 40 adaptive force, you'd need 200 ap, which is really only feasible for a support when you build Athene's. To make matters worse, Yuumi doesn't have much need to build Athene's since she only has one attacking move in her kit and it's not super great for applying damage to fill the grail during fights like a Soraka Q, Karma Q, Sona Q, or Nami W. Even Janna would have an easier time filling the thing and dumping it onto someone than Yuumi would. Yuumi would find more value from Censer, Redemption, Crucible, Shurelya's...basically she'd be way more focused on item effects than she'd be raw ap values since her application of ap is rather crap. Thus, at most, you'd expect her to have *roughly* 100 ap each game. Even worse, this is if you MAX W, which you have no room to do. You need Q to lane and you need E to skirmish and team fight. W will give 5 adaptive force per 100 ap until level 14. It looks WAY worse when you take the time to flesh it out.
: Honestly the only reason shyvana isn't doing well is because Jungle is bad for hard farming junglers right now. If they can't gank extensively to snowball their laners, they don't do well right now. Early game, heavy gank junglers and junglers that can funnel are what's meta right now. Shyvana doesn't really do either of those. She doesn't have a lot of gank potential before level 6, so the only thing she has going for her right now is that she's good at taking dragons, but even that doesn't help if the enemy lanes are being snowballed and they keep vision on dragon pit to come and knock you out if you dare to show up there. Late game junglers just don't function well right now because of all the jungle nerfs.
> [{quoted}](name=theChibiTina,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P2iA81NO,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-05-11T00:15:31.347+0000) > > Honestly the only reason shyvana isn't doing well is because Jungle is bad for hard farming junglers right now. With how Riot's running the game, this isn't a "right now" thing. This is indefinite. Also, Karthus jg is doing fine. Nunu jg is doing fine (in solo queue). It's not hard and fast farming that's down right now. It's just Shyvanna.
: Chalice of Harmony's passive makes no sense for the champions that use it.
In Jinx's case, though, she has more mana because she won't build any and she's spending 20 per AA.
: https://youtu.be/LKt3NwcZZGg
> [{quoted}](name=Corrector1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T3JbGEOe,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-10T20:27:56.925+0000) > > https://youtu.be/LKt3NwcZZGg I have never seen anything so obnoxious in anime in my life.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P2iA81NO,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-05-10T17:14:14.815+0000) > > HOWEVER, Squad5 is in charge of the rework so here's hoping he works on Mundo, who requires the least work out of all of them. Is this some top secret insider info? Because I can't find anything about this anywhere unless I'm blind. Anyways, you can still fuck it up even if it takes the least amount of work, and Squad5 is the master of gimmicks so he would probably add a gimmick or two and be done with it Edit: [the only thing I found so far was Spideraxe asking Reav3 if it's Squad5 who's going to handle it or not](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/bmkh00/vote_for_2020_rework_fiddlesticks_shyvana)
> [{quoted}](name=Abibyama II,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P2iA81NO,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2019-05-10T19:41:43.752+0000) > > Is this some top secret insider info? Because I can't find anything about this anywhere unless I'm blind. > > Anyways, you can still fuck it up even if it takes the least amount of work, and Squad5 is the master of gimmicks so he would probably add a gimmick or two and be done with it > > > Edit: [the only thing I found so far was Spideraxe asking Reav3 if it's Squad5 who's going to handle it or not](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/bmkh00/vote_for_2020_rework_fiddlesticks_shyvana) Moody P told me Squad5 would be on it. I absolutely DO NOT like his track record. None of his champs feel all that good in the game. Ornn's...ok? Ivern's horrible. Sylas is a mistake.
: Cuz the jg can just pick poppy and laugh at how easy it is to get kills and watch her be 0/15 by 25 minutes
> [{quoted}](name=Jimmy Rustles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YLEL3yFM,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-10T19:33:59.268+0000) > > Cuz the jg can just pick poppy and laugh at how easy it is to get kills and watch her be 0/15 by 25 minutes Honestly when I see Irelia mid I just go Poppy mid.
BigFBear (EUW)
: I said we are rushing into tank meta. Most of these buffs/changes are pretty new. Let the people realize. They need time to adjust their champion pool, builds, playstyle etc.
> [{quoted}](name=BigFBear,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GWY2v5LZ,comment-id=00040001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T18:04:16.768+0000) > > I said we are rushing into tank meta. > Most of these buffs/changes are pretty new. > Let the people realize. They need time to adjust their champion pool, builds, playstyle etc. People have been talking about the "impending tank meta" ever since I left the game for like 2 months or more at this point. It's not happening anytime soon.
BowWowzer (OCE)
: Duo supports better than traditional bot lane?
Supports are strong early. The issue is that they get outscaled. If you're ONLY worried about lane, the reason why duo support would lane better is because they're designed to.
BigFBear (EUW)
: Did i ever say that no one is playing Khazix anymore?? I just said that 8 out of top 9 (in wr) are tanky.
> [{quoted}](name=BigFBear,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GWY2v5LZ,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2019-05-10T17:45:33.233+0000) > > Did i ever say that no one is playing Khazix anymore?? > I just said that 8 out of top 9 (in wr) are tanky. Elise and Karthus? Like, if you're talking about a *tank meta,* shouldn't the top champs be **tanks,** not skirmishers, assassins, and fighters?
