Potchikir (EUW)
: then {{item:3146}} {{item:3030}} {{item:3027}} are defensive items
Eternity is not defensive. It's cost mitigation. Any damage you take to gain mana gives negligible returns when that mana is used to restore health. It's overall focus is mitigating cost and thus falls more under utility. The effect is not a positive net gain. Works very similar to Tear items in this regard. Health on the other hand is a defensive stat. Which makes the mage items both offense and defense. It's not necessarily the best of focus though. Health on many items gains compounded defense when it is paired with defensive stats. Value is multiplicative in terms of how it's gauged. Generally these two items can be more considered offense or defense based more on the items you buy after them. However both items individually do not lose the dual-spec. Gunblade, defense through offense. Spellvamp is literally the same category as Lifesteal in this respect. Lifesteal is a defensive stat that scales with offense stats. To be effective, it is placed on OFFENSIVE ITEMS. It is still a defensive choice when compared against Infinity Edge for example. It does not suddenly become more or less offense/defense simply because you choose to ignore that it has some. The items it's placed on are generally more offense-based, however they provide benefits of defensive nature through that offensive focus.
Rioter Comments
PhRoXz0n (NA)
: AP Items Request for Balance Thoughts
Personal request: {{item:3027}} Currently is just a stat-stick. Needs a definitive unique spin compared to it's options. An option is to make it's core design around "Eternity". Eternity - Conceptually it's flawed in that it's scaling, but capped. The cap is set ridiculously low and mana costs/cooldowns from mage-to-mage do not really justify it's design. Exceptions are champs like Anivia, whose ultimate triggers it faster on that by-the-tick frequency, but even that, stacked with Spirit Visage is not ridiculous mana>health sustain. Side note/mention: Morello's should definitely not be the only mana option. It's too cost effective with no competing options. It is necessary for applying that AoE healing reduction despite it's threshold for application, so that's a design concern I find alarming.
: I feel like Zhoyas is the reason mages can't have better AP defense items.
Also anyone saying Lifesteal items are not defensive. You're wrong. They are by definition "sustain", which by definition is a defensive option. It's like restoring a shield perpetually. (except that's your life bar) It's a defense that scales with offense though, that's what mingles the issue.
: I feel like Zhoyas is the reason mages can't have better AP defense items.
Honestly, Zhonya's is bad in design itself I think. It's literally a button you press for everyone to do nothing for it's duration. There's of course strategy with a "wait" button, but it's not healthy in that you're not engaging with ANY activity for that period. Likewise, your opponent/teammates cannot engage or interact with you for that same duration.
: I mostly play Kayn, Karma, and Eve
Kayn and Eve point to a risk-taking personality. You enjoy the risk and reap the reward. Risk-takers tend toward more social/cooperative traits too. This manifests in why Karma is your third. While this doesn't mean you'll always get on with people, you probably enjoy interacting in a healthy way with them rather than just shutting them out, but with Karma you can either do that or play that riskier/edgier gameplay if it's not an option. If you believe psychology anyways.
: Riot finally made the decision of what Aatrox gameplay is going to be like... About time lol
The best part of playing the current iteration of Aatrox right now is loudly announcing: > FLOPPY SWORD MODE ENGAGE To be fair, the whip-mode of it is not very whip-like.
Barkley (NA)
: Can we, as a community, drop this whole "Holier than thou" attitude?
This toilet is also gold: https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/fashion/daily/2018/01/25/25-gold-toilet.nocrop.w710.h2147483647.jpg
: Oh hey look I won lane
I guess the real question would be "What could you have done to impact other lanes in a health way?" Usually it's a bit more, but in-the-moment really never makes it seem like a potential option. Personally, I sometimes feel the same way about how I can't impact a game past laning phase. Depending on the champ, I usually can swing a good teammate into a positive streak, even if we lose anyway. It's a 5v5 game. It's not a 1v5 game. Everyone has to really hit a bare minimal skill level to really win a game and if everyone isn't doing that, it's going to definitely be a loss or at least an uphill struggle.
