Pika Fox (NA)
: Cool. Submit a ticket to riot support and give them the information they ask for to help troubleshoot and bug test/fix it. They cant fix something they dont know exists/cant replicate.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=zaeg5sGi,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-10T02:19:13.726+0000) > > Cool. > > Submit a ticket to riot support and give them the information they ask for to help troubleshoot and bug test/fix it. > > They cant fix something they dont know exists/cant replicate. they do know about it, they just haven't prioritized it this has been a thing for years and was reported countless times of course, it's not an easy bug to track down I can't replicate it in a consistent way but it might be related to the scroll wheel somehow still, a rough fix could simply be to have an interface option to NEVER allow locked camera
Rioter Comments
94372148 (NA)
: Anyone that does the Yi/Taric strategy is a pathetic loser and the reason Riot kills off champions.
: Scuttler Respawn Timer
I see that they want to make it 15 seconds longer for next patch. I don't think that's enough. 30 would be OK.
Rioter Comments
Zerenza (NA)
: Thank you Riot, For Destroying the Jungle.
you're massively overreacting and misevaluating you probably don't understand the patch in fact, Eve is STRONGER now if you use her correctly... see "sunset" for example not saying the changes are great but please get a grip, not every lost game is because "jg is ruined"
: His early game is awful ever since the nerfs...he went from easily invading to easily being invaded. His late game is also awful the only reason it seems strong is because dark harvest works well on him and gives him a let game, if you manage to go against one of those shacos who pick eletrocute or lethal tempo he'll fall off massively hard. He's got no reliable CC due to his boxes being cancelled from sweeper and his only escape is his only engage. I'm not judging you or your playstyle but if shaco is a problem you're likely in low elo, where he's actually good. He's awful against coordinated teams and can't do anything
> [{quoted}](name=Trash MammaI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U0BiPQJK,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-09T22:11:29.371+0000) > > His early game is awful ever since the nerfs...he went from easily invading to easily being invaded. His late game is also awful the only reason it seems strong is because dark harvest works well on him and gives him a let game, if you manage to go against one of those shacos who pick eletrocute or lethal tempo he'll fall off massively hard. He's got no reliable CC due to his boxes being cancelled from sweeper and his only escape is his only engage. > > I'm not judging you or your playstyle but if shaco is a problem you're likely in low elo, where he's actually good. He's awful against coordinated teams and can't do anything His late game is not awful. He has had among the best winrates past 40 minutes for months now. I've even seen Lethal Tempo Bloodrazor tanky Shacos and they're a menace late game especially. Regular Shacos are still a hue slippery annoyance. It's so hard to play against. He disrupts your entire team, nearly 1 shots late while getting out fairly easily and running circles around you and can start sneaky splits that even stop you from grouping against him. I fear no jungler late as much as Shaco because they are much more predictable and easier to counterplay - this includes Yi, Mundo, Jax, Wu (although he's pretty bonkers late too), Udyr, Shyv etc. He just has insane outplay potential while being very hard to pin down and stop if he plays well. Even when he's doing nothin, you have to play in fear that he's hanging around somewhere near. His winrate continues to be fantastic at all stages even in Diamond+ and there are several Shaco one-tricks in Challenger. I agree that he seems most OP at lower ELO and vs uncoordinated teams but I think the only reason he isn't used in competitive is the massive skill investment to make his true power come to light. Moreover, JG has less old especially in lower kill games and handing off buffs etc. so it's harder to get your items in competitive. If they picked Shaco, they'd probably need a more supportive Top/Mid to funnel more gold into Shaco. Basically, the time investment to make Shaco work and the higher risk in using him is not really justifying the pick. Maybe they'd win 5-10% more but they'd have to put in 5x the effort compared to the normal strategies. I'm not sure if Shaco is truly OP but he sure as hell feels OP whenever you face a good one.
: It is a poor choice of words and can probably be appealed
> [{quoted}](name=Rayjay Redfang,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WP7N9RU6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-07T20:51:21.265+0000) > > It is a poor choice of words and can probably be appealed How is it though? It's how Karthus plays optimally in some games vs squishies. Maybe an automated context-free bot shouldn't have the power to do more than warn players. Old Tribunal would not fall for this and was a much more fair system where trolls didn't have this overwhelming power while being shielded from any kind of negative response.
Danjeng (NA)
: What do people do in the first 1:40 seconds?
Yes, I think it should be reportable if anyone is afk at a turret until 1:40. A good invade or deep ward can decide a game. These people refusing to watch entrances to the jungle are really hurting their team.
: it would be cool if you could dial in how much mana IBG gives you. In turn it could give you some armor and increase the sheen dmg procs by a small %. Maybe by a factor of 8%. For every 100 mana removed. Up to -300mana. Only doable from shop Or could give you ad or ap adaptively in exchange for less mana.
> [{quoted}](name=LilxPaprika,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fnpk2fGM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-07T16:12:03.271+0000) > > it would be cool if you could dial in how much mana IBG gives you. In turn it could give you some armor and increase the sheen dmg procs by a small %. Maybe by a factor of 8%. For every 100 mana removed. Up to -300mana. > Only doable from shop > > Or could give you ad or ap adaptively in exchange for less mana. Sounds interesting but like too much work. It's already a nerf if you have to wait more than 2-3 seconds while buying items because you're making such adjustments.
: Melee APs & Defensive Itemization
Melee attack damage carries, even assassins, have it a lot easier too. They can go Ninja Tabi and Maw. Black Cleaver also adds some tankiness if they choose to use it. APs have more vulnerable builds if they also want to be big damage threats and they're usually not capable of the same sustained damage either.
Chermorg (NA)
: Your attitude in this response is the same type of attitude that led to your punishment. You think you're right, and if people don't listen and agree, you get more and more aggressive and insulting until they do. You criticized at points. And that's fine. You also insulted and harassed at times after they didn't listen to you. That's not fine. You don't own the team and they can all decide what they think the best way to win is. You don't have any right to make them play your way. So stop acting like you do.