Moody P (NA)
: "I don't play Shyvana" Might as well just stop there; you don't, you wont and you never will play Shyvana, so why pretend you want her improved other than to spite her player base? Its fairly consistent pattern for these replacements to alienate their original base.
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P2iA81NO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-10T16:11:53.366+0000) > > "I don't play Shyvana" > > Might as well just stop there; you don't, you wont and you never will play Shyvana, so why pretend you want her improved other than to spite her player base? Its fairly consistent pattern for these replacements to alienate their original base. That's an unfair critique. I played old Poppy *once.* However, I always liked the idea of playing Poppy. Now that she was reworked, she's my favorite top laner (and favorite melee champion outright, honestly). You can come from a "play against" perspective to critique a champion. > [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P2iA81NO,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T16:55:31.292+0000) > > Which VGUs are good? > The only good VGUs to date are Poppy and Akali. Everybody else is mediocre or garbage. Volibear and Shyvana are in the same camp of low popularity champions as Galio and Aatrox. There's absolutely nothing exciting about this prospect. I stand by Irelia indefinitely. Swain is "ok". Aatrox is (finally) "aight". Urgot's is pretty good.
: Let’s stop kidding ourselves: Shyvana needs a full scale update the most - and it’s not even close.
Here's the thing, HD: Volibear is the most deserving of a relaunch since there's literally never been a time where Volibear was legitimately good in a meta for very long, unlike Shyvanna. HOWEVER, Squad5 is in charge of the rework so here's hoping he works on Mundo, who requires the least work out of all of them.
HailFall (NA)
: I am new to league but I have been playing hots for a long time, so I have a general grasp of concepts like map awareness, soaking exp, stutter stepping, and so on. I was a valeera main so I also have experience with more assassin specific concepts like intercepting rotations, ganking, etc. I am not completely clueless
> [{quoted}](name=HailFall,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YqjQOwIe,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-05-10T13:00:54.872+0000) > > I am new to league but I have been playing hots for a long time, so I have a general grasp of concepts like map awareness, soaking exp, stutter stepping, and so on. I was a valeera main so I also have experience with more assassin specific concepts like intercepting rotations, ganking, etc. I am not completely clueless I think you need to calm down and learn *League of Legends* more before making broad claims about *League of Legends.*
BigFBear (EUW)
: Dude we are rushing into tank meta with mach 3. Haven't you noticed yet? - Cinderhulk Buff - Aftershock change forces it's users to build more tanky - Several Resolve Rune buffs - Several Tank/Juggernaut Buffs - Scuttle change favours tanky Junglers 8 of the top 9 Junglers in Plat + are tanky champs already (Yi is the 1 who is not). https://lolalytics.com/deu/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champions/
> [{quoted}](name=BigFBear,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GWY2v5LZ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-05-10T05:07:52.966+0000) > > Dude we are rushing into tank meta with mach 3. > Haven't you noticed yet? > > - Cinderhulk Buff > - Aftershock change forces it's users to build more tanky > - Several Resolve Rune buffs > - Several Tank/Juggernaut Buffs > - Scuttle change favours tanky Junglers > > 8 of the top 9 Junglers in Plat + are tanky champs already (Yi is the 1 who is not). > > https://lolalytics.com/deu/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champions/ Ah yes, the infamous tanks Kha'Zix, Karthus, Vi, Hecarim, and let's not forget Elise and Evelynn. All these TANKS in my jungle.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vXwwNiOy,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-05-08T23:22:18.090+0000) > > If this is advertised as the biggest eSport on the planet, it should play like it. Right now solo queue feels like the most blatant practice in competitive coin flipping I've ever seen. Even games like Pokemon have more competitive integrity than this game when I at least know that there's a 0% chance that someone will come out the bushes and just force me to lose the match. Having played VGC in Pokemon the RNG is a huge part of the game. Whoever gets the crits, the one turn wake ups, the lucky freezes, etc is usually going to win. As far as integrity goes, it's getting a lot better. But in the early years, pokecheck and other cheating sites enabled people to get perfect mons that couldn't be detected by the anti cheating software. So if you weren't stupid enough to make a mon with stats beyond the maximum or with a move it was impossible for it to have, you could cheat all you wanted pretty much. It really had no integrity to it.
> [{quoted}](name=BigBellBrute,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vXwwNiOy,comment-id=000000020001,timestamp=2019-05-10T01:19:11.897+0000) > > Having played VGC in Pokemon the RNG is a huge part of the game. > Whoever gets the crits, the one turn wake ups, the lucky freezes, etc is usually going to win. > As far as integrity goes, it's getting a lot better. But in the early years, pokecheck and other cheating sites enabled people to get perfect mons that couldn't be detected by the anti cheating software. So if you weren't stupid enough to make a mon with stats beyond the maximum or with a move it was impossible for it to have, you could cheat all you wanted pretty much. It really had no integrity to it. I already know the details, and the point of VGC is to set up your team to not need the RNG factors in the game in order to win. Beginner/Intermediate players are the ones that lean more on RNG. People that advance beyond that think of comps and strategies that do more than pray for paralysis ticks.
: > [{quoted}](name=Big Ol Idiot Man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6cWailvh,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-09T21:16:30.687+0000) > > https://imgur.com/a/YnzHgqq I respect that you worked hard for those kills and it probably took some skill to get them, but consider one thing; How was your team supposed to get ahead? Carrying is more than a high score, it's funneling your team, it's getting them caught up. Transferring your lead means using it to get the rest of your team up to speed so you all can end sooner. Giving kills to your team can un tilt them too.
