Insania (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=donger b0t,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=AnObL88Z,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-02-01T22:41:40.519+0000) > > How can you have a legitimate conversation with your players about matchmaking and MMR when you keep MMR hidden? Please make player's MMR public so that we are empowered to have an actual discussion on matchmaking not based on anecdotes. The integrity of the division system will remain in tact, it will still feel good to climb divisions even if our MMR stays the same.. But we need transparency, we deserve to know where we truly fall and how we are actually being matched with others. Otherwise all of the work you are doing just feels in bad faith. > > If you are proud of your work this season on the matchmaking adjustments then stand behind them and make player's MMR public so an actual discussion can take place. The reason what you are saying is a really bad idea is because giving the ability to see someone's mmr can bring conflict as well as making the lowest mmr person in team a target of bullying for no reason. That would lead on that person performing bad or even the whole team because of preoccupation. Would be like this "Crap why did I get the noob again i will never rise" or "You noob how did you get so low mmr, hahahaha" or w/e. All this would lead on behavior issues. Also you already know where you are standing without seeing it. Are you a silver 4 getting matched up with gold or silver 1 or a silver 1 getting matched up with bronze. Do you earn less lp from winning than losing from loss ? All these indicates where you stand.
> The reason what you are saying is a really bad idea is because giving the ability to see someone's mmr can bring conflict as well as making the lowest mmr person in team a target of bullying for no reason. Doesn't this already happen with ranks? Definitely happens to me. > Also you already know where you are standing without seeing it. Are you a silver 4 getting matched up with gold or silver 1 or a silver 1 getting matched up with bronze. Do you earn less lp from winning than losing from loss ? All these indicates where you stand. My point is that doesn't indicate where we stand - we can't know where we stand because MMR and how matchmaking works is completely hidden from us. Any guess we have is just a guess. There are many imaginable matchmaking scenarios where a silver and a gold get matched together. Frequently what happens in my games is our team will have a Diamond, two golds, and a plat. Their team has three diamonds two plats. Or vice versa, whatever. What conclusions can I draw from this? There are so many possible matchmaking scenarios where this would occur, we really do not know what's going on. Players are confused, LP gains have not been consistent. Transparency is a good thing and would increase the quality of matchmaking.
: Ranked quality is dead and gone, NA ranked is no more.
They need to make MMR public. Everyone is extremely confused about matchmaking. Feels terrible and yet we can't even talk about it properly because we have to rely on our own anecdotes, because Riot keeps the actual meat of the system private. Please make MMR public, transparency is needed, and will increase the quality of matchmaking.
: Fix matchmaking please.
Everyone is extremely confused about matchmaking S9. Is it broken? Working as intended? Make MMR public! We deserve transparency.
AntiSJW (NA)
: Its not that positional ranks are bad per se-- (S9 is S8 but worse)
MMR needs to be made public again. People are extremely confused about matchmaking to say the least and Riot continues to keep us in the dark. Transparency will increase the quality of matchmaking. Not overly complicated positional divisions.
: There is nothing wrong with the new Ranked System.
Seems like the big problem people have with the system is the matchmaking. Not sure what "fixes" are being rolled out for that. Its almost not even worth discussing while MMR is private. We are completely in the dark. Who cares about the climbing the division system when no one has any idea whats going on with MMR, and Riot just completely hides what's going on.
: Bring back the old system. Positional Ranks need to go
Why are there downvotes on this thread? OP is at least making an argument and not just raging. I agree this new system is worse. It is far more complex, for at best questionable gain. Not sure why Riot is digging deeper with divisions when they pretty clearly made the quality of matchmaking worse. It will be interesting to see what they do next.
: I don't see a mention of MMR anywhere. Are you seeing things I don't? Don't object to something for the sake of objecting. All that statement is saying is that he is more skilled than he thinks he is and it doesn't matter that he is matched against higher ranked players because those players are boosted apes anyways. I don't base this on MMRs. I base it on my experience with boosted apes from bronze to platinum.
Its not unfair to assume you are talking about MMR here. Particularly as OP is talking about matchmaking, the matchmaking mechanic behind "worse than their ranks require" would be MMR. And if you are just talking about your experience with "boosted apes", it isn't really relevant to OPs topic.
: What does any of the things I said have anything to do with MMR?
> Because you are better than you think and those silvers are worse than what their ranks require.
: Because you are better than you think and those silvers are worse than what their ranks require. They are coming down and you are going up in skill. The more you play with better players, the better you get. That's what "climbing" is. You don't learn by playing with players at the same skill level as yours. You learn by playing with better players and getting to their skill level in time.