> [{quoted}](name=Chermorg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0JIhtyBM,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-03T06:08:47.742+0000) > > Your attitude in this response is the same type of attitude that led to your punishment. You think you're right, and if people don't listen and agree, you get more and more aggressive and insulting until they do. > > You criticized at points. And that's fine. You also insulted and harassed at times after they didn't listen to you. That's not fine. > > You don't own the team and they can all decide what they think the best way to win is. You don't have any right to make them play your way. So stop acting like you do. Your definitions are wack if you consider any of this harassment or insulting. This is very mild stuff and looks like a false positive if anything. I think you have to be in the mindset to want to believe the system is right to even consider this punishable. If you saw these logs in your games with people trolling, you wouldn't consider it punishable if you're at all reasonable and honest. You probably would just go next and hope that you don't have trolls. This isn't toxic and the only reason you really think it is and defend it is because the system labeled him as such. If you can't even say that much then this game's chat is beyond dead and pointless. You just can't talk because the risk is way too high to offend someone and that makes it utterly depressing and stiffing. That kills games.
: i guess it helps with jgl camps but idk for sure
> [{quoted}](name=Step Sis Lux,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OBQgAPGl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-28T00:36:38.885+0000) > > i guess it helps with jgl camps but idk for sure Monsters aren't the same thing as minions.
Onotori (NA)
: This new ranking system is a bunch of bullshit to hide the issue.
Actually, ranks don't make as big of a difference as you think when people are off-role or on champs they don't play much. It's at least a whole tier of difference for some.
: Watching the Mage Nerfs as a Talon Main
> > 2. Everything assassins do have to have counterplays via huge delays/skillshots, but Enchanter supports can all double the effective health of an ADC with a few point and click spells that are also instantaneous. Hur dur dur Talon needs to play the vision game for a year and wait out the Ezreal's E to even think about going in, but all the efforts don't mean jack shit because that Ezreal also has a Lulu. Again referring to Yamikaze, there's a reason why he bans Lulu in every single game he plays, and dodges Zilean games on his main account. These enchanter supports, they need to suck at everything else wayyyy more for how well they can protect a single target. They have to lose something major in return for counterpicking an assassin, or assassins won't be worth picking, ever. I think part of the problem is that Riot seems to want champions to generally not waver too far from 50% winrates in either direction. The idea that a champion is nearly worthless outside of a counterpick situation isn't appealing,. If enchanters like Janna, Lulu and similar are generally worth picking blind, they are wayyyy too strong when actually facing what they counter: assassins. They could be at 45% winrates and they'd still be at least 50% winrate vs a Talon. As far as tanky items still being useful for damage, sure but fighters and divers need such items too. You can't go full damage on a Darius but you'd also be useless going full tank. You need items that make you a threat but still let you tank damage. For JG this is especially true. You want enough damage to be strong in a gank or in duels but you also don't want a full damage build where someone sneezing on you makes you worthless even if you have 18k gold. That's way too punishing. It's also terrible to have damage items when super behind. Not only are you not assassinating anything but you're also gettin 1-shot and providing no utility. At least if you have a Black Cleaver maybe you reduce their armor by let's say 15% before you die. Full damage item builds just generally don't work well unless you have a super slippery champion with a kit specifically letting them get away with it. Talon can sort of do it and I think he's in a pretty good spot. The other thing is that for JG at least, it's hard to go full damage also because of the old income discrepancy. Many damage items have break points where they're super good but if taken too late, that snowball potential making the item attractive is gone. Let's say you're Ekko and building Gunblade. It's a pretty ood first item but it would be a bad way to spend gold if you're going to complete it at 30 minutes. BTW: Tanks still do need good base damages to be relevant or else they're just ignored. Even if they have some CC, they become too much of a liability. Moreover, they tend to be much more kiteable and are quite vulnerable to ADCs. They're supposed to be able to zone and that requires both damage and CC. It's just a different purpose but yes, they should shit on you in melee range. I don't think tanks are actually out of line now. They're great mid game but fall off. Cut Down, Lord Dom, Void, Liandry's, BC etc. all ruin them. Bruisers are a bit stronger since they tend to have more sustain which makes them quite tanky but they're also more mobile and remain a large damage threat. There's an interplay of so many thins that it's really hard for me to say what/if anything should be done.
: I just want this game to be fun again
And when they have too much catch up XP, or too much gold for shutdowns, the people ACTUALLY PLAYING WELL and with a lead feel that the result is pure RNG. This is a strategy game and in the end, bad early decisions have consequences. It's just like if you drop a piece in chess. You don't blame the game for how unfair it is that your opponent is much stronger and you can't create any real pressure down a piece. Sometimes you manage to win anyway but most of the time, you accept the consequences of your mistakes and move on to the next game. I think this game is harder to carry than in past seasons overall. Players got better and the team element matters more. They've already put some brakes on good players solo carrying and that feels really bad for those players. It feels like they're being punished for being good at the game. If a game like this is snowbally, it's often exactly because the skill element and results are correlated. If the games were close even when one team feeds kills randomly and misses large waves etc., this game would be shit. It would have minimal agency and it would be silly to even attempt to be good at it. A lot of the comebacks you crave from before were due to players just being bad at the game and not knowing how to end or what to do to press their lead. Back to the question of whether it's too snowbally... idk. I do remember when catch up XP was overtuned though and it felt awful to jungle because it seemed that your role didn't even matter in terms of the opposing matchup. There has to be a balance somewhere but as much as I hate getting snowballed against, I also want to feel like I can carry or why even bother improving? BTW: Idk how S5 was but I did quite like it. DQ in S6 made me basically abandon the game since serious players who cared about competitive integrity and a balanced ranked system were basically ignored. Now, I think it's OK but I do sort of feel that early game matters more than usual... part of it is related to team comps. too. Assassins are great at snowballing.
