Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JYTHx1O3,comment-id=002400000000,timestamp=2017-08-19T06:42:16.422+0000) > > > How can you tell? maybe through experience? LUL, ask a single high elo player if nasus or any immobile melee is great there i'm waiting
So you're pulling that claim *out of thin air?* Asking someone in higher tiers of Diamond how Nasus is will *most likely* be similar to how people view him **throughout** Diamond. I'm not trying to make this a huge thing, but I'm just saying that this thing of "In HIGH Diamond it's like *this*" just doesn't hold water logically. You can say "In Diamond/Master" if that's more along the lines of what you're trying to say. Makes more sense than just "In high Diamond". And I'm NOT gonna try find someone that thinks Nasus is strong in high elo because you and I both know I'd actually have to FIND someone to accomplish that. Like baiting someone into trying to find Spongebob's pineapple in the ocean...
: we should make garen a super-mobile dashy jumpy flashy assassin instead that'd fix him up real nice
He doesn't have to be, but do you think you can make a competitive kit with his CURRENT kit? His ENTIRE KIT has been mini-reworked by much so that his W and passive has been mini-reworked twice. *It's just simply not gonna work.*
: Garen can remain Garbage and still have some place in yolo queue if his spin had a 1200 range diameter.
This is like saying that because Ezreal is weak, his E should be recastable at 0 cost up to 3 times. No, random ass buffs out of the blue aren't the way to solve balance issues.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ihzy1TiE,comment-id=00010000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-08-18T22:31:58.504+0000) > > No juggernaut has a *strong* late game, really. It's as strong as the enemy are allowing to let it be via bad comps or positing mistakes, anyway. > > Garen's early may be whatever, but he gets kited late game just like any other jug. Not necessarily some late game "powerhouse". this is why the recent change to his w is a step in the right direction though. giving him a chance to outplay enemy cc and kiting. it still doesnt help much against hyper safe, mobile, kitey marksmen but in most other situations the mini parry is defnitiely helpful. id honestly sacrifice the extra damage reduction during the parry window for full cc immunity. would be nice to be able to outplay abilities like vaynes condemn or tristanas ult, and other champions knockups with proper timing.
Against a strong team comp, the enemy will layer and re-layer cc on him until his tenacity and slow cleanse don't matter anymore. Like, I'm sorry, but I'm fully convinced that there's NOTHING that can be done to salvage this kit. It needs a complete game play update. It's archaic.
: wait what the fuck? i said that he got 47% win rate WHILE TAKING in account low diamond if we ignored low diamond it would be worse because he would end up more unplayable with people having a brain it's easier to play immobile melees in low diamond than in high diamond
You said that in high Diamond, Nasus's win rate is far worse than 47%. How can you tell? You have nothing that confirms this information as either correct or incorrect, so how can you make that claim?
: Nasus just proved that you need to completly break immobile bruisers to make them work
> [{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JYTHx1O3,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-08-18T13:47:12.688+0000) > > He's got 47% win rate in diamond+ **despite having his Q cd reduced by half under ult, and E shreding 35% of the enemy team armor**, **and that is while counting low diamond, because if you go above it's even worse** Alright, this claim is starting to bug me. You throw this around a lot, but the last time I truly challenged it, you said "Challenger tier has such a low population. I'm not talking about challenger." Meanwhile, at the same time, we *both* know that stat sites don't divide data by *divisions* rather than *tiers,* so what the hell are you citing when you make a claim like "X stats are this in Diamond 5 or 4, but that in Diamond 2 or 1"? Outside of that: Maybe if people wouldn't bitch about large scale reworks so much, I'd have sympathy for them when they're stuck with a highly unviable champion.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ihzy1TiE,comment-id=000100000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-08-18T17:42:49.120+0000) > > I mean, don't just *lie* to the people, now... not sure what you mean. the juggernaut update massively nerfed his early game. like the silence duration on his q by 1 second, which is where most of his early game strength came from. his spin also deals less damage than auto attacking until lvl 4 and doesnt get as strong as it used to be until lvl 7. they did that so they could give him a better latergame scaling. garen isnt a lane bully anymore. he loses most matchups early. i dont think he scales as well into lategame as he should. but he scales better than he used to.
