zed Q 6 second cd, E 5 to 3 sec cd; talon Q 8 to 6 sec CD, W 9 sec CD. their core build (including Maw of Malmortius) all have CDR, & yasuo Q & E has super short CD. are the AD assassins really have long CD on their spells comparing to the AP ones?! assassins are meant to be killing single targets, but what draws you back from thinking mages shouldn't get grevious wounds so early? most champions do not have healing effect on their kit, so having grevious wounds on them would not hurt them. so why is it bad to have a 800-1000 AP item with shitty stat that has grevious wounds?

then would u build the fking executioner or bamble vest on ahri?! or should the fking balance team fix this?!

if u play against a normal mid or top other than mundo, trundle, vlad, would u rush luden, archangel for more mana & cdr, rod of ages for hp, hextech revolver into photobelt for fizz ekko for that extra revolver dmg, gap closer & wave clear, gunblade for lb, kat, akali for that extra burst, or would u build morello instead of all those items? morello is good as 2nd item in normal & most situations, the other items are so good as 1st item against morello to give other utilities.

do u really get my point? why AD champ only needs 800 to get grevious wounds, tank only need 1000 gold, meanwhile AP need 3k gold! when u have 3k gold, mundo, trundle, vlad, raka already at lv 6 at least, so they would have ult.

do u think zed, talon has less burst than ori?

is it fair for AP champ to buy executioner which he can't build anything from it? or should the balance team change the item so the problem is solved? is it the problem for players? or is it the problem for balance team?

so i voice it out in here, & hope balance team would read it. As riot says balance team would read this forum.

gragas can also heal, but not as much as vlad does. but when u play as mid, & they have a mundo top, trundle jg, annie mid, u may still want to have grevious wounds because u need it in teamfight, & others may not have grevious wounds item.

> Your first example: AD tanks, Divers and Assassins, are the least likely to need GW in the first place. And once again, those are bursty people, not DPS. So, the AD's who'd need GW the most are the DPS. Sooooo, what's your point other than nitpicking a single statement? I'd buy Executioners on Sion, once in a blue moon, against maybe one or two specific champions (Mundo, Maokai) and that's early game only, when I'm not doing burst To an enemy where GW is required. tanks like sion can rush bamble vest, which is 1000 gold. it has grevious wounds. > Becauseeeeeeeee, Mages (the majority of them) DO BURST, and if you're trying to tell that an AD Tank or Diver can do Mage level burst early game as they can, than I'm sorry, but that's just not right. Assassins, yeah, but the only opponent they'd really need a GW for would be later in the game if there's a healer, or if they're laning against a Vlad. do u know how mundo be able to fight vs mages in teamfight with his ult? he tanks dmg, walks away, pop his ult, then 3-5 seconds later, he can walk back into the frontline again because he regens so much hp. mundo is a counter pick for AP champ other than late game ADCs, because the abilities like ori are burst in 1 second, using QRW, then she has no dmg to follow unless she uses her auto. if mundo survives that QRW, he can walk back to pop his ult, then he re-enter the fight 3-5 seconds later, & ori can do nothing about it unless she has grevious wounds, because the 2nd QW rotation won't be enough to kill mundo. > If you're complaining about the odd match up in top lane, like Lissandra vs Mundo, well personally I'd tell you to go fuck yourself, get your mages outta top lane, I wanna melee up there. that's why i suggest to have a shitty 800-1100 gold AP item to have grevious wounds in order for liss to be playable in that lane. blind pick an AP top or blind pick against vlad is not a very rare situation. The game should not forbidden players to blind pick AP champs because there is no item to counter healing champ unless u have 3000 gold in bank. > Finally, and this is a big one, Mages actually get a REALLY good item early game with their Grevious Wounds rush. I don't know about ADC items after the update they're getting, but buying Thornmail or Mortal Reminder as a first, is a really bad idea, since those items need others to help them do their job. ADs and Tanks can get the GW easier, because it's something to help them through a bad match up, as they go back to building something better/something that they need to do their job well. u can sit on bamble vest or executioner & continue your normal build path. it's just 800-1000 gold delay. it won't hurt u much. however, if u play against vlad, u may have to skip rushing lost chapter & get morello asap to counter him, otherwise he would be a monster. u may be forced to do so. > Mages can go GW and get a good item, regardless of what other items. Of course, Mana becomes an Issue, but that's the thing. Mages do Burst, and don't need to worry about Sustain midst combat, when they work with the rotation of their abilities. Imagine how stupid it'd be, if they could build an item with GW, and then go straight for Mana? If there's anything for unfair, that'd be it. And If an assassin builds an Exe. Calling, they're putting themself behind when they depend on lethality. rushing exeutioner against vlad is called game adaptation for itemization. yes u give up one thing by delaying your Serrated Dirk, but u reduce vlad's regen, this is the way to play against him. u should not build the same item every single time regardless of who u face against, u should adapt in every matchup. like if u are facing a 2/0 fizz as an 0/2 talon, u should rush hexdrinker instead of Serrated Dirk in order for u to get back to the game, instead of stick to Serrated Dirk & get killed 5 more times.