I'm sorry but what information are you basing this on? MMR is private. We really do not know how matchmaking works. There are many possible matchmaking scenarios where OP would be placed in that game.
: > [{quoted}](name=donger b0t,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2WK7ur43,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-03T09:59:09.831+0000) > > Your argument here is players will rage with more information. Players will rage no matter what. Transparency is valuable and trust is important, and at the moment we are left completely in the dark. We are not in a position to even discuss matchmaking, beyond our anecdotes. Do you think a lack of accountability improves matchmaking? Is good matchmaking something you think is important? My argument is that people would still use anecdotes to say the system doesn't work. Even if handed the algorithm, they'd say it should be improved to do X faster/better, which is the exact same conversation that can happen today without knowing the algorithm. A comparable example is Critical Strike Change. We know the rough formula for its psuedo RNG - every time you auto and don't crit your odds of a critical strike on the next attack go up. Does knowing the formula factor into discussions on if Critical Strikes feel good in the game? Does it make people feel any better about the level 2 Tryndamere getting a few lucky crits and winning the lane off of that? RNG is comparable because no matter how good your match making system is there will be factors outside Riot's control that will make it seem like it's not working. > For all we know they are testing experimental algorithms on us like Facebook does with their timeline algorithms. I don't want that. Transparency is extremely important, and it is something you should want. You mean like how they experimented with role based matchmaking all Summer in Normals? Did you feel incredibly betrayed by that revelation? Did you feel the Riot needed to warn people ahead of time? Facebook is an entirely different beast for a plethora of reasons that should be immediately obvious to anyone with even a shallow understanding of the data these two companies have. > If Riot was proud of the system they put all this time into, they would make MMR public. They are also likely worried it will ruin the integrity of their division system - which it wouldn't. Climbing ranks would still feel good. Many companies are proud of systems they don't make public. Public vs private is really only a factor in security, where the best systems are one that you can make public knowing that it doesn't make the system any weaker (as is the case with how Encryption works). Furthermore, having MMR *would* hurt the division system's feeling of progression, as we all know it's a hollow shell and it's the MMR that really matters. Division would only matter for end of season rewards, for everything else people would use MMR.
> My argument is that people would still use anecdotes to say the system doesn't work. Even if handed the algorithm, they'd say it should be improved to do X faster/better, which is the exact same conversation that can happen today without knowing the algorithm. People will use anecdotes no matter what. People will also rage no matter what. So it turns out that is not a reason for not releasing MMR. However, releasing MMR will make Riot more accountable. More accountability is a good thing. Do you not agree with this? > RNG is comparable because no matter how good your match making system is there will be factors outside Riot's control that will make it seem like it's not working. Matchmaking algorithms and "RNG" algorithms used in crit chance I don't think are comparable. First of all, sounds like the way the crit algorithm works is somewhat public. WIth MMR we are completely in the dark, and it hurts the integrity of the entire game. Matchmaking is also the foundation of the entire game, its a team game after all. I'm also not saying dump the precise algorithm on us. But let us know our MMR so we have at least some idea of whats going on. > You mean like how they experimented with role based matchmaking all Summer in Normals? Did you feel incredibly betrayed by that revelation? Did you feel the Riot needed to warn people ahead of time? Yes, definitely. I wouldn't say "incredibly" betrayed, but I deserved to know. Lets say they are experimenting right now? I would definitely like to know, and I believe Riot owes their players transparency. If the quality of my games are wonky in part because of experimentation, I would like to know that's whats going on and not be entirely in the dark. People are extremely confused with this stuff, and apparently for good reason as experimentation is going on unbeknowst to the players. Importantly, I think the quality of matchmaking would improve if there was more accountability. > Facebook is an entirely different beast for a plethora of reasons that should be immediately obvious to anyone with even a shallow understanding of the data these two companies have. Facebook definitely is different than Riot. But in both cases trust is an issue and transparency is needed. I would agree the stakes are higher with Facebook. But in terms of the quality of both the products, transparency makes the users experience better and builds needed trust between the users and the company > Many companies are proud of systems they don't make public. Public vs private is really only a factor in security, where the best systems are one that you can make public knowing that it doesn't make the system any weaker (as is the case with how Encryption works). The thing here is that MMR used to be public. Usually a company's private systems start private. And regardless this argument ignores the particularity of the MMR system. There are positive arguments for why it should be public, regardless of any other company and their systems. > Furthermore, having MMR would hurt the division system's feeling of progression, as we all know it's a hollow shell and it's the MMR that really matters. Division would only matter for end of season rewards, for everything else people would use MMR. It sounds like you are in fact a not a fan of the division system. The system rewards the grind, and I think the grind would still be rewarding despite MMR being public. In fact it would clarify the division system. Instead the division system gets more and more complex, and for what? Apparently to improve matchmaking. It is the wrong approach.
