agree, thanks for pointing out.

i have sent 2 support tickets for this, & both replied me that i should post it in the forum, in order to let dev team see it. the riot support worker who answered my ticket would not refer my ticket message to dev team.

thx for suggestion. i post it on gameplay section today.

> [{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8iqyRi0I,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-07T12:43:13.764+0000) > > because being better than half the playerbase doesn't make you good. Idk what your point is, bottom tier will feel bad because they're bottom tier? like what? nothing changes, bronze 5 players will just become iron 4 players. If we're lucky that means silver finally becomes a bit more stable instead of the melting pot it is now. when anyone got placed in bronze after placement, everyone got depressed about this. when u tell ur friend u r a bronze player, everyone laugh at u. & u tell me i could be even worse than being bronze in next year?! how does that sound?! when u r bad, u got placed in bronze, u feel bad, i get it. but now u r even worse than bronze?! is it going even worse?! what's the fun of playing this game as a new comer? most new comers are placed in bronze after placement. & u gonna hurt those feelings even harder. i think the game has plenty of toxic & negativity already, it needs positive energy. don't push it go further down please.

zed Q 6 second cd, E 5 to 3 sec cd; talon Q 8 to 6 sec CD, W 9 sec CD. their core build (including Maw of Malmortius) all have CDR, & yasuo Q & E has super short CD. are the AD assassins really have long CD on their spells comparing to the AP ones?! assassins are meant to be killing single targets, but what draws you back from thinking mages shouldn't get grevious wounds so early? most champions do not have healing effect on their kit, so having grevious wounds on them would not hurt them. so why is it bad to have a 800-1000 AP item with shitty stat that has grevious wounds?

then would u build the fking executioner or bamble vest on ahri?! or should the fking balance team fix this?!

if u play against a normal mid or top other than mundo, trundle, vlad, would u rush luden, archangel for more mana & cdr, rod of ages for hp, hextech revolver into photobelt for fizz ekko for that extra revolver dmg, gap closer & wave clear, gunblade for lb, kat, akali for that extra burst, or would u build morello instead of all those items? morello is good as 2nd item in normal & most situations, the other items are so good as 1st item against morello to give other utilities.

do u really get my point? why AD champ only needs 800 to get grevious wounds, tank only need 1000 gold, meanwhile AP need 3k gold! when u have 3k gold, mundo, trundle, vlad, raka already at lv 6 at least, so they would have ult.

do u think zed, talon has less burst than ori?

is it fair for AP champ to buy executioner which he can't build anything from it? or should the balance team change the item so the problem is solved? is it the problem for players? or is it the problem for balance team?

so i voice it out in here, & hope balance team would read it. As riot says balance team would read this forum.

gragas can also heal, but not as much as vlad does. but when u play as mid, & they have a mundo top, trundle jg, annie mid, u may still want to have grevious wounds because u need it in teamfight, & others may not have grevious wounds item.