: If LT is Liandry's Torment, I don't know. When I play him I go for burst damage with a single ult duskblade trinity hydra. If he were to go for AP I'd want all the spell shields I could muster since he doesn't have any innate tankiness. {{item:3102}} {{item:3814}} The defensive AP items are a lot worse than the defensive AD ones honestly.
> [{quoted}](name=PopcornBunni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=REo7vhPv,comment-id=00000004000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-22T23:17:48.996+0000) > > If LT is Liandry's Torment, I don't know. When I play him I go for burst damage with a single ult duskblade trinity hydra. > > If he were to go for AP I'd want all the spell shields I could muster since he doesn't have any innate tankiness. {{item:3102}} {{item:3814}} > > The defensive AP items are a lot worse than the defensive AD ones honestly. Lethal Tempo
: > [{quoted}](name=exigentomic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=REo7vhPv,comment-id=00000004,timestamp=2018-04-22T21:33:40.240+0000) > > because it's all relative > > in fact, Bronze 5 now is a lot better than Bronze 5 a few years ago since the playerbase improved overall > > this actually makes it harder for newer players To back this up, RedMercy did a video a while ago placing into Bronze to show how to solo carry and noticed bronze players were lacking in execution but had much stronger game knowledge and decision making than expected. What was lacking was the coordination and reading/adjusting accordingly.
> [{quoted}](name=PopcornBunni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=REo7vhPv,comment-id=000000040000,timestamp=2018-04-22T22:01:42.414+0000) > > To back this up, RedMercy did a video a while ago placing into Bronze to show how to solo carry and noticed bronze players were lacking in execution but had much stronger game knowledge and decision making than expected. What was lacking was the coordination and reading/adjusting accordingly. Since this is an older game with a large player base, people got better over the years. Ranking isn't absolute after all. It's relative. Even if we were all Diamond level skill magically right now by a snap of my fingers, there would still be all these tiers. The difference is that you'd need to be significantly better than current Diamond level to not be placed in the middle of the pack. However, rank is absolutely highly correlated with game knowledge, execution, strategy etc. I see very clear differences when smurfing in Silver compared to high Gold... even basic things like having people watch the J more early or enemy junglers correctly invading me if I'm playing a weaker junler/gankig on the other side of the map. There are innumerable nuances that high gold players understand which those in Silver as a whole don't seem to. Some Silver players know one nuance while another a different one etc. but it isn't common knowledge as much and fewer are known at the same time. I totally agree that the difference between the tiers isn't as dramatic as a few years ago since the skill of the player base increased as a whole but it's still absolutely there. The mistakes are just a bit less obvious. It's kind of how in chess if you play with a beginner they just drop pieces a lot and it's really obvious. On the other hand, a Class A player vs a Master won't drop pieces randomly and yet will still be absolutely crushed in the vast majority of games. It'll be subtle positional mistakes adding up to an eventual late game disadvantage or harder to spot tactics etc. The difference is still enormous as indicated by the rating performance but to someone without the Master players' knowledge, it isn't so clear why. BTW: Would love your thoughts on Nocturne with LT. I replied to you in another thread. It's something I've been experimenting with a bit myself.
: the assumption that bronze players aren't diamond-plat players playing on new unbanned accounts is a naïve assumption at best. Rank means nothing.
> [{quoted}](name=PhearBunny,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mR9LEA9U,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-22T19:42:06.560+0000) > > the assumption that bronze players aren't diamond-plat players playing on new unbanned accounts is a naïve assumption at best. > Rank means nothing. I've made several new accounts (not because I was perma banned) and never got placed in Bronze. Rank correlates highly with game knowledge and champion mastery. Even if I get placed in Silver, when I actually want to climb, I already end-up in mid gold within a few weeks. If I'm testing some champions or roles I'm less familiar, than sure, rank might not be as representative of my skill ceiling. However, it still is accurate for the quality of my play within those restrictions. I tried Kayn with almost no experience for a dozen games on a new account and got stuck in mid Silver for a bit. This was actually my skill level for Kayn though and I was also picking him in awful comps without ever goin Blue Kayn. It's not the ranked system being wrong. Rank = performance. Performance = skill long-term. It's the only objective metric of how good someone is at the game. People can think and say what they want, but we all have the same environment in ranked over a sufficient number of games. You make the difference. Even very small things like back timings, ward placement and timing, where you choose to recall, if you walk and back near the farther wall after finishing Dragon and millions of other such things add up to a measurable difference over time. For the highest ranks like Diamond+, sure, they start to mean a bit less because these players are far more affected by the meta. If their champion pool is really unfavorable, people are good enough to exploit that and so a player who was Masters the previous season might fall to D3 with no decline in skill level just because of the meta. BTW: My highest was Plat 5 so if even I have never been placed in Bronze on a new account, I'm sure someone who is Diamond wouldn't be. Even if it happened by some freakish bad luck (constant DCs/trolls/afks), the situation would change within a dozen games or so. Boosting wouldn't be a thing if rank wasn't very indicative. I couldn't go on a new account and achieve my old rank within 50 games or so while also struggling at the same levels. It's extremely consistent.
: Nocturne uses Lethal Tempo in conjunction with Celerity. Umbrablades had their uptime doubled on champions, so attackspeed ended up outweighing Electrocute for our ghost friend. Also, Lethal Tempo triggers 1.5seconds after dealing damage, coincidentally that's how long it takes for his fear to trigger. So, Q Trail+Fear=20-60AD off of Q, and 32AD from Celerity. Spell shielding with LT allows him to break AS barriers as early as lvl2... In otherwords, while his target is feared, he has +52AD(lowest) to +92AD(Max ranked Q) And is breaking attack speed barriers while slapping this champion around with a whopping amount of AD just baked into his kit+runes.
