Rioter Comments
: Patch 9.12 notes
Is noone talking about how ryze got gutted? I mean point and click root was beyond frustrating but.... _yikes_, he got hit everywhere
: so you removed nexus blitz and the rest of RNG game modes for some auto chess game mode?
Riot likes trying new things. Overall, i think its good. Sure there come modes that we despise, but without this system of trying new things, we never wouldve gotten modes like aram, urf (when it was fun b4 the damage creep), and blitz. We may love or hate the auto chess, but give it a shot: we might like it.
: Epilepsy Causing Skin
I'm not epeliptic but the first time I saw this in Aram my eyes hurts. They need to do sum bout it
: Qiyana Rundown
legit reminds me so much of ozo from vainglory ._.
FireDrizzle (EUNE)
: What i hate about Darius
Darius main here, hi. I get that my champ gets so much hate, and I can see why. However, Darius is, imo, extremely exploitable, and as such, is extremely weak. Here are a few reasons and tips. Darius's two main trading tools are the heal from his q and his 5 stacks bonus ad passive. There are many things you can do to exploit both in all honesty. For his Q, you can dash into him and the damage will only do 35% of it's damage: less than his auto attacks while applying no stack of passive. Champions like jax can easily exploit him and fit in 2 to 3 autos during Darius's Q animation, leaving him a sitting duck. Darius also needs 5 stacks, which means he has to stick close to them for quite a bit, and even with 2 slows (and a pull) in his kit, this is a task. Even when doing the e w-q animation cancel auto combo, thats only 4 stacks. In many cases, its better not to punish this, as committing to a punish allows Darius to get his final stack, which if the enemy has no stickiness or low attack speed, gives him the upper hand. Early ganks shut down Darius, hard. Get ganked level 2, then at level 3-4. Now hes behind in gold, be it from death or from denied cs, and if the Darius is smart, he won't be as aggressive in risk of dying to the jungler. Use this window to buy damage if you are a diver/bruiser, or armor if you are a tank. If the former, you can now poke him down/ do short trades to make sure he can't commit to trades(Ex: camille's e q w, or Aatrox's q and w) . If the latter, it helps surviving disengage, and if you have high base damage, Darius can actually lose this trade (Ex: mundo or kench). Early game, Darius's pull is on a 25 second cooldown. Extremely exploitable once this is missed. If its up, respect it, and back up a bit. Darius has some of the lowest attack speed in the game to help make his passive more fair. To compensate, many Darius players will build tri force over black cleaver. However, that gives them no bulk, making him easily susceptible to poke and to ganks. Either commit or don't commit to trades. Indecision makes it extremely easy for darius to land his outer q. Q is on an 8 second cooldown early game, but is a 3 second cooldown late game. As such, expect him to be scariest mid game. Level one Darius ult's damage is laughable. It does about equal damage as his Q. As such, its more reliable to use it as a gapcloser if anything to get the last stack off (if theyre low enough), and finish them with Q/passive bleed. However, level 11 is when his ult becomes scary, as it'll do half your hp bar. Darius struggles against hard cc mobility, or sustainability. As such, he struggles against teemo (if theyre smart), jax, fiora, renekton, camille, tahm, panth (kinda. A good darius can win this lane easily.), yorick (his wall makes it near impossible to land outer q, and with low attack speed is hard to get out of the wall), urgot, kennon, quinn, vayne, karma, jayce, riven, olaf (is kinda a fair fight, but olaf has upper hand if theyre smart), mundo, garen (do short trades. When hes low enough, just ult him: Darius will be at disadvantage with lack of passive and dashes). There are other "fair" matchups, but i've lost to some really good players. I've lost trades to a morde, trynd, maokai, poppy, so on. I'm not trying to say Darius only has flaws: he has great sustain, excellent zone, wonderful displacement, and so on... but at the massive cost of susceptible to kites and low attack speed. I know that it might feel frustrating to fight Darius sometimes, but I assure you: it really sucks playing Darius as well.
FkValeRly (EUW)
: >being behind on darius that's where it all went wrong fam
> [{quoted}](name=FkValeRly,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JpfsL56I,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-04T20:21:17.896+0000) > > that's where it all went wrong fam believe it or not, really easy to set back juggernauts in general. Just get a lvl 2 gank, then a lvl 3 gank, and congrats, now they cant do anything in lane without risking jungler presence. Use this advantage to build damage items and poke him, so they can't commit to trades and duels.
Ifneth (NA)
: As Darius? Exploit your winning matchup to gain lane control, freezing before first recall to deny minions and pushing afterward to take turret plates. Chunk your opponent for mistake/ and kill them if they make too many. Exploit this lead to extend the cs difference, generate pressure, survive 1v2, and win 2v2. Use this snowballed lead to gain map control, playing so aggressively the enemy jungler must gank your lane or lose the turret, while your jungler freely takes Dragon and ganks other lanes. You will emerge a 4/1/2 Darius up 20 cs and 3 plates, with Trinity Force when everyone else is finishing their first items. Rotate to bot lane and repeat this process with Rift Herald. The enemy must either devote a second person to stopping you or lose a turret, while your team takes the objective for free. Don’t go for montage plays. Once your team has taken Herald, time your splitpush to align with the summon, taking an inner or inhibitor turret or flanking for a dive. At 20 minutes, you will be a 7/3/6 Darius outside their inhibitor turret, up 30 cs, 4 plates, and a solo turret. You will have Trinity Force, Mercury’s Treads, and Titanic Hydra while the enemy is just upgrading their boots. Splitpush botlane one more time, forcing the enemy to coin toss at Baron and lose an inhibitor or lose Baron. Use Baron to splitpush and end the game at 25 minutes. And not a single one of them spent frontlining.