> [{quoted}](name=Mavëríck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6cWailvh,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-05-09T21:54:47.590+0000) > > I respect that you worked hard for those kills and it probably took some skill to get them, but consider one thing; How was your team supposed to get ahead? Carrying is more than a high score, it's funneling your team, it's getting them caught up. Transferring your lead means using it to get the rest of your team up to speed so you all can end sooner. > > Giving kills to your team can un tilt them too. You say it like it's easy to just underhand pass your allies sacks of gold in the middle of a League match.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vXwwNiOy,comment-id=0000000200000000,timestamp=2019-05-09T21:40:08.290+0000) > > Full stop. No one's concerned about people playing poorly. I'm concerned with people intentionally giving up games, intentionally being uncooperative or combatant with their teammates, and/or afk'ing games to make people lose. No one's talking about randoms that lose team games. That happens in all team games. My issue is the toxicity of this community making solo queue a horrible experience. People are too concerned with their ego to just play League of Legends and it's been getting worse every season. Even super minor one-liners that are slightly aggressive can turn into a full blown loss because someone gets THAT MAD over a cannon minion or a scuttler. THAT shit is the problem. > > The streamers that go from unranked to whatever-the-fuck are all carry players and/or they duo games. **Not everyone plays carry champions to abuse this cesspool of a community, and not everyone has a duo to reliably call on for solo queue games.** and what I'm telling you if you want to play with ppl who have a grasp on the game, to get out of bronze or silver you have to abuse the enemy team with champions that can pub stomp players who make a lot of mistakes which is anyone s3 and below. Even then if you return to the champs you want to play, you still have to become good enough to carry in soloq. because the higher you go the better your decision making has to be in a team environment.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenTeaAndPoro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vXwwNiOy,comment-id=00000002000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-09T21:46:25.299+0000) > > and what I'm telling you if you want to play with ppl who have a grasp on the game, to get out of bronze or silver you have to abuse the enemy team with champions that can pub stomp players who make a lot of mistakes which is anyone s3 and below. Even then if you return to the champs you want to play, you still have to become good enough to carry in soloq. because the higher you go the better your decision making has to be in a team environment. I'm not Bronze or Silver for that to pertain to me.
Kai Guy (NA)
: Tips on how to view teammates less harshly thus tilt less as a player.
The fact that someone feels the need to make a thread like this to begin with is a sad testament on the community at large. Like it's **actually** that common that people will log in to play a 5v5 team game and view their own teammates as the enemy over the enemy team. I'm not even saying the thread's bad. It's sad that the thread *isn't* bad.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vXwwNiOy,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-05-08T23:22:18.090+0000) > > If this is advertised as the biggest eSport on the planet, it should play like it. Right now solo queue feels like the most blatant practice in competitive coin flipping I've ever seen. Even games like Pokemon have more competitive integrity than this game when I at least know that there's a 0% chance that someone will come out the bushes and just force me to lose the match. pokemon games you don't have to carry a team and have much less decision making and bigger window to strategize. League you have to think on your feet. There are streamers and vids on youtube who do unranked to diamond. In soloQ how do you think they do it? luck? no. they are very good at the game. They learned how to carry through the ranks. I have heard rom a diamond streamer that d1-d2 is a coin flip though because thats where the skill becomes very minisqule. Also noone forces you to lose the match. its a team effort. And theres always something you can do better. Theres always something you can do to help your team and this goes for each lane.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenTeaAndPoro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vXwwNiOy,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2019-05-09T14:19:03.459+0000) > > pokemon games you don't have to carry a te- Full stop. No one's concerned about people playing poorly. I'm concerned with people intentionally giving up games, intentionally being uncooperative or combatant with their teammates, and/or afk'ing games to make people lose. No one's talking about randoms that lose team games. That happens in all team games. My issue is the toxicity of this community making solo queue a horrible experience. People are too concerned with their ego to just play League of Legends and it's been getting worse every season. Even super minor one-liners that are slightly aggressive can turn into a full blown loss because someone gets THAT MAD over a cannon minion or a scuttler. THAT shit is the problem. The streamers that go from unranked to whatever-the-fuck are all carry players and/or they duo games. **Not everyone plays carry champions to abuse this cesspool of a community, and not everyone has a duo to reliably call on for solo queue games.**
: Listen, do you want to become diamond someday? why? whats the point? its just a rank and its just a game. Thats the way I look at it. There's really no point in being good at the game anyways or getting upset. Just have fun. :)
> [{quoted}](name=GreenTeaAndPoro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vXwwNiOy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-08T01:12:45.153+0000) > > Listen, do you want to become diamond someday? why? whats the point? its just a rank and its just a game. Thats the way I look at it. There's really no point in being good at the game anyways or getting upset. Just have fun. :) If this is advertised as the biggest eSport on the planet, it should play like it. Right now solo queue feels like the most blatant practice in competitive coin flipping I've ever seen. Even games like Pokemon have more competitive integrity than this game when I at least know that there's a 0% chance that someone will come out the bushes and just force me to lose the match.
: Bored with coin flip burst games. Give me some offmeta support suggestions.
This is the reason why solo queue sucks. Nothing the balance team does changes the mentality of the players in solo queue.