: While I agree mages are currently a bit problematic, I think this has a lot to do with itemization rather than identity. You mentioned having no core tasks, but I believe that's false. They control the map. Being situated in the middle of the map means they can roam into jungle and such, plus they typically have better wave clear than assassins. So mages can push up and roam. Or something like Heimer or Ziggs controls the map not by roaming, but by putting out so much pressure in their lane that it draws resources towards them like jungle ganks and TP's to get back to lane. They are the primary beneficiaries of mid game team fights. I mean now days ADC do decent damage in the mid game, but very few champs can match the level of power in team fights something like a Orianna or Viktor can put out with a well played combo.
So what you're saying is that they should be roaming like the jungler? So what you're saying is that mages are the pushers? It's very contradictory. Here's the thing. A mage is supposed to: Burst, roam, CC, vision, protect, lane pressure, help secure monster objectives, push lanes, take lane objectives, poke, general map awareness, pressure, zone control... You're telling me that that is a focused clearcut set of tasks? While I'm not saying that in any given game, a player can't decide what they should be doing, there is significantly less focus than other roles engage with. They are supposed to be the swiss knife of gameplay according to a lot of the tasks they take on. All are team-beneficial, but you can't really actually tell me they have a primary unique goal. Right now, mages are not underpowered. That is definitely not what I'm saying. It's that they are expected to basically be coverage for their team without any value to their role as that or way to encourage that behavior.
Rioter Comments
: Why you should never consider the match to be over until it's actually over, in one image.
I've seen it happen, but depends on the team you're with. If they can't get their game together, it's not worth trying. Consistent bad gameplay without any outward attempt at improvement is not functionally going to turn around a game. There's a point in a game like this, that while you and they might stall, you will lose. On the other hand, balance doesn't feel like it should be visually appearing like this. It should visually dance around that baseline if the teams were really matched. At which point did the game turn around? 16:40 was the point when the gold turned around from a decline. Which item(s) were purchased at that moment would be an important consideration. (That's usually why the gold advantage switches, someone hadn't been purchasing their core items and gets a power spike when they finally do. Form change on Kayn also is a similar point in his design.)
: Did anyone else notice the sorc boots on Kayn build or is that a normal build?
Shadow Assassin Form deals magic damage during the initial few seconds of damaging. It's the same reason Corki is suggested to and sometimes builds them. It's more effective in some cases. Knowing when that is can be important.
: > [{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=J9urd9TE,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-01-18T20:13:08.493+0000) > > I respect them. > > I don't respect the champion (pretty braindead **in my opinion that you don't have to agree with!**), I respect the player. I think playing Janna at a decent level is relatively easy. Pressing E and R isn’t exactly hard. However, it’s very hard to play her perfectly. It’s more optimal now to put points into w early so you have to be rather skilled to win lane and carry by yourself. It’s pretty hard to have an amazing ult just because positioning with an ability that has a radius that large is hard. You want to heal your entire team while not dying (you’re very squishy) and synchronize it with things like redemption/locket/exhaust. Cancelling dashes with your Q is also hard, especially since the speed of casting Q initially has been reduced. A good Janna can make champions like {{champion:64}} and {{champion:154}} useless in team fights. Nevertheless, I’m glad you respect them in some way :)
> [{quoted}](name=Dont Ban Janna,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=J9urd9TE,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-01-18T20:19:00.139+0000) > > It’s pretty hard to have an amazing ult just because positioning with an ability that has a radius that large is hard. You want to heal your entire team while not dying (you’re very squishy)... Positioning has to consider all variables. 3 goals: Priority is peel, as a secondary Q peel may kill you, but if it saves someone more valuable, so be it. Secondary is isolation. While you're peeling, trying to push a single enemy into a vulnerable position. Finally is your heal and hitting allies who likely will benefit from it most (Ardent effect on your whole team is good). Really the healing is the last concern when I end up using Janna Ultimate. Though I'm not a Janna main, I do play her quite heavily enough to know that using her Ulti as an aggressive tool nets you more wins than as a defensive and passive tool.
: Detailed champion stats
The champion pages did have numbers at one point, but they broke them with every other patch and often stopped updating them. Probably something about remembering to update all information sources at the same time with the patch, but the direct game tie-in was very vague even then. Want to think about something even more elusive than a champion's stats/impact? Pets. Try finding where it says exactly how fast Heimerdinger's Turrets fire, how much damage they'll do per hit and how their health/defenses scale. It's on the wiki, but even there and in-game, certain elements are elusive and not visible. The wiki vaguely references that they scale, but even in-game, the turrets scale weird and not quite as reflected by the wiki. Placed turrets do not scale with a skill ranking, however newly placed turrets will update with a new stat set. If you buy AP, the output isn't necessarily reflected on current turrets, but only newly placed ones. It's really more vague than it should be for a core skill.