No juggernaut has a *strong* late game, really. It's as strong as the enemy are allowing to let it be via bad comps or positing mistakes, anyway. Garen's early may be whatever, but he gets kited late game just like any other jug. Not necessarily some late game "powerhouse".
: How to fix Garen.
Just one more example of people that clearly know Garen needs change, but aren't willing to commit enough to get him the changes he needs. Garen will *remain* garbage.
: > [{quoted}](name=WorryWolfy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ihzy1TiE,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-17T22:13:27.033+0000) > > Garen is not a lane bully. he loses every matchup. The people who pick garen enjoy this one dimensional kit or the ease of playing it i wouldnt say he loses every matchup. but the time when he was a lane bully is long past. these days, garen is weak early game and scales into lategame.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ihzy1TiE,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-17T22:16:59.483+0000) > > these days, garen is weak early game and scales into lategame. I mean, don't just *lie* to the people, now...
: if they want to do something else with garens kit, they could build on his crit scaling. thats also something very unique and other juggs simply dont have. it would also make him scale really well into lategame. like, they could just straight up add critical strike chance to his w stacks to make him end up at 30% crit.
Just because you have late game stats doesn't mean you have late game application. His late game would still suck.
: > [{quoted}](name=PopcornBunni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ihzy1TiE,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-08-18T16:34:24.165+0000) > > I don't think buffs would fix Garen > > popularity 2.2%. means hes mostly played by his mains at that mmr. its not uncommon for a champion to have around 55% winrate for experienced players.
Isn't the experienced average usually 57%?
Ralanr (NA)
: She kept engaging and Amumu followed while Draven was too far behind. I had to try and peel both Garen and Rengar off of him alone.
That isn't a team comp problem. That's a "Poppy doesn't know wtf she's doing" problem. You and Amumu should have been the engage. Poppy's the one that should have saved ult and E for disengaging off of Draven.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A4wRxvRz,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-08-16T16:15:07.783+0000) > > She hasn't even been good for one month... What does that have to do anything with Tristana being good right now?
It's phrased as if she has been and will continue to be super strong for a long time. She's hardly been a top spot adc for a few weeks, and we all know that adc balance is just 3 - 4 marksmen cycled around over and over.
: It refreshes to its original value, but does not double.
Ralanr (NA)
: I had a game with Poppy top, Amumu jungle, and me as Naut support. We couldn't keep our Draven alive. I had to quit ranked for a bit after that just to recover from how pissed off I was.
That doesn't even add up. Poppy should have let you and Amumu engage while she just body-blocked for Draven.
: Message to all players no matter the elo:
I mean, champs like Thresh and Sona are very generalist picks. You can't really blame someone for picking a generalist support in a blind situation. At least she helps your team fight strength. Xayah also has an aoe snare. Short, but there. Really, you should be mad at Nidalee and Vlad. Especially Nidalee. Front liners occupy top and jg for the most part. Nid saw your Morde...then picked Nid. Blame her.
: While they do come with a good number of defensive items, their base defensive stats are usually garbage. And (usually) when shielding yourself, you lose on the ability to shield an ally (the primary exceptions being Sona and Karma, the former of which has her shield balanced around shielding 5, and the latter of which can only shield multiple people with her R. Lux, the only other exception I can think of, gets half the shielding her allies do, as it doesn't double hers on return). They're giving up the ability to shield their ally to keep themselves alive. This is something any assassin should exploit by turning around and popping the now-vulnerable ADC.
Lux's shield doubles on herself on return...
