Rioter Comments
: Dont. Buff. Pyke.
A lot of assassins feel frustrating to play against, especially when they're strong. Pyke is unique in that he is almost never terrible because of his utility. There is no denying that Pyke is an assassin, yes in the support role, but he is still an assassin. And assassins usually have to earn the first couple of kills to start snowballing because if they don't they're useless. If an assassin doesn't get ahead they're useless, besides Master Yi as he is an exception, but Pyke is never useless, he always adds to a fight through his cc and execution. Assassins aren't suppose to have hard cc, there are exceptions to the rule of course but it's a rule for a reason. There is no reasonable counter to being stunned followed by an execute, and that is why assassins generally never have hard cc themselves but needs a team to do it <--- Important! Pyke is toxic not because of his utility, but because **he is a support**. Assassins are defined by "high risk high reward", and the one biggest risk of assassins is that they took up a major role, whether it is mid or jg, and if they don't get ahead it's basically a 4v5. Pyke therefore is toxic because even is he does get behind and is useless, which he'll never be but for the sake of argument, then you only lost the support role, the least important role in terms of needing to get ahead. And because he is the support he has a teammate right next to him, so that when Pyke does stun, the adc can do the damage, and Pyke can execute. I ultimately agree that Pyke's kit isn't as broken as some may think, but I feel that because he is played as a support, that he is toxic. If you're not convinced then let me clarify what I mean. If you shut down, or go even with a zed in mid lane (can be any assassin), then you are likely to win the game, assuming everything else stays constant. This might seem like the norm and that this is true for any other lane, but since assassins don't scale as well that feeling of "winning lane=winning game" is guaranteed. If a Draven wins bot lane, the enemy adc always can match Draven somewhat if the game goes on long enough (when everyone gets full build), which while unlikely is still a possibility) so that "winning lane=winning game" isn't guaranteed unlike for assassins. Pyke therefore feels toxic to his opponent because even if you manage to shut down Pyke, he is still very relevant and very much a threat. Pyke is much like Master Yi, both exceptions to the norm regarding assassins, and thus explains why both are hated so much. Master Yi doesn't have to get fed as he scales really well and has a lot of game impact, same with Pyke, both undermining the "high risk high reward" rule for assassins as there is little _**inherent**_ risk. Just my 100 cents... Make Pyke a jungler and balance his kit around that. Or have his ultimate execute only give gold to him, thus in turn adding a lot of depth to his kit. Adds high level decision making.
Rioter Comments
Kirika (EUW)
: Assassins should have a stun! But a single target one. Let me explain. I dont just play LoL but Dota aswell. In LoL playing against Assassins has a high frustration factor cause they burst you in like one sec and got too much escapes. In Dota its different. In Dota Assassins actually have ONE stun or something similar to lock down a SINGLE target. They got one gapcloser/Escape (they need to think which they choose, either close the gap OR get to safety.). That way an Assassin can easily kill a single ADC for example but as soon as there is someone else to protect the adc it needs a lot of feed or clever play for an Assassin to take both or even the desired target. This way playing against assassins is enjoyable because sometimes you can lock them down and save your carry + kill the atacker. Its satisfying.
What you say makes sense, but for 1) League of Legends is not DoTa. Not only is the player base different with different expectations, but Riot themselves have taken steps to differentiate themselves from Dota. One way being seen in their Assassin Rework in which they purposefully reworked assassins so that the opponent has a chance to retaliate and respond instead of being deleted with nothing to do about it. The most notable example I can think of is how they changed Katerina. This is why Qiyana is a problem for me. Her design is regressive in the worst aspect. She can delete opponents with little to no counter play due to the nature of stuns in general. Quicksilver sash isn't a viable option unless Qiyana's team has other forms of cc since it is so gold inefficient. On a tangent note, they should have an item similar to stopwatch for quicksilver sash. But Riot will never think of that either because they're incapable of being creative in terms of itemization, or because they just unfairly discriminate against bruisers.
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Rioter Comments
: Assassin comps are too strong in TFT
I would also like to note that this isn't an outlier as, I've noticed this team comp winning many games ever since I learned you could spectate other people on the bottom right of your screen :P
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Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=f3e5g4Qh4,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=J2uBxuOg,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-03T05:04:18.221+0000) > > In terms of gameplay it's innovative as it uses a feature of league that is normally unable to be interacted with, being dragon spawns. Like Akali used True Stealth, which was loved by the community! Strong bot/early ganks are good regardless of what type of dragon being spawned so idk why that point was brought up. Partially, a Rift Herald will always be more worth than a cloud drake. > Ultimately the dragon slayer buffs aren't as impactful towards the game as you think it is, maybe I'm wrong but you have to prove that dragon buffs are significantly impactful in the first place. Just look at mages, you can get around 500 AP with not building a lot of AP heavy Items in the mid game. That is with three Infernalas 120 AP for free. For nothing. That will be amplified even further by Rabadons, getting into 868 AP.