: I think one of it's issues was that prior to it's slow nerfs, it was too good for champs who applied it repeatedly, it left no chance whatsoever for any form of escape. What if it was a stronger slow that players could build up an immunity to over time. Let's say rylais now stacks to 10, and each stack reduces its effectiveness by 10%. (or some other amount if you'd like.) At max stacks, they get the Brittle debuff, making the next hard CC more potent.
The enemy finds it easier to escape the more you hit them. While the brittle is interesting (and defines Ornn in compositions right now), the outcome bluntly is counter-intuitive of the gameplay that encourages fighting.
: > [{quoted}](name=SwiftKitten88,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lAkwKT7Q,comment-id=0039,timestamp=2018-01-16T15:06:14.916+0000) > > revert it to its last state in 6.23, add a 5 second internal cooldown per target.. > > done... honestly riot this was simple as fuck... I'd be down for something like this in conjunction with shifting its power from AP to Health while giving it a better build path. It's always been best as a battlemage and AP tank/juggernaut item, so it's be nice to see it tuned for them. {{item:3116}} = {{item:1058}} +{{item:1011}} + 450g (2700g) +65 AP +475 Health Unique passive -- Icy: Damaging abilities and pet attacks Slow affected units. Single target spells: 35% slow for 1.5 seconds Area of Effect: 30% slow for 1 second Damage over Time: 17.5% slow for 0.5 seconds Unique passive: Slows from your champion are 15% stronger. This effect can not increase slows beyond 99%.
but... {{champion:26}} Why can't we make them go in reverse?
: What's Rylais' power fantasy?: A CC Item Who should be its intended users?: Anyone who wants to slow its target What stats would you suggest?: same as it is right now but a little cheaper. 100 gold or so. What passive/active?: No actives. Passive: AP attacks slow the intended target by **20%**. If the target is hit by subsequent spell hits from the **rilay user** during the 20% slow...it will stack more slows until it peaks at 40%. **3% extra slow per spell hit**. Damage over time spells (morgs soil, singed poison) will instead stack 3% slow every second, also capping at 40%. What balance problems might your version of the item have?: None.
Balance problems peak with the difference between rapid-fire skills and single-cast, long cooldown skills. Champions who need to keep you in range will likely want to have the stronger slow to keep you there while their cooldowns are in effect, while the champions with rapid-fire skills often are about hitting fast and a lot, stacking quicker. The disparity created by this was never "fixed" by Rylai's last rework. Take Zyra, each plant counts as a single spellcast for effects like this, not DoT. Lighting up a target with 4 plants layers an immediate 29%, then capping at 40% on their second shot. For Zyra, she's about CC and zone control already and this layers her power in a very strong way.
Vekkna (NA)
: I like the stat stick version with 100 AP and 400 HP. Passive could be the place to add back Spooky Ghosts, which are described as "icy." And we all know that crystal scepters conveniently double as phylacteries. =)
{{item:3027}} is really a problem in terms of purpose overlap with Rylai's. As a stat-stick itself, it means choice-wise, Rylai's is about the slow rather than the stats. They probably will need to tweak a lot of health/AP combo items to really make things build a bit more readily and cohesively. The side effects are the defining point, otherwise, it might be better to stack Warmog's and Deathcap and ignore the other item stats.
: "Moving and casting spells causes you to become Energized. When your stacks reach 100, the next spell you cast slows the target (1/3 effectiveness for AoE.) This effect works with Luden's Echo or Runic Echoes."
Objectively, I don't think this is quite the direction it should take. When you want that slow, it can fire on a minion or other target and need to recharge. It should be tied into a conditional, but not one with longer-term charging. Also important, since health stacking counters mages heavily, is until they rework Liandry's, it needs to reliably stack with the health shred. Ultimately I would potentially suggest something like scaling on the slow: Base slow: 15% + (Scaling goes here), so that champions who Riot don't want using it, don't slow as well. It doesn't have to scale off raw stats (like 5% for every 100 AP), but could instead scale off maybe something closer to {{item:3742}}, where the charge is a greater slow and the overall slow applies a weaker version. This then opens potentials for champions who want/need that great slow opener, but also need that sustained slow effect, while also shifting the power budget of the item's cost to allow for more raw stats.