> [{quoted}](name=Ifneth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JpfsL56I,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-06-05T05:02:13.411+0000) > > As Darius? Exploit your winning matchup to gain lane control, freezing before first recall to deny minions and pushing afterward to take turret plates. Chunk your opponent for mistake/ and kill them if they make too many. Exploit this lead to extend the cs difference, generate pressure, survive 1v2, and win 2v2. Use this snowballed lead to gain map control, playing so aggressively the enemy jungler must gank your lane or lose the turret, while your jungler freely takes Dragon and ganks other lanes. > > You will emerge a 4/1/2 Darius up 20 cs and 3 plates, with Trinity Force when everyone else is finishing their first items. Rotate to bot lane and repeat this process with Rift Herald. The enemy must either devote a second person to stopping you or lose a turret, while your team takes the objective for free. Don’t go for montage plays. Once your team has taken Herald, time your splitpush to align with the summon, taking an inner or inhibitor turret or flanking for a dive. > > At 20 minutes, you will be a 7/3/6 Darius outside their inhibitor turret, up 30 cs, 4 plates, and a solo turret. You will have Trinity Force, Mercury’s Treads, and Titanic Hydra while the enemy is just upgrading their boots. Splitpush botlane one more time, forcing the enemy to coin toss at Baron and lose an inhibitor or lose Baron. Use Baron to splitpush and end the game at 25 minutes. > > And not a single one of them spent frontlining. ...You think I haven't tried that in gold? It only works at gold, because toplane has no objectives to go for. Aggressive fights into winning matchups works extremely well in gold, as the jungler doesn't apply pressure. However, the higher you go in elo, the more you realize that Darius has no dashes and mobility, and that he's easily exploited in ganks early game. If your reply is "then don't play aggressive early!", that counters all you say, and furthermore, if there is proper jungle pressure, I can't do much fighting without risking my life (even in winning matchups), especially with a gank heavy jungler like kayn who wants to be rhast. The strat you listed only works if the enemy has no brains. The higher you climb, the more you realize juggernauts lose their niche, and become a worse and worse pick. They aren't useless, but it requires a different playstyle than what one might be used to. Being aggressive works, but its far more reliable to play juggernauts defensively in lane, while building a single offensive item with the rest being defense items. Furthermore, this is a critique on my Darius, and while its incorrect, this post was created as a complaint on idiotic teammates, and thus, this entire argument is null and void.
Joseraph (NA)
: Just checked your match history. If you're behind and building damage items then there's your issue. I've had none of these problems playing from behind and I've won 11/13 games on Garen, because if I think I'm going to go behind I'll immediately build a tank item or two. Meanwhile you have games where you go insanely negative and build {{item:3078}} /{{item:3071}} {{item:3053}} and wonder why you can't take a hit
> [{quoted}](name=Joseraph,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JpfsL56I,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-06-04T18:28:47.947+0000) > > Just checked your match history. If you're behind and building damage items then there's your issue. I've had none of these problems playing from behind and I've won 11/13 games on Garen, because if I think I'm going to go behind I'll immediately build a tank item or two. Meanwhile you have games where you go insanely negative and build {{item:3078}} /{{item:3071}} {{item:3053}} and wonder why you can't take a hit Sterraks is an antiburst thats a near must for darius, as unlike Garen, Darius doesn't have a form of consistant engage. Garen has a speedboost for a few seconds, and primarily serves to disrupt and execute one squishy. Darius is meant to zone, displace, disrupt, and pose a threat for the enemy. Sterraks is defense, not offense in nearly all cases. Trinity/black cleaver r musts for Darius because he needs the phage proc to be any bit reliable in fights, as he has no speed boost in his overall kit. Furthermore, did you think I was going full ad? I tried to build defense because I was popping. But I couldn't farm, as I got flamed.....but going to fights got me further behind..... which made me die faster.... which increased my need for defense items and gold. Endless negative cycle.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Warmogs. Poke doesn't matter if you duck around a corner and heal it all off.
> [{quoted}](name=Quality Content,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cmFKWr0Z,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-23T21:28:46.053+0000) > > Warmogs. Poke doesn't matter if you duck around a corner and heal it all off. Sometimes you don't get the option to duck away and heal it off. There are comps that can instantly seize that opportunity of 6 seconds to annialate your backline if you back up to heal up a bit. Furthermore, building max hp with no resistances feels really crappy when you only have around 150 armor.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: I was taking the Piss but I mixed in some good advice, TENACITY and MAGIC RESIST. Bully the Fuck Out of Him, pick a Lane bully, Set him back, and end fast, he can't burst you if he doesn't get Kills or Assists, because if you allow him to get the the late game he is going to fuck you. Pack some useful champions , Like Morgana, Sivir or Olaf, despite his point click ult mobility is his weakness and people who can get on top of him and get out like Leblanc, Zed and ekko
> [{quoted}](name=Sad Tyrant,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=00070000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-16T09:35:11.236+0000) > > I was taking the Piss > > but I mixed in some good advice, TENACITY and MAGIC RESIST. > > Bully the Fuck Out of Him, pick a Lane bully, Set him back, and end fast, he can't burst you if he doesn't get Kills or Assists, because if you allow him to get the the late game he is going to fuck you. > > Pack some useful champions , Like Morgana, Sivir or Olaf, despite his point click ult mobility is his weakness and people who can get on top of him and get out like Leblanc, Zed and ekko I play top, the best I can do in this scenario is pick a diver specifically for veig, but I really can't control how mid does vs the veig then. Even if I do roam mid, then I get behind. ...this discussion has turned from a veig ult alteration to my unbridled hatred of veig, so I'ma stop right there. Long story short, yes veig has problems, but he also has many benefits. While the damage is problematic, his squishiness is a fair counterbalance. However, despite all this, his ult doesn't take much thought behind it, which is why I want too make it a skillshot to ensure that there is some thought and restraint when playing veigar.
: No mate, you're not understanding, the power of POINT CLICK WILL GO ELSEWHERE. the Power is already there but it will go elsewhere because a skill-shot is inherently weaker than a Point Click
> [{quoted}](name=Sad Tyrant,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=00080000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-16T05:35:47.266+0000) > > No mate, you're not understanding, the power of POINT CLICK WILL GO ELSEWHERE. the Power is already there but it will go elsewhere because a skill-shot is inherently weaker than a Point Click ....Why would the power go elsewhere? Can we stop having compensation buffs and try flat out nerfs? It's what riot did with akali, and now shes bearable to lane against. I really don't want to see a compensation buff trend. There should be high risk high reward with veig's ult. The high risk is getting into position and risking getting 1 shot while having the risk of missing, with the high reward being able to nuke a single target.
: Fun fact veigar's r does less damage then his fucking w on a full health target. Like veigar is fine.
> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-05-14T21:30:35.780+0000) > > Fun fact veigar's r does less damage then his fucking w on a full health target. > > Like veigar is fine. ....his ult is an EXECUTE. The fact that the 2 second delay nuke that is easily avoided in exchange for high burst is even comparable to an execute's damage at full hp proves my point. Urgot's ult is a good example of an execute. You have a threshold, everyone knows it, and everyone is cautious of it. Veigar's "execute" can be casually thrown out like annie's q, and do 5 times the damage. I wish I were exaggerating.