: Even if they did, I doubt it would help you out. * Honor level is a non-factor in Matchmaking, since it doesn't relate to a players skill. * Premades already get MMR adjustments. You'd argue with whether these MMR adjustments are enough, and the answer to that can vary. In lower ranks, they can be too oppressive, making it harder for friends to climb together than solo. * Individual MMR would let you see how big the gap on any team is (aka: which teams are more likely to have/need a hard carry), but the Average MMR of both teams will be very similar for them to be matched together in the first place. At best, you get all this information and you'd argue "Well, ***I*** think it could be better if it did *this*." - to which you'd be stuck waiting on Riot's reply of why they don't do that. You'd also be more likely to only look at a lopsided game and look at the MMR to find fault with it, rather than looking at a very close game to see if the MMR was what you expect. You'd likely forget in the moment that MMR is a result of *all* the games a player has played, rather than just the one match you played with them.
> [{quoted}](name=DrCyanide,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2WK7ur43,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-02T11:36:31.075+0000) > > Even if they did, I doubt it would help you out. > > * Honor level is a non-factor in Matchmaking, since it doesn't relate to a players skill. > * Premades already get MMR adjustments. You'd argue with whether these MMR adjustments are enough, and the answer to that can vary. In lower ranks, they can be too oppressive, making it harder for friends to climb together than solo. > * Individual MMR would let you see how big the gap on any team is (aka: which teams are more likely to have/need a hard carry), but the Average MMR of both teams will be very similar for them to be matched together in the first place. > > At best, you get all this information and you'd argue "Well, ***I*** think it could be better if it did *this*." - to which you'd be stuck waiting on Riot's reply of why they don't do that. You'd also be more likely to only look at a lopsided game and look at the MMR to find fault with it, rather than looking at a very close game to see if the MMR was what you expect. You'd likely forget in the moment that MMR is a result of *all* the games a player has played, rather than just the one match you played with them. Your argument here is players will rage with more information. Players will rage no matter what. Transparency is valuable and trust is important, and at the moment we are left completely in the dark. We are not in a position to even discuss matchmaking, beyond our anecdotes. Do you think a lack of accountability improves matchmaking? Is good matchmaking something you think is important? For all we know they are testing experimental algorithms on us like Facebook does with their timeline algorithms. I don't want that. Transparency is extremely important, and it is something you should want. If Riot was proud of the system they put all this time into, they would make MMR public. They are also likely worried it will ruin the integrity of their division system - which it wouldn't. Climbing ranks would still feel good.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ripikou,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A62fPbe4,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T08:01:34.004+0000) > > I can't find a source, but Riot said that their MMR system is designed to make everything 50%. Which would mean it has to skew teams to make it harder for you to win consecutively. Which is also why a plat could get stuck in gold, silver in bronze etc.. If they wanted a truer ranking system, they would put people of the same RANK, not MMR, in a game and let people win or lose based on that. Not you hitting a win streak and getting to your promos (which feels toxic to begin with because winning should prove you deserve to get out of the place you're at) and then the system having to put the odds against you to ensure you struggle for another win. Solo play is plagued with random enough events that it doesn't need something actively trying to make you win or lose. People want to compare the ranks to chess, since it use to be that way, that's fine. Go back to that system. Go back to you gaining or losing points based on a win or loss. Also, why not start everyone at a higher start point? Most people will get better playing with better people. as opposed to playing against better people while trying to drag people around. If you truely couldn't handle yourself in a rank then you would eventually fall, just like if you were truly better you would eventually climb. Just the latter takes way longer, could take 20 games could take 2000 games depending on your skill difference. But lets say you were a bronze player playing in plat, if it took you 2000 games to fall back to bronze at least you would innately learn things that you wouldn't have learned just fiestaing it up in bronze level. every single MMR system out there is meant to push to a 50% winrate since it tries to put you into matches where people are evenly matched. Putting people of the same rank doesn't mean much when you will literally hit a wall where everyone is just insanely better than you making every match feel just pointless to even attempt. That is what happens when you decide to just use ranks and nothing more. It's just easy sailing, ruining games for every single person until you reach the rank where you are unable to do anything at all and everyone will just destroy you because you got to your rank not due to true skill but by beating people that had no chance whatsoever of beating you. You learn very little by being destroyed every single game. I have no idea where you think that a bronze player will learn stuff from playing against plats. All the bronze player will see is someone who is so much better than them and just get completely and utterly frustrated. That is the reality of things. You decide what is better trying to pair up people with equal skill which will mean each game will be pretty much 50/50? or just match people with the same rank and hope to god that is enough? in my personal experience matching people purely from rank just leads to even worst matchmaking and worst games overall for everyone except the people who are at both extremes of the ladder
No matter what there is some skill rating that determines matchmaking. Whether its your rank, or your MMR, the number (or numbers) that determines your matchmaking should be made public to players. In League we are told this number is our MMR. At the moment we really do not know how matchmaking works. Players are completely in the dark and it leads to confusion, frustration, and erosion of trust. Before any discussion of potential matchmaking systems, we have to acknowledge that we don't even know how matchmaking really works. But I can tell you I do not want to be a part of experimental matchmaking algorithms as my game quality suffers, and there is no guarantee that this is not the case ATM.