As for mages, well they aren't that good early game, so it would be harder to get the mid priority to secure those dragons...
: > [{quoted}](name=f3e5g4Qh4,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=J2uBxuOg,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-03T05:04:18.221+0000) > > In terms of gameplay it's innovative as it uses a feature of league that is normally unable to be interacted with, being dragon spawns. Like Akali used True Stealth, which was loved by the community! Strong bot/early ganks are good regardless of what type of dragon being spawned so idk why that point was brought up. Partially, a Rift Herald will always be more worth than a cloud drake. > Ultimately the dragon slayer buffs aren't as impactful towards the game as you think it is, maybe I'm wrong but you have to prove that dragon buffs are significantly impactful in the first place. Just look at mages, you can get around 500 AP with not building a lot of AP heavy Items in the mid game. That is with three Infernalas 120 AP for free. For nothing. That will be amplified even further by Rabadons, getting into 868 AP.
Akali's true stealth wasn't innovative, why would you claim it was? Stealth as a mechanic always had some interaction, with pink wards, red trinkets, and things that give true sight, and true stealth took away all of those interactions. That's not innovative at all, it's so backwards, how did you get to that conclusion that it was anything like Akali's shroud wth!? Taking dragons/objectives is usually done when you're already ahead in the game, it's the idea of snowballing your lead. Since Infernal gives percent increases it's better lategame, which goes against the idea of snowballing your lead as you want to end the game early. The only possibly toxic scenario I can see this create is having an early game team scale well into the late game due to the percentage buffs. But this again isn't that toxic since the early game team should have already won. This scenario only evens the playing field between early game team and late game teams when they're full items.
: In terms of gameplay it's innovative as it uses a feature of league that is normally unable to be interacted with, being dragon spawns. Strong bot/early ganks are good regardless of what type of dragon being spawned so idk why that point was brought up. Ultimately the dragon slayer buffs aren't as impactful towards the game as you think it is, maybe I'm wrong but you have to prove that dragon buffs are significantly impactful in the first place.
And if being able to spawn any type of dragon for no cost is too much than just add in some conditions, like needing 150 AD to be an Infernal Drake. Another idea is to have Shyvana become the type of the dragon that is first slain, then locking in that dragon spawn forever, so from the start it will still be a 25% chance for any dragon. Maybe Shyvana absorbs the essence of the dragon slain, explaining why it works. However that idea will make Shyvana significantly weaker if she doesn't get the first dragon. Maybe you prefer the more high risk/high reward?
: One problem I see is that the Ice Drake Shyvana skin might be obsolete. On the other hand, the base skin will be a notch above Spirit Guard Udyr or, in other words, it will look cool as fuck, but then Riot will have a hard time making other skins or, in other words, profit...
Additionally Shyvana is now unplayable for twisted treeline, so there's that...
: > [{quoted}](name=f3e5g4Qh4,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=J2uBxuOg,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-06-03T04:43:21.281+0000) > > 1. It makes sense thematically Maybe, but not from a gameplay perspective. Why does Lee Sin get blinded, why does Cassio R work on Galio and Malphite etc. etc. > 2. It doesn't hurt the game/match in any way since you still have to fight for the dragon Yes it does hurt the game, you literally get to decide which dragon spawn, just for picking a certain champion. Combine this with a strong bot/early ganks and you basically get your choice of drakes everytime. > 3. It doesn't look overloaded to me, in fact I think it's quite simple. Maybe you can show me what you think makes this overloaded/broken, and given you provide an argument with some evidence we can have a discussion. I don't want a discussion, lol. You don't even realise how even one mechanic you listed is stupid from a gameplay perspective and hurts the game. Why would I try to make my point clear, if you don't even understand it?
In terms of gameplay it's innovative as it uses a feature of league that is normally unable to be interacted with, being dragon spawns. Strong bot/early ganks are good regardless of what type of dragon being spawned so idk why that point was brought up. Ultimately the dragon slayer buffs aren't as impactful towards the game as you think it is, maybe I'm wrong but you have to prove that dragon buffs are significantly impactful in the first place.
: Yes you should work for Riot, you can make overloaded and broken Champions just like they can. How do you even justify stuff like this? > Due to the territorial nature of dragons, the only dragon that can spawn onto the rift is the dragon that Shyvana chooses to be, except for the elder dragon.