: Context, Scenarios to deal with Veigar are inherently different to other champions Go play Vayne or Quinn TOP Main Yes get Cleanse or Qss on Illaoi OR maybe Just a Fuckton of Tenacity and MR get more MR and Health Maokai Get a Stopwatch Vayne and Maybe NEXT TIME DON'T FEED THE VEIGAR
> [{quoted}](name=Sad Tyrant,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=000700000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-16T06:02:40.599+0000) > > Context, Scenarios to deal with Veigar are inherently different to other champions > > Go play Vayne or Quinn TOP Main > Yes get Cleanse or Qss on Illaoi OR maybe Just a Fuckton of Tenacity and MR > get more MR and Health Maokai > Get a Stopwatch Vayne > > and Maybe NEXT TIME DON'T FEED THE VEIGAR You realize I was throwing sarcasm out there when I said ranged toplaners right? Ranged toplaners are a big part on why the toplane meta was cancer (though its slowly stabling right now). Juggernauts, tanks, and even fighters all struggled to be relevent because of champs like quinn, vayne, kennon, karma, viktor, so on. So your solution to a toxic mechanic in this game.... is to make it more toxic? ....So I, the juggernaut, should get a QSS, despite it having 0 synergy with my kit, just because the enemy has an oppressive cc zone? Well golly gee then, why don't tanks in LCS get cleanse or qss? They get cced the most! ....the biggest reason would be it has 0 synergy. If they get cced, their main hope is either their support got mikaels or they have enough resistances..... which brings me to my next point. There have been times when I've built 200 mr (which is an insane amount, considering how little mr you get with mr items), and still gotten 1 shot by enemy veigars. But fine, lets say I only build mr. Then what about the rest of them? If they have 3 ADs, 1 support, and 1 AP (which is the most common pair in a team), then why should I build so much more MR, when then I'll get blown up faster by everyone else? Even in the LCS, players will sometimes opt to not even build mr because its a waste, and they get prefer to get heavy chunked by the ap damage dealer, as opposed to getting chunked by the rest of their team (ali vs vik was a famous case). ....Get a stopwatch? Really? Theres so many damn flaws to that analogy. 1. You can't use stopwatch while stunned. 2. Only thing an adc would build would probably be a GA, with a 5 min cooldown. Strong effect, but after it pops, it's stats are so horrendous that some players opt to just sell it and buy something else while it's on cooldown....unless you mean that they should build a zhonyias, the AP item with 0 use except the 90 second cd active and the armor (which is also granted by GA. 3. Stopwatch is still only one use. What does the adc do after they use it to save themselves? Just die over and over until they can buy either A. an ap item only for the active, thus wasting a slot, or B. The GA, which is only bought for it's effect, as it's stats are abysmal. ....I've been blown up by 2/5 veigars. A fed veigar simply means he has more gold. Veigs can get fed from CS alone, as can any champ, and they can also stack AP from CS (albeit, much slower). The argument of "Don't feed veigar!" is extremely poor when talking about a scaling champion. When you say "don't feed veigar", what do you even mean? Be passive in lane? He wants that: he wants safe passage to mid-late game. Be aggressive? A smart veig can respect who can kill him, and choose to not cs a bit for the sake of safety, but if the enemy miscalculates, veig can get extra ap and perhaps a kill. Don't let him roam? Letting veig roam isn't too bad of an idea, as his movement speed is low, so he loses much if he ever roams. If the botlane or toplane has great communication, they can effectively waste his time. Every single example I made was for the sake of revealing how foolish it is, yet you tried to defend every single one. Do you have any idea what you're talking about or no?
: Zil gained a stun with that change and Yes he could get infinte AP off champions, by killing them It wouldn't make him completely unbearable to play (except when MOBILITY CREEP cause Zed and other fucks like him, are annoying enough champions already) I'm saying that if they make it a skill shot, the power would have to go elsewhere because POINT CLICK has a power budget attached When they changed Veigar, what did they do?, they weakened Q in the fact they made it his passive and then they strengthened the passive, and then weakened his ult from 250/375/500 100% AP to 175/250/325 75% AP and removed the AP damage. they took more power from him than they gave and then they would have to give his W a Passive (which they did). also with the Season 4 changes, what did they do? They added a delay on his E. They Removed 20% AP from his ult, and they made Q a skillshot. They Also increased Q range, changed the cooldown and allowed it to double stack. they Buffed his W, E and R with CD and mana cost. a shifting of power around his kit. what I'm saying is that power has to go somewhere and that power change in the rest of his abilities may make him unbearable to play against.
> [{quoted}](name=Sad Tyrant,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2019-05-16T05:05:53.096+0000) > > Zil gained a stun with that change and Yes he could get infinte AP off champions, by killing them > > It wouldn't make him completely unbearable to play (except when MOBILITY CREEP cause Zed and other fucks like him, are annoying enough champions already) I'm saying that if they make it a skill shot, the power would have to go elsewhere because POINT CLICK has a power budget attached > > > When they changed Veigar, what did they do?, they weakened Q in the fact they made it his passive and then they strengthened the passive, and then weakened his ult from 250/375/500 100% AP to 175/250/325 75% AP and removed the AP damage. they took more power from him than they gave and then they would have to give his W a Passive (which they did). > > also with the Season 4 changes, what did they do? They added a delay on his E. They Removed 20% AP from his ult, and they made Q a skillshot. They Also increased Q range, changed the cooldown and allowed it to double stack. they Buffed his W, E and R with CD and mana cost. a shifting of power around his kit. > > what I'm saying is that power has to go somewhere and that power change in the rest of his abilities may make him unbearable to play against. The power is already there, in the form of a 60% execute. I'm not saying he is flawless, he has weaknesses... but 60% execution isn't healthy for the game. Thats why the solution to this would either be to nerf his damage or change it to a skillshot, and since that would hurt and wouldn't change the frustration when fighting him, at least change it so it isn't as frustrating for the enemy, but is still strong in the hands of the player.
