: Senna - Why is she classified as a Mage/Marksman?
Yes but Alistar and Blitzcrank are tanks, so is Trundle, Shin, Poppy, Malphite, Ornn, Volibear, Nunu and Willump, Sion, and Nautilus, Galio, and Maokai, though Maokai, and Galio are tank mages, they still go bot as support, it's been accepted for a long time that some tanks can go bot lane as a supportive tank and side note Alistar is considered a tank support kind of like Tahm Kench, Braum, and Leona and yes Trundle and Volibear are usually more considered bruisers they can still fulfill the tank role.
: senna gets released, and so many people are trying to play her adc/bot isn't she support? supposedto
That's weird because you guys are saying what I initially thought that she was a support and that was her main primary role but actually in game they have her labeled as a marksman, mage not a support, and when you look at her kit sure she has a couple of supportive abilities but most of them seem situational at best and her damage seems on par as karma which is a mage first support next, like what I'm saying like she seems to be an adc, but is in line with kog'maw, varus, ezreal, kennen, Azir, and Jhin as a marksman mage, or mage marksman
Rioter Comments
Sukishoo (NA)
: Do what I do and don't show your pick. If they ask what you are going, say nothing. There's many ways to make their own games fail on them without having to ruin it for the rest of the team
> [{quoted}](name=Sukishoo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PkVAmmOI,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-06-07T12:12:41.803+0000) > > Do what I do and don't show your pick. If they ask what you are going, say nothing. There's many ways to make their own games fail on them without having to ruin it for the rest of the team Except that's stupid I pick my support base off of who my adc is. I play 5 supports so if you don't select I might pick a sup that doesn't synergizes well with my adc. On flip side I pick Tristana if I have a tanky sup and 2 hard engage. Twitch if we have no assassin or I have a Pyle or there team is squishy. Point is you are going to get assholes that ban your pick. But if you are calling yourself a support main and running a brand or Annie as your main supports you deserve the adc banning your champion.
: [Opinion] SOLO Q next year should not have DUOs. DUO players are a party, and should play in flex Q.
And still relevant a year later to, honestly riot listen to the player base, most of want a solo que, it's competitive, leave normal the way it is, but bring us solo que. If I want to play with friends, I rather just play normal draft, or shit with my cousin I rather just go to flex que and test our mettle there.
: > [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4n1AF8wW,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2018-10-24T11:24:54.583+0000) > > Also if you play a REAL support like {{champion:53}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:555}}{{champion:111}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:44}} I'll be more likely to honor you than if you play a Mage Support. > > > I can't stand these wannabe "Supports" who come bot lane because "Zed is mid lane cancer!111" > > I'm looking at you {{champion:63}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:143}} so you're telling me a champion with aoe, a root and shield isn't supposed to support. but you're telling me morgana is a real support?
> [{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4n1AF8wW,comment-id=001c0002,timestamp=2018-10-24T19:57:57.699+0000) > > so you're telling me a champion with aoe, a root and shield isn't supposed to support. but you're telling me morgana is a real support? Morgana has an anti cc shield a snare and an aoe slow and a possibility of an aoe stun. Lux is very well a good support option problem is people aren't generally playing her as a support. They're playing her as an apc bot laner. She goes full ap and uses her ult to steal a kill rather than start off weakening the opponents.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Thairn (NA)
: She's a damage support who has utility, like Karma, Lux, Fiddlesticks, Orianna, Zilean, and Syndra.
> [{quoted}](name=Thairn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mrMgc5nK,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-07-25T08:47:38.482+0000) > > She's a damage support who has utility, like Karma, Lux, Fiddlesticks, Orianna, Zilean, and Syndra. Except every champion you just mention are supports like legit supports. Karma has a shield a snare a movement speed buff and a slow. Lux double snare aoe slow and a shield fiddlesticks ape silence and a fear orianna ape slow suck in and a shield zilean exp boost speed boost stun and a revive syndra stun knockback and have to look at her kit again but yeah she had several supportive abilities annie does not she is a mage with a conditional stun which could be a Game changer but if stun is burned incorrectly she can't do anything to protect her team. Every actual support inn this game have several supportive abilities to either enhance in terms of a buff or control a team fight.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Finn Teh Human,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ELXJaxsK,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-09-15T15:48:31.551+0000) > > ADC isn't worthless. Late game they deal a shit ton of damage, they get towers like they're minions, they get objectives fast af. Maybe you should try a comp without an ADC and see how well you do. ADC is worthless, Talon with just Youmuus can take tower faster than any 6 item ADC. That just goes to show you how useless they are. Any mid can isnta remove them from the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Malignant Vemira,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ELXJaxsK,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-09-21T15:02:19.112+0000) > > ADC is worthless, Talon with just Youmuus can take tower faster than any 6 item ADC. That just goes to show you how useless they are. Any mid can isnta remove them from the game. Considering mid is usually played by assassins and or mages which entire jobs are designed around taking out the adc um I'm pretty sure they're supposed to do that. And actually no talon can not and will never out dps even the worst damaging adc. He's an assassin his job is kill the adc He's not played for his damage those that do are idiots and usually don't understand the concept of this game very well.
: Adc has one job. Right click people.
> [{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ELXJaxsK,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-09-29T19:03:26.383+0000) > > Adc has one job. Right click people. As for this comment play adc and do well with an adc despite your team carry them to victory and you'll realize real quick adc isn't just right click your target.
: Why is it 99.9% the ADC's fault?
