Rioter Comments
: except ekko has....... a speed boost, a slow, a 3 hit damage nuke, another slow, a stun, missing health damage, 2 dashes, untargetability, healing, escape, and heavy aoe damage. On an assassin.
except fizz has....... permanent ghost, a slow, takes less damage from autoattacks, another slow, a knockup, missing health damage, 3 dashes, untargetability, damage amplification, escape, and aoe damage. On an assassin. To simplify it a bit: - Ekko gets a speed boost, a 3 hit passive, a stun, and healing - Fizz gets an extra dash, permanent ghost, a knockup, and damage amplification, plus he takes less damage from autoattacks
: I don't think so. I think the difference between European Spanish and Latin Amerian Spanish(es) are no where as close as the difference between the Americanized English and UK English. (Personally never heard of Wisonsin). http://www.fluentu.com/spanish/blog/differences-between-castilian-and-latin-american-spanish/ This source seems credible. The differences between the Spanishes is more than spelling, and pronounciation (which are the most common differences in daily interchange between US Eng and UK Eng). Whole words from one language are ommitted from the other and some words have COMPLETELY different meaning from one to the other. I don't think I know any or if there is any between US Eng and UK Eng. If someone out there does know then I doubt it has any real impact to daily interactions between the two.
There are definitely some meaning differences between US and UK English. In the US, a boot is a heavy shoe, and the trunk is the storage area of an automobile. In the UK, a boot is the storage space of an automobile, and a trunk is a large suitcase. Spanish is still probably on a higher order of separation because of differences in formal pronouns (although I couldn't really gather from the article you linked what exactly the differences are). I think Wisonsin is a typo of Wisconsin, and it's just a jab at regional accents/dialects. I don't know much about Wisconsin, but I can't imagine it's further separated from US English than Louisiana Creole.
khorney (NA)
: what troll pick
Hay5eed (NA)
: Can't Azir have ONE friend?
Doesn't everyone think that Sivir is a really fantastic granddaughter though?
High5 (NA)
: So, I can't grab the EULCS icon? Crappy promotion.
"If you want to represent a different region, you can purchase other regional icons in the store for 250 RP, but you can only participate in the icon challenge below for your home region." So you can grab the EU LCS icon. Sweet promotion.
: Reminder that we use to not have these chests and keys
I remember not having all these chests, but what are keys?
: A (very) weird alternative to the traditional support playstyle which I absolutely love
Very cool. Do you make any changes besides taking smite and picking up the jungle item? Have you tested Strength of the Ages? Is it worth it to rush Cinderhulk, or is it better to finish a different health item first? How do you stay safe taking the first buff/wolf/raptors from the enemy jungle, especially without flash? The enemy junglers don't seem to be very far behind in farm even when you take 20+ of their jungle monsters and the first buff. Does it seem like they fall behind in game?
: Ahri's passive is flat scaling per level + .09 AP. I don't think Spell Vamp would break her. I'd be more concerned about Morgana's 15% passive Spell Vamp.
I wasn't really talking about Ahri's passive. I just think what the OP is suggesting (tuning spellvamp for all mages) is outside the scope of the immobile mage update.
: I just realized. A mage gameplay update is the perfect time for spellvamp ratios.
They might not want to deal with spellvamp during the immobile mage update because spellvamp is good on a bunch of other champions. There are mobile mages like Ahri, Kassadin, and LeBlanc plus other champions with a bunch of damage from abilities like Maokai and Zac that can use spellvamp if it is stronger/more available. I think spellvamp is probably somewhere on Riot's list of things to deal with, but I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see any changes with it until preseason 7.
TehNACHO (NA)
: I'd like to note that skill shots is a weird skill to drill unless for a particular champion due to how different (especially more recent skill shots) abilities are between Champions. Double hitting Ekko's Q is nothing like Jhin's zap. And Yi does have an animation cancel; instant Meditate. I'd also like to pose that Yi's melee carry build, the squishy crit based one, does not function at all in team fights unless you know exactly who to target and when to jump in. Not positioning in the Marksman sense, but that is the positioning patterns of Assassins and Dive Fighters. Most champions do however have some way to directly _react_ to an enemy, for example any CC for a squishy ranged like Xerath E or Vayne E, or shield effects like Riven E or Kayle ult. It's not that you train when to be invulnerable, you train to hone your reaction time to enemy skills. Now the orb walking thing, yeah Yi doesn't teach that well at all (^ ^) EDIT: Oh I just realized. I am a laning Yi player (well, at least that's how I learned how to play Yi), laning mechanics with a melee auto attacker interacting with everything else said influences my posts.
Skill shots are somewhat unique to the champion, but there is a ton of overlap. Double hitting Ekko's Q is a lot like double hitting Ahri's Q, and Jhin's zap is similar to Jinx's zap. Many skillshots have some twist on them to make them unique, but they can all be dodged, unlike anything from Master Yi. Learning to predict dodges and land skillshots is a big part of the game. I didn't know Meditate was an autoattack reset. I think Yi is good for encouraging the player to look for picks, but I don't think that's a skill that translates to the majority of other champions. Tanks, supports, marksmen, and mages tend to prefer teamfights. Master Yi might teach you how to flank and prioritize targets, but that doesn't translate well outside of Assassins and Dive Fighters. I'll give you that Yi is good for learning to anticipate and dodge enemy skills, but I'm not sure that he's better for it than any other champion. I guess my biggest problem is your statement that "Putting real time and effort into Yi builds a really good foundation of skills that you can apply to almost every champion in the game." I think playing Yi a lot would make you good at Yi, and champions like Yi, but I don't see how to carries over to different classes of champions. What foundational skills does Yi teach for marksmen or supports or mages? I feel like everything you learn from Yi is either specialized to certain classes and does not "apply to almost every champion in the game" or is so general that you would learn the same things from playing any other champion. In other words, wouldn't you learn just as much by playing an immobile ADC? Sure, you wouldn't learn how to dive the enemy carries or how to split push well, but you would learn orbwalking, playing with teammates, positioning, and aiming skillshots. It would probably be easier to learn the importance of kiting and not overextending.
TehNACHO (NA)
: So instead of just being a jerk, you mind posting a fair evaluation on my opinions on yi? I mean I made 0 claims of his balance, and I am in fact emphasizing how simple he is by stating he's good for drills, so that covers up 90% of the kneejerk reactions to seeing yi's icon, so this is really uncalled for.