> [{quoted}](name=PhearBunny,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BZdQb2kj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-06T16:33:25.723+0000) > > Nocturne uses Lethal Tempo in conjunction with Celerity. > > Umbrablades had their uptime doubled on champions, so attackspeed ended up outweighing Electrocute for our ghost friend. > Also, Lethal Tempo triggers 1.5seconds after dealing damage, coincidentally that's how long it takes for his fear to trigger. > So, Q Trail+Fear=20-60AD off of Q, and 32AD from Celerity. > Spell shielding with LT allows him to break AS barriers as early as lvl2... > > In otherwords, while his target is feared, he has +52AD(lowest) to +92AD(Max ranked Q) > And is breaking attack speed barriers while slapping this champion around with a whopping amount of AD just baked into his kit+runes. Would you go Warrior with this or Bloodrazor? What items would you build? I figured Electrocute with its .5 bonus AD scaling and 220 damage would outclass it but I can see an argument for LT. Is it more vs tankier comps or do you think it's better in general? With Electrocute and a couple of Kills I kill them with R-Q-auto (proccing Electrocute and Duskblade). I like this because it gives them less of a chance to kite/outplay me. Being forced to wait out the E charge time would reduce my snowballing potential once already ahead. LT sounds especially interesting if going a crit. build. BTW: Would you go Presence of Mind now? I can see it sort of workin better for early-mid game. Later on it falls off because mana isn't a serious issue and your R is on such a low CD that lowering it doesn't even help.
: How can people be in Bronze V without doing it on purpose ? Honest question
> [{quoted}](name=Dead flag blues,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=REo7vhPv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-22T12:18:16.173+0000) > > How can people be in Bronze V without doing it on purpose ? Honest question because it's all relative in fact, Bronze 5 now is a lot better than Bronze 5 a few years ago since the playerbase improved overall this actually makes it harder for newer players
: I was surprised by the amount of negative discussion around the mana changes personally, as the manaflow band changes we shipped recently had a much more noticeable effect on how the laning phase played out IMO. I haven't experienced any feelings that the class feels dramatically weaker in our playtests. I believe that players learning to opt OUT of interaction with their opponents has made the game a lot less fun, and every time I see an Inspiration/Resolve TF with Minion Dematerializer, I get a little sad. I do think there will be followup balance necessary, however, as opting out of interaction is how you survive the laning phase against a lot of assassins (Fizz/Zed/LeBlanc) and believe that trying to get towards a state where it is a fallback strategy as opposed to the optimized strategy in most matchups is desirable for making mid lane more fun over the long term.
> [{quoted}](name=penguin,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=oYqIA0zf,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-04-18T23:34:52.497+0000) > > I was surprised by the amount of negative discussion around the mana changes personally, as the manaflow band changes we shipped recently had a much more noticeable effect on how the laning phase played out IMO. I haven't experienced any feelings that the class feels dramatically weaker in our playtests. > > I believe that players learning to opt OUT of interaction with their opponents has made the game a lot less fun, and every time I see an Inspiration/Resolve TF with Minion Dematerializer, I get a little sad. I do think there will be followup balance necessary, however, as opting out of interaction is how you survive the laning phase against a lot of assassins (Fizz/Zed/LeBlanc) and believe that trying to get towards a state where it is a fallback strategy as opposed to the optimized strategy in most matchups is desirable for making mid lane more fun over the long term. I like the mana changes from a balance direction. If champions are less dependent on Doran's for huge mana regen, maybe AP junglers like Ekko can be given some needed changes (perhaps his passive vs monsters can give some missing mana back for example - although maybe his armor's a bigger issue).
: I was surprised by the amount of negative discussion around the mana changes personally, as the manaflow band changes we shipped recently had a much more noticeable effect on how the laning phase played out IMO. I haven't experienced any feelings that the class feels dramatically weaker in our playtests. I believe that players learning to opt OUT of interaction with their opponents has made the game a lot less fun, and every time I see an Inspiration/Resolve TF with Minion Dematerializer, I get a little sad. I do think there will be followup balance necessary, however, as opting out of interaction is how you survive the laning phase against a lot of assassins (Fizz/Zed/LeBlanc) and believe that trying to get towards a state where it is a fallback strategy as opposed to the optimized strategy in most matchups is desirable for making mid lane more fun over the long term.
> [{quoted}](name=penguin,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=oYqIA0zf,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-04-18T23:34:52.497+0000) > > I was surprised by the amount of negative discussion around the mana changes personally, as the manaflow band changes we shipped recently had a much more noticeable effect on how the laning phase played out IMO. I haven't experienced any feelings that the class feels dramatically weaker in our playtests. > > I believe that players learning to opt OUT of interaction with their opponents has made the game a lot less fun, and every time I see an Inspiration/Resolve TF with Minion Dematerializer, I get a little sad. I do think there will be followup balance necessary, however, as opting out of interaction is how you survive the laning phase against a lot of assassins (Fizz/Zed/LeBlanc) and believe that trying to get towards a state where it is a fallback strategy as opposed to the optimized strategy in most matchups is desirable for making mid lane more fun over the long term. People just don't want their results to suffer.
: Kick Smiteless "Junglers"
bump for continued relevance had a Yi JG without Smite on my team...
Revali (NA)
: 9 starting ap with resolve amplifying your aoe health regeneration from talisman and pots ticking. it isn't the best but its probably the healthiest clear for ekko.
> [{quoted}](name=Revali,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oGmGF9nP,comment-id=000d00010000,timestamp=2018-04-09T23:14:01.717+0000) > > 9 starting ap with resolve amplifying your aoe health regeneration from talisman and pots ticking. it isn't the best but its probably the healthiest clear for ekko. I can see that being a decent choice into invading junglers. I really struggle vs Yi and Udyr as Ekko. They just outfarm and outscale me but I also don't do much early due to how much damage and mana I use when clearing. Plus, the W is super unreliable for ganks (at least for me).