: Ranked 2019 — /dev Update #2
How can you have a legitimate conversation with your players about matchmaking and MMR when you keep MMR hidden? Please make player's MMR public so that we are empowered to have an actual discussion on matchmaking not based on anecdotes. The integrity of the division system will remain in tact, it will still feel good to climb divisions even if our MMR stays the same.. But we need transparency, we deserve to know where we truly fall and how we are actually being matched with others. Otherwise all of the work you are doing just feels in bad faith. If you are proud of your work this season on the matchmaking adjustments then stand behind them and make player's MMR public so an actual discussion can take place.
sketchy1 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=MD GreenThumb,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A62fPbe4,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-31T10:58:19.042+0000) > > They want to keep forcing people to grind more and more. Their system is total crap, if there was any transparency then maybe games would have some integrity. Or it would reveal Riot matchmaking for the communist trash it is. its funny because when someone one time actually figured out the exact mmr formula riot changed it.... because someone figured it out.
Wow, I wasn't aware of this. When did it happen? Did Riot officially say anything about it?
Aitikian (NA)
: MMR is hidden because it doesn't take into affect all variables it only takes into consideration win % and winning/loosing streaks if you loose 5 games in a row due to internet feeders or afkrs and get 5 "aces" your MMR drops the same.
As far as matchmaking goes, what other variables are there? My point here is that you can't really even speak on it, and neither can I - it is hidden from us completely. We are not empowered to have a discussion about matchmaking, only our anecdotes. My understanding of the Riot given reason for keeping MMR private is overall with a 50% WR your MMR will hover about the same, however you will still be able to climb divisions with that WR. People like to watch their numbers go up so have them climb divisions even if their MMR hovers around the same area, until their division approximates their MMR. So the reason given so far is psychological, to create a more rewarding climb. Unfortunately there are a few very bad negative psychological consequences of hiding our MMR from us, namely confusion, frustration, and erosion of trust.
: Ranked 2019 — /dev Update #1
How can you have a legitimate conversation with your players about matchmaking and MMR when you keep MMR hidden? Please make player's MMR public so that we are empowered to have an actual discussion on matchmaking not based on anecdotes. The integrity of the division system will remain in tact, it will still feel good to climb divisions even if our MMR stays the same.. But we need transparency, we deserve to know where we truly fall and how we are actually being matched with others. Otherwise all of the work you are doing just feels in bad faith. If you are proud of your work this season on the matchmaking adjustments then stand behind them and make player's MMR public so an actual discussion can take place.
Rioter Comments
Shadòw (EUW)
: ofc Normal matchmaking isn't the best. it has a seperate mmr, and often high elo players queue with their friends who are low elo in normals, resulting in such games. that's why you often have players of way different elos in normals. and well when your Ranked and Normal MMR is around gold/plat you aren't really a Silver player anyway.