Just a guess, but I think Majhin Weaboo probably objects to the idea that Master Yi is good for drilling mechanics or your claim that Yi skills carry over to other champions. Yi is right-click based, so you don't get to work on aiming skillshots or animation canceling. He is also melee with a short-range gapcloser in Alpha Strike and his ult gives him a bunch of speed, which means you don't really learn about how to position in teamfights. Most champions don't have any sort of immunity to CC or invulnerability frames. Most champions are at least partially reliant on skillshots. Most champions require good positioning in teamfights. Yi doesn't punish you as hard for not orbwalking as other champions do.
: How to stay devoted to one champion ?
You can get to gold playing Wukong. You could also get to gold by switching to Gragas. I don't think either option is significantly easier. You should pick something you enjoy because it will probably take quite a few games to climb, especially if you want to get to diamond. If you do decide to stick with Wukong, work on learning everything about him. Read his abilities on lolwikia. Read guides on lolking or mobafire. Watch streams of high elo players playing Wukong. Think about your build and whether there's anything you can change to make it better. Practice your first clear in custom games to make it more efficient. Whether you keep playing Wukong or you switch, you should work on becoming a better jungler in general. Watch the minimap to see where the enemy jungler is, and try to see good opportunities for ganks or counterganks. Ping before you get to the lane so that your teammates can prepare for a gank. Pay attention to timers so that you can contest objectives and clear your buffs efficiently. Work on vision control. If you learn your main and you learn your role, climbing will be easy even if you play a champion that is outside the meta.
: Ban Choices for Draft
There are some people who do statistical analysis of best bans by tier. They post to reddit every patch (when they have enough data for the patch). Here's the 6.5 post: [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4a8xsz/best_bans_by_tier_in_each_region_patch_65_a/). Here's a link to the Bronze ban list: [link](http://imgur.com/6YZZ0cr). Some of the things you mention, like Volibear and Lux, are on there, but you are missing some of the best bans (statistically) for bronze. Udyr, Amumu, and Blitzcrank are all more likely to have a large impact on the game than champs like Anivia or Ziggs.
skullzx7 (NA)
: Well something I forgot to even mention because I forgot it gave him the massive armor pen is that he ulted someone who was next to me, i think it was our vayne if i remember right, and that combined with {{item:3036}} is 95% bonus armor pen, plus the 20 he got from items, and the extra from masteries so I probably had somewhere in the rough ballpark of , say, 40 armor?
Armor Pen stacks multiplicatively, so Yasuo's ult and Lord Dominik's Regards would allow Yasuo to ignore 72.5% of your bonus armor, not 95%. Zac has about 80 base armor at level 18, so that's 370 bonus armor, minus 72.5% is ~102, add the 80 back for 182 armor before flat penetration. Precision gives 8.4 armor penetration, so with 20 armor penetration from items, Yasuo still has to go through about 154 armor. 150 armor would give you 10,000 effective HP if you were at exactly 4000 hp. It does seem unlikely that Yasuo could do 10,000 physical damage with two autoattacks and two Qs. Thunderlord's and Statikk Shiv do magic damage, which helps, but it probably can't come close to killing you.
: > the same question was asked 5 different ways if I remember Did he say what were the exact variants? If all of them were this biased this doesn't help anything. Oh wait, he doesn't remember. Because like who cares about validity. > and the results all trended the same direction "Trended" yes. Having graphs of 80 to 20 and 51 to 49, they also "trend into the same direction" yet they values are so inconsistent. Yet again he didn't state all numbers. That's what statistic is for. Picking up the numbers you like. I suppose he doesn't remember again, because those numbers got somehow irrelevant. If the numbers above were averaged from the scale, then it's another level of "reliablity" of data. Averaging is nice tool of making certain numbers get lost. > The survey tool they used also assesses a random sample of the entire playerbase So I suppose you also have mere idea whether vote of those people was valid and whether they even played the DynaQ. Additionally, he stated all percentages not exact values, so this doesn't answer OP's comment. EDIT: Also the fact they had other people do it doesn't help. From what my math lectors know, it is "normal trend" they are payed not only to make the statistic, but also to fit it.... certain direction.
Your first two points about the other variants drawing positive answers for dynamic queue and how strong the results were are good points. Lyte does say "Slight changes in wording, different frames of reference, they asked it all," which suggests that the questions were not all biased towards dynamic queue. As for the results of the survey, Lyte says "55% of players agreed, 20% were neutral, and 25% disagreed" (to the question in the OP). He doesn't do a breakdown of the individual results, but I think the total results are fine, given that asking the question different ways is a tool to reduce the influence of asking the question a certain way. Your second two points are not very convincing. You claim that people who haven't played Dynamic Queue don't have "valid" votes, but if the poll was only sent to people who were playing Dynamic Queue, it would be biased in favor of Dynamic Queue because it would exclude people who don't want to play Dynamic Queue at all. As for percentages vs exact values, I don't think the OP says anything about that. I think it's fair to assume that the number of survey responses was considered adequate for extrapolation. I don't know of any company that would risk losing profits based on a study with a huge margin for error. Even if your unnamed sources are correct and research companies are completely corrupt and routinely get paid to skew statistics, that just means Riot wanted to go ahead with Dynamic Queue. If you're right and Riot paid for certain results, they could have just as easily saved the money and forged some statistics on their own.
lolptwo (NA)
: Riot Lyte is trying to tell us the majority of us prefer Dynamic Queue over Solo Q
> Multiple scientists worked on the surveys, and actually the same question was asked 5 different ways if I remember. Slight changes in wording, different frames of reference, they asked it all, and the results all trended the same direction. The survey tool they used also assesses a random sample of the entire playerbase, not just players currently in the system. * Lyte, later in the same thread Try checking to see if your concerns have already been answered before making a thread about it. If you did already know about this and you want the upvotes or you are trying to pressure Riot into releasing ranked solo queue, then I guess you can trick the majority of people but not me.