: To start off, you're 100% correct in expressing frustration when you feel the game **you** play is negatively impacted by balance decisions that are made focused on the highest levels of play. You're opinion is one that's certainly shared by a large group of players, but it's also only one of several of the demographics that make up our playerbase that we're trying to serve with both solo queue and the professional scene. Let me elaborate: Group A - Just wants to play League doesn't care about the pro scene Group B - Enjoys League, tunes in occasionally to watch the pro scene (usually for big things like playoff finals, MSI, Worlds) Group C - Enjoys League, watches LCS religiously (every weekend they make time to watch every game or atleast the games with their favorite teams. Group D - Used to play League, doesn't anymore, but still watches the LCS because they like the pro scene Group E - Never played League before, but I friend told them it was pretty cool and got them to watch a few games. *These groups are not all encompassing, but what I'm trying to outline is that the number of people that care about there being some amount of focus put on pro play balance is far greater than just the players that actually play professionally. Now, more direct to your point, I have a desire/goal for a future where we don't have to make as many changes to champions based on their performance in pro play nearly as much as we do now. Right now we're beset by two conflicting goals, we (Riot) really want pro play to be as exciting as possible, and professional teams really want to win, more or less regardless of the tactics. Why these conflict is that the path to victory is often one of min maxing for risk/reward - which manifests as choosing more generically strong champions with less pronounced weaknesses, and then out macroing the shit out of your opponent. Why choose Zed when you can pick Ryze who's proven to have far fewer weaknesses when playing in a low ping, highly coordinated environment as an example? In order to make Zed a more likely pick in pro, we'd likely need to buff him drastically to overcome his weaknesses/counterplay - which is a surefire way of putting him in crazy territory for our average solo queue warrior. Since that isn't really a great option, we need to find another way. We're currently putting some brainpower in how we could help shelter pro play from specific points of imbalance, letting us put less focus on pro play in regards to balance and focusing more on the regular game. It sucks to have your champion heavily nerfed, especially when it's for something you don't care about, we totally understand that, and ideally we can find a world where that can become less of a thing that we need to do. Potential avenues could be exploring changes to the drafting phase beyond 10 bans. There really isn't much to talk about yet though. At the end of the day we highly value League as a spectator sport, and we'll continue to make changes that we believe help achieve that. We just need to make sure we're doing our diligence when we're making big changes that could impact the way the players actually engage with the game and make sure the cost is worth it. I stand by our decision to remove trackers as an example, as I firmly believe the value in terms of "quality of game" we get both in pro and normal was worth the cost of removing that one item. To close off, we simply can't shackle ourselves by only making decisions that all players will find agreeable, as doing so would mean we should probably just stop making any meaningful changes to the game period, and that's not a world that I think we should be moving towards. ps - the archangels change is only archangels. Once it's upgraded to Seraph's you get the full 3% ap again. Right now it's simply too good as a rush item when it's intended to be more mid/late game scaling power spike.
> [{quoted}](name=Splitgrips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1UbZdRKB,comment-id=00060002,timestamp=2018-04-11T22:59:04.126+0000) > > hey .. 1%er .. dont care... > i want to have fun at a game not live in the game. You're asking for the game to be shit just to satisfy your casual fun (which is actually not really affected by balance). The game wouldn't have even become popular if such a lazy approach was taken to gameplay. You invest little in the game in terms of time/skill and yet think you matter the most because you're the majority. How does that make sense? What if we applied that logic to heart surgery, programming or anything else requiring expertise? Should we take a poll on the street for those? You're literally asking to make the game shittier and objectively worse/less balanced because somehow you think that it should put training wheels on rather than you having to adapt. Why would anyone bother to read a guide, watch streams, learn strategy etc. if they thought the game was balanced terribly as soon as you got good at it? It would be a farce and the laughing stock of e-sports. All these content creators revolving around league would drop it like a hot potato and so would any serious players once they understand what's going on and see how the game's reputation is going to the toilet. For what too? To please some whiners who play normies with friends and two dozen ranked games a season (players that barely take any effort to attempt to understand what's going on)? One's voice on balance should be a function of their ability to understand the game, not merely existing. That's such a self-entitled and arrogant attitude. And the thing is, it's all an excuse anyway. No one's stuck in Silver, Bronze or even Gold etc. because their champion is balanced for proper play. There's a guy who got Masters recently maining Brand jungle. Take some responsibility and stop trying to ruin the game for others. I would not give a shit at all about this game if they took this atrocious balance approach. This is supposed to be a strategically complex competitive game when you play ranked. That requires good balance to function and it's hard enough with 130 champions without intentionally making it less reflective of actual balance. Proper balance has to assume correct play or it's entirely worthless and shouldn't even be referred as balance ("tweaking" would be more accurate.
: hey .. 1%er .. dont care... i want to have fun at a game not live in the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Splitgrips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1UbZdRKB,comment-id=00060002,timestamp=2018-04-11T22:59:04.126+0000) > > hey .. 1%er .. dont care... > i want to have fun at a game not live in the game. You're asking for the game to be shit just to satisfy your casual fun (which is actually not much affected by balance). The game wouldn't have even become popular if such a lazy approach was taken to gameplay. You invest very little in the game in terms of time/skill and yet think you matter the most because you're the majority. How does that make sense? What if we applied that logic to heart surgery, programming or anything else requiring expertise? You're literally asking to make the game shittier and objectively worse/less balanced because somehow you think that it should put training wheels on rather than you having to adapt. And the thing is, it's al an excuse anyway. No one's stuck in Silver, Bronze or even Gold etc. because their champion is balanced for proper play. There's a guy who got Masters recently maining Brand jungle. Take some responsibility and stop trying to ruin the game. I would not give a shit at all about this game if they took this atrocious balance approach. Proper balance has to assume correct play or it's entirely worthless and shouldn't even be referred as balance ("tweaking" would be more accurate.