> Your first example: AD tanks, Divers and Assassins, are the least likely to need GW in the first place. And once again, those are bursty people, not DPS. So, the AD's who'd need GW the most are the DPS. Sooooo, what's your point other than nitpicking a single statement? I'd buy Executioners on Sion, once in a blue moon, against maybe one or two specific champions (Mundo, Maokai) and that's early game only, when I'm not doing burst To an enemy where GW is required. tanks like sion can rush bamble vest, which is 1000 gold. it has grevious wounds. > Becauseeeeeeeee, Mages (the majority of them) DO BURST, and if you're trying to tell that an AD Tank or Diver can do Mage level burst early game as they can, than I'm sorry, but that's just not right. Assassins, yeah, but the only opponent they'd really need a GW for would be later in the game if there's a healer, or if they're laning against a Vlad. do u know how mundo be able to fight vs mages in teamfight with his ult? he tanks dmg, walks away, pop his ult, then 3-5 seconds later, he can walk back into the frontline again because he regens so much hp. mundo is a counter pick for AP champ other than late game ADCs, because the abilities like ori are burst in 1 second, using QRW, then she has no dmg to follow unless she uses her auto. if mundo survives that QRW, he can walk back to pop his ult, then he re-enter the fight 3-5 seconds later, & ori can do nothing about it unless she has grevious wounds, because the 2nd QW rotation won't be enough to kill mundo. > If you're complaining about the odd match up in top lane, like Lissandra vs Mundo, well personally I'd tell you to go fuck yourself, get your mages outta top lane, I wanna melee up there. that's why i suggest to have a shitty 800-1100 gold AP item to have grevious wounds in order for liss to be playable in that lane. blind pick an AP top or blind pick against vlad is not a very rare situation. The game should not forbidden players to blind pick AP champs because there is no item to counter healing champ unless u have 3000 gold in bank. > Finally, and this is a big one, Mages actually get a REALLY good item early game with their Grevious Wounds rush. I don't know about ADC items after the update they're getting, but buying Thornmail or Mortal Reminder as a first, is a really bad idea, since those items need others to help them do their job. ADs and Tanks can get the GW easier, because it's something to help them through a bad match up, as they go back to building something better/something that they need to do their job well. u can sit on bamble vest or executioner & continue your normal build path. it's just 800-1000 gold delay. it won't hurt u much. however, if u play against vlad, u may have to skip rushing lost chapter & get morello asap to counter him, otherwise he would be a monster. u may be forced to do so. > Mages can go GW and get a good item, regardless of what other items. Of course, Mana becomes an Issue, but that's the thing. Mages do Burst, and don't need to worry about Sustain midst combat, when they work with the rotation of their abilities. Imagine how stupid it'd be, if they could build an item with GW, and then go straight for Mana? If there's anything for unfair, that'd be it. And If an assassin builds an Exe. Calling, they're putting themself behind when they depend on lethality. rushing exeutioner against vlad is called game adaptation for itemization. yes u give up one thing by delaying your Serrated Dirk, but u reduce vlad's regen, this is the way to play against him. u should not build the same item every single time regardless of who u face against, u should adapt in every matchup. like if u are facing a 2/0 fizz as an 0/2 talon, u should rush hexdrinker instead of Serrated Dirk in order for u to get back to the game, instead of stick to Serrated Dirk & get killed 5 more times.

AD champ can buy executioner for 800 gold, tanks can buy bamble vest for 1000 gold, so why can't kennen, rumble can similar stuff within 800 - 1100 gold range to counter mundo, trundle, vlad? it just make mundo trundle vlad straight up counter kennen, rumble or something like that, especially when their ult is up. it's basically gotta be doomed in lane, until ur other members of the team are so fed to kill them. 1v1ing is basically impossible.

i mean if u let an 800 gold non-final item to have grevious wounds on AD champ, why shouldn't be AP champ having a 800-1100 gold item as well in order to get grevious wound?

i want it, as i can counterplay mundo trundle in lane when they have ult as rumble or some champ like him.

the problem is when mundo trundle hit lv 6 & when their ult is up, they just run up at u, & u have no counterplay except having tower as your defence.

i am talking about if an AP champ wants grevious wounds to counter heal, he needs all 3k gold to get that. do u know how long it takes to have that gold in game to complete that item? i am not comparing that other stat of the item. what i am trying to say is that AP champ needs so much gold in order to have that. it's unfair. like u play talon mid, u only need 800 gold, but if u play ahri, u need 3k gold.

have u really faced a mundo when u don't have grevious wound?! mundo just walk in and out of frontline, & he's full hp again.

i am talking about if an AP champ wants grevious wounds to counter heal, he needs all 3k gold to get that. do u know how long it takes to have that gold in game to complete that item? i am not comparing that other stat of the item. what i am trying to say is that AP champ needs so much gold in order to have that. it's unfair. like u play talon mid, u only need 800 gold, but if u play ahri, u need 3k gold.

ignite has a 210 second cd. if u use it the fight beforehand, u can't use it now. AD champ can also take ignite & executioner.

i mean if u let an 800 gold non-final item to have grevious wounds on AD champ, why shouldn't be AP champ having a 800 gold item as well in order to get grevious wound?

i am talking about if an AP champ wants grevious wounds to counter heal, he needs all 3k gold to get that. do u know how long it takes to have that gold in game to complete that item? i am not comparing that other stat of the item. what i am trying to say is that AP champ needs so much gold in order to have that. it's unfair. like u play talon mid, u only need 800 gold, but if u play ahri, u need 3k gold.