: > [{quoted}](name=delonix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yiaE7mbG,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2016-03-08T22:16:21.300+0000) > > Support queues being short could indicate that people like playing carries or don't enjoy feeling like a wardbot. It doesn't necessarily indicate that supports are the most mistreated role. I think the jungler comparisons are fair. The jungler is often expected to gank each lane as often as the enemy jungler, but that's not always realistic. On top of this, they have a disproportionate amount of responsibility for securing Rift Herald, Dragon, and Baron. I don't think so. I do believe junglers receive a certain degree of pressure, but it is directly proportionate to their abilities in game and how central Riot has made them to the balance of this game. So many patches revolve around the jungle role each season. That's an important distinction to make, don't you think? Your attitude towards supports directly confirms the notion that supports are generally considered not important to the game. "People don't enjoy feeling like a wardbot." Very interesting, you don't consider supports being thought of as wardbots by their teammates as mistreatment? It's funny that you bring up the responsibility of objectives, because in my experience supports are expected to always have those warded. **It's everyone's job to ward objectives**. Not just the support, not just the jungler. It's the _team's_ objective, and therefor the team as a whole is responsible when the enemy takes the objective right under their noses. Instead what you see in games is that supports often preform over half the warding, which is unhealthy and at the very least goes to show that clearly junglers don't carry the burden of objectives alone. It comes back to this unrealistic misconception that supports are "wardbots" and that our experiences are tied so closely to how others preform, and not how we individually are preforming, and that's something that no other role experiences. The toxic behavior we receive because of it is unique to our own role. I notice that my friends in platinum and diamond continue to enjoy the support role to a degree, but admit that it's less enjoyable than previous seasons and would like to see a support update. However everyone of my friends that is Gold and below like me has all but given up on the role this season. We're seeing things we can't ignore happening in the majority of the games that I listed in my original post here. Fake supports, no sightstones, KSing, etc. Stop making support discussions about junglers or any other role. It further undermines your argument that junglers have it the worst in this game, and highlights that supports are marginalized even in their own discussions. Just focus on talking about the support role in a topic about supports. Any other focus takes away from that. OP asked what supports thought about their own role and the state of bot lane and how they deal with the unique problems we face. Instead there have been a few people popping in talking about how hard junglers have it. I for one am sick of it. If you want a jungler topic, go make one. Nobody is stopping you and you certainly wouldn't see a huge swath of support mains popping in trying to take over the conversation. Don't try to say what role you main to add validity to your opinion when what you say is supported by nothing else. I don't only play support in this game, but I'm not going to bring up any other roles when it's irrelevant to the conversation.
> [{quoted}](name=Chaton,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yiaE7mbG,comment-id=0000000100010000,timestamp=2016-03-09T05:43:46.318+0000) > > I don't think so. I do believe junglers receive a certain degree of pressure, but it is directly proportionate to their abilities in game and how central Riot has made them to the balance of this game. So many patches revolve around the jungle role each season. > > That's an important distinction to make, don't you think? > Before the marksmen rework, the jungle role was probably the most changed from season to season, but support was close behind with changes to warding and gold generation items every season. My two points about the junglers were that they are expected to help every lane, while supports are not, and they are responsible for securing monster objectives, not warding them. If supports being mistreated by marksmen who don't appreciate them is bad, isn't junglers being mistreated by top, mid, marksmen, and even supports who don't appreciate them worse? > Your attitude towards supports directly confirms the notion that supports are generally considered not important to the game. "People don't enjoy feeling like a wardbot." Very interesting, you don't consider supports being thought of as wardbots by their teammates as mistreatment? > I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I was saying many people don't enjoy the support role because of things inherent to the support role. Feeling like a wardbot has nothing to do with what your teammates think or say, it has to do with a preference for dropping enemies instead of dropping vision. > It's funny that you bring up the responsibility of objectives, because in my experience supports are expected to always have those warded. **It's everyone's job to ward objectives**. Not just the support, not just the jungler. It's the _team's_ objective, and therefor the team as a whole is responsible when the enemy takes the objective right under their noses. Instead what you see in games is that supports often preform over half the warding, which is unhealthy and at the very least goes to show that clearly junglers don't carry the burden of objectives alone. > I agree that supports are expected to ward objectives, but that's not what I was talking about. Even if Dragon and Baron pit aren't warded, it's hard to kill either (or Rift Herald) without the other team noticing. No one blames the support if the monster isn't smited correctly, or if the jungler is consistently out of position to contest. About warding though, I don't think I've had a single game where any support has placed "over half" of the wards. Do you have evidence that suggests this happens "often"? > It comes back to this unrealistic misconception that supports are "wardbots" and that our experiences are tied so closely to how others preform, and not how we individually are preforming, and that's something that no other role experiences. The toxic behavior we receive because of it is unique to our own role. > You might not feel like a wardbot, but that doesn't mean other people don't feel like wardbots when they play support. Being in charge of vision control for your team isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it isn't for everyone. I don't think it's an "unrealistic misconception" that supports are dependent on their teammates, and I think that is something that almost every other role experiences. > I notice that my friends in platinum and diamond continue to enjoy the support role to a degree, but admit that it's less enjoyable than previous seasons and would like to see a support update. However everyone of my friends that is Gold and below like me has all but given up on the role this season. We're seeing things we can't ignore happening in the majority of the games that I listed in my original post here. Fake supports, no sightstones, KSing, etc. > "Fake supports" and KSing have been around for a long time. I remember when people were upset about Annie and Morgana coming to bot lane. No sightstone has been a fringe strategy since trinkets were introduced. It actually got some slight buffs this season with sightstone charges down and blue ward giving non-expiring wards, although the base yellow trinket was nerfed. I don't think that's an optimal strategy, but yelling at supports for trying to do something different seems like the kind of mistreatment you're against. > Stop making support discussions about junglers or any other role. It further undermines your argument that junglers have it the worst in this game, and highlights that supports are marginalized even in their own discussions. Just focus on talking about the support role in a topic about supports. Any other focus takes away from that. OP asked what supports thought about their own role and the state of bot lane and how they deal with the unique problems we face. > > Instead there have been a few people popping in talking about how hard junglers have it. I for one am sick of it. If you want a jungler topic, go make one. Nobody is stopping you and you certainly wouldn't see a huge swath of support mains popping in trying to take over the conversation. Don't try to say what role you main to add validity to your opinion when what you say is supported by nothing else. I don't only play support in this game, but I'm not going to bring up any other roles when it's irrelevant to the conversation. By this logic, the proliferation of support complaint threads indicates that junglers actually have it worse because no one is even acknowledging their plight. I think it isn't too much to expect for us to consider other roles when talking about supports without forgetting what we were discussing in the first place. On top of this, it might actually be impossible to discuss the support role with no reference to other roles. How can you claim to be the most mistreated if you don't even consider what the other roles deal with? The original post is even about mistreating other roles to try to gain respect. In a thread that is about supports interacting with other roles, I wouldn't say that other roles are "irrelevant."
Dataless (NA)
: Teammate, singular, not plural. Ditching my entire team would be counterproductive, ditching a braindead ADC to go make plays with my solo laners and jungler is simply a better use of my time and energy.