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cBAAyWp8,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-08-16T06:33:02.329+0000) > > Other support simply can't keep up with the gold gen from coin. Once we nerf Ardent, the only thing left to nerf WILL BE COIN. Not sure why we're playing dumb as a community. Coin will generate more gold only if you manage to go to lategame. Games are over in 15-25 minutes. When I play supp with Talisman, it generates like 1500-2000 gold before the game is over. The items costs 2200 gold.
How much gold do you *honestly* think the other items get in one match? If it's over 1k, you're...actually wrong. Also, games are over at about 30 minutes these days. You can stop the pre-season bullshit now.
: feel free to abuse tristana until next season
She hasn't even been good for one month...
: After 5 Years I uninstalled League of Legends
Really...honestly, you're just bad and you're venting. You're getting mad that a juggernaut champ like Darius deals damage. You're mad that Yasuo, *a champion designed to scale much faster than a marksman will,* beat you when you were playing Jinx, *a heavily nerfed late-game marksman,* WHILE YOU DIDN'T EVEN FINISH ONE ITEM YET. You're mad about class reworks for some reason when Riot said they're discontinuing class reworks. You're mad about Caitlyn when she's been nerfed to the point of being the weakest marksman in solo queue, even including Ezreal. You're mad about the LCS, but you're Silver, so Riot wouldn't balance around your skill level, anyway. Honestly, you should uninstall. This is a case of someone being bad and resorting to baby-raging. Nothing anyone will tell you will convince you to "git gud", so "gitten gone" is the next best thing.
: Shockingly a lot of players think so. My ex best friend has never been higher than gold 4 or something. Me getting diamond last season was "luck" and "playing a ton". Me getting D4 in 50 games with 70% winrate from plat 5 this start of season didn't convince him of my skill nor peaking at D2 the last couple weeks but because last season in team ranked we played against a bunch of full diamond teams and winning somehow made him believe he is diamond level yet sitting in b1 currently not realising a team play is entirely different from soloQ. Another one was like "blabla if i played 1k games a season as well i would be diamond too, it's all about the grind". I look up his profile he has nearly 2k normal games this season but "he doesn't have much time for ranked" when he literally plays twice as much as i do and not realising it only took me 50 games to get to my old elo.
I mean, it *honestly sucks,* but the best we can do is to try not to punch down and be good folk as long as we can. Still, though, doesn't change the fact that the best way to gain real improvement in LoL is through ranked play. Not sure why people deny that.
: On your opinion; does Coin line's gold gain need to be nerfed, or the other two need to be buffed?
Other support simply can't keep up with the gold gen from coin. Once we nerf Ardent, the only thing left to nerf WILL BE COIN. Not sure why we're playing dumb as a community.
: i submit , the meta won
Assassins HAVE ALWAYS BEEN OUTSCALED. Wtf are people on?
: Ardent Censer needs nerfed so hard
You don't get the item before lane ends anyway...
: you are right that ancient coin path is really strong right now. what they have to do regarding those however is buffing the other 2 gold gen items to allow supports to actually buy items however, that {{item:3504}} still needs nerfs due to how much it buffs adcs
That's fine, but if they don't address coin, it won't accomplish much.
: i think ardent has more to do with janna being good along with things like lulu not being popular rn
Ardent was this way back before Janna's win rate shot up like a rocket. Wanna know what WASN'T? COIN. Before the coin buffs, Janna was using STE, and Thresh was the strongest support on the rift. After the buffs, Janna shoots up, Sona shoots up, and Soraka shoots up. It isn't a coincidence.
: Wasn't Tristana considred trash tier like a week ago?
Nerfing everyone on top of her happened.
bàn (NA)
: They should just get rid of gold items completely and just get rid of the support role. They were a problem back when everyone was building HoG and Philostone and now I've seen Nasus players take Coin in the top lane. So stupid.
It wasn't a problem until coin got overbuffed. Removing them isn't exactly the "prime solution" here.