> [{quoted}](name=Shadòw,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OnGOH1mm,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-07-07T00:51:20.593+0000) > and well when your Ranked and Normal MMR is around gold/plat you aren't really a Silver player anyway. This is false because it implies rank means nothing. Actually committing to the grind for gold/plat should mean something and factor into matchmaking. Once again all MMR should be tethered somewhat to rank. If high rank people don't care about winning or losing in norms they shouldn't care about being matched appropriately in norms. Seems to be to be completely reasonable to not want to play with/vs lowgold/high plat players, in norms and specially in ranked. If I deserve to be in gold then let me climb out of silver by playing vs silver. Otherwise the rank seems virtually meaningless to begin with. I think the system clearly has reducing long queue times for low plat+ in mind. > [{quoted}](name=RoguePanda99,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OnGOH1mm,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-07T00:47:42.182+0000) >If you're me, a diamond player, and I'm playing normals, it's because I wanna relax. That's my point, i don't want to play with plat+ players for precisely this reason. My games come down to which plat+ is "relaxing" more, that's just silly. Once again as the high mmr on your team, combined with the fact that you don't really care about winning, specially in norms, I'm sure you are fine with the matchmaking. For us on the lower end of the spectrum it is poor matchmaking, thus not very fun and often quite boring. If you don't care about winning and play norms to relax what is the problem with matching you closer to your rank? Seems like you shouldn't care either way. I could see how shitting on silver players is relaxing but obviously that sucks for us.
P Z (NA)
: I would say Rito places too much priority on queue time reduction. I mean, we're playing from computers connected to the internet. There's plenty to do while we wait, and making quality matches would give more incentive for most people to play League. In any case, matchmaking in ranked is significantly better so if that's what you want, that's where you go. Also, your rationale for playing ranked strikes me as denial. If you don't play to be ranked, again, that shouldn't be a problem as long as you're investing maximum effort. Just don't look at your rank, and play. Simple.
> [{quoted}](name=P Z,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OnGOH1mm,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2017-07-06T05:42:25.384+0000) > > I would say Rito places too much priority on queue time reduction. I mean, we're playing from computers connected to the internet. There's plenty to do while we wait, and making quality matches would give more incentive for most people to play League. > > In any case, matchmaking in ranked is significantly better so if that's what you want, that's where you go. Also, your rationale for playing ranked strikes me as denial. If you don't play to be ranked, again, that shouldn't be a problem as long as you're investing maximum effort. Just don't look at your rank, and play. Simple. But doesn't everyone want quality matchmaking in every mode? And if matchmaking is based on MMR what makes ranked matchmaking so much superior? Regardless I am entitled to not want to play ranked and also enjoy quality matchmaking.
: Annnnd another uneven game where people had roughly the same ranks in gold... jungle mid and support were feeding all game... could not stop them. I end up going 3-1-3 but it doesn't matter because the enemy team has control of the entire map and my teammates have generously given the enemy adc 7 kills. We can't get any turrets, they get our entire jungle... all the objectives... dragons, rift herald, baron... etc... This game is so far from fun anymore. Far too many games were my teammates are the biggest obstacle to my team's success. My top laner last game ran an experience quint, and still got out leveled by the enemy top laner... jungler went 1-6. support went 1-7. mid was 1-4... This game is inanely frustrating. At one point we got in a fight bot lane, our mid ori is about to die and lulu ults me. I was way too far away from ori for it to be a misclick either, so my support sees the mid laner dying, and ults me while I'm full health... support kept dying in lane and around the map with summs and their ult up..... Like... I feel like there's a conspiracy to make me toxic in this game. Why am I marked as the bad guy for pointing out stupid things people do? It's not like I'm telling people to kill themselves either... I just want them to know what they're doing wrong because it seems obvious that they don't know any better.
> [{quoted}](name=DB Gaming,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mMFUIpP4,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-07-06T05:14:12.014+0000) > > Annnnd another uneven game where people had roughly the same ranks in gold... Unfortunately anecdotes about poor games you've had are not too constructive for a conversation about the overall quality of matchmaking, although I understand they are frustrating and it feels good to vent. > [{quoted}](name=Slythion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mMFUIpP4,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-06T04:52:21.231+0000) > > Here's what his original post made me think: > > Few (but granted, *some*) games are not very balanced. Not so much if you're plat or below, but once you get to higher plat or into diamond then you experience more and more imbalanced games. This is because the average skill between players in these higher elos differ, and you can find several high-plat players who are better than low-diamond players. I think you are actually wrong about this. The skill gap between plat-silver is probably larger than that between diamond-plat. Even in terms of knowing how to let other players carry you. And I think the MMR in lower rank is much more chaotic/inaccurate in terms of true skill than in higher ranks.
: if you're seeing plat players in your games and you're silver, it means their normals mmr is silver, which means in most games they play they are playing at the same skill level as you. Which makes sense, because they're playing in normals. if they were tryharding, they'd be playing ranked. I think you're making a big fuss over nothing.