Pika Fox (NA)
: ..... His R is his only point and click, has extremely short range, low damage on its own outside of execute, and is on a stupidly squishy immobile champion whos only defensive action is on a significant delay and can just easily be cleansed or QSSd, making him a free and easy kill. Seriously, veigar is incapable of killing you with R unless youre sitting at 60% or lower HP, which means you ate 4+ Qs to the face. W can only hit you if you run at him and not expect his E for whatever reason, and given his Es range, you can safely auto him with practically any decently ranged champ and be outside E threat range with just boots 2.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=0007000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-16T04:55:32.250+0000) > > ..... His R is his only point and click, has extremely short range, low damage on its own outside of execute, and is on a stupidly squishy immobile champion whos only defensive action is on a significant delay and can just easily be cleansed or QSSd, making him a free and easy kill. ...But what about champs who cant build qss or have no cleanse? Like say I'm playing Darius, or Garen, or Morde, or sylas, or ekko, or.... you get the idea. > > Seriously, veigar is incapable of killing you with R unless youre sitting at 60% or lower HP, which means you ate 4+ Qs to the face. W can only hit you if you run at him and not expect his E for whatever reason, and given his Es range, you can safely auto him with practically any decently ranged champ and be outside E threat range with just boots 2. 1. You just admitted that his "execute" can kill you at around 60% hp. That isn't an execute now is it. Thats like if urgot's ult had shorter range but could kill somoene at 60% hp with point and click. 2. There are other champions in this game. Thats why you see many champs not fight veig if they know when they cant win in lane phase. However, in teamfights, other champions can poke or burst, and it really isn't that difficult for the enemy to huddle around veigar to protect him as he bursts down the enemy frontline. 3. ....So what if I'm not ranged? What if I'm a melee frontline tank whos job is to soak damage? What do I do then when fighting veigar? What do I do if I'm, say, aatrox and he cages around me. Can I still auto him from a distance? The counter solutions you have to why veigar is "weak" aren't really solutions to everyone: its far too selective. Remember when the only anti burst in the game was zhonyias and adcs complained about rengar or zed? You could say "oh vayne, just get zhonyias for the zed and his ult won't do damage!" "Oh Toplane main, go play a ranged toplaner to deal with veig's stun!" "Oh Illaoi, build QSS to deal with veigar's stun!" "Oh Maokai, stay in prestine condition, and don't get below 60% hp, or you'll get 1 shot by veigar!" ....See how ridiculous that sounds? Yes, the answers you gave work. But similarly to communism, it only works on paper.
: Veigar's ult does what its designed to do, execute 1 low hp squishy or really low tank. Its almost like a lissandra lock down if it actually did damage, it singles out ONE person with low hp and takes them out of a team fight, assuming they have under 100 MR. Imagine if you had to make Lissandra's enemy cast a skill shot, i doubt youd hit the target you intended to in a team fight.Making it a skill shot would just make things more difficult for him in a team fight, maybe not a 1 v 1. What if veigar ment to hit the low HP cait in the team fight but leona just stepped in the way, now its a wasted ult that did no function and its on its minute long cool down Early and Mid game. If you dont want to get combo one shotted, best suggestion that I recommend from experience as a Veigar main since i started is that Veigar will almost ALWAYS be the slowest one if a team retreats and will be easy if you can just lock him down or surround him, hes not that hard to kill if you get in range of him like most mages. Rengar and Evelynn can be pretty good at getting him as he wont be able to stun you right away if you go invs, its a bit more risky with evelynn because of her charm indicator but they can get the job done. Or just get a yas windwall tbh.
> [{quoted}](name=RussiaKitty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-05-15T23:56:45.010+0000) > > Veigar's ult does what its designed to do, execute 1 low hp squishy or really low tank. Its almost like a lissandra lock down if it actually did damage, it singles out ONE person with low hp and takes them out of a team fight, assuming they have under 100 MR. Imagine if you had to make Lissandra's enemy cast a skill shot, i doubt youd hit the target you intended to in a team fight.Making it a skill shot would just make things more difficult for him in a team fight, maybe not a 1 v 1. What if veigar ment to hit the low HP cait in the team fight but leona just stepped in the way, now its a wasted ult that did no function and its on its minute long cool down Early and Mid game. > If you dont want to get combo one shotted, best suggestion that I recommend from experience as a Veigar main since i started is that Veigar will almost ALWAYS be the slowest one if a team retreats and will be easy if you can just lock him down or surround him, hes not that hard to kill if you get in range of him like most mages. Rengar and Evelynn can be pretty good at getting him as he wont be able to stun you right away if you go invs, its a bit more risky with evelynn because of her charm indicator but they can get the job done. > Or just get a yas windwall tbh. Zhonyias counters most of the burst you mentioned, and as such, that item is seen by nearly all veigars who play the game ( if not zhonyias, at least a banshees or the Hextech GLP). By that time, the assassin is in a thick of 4 other teammates, and seeing how theyre assassins, the enemy team now has to force a fight from a disadvantageous situation if they want any form of success. But yes, I do see what you mean with bodyblocking. However, I personally think that bodyblocking would be a decent way to deal with veig's ult, but I can see how it'd be frustrating for the veigar himself. Then why not change his ult similarly to lucians Q? You can pick your target, but they can still dash out of it.
Pika Fox (NA)
: Because currently ITS BALANCED. If you were to make it a skillshot, that would need to be paired with some kind of buff. Meaning youre looking at it hitting multiple targets, lowered CD, far more range, larger skillshot, the like. Veigar already has 3 skillshots, all of which are very, very short range, 2 of which have significant delays.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=00070000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-15T18:56:09.124+0000) > > Because currently ITS BALANCED. If you were to make it a skillshot, that would need to be paired with some kind of buff. Meaning youre looking at it hitting multiple targets, lowered CD, far more range, larger skillshot, the like. > By all means. Tell me how an on click "execute" (that really can "execute" starting at 75% hp) with infinite scaling that can quite literally do 75% of your max hp if you're a squishy champ "balanced"? > Veigar already has 3 skillshots, all of which are very, very short range, 2 of which have significant delays. ...I know you aren't calling his cage short delay. Here's riots very own description: "After a brief delay Veigar twists the edges of space around the target location for 3 seconds, stunning enemies who pass through the perimeter." Even riot doesn't think its long, and if you ever played against it, you know its fast. It simply tells you where the cage will be. To champs with a dash, this gives them time, and to them its "balanced" (to an extent). To immobile champions, its a death sentence, whether they have mr or not. He needs change, as he suffers the tryndamere case. He either steamrolls or he doesnt, and in that rare case where he's doing mediocre, he will still 1 shot someone.
Pika Fox (NA)
: Because it wouldnt be the same damage and same range, given its balanced around being point and click.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2019-05-15T13:17:20.361+0000) > > Because it wouldnt be the same damage and same range, given its balanced around being point and click. ...But why wouldn't it be the same range and damage? It's damage is astronomical right now, and it has a really decent range. Those things don't need to be altered.