: this isn't an adc op thread, and this isn't an adc op post too i'm claiming that the "kog is not op, he's just strong cause of censer" is totally wrong because if it was the case other carries like jinx who synergies well with it would see plays but they don't kog is broken alone and needs nerfs
Ah, I get it. I think Riot doesn't know what to do with Kog as a whole, though.
Mig89 (NA)
: Youre claiming what a real problem is and hes pointing out a real problem. Janna is in no way broken imo. Shes a well designed champ with strengths and weaknesses.
Aight, I wouldn't say that. Janna's way too safe and simple, but she's been way more manageable in the past up until now, sure. Her design is shit, but it's an issue because she gains so much for so little effort from coin.
: {{champion:96}} sure XD, every single adc are as overpowered as kog right now when combined with censer why don't i see jinx or ashe or varus played in every single high elo games why don't i see jinx building bruiser and shreding everyone in 1.5 sec Kog is what we in high elo focus on, we're going to permaban this shit until it gets fixed playing against a no mechanics 710 range juggernaut is not fun nor balanced
I mean...alright? This isn't an adc op thread anyway...but sure?
Rioter Comments
: It's feasible. And, depending on the role, matchups, and situations, and given a crash-course on how things shift from bottom to top tier, I could theoretically hold my own, and at least not feed my ass off. I most definitely wouldn't be carrying, but I could at least not do too horribly. Then again, I have around 1.5k-2k games total. And that's probably a stretch, so I don't have the experience. I'm not talking about some relatively casual player like me. I'm talking about someone who does play a lot of games, and has been.
Doesn't matter. I played THOUSANDS of games before I even got myself to a point where I could be considered a Diamond level player. Just going through the shit of learning the game, discovering a real main champ, and actually's a lot, and the norms environment *does not* fuel that drive. Period. You don't have an idea of how higher elo games are actually like. The mentality behind it. People aren't playing goofy shit. People are more likely to go for optimal punishes for mistakes while mitigating chances for slip ups, both in lane and during team fights. Normal games don't consistently provide that type of environment to practice and learn in. Like, I'm not trying to be rude, but look at you: You're Bronze 2, significantly under the bar of "average level player" (79th percentile on the ladder), claiming you could keep up in *Diamond level games,* about the top ONE PERCENT of the ladder. Really think this claim through. It's completely ignorant. The first step to improving is understanding you need improving. Normal games *will not* get you there in the long run. You could improve, given you're bronze, but you aren't gonna be some super-skilled high Plat player through just spamming norms.
: coin also gives no in lane combat stats, meaning you sacrifice any early game power for extra gold income.
But the people coin is designated for don't give a shit about lane combat stats. To boot, supports rely on base stats more than scaling stats, save Rakan. Thus, no one gives a shit about lane combat stats, period. Even STE relies on the on-hit effect of the item more than the AP on the item.
: Why is Janna popular? Because Lulu and Karma got nerfed. >.<
Well...yes and no. Karma has nothing to do with it. Lulu got nerfed, then coin got MASSIVELY BUFFED. People are pin-pointed at Censer, but I *guarantee* you that this won't change until coin's nerfed.
: Normals has its own MMR/ELO. It follows the same rules as ranked's, so as you play normal matches, you'll be moved up higher, and will face opponents with higher MMR. The only time you'll start to run out of people above you in it is around Diamond level. And you can still learn knowledge from other sources than play.
So do you think that you'd be able to do "just fine" in a few high elo games? Do you think ANYONE that "only played norms" would do well in a set of high elo games? Like mid/high Diamond tier games? The point is that, objectively speaking, you could make the claim that it's possible to learn anything in norms that you could from ranked. The point is ALSO that, when faced with simply won't. Match-making is different in norms. The mentality around norms is different, too. It's the same map, but there's so many key differences that it's simply NOT the same experience. No amount of arguing changes that.
