: rengar isnt even that good anymore after they made dark harvest useless and practically nerfed duskblades proc damage to the point of a supports auto attack
> [{quoted}](name=GodlyBane,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Am0xsi3A,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-14T22:25:55.404+0000) > > rengar isnt even that good anymore after they made dark harvest useless and practically nerfed duskblades proc damage to the point of a supports auto attack Not the exact point of this thread.
: So his kit: https://youtu.be/EVrCuWowa68?t=54
> [{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Am0xsi3A,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-12-14T21:53:10.137+0000) > > So his kit: > > https://youtu.be/EVrCuWowa68?t=54 That but at Mach 5
: https://youtu.be/BVl4pexAJGI Is Neeko not good enough?{{champion:518}}
> [{quoted}](name=ShadowBlades99,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Am0xsi3A,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-12-15T06:03:09.281+0000) > > https://youtu.be/BVl4pexAJGI > Is Neeko not good enough?{{champion:518}} Give her a dash.
: Shadow Assasin Kayn technically does (and is relatively recent). He just has more telegraph telling you he's on the way. And I suppose he's not universally liked/picked. But he has rather "impressive" burst from WQ that happens rather fast.
> [{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Am0xsi3A,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-14T21:28:32.227+0000) > > Shadow Assasin Kayn technically does (and is relatively recent). He just has more telegraph telling you he's on the way. And I suppose he's not universally liked/picked. But he has rather "impressive" burst from WQ that happens rather fast. Nah, they gotta REALLY lay down the "oh...I died" feel.
Rioter Comments
: The biggest problem with League.
> [{quoted}](name=PhearBunny,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b5nMQAAn,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-12T21:52:06.652+0000) > > Either you play a high impact, Godtier champion. > Or, you have very little to no impact on whether you win or not. Regardless of how well you do. > > **A 0-5 Camille is more impactful than a 5-0 Nocturne. ** I hate these boards.
: Unless you're melee. Then you just wonder why she and Xerath have point blank stun mechanics.
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Malpercio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gR3HpOi2,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-12T19:31:04.507+0000) > > Unless you're melee. Then you just wonder why she and Xerath have point blank stun mechanics. Simple 1) They don't 2) Melee champs ACTUALLY have point-blank stun mechanics and no one's complaining
: since when does kled count as a good teamfighter? he's an early game lane bully that does best in 1v1's, and not teamfights.
> [{quoted}](name=Ćount Kledula,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lw2BbaYc,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-12T19:01:28.856+0000) > > since when does kled count as a good teamfighter? he's an early game lane bully that does best in 1v1's, and not teamfights. He can literally run his whole team into a team fight from half way across the map if he so chose, and he can just respawn half his hp bar for fight sustain if he plays it right. To the very least, it beats the team fight of a lot of fighter-class champions we have now.
Seen (NA)
: Name a champion who you think is a huge ball of stats.
{{champion:37}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:11}}
VortexV9 (EUNE)
: {{champion:142}} Hit E and BYE BYE
But she has plenty of ways to be played around and counter-built. Her E is also (usually) easily avoided.
crazÿ (EUW)
: i have really good idea for assassin but no one like it cause its good for pyke lmao
They've already been trying to slow down assassin burst patterns so we have less Rengar/LB cases where you just outright die with no time to even do anything about it.
Poske (EUNE)
: Juggernauts are a fail of class
Trox and Urgot just didn't exist I guess...
Rioter Comments
VanaQuish (EUNE)
: > Yes. I've been a juggernaut main since around early S5 right before the juggernaut patch hit. Before that I played Sejuani, Bard/Taric(pre-rework, I despise him now I know its irrelevant with our discussion and whatnot but, you despise reworked taric? o_0 > Mate, you want to talk about reliability? I play Illaoi. Nobody is less reliable than me unless the enemy's got 3 tanks, lol. You can't sway me on this argument. Since you play illaoi you know fully well how dependant she is for her teammates to cc your enemies. Mages such as vel, xerath, ziggs, karthus, neeko and veigar are dependant on their teammates to help them land their spells (or rather these are the ones that are more dependant than lets say cass and malz) since their primary dmg spells can be avoided. And before you argue about neeko being overloaded, (in which i do agree on her ulti and maybe her w having no cost) neeko needs imo some powershifts. Her q should deal less dmg when it land and more when it detonates afterwards. Her ulti shouldnt slow and should have more cd early on and have less late game (since her ulti does force her to go into the meat of the things). > But she's not irrelevant. But neither are juggernauts. No juggernaut becomes irrelevant even late game. Sure they might **less effective** but they still remain a valid threat. I dare you to leave a mage alone to face a garen. Or send an adc to stop a nasus that splitpushes. > A mage can always make a game-winning change and they can always do it proactively Everyone can make that. Doing an unexpected flash is certain to, well, catch the enemy off-guard. Sure you might die but your death could potentially have benefits. Like drawing the whole attention to yourself while your zed kills the enemy carry. You can argue that mages can do it better. Which you are right since in order to make a change you have to either have the dmg or cc to do it. Mages get to have both in cost of their surivability and again to a certain degree, reliability. Different classes and roles. > Assassins fall off very hard and they have to look for a golden opportunity to catch someone with their pants down Used to. Nowadays they are doing fine. Kassadin, fizz, dianna noc (if you count them as assassins), kha, evelynn, shaco and kayn have average to good late game win rates (opgg). > most mages just need to live long enough to do their rotation and they can be content Most adcs just need to live long enough to do their dps and they can be content. Most tanks just need to live long enough to do their rotation and they can be content. > because they bring the right mix of range, damage, CC and AOE that makes them as equally high-value as a marksman on different terms. Yep true. However this "jack of all trades"-like characteristic has its downsides (that you always refuse to accept). Their range makes them unreliable. Their dmg and thus their aoe is bound by their mana pool and cooldowns. Their cc is not as good as that of the enchanters and tanks.