: I actually got placed at the same rank I was at last season.
I would guess with some hard work and luck you might fall higher than your expectations. Unfortunately, some players are distributed higher than they should be, so it's really a struggle to climb. Good luck on your way up.
: DoTs are good, they delay his healing keeping him a bit more suppressed in-lane, but inevitably, you probably will spend too much effort trying to out-trade him when his passive will simply overwhelm the trades you might try to make. Focus on farming and "incidental" damage where you can get CS and hit him at the same time. Don't let him engage, a good Garen knows when he'll survive, so he'll only engage when he knows he'll probably win. Try and get with your Jungler to pin him down.
> [{quoted}](name=crzymdscntst,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ExB90jKY,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-01-17T02:57:41.321+0000) > > DoTs are good, they delay his healing keeping him a bit more suppressed in-lane, but inevitably, you probably will spend too much effort trying to out-trade him when his passive will simply overwhelm the trades you might try to make. Focus on farming and "incidental" damage where you can get CS and hit him at the same time. > > Don't let him engage, a good Garen knows when he'll survive, so he'll only engage when he knows he'll probably win. Try and get with your Jungler to pin him down. As to an alternative pick in top lane. I've seen and been told Heimerdinger makes a good counter, since Garen is melee and finds it hard to engage. He can try killing turrets or engage on you, not both if you learn positioning with your turrets.
: Either Garen is too strong, or could someone PLEASE tell me what to do against him???
DoTs are good, they delay his healing keeping him a bit more suppressed in-lane, but inevitably, you probably will spend too much effort trying to out-trade him when his passive will simply overwhelm the trades you might try to make. Focus on farming and "incidental" damage where you can get CS and hit him at the same time. Don't let him engage, a good Garen knows when he'll survive, so he'll only engage when he knows he'll probably win. Try and get with your Jungler to pin him down.
: The odd thing isn't about not having enough keys. It's about having no problem getting chests. Inherently, it's not about playing good with any given champ. The most positive and game-influencing gameplay does not necessarily get you chests. If you play a champ with no regard to teamplay, you definitely can get a slightly more sizeable number of chests, but that doesn't mean you'll get honor. I get/got a key fragment every game or two once I hit Honor 5 and kept getting honored, then sometimes got capsules with 2 or more fragments. At 13 keys and 2 fragments, I've gotten an okay amount of chests, but fragments just keep raining down. I'm not saying you're not playing a champ well, only well in regards to how the system likes to score you. Nor am I saying you're playing dishonorably, only that people might not honor you as frequently as the system likes to give you the obnoxious amount of keys that some people are getting.
Also you'll probably get more honor for playing one champ really well repeatedly than all of them well enough for an S. ARAM is also good for honor, since the plays in certain games are randomly good enough to net you a full batch of honors.
: not enough keys :( and its going to get worse
The odd thing isn't about not having enough keys. It's about having no problem getting chests. Inherently, it's not about playing good with any given champ. The most positive and game-influencing gameplay does not necessarily get you chests. If you play a champ with no regard to teamplay, you definitely can get a slightly more sizeable number of chests, but that doesn't mean you'll get honor. I get/got a key fragment every game or two once I hit Honor 5 and kept getting honored, then sometimes got capsules with 2 or more fragments. At 13 keys and 2 fragments, I've gotten an okay amount of chests, but fragments just keep raining down. I'm not saying you're not playing a champ well, only well in regards to how the system likes to score you. Nor am I saying you're playing dishonorably, only that people might not honor you as frequently as the system likes to give you the obnoxious amount of keys that some people are getting.
: omg could you imagine a rapid fire Q whenever she throws one even more follow behind it scaling with level, basically a syndra R as a skillshot her W would allow her to get gunblade shards again her E would increase in size scaling with level (both the skillshot size and the AoE sleep zone size) her R would have increase range and she would always use her full ulti combo when possible
She can use your spells against you when you use them. So that would follow as her smiting you when you smited in her range. Her ultimate doesn't have to follow the rules in Doombots, she could just portal behind your tower, to multiple locations in succession or create duplicates portal points and appear from all at the same time to fire something. She could Redirect her Q multiple times for some weird curves or do some split-fire scenarios. Her E could have zones created when certain things happen, like a Q missing/landing. Either way, they could really go overboard and make a nightmare mode using just Zoe.