: Where is Yuumi's skill expression?
If you're just attaching to a marksman you're a good Yuumi, not a great Yuumi.
: Why is support such a disliked role?
Because nothing feels worse than knowing how to win and losing because someone decided they simply don't like someone on the team so much that you "don't deserve" to win in their special needs minds.
: I took notes on my last 20 ranked games. Made some interesting observations.
8/18 valid games are losses due to someone feeding, and 2 out of 20 games had afks. Your own notes indicate that it was literally impossible for you to climb at all during this experiment, and even if you did, your gains would be minimal over the span of 20 games.
Mártir (EUW)
: Are you kidding? Grievous wounds got nerfed from 50% to 40% years ago. Soraka and Vlad are strong ATM.
> [{quoted}](name=Mártir,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPniWAsV,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-05-03T12:12:32.918+0000) > > Are you kidding? > Grievous wounds got nerfed from 50% to 40% years ago. > Soraka and Vlad are strong ATM. Because no one in solo queue actually knows how to build the item before they cause a snowball, no because it's weak.
: Doesn't new Aatrox's reworked ultimate basically turn him into exactly what he used to be?
Well his old kit was basically "Drain Yi" so I don't necessarily care for it.
Maisanai (NA)
: your post really makes it sound like you don't think any supports have skill expression, and that Yuumi is somehow unique in having it. She might be raising the bar, and that's fine, but pretty much all supports require skill to play them well. Just like any other champ.
> [{quoted}](name=Maisanai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yhHpUFn,comment-id=0000000100010000,timestamp=2019-05-03T12:28:42.283+0000) > > your post really makes it sound like you don't think any supports have skill expression, and that Yuumi is somehow unique in having it. She might be raising the bar, and that's fine, but pretty much all supports require skill to play them well. Just like any other champ. I made a post to point out a problem. The supports that don't exhibit this problem aren't apart of this post. That includes picks like Nami, Thresh, Braum, Pyke, and Morg. Newer support designs are trending in a more positive direction. My issue comes from the older ones.
: She will be played ADC by those that are good at the game Riot cant release her like she is on the PBE The whole (You cant attack me) thing is too OP You will see Her and {{champion:31}} her and {{champion:223}} her and {{champion:36}} her and {{champion:32}} Bot
> [{quoted}](name=XXXMurderPenguin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yhHpUFn,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-05-03T09:28:10.442+0000) > > She will be played ADC by those that are good at the game > > Riot cant release her like she is on the PBE > > The whole (You cant attack me) thing is too OP > > You will see > > Her and {{champion:31}} her and {{champion:223}} her and {{champion:36}} her and {{champion:32}} Bot I don't think you realize that she can't auto-attack when she's attached to someone.
: Skilled Aggressive Ruthless
Idk but it's the reason I didn't pick the Warband.
GigglesO (NA)
: I don't think that is it. Damage is too high can refer to either damage being too strong, or tank/tank items being too weak. To me if you say defense is low or damage is high you may as well be saying the same sentence.
> [{quoted}](name=GigglesO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pJpEeq8v,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-03T01:06:28.096+0000) > > I don't think that is it. Damage is too high can refer to either damage being too strong, or tank/tank items being too weak. > > To me if you say defense is low or damage is high you may as well be saying the same sentence. It's a correlation to say the least. I'm trying to put it in a way where it's easier to digest. Like...it's not "holistic damage" that's too high if you ask me. It's "measures against tanks" being too strong. Now, those measures *do* include damage dealing tools, but it's the measures that are targeted against tanks that I believe are the problem, not necessarily damage when some 7/1/2 Zed slaps my Nami back to the Nexus.
: Have you been listning to hashinshin lately? Tanks have some of the best items in the game-barring Mage items. For 800 gold they Can DOUBLE their armor. And if conqueror-using Bruisers are giving them trouble? Thornmail puts a stop to that.
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Zeta 1313,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pJpEeq8v,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2019-05-03T02:55:05.837+0000) > > Have you been listning to hashinshin lately? > > Tanks have some of the best items in the game-barring Mage items. For 800 gold they Can DOUBLE their armor. And if conqueror-using Bruisers are giving them trouble? Thornmail puts a stop to that. Aight
: So raise the skill cap for support players is what you are saying. Ok, heres an example here, ADCs right click only. Tops only split push. Junglers either always gank or never gank while trying for objectives sometimes. Mid laners just build damage and if they cant burst then they are useless. Supports are useless and cant do anything unless its point and click. There we go. Summed up all of league for you by your standards. Nobody is left out. Feel free to explain anything that is wrong with my generalizations on ALL of the roles. I catered this using the logic that you are trying to show here.