Kloqdq (NA)
: I have a friend who is unranked but has been playing for at least 3 years. He is about Gold mmr if he played ranked but he doesn't.
nm1010 (NA)
: I have never met an unranked player who didn't overvalue their skill level due to who they played against in normals. And they normally like to hide behind that veil of "I'm unranked, but I play against golds and the occasional plat so I'm like high gold". No you aren't, you don't get to play against a couple mid elo players and act like you know anything about competitive play. That is like someone going to a sport camp and scrimming against pro players for a week then saying they are basically a college level player since they played against pros, it is actually a ridiculous comparison.
Exactly this. I play with my Silver friends quite often. One says he plays Janna like a Plat level player when he's never climbed higher than low Gold, the other says he doesn't play ranked "but he's still improving" when he's constantly feeding and STILL doesn't know how to trade in lane. People that don't ranked just don't get it. It's elitist as hell and there's no nice way to put it, but them's the breaks. Not my problem though since I always play ranked in any game that has it.
: See alot of people complaining about Unranked players in their ranked games
Unranked kinda IS the bucket category for unskilled players, though. As is Bronze/Silver. Think on it: Even up to Gold...if not even Plat, the community trashes players for being "unskilled". Hell, even in DIAMOND you can get it for whatever stupid reason (I'm D2 - D1 and you're D4 - D3, so I'm skilled and you're trash). With that said, how is someone that's unranked, that doesn't even play this game in even a half-competitive setting for any real length of time, gonna claim that he isn't unskilled?
: Everyone else got nerfed.
This. This is has been bot lane since forever now.
Yenn (NA)
: ADCs are pushing APCs out of mid, why isn't this being fixed?
Chiken138 (EUW)
: just ban her along with lulu and Janna. Stupid Ardent Censor is also destroying the game
You guys are gonna see it next patch: They're gonna nerf Censer, and nothing will change because coin is still generating more gold than a money laundering scheme.
: I think Riot forgot that AP is suposed to be a cheaper stat than AD
Yeah, right now there's a lot of 3200 gold ap items. A full mage build is actually MORE expensive than a full marksman build, especially when you buy Deathcap. I find that peculiar...
: Sona's newfound popularity doesn't come from Coin, it comes from Ardent and how they buffed it like 6 times in a row Coin 100% is bullshit in it's current state though, there is no reason why the least riskiest way of getting gold from the gold items generates the most gold
Even with Ardent, Sona had a 52% win rate before coin. She's at 53% now, but on a steadily growing play rate. We've left the point where just mains were playing her. People are steadily starting to abuse coin on Sona.
Jbels (NA)
: It's honestly a matter of Supports giving too much to carries. They need that gold gen, but the itemization for supports is so fucked (Looking at you, Ardent).Supports need to give defensive buffs, like heals, shields, or movement speed boosts / defensive stat raises. When you have champions like Sona or Janna (especially Janna) who give metric ass tons of shielding/healing, while granting stat checking to their ADC, it's stupid. Like I said, ESPECIALLY Janna, who gives her ADC so much free damage with Ardent it's stupid
If all the viable item picks are defensive picks, we'll just end up where we were when everyone spammed Redemption/Locket, just in another form. Ardent is out of hand because it got overtuned back when Redemption/Locket were the main culprits. Ardent was overbuffed to catch up to something that was blatantly op, but THAT got nerfed, so now Ardent's just op by itself. Riot's going to remove the scaling power it was given from before, but the base power will be increased in comparison to what it was before the scaling power was introduced. The REAL issue is that any support that takes coin gets gold way faster, in order to scale way sooner, than any support that *doesn't* take coin. We can't just blindly blame Censer for everything. Coin is the primary catalyst of our issues, especially when the other two items don't give even half as much gold as coin does.