AD champ can buy executioner for 800 gold, tanks can buy bamble vest for 1000 gold, so why can't kennen, rumble can similar stuff within 800 - 1100 gold range to counter mundo, trundle, vlad? it just make mundo trundle vlad straight up counter kennen, rumble or something like that, especially when their ult is up. it's basically gotta be doomed in lane, until ur other members of the team are so fed to kill them. 1v1ing is basically impossible.

i mean if u let an 800 gold non-final item to have grevious wounds on AD champ, why shouldn't be AP champ having a 800-1100 gold item as well in order to get grevious wound?

i want it, as i can counterplay mundo trundle in lane when they have ult as rumble or some champ like him.

the problem is when mundo trundle hit lv 6 & when their ult is up, they just run up at u, & u have no counterplay except having tower as your defence.

i am talking about if an AP champ wants grevious wounds to counter heal, he needs all 3k gold to get that. do u know how long it takes to have that gold in game to complete that item? i am not comparing that other stat of the item. what i am trying to say is that AP champ needs so much gold in order to have that. it's unfair. like u play talon mid, u only need 800 gold, but if u play ahri, u need 3k gold.

have u really faced a mundo when u don't have grevious wound?! mundo just walk in and out of frontline, & he's full hp again.

i am talking about if an AP champ wants grevious wounds to counter heal, he needs all 3k gold to get that. do u know how long it takes to have that gold in game to complete that item? i am not comparing that other stat of the item. what i am trying to say is that AP champ needs so much gold in order to have that. it's unfair. like u play talon mid, u only need 800 gold, but if u play ahri, u need 3k gold.

ignite has a 210 second cd. if u use it the fight beforehand, u can't use it now. AD champ can also take ignite & executioner.

i mean if u let an 800 gold non-final item to have grevious wounds on AD champ, why shouldn't be AP champ having a 800 gold item as well in order to get grevious wound?

i am talking about if an AP champ wants grevious wounds to counter heal, he needs all 3k gold to get that. do u know how long it takes to have that gold in game to complete that item? i am not comparing that other stat of the item. what i am trying to say is that AP champ needs so much gold in order to have that. it's unfair. like u play talon mid, u only need 800 gold, but if u play ahri, u need 3k gold.

> [{quoted}](name=Hügö,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y2t80ETt,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-05-19T10:22:49.902+0000) > > Or buy executioner as a AP champ when you need grevious wound so badly? from a game balance standpoint, should it be riot as game designer to fix this instead of players to adjust to this?

> [{quoted}](name=GeminiRune,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=i8aoo7qG,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-04-16T12:35:17.670+0000) > > That is absolutely relevant. You're talking damage numbers but completely removing the WHO in the equation. It's not that hard to elaborate. > > While we're at it let's just go look back at 100T vs VG and how a Caitlyn shouldn't deal some insanely high amount of team damage. Saying just that is transparency i think it's game 4 if my memory is correct. afreeca makes a pick n kills one at the start of the fight, then kaisa ults in n cleans up a 4v5 with just a black shield protecting her.