> If your team doesn't understand your value as the support they are not worth your time. Maybe I'm wrong, but that sounds like more than just the ADC.
Nofeap (NA)
: agreed, there is a decent skill gap between those groups!
Lucian is listed in both groups.
: > [{quoted}](name=TheLittlestLulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yiaE7mbG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-03-08T16:05:07.827+0000) > > Honestly I've never really noticed any significantly higher amounts of mistreatment as a support. > > If anything the jungler is mistreated more than any other role by far. The jungler comparisons are laughable. When you consider that Riot balances this game around junglers, you quickly find there is little validity to that argument. If you're too lazy to look for that proof in patch notes and FotM lists, then you compare the queue times. Support queue times are extremely short, what does this imply? Clearly if Riot is spending so much time on this one role people must recognize it's importance to the game. If so much mistreatment is happening, why is their role so popular and why does Riot pay so much attention to junglers. We must ask ourselves, why are people avoiding support, and why do a large portion of support players and non support players feel that they get unfairly treated? Furthermore junglers can become the carry of game. They scale and earn income based on the positive impact that they're having on a match. I can be 0/0/6 as a support at about 8-10 minutes in with 80-100% of the kill credit going to me, but be several levels behind my teammates and I will definitely have the least amount of gold, even if I stick by my ADC and even if I roam. This is certainly a reason support queue times are short, but it doesn't explain why barely anybody is playing the role lately and we're seeing an increase in these fake supports and people making their own rules up for supports. In games I'm treated as if I have the ability to save the world, set up every single kill, and teleport instantly around the map providing vision in every single bush. Support wards never expire! It's ridiculous. People overlook the limitations placed upon supports and at the same expect them to be able to carry, and this is where the root of the disrespect comes from I believe.
Support queues being short could indicate that people like playing carries or don't enjoy feeling like a wardbot. It doesn't necessarily indicate that supports are the most mistreated role. I think the jungler comparisons are fair. The jungler is often expected to gank each lane as often as the enemy jungler, but that's not always realistic. On top of this, they have a disproportionate amount of responsibility for securing Rift Herald, Dragon, and Baron.
Dataless (NA)
: I don't need to force someone's respect, as a Lion does not care for the bleating of Sheep. If your team doesn't understand your value as the support they are not worth your time. If my ADC is doing poorly I will straight up ditch their ass for the rest of the game and make plays with my more competent teammates. This is the main reason I play {{champion:432}}. I can control the entire map and thus, the entire game. Support mains are most empowered when they put themselves on playmaking champions and put the burden on themselves, I rely on my team for nothing, I make them revolve around me.
Ditching your teammates to make them realize that you have "value as the support" is exactly what Fanny Forecast says forcing respect is. You might not "need" to force respect, but you are doing what Fanny Forecast is asking about.
: 1) Experience "is divided equally if there were assistants". Meaning if you and the jungler assist, you're getting 50% as much exp as the laner who killed. Supports are rarely the only assistant for kills, because they tend to roam with the jungler and/or the mid laner. Good supports are marked by team presence, which means that they have to split the exp, unlike the other roles that get klls. 4) You're right, towers are global exp. It's not enough generally to make up for anythng though.
I might be wrong about this, but the way I read it, all of the experience from the kill is divided equally among the killer and the assistants. The killer is the only factor in calculating the amount of experience, but once that experience has been calculated, anyone who participated in the kill gets the same amount of experience. I don't know where to double-check this information, but the full explanation on the wiki is "The experience granted for killing, including this increase (see above), is divided equally if there were assistants." This seems to support my interpretation.
: I'm sorry, you're just wrong. 1) Kills grant such a significant amount of EXP that supports inevitably fall behind. Killing a champ gives 50% of the experience required to reach the slain champion's next level (not current level). This is increased/lowered by 7% per level difference if the target is higher/lower level and can't be lower than 20%. That is a TON of exp. 2) Supports spend time in a duo lane, which inherently puts them behind. 3) Supports can't be in constant proximity to minion deaths because they need to ward/clear, which again puts them behind. 4) Supports (if done properly) back off and give local tower gold to the adc, which puts them even further behind in exp. As a support main, there are games where I don't fall behind because, for whatever reason, I end up with kills, or else I rake in a crap ton of assists/proximity exp. But there are also games where I do my job, get my team members ahead, and ultimitely end up way far behind, just because there is no ambient exp and nothing that a support is required to do will actually give exp, except arguably assists, which aren't a significant source.
I agree that supports generally fall behind in levels, but I think some of your information is wrong. 1.) Assists give as much experience as kills [[source](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Experience_(champion))]. As long as you are getting assists, kills don't exacerbate experience differences. If your teammates consistently have higher kill participation than you, kill experience can become a problem, but low kill participation is not inherent to supports. 4.) Towers give global experience [[source](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Turret)], so even if you back off to give your adc a little more gold, you still get the experience from the tower death. I think a majority of the experience deficit comes from a combination of your third point and WadeWilson1337's follow-up comment. Supports spend a lot of time away from experience sources so that they can ward. Later in the game, if a wave is pushing towards you, a carry usually farms the entire wave for the gold and experience while the support wards objectives or wards for safety, missing out on all of the experience.
Zarvanis (NA)
: Rod of Ages is now statistically bad on Cho'Gath?
Probuilds is deceptive, especially for low popularity champions like Cho'gath. If you are looking at games from more than a month ago, the meta may have already changed to make what happened in those games irrelevant. If you want to keep playing Cho'gath, my advice would be continue to build RoA. It is still good on Cho'gath. Even if you are right about Luden's or Abyssal being better in Challenger, RoA is still good in silver and in gold. Neither build gives a clear advantage over the other; they have different strengths and weaknesses. If winning really is your top priority though, you might want to just switch to a champ with a better place in the meta. Garen, Singed, and Nasus are all quite strong top lane. Vel'koz, Lux, and Anivia are all quite strong mid lane.
: Most flexible champions in game?
Karma and Ekko would probably have my vote for top 2. Not only can they play in solo lane/duo lane/jungle, they have great flexibility in item builds.
: Guinsoo's is such a problem
> only one champ Is it Kog'maw or Kayle?
Solideus (EUNE)
: Elderwood LeBlanc is the perfect example of how Zyra should be less "woman in costume"
http://imgur.com/t0eEpPK http://imgur.com/vLMsS1z They look pretty similar to me. I really can't tell what you are seeing in Elderwood LeBlanc.
: How exactly does Phantom Dancer calculate "Deaths Defied"?