As an adc and support.......I feel I can say the most. A lot of people don't like adcs. Even if we do our job right get the most damage people will only notice the assassin that got a ton of kills. But if we don't have much impact because of a shitty lane phase it's anyways our fault when we lose. Being an adc is lose lose situation.......most people would rather be without an adc altogether. Now you got a support.........they are mostly love and if they go above and beyond and decide to play apc bot they are cherished..........if they fail it's the adc fault. People are normally just happy to see a support.
: > [{quoted}](name=OmegaNITRO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=32mEf8fu,comment-id=001b000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-12T18:56:04.603+0000) > > Your statement had nothing to do with my response... if you actually researched LOL Season 1, or the term ADC, you'd learn it existed before the meta emerged, before Riot started calling them all marksmen, and before it became common practice to put the ADC and Support in bot lane because of the proximity to Dragon. > > So the role, "ADC", came first, before they commonly were referred to as marksmen, and they became synonymous with "bot lane carry" **because it turns out having an ADC and Support there is generally the most effective strategy to win. ** And here's where you suffer amnesia. Right here. Riot made a big deal of trying to make it so marksmen were less mandatory to the game's meta. It FINALLY goes through. One month or so later, and we're back where we started. It isn't because marksmen "have to be there to win". Marksmen players **won't let themselves be put in a situation where they aren't on every fucking team, every fucking game.** "Bu-bu-but no marksmen were pla-" Wrong. Marksmen WERE played even after 8.11. The difference is that they had new competition. CRIT marksmen weren't played, but Ezreal, Kai'Sa, Lucian, and Jhin when the Stormraizer bug got dealt with were all still good bot lane picks, even when Dinger, Swain, Ziggs, Vlad, and Yasuo were in the lane as well. In solo queue, Draven, MF, and Jinx were still being played in the lane as well. "Bu-bu-but mages in bot lane were canc-" Well, look who wants a lane all to themselves? You think mages like *divers in mid lane?* Fuck no, but you don't see mid laners whining for Irelia and Kled to be manually phased out of mid lane. Top lane has a mix of subclasses. Mid lane has a mix of subclasses. Jg has a mix of subclasses. Support has a mix of subclasses. The ONLY role that's fucking stagnant for years is the bot lane carry position, and even when we finally had a starting point to fixing it, it gets reverted SOLELY because of marksman players complaining? Really? I wish I could just whine all the tank supports out of my lane like you guys can. Leagu is a game where you don't HAVE to have an enchanter, or HAVE to have a diver, or HAVE to have a tank, or HAVE to have an assassin, but you ALWAYS have to have a marksman. What a joke.
> [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=32mEf8fu,comment-id=001b0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-12T20:09:57.386+0000) > > And here's where you suffer amnesia. Right here. > > Riot made a big deal of trying to make it so marksmen were less mandatory to the game's meta. It FINALLY goes through. One month or so later, and we're back where we started. It isn't because marksmen "have to be there to win". Marksmen players **won't let themselves be put in a situation where they aren't on every fucking team, every fucking game.** > > "Bu-bu-but no marksmen were pla-" Wrong. Marksmen WERE played even after 8.11. The difference is that they had new competition. CRIT marksmen weren't played, but Ezreal, Kai'Sa, Lucian, and Jhin when the Stormraizer bug got dealt with were all still good bot lane picks, even when Dinger, Swain, Ziggs, Vlad, and Yasuo were in the lane as well. In solo queue, Draven, MF, and Jinx were still being played in the lane as well. > > "Bu-bu-but mages in bot lane were canc-" Well, look who wants a lane all to themselves? You think mages like *divers in mid lane?* Fuck no, but you don't see mid laners whining for Irelia and Kled to be manually phased out of mid lane. Top lane has a mix of subclasses. Mid lane has a mix of subclasses. Jg has a mix of subclasses. Support has a mix of subclasses. The ONLY role that's fucking stagnant for years is the bot lane carry position, and even when we finally had a starting point to fixing it, it gets reverted SOLELY because of marksman players complaining? Really? I wish I could just whine all the tank supports out of my lane like you guys can. Leagu is a game where you don't HAVE to have an enchanter, or HAVE to have a diver, or HAVE to have a tank, or HAVE to have an assassin, but you ALWAYS have to have a marksman. What a joke. Uh deal with it or stop playing. Marksman are adcs you also kind of need a mage and kind of need a tank or support or even better learn this formula. Tanks beat fighters and assassins. But not good against marksman and mages. Fighters beat mages and assassins but aren't good against tanks or marksman. Assassins beat marksman and mages but aren't good against tanks and fighters. Mages beat marksman and tanks but aren't good against assassins and fighters. It's like a complex version of rock paper scissors that exist in almost every kind of rts and moba games. You sound like that bitch ass player that gets pissed because he wants to play champions like yi and snowball every game. Top lane is there to soak up dps you want to play apc mid great but realize that sometimes you're going to play against zed or yasuo. Your waveclear is generally better push his wave and roam problem solved. But marksman are weak early game so they need to fight other weak early game champions. 1. To make up for this they can carry their team at end game. Because of their importance maybe it might be a good idea to gank bot lane more.
: To people that hate ADC.