> [{quoted}](name=Shukr4n,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=i8aoo7qG,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-16T11:16:27.773+0000) > > Kaisa is an,adc. Her chart will always be high. Wanna look at rekkles charts and nerf all the champs he plays because high damage? i think it's game 4 if my memory is correct. afreeca makes a pick n kills one at the start of the fight, then kaisa ults in n cleans up a 4v5 with just a black shield protecting her.

> [{quoted}](name=Shukr4n,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=i8aoo7qG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-16T03:54:36.253+0000) > > Tsm lost all their last matches to azir mid. > > Azir broken? tsm sucks this year. those r irrelevant. azir losts a lot of matches in other pro games. pls go to check kaisa dmg chart in those teamfights.

> [{quoted}](name=Yiff My Tailhole,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ift3iErW,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-02T17:16:42.639+0000) > > Ive noticed this too actually. If bot lane doesnt have dragon warded the whole damned game from minute 3 onward (which isnt very feasible) the ww will sneak the dragon instantly. Its a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Noone should be able to solo a major objective that early in the game. basically u can't use ur yellow trinket to ward drag from 3 min onward (it lasts for 1 min, n u use ur time to walk between lane n drag to ward n u will lose cs n exp in doing so, if ur lane is pushed in, it is basically impossible to ward it). soloing drag at lv 3 is already broken, but the more scary thing is that u still have 75% hp as ww to be able to gank a lane where ww has high early ganking pressure. that's broken.

The ability to spam abilities is what riot is trying to define Sona's identity. So they wanna keep it somewhat in this way. So they will keep basic abilities to be spamable n being powerful especially late game, while keeping crescendo somewhat in a weaker state. So they will try to balance her abilities values, instead of mini-rework. Moreover, Sona's abilities already has too many kits off one ability: it has effect, aura n powerchord, while ult lowers her abilities cd. That would be way too much if u keep on adding extra stuff on top of what she already has. That's unfair to other champions.

> [{quoted}](name=BubbaV,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WTEjf2EU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-03T00:29:50.106+0000) > > because they updated it and it looks better I m not talking about his abilities, I mean he walks like limping

> [{quoted}](name=J Rhat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FrAaGdlA,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-11-16T17:46:10.087+0000) > > Udyr doesn't need a rework, he's perfect just the way he is! Just different than the typical champ.. he's my special little snowflake :D I m talking about Voli treatment,not udyr rework

> [{quoted}](name=tough noogies,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FrAaGdlA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-01T10:20:53.065+0000) > > they both need a rework. How would u like to rework him? Give him a dash engage for his Q like Sej? I believe riot won't. I believe riot wants to keep Voli n udyr main weakness of being kited n no dash engage, while they r good at standing n dueling in melee distance

> [{quoted}](name=DongPan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FrAaGdlA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-11-01T10:27:17.088+0000) > > Rework is probably the best option since there kit doesn't suit this meta of gameplay / changes in item > > well if u are kite weakness in udyr why not go righteous glory :s that can help close the gap How would u like to rework him? Give him a dash engage for his Q like Sej? I believe riot won't. I believe riot wants to keep Voli n udyr main weakness of being kited n no dash engage, while they r good at standing n dueling in melee distance

> [{quoted}](name=Timethief49,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FrAaGdlA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-01T08:45:53.764+0000) > > Would prefer to wait for a rework on them rather than make them walking statchecks. How would u like to rework him? Give him a dash engage for his Q like Sej? I believe riot won't. I believe riot wants to keep Voli n udyr main weakness of being kited n no dash engage, while they r good at standing n dueling in melee distance.