> [{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yhHpUFn,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-02T23:34:56.600+0000) > > So raise the skill cap for support players is what you are saying. Not the cap. The floor. Or rather, flesh out the kits of the more 1-note supports so there's more going on to the lane than just "I can't walk up because X is my opponent". > Ok, heres an example here, ADCs right click only. Tops only split push. Junglers either always gank or never gank while trying for objectives sometimes. Mid laners just build damage and if they cant burst then they are useless. Supports are useless and cant do anything unless its point and click. > > There we go. Summed up all of league for you by your standards. Nobody is left out. Feel free to explain anything that is wrong with my generalizations on ALL of the roles. Marksmen: I absolutely hate marksman designs in this game and that's another essay for another day, but you're unironically right in the fact that they rely too much on unavoidable, ranged damage that amps up in intensity and frequency over the course of the game. Tops: There's different types of top laners that do different things. They don't all split push, and just because you split push doesn't mean your core game play is as simply as most supports. JGs: Same as tops. There's wildly different types of play styles that incorporate different patterns for ganking, clearing jg, as well as behaviors when team fighting starts, and all of these things are still more multi-faceted than most supports. Mid: You're trying too hard. Support: Aren't useless, and not all of them are low-variance, 1-trick pony type champions. So you unironically got the marksman one and missed the others by a mile. Assuming your goal was to emulate my opinions on the matter.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yhHpUFn,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T22:27:10.804+0000) > > 1) Why are you grilling me over what I know or don't know as a support player after I told you I have 3 million mastery between two support champs? Stay on topic. > > 2) You're focusing on that skill expression bit, but the main point of what's being discussed here (one of them, anyway) is that, where Yuumi's strengths and weaknesses are clearly defined and fit certain aspects of the game on a broader scale, other support picks are very generalized in their contributions and can do a good deal of what Yuumi does and then some without having to worry as much about mechanical execution. > > Look at your Ali vs. Soraka example. Soraka has E up and Ali has his combo up. If Alistar wants to win here, he has to land his combo at the right time so he won't get hit by Soraka's E. Problem is that there IS NO right time without outside interference. The second Alistar begins his dash is the second Soraka puts down E on top of her carry, and then he can't do his combo and the interaction ends with his engage on cd. All she did was press E on top of her carry. There's no nuance to it outside of timing her E to when Alistar throws his W. Likewise, Alistar winning lane against an opponent like Sona is basically an exercise of him walking up to the Sona. Likewise, Sona winning lane against someone like Janna or Karma is an exercise of pressing Q within 850 range of them until their health eventually depletes. > > You can "know the match-up" and what-not. The problem is that these interactions between champions are largely one-note. I don't have issue with good or bad match-ups, but these interactions are too shallow. Tldr "if the champion isn't some massive flashy thing then It's bad for the game" You do know that in the soraka vs Ali thing you can also just flash pulv with Ali right? Skill expression exist with every single champion you not wanting to admit it because "its not flashy" or whatever is completely pointless. A sona needs to know when it's the right time to go in, when it's better to use the each of the "enhanced" autos, when it's the right time to use the ult. Janna has to know when to use her shield effectively, when it's the right time to use her W how long to hold Q, when to ult at the right moment. Yes you can just mindlessly press E on Janna and do ok but its vastly different to see a Janna that all she does is shield vs one who uses her abilities at the right moment. It's not flashy but it is there. Knowing how to use your skills effectively vs whoever you are facing is skill expression. Knowing that certain champions can deal with your main strategy and how you handle those situations is a form of skill expression. Could be as little as "wait out the skill/bait it out" or it could be playing mind games or coming from a different angle. Every single time I hear "X champion has next to no skill expression" or similar things I just laugh since it shows how close minded people are.
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yhHpUFn,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-02T22:48:02.427+0000) > > Tldr "if the champion isn't some massive flashy thing then It's bad for the game" Where did I say that? I don't see where Nami's some super flashy play maker, or where Braum is, but there's a reason I didn't call on those champs and I never ever do. However, let's hash this out a bit. Excluding flash plays, everything you're talking about is more along the lines of knowledge over skill. There's no real meaningful interaction between me and the opponent if I just "know to shield their attack on time" or "know to polymorph them" and that's a problem that we've continually allowed to fester for years. Should EVERYONE be firing skill shots like it's laser tag? No. However, plenty of supports, especially the older ones (which consequently encompasses most enchanters), have way too little for opponents to work around to create a meaningful interaction. The only hope they have is if someone else walks into their cds before they do. Like, here's a mental exercise. All this romanticization about Sona and Janna and all that, think of it like this: For every action an enchanter like them have, what is the appropriate response for an enemy responding to it? If there is none, or if the answer is "Just don't bother until it's on cd", then you'll hopefully realize what I'm getting at. The problem is extremes of this logic where we glorify knowledge expression because we're too afraid to admit that supports don't offer much variance in their game play, which means too many interactions are decided just by virtue of existing.
: 1) Grilling? No. I am saying there is things that possibly you even did not know/realize. They are parts of the kit that people tend to fail to realize is even a thing. This is all part of skill expression and champion mastery expression. 2) So you can pick and choose and yet I can not? I clearly stated many things that those strengths can be turned to weaknesses quite easily. Like some big muscle builder with thick arms etc, but cant scratch their own back anymore. I am just saying that Yuumi is going to be similar to Sona. So much potential of things that you can do, but everyone will only ever acknowledge her empowered Q. Same as everyone will only acknowledge Yuumi being attached to the ADC all game and just giving a power boost and doing nearly nothing else. 3) Yet. You can flash Ali's knock up, you can choose to go a little tankier to avoid being instantly killed, heal up, reduce the enemy ADC's damage, your ADC is there and kills enemy adc, then you go for Ali. To me, I prefer flash Qing on the enemy and then knocking them into my allies/tower. What you are refering to is their MOST USED combos or spells. That is not what defines them. That is what players who have no clue what they are talking about defines them.