> [{quoted}](name=RoguePanda99,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OnGOH1mm,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-07-06T05:15:26.055+0000) > > if you're seeing plat players in your games and you're silver, it means their normals mmr is silver, which means in most games they play they are playing at the same skill level as you. Which makes sense, because they're playing in normals. if they were tryharding, they'd be playing ranked. I think you're making a big fuss over nothing. So basically you are throwing me into games with plats who are not playing at their skill level, which often could be understood as "trolling". And so then the quality of my games is even worse, as often the game comes down to if its my teams plat or theirs is trolling or trying some silly build. That is the determining factor of who wins and loses a game, and that does not sound healthy in the slightest. You are a D5 who most likely plays a lot of ranked, is often the highest MMR on your team, and doesn't really experience the things I am describing. Try to empathize with me and put yourself in my position.
Breaku (NA)
: If plats are in your normal games, it's because you have similar normal MMR.
> [{quoted}](name=Breaku,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OnGOH1mm,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-07-06T05:10:14.601+0000) > > If plats are in your normal games, it's because you have similar normal MMR. Yes, I understand this, but MMR should not be everything, actually completing grinding to gold/plat is a huge indicator of your skill. Currently it seems like actual rank means very little which is stupid. Give me my end of season rewards if you are throwing me in with gold/plat.
: I am a Silver player, and I don't want to play vs (or with) Plat players
Less of a phobia and more of a preference, I don't play this game to get ranked, but that is a topic for a different thread. Why do you think Rito has the system the way it does? I believe its to lower the queue timers of plat+ players. But a huge part of Riot's goal is to legitimize League as a sport, and poor matchmaking seems to be a huge obstacle in the way of this goal. Can you imagine if Chess matchmaking was as poor as League? Lots of boring stomps.
: I am a Silver player, and I don't want to play vs (or with) Plat players
So for someone who doesn't like playing ranked, I'm just screwed? And even when I did play ranked my MMR was so wonky I would play with mid/low gold/high plat, thus the reason I stopped ranking. Being the silver in games with low gold/high plat is just a horrible experience. Regardless, The burden shouldn't be on me to play ranked if I want good quality matchmaking (which isn't even the case). I know a lot of people like to get destroyed (or carried) by players much higher skill than them, but I would rather have a good game that I enjoy instead of some punishing learning experience, and I believe I am justified in wanting that. And in my experience poor matchmaking is the cause of toxicity. When you feel like what you do actually matters in the game its easier to get into the game as opposed to just getting bored and troll. If I wanted to watch a game with excellent players where what I do doesn't matter I would just watch a stream.
: PSA: Elos dont really exists to Riots system, its all about MMR.
Honestly I do not think riots MMR system is effective. Specially in modes that are not ranked solo/duo. They should somehow tether all MMR to your rank. It is frustrating for me as a silver player (who doesn't like ranked and plays norms/arams) to be playing with mid/high gold, even plat, without getting any of the benefits of playing ranked(skin, border). IMO the grind towards gold/plat is itself a huge skill indicator, and I have not done this, I should not be playing with gold/plat, regardless of MMR. Rank shouldn't be everything but currently it seems like it means nothing for matchmaking. And this poor matchmaking is I think very clearly the biggest contributor to toxicity, seems RIot should have dealt with the matchmaking before rolling out their honor system.
: Seriously... can we ban Aram accounts already? Or just remove Aram.
What they should do IMO is make an official aram ladder, so the aram accts will play vs the aram accts. I understand there is aram mmr but they should just go ahead and make a ladder for aram.
Rioter Comments
Slythion (NA)
: this situation isn't even related to matchmaking, and definitely isn't Riot's fault. Like, how can you blame Riot for that child's attitude?
> [{quoted}](name=Slythion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mMFUIpP4,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-07-06T04:01:35.164+0000) > > this situation isn't even related to matchmaking, and definitely isn't Riot's fault. > > Like, how can you blame Riot for that child's attitude? So do you think matchmaking is in a good place? And if its not don't you see that as a big factor towards game quality/toxicity?
: So matchmaking is still broken.
I agree completely, seems silly to implement an honor system when matchmaking ensures that many if not of your games will be pretty imbalanced. It is the biggest problem for toxicity, what is a silver to do after getting pummeled by a high gold/plat player? It is a problem for its legitimacy as a sport. Can you imagine if chess had matchmaking as uneven as league? It is just a huge problem. This isn't even getting into norms/aram mmr which basically destroys the quality of the games. Silver players do not want to play with high gold/plat, period end of story.
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