Here's a reddit thread about "deaths defied," with a lot of Riot explanation: [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/476a4q/phantom_dancers_deaths_defied_is_buggeduseless/). Basically, if you do anything "aggressive" when you would be dead without the Phantom Dancer damage reduction, it counts as 1 death defied. Also, if you should have died, but you live for 8 seconds after the fight has stopped, you also get 1 death defied.
: Shaco Support Guide | Silver to Gold
Wow! All the way to gold huh? http://imgur.com/ebi6vVT Well, good video anyway.
Meep Man (NA)
: He gained 1.5% * 17 with his levels, shifting more towards late game as people wanted. Thats 25.5% attack speed compared to 40% attack speed, which is reasonable. Basically, the trade off is: Buff- 12% more armor and magic shred More flat damage on W Less mana increase duration on ultimate Con- Decreased attack speed by 14.5% at Level 18
Since Kog'maw is currently maxing W and putting no points into Q, he has the 40% at level 9. Also, attack speed nerfs are always going to be magnified on Kog because of the doubling mechanic. Taking both of those into account, it looks like a pretty significant nerf to Kog's early game and probably a slight buff to single target damage late game and a slight nerf to multi-target damage late game. It's possible that Kog will make a return to the mid lane with these changes so that he can get more experience than he can in a duo lane, but he's much less safe than Corki.
Poske (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=delonix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MmfcGvM5,comment-id=001a00000000000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-22T21:02:53.807+0000) > > Irelia's highest winrate build does have Rageblade. It also has Trinity Force. > > Your claim about Jax and about people being "outdated" got me thinking. It's true that people can be slow to adapt. It certainly doesn't help that building Trinity Force is apparently the best path to success on fighters like Irelia and Jax. So who faces such intense competition that not adapting would mean a real disadvantage? The only thing I can think of is pro players. > > I took a look over at Probuilds.net, and it looks like Trinity Force is still doing solid on both Jax and Irelia. It isn't being built every game, which suggests that it's now more efficient to build Rageblade or Gunblade in some scenarios. However, Trinity Force is still being built quite often. Players like MaRin, ZionSpartan, Voyboy, and Faker have built Trinity Force on Jax this patch. Players like SoaR, Vizicsacsi, and Acorn have built Trinity Force on Irelia this patch. > > As far as I can tell, neither pro players nor plat+ ranked players are building Warmog's on Jax. While I'd be happy to be wrong about this and concede that you are probably ahead of the general curve from champion.gg, I'm much less inclined to think that your game knowledge is better than that of pro players, some of whom have coaches to help them with things like item build and all of whom face intense competition that would punish them for making any mistakes, like spending 3800 gold on Trinity Force instead of Sterak's Gage and a Titan's Belt. You dont seem to understand Trinity is an item you buy once you get going And once you get going you ll win anyway in most cases. And for that simple reason trinity is performing well on those champs Take a look at udyr for example only time he builds trinity is if he gets going hence why he should have high winrate with him (Didnt check but pretty sure thats the case) Same thing is with irelia and jax Players like MaRin Voyboy etc often get lead so y you might see those on them If you back with 1200 gold y it makes sense to buy sheen since thats the most powerful thing you can get.. So often they take worse item just because they had exact gold for its components If you ask Me I ideally wouldnt build trinity on either of them My irelia build would only have berserkers and regablade for attackspeed and I do have like 150 games on irelia. I would also use attackspeed runes since sadly from my perspective all AS items suck for her except regablade Now not many players have the luxury to play irelia with attackspeed quints/marks... I dont even count Trinity as attackspeed item anymore.. since it gives just 15% Now as for warmogs on jax On jax You want 3 things. AP , AD, Health and some attackspeed wouldnt hurt Why would you want Hp over armor and ressit because Jax passive is free 100 armor and ressist anyway and there is no reason to have 123131 armor and 1231231 ressist Thing with warmogs nowdays is that you need to reach certain hp I believe its 3k to have his passive . Can jax do that with warmog + sterak if he can thats how should you build him I am pretty sure he ends over 3k but if he doesnt y dont build it Gunblade > Trinity if you are jax.. Heck I used to prefer Gunblade on jax before trinity didnt even suck and now I just prefer it even more Its just oldschool knowledge hybrid jax is the strongest jax
I guess I don't understand. Why does it matter when in the game you buy Trinity Force, as long as you are still buying it? Irelia's most common first item is Trinity Force. She wins more with Rageblade first, which suggests that Rageblade is the item you get if you are snowballing, not Trinity Force. Jungle Udyr builds Iceborn Gauntlet, not Trinity Force. I can't find much for top lane Udyr, but I'm guessing Iceborn Gauntlet is more common there as well. Even pro players don't always "get the lead," since they are playing against other players at the top of the ladder, so I don't think that's great support for Trinity Force being an item you only build when ahead. From what I saw on probuilds, it was built really early on Irelia in wins and losses. You might not personally want to build Trinity Force, but the statistics strongly suggest that it's still a great item on a bunch of bruisers, especially Irelia. I think most people who play Irelia regularly do use attack speed runes. Gunblade might be a higher priority than Trinity Force on Jax, but most people who play Jax and the most successful Jax players still build Trinity Force and not Warmog's. Maybe that doesn't fit your playstyle, which is fine, but that's not a reason to make any changes to Trinity Force.
: > the cost increase is partially due to the increased value of the stats now that it builds out of Caulfield's instead of Kindlegem, the question is why they changed the builtpath in the first place. It was a fine item befor, now as i said it feels a bad pchase if your not ahead cause you pay really alot gold for not much tankiness on champs that need to get tanky. Anf of course juggernauts still get it. Thy don't have much cdr options, they desperatly need all the mobillity they need, and they usually need the %shred to stay relevant later on. There are no alternatives, but that doesn change that bc doesn't feel great to get right now most of the time, even if it feels needed. for trinity, my source is my own experience. Getting trinity on most champs doesn't feels good anymore for me, and i have alot more succes with other builts. At the same time, the trinity useing jax and irelias i meet usually do not much at all, while those who go for other builts, usually guinsoo's+tank, are quite hard to deal with. An for the components changes, I do get the sheen change, while i certainly miss the ap on sheen items on many champs, the cdr is a nice replacement and it makes sheenitems more atteracive for a wider range of champs. However, they could have replaced zeal with a better suiteing item and finally get rid of crit on trinity. And jst because phage lost some ad does not have to mean trinity needs to loose some aswell, especially since phage became cheaper while trinity became more expensive. And for the high winbrate builts: trinity is a win more item, it offers mostly offensive combat power vs single target, aswell as sticking power, so it's great to get if ahead. It'S pretty common to built more agressive if you have a lead and more defensive if you are behind. Corelation is not neccesarily causation. i stand with it, if the those chages weren't aimed at makeing it more attracive for adc, then it were pretty poor shortsightned changes with no purpose. Prettymuch colateral damage from other itemchanges that wasn't take care of. There was alot feedback on PBE that bruiser players didn't like the changes atall. If the aim wasn't to make it worse on bruiser, then why stick with the change if it is mostly disliked?