Alright, I'm truth-bombing this and breaking this up. Here's the thing: Moody P is wrong in constantly hate-mongering skill shots. Unreliability is a valid argument, but that depends on the argument being made...like any other argument. In this case, yes, a major drawback to mages is unreliability, and that can't just be ignored. Moody P is right when he insinuates that mage mains *usually* whine way too much when mages themselves aren't weak enough to warrant that whining. Mage players constantly cry about having weak itemization, but their defensive itemization is some of the strongest shit in the game between a spell shield with 60 MR, straight up stasis with 45 armor (which can be made cheaper with a rune), and quite a few items that give both damage and HP. On top of this, mages can build enough pen in short amounts of time to basically deal true damage to squishy targets between their shoes and a book. The best part is that mage itemization is usually one-size-fits-all. One type of AD champ will want completely different stuff in comparison to another type of AD champ, and the difference is usually staggering. Any mage can use Zhonya/Banshee, though. A lot of mages can make use of RoA if they wanted to. It's hard to find an AP item that feels outright bad on a mage, at least in comparison to finding an AD item that feels bad on an AD champ of some kind, despite how much mage mains complain for more buffs to their items. Now for the thing that started all this: Yeah, fuck marksmen. If they don't have their foot on everyone's throats at all times, it's a fucking problem for no good reason. Riot's never been able to balance this damn class and I'm honestly getting ticked off by the topic of marksmen at this point. Their class is too low variance to have the type of early game impact these marksman players cry for, but instead of realizing this, they keep on crying and it fucking irks me.
: The links don’t automatically do that and I have no idea why, but if you actually clicked on it you’d see more champions than ever being played in the bottom lane that aren’t Marksman. Y’know if you actually clicked on it....instead of using some random insult as a point of argument.
Only Yasuo has anything above even a two percent play rate out of all of those listed. They're not even worth referencing.
: Why is it a problem? Support style champions are always in the support role. Champions that can skirmish and are mobile are always jungle. Burst is always mid lane. Tankiness is always top lane. What's wrong if DPS is always bot lane? Would you feel better if we broke Marksmen into two classes?
I'd feel better if you didn't answer everything with absolute bs. Since when were the likes of GP, Fiora, and Quinn tanks? Since when were champs like Sejuani, Amumu, and Rammus "mobile skirmishers"? And since when was Cass considered high burst? You're making up arbitrary nonsense to support a nonsense claim that only one class in the game can be a bot lane carry. Not surprised...and not disappointed either because this is typical of you.
: Yeah, people complained because adcs were unpickable. Shockingly, ADCs have to be really weak for other shit to play bot lane, despite being suboptimal in bot lane. The rest of what mentioned doesn't really matter. You didn't explain why support being mandatory is fine. You stated supports are different. So what? Marksmen are different too. Again, why are support and jungle allowed to be mandatory, but not marksmen?
Because "support" and "jungle" are **roles** that are populated by a variety of different champion classes. **MARKSMAN IS NOT THE BOT LANE ROLE, BUT THE CLASS HAS DOMINATED IT SO MUCH IT'S NOW SYNONYMOUS WITH THE LANE ROLE. THAT IS A PROBLEM.**
: > [{quoted}](name=Anìmê,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZKr72omY,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-12-09T16:33:18.576+0000) > > It has been updated. > > Rengar is the only champion with **camouflage** that gives you a warning. > > Evelynn only gives a warning if she casts W on someone. > > Twitch doesn't have anything he can do in **camouflage** without breaking it. > > **Camouflage** is one of the two types of invisibilities in the game. **Camouflage** hides targets from champions a certain distance away from them, but the can be seen by Control Wards. > > **Stealth**, the other form of invisibility can not be detected by nearby champion of Control Wards. > > **Camouflage** is long term invisibility. > > **Stealth** is short term invisibility. Not entirely accurate. Teemo can remain invisible for extended periods of time and often does so to set up outplays.