Rioter Comments
: That would take a ton of power from his kit, making him unbearable to play, and therefore there would be a need to buff him, and where would that missing power go, extra range? Heck No it'd go straight to scaling, damage, and the rest of his kit, making it easier to obliterate you. Imagine if E was INSTANT like it used to be, imagine if it was easier to farm with his Q, Imagine if W instant gibbed you rather than just chunking you Veigar's Ult is fine the way it is. Also I'm sick of champs getting the easy way out by flashing or dashing, because making another skill-shot would be another point in mobility creep
> [{quoted}](name=Sad Tyrant,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-05-15T02:18:55.550+0000) > > That would take a ton of power from his kit, making him unbearable to play, and therefore there would be a need to buff him, and where would that missing power go, extra range? Heck No > > it'd go straight to scaling, damage, and the rest of his kit, making it easier to obliterate you. Imagine if E was INSTANT like it used to be, imagine if it was easier to farm with his Q, Imagine if W instant gibbed you rather than just chunking you Veigar's Ult is fine the way it is. > > Also I'm sick of champs getting the easy way out by flashing or dashing, because making another skill-shot would be another point in mobility creep ....back then, veig's ult did more damage based on the amount of ap the opponent had, and his q, while an on click, was at a much shorter range, and veig couldn't get infinite ap off champs. How would changing the ult to a skillshot make him unbearable to play? The dude has a 2 second stun in his kit, and anyone who knows how to aim it knows its a guaranteed stun (or at least a guaranteed w). It prevents veig players from panic smashing q r when someones on them, and now forces them to at least use 2 braincells to aim their ult (and seeing how fast the missile speed is, would still be able to hit immobile champs or punish champs who are unaware). Furthermore, mobility is an excellent counter to an immobile burst mage. If a champ can 100-0 me as a tank whos build 2 mr items, then they also need to be able to be deleted from a fight just as fast. Problem is, late game, even if a champ manages to get on veig, nothings stopping him from either q-r ing the champ which kills them (as assassins are squishy and divers have little resistances), or q w e zhonyias r. "Oh, but veig dies before anything is thrown out, its frustrating and is a problem!" ...thats what it feels like to fight veig. You know how much it sucks dying as an adc at 75% hp bc veig threw out his point click up at you in a teamfight? TLDR: he would be in a fine spot even if his ult were changed to a skillshot. Zil's q was changed and went from a super bursty caster to a super bursty caster who requires some thought before pressing q. If veig is going to have a 2 second stun and infinate scaling and burst potential, then he at least deserves to have some thought into where he throws his abilities like his q. Riot changed his Q from point click to skillshot bc similar to dfg, it was frustrating to die to a point and click ability. RIot should by then change his ult to a skillshot, as the situation is far worse.
Pika Fox (NA)
: It would end up being massively buffed if it became a skillshot, you do realize that, right?
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-05-15T02:16:25.012+0000) > > It would end up being massively buffed if it became a skillshot, you do realize that, right? ...How? If theres the same damage and same range, and now has the ability to be dodged/abiliity to miss, how would that be a massive buff? It would be a nerf, but only to those who don't know how to aim skillshots. Seeing how veig has a 2 second stun built into hit kit, this change really shouldn't impact many veig mains if they know what they're doing: only impacts those who just like facerolling.
: He already has 3 skill shots. If they made his R a skill shot then he would need a lot of bonus damage added to make up for it. OR His Ult just damages everything in its Path If you dont like Viegars Ult, what about Syndra's? What about Vi's? or Vlad's? Or Mord's?
> [{quoted}](name=XXXMurderPenguin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-05-14T20:27:16.775+0000) > > He already has 3 skill shots. If they made his R a skill shot then he would need a lot of bonus damage added to make up for it. > 3 skillshots, yes, with one "skillshot" being one of the game's greatest zoning/cc tools, with very little thought needed behind it except "place in between veig and threat". His q moves at high missle speed, but it is possible to miss it, but if it hits, chunks hard. Decent burst, so you have to work if you want the burst. Not gonna really complain about his W. The skillshot hurts, but can be easily avoided. The skillshot only becomes a problem when paired with the stun, but usually q r is enough to burst a squishy. If its a tank, thats when the w is needed. > OR His Ult just damages everything in its Path > ....Why would that be needed? That's like saying Darius's ult damage got gutted (which believe it or not, did happen) when he got reworked, so his ult should be an aoe burst. Fk no, his ult has it's purpose, and still hurts tons even after the damage nerf on it (mid to late game). Changing veig's ult to that type of skillshot seems like a unneeded buff to clear waves....unless you mean it also passes through champs, in which I would say thats even more broken then it's current state. > If you dont like Viegars Ult, what about Syndra's? Syndra's ult is annoying, but it isn't immediate burst: at max damage, it comes in 6 chunks over a short time, but not as short as veigar's burst. In a 1v1, damage outputs are the same, but in teamfights, supports and such can shield this burst far more easily, as opposed to trying to react to the split second veig ults you. Furthermore, she doesn't infinitely scale. She only has 1 disengage, and its either a crappy knockback or a stun thats hard to hit if they're on you (or even if they aren't on you). Veig can panic and press q r and half the time it'll work. If he isn't dead in 1 second, nothing stopping him from dropping the cage. > > What about Vi's? or Vlad's? Or Mord's? Vi, the champion, goes towards the character. Vi, is killable. Furthermore, the ult itself doesnt do much damage (around 400 max full build). It's her combo that hurts, combining a mini charge q with her w and e auto resets. If you make the argument that if she builds AD to utilize her ad scalings, then she herself can easily be bursted. The ult itself is uninterruptible, but doesnt make her invulnerable. In a 2v1, it might be a nuisance, but in a 5v5, it would be easy to deal with vi if she suddenly ults your adc (everyone just focuses on her immediately, burst her down, turn attention to the rest of the enemy). Source: played vi a crapton on my other account. Her ult is best used as a gapcloser, not as burst damage. Vlad's ult... is a skillshot... without execution damage or high burst.... with the requirement being vlad needs to be reletively close to the enemy. Furthermore, the damage is delayed, meaning shields or heals or parries can render the ult useless. Morde's ult isn't .5 second burst, its damage over time. Yes, its DoT for a long period of time and players who are alone suffer, but its a team game. shields are a thing. Hell, certain champ can deal with the ult with their skills alone. If morde ult's me as urgot, i can just e to negate some decent damage from the ult, or I can try to lifesteal some hp back to prevent dying. However, that same 300 damage shield isn't really going to save an urgot from a veig, nor can I lifesteal the instant burst. Rather than make these comparisons (with syndra being the closest), I think the cloest example would be riven's prenerf ult around season 4. It was high execution damage (at the time), and came out near instaneously, and back then, flash dodging it was considered godlike. But riot realised how difficult it was for players to dodge it, so they lowered the missle speed. Now, players can dodge it. Before the argument comes out of "oh then lower the ult's missle speed", riven's ult is a skillshot. Veig is point and click.