I'm coming back and as an adc main these are things I want and things I don't. I don't want to one shot Shit that's not my job. I don't want to be bursted down by a fucking tank. I dont want to play with or against an assassin bruiser or a fucking mage win or lose don't care you have 3 other lane jungle places to be go there. Things I want I want to be killed by an assassin or mage that's their job kill me its my job not to be caught and my teams job to make it hard on them. I want to do the most damage end game by about 20 to 25 minutes help push objectives and win team fights. Split note stop trying to lower how long a game lasts because lcs players are lazy as fuck and just want their pay check. My favorite game 53 minute match where we had 9 kills they had 7 because we went back and forth it was hard to get a kill nobody snowballed. We won but at the end no complaints no you suck or flaming we all said good game and added each other as friends afterwards. The game was fun because it was challenging we were all engaged we had several team fights but no team had a clear advantage. Better matchmaking formula couldn't hurt either. I think if riot focus on making the average game around 30 to 45 minutes you'll have a better game and product people will like. So nerf overall damage make towers dragon baron Herald hard and give time to contest. Give the losing team a chance to come back in a game not oh were winning push and win bullshit we see now. Where most of the champions don't even get past 15 minutes or 3 items. Shit I don't even think most champions even try to counter until the 4th item anyways..... I don't want to be a 1 v 5 hero. Just like I don't want assassins to merc my whole team even though he got no kills in laning phase. I have a brilliant idea let's stop trying to change the game and focus on how we can make the current meta better and more fun for all players. Assasins let them do their job burst down squishes and retreat reset and try again. Bruisers initiate force a team fight or objective control. Tanks get in their force the team to focus you and force them to stop you from getting and separating their carries. Supports guard your team protect them.....underlining keep an eye on pesky assassins getting to your carries. Mages unload on enemy team force enemy bruisers and tanks to grab some magic resist. Then get some magic penetration push waves and waveclear. Marksman that's me be engaged but not be an easy target use range push towers. And do damage. Let's stop seeking diversity in lane and start trying to focus on balancing champions on roles rather than making any champion going anywhere. That'll just throw away balance. Wouldn't it be much easier to balance if you weren't so focus on trying to allow those select few players that want to play swain at bot lane to be happy? Oh and one last thing stop basing balancing decisions off of the less than 10 percent of players that are diamond and above that collectively splits league of legends into noobville and premier league.
Aptest (EUW)
: well you can be tilted or you can be not tilted but saying to me, that my play style is predetermined to be to enable you and your selfish desires of "me carry", or else you will be tilted and feed, well that is not something I accept, and it is within my privilige to not accept this. You will come into the game tilt-proof.
> [{quoted}](name=Aptest,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0B6ZTfcA,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-24T12:11:36.699+0000) > > well you can be tilted or you can be not tilted but saying to me, that my play style is predetermined to be to enable you and your selfish desires of "me carry", or else you will be tilted and feed, well that is not something I accept, and it is within my privilige to not accept this. > > You will come into the game tilt-proof. It's simple it's a team game if you and your adc start off on the wrong foot it's already most likely a loss lane.......and ultimately unless another lane got fed to hell most likely the game is lost........I get it the whole mentality of I like playing who I want, but if you can't play an actual support champion and you really have that much issue towards it, then don't play support.......I know for one I don't want players like you being my support......you seem like that selfish type that is going to play a mage no matter which adc I would choose to play. My mentality isn't selfish, my job as an adc is to carry, it's support's job to make the adc's job easier......either by defending them, or by setting shit up to feed them. Win or lose, generally I be more happy with a any support champion then winning because I got a Brand at bot lane, I just feel like we cheated the other team of having any chance of winning.
Rioter Comments
: “Make trading useless early game” And here we have the problem. They don’t want to make trading useless early game. It’s an integral part of the laning phase.
> [{quoted}](name=Bigrig107,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0B6ZTfcA,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-04-07T08:21:24.240+0000) > > “Make trading useless early game” > > And here we have the problem. They don’t want to make trading useless early game. It’s an integral part of the laning phase. My point exactly but when you are playing against Brand Xerath, you can't hope to trade with them, they're there to kill ya, not to trade, they want you dead, they'll throw pillar of flame at you all day and miss 90% of it, but that one time they actually hit you with it, and bam dead.
Aptest (EUW)
: well then I don't agree that it is your job to carry the team and i'm willing to take a loss on my disagreement. And I also disagree that I am taking a loss on my disagreement. All things within my privilege.
> [{quoted}](name=Aptest,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0B6ZTfcA,comment-id=00000000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-18T07:09:56.388+0000) > > well then I don't agree that it is your job to carry the team and i'm willing to take a loss on my disagreement. And I also disagree that I am taking a loss on my disagreement. > > All things within my privilege. You do realize that the adc stands for attack damage carry, their whole purpose is to carry, they do most damage overall without them your chances of winning decrease dramatically, even more so in higher tier play. so when an adc asks you please pick an actual support........it's probably not a good idea to tilt him. He's not telling you pick this support, he's simply asking you if you could please pick any support champion, Soraka, Karma, Lux, Morgana, Braum, Thresh, so many support options in this game.....it's unreal how many different options you have as a support......And supports are very useful throughout the entire game......while apcs like Brand and Annie, is really easy to counter, just build mr, just like you would any other mage, and bam, their usefulness is expired, while with Morgana, okay mr, she has a snare, an aoe slow, potential aoe stun, and let's not forget, her anti cc shield as well as magic damage barrier. Soraka can keep healing you, Sona aoe stun is no fucking joke..........Karma can do what Brand does with zone control, plus she has a snare, a slow, movement speed increased......same with lux, but a multi-target snare, an aoe slow, and a multi targeted barrier. They are supports, Brand is not, you play him bot you are robbing your team of a support, because all Brand is is a mage and that's it!
: Thank you for your opinion. If people build mr or have decent mobility then they should be fine.
> [{quoted}](name=ImmaHappyPotato,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eNGrFEHU,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2017-07-29T07:49:33.045+0000) > > Thank you for your opinion. If people build mr or have decent mobility then they should be fine. No not entirely because his passive gives him free ap constantly throughout the game, so he goes full ap with his passive full build this motherfucker is very hard to fight against in team fights.