Terozu (NA)
: His old lore was that he killed his own parents as a child and experimented on himself. He was never as far as I know anything like Jeckyll and Hyde.
His old lore seemed to imply a lot that his visual appearance was not a constant. Big, beefy and dumb are more side effects of his current dosages. He was implied to be intelligent in his base state, despite his tendency to be a psychopath. In that regards, Jeckyll and Hyde. So I think the core thing is not necessarily what he is, but how they'll rewrite or even embellish that in his future designs. Gnar heavily reflects the Jeckyll and Hyde design (though more Hulk), so they would do good to distance him from that. EDIT: Though "Mundo go where he pleases" would be a good focus going forward I think. A psychopath scientist who doesn't care for boundaries.
: Malza R got nerfed hard, still 53% win rate.
One element that gives strength to Malz is his ability to waveclear, which is highly overlooked. Many games I've played and won/lost, the losing team lacked that focus. With Malz, it's purely incidental. This alone boosts his winrate beyond his core balance. As to his balance. His voidlings are overtuned on the power/spammability side. Getting multiple out fast should be about when you do it, not necessarily always being capable of doing it. When they do come out, they do a hefty chunk of potential damage, which when focused with a proper Malefic Visions, is very difficult to counteract those multiple targets without disengaging from Malz. These two things could use tweaks, not necessarily nerfs and I think he'd be manageable in many regards. Everyone has stated the concern with an uncleansable ulti and while that's a concern, the impact his ultimate is supposed to have is just that. The DPS portion of it is equally strong though and that's the problem. It's not a balance of CC OR damage, but instead CC AND damage.
Rioter Comments
: https://youtu.be/WK2EU9Od7c0 I didn't even feel good about this win. After 3:45 the game was already over. This sudden death meta is unsatisfying. The damage incentivizes early aggression and disincentivizes farming. One side or the other gets a double at 3-5 minutes in and the lane is over after that.
This game looked over from the start of this video. Red jungler was already aggressing into the river on the map. Either Scuttler or invading by the looks of it.The Nami missed a lot of bubbles. Not just a couple. This is important not because "oh no, she dun messed up", but because you didn't visibly put effort into actually moving when those bubbles fired in some of those cases. The Lucian really had somewhat bad positioning and both took too much early damage and aggro. The game was decided in matchup with semi-bad picks from players (in terms of how well they played them) and/or skill matchup of the match overall. There was probably some back/forth in other lanes/roles, but this is a visible matchmaking issue I see.
: I don't really base things of damage alone, but I get what you're saying. However, I don't reliably see Zoe work out in a way of supporting except when she gets around her W (utility aspect) first. Come late game I think she will get beat more often than one thinks but she could reliably roam around and become more of a nuisance. I could see ups and down of it working but I mostly think I see more downs than ups actually. At least I could try it one day and see the reflection of that. For now I do state my opinion as such.
I imagine she'll do much better based on the team composition. For example the sporadic nature of being paired with Bard might actually create some very interesting situations that would be hard to play against. Bard R> Zoe E> Zoe Q> Bard Q (The lockdown would be rage-inducing. Forget the damage.)
: True. Most of the time I did feel like her Q did most of the work and her W did absolutely nothing. Maybe because I was playing it wrong or whatever. I guess this was most of my excuse because I didn't play her enough or really hate the champion. Sure, I never had that kind of interest (after seeing her lore) but I did play her and she's pretty good at what she does. Maybe by then I say that I may play her more and maybe I would judge that correctly. I just don't feel it as much. I forgot about her E as well. She often relies on someone to fall into her trap and she can burst down that champion reliably. But that was not the point I was about to make as much as I wanted to. I mean, her Q can do so much damage as Zilean's bombs and burst them or do as much as one of Annie's spells, but in terms of reliability (which I was actually could have said from the beginning) I say Taliyah was still a better mage but I guess she's a different mage in general. I guess she's kinda better than Annie I would say. There.
E is WAY better on TT. Those long walls (primarily top walls) give her a really hilarious threat range when she's running bottom. A second out of lane to fire one off locks down the enemy laner. On the other hand, her E relies on the awareness of teammates, otherwise you lose a certain "OOMPH!" Most importantly is how it applies. It's TRUE DAMAGE. Basically. It's also really cool if you're support, since that damage feeds into your ally's ability to burst. Ideally it should be more impactful without the initial threat, but it's pretty beefed up and with a full-range Q, that's some pretty serious damage.