1. It makes sense thematically 2. It doesn't hurt the game/match in any way since you still have to fight for the dragon 3. It doesn't look overloaded to me, in fact I think it's quite simple. Maybe you can show me what you think makes this overloaded/broken, and given you provide an argument with some evidence we can have a discussion.
: RIOT should hire me for reworking Shyvana for them!
One problem I see is that the Ice Drake Shyvana skin might be obsolete. On the other hand, the base skin will be a notch above Spirit Guard Udyr or, in other words, it will look cool as fuck, but then Riot will have a hard time making other skins or, in other words, profit...
Rioter Comments
: It's true Diana was a problem, that's why Riot changed her even acknowledging that she was too tanky for what she could do. She's an exception. Champions that are full burst are in fact the bane of brusiers because while they may be tanky, not on the mr side of tankiness, so again I don't understand your point. If your arguing that bruisers are too tanky then why are some of the best top laners ranged? Jayce Quinn, definitely Quinn Kennen Vlad Remeber when you could take Vayne top? I almost forgot about Viktor These champs have consistently and historically have dominated top lane, and to me this only shows why being ranged is such a huge advantage, such that they have to suffer in other certain areas, like you mentioned, to compensate. Right now Bruisers are actually at the power level they need to be and should have always been, at least somewhat. Of course people like you, not trying to be mean, aren't used to bruisers being relevant, and thus when they're as strong as they should have been it can come off as a surprise. Now people have to treat bruisers as if they're actual threats than just a strong minion to farm.
Let me try again with that first point with Diana. She's still the exception since she's a unique ap burst diver. Her anomaly can be taken both ways, Riot did mention that she was somewhat "broken", not in an overpowered sort of way, and promptly reworked her. However you are right that some bruisers could beat the absolute **** out of Diana, but it would be unfair to consider her extremely high learning curve. Idk the stats, but I personally have seen more Karthus, Kennen, Singed, one tricks than Diana. I could go on but I don't know enough, I just know that she's an anomaly. Bruisers don't carry games. Champions that are fed can carry games, and if Bruisers get fed then they have an easier time carrying the game since they're simple in design, they have clear and straightforward ways of winning games. Bruisers aren't carry champions, why, because usually games are decided through catching or winning a teamfight, and they don't accel at either. In solo que it's a different story since everyone's at a different skill level, which is why many people play bruisers to climb since it's easier and more efficient to carry with them than actual carry champions, as long as they're considerably more skilled than their opponent and know how to snowball their lead. I could say more, but since the beginning of however long I knew League... Top - Bruisers/Tanks, or just Top laner Jungle - Junglers Mid - Mid laner (which usually acts as the AP carry since they're the only ones who do AP damage, typically) Bot - ADC, as in Attack Damage _**Carry**_ Bot - Support
: > [{quoted}](name=f3e5g4Qh4,realm=NA,application-id=GgNYATV4,discussion-id=IkEv9f1W,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-05-04T20:12:45.060+0000) > > If you look at the high elo, at least for bot lane, abusing your range is such a critical factor, so you should know this. If you're not abusing your range correctly then it's a fault that lies with you, not the bruisers game design. Then what can you say for champs like Diana? Who have 0 counterplay into any bruiser or any tank. There is not point in one shotting their adc if their bruiser top is the carry. Newer assassins dont have this problem but older assassins (not the class but the type that try to one shot) like Annie, Diana, etc. are completely useless against them.
It's true Diana was a problem, that's why Riot changed her even acknowledging that she was too tanky for what she could do. She's an exception. Champions that are full burst are in fact the bane of brusiers because while they may be tanky, not on the mr side of tankiness, so again I don't understand your point. If your arguing that bruisers are too tanky then why are some of the best top laners ranged? Jayce Quinn, definitely Quinn Kennen Vlad Remeber when you could take Vayne top? I almost forgot about Viktor These champs have consistently and historically have dominated top lane, and to me this only shows why being ranged is such a huge advantage, such that they have to suffer in other certain areas, like you mentioned, to compensate. Right now Bruisers are actually at the power level they need to be and should have always been, at least somewhat. Of course people like you, not trying to be mean, aren't used to bruisers being relevant, and thus when they're as strong as they should have been it can come off as a surprise. Now people have to treat bruisers as if they're actual threats than just a strong minion to farm.