Rioter Comments
: Patch 9.10 notes
"Mewo" -Riot, after typing meow multiple times in a row
: Are you trying to imply that AD Darius, AP Shaco, AP Kog, Tank Karma, and AP Lucian in those respective roles are _bad?_ You and I are going to have to have a talk.
psh, never said bad, but rather they're inefficient. I've seen these roles played out, and when they're in a good matchup, its hilarious to fight or see. I just want an entire game based on stupid builds. If a frigging bruiser leona wins a 1v1 against Ad naut, then itd be hillarious to see the chat blow up and getting hyped as shit. There would be less toxicity (as toxicity and off-meta casual play don't mix, so toxic players would avoid this mode), and players would play more for casual fun as opposed to seeing the victory screen. Itd be a nice change of pace, as opposed to having circulating metas. At least if theres a meta based on this mode, its still stupidly casual.
Rioter Comments
: Go to the Champ Reveal tab in your client, they've got all the info there.
i dont have access to my client for a bit bc im working on a few things, do you know if they have her skills on the website?
Rioter Comments
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: Patch 9.9 notes
Tahm was sitting at a 43% winrate as a support, if anything, his devour was the only thing he had going for him. This is just gonna shift him from support to toplane. Why did they have to gut my boi like that...
: > [{quoted}](name=dontspinbutwin,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6pFLu0mR,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-30T16:49:26.417+0000) > > ....I mentioned toxicity because certain champions get nerfed despite having fair winrates. You made the argument that renekton needed the buff because of his low winrate, to which I responded with tahm kench's low winrate, and explained why he was getting nerfed. If this were a fallacy, it would be closer to false analogy, not strawman, as I had provided an actual argument to my defense. Misrepresentation comes on your end, not mine. > ....Im... really not sure what youre looking at. I'm going exactly by the top champions, as your link has shown me. Nasus and yorick are the only juggernauts in the top 15, darius and garen arent in the top 15: Garen is 18, and Darius is 29. Im really not sure where youre pulling this information. Furthermore, panthon isn't number 11, he's number 2, followed by wukong and hecarim. I'm using the exact cite you gave me. If we were going by top champion, Darius would be around the top, as hes considered "S" Class, according to this site. > > The sited data and what you speak dont align, as well as your arguments and interpretation. > > TLDR: I referenced toxicity as it is a factor on why champions are nerfed, just like tahm kench. He was toxic to fight in worlds as a defensive pick, so he was "altered", when in reality he was gutted. Similarly, renekton, while sporting a poor winrate, was toxic in what he did (which was go in, 100/0 an opponent, and get out safely), so a damage buff wasn't needed, but if anything, he should have gotten sustainability buffs in base armor and mr. > > Furthermore, the info you posted along with the info you cited are not the same, so please double check this to clear up any differences. It is the same don't know what to tell you [You done lying yet?](https://imgur.com/a/VVwzMxS?) Anything else is irrelevant because your whole notion that champions are balanced off this "toxicity" scale you made up is just blatantly false. Trying to cite tahm kench as an example when he was just statistically overpowered in every way in team play and pro play. Not because he was toxic. If a champ is statstically over performing in teamplay and proplay it will be nerfed. If a champ is statistically under-performing in every elo, teamplay and pro-play it will be buffed. Simple. Your toxicity scale doesn't exist. Every single juggernaut in the game except illaoi is A tier or higher while also having balanced near 50%+ win rates. They are fine, continually posting about how there oh so terrible isn't going to change the fact that every stat you can possibly collect from them shows otherwise.
> [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6pFLu0mR,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-30T17:10:37.797+0000) > > It is the same don't know what to tell you lol. I'm sorry that the jug main doesn't want to admit they are doing fine in the current meta. [You done lying yet?](https://imgur.com/a/VVwzMxS?) https://imgur.com/a/PmSeRnH https://imgur.com/a/WxWwnUz ...What the hell are you talking about? Check the url, this is the cite you gave me. Funny how you completely cut of the statistics of winrate and such. And before you make the argument of "Oh haha you said winrate doesnt matter I win", winrate is a factor in champion balance, but it isn't the only factor. Riot has stated that a champion should be fair to play or fight against, its why champions like akali and irelia got nerfed hard, as even though they had 50% winrates, they were massively played by bandwagoners because they were overtuned and frustrating to play against... So they were gutted. To futher support my argument, check this out: https://champion.gg/champion/Katarina/Support This is katarina support and sits at a whopping 57% winrate. Insane right? It isn't being altered, because there were only about 1k games examined of this playstyle. This is an example of where winrate doesn't apply, as the playerbase is a complete niche. > > Anything else is irrelevant because your whole notion that champions are balanced off this "toxicity" scale you made up is just blatantly false lol. Trying to cite tahm kench as an example when he was just statistically overpowered in every way in team play and pro play. Not because he was toxic lol. If a champ is statstically over performing in teamplay and proplay it will be nerfed, simple. If a champ is statistically under-performing in every elo, teamplay and pro-play it will be buffed. Simple. Your bs toxicity scale doesn't exist which is why, OH....thats right....they buffed him. https://champion.gg/champion/TahmKench/Support I really don't know what the hell you're going on about. If you want to call me out, at least cite your evidence, you end up embarrassing yourself. Tahm is the worst performing support right now, right above illaoi support (who is a traditional toplaner), and the main reason he was played in pro play was his devour was extremely good peel....and thats the main thing they gutted. He was in poor position from the very beginning, but they gutted him, not because he was broken, but because one part of him was, which in term is considered "toxic". Before you make the argument of "Oh but kat support has a high winrate but low playerbase, isnt this the exact opposite with tahm as he also has a lower playerbase?" Not really. Katarina is released for the role of midlane assassination, with no support intents in mind. She works on the basis of "the enemy doesnt know what to do, lets cheese this", its why illaoi support is a thing. Furthermore, Kench was released as a support first, toplaner secondary. Even if he is underplayed in his main role, in the right hands he can do extremely well. The fact that his support tool is getting gutted despite his horrendous winrate tells me that his winrate wasnt the issue on why it was nerfed, but rather, how frustrating it was to fight him. Like you stated, he was picked in pro play and adjusted for that, and the main reason he was picked was for his peel capabilities. Gutting this would ruin his LCS pickrate sure, but would also further ruin his winrate in the support role (but maybe raise it in toplane). You have made your arguments in hope of being correct, despite showing no evidence. I have disagreed, and shown you multiple forms of evidence in my despute. If you wish to come back and further make an intellegent case, I will happily debate, as I love debating intelligence. However, if you simply wish to babble and provide nothing of the sort, I will simply ignore that and move on ( No matter how incorrect it might be), as it would not be worth my time.