> [{quoted}](name=The Skull King,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3F4oP6jN,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-09-17T11:51:07.632+0000) > > Funny story about afk farming jungle. I was playing {{champion:102}} jungle and all the other lanes seemed to be doing pretty okay. The enemy jungler was ganking and not really doing to much with it. So I afk farmed and I came out of the jungle with about 100cs or so more than their jungler and we won pretty quick. What's funny to me is that at the end screen, the enemy jungler was like holy crap dude when you finally came out of your jungle with like 100cs over everyone else. It was pretty scary. i dont mean u farm alot n then u go to kill other, i mean u just afk farm n ignore anything in the game, whether the nexus is going to be killed

> [{quoted}](name=DSØ,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3F4oP6jN,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-09-16T04:51:43.584+0000) > > Will you take your poop somewhere else what do u mean?

i do like more about the current state, where u smite specific monster, it will give u a specific buff for different use, rather than the upcoming revert the smite use, where it gives no difference of which monster u r going to smite. n i don't like the plant, i believe whenever u see a plant, u r going to kill it anyway becoz u dont want enemy to use it to benefit enemy, which means there is no decision making for killing the plant or not. the short video showing the vision plant is a bad design i think, as the video show, the plant grows in the blue side jg, so that red team is very hard to kill that vision plant, blue team almost dont need to risk anything to gain vision in the drag pit (no need to ward drag pit where u need someone to walk near the pit to ward it). i know riot wanna change sth to the game so that it brings out new stuff every season, in order to make ppl feel like playing a somewhat new type of game comparing to last year, but i m not a huge fan of RNG with all kind of random stuff all over the map n the game. i think league of legends requires some knowledge to play well, as u require laner to have many different knowledge (lane control, cs, champion matchup & counter, etc.), why would u wanna simplify the jungle? jungle role also require u to have different knowledge to play well as well, so why would u reduce the gap between skilled jg player with the new ones?

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/TRLH1/1001900786?gameHash=6856884073c207a6&tab=overview this is a match from worlds, u can see 4 ppl in C9 have bought Qss, n 3 upgrade to M-scimitar (jhin, ryze, reksai), & i believe if there is a chance of recall, rumble will buy it too. And this qss is just for countering skarner, so is it not fair that 4 ppl in your team who need to buy qss just to counter an ultimate from one single enemy spell, if it can't be upgradable for the goods of that champ (ryze, rumble, actually reksai is a tank, who somewhat does not need the ad dmg or lifesteal)?

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/TRLH1/1001900786?gameHash=6856884073c207a6&tab=overview this is a match from worlds, u can see 4 ppl in C9 have bought Qss, n 3 upgrade to M-scimitar (jhin, ryze, reksai), & i believe if there is a chance of recall, rumble will buy it too. And this qss is just for countering skarner, so is it not fair that 4 ppl in your team who need to buy qss just to counter an ultimate from one single enemy spell, if it can't be upgradable for the goods of that champ (ryze, rumble, actually reksai is a tank, who somewhat does not need the ad dmg or lifesteal)?

i think there should be some upgradeable item for qss to items that r usable for ap, mage, tank or any other role, while giving reduced item stat comparing to other final item, like giving 50ap upgrading qss, which luden echo has 100ap, sth like that. so it makes the slot not a waste, while still punishing when u take qss, u can't have a full power final item.

i mean i have seen in the worlds that when team facing malz or skarner, we gonna see the team go 4 qss and then upgrade to M-scimitar when there is no more slot to upgrade ur item n get anything out of fighting power. i have seen in worlds, a ryze mid buy qss and then lastly upgrade to M-scimitar as last item, which literally gives no extra power to ryze, but a M-scimitar will give adc extra power, so is it balanced? if u r facing enemy skarner in the team, then everyone is forced to buy qss which can't be upgradable, so enemy will have 6 item fighting power, where ur team has like 5 item to fight against, which the qss is just for protecting basically 1 ultimate spell, is it fair? so as u guys bring out the zhonya issue, i would like to say for ad assassins, they literally have no very powerful life saving item for them except like M-scimitar, maw, gage, which the last 2 can still be overkilled with dmg. So their life saving skill is to use sidestep or dodge or ability that could help them (like talon stealth), whereas like kat or fizz they can jump in then press a zhonya button n he is invulerable for 2 sec, is it fair for ad assassins comparing to the ap ones?