: Well from a Yi main's perspective... You're complaining that champions made to kill 1v1, are good at killing 1v1? Not really sure what your point is, League is a team game, and champions that are catered towards team play will almost always do better competitively, since I'm assuming you're playing ranked. Aside from Yi, while bruisers are good at the 1v1, they have to deal with the 2v1, 3v1, from the opposing jg and/or mid. While adcs suffer similar fates, the key difference is that your own jungle and mid are MORE likely to help since the role of adc is far more valuable than whatever the role of the bruiser is. I agree that if you have a bad team, then yes it sucks, but when you have a team in general, you're more likely to win the game. If you take your point to it's logical conclusion, while bruisers are good at the 1v1, they have to go in melee since they're not ranged, which means that any form of coordination prevents the bruiser from doing what they're good at, the 1v1. Since they're not tanks it doesn't cost much to make the 5v5 a winning 5v4. I honestly don't know what you expect, a ranged champion is less tanky and deals less initial damage omg... but you're ranged. Advantages has it's costs, and being ranged means that if an enemy champion, built for melee, is able to get in melee range of you an beat you up, that's either your fault, or your team fault. Honest recommendation is to just build some tank if it's a real problem.
If you look at the high elo, at least for bot lane, abusing your range is such a critical factor, so you should know this. If you're not abusing your range correctly then it's a fault that lies with you, not the bruisers game design.
: This is why lately I've been just playing dumb champs like tryndamere, zed, master yi, garen, wukong instead of adcs and mages. I want to play adc but when you have to put so much effort and still die 1v1 because you arent meant to 1v1 just sucks. Example? If you fight a yi as almost any adc, usually what happens is he runs up to you, ults and right click with occasional q e. That takes very little effort in low elo especially because you know no one on the adc's side is gonna peel for him. Almost all players just ignore the adc and rush the backline in low elo. On adc perspective, people are gonna criticize that adc is easy you just right click but that's not true at all. Adc have to attack and move in between attacks. That requires a ton of effort and precision as attack move via pressing a+click is not reliable sometimes when there are minions or monsters in the way. Regardless, the adc has to click multiple times in a fight if they want to get the most out of their damage as opposed to some champions not needing to do those little micro movements at all and getting a whole lot more reward than the adc. I get it, everyone is gonna say i dont know how to adc cuz adc is about position, but guys in low elo adc is a liability. You are squishy and team doesnt peel for you so all the gold funneled into you is a waste because you just die and all the damage means not when you are grey screened. Also, a garen, yi, trynd, zed, wukong will outdamage an adc blow for blow with the same build as the adc. I'm not talking about dps or whatever, but if you go blow for blow the non adc will hit harder. Not only that but the adc will take basically extra damage since adcs are naturally low on health, resistance per level compared to bruisers. This is why when im a fed adc, i still have to be afraid of an 0/4 irelia because 1v1 she will still shit on you once she gets a few items and can burst you down with your low health. Again, low elo no one peels for you. But when I play a champ like tryndamere, yi, garen, wukong and you are just as fed as you would be as adc, you can do a lot more because you don't rely on anyone else for the 1v1. I was able to get pentakill as trynd but had I built the same items on an adc, i would easily just die and get maybe 1 or 2 kills in the same instance before eventually dying because not enough health or burst to eliminate threats. Again, I'm not really saying adcs are underpowered. They can be quite good in the right circumstances, just in low elo it sucks so bad.
Well from a Yi main's perspective... You're complaining that champions made to kill 1v1, are good at killing 1v1? Not really sure what your point is, League is a team game, and champions that are catered towards team play will almost always do better competitively, since I'm assuming you're playing ranked. Aside from Yi, while bruisers are good at the 1v1, they have to deal with the 2v1, 3v1, from the opposing jg and/or mid. While adcs suffer similar fates, the key difference is that your own jungle and mid are MORE likely to help since the role of adc is far more valuable than whatever the role of the bruiser is. I agree that if you have a bad team, then yes it sucks, but when you have a team in general, you're more likely to win the game. If you take your point to it's logical conclusion, while bruisers are good at the 1v1, they have to go in melee since they're not ranged, which means that any form of coordination prevents the bruiser from doing what they're good at, the 1v1. Since they're not tanks it doesn't cost much to make the 5v5 a winning 5v4. I honestly don't know what you expect, a ranged champion is less tanky and deals less initial damage omg... but you're ranged. Advantages has it's costs, and being ranged means that if an enemy champion, built for melee, is able to get in melee range of you an beat you up, that's either your fault, or your team fault. Honest recommendation is to just build some tank if it's a real problem.
: Why does Akali have a Stun?
When I wrote "too many counters" I meant, "counters too many others"
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f3e5g4Qh4

Level 77 (NA)
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