> [{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yhHpUFn,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T22:47:00.609+0000) > > 1) Grilling? No. I am saying there is things that possibly you even did not know/realize. They are parts of the kit that people tend to fail to realize is even a thing. This is all part of skill expression and champion mastery expression. But why ask me if I even play support? All that was extremely irrelevant to the topic at hand. > 2) So you can pick and choose and yet I can not? I clearly stated many things that those strengths can be turned to weaknesses quite easily. Like some big muscle builder with thick arms etc, but cant scratch their own back anymore. I am just saying that Yuumi is going to be similar to Sona. So much potential of things that you can do, but everyone will only ever acknowledge her empowered Q. Same as everyone will only acknowledge Yuumi being attached to the ADC all game and just giving a power boost and doing nearly nothing else. Well...it's my topic, so I kinda can. You can...sort of, but there's a target to aim for when making a point. This isn't necessarily about "if skill expression exists in supports and do we value it enough". This is about "Is there enough ways to play around certain picks in bot lane when they aren't gutted to hell that we justify creating more supports?" (partly, anyway). The whole point of an RPG or RPG-like game is that one character *can't* do everything on their own. Each person plays a role, right? As the roster grows, the individual parts need to be more compartmentalized so that new characters can be added without being stepped on by older characters. That's *really hard to do* when your kit either does too much or does too much for too little. > 3) Yet. You can flash Ali's knock up, you can choose to go a little tankier to avoid being instantly killed, heal up, reduce the enemy ADC's damage, your ADC is there and kills enemy adc, then you go for Ali. To me, I prefer flash Qing on the enemy and then knocking them into my allies/tower. What you are refering to is their MOST USED combos or spells. That is not what defines them. That is what players who have no clue what they are talking about defines them. You can't choose to be tanky enough to not die/lose all sums to an Alistar engage + Ignite at level 3. And yes, when your game play relies *way too heavily* on one more over your other moves, one move will largely define you. What do you think the Kench changes were for? Why do you think Janna's E is on a 17 second cd now? You gotta really think the topic over before it comes together.
: Rest in Peace, Tahm Kench
This whole thread is a large scale exercise in being confident in being wrong, huh?
: So in all that time, do you: 1) use Q and E alternating to get to lane faster for Nami? 2) Use E to help your ADC farm the casters under turret? 3) Stay slightly behind your team to ulti them into a fight for double the move speed and then proceed to knock up and slow the enemy? 4) Do you pick and choose between a more defencive supporty or more offensive bursty Sona? 5) Do you pick and choose whether to just empowered Q on Sona rather than damage reduce/move speed reduce the enemy? 6) Do you empower yourself with your E on Nami to make it easier to hit your Q? 7) Do you empower an MF's bounce shot so that it applies the procs? Those are all forms of skill experession. It is not the "fanciest", but you can always tell when someone knows their champion because they know the nuiances with them. Most of the supports you listed, if you go in at the wrong time... or if you mess up at all... then it could be the difference between saving an ally, saving an enemy, killing an ally, or killing an enemy. Heck, its funny when Soraka plants a E when an Alistar is going to charge in with his headbutt so that he does not get the knock up but still gets the knock back. There is many examples of this of just how harshly even other supports think of eachother. They never have a clue what goes into playing the champion.... they just know "thats what they do". _____ With Yuumi, She will have her own characteristics. The bad ones will ALWAYS be attached. The good ones will probably be firing their Q, going onto an ally, moving the Q into the enemy because then it will wrap around (just an assumption of something she might be able to do). They will be popping on and off of the ally to do the autos, they will be juking shots by going onto the ally. Bad ones will have a Maokai going wiyh Twisted Advance (his targetted root where he follows the champion) and bring him right onto the ally ADC. Getting the ADC instantly stuck with a Maokai right on them. Could be good or bad depending on the situation. There is a lot of skill expression for many champions that can be exploited and used against them if you do it right. You can even flash with a Thresh following you with the hook. You can flash after Leona gets you with her E but before she pulls herself to you. After that, you can root/stun/bind her under a tower or something.