Werwar (EUW)
: Why Zoe's RNG is actually BAD RNG
I've had issues with it in normal gameplay. It's given me Youmuu's on TT 3 times in a row before. Two cleanse casts and 2 teleport casts in that same game. It did screw me over heavily that one match. (But the leaver on our team early on also didn't help.) Definitely changes the field depending.
: Free summoner spells definitely doesn't feel free to me. I consider Zoe worse than Taliyah because Zoe doesn't have that utility to support her playstyle and she could get punished for no good reason other than how well you play her or the trade within. Playing against Zoe, she doesn't have that much engage to her ability other than relying on that champion falling asleep in time to damage the champion heavily (clearly her design aspect). She doesn't quite have the cc unlike Annie or Leblanc and Taliyah can do so much more than those two. Like Taliyah, she can get punished heavily once she steps a foot in the wrong territory of her enemy, and there's nothing she can do about it. Yea, I think her W definitely needs a change somewhere for starters. I actually don't see anything wrong with her kit other than her W. {{champion:142}} {{champion:163}}
She relies on getting those casts because of her W activation damage. It shouldn't matter what those casts are, but that she can cast them.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: What do you mean "finally"? He's been doing well for a long time. Heimer's getting nerfed because his kit is stupid to deal with as a melee. Legit drop your ult turret and run in circles or pop stopwatch.
Turrets focus on target champions Heimerdinger auto-attacks or lands skillshots on, otherwise locking closest. Champions attacking Heim are sometimes ignored, but are supposed to be focused by turrets. Turret Stats: Health: 150 - 575 (based on level) (+ 1 - 40 (based on level)% AP) Armor: 10 - 80 (based on level) MR: 25 - 65 (based on level) Range: 525 Incoming damage modifier: 40% increased damage from Melee role melee champion basic attacks and turrets Here's where Melee gets confusing: Rockets spawn from slightly behind Heimerdinger (The opposite side from which they are moving toward.) This means, a retreating Heim will not overshoot, more likely full-blasting a chasing melee. Grenade: "SPEED: 1200" The closer you are, the easier it is for him to ping you with them. (Ez's Q speed is 2000 for example.) Factor these into the "Lasers charge on skillshots landing". That change alone made melee more heavily punished. Turrets are very easy to kill as a melee, definitely easier if you have ranged poke. The problem is that you sometimes have to know when to kill his turrets and when to go right for Heim. With the 20% movespeed bonus he gets around them, it's an easy pick earlier game. Kill his turrets, kill his ability to farm and kill his bonus. It lasts. Turret stock charge time: 20 seconds. 12 if he's got 40% CDR. It doesn't change with ranks. Kill his turrets late game and he might have charges still stocked up, but you could also have a ranged teammate or mage just AoE kill them with a poke or two, if you think they're that bad.
: to be fair.. {{item:3100}} is awesome atm... idk why u have that on the list. yes mages itemization is horrible atm. but overall it hasn't really gotten MUCH worse, although it certainly has gotten worse... its just ADC item has gotten so absurdly over-buffed to the extreme that mages are a joke. i mean sure the certain few mages that work well with the few decent item we have left are in an ok spot. but unless your champ has a kit can make good use of the few good items mages have left, you're SOL
To also be fair, I think that certain mages need better durability tools to let them get close enough to utilize Lich's Bane. Being in auto-attack range to use it is not a good thing for some of the champions that could utilize it pretty well.
Dasdi96 (NA)
: Mages right now are a shell of their former selves.