: To start off, you're 100% correct in expressing frustration when you feel the game **you** play is negatively impacted by balance decisions that are made focused on the highest levels of play. You're opinion is one that's certainly shared by a large group of players, but it's also only one of several of the demographics that make up our playerbase that we're trying to serve with both solo queue and the professional scene. Let me elaborate: Group A - Just wants to play League doesn't care about the pro scene Group B - Enjoys League, tunes in occasionally to watch the pro scene (usually for big things like playoff finals, MSI, Worlds) Group C - Enjoys League, watches LCS religiously (every weekend they make time to watch every game or atleast the games with their favorite teams. Group D - Used to play League, doesn't anymore, but still watches the LCS because they like the pro scene Group E - Never played League before, but I friend told them it was pretty cool and got them to watch a few games. *These groups are not all encompassing, but what I'm trying to outline is that the number of people that care about there being some amount of focus put on pro play balance is far greater than just the players that actually play professionally. Now, more direct to your point, I have a desire/goal for a future where we don't have to make as many changes to champions based on their performance in pro play nearly as much as we do now. Right now we're beset by two conflicting goals, we (Riot) really want pro play to be as exciting as possible, and professional teams really want to win, more or less regardless of the tactics. Why these conflict is that the path to victory is often one of min maxing for risk/reward - which manifests as choosing more generically strong champions with less pronounced weaknesses, and then out macroing the shit out of your opponent. Why choose Zed when you can pick Ryze who's proven to have far fewer weaknesses when playing in a low ping, highly coordinated environment as an example? In order to make Zed a more likely pick in pro, we'd likely need to buff him drastically to overcome his weaknesses/counterplay - which is a surefire way of putting him in crazy territory for our average solo queue warrior. Since that isn't really a great option, we need to find another way. We're currently putting some brainpower in how we could help shelter pro play from specific points of imbalance, letting us put less focus on pro play in regards to balance and focusing more on the regular game. It sucks to have your champion heavily nerfed, especially when it's for something you don't care about, we totally understand that, and ideally we can find a world where that can become less of a thing that we need to do. Potential avenues could be exploring changes to the drafting phase beyond 10 bans. There really isn't much to talk about yet though. At the end of the day we highly value League as a spectator sport, and we'll continue to make changes that we believe help achieve that. We just need to make sure we're doing our diligence when we're making big changes that could impact the way the players actually engage with the game and make sure the cost is worth it. I stand by our decision to remove trackers as an example, as I firmly believe the value in terms of "quality of game" we get both in pro and normal was worth the cost of removing that one item. To close off, we simply can't shackle ourselves by only making decisions that all players will find agreeable, as doing so would mean we should probably just stop making any meaningful changes to the game period, and that's not a world that I think we should be moving towards. ps - the archangels change is only archangels. Once it's upgraded to Seraph's you get the full 3% ap again. Right now it's simply too good as a rush item when it's intended to be more mid/late game scaling power spike.
> [{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1UbZdRKB,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2018-04-11T21:58:02.750+0000) > > To start off, you're 100% correct in expressing frustration when you feel the game **you** play is negatively impacted by balance decisions that are made focused on the highest levels of play. You're opinion is one that's certainly shared by a large group of players, but it's also only one of several of the demographics that make up our playerbase that we're trying to serve with both solo queue and the professional scene. Let me elaborate: > > Group A - Just wants to play League doesn't care about the pro scene > Group B - Enjoys League, tunes in occasionally to watch the pro scene (usually for big things like playoff finals, MSI, Worlds) > Group C - Enjoys League, watches LCS religiously (every weekend they make time to watch every game or atleast the games with their favorite teams. > Group D - Used to play League, doesn't anymore, but still watches the LCS because they like the pro scene > Group E - Never played League before, but I friend told them it was pretty cool and got them to watch a few games. > > *These groups are not all encompassing, but what I'm trying to outline is that the number of people that care about there being some amount of focus put on pro play balance is far greater than just the players that actually play professionally. > > Now, more direct to your point, I have a desire/goal for a future where we don't have to make as many changes to champions based on their performance in pro play nearly as much as we do now. Right now we're beset by two conflicting goals, we (Riot) really want pro play to be as exciting as possible, and professional teams really want to win, more or less regardless of the tactics. Why these conflict is that the path to victory is often one of min maxing for risk/reward - which manifests as choosing more generically strong champions with less pronounced weaknesses, and then out macroing the shit out of your opponent. Why choose Zed when you can pick Ryze who's proven to have far fewer weaknesses when playing in a low ping, highly coordinated environment as an example? In order to make Zed a more likely pick in pro, we'd likely need to buff him drastically to overcome his weaknesses/counterplay - which is a surefire way of putting him in crazy territory for our average solo queue warrior. Since that isn't really a great option, we need to find another way. We're currently putting some brainpower in how we could help shelter pro play from specific points of imbalance, letting us put less focus on pro play in regards to balance and focusing more on the regular game. It sucks to have your champion heavily nerfed, especially when it's for something you don't care about, we totally understand that, and ideally we can find a world where that can become less of a thing that we need to do. Potential avenues could be exploring changes to the drafting phase beyond 10 bans. There really isn't much to talk about yet though. > > At the end of the day we highly value League as a spectator sport, and we'll continue to make changes that we believe help achieve that. We just need to make sure we're doing our diligence when we're making big changes that could impact the way the players actually engage with the game and make sure the cost is worth it. I stand by our decision to remove trackers as an example, as I firmly believe the value in terms of "quality of game" we get both in pro and normal was worth the cost of removing that one item. To close off, we simply can't shackle ourselves by only making decisions that all players will find agreeable, as doing so would mean we should probably just stop making any meaningful changes to the game period, and that's not a world that I think we should be moving towards. > > ps - the archangels change is only archangels. Once it's upgraded to Seraph's you get the full 3% ap again. Right now it's simply too good as a rush item when it's intended to be more mid/late game scaling power spike. How viable would it be to have a pure SQ mode focused on balance around optimal play and then Flex Queue or whatever with a different set of balance rules for plat level+ like now? I've wanted a pure SQ ladder for a long time and only care about games which have true balance based on the absolute highest level of play. This makes them fundamentally more fair and also more rewarding to improve at. I think this would add so much more competitiveness to the ladder for those who care about that. There would be less frustration about playing with those who really don't have that mindset and are treating it almost like normals. Those who are super competitive and dedicated to improving probably care more about the integrity of the ranked system and proper balance too.