: ***
I'm absolutely amused by the fact that you somehow managed to rank shame someone that's a division higher than you while discussing a champion that has like 8% win rate less than yours in our elo, 5% less in top specifically, on a significantly lower play rate than your champ. You're basically playing freelo while crying about a low tier (as far as solo queue's concerned, anyway).
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ps2ugG1s,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-09T08:31:55.678+0000) > > She's had it before, regardless. Was better, and STILL a very toxic skill to have.
So I take it you hate Vayne with a burning passion?
Infernape (EUW)
: At this point, they might as well remove it. She's going to keep getting nerfed for the sake of obscurity's existence.
But remove it for her to more easily burst you in more situations?
: Is the whole "invisibility" concept to be super toxic and untifun. The "tower protection" is just an added problem, but that mechanic is innately stupid. Is not about being OP or not, is just not fun to play against that kind of stuff.
She's had it before, regardless. So you're basically just saying "Screw this champion on a base level".
Rioter Comments
PepijndM (EUW)
: The math sure checks out. But why does an (tank/support) Alistar do 800 damage in two rotations, where the cooldown is low enough that he did indeed get two rotations of? That is quite a lot of damage...
I'm sorry, this is League of Legends, not League of Pillow Fights. Attacks do damage, and they do more damage when you don't build defense.
Owl Puff (NA)
: Just because there are champs with worse kits doesn't mean that it's not unhealthy. The point is that she can attack you under turret, lose aggro and repeat. I'd rather have her be targetable and bursty like zed. The turret should at least have some pressure in lane but Akali completely negates that with her w.
So you want to be {{champion:7}} 'd in an instant instead of having time to try to save yourself?
Owl Puff (NA)
: You're right about that but that doesn't mean that it's healthy.
What do you prefer? - A few seconds to walk away from a dive. or - Being slain the moment the enemy gap closes during their dive. One person ignores a few turret shots. The rest of them kill you by the time they took only one turret shot. I have more time to deal with the Akali, and that means I have more time to play around her dive pattern to save myself, assuming I don't get R2'd. Akali's R2, which is locked behind a cd wall, is what any other assassin just outright does the moment they get on you. It might be ANNOYING for a carry champion, but to say it's outright unhealthy when champs like LeBlanc, Rengar, or K6 exist is a massive stretch. Even so, we're going to ruin a good thing by nerfing this interaction, then buffing her damage dealing so she kills faster. Calling it now.
: Interesting Riot perspective on buff/nerf champions and thought process
Riot Blaustoise is a Yasuo main. Akali is *designed to counter Yasuo* in the same way Yasuo is *designed to play into mages.* Of course he isn't a fan of Akali. How many mid laners are a fan of Yasuo?
Fízz v2 (EUW)
: Because she can reset aggro like 10 times on 8 seconds while other assassins can maybe do it once
Other assassins don't need as much time to kill you under turret.
: Love how much reaction time i have to prevent that...
Between Eve's MR shred and Zoe's MR pen, you took true damage from a Zoe with a Deathcap and 3 other damage items. IMAGINE if you built Banshee's. You wouldn't be here complaining RN.
: Ya done ****ed it up, Riot.
So let me wrap this shit up for everyone: 1) This dude has shown us 0 evidence that he even knows how to play this game based on him running Exhaust/Cleanse in soon-to-be Iron elo (which is NOT an elo shaming thing but I'm making a point, here). 2) This dude tries to deflect from people that call him out on this by saying he "has a main account in KR" that no one's seen, and could ALSO be Iron tier for all we know. 3) He's doing all this complaining about a champ that literally came out *today.* That sums up just about all the counter-points to whatever bellyaching is in this thread.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 5
Champion roadmap when? And don't answer with some confirming word that gives no information beyond "Yes", por favor. And ALSO don't answer with some de-confirming word that gives no information beyond "no", now that I thought about it. AND ALSO don't answer with "maybe" or anything similar. Aight, shoot.
Dr Dog (NA)
: my take on what the main issue with champs/reworks this year was
Nunu Successful Maybe if "successful" means "fucking worthless", sure.
: > Most of the Diamond players of Season 3-4 make a Silver III Squirm and confess..... they could have played better. That's got to be a fucking joke. Also, low elo players have always said shit like that, they still say it about current plat/diamond players
No, players back in the day were WAY worse than they are now. That's blatantly true.
: What are you supposed to do when teammates refuse to follow good advice?