: i dont think twice about viegar i think he is fine if i get caught by his ring of death and get blown up that is on me cuz its so easy for him to miss the stun on it
> [{quoted}](name=oSEXYPLATYPUSo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eNGrFEHU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-07-26T05:15:09.666+0000) > > i dont think twice about viegar > > i think he is fine > > if i get caught by his ring of death and get blown up that is on me cuz its so easy for him to miss the stun on it Yeah but with the rework if you get caught in the circle it's damn well near impossible to not get hit by the bomb before at least you could dodge the bomb.
Aptest (EUW)
: You are entitled to having a preference. You are not entitled to having an expectation that your preference is catered to.
> [{quoted}](name=Aptest,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0B6ZTfcA,comment-id=000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-10T16:13:56.167+0000) > > You are entitled to having a preference. > > You are not entitled to having an expectation that your preference is catered to. Yes but if I'm the adc, and it's my job to carry my team when I ask you not to play a mage at bot lane with me that I would prefer an actual support, you should catered too that, or risk losing because it's that much harder for an adc to carry their team with a Brand or Annie that has nothing defensive about them, at least has a shield, a mult-ti targeted snare as well as an aoe slow.
Aptest (EUW)
: As the person who signed up to play support, I get to say what this means, that i am playing "support". And you, as an ADC player, don't get to have expectations: especially if they are selfish ones. The game play fantasy of the support is "the king maker" that is to say, the fantasy is to determine who will be king, and crown that person. not, to have it determined in advance that you are king, and serve that goal. The support, _in a good play through for the support player_, can choose to crown one of several allies, and crowns the one she likes the most. --- I'll take this moment to talk about some double standard that EVERYONE has in this game. I would like to play a fun champion and with that fun champion to do fun things in the game, and I expect these fun things to lead to winning. And from my allies, I expect them to play in the manner that promotes winning the most, regardless of whether this way of playing is or is not fun for them. So for me, it's fun first, winning later, and for you, play to win, and your fun doesn't matter at all. everybody is like that. just look at all the zed and rengar players saying that supports and adcs should "macro around assassins". but they dont switch to the most OP champions in the game even though they can play janna if they really wanted to win.
> [{quoted}](name=Aptest,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0B6ZTfcA,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-03T17:25:16.396+0000) > > As the person who signed up to play support, I get to say what this means, that i am playing "support". And you, as an ADC player, don't get to have expectations: especially if they are selfish ones. > > The game play fantasy of the support is "the king maker" that is to say, the fantasy is to determine who will be king, and crown that person. not, to have it determined in advance that you are king, and serve that goal. The support, _in a good play through for the support player_, can choose to crown one of several allies, and crowns the one she likes the most. > > --- > > I'll take this moment to talk about some double standard that EVERYONE has in this game. I would like to play a fun champion and with that fun champion to do fun things in the game, and I expect these fun things to lead to winning. And from my allies, I expect them to play in the manner that promotes winning the most, regardless of whether this way of playing is or is not fun for them. So for me, it's fun first, winning later, and for you, play to win, and your fun doesn't matter at all. > > everybody is like that. just look at all the zed and rengar players saying that supports and adcs should "macro around assassins". but they dont switch to the most OP champions in the game even though they can play janna if they really wanted to win. All I'm saying is this, every champions is categorized as these, fighters, assassins, tanks, mages, marksman, supports, of all these roles, we all know that an apc, is a mage, an adc is a marksman, and a support is a fn support....... Assassins can mid to a lot of them, like Akali, Fizz, Zed, Yasuo, not mentioning assassins that are also as well as mages like Ahri, Katarina, and Kassadin......my point is this, I rather have an ashe playing support then a brand why because ashe is supportive, she's a marksman support, Brand is a just a mage, he's not a support, a support can protect me their kit is designed protect me the team,,,,,,thresh, escape knock-up/back, slow, stun.....soraka snare, silence, heal, slow, sona, heal, movement speed increase, steroid in damage both magic and attack damage, and stun, ashe slows for fucking days, stun, vision, brand......damage, potential stun, damage, damage, damage, damage, their is his kit, potential stun is not supportive it's you being selfish and not willing to play support role.....
Gabresol (EUW)
: Wait how strong they will be after the mana changes {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
> [{quoted}](name=Gabresol,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0B6ZTfcA,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-30T10:01:45.422+0000) > > Wait how strong they will be after the mana changes {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} Yeah I am so fucking happy about this last update, I think it definitely will decrease champions like Brand, and Veigar wanting to support while other actual support champions will feel the hit but not as badly as say Brand, or supports that go full ap like Lux, I'm thinking they'll start wanting to build more supportive hopefully that is.
Aptest (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=creatureplex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0B6ZTfcA,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2018-04-30T05:06:25.040+0000) >np take this just saying there are options. This is how you sound like: > make **ME **useless when they are supporting. ...saved **MY **life, give **ME **a shield from...support should pick up items to help assist **ME **. The role of the support is not to make you have a good game.
> [{quoted}](name=Aptest,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0B6ZTfcA,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-04-30T11:53:16.875+0000) > > This is how you sound like: > > The role of the support is not to make you have a good game. No, but if I'm adc and I'm doing well it would help a lot if my support grabs supportive items to help increase my time to stay in a fight, I'm a secondary support, my last game my adc sucked so I started building into ap.....all I'm saying if you have a good adc, you can usually tell very quickly, how they play I have an ashe using q on waves, not good, a vayne just tumbling all the time everytime it's up.....tristana dropping bombs on every minions not just siege kind of shit like that, chances are they aren't that good of an adc......that's when I say go ap if you are an ap support,,,,,but if you have a kick ass adc, them doing so well. they're fed, the enemy wants them dead more than anyone else, and as a support it's your job to support the carry on your team.......get a sightstone, maybe redemption locket, support you signed up to be support, play the support role, switch up if your adc sucks alright cool, start going ap, but stop assuming that every adc sucks.