: No reason to do this other than to "protect" from players disagreeing with or being critical... and no. I genuinely don't see why resources need to be assigned to this. There is no -need- at all for this to exist, y'know?
> [{quoted}](name=Super%%%%%,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FjfwAi2K,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-02T16:58:51.774+0000) > > No reason to do this other than to "protect" from players disagreeing with or being critical... and no. I genuinely don't see why resources need to be assigned to this. > > There is no -need- at all for this to exist, y'know? I'm pretty sure it's not hard to implement and yes, I don't think I should be criticized in normal games. I don't think there's any reason that those stats should be always available if I don't want that. For ranked, I perfectly understand since that's a competitive format I have zero problem with that.
Venompaw (NA)
: You want Ekko to be buffed for a certain playstyle while other playstyles are still fine?
> [{quoted}](name=Venompaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EzEddUKi,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-02T23:06:13.526+0000) > > You want Ekko to be buffed for a certain playstyle while other playstyles are still fine? Yes, because I'd like more than one play style on any champion if possible. However, I tried this some more in actual ranked games and AP Ekko is just too feast/famine if behind. I think I just have to go tanky if I'm not snowballing... especially if I start 0/3.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: No as usual the only valid strategy is have the braindead adc sit in the back and auto for over 1000 damage with unmissable right clicks. https://m.imgur.com/a/wcrTT Done with this. So boring and this just blatantly shows how ridiculous this games bot lane centric play is.
> [{quoted}](name=vgamedude,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Gbotp99,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-02T01:13:19.045+0000) > > No as usual the only valid strategy is have the braindead adc sit in the back and auto for over 1000 damage with unmissable right clicks. > > https://m.imgur.com/a/wcrTT > > > Done with this. So boring and this just blatantly shows how ridiculous this games bot lane centric play is. most games don't last 73 minutes though :D
An Draoi (NA)
: Is it intended for a jungle to gank 3 times before level 6?
go play jungle and find out how "easy" it is
: > [{quoted}](name=exigentomic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Gbotp99,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-02T00:01:22.706+0000) > no wave control... did you even watch this
> [{quoted}](name=ScoundrelRuffian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Gbotp99,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-02T00:17:14.374+0000) > > no wave control... > > did you even watch this I guess you can consider the slow pushing wave control but it felt like no one could ever leave for an incredibly long time.
: Emotes toxic
get over it... learn to take some banter if even this bothers you, idk what to tell you I think you might be able to disable the animations
Rioter Comments
: > * A Tahm Kench nerf aimed at giving opponents more ways to deal with him when he's saving allies. What we're currently testing is that he no longer gains bonus movement speed when moving towards enemies if he has an ally devoured. Original intent was that that would encourage more aggressive ally devour cases. It mainly seems to result in TK running away faster because there's often an enemy along the line of his retreat (or close enough to, the directional check's pretty generous in its angles). Two things with this. One- Tahm Kench already has a mediocre winnrate (I think he's 49% as a support right now?). Making this change wouldn't help. The Tahm Kench Mains (including myself) absolutely use the MS to make plays. W'ing an allied invisible'd twitch into the back line is a lot of fun. Their whole team _knows_ that you just spat out an invisible twitch, so they hold cc and spells while your damage carry mid and jungle bash their front line to pieces. Twitch can stay invisible until W is off CD, and then "AAAAH HAHAHAHA" Two-. If you do take it away, please re-incorporate it into his kit elsewhere. Kench is the ultimate lane bully in melee matchups. Double down on this narrow image of him by granting 2, 5, 10 bonus Ms towards a passively marked enemy. It encourages aggressive play (which you love) it doesn't make him completely broken, because he's still garbage in 5v5 team fights, but it makes him (best in show) in tank champion split pushing champions that rely on macro to win versus flashy five man inSec ults. He basically becomes the answer to "who is going to lane against a 35 minute 18k gold Fiora/Tryndamere/Camille/Irelia". It's a very narrow role, it doesn't provide an enormous amount of power to affect a team fight, and it gives him a quality of life update in a League that is increasingly placing an emphasis on movement abilities, dashes, etc. For even more counter play potential to this bonus MS, you can tie the movement speed bonus to his E. It only operates while E is not activated and not on cooldown (aka generating grey health). This makes the decision to use the thick skin shield a little more important, and not just a 'spam it every 3-4 seconds' during a 1v1 side lane duel.
> [{quoted}](name=Dannar Hetoshi,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=na3Ko02t,comment-id=0098,timestamp=2018-03-31T17:29:55.938+0000) > > Two things with this. > > One- Tahm Kench already has a mediocre winnrate (I think he's 49% as a support right now?). Making this change wouldn't help. The Tahm Kench Mains (including myself) absolutely use the MS to make plays. W'ing an allied invisible'd twitch into the back line is a lot of fun. Their whole team _knows_ that you just spat out an invisible twitch, so they hold cc and spells while your damage carry mid and jungle bash their front line to pieces. Twitch can stay invisible until W is off CD, and then "AAAAH HAHAHAHA" > > Two-. If you do take it away, please re-incorporate it into his kit elsewhere. Kench is the ultimate lane bully in melee matchups. Double down on this narrow image of him by granting 2, 5, 10 bonus Ms towards a passively marked enemy. It encourages aggressive play (which you love) it doesn't make him completely broken, because he's still garbage in 5v5 team fights, but it makes him (best in show) in tank champion split pushing champions that rely on macro to win versus flashy five man inSec ults. He basically becomes the answer to "who is going to lane against a 35 minute 18k gold Fiora/Tryndamere/Camille/Irelia". It's a very narrow role, it doesn't provide an enormous amount of power to affect a team fight, and it gives him a quality of life update in a League that is increasingly placing an emphasis on movement abilities, dashes, etc. > > For even more counter play potential to this bonus MS, you can tie the movement speed bonus to his E. It only operates while E is not activated and not on cooldown (aka generating grey health). This makes the decision to use the thick skin shield a little more important, and not just a 'spam it every 3-4 seconds' during a 1v1 side lane duel. I want Kench back to being good in the jungle most of all. His ultimate and W fit the role if only he wasn't so awful at everything else. I want him to actually be balanced around jungle though. I don't want him to just accidentally be viable there and then worthless 3 patches later. They need to actually think about it and make it happen for the long haul.