MysterQ (NA)
: You are right not many people use it. But what other AS items are there. AS and On Hit in general just have nothing. Nashor, Guinsoo, .... Bork...... Wit's End Oh yea, Bloodrazor smite specific. Otherwise, the only way you are getting AS is a CRIT item or Trinity. If you took Nashor out completely, Kayle would not be the hypercarry she is. Granted maybe that is fine move her in a different role. But there is no other way for champs who want to be AAmages or on hit have anything.
We need a decent amount of AA mages to cater to before we have to care about AA mages...
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7yRZBEQW,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2017-08-14T20:55:40.646+0000) > > You out-sustained the damage...because you were FULLY INVINCIBLE, given you had invincibility from your tank support. > i outsustained the damage? j4 was stunned LUL and he built cinderhulk, he had 0 damage at all i still had heal i wouldn't have died from anything > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7yRZBEQW,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2017-08-14T20:55:40.646+0000) > > And when tanks are strong, guess who else is strong? Late game hyper carries. Kog, Trist, Jinx if she wasn&#x27;t still nerfed into a crater, Vayne when Riot finally gets her out of that crater she was nerfed into, Twitch...champs like that. > we had 0 tanks in our team, taric was squishy af cuz he rushed ardent we had fiddle and ryze, only "tanky" champ was renekton with black cleaver and stoneplate, he wasn't even here they had Sion and j4, and they still lost cuz kog is bullshit > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7yRZBEQW,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2017-08-14T20:55:40.646+0000) > > But yeah, this vid wasn&#x27;t a good vid to get your point across. and this one aint? xd? yeah kog is balanced 710 range juggernaut tank is balanced
> [{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7yRZBEQW,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-14T21:10:03.669+0000) > > i outsustained the damage? j4 was stunned LUL and he built cinderhulk, he had 0 damage at all > i still had heal > i wouldn&#x27;t have died from anything Well, let's put it like this: - It was 33 minutes into the late game. Assuming you're good at the game, which despite venomous hissing and rattling from days past, I'd wholeheartedly believe, you were well into your build as a hyper-carry pick. - J4 jumped straight into a hyper carry by himself + didn't build much damage (your build has some hp and some mr, no armor, but you even said he went Cinderhulk) + missed his knock up. Your team being there was insurance, but just by virtue of you performing well up to that point and the disservice he did himself with his build/missed skill shot, he was pretty dead the moment he hit R. With this all in place...honestly, Kog's kinda always been like this ever since I could remember. When Kog's on items he can wrap a game up just by not dying for a few minutes. At 33 minutes, without being behind, that's Kog's time to start pulling ahead. I'm not surprised by it. > we had 0 tanks in our team, taric was squishy af cuz he rushed ardent Fair. > we had fiddle and ryze, only &quot;tanky&quot; champ was renekton with black cleaver and stoneplate, he wasn&#x27;t even here Fair. > they had Sion and j4, and they still lost Fair, but it's also fair to note that J4 built for defenses rather than for diving (not sure why), and Kog is designed to eventually eat away people who do just that. You could say that you counter-picked the current meta with the Kog pick. > cuz kog is bullshit I mean, at 33 minutes, any hyper-carry that didn't feed except Jinx is gonna be pretty bullshit. (RiP my home girl before the current home girl.) > yeah kog is balanced > > 710 range juggernaut tank is balanced It's more him abusing Runaan's, Censer, his own passive, and Ruined King with Phantom Hit than it is "710 ranged Juggernaut". Phantom Hit procs on RK gives him double the life steal from the passive bonus damage on every other hit, and he's also getting protection from Lulu. But yeah, Kog's been a problem for a while now when it comes to his overall balance. He's either too bleh or too ridiculous. Been that way for a long time, and that's why they tried changing him a year ago...much good that did.
Rioter Comments
Rexxiee (NA)
: Caitlyn is still sub 44% wr in plat + and diamond +
Really? I thought Ezreal was worse? Edit: Nvm holy shit she got fucked worse than she does in her hentai pics. DAYUM...
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