MrHaZeYo (NA)
: The problem with this is also that it hinders Mid Lane Mages. ADs are already powerful enough, they don't need more help at blocking out Magical Damage. Furthermore Zyra has always been a support who builds mostly AP botlane, even when she was reworked a couple years ago, it was intended that she would still be a hybrid Mage Support. Imo, Brand is the only real culprit he just dumps on people, items or not. Vel and Zyra while annoying don't push out Janna, Lulu, Nami, or Karma and champions like Blitz, Thresh, Leo, and Ali can make a Brand's life hell as long as they can survive the early portion of lane which isn't all that difficult if they don't go balls to the wall every chance they get. Lux and Annie really don't strive as much as most people like to think bot lane. Lux's damage is marginal without early AP items and Annie is such a short range mage that without Flash she just gets poked out by the AD and supports such as Nami, Lulu, Sona, Karma, and even Janna. Malz has been gutted for the most part and is fairly easy to deal with in lane, even with his ult which is honestly the only reason people even play him anymore and that has a big F you in the fact ADs can easily work QSS/Merc Scimi into their build without sacrficing much damage. Idk who on earth plays TF support, he's a awful mid laner, in the sense of he is easy to lane against, it's almost a free lane, he relys on roams to be effective out of mid, so without being able to get early strong AP items he suffers a lot of the same problems that Lux would, without the massive range. Viegs I could see being a decent support but again he isn't that strong during the early game and his E is pretty easy to play around, it helps in gank situations but in straight 2v2s it's not that powerful, he will scale to be a beast, but meh there are better choices to help your AD win the game. Ziggs in the Bot role isn't awful but as a support his damage is again marginal without farm and real AP items. I've seen Xerath do well as a support, but he is also fairly easy to dodge out and if he doesn't get fed like all these champs I've covered he isn't worth much. According to League Alytics the rankings of supports based on Plat+ is as follows Tier1: {{champion:40}} {{champion:497}} Tier2: {{champion:267}} {{champion:12}} Tier3: {{champion:44}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:14}} Tier4: {{champion:432}} {{champion:25}}{{champion:143}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:223}} Tier5: {{champion:101}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:1}} Tier6:{{champion:161}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:45}} Tier7: {{champion:54}} {{champion:111}} > LoL Tier List Legend > Win Rate > Best Win Rate > Pick Rate > Ban Rate > The best win rate reflects the win rate of the top summoners in every region on each of the champions over the last 7 days. > > This gives a performance measure of a champion right now in the hands of an expert playing at high elo. The tier and division icon is the average elo of these summoners. > > Maximum 50 summoners are used per region with a minimum of Diamond V and 50 games played on the champion to be elegible. https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/tierlist/ I moved the rating to Brz+ and some of the champions you mentioned did move up the standings, but this has more to do with the fact that supports in Brz are more than likely autofilled and picking champions who they feel will make a actual impact on the game, because they don't know if their AD is gonna be worth a crap to pick a actual supportive champion and play around.. In my last twenty games, which is 40 supports, I only had 1 Brand, 1 Vel, and 1 Viegar. The rest where actual support champions ( I count Morg as a actual Support). That was in Silver 1.
> [{quoted}](name=MrHaZeYo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0B6ZTfcA,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-06T08:38:50.898+0000) > > The problem with this is also that it hinders Mid Lane Mages. ADs are already powerful enough, they don't need more help at blocking out Magical Damage. > > Furthermore Zyra has always been a support who builds mostly AP botlane, even when she was reworked a couple years ago, it was intended that she would still be a hybrid Mage Support. > > Imo, Brand is the only real culprit he just dumps on people, items or not. > > Vel and Zyra while annoying don't push out Janna, Lulu, Nami, or Karma and champions like Blitz, Thresh, Leo, and Ali can make a Brand's life hell as long as they can survive the early portion of lane which isn't all that difficult if they don't go balls to the wall every chance they get. > > Lux and Annie really don't strive as much as most people like to think bot lane. Lux's damage is marginal without early AP items and Annie is such a short range mage that without Flash she just gets poked out by the AD and supports such as Nami, Lulu, Sona, Karma, and even Janna. > > Malz has been gutted for the most part and is fairly easy to deal with in lane, even with his ult which is honestly the only reason people even play him anymore and that has a big F you in the fact ADs can easily work QSS/Merc Scimi into their build without sacrficing much damage. > > Idk who on earth plays TF support, he's a awful mid laner, in the sense of he is easy to lane against, it's almost a free lane, he relys on roams to be effective out of mid, so without being able to get early strong AP items he suffers a lot of the same problems that Lux would, without the massive range. > > Viegs I could see being a decent support but again he isn't that strong during the early game and his E is pretty easy to play around, it helps in gank situations but in straight 2v2s it's not that powerful, he will scale to be a beast, but meh there are better choices to help your AD win the game. > > Ziggs in the Bot role isn't awful but as a support his damage is again marginal without farm and real AP items. > > I've seen Xerath do well as a support, but he is also fairly easy to dodge out and if he doesn't get fed like all these champs I've covered he isn't worth much. > > According to League Alytics the rankings of supports based on Plat+ is as follows > > Tier1: {{champion:40}} {{champion:497}} > Tier2: {{champion:267}} {{champion:12}} > Tier3: {{champion:44}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:14}} > Tier4: {{champion:432}} {{champion:25}}{{champion:143}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:223}} > Tier5: {{champion:101}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:1}} > Tier6:{{champion:161}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:45}} > Tier7: {{champion:54}} {{champion:111}} > > https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/tierlist/ > > I moved the rating to Brz+ and some of the champions you mentioned did move up the standings, but this has more to do with the fact that supports in Brz are more than likely autofilled and picking champions who they feel will make a actual impact on the game, because they don't know if their AD is gonna be worth a crap to pick a actual supportive champion and play around.. > > In my last twenty games, which is 40 supports, I only had 1 Brand, 1 Vel, and 1 Viegar. The rest where actual support champions ( I count Morg as a actual Support). That was in Silver 1. In bronze, I find that almost daily I have to dodge at least one game because of a Veigar, or Brand wants to support usually my side sometimes the enemy side. It's just flat out annoying I don't want to play against it, and I damn well don't want to play with it. As an adc main it's my job to farm up and ditch out as much damage end game, most mages kind of make me useless when they are supporting. Even Lux right now, sometimes Morgana it's retarded, like shit Redemption could of saved my life, give me a shield from locket, oh got stun by ashe, use {{item:3222}} and before well just get this {{item:3139}} I will get this if an enemy is fed, like a fn ashe or something someone with hard cc, but if we're even I want damage the most damage I can get I rather bloodthirster shit, so support should pick up items to help assist me and the rest of the team, we have mages albeit in bronze everybody wants to play assassin but still we already have that let's not give them more of a reason to just build flat mr then resist all your damage making u useless.....I'm just saying, I play Morgana, but I play her as a support with the intention of supporting, if my adc is getting locked down np take this just saying there are options.