I thought I explained why the Black Cleaver changes were made a little bit below what you quoted; after the juggernaut rework, Riot felt that they had made it too easy for juggernauts to buy out of their low mobility weakness with Black Cleaver and Deadman's Plate. I think there are alternatives to the Black Cleaver. Iceborn Gauntlet is probably the best example; it makes you tanky, it makes you harder to kite, it gives you 20% CDR, and it gives you a bit of damage. As far as items not feeling good to buy, that is a real problem, but it's extremely difficult to fix. If Trinity Force is in a good spot, but doesn't feel rewarding, what is Riot supposed to do? If they buff it, suddenly Irelia and Jax are destroying everyone else, and Corki and Ezreal become even stronger (unless the buffs are targeted at bruisers). They did find a creative solution with Deadman's Plate, which didn't feel rewarding until they added the red trail, which also helps with the counterplay (if you see a red trail, you know you can cc them and stop the empowered auto). Replacing Zeal with Stinger is a suggestion I've heard before, and it would be nice for bruisers. I think that Riot wanted to leave the possibility of Essence Reaver + Trinity Force open for AD casters, but I doubt things have played out the way they expected, if they had any expectations. At this point, switching Zeal to Stinger would remove the crit chance, but it would give Trinity Force 20% CDR, which I don't think is very likely to happen. The changes to Trinity Force weren't aimed at anything, as far as I can tell. It is "collateral damage" of other item changes, which were directed at various things (Zeal becomes more of an ADC component item, Sheen fixed so that it doesn't force weird item stats, Phage tuned for juggernauts). That doesn't mean that Trinity Force is suddenly bad now though. Even before the changes champions that bought Trinity Force were paying for stats that weren't efficient. No one does AP Irelia, but people dealt with buying an AP item. No one builds crit Hecarim, but both before the changes and now people pay for a crit item. That's the identity of Trinity Force; it has all sorts of different stats for champions who want a little bit of a bunch of different stats, which tends to be bruisers.
Poske (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=delonix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MmfcGvM5,comment-id=001a000000000000000200000000,timestamp=2016-02-22T20:09:02.560+0000) > > I mean, you can check champion.gg yourself. Trinity force is in the most common and highest winrate builds for irelia, jax, nasus, hecarim (top and jungle). I guess there are lots of bad players, and the most successful players are also bad (lol). Trinity is item which you get once you are like 4,0 and the game is already on tilt-.- And irelia highest win has Regablade... And as for jax build Most ideal Build is Regablade > Gunblade > Sterak > Warmog > Situational item those who build trinity are outdated
Irelia's highest winrate build does have Rageblade. It also has Trinity Force. Your claim about Jax and about people being "outdated" got me thinking. It's true that people can be slow to adapt. It certainly doesn't help that building Trinity Force is apparently the best path to success on fighters like Irelia and Jax. So who faces such intense competition that not adapting would mean a real disadvantage? The only thing I can think of is pro players. I took a look over at Probuilds.net, and it looks like Trinity Force is still doing solid on both Jax and Irelia. It isn't being built every game, which suggests that it's now more efficient to build Rageblade or Gunblade in some scenarios. However, Trinity Force is still being built quite often. Players like MaRin, ZionSpartan, Voyboy, and Faker have built Trinity Force on Jax this patch. Players like SoaR, Vizicsacsi, and Acorn have built Trinity Force on Irelia this patch. As far as I can tell, neither pro players nor plat+ ranked players are building Warmog's on Jax. While I'd be happy to be wrong about this and concede that you are probably ahead of the general curve from champion.gg, I'm much less inclined to think that your game knowledge is better than that of pro players, some of whom have coaches to help them with things like item build and all of whom face intense competition that would punish them for making any mistakes, like spending 3800 gold on Trinity Force instead of Sterak's Gage and a Titan's Belt.
: So they just decided to reduce stats bruisers want and therefor give stats that adc want on it for no reason at all? Sure, thats much better... Fact stays that the changes made it way less attracive for most of the previous users, as many actually did use the ap, and prettymuch all really loved AS, and ad also is great for them. Crit is the one stat most of the old trinity users didn't give a damn about as it was way to unreliable as you wouldn't reach high numbers, and it isn't the best stat without lots of ad/as/critdamage on top anyway, while most trinity users only built trinity and maybe another of item. So all stats non-ADCs care about have been reduced/removed, and the one stat only adc care about has been doubled. Cdr is nice every single champ in the game. Also, i haven't seen a good irelia or jax getting trinity anymoe, nor nasus. gp gets it for obvios reasons, and heca also still gets it cuase he never scaled well with as and his ap scaleings were compareable low aswell, thoough i still see many hecarim useing iceborn instead since the changes. And for BC, for some reason the AD was increased aswel as the cost, and the defense decreased. It made it alot worse for juggernauts and bruisers that mostly valued the shred, cdr, mobillity and hp, while it became an interesting armor-pen option for phsical DDs, or it would be if it wasn't so damn expensive. Right now it feels bad on any champ for me unless i'm ahead and can aford to pay 3500g for little defense on a jugger/bruiser, or for little ad on an adc/assasin. At this point, it would be way better to split it up in two items, one givng less hp and more ad, the other giving more hp and less ad and adding a switch funktion like we have on the hydras.