Yes and No. Individually, mages are in a fluctuating good/bad state. Items are really where they've been hit. It's been this way ever since they removed all mana regen itemization from mages. MAGES NEED TO SUSTAIN THEIR MANA. It's their core output. I've run out of mana a few times more lately than I have ever before. Meanwhile, other roles tend to have a certain wider access to tools. Tanks have a large amount of flat mana and low mana costs (with exceptions). ADCs are mana-heavy if you spam skills, but they have auto-attacks for dps and a significantly better set of items to compensate when they choose to be mana heavy. Junglers have blue and don't really share anymore unless they're ahead, since that literally wipes their experience and gold. Then you have supports with ALL THE MANA REGEN... who still run out of mana when they have to: > "OH GOD GOTTA SHIELD EVERYONE AGAIN, DEAR GOD WHY DID YOU GO INTO THAT AGAIN?! I HAVE 10 MANA WHAT DO I DO NOW!!?" (Early game Sona is a very good example of this. Fortunately, you can usually pace yourself against this, but it's still a problem when you need those skills RIGHT NOW.) It's a significant and distinctly problematic concern. It pairs with the other issue of CDR being predominant. There is a shift that focuses on more casts faster, but capped by your mana pool. Even Morello's is a joke in this regard, because you actually have to GET THE KILL/ASSIST to get the mana back. Now pair that with a very high cost itemization, some of the most costly items in the game. You are not able to buy the items you need at first because you need the ones that sustain you through your lane. Then after you get those and can finally buy the core items you do need, you end up behind in DPS. Latest-game, when you are fully itemized, you lack the ability to really get through the durability of champions who build very little of it. Here's the kicker: It's already been a thing that has come up, specifically in relation to manaless champions. They consistently become very difficult to balance because they can skip the mana items. Hence why most of them end up trashed or lacking just the right amount of power. Comparatively, they skip the sustain-gap and go right for the core itemization. So when core itemization gets tweaked for the better, they get broken. Until Riot addresses the sustain gap with tools to mitigate it, gameplay will be a swing in regards to how mages feel.
: Whats the chance of being autofilled from support to any other role
Autofill protection enables in solo and lower ranks on support picks. Meaning you almost never will be autofilled into anything else unless your second pick is "fill". Adding "fill" to any other slot gives you a much higher chance of being hit with just that. Higher ranked games, as supports become a bit more common, I'd say the autofill protection might not enable as often, since it's supposed to be based on what's popular in the games you're being queued for. (The support autofill protection also has a habit of forcing your first pick if you primary pick a different role, which also means alternating support and your main role if it's not support means you'll get your pick almost definitely every other game.)
Rioter Comments
WolfChases (EUNE)
: Am I the only one who thinks Warwick is actually one of, if not the most balanced champion in game?
Warwick is pretty fairly balanced kit-wise. Health items as a stat build however create a distinct issue on champions like WW though, so that's definitely something to note in terms of his overall balance. He has a good toolset that melds together nicely, but his sustain, mobility and CC combo create a distinctly hard-to-pin feel. When combo'd with tankiness, those traits make him seem ideal, but that mobility becomes the issue. If he's a dps, then the durability through his sustain becomes the issue. It's overall a meddled issue of item balance that attributes perhaps a higher average power when he gets going. He's not a problem until he gets them in many cases after all.
Börky (NA)
: Zoe's fun, but this is just unfair...
Her Q is really a problem point, because it doesn't take 30 shots to be good, it only takes 1. A single good shot... this sounds like: {{champion:53}}. That single game-changing shot can make her either irrelevant til it lands OR it will only take a single good shot to change the overall slant of the game in her teams favor. It doesn't matter any counterplay or otherwise, only that one non-ultimate spell shouldn't change the combat phase too heavily.
GigglesO (NA)
: "Unpopularity of monsters"
The more exotic and difficult the kit is too learn, the less people learn and stick with those kits. Nobody wants to learn a champ that won't be improved. Hecarim is plenty popular when mobility is more readily available, but his mana costs have literally murdered him. He needs to be played well and start his snowball before he actually can do anything, something other champs wind up to quicker. Aurelion Sol has a really high positioning skillcap, but a very low engagement factor. Congratulations, 75% of your kit is just moving around. People either can't play him well or don't enjoy the gameplay. Skarner has been trashcanned for a while. They really never knew what to actually do with him and when they killed his AP and E sustain on top of that, it was just not fun anymore. Homogenized to obsolete. Doesn't fit the mold, so they cut off pieces until it fit and there was nothing left to enjoy heavily. Rek'Sai sees gameplay, but ultimately is in that same category as Skarner, pieces cut off until they fit. They fixed her somewhat in many aspects, but something is still missing. Namely as a juggernaut with assassin abilities, she lacks the burst AND durability, being neither. Itemization is a big factor. Longer windup than others require for her mid-late game. Rammus is Armortank. AD is meta, Rammus is meta. Armor Pen gets tweaked to make armor irrelevant, Rammus is not meta. It's a swing and miss over and over. He's still good, but needs the right enemy and/or team composition, thus, less picks. He's OK. Kog relies on a tanky team with peel. Of course he's not popular unless he can output his dps reliably. He's otherwise too quick to squish. Cho... ha. Ha. Ha. He's popular because health stacking is powerful. He's "meta", so picked when he's not banned, and it helps that he's got 2 heavy CC skills and an execute. Anivia and Vel both have simple to execute kits as mid casters. It's very hit or miss. If mages can output dps, these two are just as qualified as any.