: It's easy to get out of bronze
It depends a lot on role im an adc main support secondary.
: I went on a massive winstreak and went from B5 to B3 placements. Than I went on a massive loss streak and have dropped back to B5. I can carry my games and often do but when I do the system pairs me up with toxic and underperforming players. Escaping bronze isn't impossible but it requires constant carrying
> [{quoted}](name=monoscape,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sTJolTfz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-17T16:59:03.552+0000) > > I went on a massive winstreak and went from B5 to B3 placements. > Than I went on a massive loss streak and have dropped back to B5. > > I can carry my games and often do but when I do the system pairs me up with toxic and underperforming players. > > Escaping bronze isn't impossible but it requires constant carrying No you don't have to carry every game, the trick is to help your team carry you......know your role, if you aren't adc, you need to help your adc ditch out the damage, protecting your adc, no this isn't just the support's job. The reason smurfs love playing assassins is simply because of a team's lack of coordination and leaving their adc to fend for themselves. A good team that spends the game protecting their adc is more likely to win team fights, team fights help push objectives. When you got a lead don't get cocky one end game fight could cost you the whole game no matter how much of an advantage you have in items, if you are all dead, your nexus is free for the taking. The most important part explain to your teammates, 2 deaths if you are 2 deaths behind your enemy laner, don't try to engage, jungler shouldn't even try ganking this lane anymore. Your opponent is now fed, you don't want to give your enemy more kills best thing you can do is farm under turret call mia and wait till mid game and hope your other 2 lanes did better.
Rioter Comments
: I'd say it would be a good idea, especially because your roles are the two bot lane roles. When I mained support, I found my fe games as an ADC a very helpful perspective to help me play support better, so it's good to know both sides of the same lane.
> [{quoted}](name=Baron Barian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hi5OtnJK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-13T10:22:22.783+0000) > > I'd say it would be a good idea, especially because your roles are the two bot lane roles. When I mained support, I found my fe games as an ADC a very helpful perspective to help me play support better, so it's good to know both sides of the same lane. Yeah and I don't think it should dimishm my skills either, because it's every other game.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Azadethe (NA)
: How about when an adc is too passive? No offense.... this happens in all lanes and all you can do is to farm out and try to carry them. It also could be...... that you're too aggressive of an adc.
> [{quoted}](name=Azadethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qtMA5jtl,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-13T02:31:33.479+0000) > > How about when an adc is too passive? No offense.... this happens in all lanes and all you can do is to farm out and try to carry them. > > It also could be...... that you're too aggressive of an adc. I wouldn't consider myself aggressive I'm opportunistic, if I hit my q perfect as miss fortune, im hitting e and im going ham if they stay, tristana hit e if i get 2 autos Im ready to jump on you, ashe volley couple of autos if my q pops and you aren't running, you as good as dead, twitch i pop a couple autos on you and you aren't backing up im q w right away and im finishing you off........But I don't just go after an enemy ill cs, ill play safe and try to position for the opportunity to kill the enemy laner if it arises......
Azadethe (NA)
: How about when an adc is too passive? No offense.... this happens in all lanes and all you can do is to farm out and try to carry them. It also could be...... that you're too aggressive of an adc.
> [{quoted}](name=Azadethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qtMA5jtl,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-13T02:31:33.479+0000) > > How about when an adc is too passive? No offense.... this happens in all lanes and all you can do is to farm out and try to carry them. > > It also could be...... that you're too aggressive of an adc. When I'm support I rather have a passive adc then being an adc and having a passive support, why because when I'm adc, if my support is too passive I'm going to eventually get zoned out from cs and force to farm under tower.......but with a passive adc, I can still push as a support I could still poke safely I can force them to back off while as an adc, if I poke too hard I'm dead, as a support I have cc the enemy adc should fear me a bit.....if they don't usually I take a shit ton of health from them, and sometimes I give my adc more confidence in the process.