: > [{quoted}](name=dontspinbutwin,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6pFLu0mR,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-04-30T06:42:46.297+0000) > > Tahm kench sat at a 42% winrate as support, but is still getting nerfed on his support ability. Winrates don't mean anything to how toxic the game is played. RIven sits at a 53% winrate, yet you have people like me complaining about her because she isn't healthy. Pantheon has a slightly lower winrate, but no one complains, as everyone knows his weakneses. > Strawman fallacy anyone? Where did I say anything about how toxic a champion is? Anywhere? Didn't think so. He is statistically losing games in low elo, high elo, and team play so he got buffed. simple. Whether you like playing against him because of toxicity doesn't change his statistics. Unless the champion is aatrox or akali where they are/were destroying the LCS and one-tricks /mains have insane win rates, they are not going leave a champ at 46%. Just not quite how that one works. The only time a champ is intentionally kept in that state is when they are reworking it in the near future, it is insane in teamplay and the LCS, or if one-tricks or mains have absurd statistics even though the general public doesn't. Renekton doesn't match any of these and therefore wasn't kept down. You mention tahm kench but fail to realize he is disgusting in teamplay. they have already said they want to buff his soloQ while nerfing teamplay. So no, he isnt getting nerfed because he's toxic, hes getting nerfed because of pro-play. > ...furthermore, juggernauts are considered champions who have no mobility, but have great sustain and can dish out high damage. In the top 15, I can only see yorick and nasus (even urgot if you want to count him as one). However, the top 6 winrates toplane are considered divers (i consider pantheon a diver), and the rest are champs who are only in meta because they can cheese tanks, like neeko or kennon. Top champion, not top win rate. You should know this since you keep talking about how win rate doesn't matter in your posts. Top 15 by Tier: (classed as defined by riot in their class update post) 1. Riven - Skirmisher 2. Jax - Skrimisher 3. Kayle - Unique 4. Hecarim - Diver 5. Urgot - Unique 6. Nasus - Jug 7. Kennen - Unique 8. Darius - Jug 9. Yorick - Jug 10 - Vayne - Marksmen 11. Pantheon - Diver 12. Teemo - Unique 13. Garen - Jug 14. Kled - Diver 15. Renekton - Diver Top 10 Mix: 3 Jugs, 1 Diver Top 15 Mix: 4 Divers, 4 jugs.
> [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6pFLu0mR,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-04-30T13:21:31.410+0000) > > Strawman fallacy anyone? Where did I say anything about how toxic a champion is? Anywhere? Didn't think so. He is statistically losing games in low elo, high elo, and team play so he got buffed. simple. Whether you like playing against him because of toxicity doesn't change his statistics. Unless the champion is aatrox or akali where they are/were destroying the LCS and one-tricks /mains have insane win rates, they are not going leave a champ at 46%. Just not quite how that one works. The only time a champ is intentionally kept in that state is when they are reworking it in the near future, it is insane in teamplay and the LCS, or if one-tricks or mains have absurd statistics even though the general public doesn't. Renekton doesn't match any of these and therefore wasn't kept down. ....I mentioned toxicity because certain champions get nerfed despite having fair winrates. You made the argument that renekton needed the buff because of his low winrate, to which I responded with tahm kench's low winrate, and explained why he was getting nerfed. If this were a fallacy, it would be closer to false analogy, not strawman, as I had provided an actual argument to my defense. Misrepresentation comes on your end, not mine. > > You mention tahm kench but fail to realize he is disgusting in teamplay. they have already said they want to buff his soloQ while nerfing teamplay. So no, he isnt getting nerfed because he's toxic, hes getting nerfed because of pro-play. > > Top champion, not top win rate. You should know this since you keep talking about how win rate doesn't matter in your posts. > > Top 15 by Tier: > (classed as defined by riot in their class update post) > 1. Riven - Skirmisher > 2. Jax - Skrimisher > 3. Kayle - Unique > 4. Hecarim - Diver > 5. Urgot - Unique > 6. Nasus - Jug > 7. Kennen - Unique > 8. Darius - Jug > 9. Yorick - Jug > 10 - Vayne - Marksmen > 11. Pantheon - Diver > 12. Teemo - Unique > 13. Garen - Jug > 14. Kled - Diver > 15. Renekton - Diver > > Top 10 Mix: > 3 Jugs, 1 Diver > > Top 15 Mix: > 4 Divers, 4 jugs. ....Im... really not sure what youre looking at. I'm going exactly by the top champions, as your link has shown me. Nasus and yorick are the only juggernauts in the top 15, darius and garen arent in the top 15: Garen is 18, and Darius is 29. Im really not sure where youre pulling this information. Furthermore, panthon isn't number 11, he's number 2, followed by wukong and hecarim. I'm using the exact cite you gave me. If we were going by top champion, Darius would be around the top, as hes considered "S" Class, according to this site. The sited data and what you speak dont align, as well as your arguments and interpretation. TLDR: I referenced toxicity as it is a factor on why champions are nerfed, just like tahm kench. He was toxic to fight in worlds as a defensive pick, so he was "altered", when in reality he was gutted. Similarly, renekton, while sporting a poor winrate, was toxic in what he did (which was go in, 100/0 an opponent, and get out safely), so a damage buff wasn't needed, but if anything, he should have gotten sustainability buffs in base armor and mr. Furthermore, the info you posted along with the info you cited are not the same, so please double check this to clear up any differences.