> [{quoted}](name=Hügö,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y2t80ETt,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-05-19T10:22:49.902+0000) > > Or buy executioner as a AP champ when you need grevious wound so badly? from a game balance standpoint, should it be riot as game designer to fix this instead of players to adjust to this?

> [{quoted}](name=GeminiRune,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=i8aoo7qG,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-04-16T12:35:17.670+0000) > > That is absolutely relevant. You're talking damage numbers but completely removing the WHO in the equation. It's not that hard to elaborate. > > While we're at it let's just go look back at 100T vs VG and how a Caitlyn shouldn't deal some insanely high amount of team damage. Saying just that is transparency i think it's game 4 if my memory is correct. afreeca makes a pick n kills one at the start of the fight, then kaisa ults in n cleans up a 4v5 with just a black shield protecting her.

> [{quoted}](name=Shukr4n,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=i8aoo7qG,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-16T11:16:27.773+0000) > > Kaisa is an,adc. Her chart will always be high. Wanna look at rekkles charts and nerf all the champs he plays because high damage? i think it's game 4 if my memory is correct. afreeca makes a pick n kills one at the start of the fight, then kaisa ults in n cleans up a 4v5 with just a black shield protecting her.

> [{quoted}](name=Shukr4n,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=i8aoo7qG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-16T03:54:36.253+0000) > > Tsm lost all their last matches to azir mid. > > Azir broken? tsm sucks this year. those r irrelevant. azir losts a lot of matches in other pro games. pls go to check kaisa dmg chart in those teamfights.

> [{quoted}](name=Yiff My Tailhole,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ift3iErW,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-02T17:16:42.639+0000) > > Ive noticed this too actually. If bot lane doesnt have dragon warded the whole damned game from minute 3 onward (which isnt very feasible) the ww will sneak the dragon instantly. Its a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Noone should be able to solo a major objective that early in the game. basically u can't use ur yellow trinket to ward drag from 3 min onward (it lasts for 1 min, n u use ur time to walk between lane n drag to ward n u will lose cs n exp in doing so, if ur lane is pushed in, it is basically impossible to ward it). soloing drag at lv 3 is already broken, but the more scary thing is that u still have 75% hp as ww to be able to gank a lane where ww has high early ganking pressure. that's broken.

The ability to spam abilities is what riot is trying to define Sona's identity. So they wanna keep it somewhat in this way. So they will keep basic abilities to be spamable n being powerful especially late game, while keeping crescendo somewhat in a weaker state. So they will try to balance her abilities values, instead of mini-rework. Moreover, Sona's abilities already has too many kits off one ability: it has effect, aura n powerchord, while ult lowers her abilities cd. That would be way too much if u keep on adding extra stuff on top of what she already has. That's unfair to other champions.

> [{quoted}](name=BubbaV,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WTEjf2EU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-03T00:29:50.106+0000) > > because they updated it and it looks better I m not talking about his abilities, I mean he walks like limping

> [{quoted}](name=J Rhat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FrAaGdlA,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-11-16T17:46:10.087+0000) > > Udyr doesn't need a rework, he's perfect just the way he is! Just different than the typical champ.. he's my special little snowflake :D I m talking about Voli treatment,not udyr rework

> [{quoted}](name=tough noogies,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FrAaGdlA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-01T10:20:53.065+0000) > > they both need a rework. How would u like to rework him? Give him a dash engage for his Q like Sej? I believe riot won't. I believe riot wants to keep Voli n udyr main weakness of being kited n no dash engage, while they r good at standing n dueling in melee distance

> [{quoted}](name=DongPan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FrAaGdlA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-11-01T10:27:17.088+0000) > > Rework is probably the best option since there kit doesn't suit this meta of gameplay / changes in item > > well if u are kite weakness in udyr why not go righteous glory :s that can help close the gap How would u like to rework him? Give him a dash engage for his Q like Sej? I believe riot won't. I believe riot wants to keep Voli n udyr main weakness of being kited n no dash engage, while they r good at standing n dueling in melee distance

> [{quoted}](name=Timethief49,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FrAaGdlA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-01T08:45:53.764+0000) > > Would prefer to wait for a rework on them rather than make them walking statchecks. How would u like to rework him? Give him a dash engage for his Q like Sej? I believe riot won't. I believe riot wants to keep Voli n udyr main weakness of being kited n no dash engage, while they r good at standing n dueling in melee distance.