: Generally feel like adc/support should try to match each other in passivity/agro-ness. Ideally natural tendencies will match, but lacking that try to meet in the middle, and if that doesn't work just sigh and play their game, and embrace the farm under tower life until jg intervenes and/or laning phase ends.
> [{quoted}](name=Mysticman89,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qtMA5jtl,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-13T02:16:40.898+0000) > > Generally feel like adc/support should try to match each other in passivity/agro-ness. Ideally natural tendencies will match, but lacking that try to meet in the middle, and if that doesn't work just sigh and play their game, and embrace the farm under tower life until jg intervenes and/or laning phase ends. the problem is im getting pushed to my tower from enemy support Braum, Nautilus, Brand, while my support just throws her E around and never hits her snares cough *Lux* it's like annoying, I'm like your lux force them back, like I've had like 5-my last 7 supports are playing Lux and I'm getting my ass whooped! Or Zoe, oh that one sucked, like where than tanky supports why can't I get a Braum, or a Thresh, shit I settle for Morgana aoe comes in handy......no I got Lux missing every fucking snare........or the worst only snaring the enemy tanky support. Why can't I get Taric, or Sona......nope just Lux, which I wouldn't mind if the wench would land a fn snare........or her aoe slow shit auto the miss fortune just hit her once make her back off the minion line a bit so I can farm a bit.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Or how about vote to kick? Been asking for that shit for years.
> [{quoted}](name=MonkeyMadness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cTMRro2Q,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-09-15T21:32:15.292+0000) > > Or how about vote to kick? Been asking for that shit for years. My issue I don't feel I should have to play against brand or veigar as an adc low cello completely unfair match
: So much fucking bullshit game
Its irritating cuz i know how to trade farm and got pretty good at baiting skill shots from thresh and blitzcrank and with most supports regardless of who they are I can lane or at the very least go even but add in these stupid ass mages and its almost an automatic loss for me. I find it hard to keep even cuz unlike sona q or tactic stun attempts I can survive somewhat but brand one ability and I'm forced to half fucking health at level 1 or 2
Colte (NA)
: i'd rather go up against brand supports than having 11 death gragas, 7 death cassiopeia, orianna rage quitter on my team 10 minutes in... {{sticker:sg-janna}}
> [{quoted}](name=Colte,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mvtXb4gk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-11T06:36:39.475+0000) > > i'd rather go up against brand supports than having 11 death gragas, 7 death cassiopeia, orianna rage quitter on my team 10 minutes in... > > {{sticker:sg-janna}} That can be any champion in this game that sounds more like players. Brand is a fucking cancer at support in low ello mainly due to a jungle not understanding that brand Annie veigar shouldn't be treated like a typical support. You have to camp the bot lane or they will at the very least zone out your adc. Brand with his pillar of flame that has zero to no skill. Annie tibbers Stun. Veigar event horizon. They are very powerful and will punish you for attempting to trade and or farm even if the player themselves are bad.
VvVVvV (NA)
: Its not just the items tho.....Lux supports literally try to take every kill.......Lux and the ADC can be almost full health and soon as the enemy gets low enough you better believe shes going to ult them even if the adc is in range and needs just 1 or 2 autos to finish them off. Hell, some even flash to get the last auto in. I really dont care what items a Lux support builds as long as they have a support item that allows warding and they dont take kills they dont need to.
> [{quoted}](name=VvVVvV,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0QT5VNjj,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-04-11T05:31:08.888+0000) > > Its not just the items tho.....Lux supports literally try to take every kill.......Lux and the ADC can be almost full health and soon as the enemy gets low enough you better believe shes going to ult them even if the adc is in range and needs just 1 or 2 autos to finish them off. Hell, some even flash to get the last auto in. I really dont care what items a Lux support builds as long as they have a support item that allows warding and they dont take kills they dont need to. Or, has the lowest amount of assists, vision score, and on top of that least amount of deaths. They just sit back wait till an enemy is low than ult! Get in trouble shield themselves drop their slow and snare, ult! Doesn't matter anyways 3 game losing streak and I'm probably headed back to Bronze V now. Most one sided match I could of imagine, Karthus, Volibear, Miss Fortune, Shyvana, and a fucking Brand support......God I hate Brand support, and all the fucking apcs that are playing bot now. In bronze it's the worst because nobody knows what to do against a mage at bot lane, it's simple Brand has no real cc outside of his q which is truly his only skill shot he has and it's kind of hard to land in comparison to blitzcrank and such, so what to do, well, camp the fuck out of bot lane, then you don't target the adc, you target the fucking mage, kill the fucking mage over and over and over, and remind him of why it's good to actually play a support champion.......then all chat and said hey if you would of play nami you might of been able to get away.
Rioter Comments
: I really hate support Lux
It's not so much about what she builds, it's more about the fact that's she's not building for the game, she's building to be an apc regardless of what the team needs, or how I'm doing, I'm fed, I'm going to want to take a bit more risks to push my team to victory, i don't need an apc at bot lane, I need someone that's going to support me and help me win the game.
: I really hate support Lux
I can't tell you how many times I've lost a game because of an apc playing bot lane with me, it's not fun, when any supportive item could of been the difference between me living and dying. I honestly didn't even see her use her shield till mid game, it's like kind of sad, her shield is very strong when used correctly and like ashe's volley, at first long cd you points into it it's becomes less of a cooldown problem.
: Honestly though, people should be allowed to choose their own path on how they will support. Dealing damage is a way to support as well as it provides extra pressure. Moreover, if you notice that your support is building more damage then you should adapt your play to their build. Trying to control someone's actions (something which you have no control over) will just give you unnecessary tilt and yes, worrying about what they are building is trying to control it. This means playing careful and avoiding unnecessary risks because your support clearly did not build for buffing/debuffing you.