: Renekton literally had a 46% winrate before buff...please. Are we gonna ignore how there are as many jugs as divers in the top 15 top champs? https://u.gg/lol/tier-list/?role=top
> [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6pFLu0mR,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-04-29T19:49:40.505+0000) > > Renekton literally had a 46% winrate before buff...please. > > Are we gonna ignore how there are as many jugs as divers in the top 15 top champs? https://u.gg/lol/tier-list/?role=top Tahm kench sat at a 42% winrate as support, but is still getting nerfed on his support ability. Winrates don't mean anything to how toxic the game is played. RIven sits at a 53% winrate, yet you have people like me complaining about her because she isn't healthy. Pantheon has a slightly lower winrate, but no one complains, as everyone knows his weakneses. ...furthermore, juggernauts are considered champions who have no mobility, but have great sustain and can dish out high damage. In the top 15, I can only see yorick and nasus (even urgot if you want to count him as one). However, the top 6 winrates toplane are considered divers (i consider pantheon a diver), and the rest are champs who are only in meta because they can cheese tanks, like neeko or kennon.
: They're 2 completely different genres of game and the balance does not equal. A fighting game should not dictate the balance of an RTS game. There's no reason someone I can't kill quickly should be able to kill me quickly or vice versa. Assassins do damage and are mobile because of how squishy they are, but if a tank could one-shot me in a combo, how is it fair I can't one-shot him in one?
> [{quoted}](name=Parallelity,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6pFLu0mR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-29T16:16:38.364+0000) > > They're 2 completely different genres of game and the balance does not equal. A fighting game should not dictate the balance of an RTS game. There's no reason someone I can't kill quickly should be able to kill me quickly or vice versa. Assassins do damage and are mobile because of how squishy they are, but if a tank could one-shot me in a combo, how is it fair I can't one-shot him in one? ...Tanks don't one shot: they set up enemies with CC to be shut down by teammates. Look at maokai: In lane, the reason he can be so oppressive is because he has decent base damage, and his cc makes it difficult to retreat or position properly. However, in an actual teamfight, you'll see they usually play around their backline. Assassins 1 shot, and in return, they can get 1 shot as well. Can a Sion really 100 to 0 a tristana with 0 reprocussion? Even if he had the damage, trist has so many tools to get out, so sion can't stick on trist. This isn't including her teammates. I compared smash to league because both games can be entirely unbalanced. Brawl is a fine example: Many tournaments banned stages for the main reason that meta knight, the broken powerhouse of brawl, could completely abuse the stage. However, in smash 4, he got adjusted and balanced, so those who were skilled with him could shine, but those who were bandwagoning fell off completely. Same thing for riven, isn't it? She used to only be able to 1 shot if she animation canceled, flashed, and if she did everything properly, would get out of skirmishes with around 30% hp, and a kill under her belt. Now, it's "Fuck she ulted, run". People don't even try to fight her anymore because damage has been overtuned, and riven's "poke" combo can do 60% of your hp, while she retreats while only losing 30% of her hp. Yes these game genres are different, but both can be victims of broken characters... yet unlike league, nintendo actually saw it to nerf characters when they got overtuned. (Also, take it from someone whos played every single type of Tank. Tanks really can't 1 shot, but can be damage loaded. A few tanks who can burst would be tahm, Mundo with the damage buff, Sejuani if she isn't considered a diver anymore, and thats about it. The rest are considered divers like camille or renekton, juggernauts like darius or garen, wardens like poppy, etc)
: "Alright, Darius! Looks like it's your turn for buffs!"
Darius has needed some defense buffs ever since spear of shojin. Since then, its been a shitfest toplane, and Darius went from "aggressive lane bully" to "Lord let me make it out of this lane alive so I can be a meatshield in mid-late game". Level 2 junglers have cheesed darius hard, as well as vayne, riven, viktor, karma, kennon, neeko, the list goes on. I would prefer his base armor and mr be buffed, but the heal on q works as well. Damage was fine though, not sure why they buffed it. Things that needs to be looked into for Darius: His tooltip for his ult is completely misguiding: it doesn't calculate his bonus AD from his passive, making the damage seem smaller than usual. His Q's hitbox would preferably be bigger, so divers could stop endlessly going in without repercussion W's auto attack slow should be back, but not as drastic as it once was. A mild auto attack slow would help against....divers. Q and W's damage is completely fine. However, his lvl 1 ult damage is laughable. His ult's damage only begins to kick in around level 11, and until then, its more reliable to use his ult as a way to get the 5th stack on the enemy (using the ult as a gapcloser), and finish them off with a Q. Remove the damage buff from his Q, move it to ult level 1 ult. His E is fine as it is. Long cooldown, but it's reasonable. I would prefer it to have a shorter cooldown to counteract the dashes, but I feel like that would be too oppressive. I get if some of you guys don't like the idea of Darius getting buffed, but he really needed a way to deal with toplane's bullshit. Before, he was a zoning menace in teamfights, who's healthbar would never go down if the enemy never played around him. Now, he can get bursted down by anyone. I've seen support sonas with lich bane ignore my mr and do 700 damage. The right thing to do wasn't to buff Darius, but it was to nerf diver's damage output/cooldowns. What a shame Riot keeps inflating damage.
: https://youtu.be/OzHNc0BzLsY?t=24
> [{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6pFLu0mR,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-29T04:26:05.526+0000) > > https://youtu.be/OzHNc0BzLsY?t=24 You see, that's riven.
: Tbh, I don't even think its damage that needs it - I think for almost all the major problem players, it's Cooldowns. Think about it - Riven is a monster with basically 4 short range dashes each on pretty much no cooldown. Vayne? spams Q with no cd during ult and is basically freaking untargetable. Yasuo? Same thing - I get his dash requires a target and is *supposed* to be like that, but his Q can literally be procd between every single dash once he gets his CDR...and the best part is - none of these guys really even have to go out of their way for it. CDR is something that's supposed to essentially be the "attack speed" of casters. Or by your analogy, it'd be like making all of Ganon's smash attacks instant instead of slow. Imagine a Ganon who didn't necessarily *move* fast, or *attack* fast, but who pressed his B button and instantly one shot you. Whose side-B gave him more mobility than *actually moving* so he just smashed it constantly. Tell me why literally every CDR item also gives assmetric fuckloads of damage? Pick one or the other, and make people choose. Do I build to launch a bunch of poke? Or do I spec for the one shot? THAT is balance. Separation of power.
I actually wanted a lot of this for tanks. I wanted tank items to have no cdr but more resistances, so they would have a chance against divers, and divers wouldn't be able to abuse tank items. haveing 40% CDR used to mean something. Now its a requirement.
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dontspinbutwin

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