> [{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yhHpUFn,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T21:45:20.011+0000) > > So in all that time, do you: > > 1) use Q and E alternating to get to lane faster for Nami? > > 2) Use E to help your ADC farm the casters under turret? > > 3) Stay slightly behind your team to ulti them into a fight for double the move speed and then proceed to knock up and slow the enemy? > > 4) Do you pick and choose between a more defencive supporty or more offensive bursty Sona? > > 5) Do you pick and choose whether to just empowered Q on Sona rather than damage reduce/move speed reduce the enemy? > > 6) Do you empower yourself with your E on Nami to make it easier to hit your Q? > > 7) Do you empower an MF's bounce shot so that it applies the procs? > > Those are all forms of skill experession. It is not the "fanciest", but you can always tell when someone knows their champion because they know the nuiances with them. > > Most of the supports you listed, if you go in at the wrong time... or if you mess up at all... then it could be the difference between saving an ally, saving an enemy, killing an ally, or killing an enemy. Heck, its funny when Soraka plants a E when an Alistar is going to charge in with his headbutt so that he does not get the knock up but still gets the knock back. > > There is many examples of this of just how harshly even other supports think of eachother. They never have a clue what goes into playing the champion.... they just know "thats what they do". > _____ > > With Yuumi, She will have her own characteristics. The bad ones will ALWAYS be attached. The good ones will probably be firing their Q, going onto an ally, moving the Q into the enemy because then it will wrap around (just an assumption of something she might be able to do). They will be popping on and off of the ally to do the autos, they will be juking shots by going onto the ally. Bad ones will have a Maokai going wiyh Twisted Advance (his targetted root where he follows the champion) and bring him right onto the ally ADC. Getting the ADC instantly stuck with a Maokai right on them. Could be good or bad depending on the situation. > > There is a lot of skill expression for many champions that can be exploited and used against them if you do it right. You can even flash with a Thresh following you with the hook. You can flash after Leona gets you with her E but before she pulls herself to you. After that, you can root/stun/bind her under a tower or something. 1) Why are you grilling me over what I know or don't know as a support player after I told you I have 3 million mastery between two support champs? Stay on topic. 2) You're focusing on that skill expression bit, but the main point of what's being discussed here (one of them, anyway) is that, where Yuumi's strengths and weaknesses are clearly defined and fit certain aspects of the game on a broader scale, other support picks are very generalized in their contributions and can do a good deal of what Yuumi does and then some without having to worry as much about mechanical execution. Look at your Ali vs. Soraka example. Soraka has E up and Ali has his combo up. If Alistar wants to win here, he has to land his combo at the right time so he won't get hit by Soraka's E. Problem is that there IS NO right time without outside interference. The second Alistar begins his dash is the second Soraka puts down E on top of her carry, and then he can't do his combo and the interaction ends with his engage on cd. All she did was press E on top of her carry. There's no nuance to it outside of timing her E to when Alistar throws his W. Likewise, Alistar winning lane against an opponent like Sona is basically an exercise of him walking up to the Sona. Likewise, Sona winning lane against someone like Janna or Karma is an exercise of pressing Q within 850 range of them until their health eventually depletes. You can "know the match-up" and what-not. The problem is that these interactions between champions are largely one-note. I don't have issue with good or bad match-ups, but these interactions are too shallow.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: If you want some users of the boards to be restrained from posting in your mighty posts then write a blog yourself or something, but this doesn't belong to you, it belongs to riot
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yhHpUFn,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T21:45:29.471+0000) > > If you want some users of the boards to be restrained from posting in your mighty posts then write a blog yourself or something, but this doesn't belong to you, it belongs to riot My issue with you is that there's no point in communicating with you. Even in cases where you're blatantly wrong, you just tell everyone to piss off, anyway. I'm absolutely out of patience with you and I'd LOVE for you to stop jumping in my threads/conversations. You haven't seen me comment in YOUR threads, right? Do the same in kind.
Maisanai (NA)
: look at their match history, lots of name and sona. Not that some of these points aren't questionable lol
> [{quoted}](name=Maisanai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yhHpUFn,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-05-02T21:20:01.774+0000) > > look at their match history, lots of name and sona. Not that some of these points aren't questionable lol What's questionable?
: This is a really good point that I've not considered before. If I could build more off of what you're saying, most abilities in this game require a skill test of some kind, usually it's a skill shot with some kind of differentiating behavior, or its ground targeted, etc. Outside of timing, there is generslly no skill test for shielding or healing an ally. The outlier for this is Rakan's heal - not only does he have to land a moderate speed skill shot, he then had a limited window to reach the ally he wants to heal. Taric's heal is also gated behind his Bravado passive, as well as his Bastion thether. When you look at free healing and shielding enchanters in light of that, its kind of highlights the difference between a more modern enchanter kit and a dated enchanter kit. I've been hollering for a long time that we need more high skill cap enchanters, and I often get downvoted for it. (No idea why proposing to add more mastery expression is a bad idea) But truthfully, when you look at the mechanical skill required to bull off a Gangplank Triple barrel, or playing Akali's shroud and passive to her maximim benefit, there really is no equivalent in the Enchanter role. Its a dated class that needs some updates badly - becausr I really dont think the community would appreciate Janna ever becoming meta again (as she is now).
> [{quoted}](name=ixi Josh Sand,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yhHpUFn,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-02T21:13:07.711+0000) > > This is a really good point that I've not considered before. If I could build more off of what you're saying, most abilities in this game require a skill test of some kind, usually it's a skill shot with some kind of differentiating behavior, or its ground targeted, etc. > > Outside of timing, there is generslly no skill test for shielding or healing an ally. The outlier for this is Rakan's heal - not only does he have to land a moderate speed skill shot, he then had a limited window to reach the ally he wants to heal. > > Taric's heal is also gated behind his Bravado passive, as well as his Bastion thether. > > When you look at free healing and shielding enchanters in light of that, its kind of highlights the difference between a more modern enchanter kit and a dated enchanter kit. > > I've been hollering for a long time that we need more high skill cap enchanters, and I often get downvoted for it. (No idea why proposing to add more mastery expression is a bad idea) > > But truthfully, when you look at the mechanical skill required to bull off a Gangplank Triple barrel, or playing Akali's shroud and passive to her maximim benefit, there really is no equivalent in the Enchanter role. Its a dated class that needs some updates badly - becausr I really dont think the community would appreciate Janna ever becoming meta again (as she is now). It isn't just a need for higher skill cap picks. Actually, it's more a need to do something about the skill floor. Not just enchanters, but also some problem picks like Alistar and Leona. Countering squishy targets? Fine. Countering ALL OF THEM by virtue of the exact same maneuver, which is targeted, hardly has room to be out-maneuvered unless you have a dash (which enchanters largely don't have), and goes through minions? This has needed some form of dealing with for a long time now.