> [{quoted}](name=Ragnola,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0QT5VNjj,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-11T04:09:19.974+0000) > > Honestly though, people should be allowed to choose their own path on how they will support. Dealing damage is a way to support as well as it provides extra pressure. Moreover, if you notice that your support is building more damage then you should adapt your play to their build. Trying to control someone's actions (something which you have no control over) will just give you unnecessary tilt and yes, worrying about what they are building is trying to control it. > > This means playing careful and avoiding unnecessary risks because your support clearly did not build for buffing/debuffing you. But when I have a lux that started doran's ring, then went and starting farming the lane, took half the cs, and we didn't get kills, for a little bit instead I left lane under 100 cs and no xeal for team fights, the 2 kills I could of got lux made a snare I came around needed one more auto, she auto killed them they had no chance of getting away, bard I start going ham on him cuz he missed his stun on me, one more auto lux ults and kills him, doesn't get a gold item, end game, she did a lot of damage, had the least amount of deaths, and the least amount of assists I still manage to out dps her, but my damage was a lot lower than it could of been if I would of had a support more dedicated to supporting me rather than feeding themselves. We almost lost because of my weak laning phase, after laning phase I need my damage item with is infinity edge/essence reaver, then a xeal to start building my runann's hurricane, instead I had no xeal and had to build spirit visage to protect myself from a fizz ult.......we won the game, I think in large parts to me being able to prioritize but still it sucked. And it's not the first time, anytime I see a Lux, my first and only worry is are they going to support or are they going to try to steal the show, the second one primary making me useless.....I might as well sit at the fountain. If you want to support dodge, but if you chose to support and you for an ap Lux fine cool Idc, please go into the match with the mindset of being a support not being an apc.
Ediarai (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=creatureplex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OxtuikWU,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-11T01:57:46.190+0000) > > I think the biggest issue is I don't have all the time in the world to play so a loss hurts me a lot more than someone that gots all day to play. Yeah, I can understand that. On the chat issues, I would just say that whenever you do need to say something, be as polite as humanly possible. Well not TOO polite, but maybe change the wording to something like "remember to peel for me please" and that's it. It's true that you can't carry by yourself, but just try to do your job to the best of your ability and don't be too aggressive during the laning phase because, in that phase of the game, the support's doing most of the work.
> [{quoted}](name=Ediarai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OxtuikWU,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-04-11T02:05:14.799+0000) > > Yeah, I can understand that. On the chat issues, I would just say that whenever you do need to say something, be as polite as humanly possible. Well not TOO polite, but maybe change the wording to something like "remember to peel for me please" and that's it. It's true that you can't carry by yourself, but just try to do your job to the best of your ability and don't be too aggressive during the laning phase because, in that phase of the game, the support's doing most of the work. Yeah I will admit I can be rude sometimes it's just some of this stuff is like second nature to me, ward here, ward there, vision ward here, death timers, map awareness, a lot of the times I rarely see the jungler ward at all and top lane sometimes wards his little bush area, support wards sides bushes and likes to put the ward in river bush instead of close to dragon pit where I want him to put it. Center wards sometimes, and ultimately almost nobody buys control wards. Not even against stealth......
: Getting tilted I need help!
My win rate is 65%, it used to be 83% so it's dropped, and my mmr rating is now 984 the average of someone in my division with my points is 961 also playing against teams overall harder than what I was playing at the beginning as when i first starter on average i was playing against teams that were around 950 and now everyone is around 1100 mmr rating
: Getting tilted I need help!
I think the biggest issue is I don't have all the time in the world to play so a loss hurts me a lot more than someone that gots all day to play.
Ediarai (NA)
: If you want, you can add my main account, which is this one, if you have any questions that need answering if I'm on. Hopefully, my advice will prove to be useful. On weekdays, I'm on at ~8-9 PM, and on weekends I'm mostly on in the evening and at night. My time zone is Eastern Daylight Time (EDT)
> [{quoted}](name=Ediarai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OxtuikWU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-11T01:35:36.051+0000) > > If you want, you can add my main account, which is this one, if you have any questions that need answering if I'm on. Hopefully, my advice will prove to be useful. On weekdays, I'm on at ~8-9 PM, and on weekends I'm mostly on in the evening and at night. My time zone is Eastern Daylight Time (EDT) I wouldn't say I try to give advice unless I get asked which I have, but I can't carry by myself if I'm adc, people are gunning for me, if I start doing well I start pissing people off so saying stuff like hey guys if you don't keep these assassins off me, the big lead I had is going to disappear real quick......
: Honestly if you're low bronze just worry about getting better. You have nothing to lose. I was there when I started this season and there aren't too many good adc players down there because it is hard role (for me anyway) but if you can get good at adc, position well and carry then you will for sure move up
> [{quoted}](name=NuclearNick007,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OxtuikWU,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-11T01:21:55.441+0000) > > Honestly if you're low bronze just worry about getting better. You have nothing to lose. I was there when I started this season and there aren't too many good adc players down there because it is hard role (for me anyway) but if you can get good at adc, position well and carry then you will for sure move up I'm trying but I do my teammates not to feed, I need to tell them sometimes, don't chase, fuck that Gangplank he did some fancy shit, he deserved to get away let's get this fucking tower. But no they proceed to chase him all the way back to his base then die.......and we can't push furter cuz gangplank is still alive and he has backup now :( Or we have 5 players they send 2 we're all low health but we can take the turret and sacrifice a member for a turret, no they all retreat so we get nothing from winning the team fight.....:(
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creatureplex

Level 60 (NA)
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