: What's the counterplay to Tahm Kench as a melee champion
He's just not good later in 5v5. He just duels well.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 16
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=YJ096TqY,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-03-16T15:31:58.956+0000) > > Hey all, > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > **Usual Disclaimers** > > These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > **Some possible 8.7 changes** > > Some potential 8.7 patch changes below. 8.7's a small patch, particularly since we're approaching midseason so are putting some time into that. It'll be on the lighter side as a result, with a fair bit of it made up from things that didn't make it in time for 8.6. Early on in the 8.7 development cycle we'll also be more focused on systemic changes than champion stuff, a bit of extra champion balance work is likely to make it in later though. > > Champions > > * Swain nerf. Most likely candidates are Q CD (might have lowered it too far) and Q damage. Still figuring details out though, nothing solid yet. > * Rumble buff. Straight Q and R damage buffs from 8.6 were ok but don't think they were targeted enough at Rumble's problems. Trying to do a bit more as a result. > * Ahri changes (still working on clearer highs and lows, plus general strengths and weaknesses). > * LB changes. More likely to be in 8.8 at this point because there's some visual effects work still needed that's not on track for an 8.7 release. Possible it still makes it into 8.7 though. > * Kayn changes that should smooth out transformation point gain over game time. Likely to be a slight buff and should help lane Kayn a bit more than jungle Kayn too. > > > Runes > > * Manaflow Band nerf/reshape (reduces mana gating too much) > * Presence of Mind reshape (too strong on its best users, not strong enough on many others) > * Numbers tuning on some other runes that are just not balanced well enough (e.g. Approach Velocity is weak, Celerity is strong etc) > > Items > > * Still working to make Locket more contextual (good some games, bad others) and probably less effective against single target burst champs > * Looking at Ninja Tabi, given they're really dominant choices for the boots slot and can have a very large impact on some lanes. Number of things we need to figure out here, including how much they're just too good a general choice, how much they're just too strong, how important they are as a safety valve to AA champs, how much of a safety valve (or excessive counter?) to Lethality, what the right mixture of Armor versus other defensive effects is etc. We're trying to avoid solving a couple of problems only to replace them with other equally large ones. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > **Non LoL related game design: Floating Combat Text in Diablo 3** > > Interesting article below where some of the Diablo 3 team talk about their approach to building a better combat text approach, including problems they had to solve around localizing for different languages, delivering both satisfaction and readability, working well with a variety of different hero builds and appropriate use of color. Well worth a read if that sounds like your sort of thing. > > https://eu.diablo3.com/en/blog/19996041/engineering-diablo-iiis-damage-numbers-22-01-2016 > > > > http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png I don't think Celerity needs another nerf. It seems just right to me but it's a good generalist pick. If it were to get another nerf, I probably wouldn't even go Sorcery secondary on a lot of champions. Right now, I feel like there's a choice. For example, with Nocturne, I can go Domination secondary for more burst or Sorcery for more utility and ults. The same goes for WW and many other champs. Even a small nerf to Celerity would tilt the scales to completely avoiding Sorcery secondary on many champions. I don't think Ninja Tabi are OP either. I know winrates can be very misleading but look at the boot winrates for many champions. Ninja are usually just about the same. Ninja Tabi are useful vs JG monsters too and for turret dives. ADCs are broken late so they are quite needed. Even early ADCs are pretty damn strong. They are just insane to play VS when facing a good one.
: Is Evelynn gonna get a buff anytime soon?
she doesn't need one if you're good at her
: Grasp Feels Too Exclusive to Top Lane
Nunu and Mundo agree with this. :)
: Fleet Footwork has no late game fantasy
The minion healing effect on Fleet Footwork offers another balance lever. Healing off minions can help laning quite a bit even at the 60% value. If they're worried about scaling buffs making it too oppressive early on, the healing from minions can be a lower or scaling value. This would open up additional power budget for late game.
Rioter Comments
: What do you think?
> [{quoted}](name=REPORTYASUOXD,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UEn1Qof4,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-15T08:11:54.557+0000) > > What do you think? I'd assume yes but it's not exactly a potion so idk which is why there's the question.
Rioter Comments
: Then what the fuck is the OP talking about? He builds AD on Corki but wants AP because Corki deals magic damage, what?
> [{quoted}](name=Cinquino Show,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KsqTTsbQ,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-11-10T03:35:55.994+0000) > > Then what the fuck is the OP talking about? > > He builds AD on Corki but wants AP because Corki deals magic damage, what? The OP is talking about ALL the ADAPTIVE damage masteries like Electrocute or Press the Attack actually doing PHYSICAL damage on Corki simply because Corki buys AD.
: Sorry that I don't play Corki but if that's the case, then... why build AD on Corki in the first place?
> [{quoted}](name=TonyWolf77,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KsqTTsbQ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-10T03:23:16.153+0000) > > Sorry that I don't play Corki but if that's the case, then... why build AD on Corki in the first place? I hope you're trolling... He's an ADC that has a passive to do magic damage and his AP ratios have been nerfed heavily. It isn't viable except building as an ADC. If you're not trolling, just look up his kit.
: feels dirty but im loving the spell vamp on vlad again
Vlad did feel a bit more OP than usual...
Blyted (NA)
: Please reduce the 10% CDR
It's a late game trade off. It's not something you're supposed to be able to take every game vs any matchup. You pay a large price considering that many game are nearly decided in 10 minutes.
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exigentomic

Level 30 (NA)
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