: "Klepto is the problem" (Ezreal)
Klepto is A problem, but not THE problem. Klepto is too random to be something plannable or counterplayable. It gives upwards of 2k gold worth of stats and raw gold (about 700 gold and consumables whose stat value is worth something.) If used properly, it's VERY strong. On the other hand, anyone who can proc on-hits with a spellcast is going to see a similar result, Ez being the most broken due to the range on his Q and cast time. Fizz, MF and GP might see strong results if utilized with the rune, but are decidedly less abusable versions of it.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Kloqdq (NA)
: I feel like it's an oversight for them. Since you can as a melee nab 10 gold every couple seconds while just gaining passive gold and mana regen, it makes it super appealing for a melee who can poke a lot or even just a mage (Even if the gold is lowered). GP is stupidly broken with it since it allows you to have some mana regen and stack gold quickly in the early game for a low price. Plus you still do get the passive to activate, just at a slower rate so Mages can like this item if you know you are going to harass an enemy a lot in lane. It will just snowball you faster. Tanks like Ornn or Galio could also like this since they will like the regen and the bandit. It just looks really good for laners and that's why I am willing to call it an oversight on their part. Relic and Coin I haven't tried but I can imagine them being pretty good, especially relic on tanks. You are giving up raw stats early though so it's risky to grab but the pay out on some champions can be REALLY good.
Try Coin. Passive mana restore coins in-lane make your zone pretty safe. Better if you're Ornn since you basically never have to leave lane except for teleport ganks. If you get zoned and miss CS, the coin compensates heavily.
: For people who do not like the new Runes Reforged system.
It feels like a lot of assassin types got options, but then Mages got shafted. The biggest ups for mages in the runes are: **Sorcery Tree: ** Ultimate Hat - 15% CDR on your ultimate. Manaflow Band - Sustain, pity it's on a 60 second timer so you can actually trigger it after a back or somewhere it's not relevant. It's also weighted against Ultimate Hat so, it's not really an option. **Domination Tree** Ravenous Hunter - Oh look, spellvamp. Basically. 15% Spellvamp maxed out. Remember when characters broke from Spellvamp? And that's about it. Those are the ones that look good for mages. Why didn't I include other things? Well, basically, you can break down any bonus as 2 things, extra damage, which we already had in greater supply from prior runes/masteries OR stat sticks, specifically more AP. The benefits are negligable. Since there's been a nerf to MR across the board, mages basically are stronger overall, but they still don't have any new tools that make their job (what is their job again?) more overall cohesive. They also are squishier to a point and Assassins deal more burst, ADC deal more burst, Tanks deal more burst. Mages don't burst. Want to break down mage burst: 30-100 (+0.2 AP) Meteor, because Aery is less damage. Cooldown 20-8 seconds (-% based on spells hit). Congratulations on that 60-70% accuracy meteor. At level 18 with 500 AP, it will deal, 200 damage... if it hits. 30-60 magic damage Scorch. Cooldown 20 seconds. 12-30 True damage Cheap Shot, while enemy is impaired. AP max potential total from runes: Absolute Focus: 40 AP (When above 70% health. Don't get poked.) Waterwalking: 30 AP in the river. Sorcery Primary Tree: 25 AP. Eyeball Collection: 30 AP when maxed out. Best case burst scenario: Maybe 100-200 damage. Scorch is weighted against Waterwalking. Of course, your difference in itemization shifts that higher and sustained fights lend to more potential dps, but you don't have that time in a comparative fight. Gathering Storm was avoided for one big reason: Games don't last that long. Scaling even 100 AP into the average ability does not lend to very noticable results. 1:1 scaling on mages is rare and you get more damage on average from Scorch, which can potentially secure last hits in some instances. If the game lasted way longer, then sure it's good, but otherwise, it lends nothing.
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