Thanks for the reply. After I little bit of digging, I found that it's much clearer why the changes to Trinity Force were made. The changes weren't targeted at Trinity Force at all, it just inherited the stat changes from the component items. Phage had its AD lowered by 5 because it's a bruiser item, not an ADC item. Zeal had its crit chance doubled from 10% to 20% and its attack speed lowered to make it more of an ADC item. Sheen had its AP removed and its mana increased and got CDR, making it significantly better on bruisers who wanted to build Sheen but not Lichbane. The overall changes might have made Trinity Force slightly less appealing to bruisers, but that doesn't mean that Riot had any intention of making Trinity Force the ADC Sheen item, so trying to call them out on that doesn't make any sense. Crit might not be great for Bruisers, but they've always paid for crit when building Trinity Force. And for the AD/AP/AS that bruisers want, they now get Guinsoo's, which is ridiculously strong. I don't think all of the Trinity Force users I listed were getting it, but I know at least Irelia and Jax love it. Trinity Force is about more than raw stats, which is one reason why it's always going to be more of a bruiser item than a traditional marksman item. The two passives are fantastic on most bruisers. Bonus movement speed when you're hitting something means you can't get kited as easily, and Spellblade works great with the high base AD of bruisers. CDR is okay on every champ, but it's significantly better on champions with a lot of strong abilities. Traditional marksmen who are autoattack reliant might like CDR, but it's way down on their stat priority list because most of their damage is coming from autoattacks, which are modified by AD, Attack Speed, and crits. Bruisers, on the other hand, tend to love CDR because it allows them to gapclose more, CC more, and put out more damage. As for who is building Trinity Force, champion.gg lists it in the most common and highest winrate builds of all of the champs I listed. Hecarim top and jungle both use Trinity Force more often than IBG and win more often with Trinity Force than IBG. If you have a source for good irelias or jaxes saying Trinity Force isn't worth building anymore, that would be cool. For the Black Cleaver, the cost increase is partially due to the increased value of the stats now that it builds out of Caulfield's instead of Kindlegem, and partially is a nerf targeted at juggernauts. Deadman's Plate has been receiving a bunch of nerfs for the same reason: juggernauts are supposed to be low mobility, low cc, high damage, and high health. With the Black Cleaver and Deadman's Plate, they were still low on cc, but now had high damage, high health, and high mobility. The Black Cleaver still has all of the things that juggernauts and bruisers want though: shred, cdr, mobility, and hp. The Black Cleaver is still being built on juggernauts like Garen, Illaoi, and Darius. Sort of tangential to your last point, the Hydras probably won't be free to switch anymore after the next patch.
Poske (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=delonix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MmfcGvM5,comment-id=001a0000000000000002,timestamp=2016-02-22T04:22:14.521+0000) > > I actually think "Tis a nice day" is right about this. Here are the changes: [5.22 ](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-522-notes#patch-Trinity-Force)& [5.24](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-524-notes#patch-Trinity-Force). > > In the 5.22 changes, there's no context that I can find, but the changes are notably listed under "Items" and not "Marksman Itemization," where all of the "marksman items" are listed. In the 5.24 changes, Riot comes right out and says Trinity Force is "used far less as a true marksman item." > > The increased crit and decreased attack speed, attack damage, and movement speed do seem like changes geared towards marksmen, but it's important to keep in mind that outside of Corki and Ezreal, the passive effects of Trinity Force are really strong for bruisers (or fighters, juggernauts, whatever you want to call them). Irelia and Jax are still building Trinity Force, as are Gangplank, Nasus, Hecarim, and probably others. CDR is also generally better on fighters than marksmen, and fighters with AP and AD scalings, like Jax, Irelia, etc., also got the new Guinsoo's, which is amazing. > > I'm not sure what your point is about the Black Cleaver. I don't remember any changes that would make marksmen buy it more than bruisers. Correction irelia jax nasus hecarim (unless its toplane hecarim) are no longer building trinity Of course if someone is a bad player then he is just bad ...
I mean, you can check champion.gg yourself. Trinity force is in the most common and highest winrate builds for irelia, jax, nasus, hecarim (top and jungle). I guess there are lots of bad players, and the most successful players are also bad (lol).
: Really cool thread, you've got my mind working now coming up with random stuff about ~~Ao Shin~~ Aurelion Sol. I just hope that he isn't a supp though, I want a mage that just does damage lol
Well, the last two mages (Azir and Vel'koz) came out before Bard and Braum respectively, so it's not a stretch to assume that Aurelion Sol will be more mage oriented. On the other hand, even "a mage that just does damage," like Vel'koz, can be a potent support. There's also a question of whether there is room for more strategically unique mages, especially after the immobile mage update.
: They changed Trinity force to be more marksmen oriented the same patch as the huge marksmen update. They don't have to say anything to make it clear that they changed it so that Marksmen would buy it more instead of Bruisers. Same with Black Cleaver. They don't just make drastic changes like that for no reason especially during a big of an update as that one
I actually think "Tis a nice day" is right about this. Here are the changes: [5.22 ](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-522-notes#patch-Trinity-Force)& [5.24](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-524-notes#patch-Trinity-Force). In the 5.22 changes, there's no context that I can find, but the changes are notably listed under "Items" and not "Marksman Itemization," where all of the "marksman items" are listed. In the 5.24 changes, Riot comes right out and says Trinity Force is "used far less as a true marksman item." The increased crit and decreased attack speed, attack damage, and movement speed do seem like changes geared towards marksmen, but it's important to keep in mind that outside of Corki and Ezreal, the passive effects of Trinity Force are really strong for bruisers (or fighters, juggernauts, whatever you want to call them). Irelia and Jax are still building Trinity Force, as are Gangplank, Nasus, Hecarim, and probably others. CDR is also generally better on fighters than marksmen, and fighters with AP and AD scalings, like Jax, Irelia, etc., also got the new Guinsoo's, which is amazing. I'm not sure what your point is about the Black Cleaver. I don't remember any changes that would make marksmen buy it more than bruisers.
: Ashe support died with the rework.
Actually, Ashe support was significantly stronger right after the rework. She couldn't crit, but did additional damage to champs when she slowed them. Her reworked passive allowed her to slow champs with no mana cost, her reworked hawkshot no longer had part of her power budget invested in bonus gold from minions, and she could scout anywhere on the map. Q could be activated at 1 stack and increased the slow amount. It's the changes since the rework that have made Ashe less viable as a support. Building crit is good on her again, her slow has been reduced unless you have lots of crit, and her Q can only be activated at max stacks and doesn't increase the slow.
Rioter Comments
Smelp (NA)
: Seriously...Why do we not have 8 bans.
8 is a weird number to ask for. The two main justifications for an increase in the number of bans are that everyone should get 1 ban (for a total of 10) and that the number of bans should scale with the number of champions in the game (which would be like 14ish as there were 55 available champions when Draft mode was first released with 6 bans and there are now 129, but people usually only ask for 10).
FoxPlays (NA)
: See this would be a good idea...if they have specific taunts for champ select. Champs like Jhin and Tahm have so many taunts .-. Plus like others have stated...some champs don't have taunts that would be appropriate?