Honestly, you lose. People like to shift blame all the time, but the real reason tanks feel bad in solo queue is because of player ignorance. Utility-based kits, regardless of how strong, suffer deflated win rates in solo queue because people don't know how to play around these kits or actively do dumb shit that makes them meaningless. Like building Zhonya's into a fed Annie...that kind of stupid.
Sukishoo (NA)
: That you have no comprehension on how English works? No, I saw that :)
Sure, guy. Just stop vote-teaming on me with whatever buddy you got there.
: Can we talk about how is wukong is garbage compared to all divers of his class ?
Wukong is bad! **Compares to Vi** Like...Vi's also just as garbage...
Sukishoo (NA)
: No lol. Should be "When are we going to get an Enchanter"
No duh, but you're ignoring the style of the post.
Sukishoo (NA)
: The next one will be early 2019, which will give us more on morg/kayle, probably more on the chain champ and whatever other vgus they are ready to tease >And when will where we're going be "Enchanter"? Also, most incomprehensible sentence I've seen in awhile.
Aight And when will "where we're going" be "Enchanter"? Better?
: The biggest problem with Marksmen and Tanks right now...
I'm gonna have to give this a "no" dawg. Double tank comps are viable. Not in solo queue, but they are.
: when do they rework the reporting system so it actually affects the people who truely ruin this game yet run rampid in almost every single game ? Screw reworks of champions rework the reporting system.
Make your own thread. Don't hijack mine.
Rioter Comments
: Wait a minute, we're going to have the same overall meta of champions for the next 2-3 months?
How's Akali meta when no one can play her and those that do lose constantly as she's constantly nerfed while people keep telling Riot that they havne't nerfed her yet?
: > [{quoted}](name=King Lego,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bAI1AZQE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-11-30T13:34:12.332+0000) > > For what I see from my point of view, the Asian infamous internet cafes where they have limited time since they are paying money to play and want to play as much matches as possible and so league becomes a fast paced game with stronger snowballing and absurd damage and if the match takes too long they afk without punishment. > > What games are you talking about in Japan? > Japan is a beast in making games while China is mostly rip off games due to their weird foreign laws. Final Fantasy XIV has some excellent tank mechanics, for example. I also notice I get a lot of praise when I stream <a certain other MOBA Riot probably won't let me mention> because it allows its tanks to actually tank and is thus fun to watch. There are others, but the last time I typed in Japanese on this forum, I got a warning.
Just say the English translation of the name...it isn't hard. I think the forums have a rule about typing in English on here.
: >she's gonna be outright weak For a champion like her, overall weak should be the target for balancing. The same for Camille and Akali.
And lemme guess: "Sithesislord mains one of the fair champions, so his champions are perfectly fine and shouldn't be weak."
Alzon (NA)
: Yeah, and whenever the lane isn’t slowpushing to me I just smash her like another minion because the guy playing her doesn’t fully know what he’s doing. It’s whenever she gets her passive and Conqueror stacked that I have to sit way, way far back and just let Jesus take the wheel while she free farms. This feeling of utter helplessness is why I ban her. Of course I beat most Irelias in lane, but is going 3/0 a won lane if I’m also down 2 levels and 30 CS? Not to mention I’m literally just sitting there most of the time. I want to play League of Legends, dammit!
If you're 3/0, you aren't 2 levels and 30 cs down unless you afk'd. Either she gives you more trouble than you let on, or you really just don't want Irelia to be remotely good as a champion.
: I get a feeling this is exaggeration as the exp range is 1600 last I checked meaning Irelia would need at least 2 Q to get in range.
Oh it's a massive exaggeration, but the point is that Irelia zoning people from waves depends on the wave and how its shaping up.
: Why do you hate playing against Irelia to the point you would ban her over other options?
Answer: I don't. By the time they tinker around with her W, she's gonna be outright weak, honestly. People just want to see newer, flashier champs be garbage while they play the "not as new" ones and rake in freelo. It's sickening behavior.
Alzon (NA)
: She’s the only champion who will force me to sit outside of EXP range while I’m at full HP. Every other champion either has a much lower engage range or much less kill pressure versus full-HP targets.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rv4jG8IR,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-11-30T06:05:18.638+0000) > > Champions with high pick rates are champions with high ban rates. It has little or nothing to do with how powerful the champion is as opposed to how popular it is. It makes tactical sense to ban popular choices because you are likely eliminating an opponenet&#x27;s first choice, likely placing them at or near tilt while simultaneously forcing them to play a substitute champion. Doing so increases your chance of winning. > > People aren&#x27;t simply blowing smoke out of their asses when they say winning begins at champion select. > > Ban rates are not guaranteed to drop for champions Riot nerfs, especially if the champions remain popular picks even after their nerfs. And it should not be Riot&#x27;s place to directly influence player picks and bans. Thats not always true though. There are plenty of popular picks with low ban rates. In fact, the highest banned aren't even the most popular picked.
...because they're banned instead of picked.
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