: I am going to have to ask you a question before giving any type of answer here. How much do you actually play support? PLAY it. Not be ADC and "watch" it. Not be a mid laner pseudo support where what you are actually doing is blowing up the enemy and carrying the game yourself.
> [{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yhHpUFn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-02T21:11:31.763+0000) > > I am going to have to ask you a question before giving any type of answer here. > > How much do you actually play support? PLAY it. Not be ADC and "watch" it. Not be a mid laner pseudo support where what you are actually doing is blowing up the enemy and carrying the game yourself. 1 million Nami mastery 2 million + Sona mastery D3 in seasons 7 and 8. D5 season 6. Largely solo
: Ez literally has both an item and keystone dedicated to him.
Rioter Comments
: Conqueror is a mistake but Riot would rather have tanks disappear than remove conqueror
> [{quoted}](name=Hayaishi2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pJpEeq8v,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2019-05-02T18:51:40.019+0000) > > Conqueror is a mistake but Riot would rather have tanks disappear than remove conqueror It isn't a "Riot" problem. It's a player base problem. Riot was looking for less volatile ways to push fighters into the game until that Hashinshin moment blew up. I'm not blaming *Riot* in this post. They'll always make decisions largely based on the woes of some portion of the community. I'm simply saying Conqueror needs to be removed from the game and no one should EVER take Hashinshin seriously again.
Stwessed (NA)
: Ok 3 seconds off q is nice but ask anyone about Riven that isn't ranting and they will say she is WAY too safe in lane and layer in fights because dd and shield. This is a hit to lane phase so you can trade vs her and die in fights. Her damage is not the problem it's how mind numbingly easy it is to just survive this is coming from someone who has 600k Riven and quit when Riven meta swapped from lethality/pen to this bs I'm a tank but full damage Riven
> [{quoted}](name=Stwessed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5J1ZBfOx,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T12:55:08.830+0000) > > Ok 3 seconds off q is nice but ask anyone about Riven that isn't ranting and they will say she is WAY too safe in lane and layer in fights because dd and shield. This is a hit to lane phase so you can trade vs her and die in fights. Her damage is not the problem it's how mind numbingly easy it is to just survive this is coming from someone who has 600k Riven and quit when Riven meta swapped from lethality/pen to this bs I'm a tank but full damage Riven You trade her shield + dash and in turn get her *entire damage rotation up to 3 seconds faster.* It's really not that much of a nerf. If she starts winning she can fight and make plays *more often and for longer.* Where's the downside to that? She needs a power down, not a power shift.
GigglesO (NA)
: What you posted and what I posted are two sides of the same coin. Yes damage is too high because there are less tanks, yes damage would come down with more tanks in the game, and yes having more cc would be more significant if damage was lower (because there are more tanks played). It all stems from riot taking on the idea that tanks should just be cc whores instead of damage soaks. Remember when there was the argument that Mundo was a tank? I sure do. Was he a tank, maybe that’s for another discussion... now though he is just another bruiser, and every damage buff they push on him moves further into the bruiser category. You can’t even really make an argument that he’s a tank.
> [{quoted}](name=GigglesO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pJpEeq8v,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-02T15:35:32.050+0000) > > What you posted and what I posted are two sides of the same coin. Yes damage is too high because there are less tanks, yes damage would come down with more tanks in the game, and yes having more cc would be more significant if damage was lower (because there are more tanks played). > > It all stems from riot taking on the idea that tanks should just be cc whores instead of damage soaks. The only difference between us is that I'm saying that tanks absorbing damage isn't the issue more than it's anti-tank tools being **all over the rift** at this point. It's way too much to actually take, and some of them are available as early as game start. The value of tank items was decreased so they'd stop being poached by assassins. I agree with that move, but what I don't agree with is tossing out anti-tank measures like candy because Hashinshin told Riot to collectively die. So I'm more saying that "measures against tanks are too strong" rather than "damage in general is too high". A lot of the issue we see comes from life steal as well as damage.
LTK KoRo (EUW)
: conqueror circlejerking continues, while the real problem is that tanks can have 20 cs after 10 minutes because they're pinatas for klepto ranged tops
> [{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pJpEeq8v,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-05-02T09:04:16.042+0000) > > conqueror circlejerking continues, while the real problem is that tanks can have 20 cs after 10 minutes because they're pinatas for klepto ranged tops Sure but that's a different, less occurring problem.
Stwessed (NA)
: Wow 1 second off of Q and 4 seconds onto E makes a power swap and not a nerf? Do you people actually play the game? This is why riot doesn't listen to the boards rofl
> [{quoted}](name=Stwessed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5J1ZBfOx,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-02T01:18:32.950+0000) > > Wow 1 second off of Q and 4 seconds onto E makes a power swap and not a nerf? Do you people actually play the game? This is why riot doesn't listen to the boards rofl It's not just one second off Q. It scales to 3 seconds off. Also, this buff is a direct buff to her damage over time in drawn out fights, with a minor decrease to her ability to stun people in that process. She MIGHT be a bit weaker, but hardly so, and her advantage state will be even worse with her Q being up more while having no resource bar to worry about.
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chipndip1

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