{{champion:51}} "Do you want the good cop, or the bad cop?" No cop, obviously, I'm banning you.
: "You low elo players" -coming from a bronze 1 rank. Funny.
Why would the OP care about what low elo players are doing if he or she wasn't a low elo player?
: The "Eye" items need to be buffed.
The "Eye" items shouldn't compete with the tier 3 support items. Supports are basically committed to buying Sightstone right now, so when you look at the "Eye" items vs their tier 3 equivalents, you need to keep in mind that the "Eye" items are effectively 800 gold cheaper, not counting the extra ward. The "reason...to pick one or the other" is that the "Eye" items let you start building other items earlier and give an early vision control advantage. As of my writing this, Aphromoo, Pobelter, and Smoothie have built Eye of the Equinox on Braum, Thresh, and Alistar in the past few hours. Earlier today Noxiak built Eye of the Watchers on Janna. All of these were dynamic queue games, so I don't think it's fair to say that "not a single person in high elo builds them."
: Oh man, i would never get cdr boots in this meta. With how good swiftness boots are, i honestly cant think of a tank support who wouldnt want them. The roaming power is just way too strong on those items compared to the measily 10% cdr i can avoid altogether on my boots and just get a simply superior item.
It might not be relevant anymore with the Headbutt Pulverize combo changes, but Alistar with CDR boots and distortion and the right masteries could have flash up every 180 seconds, which is great for Flash Pulverize. The CDR boots reduce the cooldown of Flash by 30 seconds.
: > [{quoted}](name=Solidair3,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Jc9EAkmU,comment-id=000300000001000200000000,timestamp=2016-02-17T02:47:31.286+0000) > > because he has a 60% winrate. > > Also, they don't look like super hard nerfs if we're being honest. They are factoring in the item nerfs, I think. The turtle shield nerf is huge. In a long skirmish that could be 200-300+ effective health lost.
Unless I'm mistaken, there's no change at rank 1 and a -20 change at max rank of turtle stance. If you have 100 armor and 100 mr, that's 40 effective health per activation, so the "long skirmish" would need to be 14-27 seconds to get to 200-300 effective health at 40% cdr, or 13-25 seconds at 45% cdr. That's a really long skirmish. It's also important to take into account the AP you get from Runic Echoes. Compared to a Devourer build Udyr, Runic Echoes Udyr has +30 to his shield at all ranks (assuming they build the same amount of AP after the jungle item). This nerf can be seen as a reaction to Udyr's synergy with the recently added Runic Echoes.
: Ardent Censer
Ardent Censer is best on champions that can shield or heal multiple champions at the same time, so Alistar, Karma, and Sona. Janna and Soraka get honorable mentions because they have basic abilities than can proc Censer as well as ults that can proc it on the whole team. It also has some nice synergy with Aegis of the Legion. Still, that's 5 champions, and sometimes other items have higher priority for them, like tanky items on Alistar or Lichbane on Sona. It's a pretty niche item, but I don't think it's underused.
: I'm just trying to get her "counter-attack" ability to be in line with other abilities of the same kind (ex. Morgana, Nocturne, Sivir). None of those abilities actually do anything if you use it without actually blocking a skill. However, Fiora still attacks even when her counter isn't triggered by anything. To refute your statement, Fiora does not stand still for absolutely no benefit. Enemy players must play around her ability and not attack her *at all* during those 0.75 seconds in order to make themselves useful and effective. For other "counter" abilities, enemies are able to at least basic attack to whittle you away while waiting out your spellshield. In Fiora's case, she becomes the ultimate skillshot blocker, more potent than Braum, and rivaled only by Kayle, whose shield is admittedly longer, albeit very, very easy to spot and on a much longer cooldown. Even when compared to Kayle's ultimate, however, Fiora's counter-attack still has the free damage component. Kayle's ult becomes effectively useless if nobody attacks her shielded target for the duration. Fiora still gets benefit for the same type of ability. And therein lies my problem. As a side note, I have yet to be able to even 1v3 a good fed Fiora, only in a 1v4 or 1v5 have I ever been able to down her. Thank you for your input. I appreciate your addition to the discussion.
I think Fizz's Playful/Trickster is a better analog for Riposte than Nocturne's or Sivir's spellshield or Morgana's shield or Kayle's ult. Nocturne and Sivir can only block 1 ability, and have a secondary effect based on whether they block something or not. Morgana's Black Shield is actually the least similar to these, as it can be cast on allies and blocks all cc but a finite amount of magic damage and no physical damage. Kayle's ult does block all incoming damage, but no cc, and like Morgana's shield, it can be cast on allies. Fizz's Playful/Trickster allows him to dodge all spells and autoattacks for 0.75 seconds, and whether he dodges something or not, he gets a dash and some damage. Fiora's Riposte seems a lot closer to this than to a spellshield. Fiora's Riposte is actually a little bit worse than Playful/Trickster, so bringing it "in line with other abilities of the same kind" would probably mean buffing it. Fizz has a higher mana cost and no hard CC, but on a lower cooldown at all levels, he can dodge turret shots, the ability can be reactivated early, and it has 2 dashes in addition to the damage.
: Riot Please Add Karma to the Mage Update List
To your first point, Riot has been pretty clear about why Vel'koz is on the list. Here's a small quote from [here ](http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/01/red-post-collection-mid-year-mage.html)that summarizes it pretty clearly: >Vel'Koz - Really distinct to play as, cohesive, feels fair to play against. Doesn't bring enough distinct to a team though, so lacks a clear strategic niche or specialized tool offered. Goal with him will be to offer clearer situations where he's the right pick when you want AP poke. Karma isn't covered nearly as well, but Riot has already explained why she isn't in this update (same source): >We decided we'd be best off focusing on a couple of sub types of mage here, which are basically sustained damage mages and pick mages. Artillery mages (Xerath, Ziggs etc with really long range) and supportive mages (Ori, Karma etc) are groups we might tackle later, though it wouldn't surprise me if there was more value in tackling a different group instead (assassins or some types of tank instead). On top of this, Karma might see some small changes, she just isn't one of the 6 they picked for larger changes. I think that doing a little research can bring clarity to a lot of questions. On a more personal note, I feel that Karma is also "one of the most balanced, and unique champions...in the game," so I'm not sure why you think she should be a higher priority for rework than Vel'koz.
Evewynn (NA)
: Don't forget the spell vamp quints. I actually run them on some safe laners like malz and morg, even though in general they are pretty weak and way too expensive.
Runes are already mentioned in the original post, I was just trying to cover things that were not mentioned.
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delonix

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