: Actually jiggernauts are fine both in terms of damage and tankiness rn.
> [{quoted}](name=Aatrox Airlines,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U5osgiN4,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-11T06:27:43.410+0000) > > Actually jiggernauts are fine both in terms of damage and tankiness rn. It's sustain that's the problem, i.e. supplement with conqueror.
: > [{quoted}](name=heroikc,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U5osgiN4,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-10T20:04:13.973+0000) > > I'm glad I'm not the only one to think this, but I'd rather nerf damage so that it allows tanks to do their job, but would be enough to mop mages and carries as intended. I would only ONLY like this change if it meant juggernauts can’t build ONE item and be a assasin to a adc. I agree with you that they die too easy. But it can go grossly and horrifically wrong in the way that a Garen can build yomuus and be a assasin with 3-4K health. Take damage away and give health but I would much rather get blown up in 4 seconds than have a “I cc lock you now, and now I pound you into submission” as your mental go boom from being both outclassed in damage and health by a juggernaut. Sorry but unless they change the damage on juggernaut items I would just rather not:(
> [{quoted}](name=inuitmailman,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U5osgiN4,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-11T00:44:29.257+0000) > > I would only ONLY like this change if it meant juggernauts can’t build ONE item and be a assasin to a adc. I agree with you that they die too easy. But it can go grossly and horrifically wrong in the way that a Garen can build yomuus and be a assasin with 3-4K health. Take damage away and give health but I would much rather get blown up in 4 seconds than have a “I cc lock you now, and now I pound you into submission” as your mental go boom from being both outclassed in damage and health by a juggernaut. Sorry but unless they change the damage on juggernaut items I would just rather not:( Hm, true, that has been a problem since the last ADC rework...Juggernaut's need to be slowed down in terms of DPS.
: The fact that kaisa can abuse all defensive items and still do so much damage is beyond me
Well, she can accept all sorts of stats, so it's not really her fault.
GigglesO (NA)
: Does nothing stop onhit builds?
Burst works better against on-hit builds, given they're sustain reliant. Kiting, abilities that counter/slow AA, and CC should help too. Honestly, though, I think they should tone down Conqueror and Guinsoo's.
: Can Nasus Jungle Work?
Not recommended given this meta is early pressure, late assassin, and not farming.
Mindzur (NA)
: The only reason tanks are doing fine in summoner's rift is because they're now assassins
: Wait are you fucking serious?
Realizing their damage is too obscene to keep ARURF?
: I'd prefer tanks/bruisers having more HP to literally everyone dying in sub-4 seconds in teamfights.
I'm glad I'm not the only one to think this, but I'd rather nerf damage so that it allows tanks to do their job, but would be enough to mop mages and carries as intended.
: Does riot not realize that their are consequences to their actions?
I think their too burnt to care. Not an excuse, but I'm considering retiring from League.
: > Yes, tanks are generally so underwhelming it's better to play as bruisers or top lane mages than a tank, given sustain is obscene for them. I guess my definition of "tank" is different from yours. For me, tank is a champion that builds primarily hp/resistances. I see tanks quite often in my games, and sometimes they are successful > the opposing Irelia died once and can not get a kill from now on. Excuse me? Irelia is an example of a champion that doesn't really care about her early performance. 0-3 Irelia will eventually get her core items and will shine in fights after that > Voli is designed that way As well as a lot of other tanky champions. > he's easily kiteable > getting that many brittle procs and surviving against a Conqueror user or range champ is impossible unless your opponent is a potato. Your point was "If I build full hp, I have no damage". I proved otherwise. > He's referring to the needs of a tank to absorb damage so carries won't have to suffer They can do this. If 4k hp 200 armor tank melts in 2 seconds, 2k hp 100 armor ADC would die in 0.5 seconds. Tank soaked that damage so that ADC has 2 more seconds to live. > with Conqueror, Guinsoo's, and hyper sustain, there's no point for tanks building tanks The point of building tanky is to survive for longer time(1-2 more seconds). Not to suddenly become immortal Also you can counter sustain with thornmail > would feel better than "I'm dead, so there's no point in trying to win" or "I can one-shot people, this is 2 ez." If everyone oneshots everyone else, the one who actually hits his oneshot combo wins. This requires some skill. The guy who can oneshot others can mess up and miss his combo and die instead. If you are immortal, there is no way to mess up, and no place for any skill expression
> [{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iZn9Xq9e,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-09-09T17:00:50.622+0000) > > I guess my definition of "tank" is different from yours. > For me, tank is a champion that builds primarily hp/resistances. > I see tanks quite often in my games, and sometimes they are successful > > Excuse me? Irelia is an example of a champion that doesn't really care about her early performance. 0-3 Irelia will eventually get her core items and will shine in fights after that > > As well as a lot of other tanky champions. > > Your point was "If I build full hp, I have no damage". I proved otherwise. > > They can do this. If 4k hp 200 armor tank melts in 2 seconds, 2k hp 100 armor ADC would die in 0.5 seconds. Tank soaked that damage so that ADC has 2 more seconds to live. > > The point of building tanky is to survive for longer time(1-2 more seconds). Not to suddenly become immortal > Also you can counter sustain with thornmail > > If everyone oneshots everyone else, the one who actually hits his oneshot combo wins. This requires some skill. The guy who can oneshot others can mess up and miss his combo and die instead. > If you are immortal, there is no way to mess up, and no place for any skill expression 1.) Tanks are a designated class, and you refer to it as a type of build. You are probably thinking of bruisers/juggernauts like {{champion:266}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:106}}, and not those like {{champion:516}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:32}}. 2.) Shut her down early and constantly, and she'll never get them before the urgot is itemized. 3.) No, he has abilities and a passive directly reliant on having a lot of health. Most other juggernauts aren't that integrated outside of shields and grasp of the undying (aside from mundo). 4.) Of course, the point is also, there's no point in being a real tank or building any resistances since most conqueror (ab)users do too much damage. 5.) After doing what? trying to waddle to his distracted teammates for support? That's about as significant as being cc'd for two hours. 6.) Yes, while launching more CC and lite damage. Also, rammus must have thought that too before I bought wits end or guinsoo's. And thornmail can only do so much before you die because the damage/sustain difference is too great between them. Translation: no point in thornmail. 7.) So you're saying sustained combat is no longer viable so we should just dump all thoughts on fighters and tanks and build strictly for burst play? Just how much of the game would be removed in that instant? All because you "skill-oriented" assassins don't want to deal with tanks absorbing/disrupting your burst? We should rely on a pure "I hope this works" scenario that requires obscene timing and precision and lottery levels of luck to pull off? News flash: Not everyone is capable of that, hence why there are the "immortals." Also, you know there are dedicated tank busters already, right? {{champion:266}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:83}} {{item:1416}} {{item:3153}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3035}} {{item:3091}} {{item:3124}} {{item:3071}} not to mention Conqueror. Many are hopelessly obscene in terms of power that fighting early game in lane or late game in teams is pointless, whereas others are invalidated by the fact that their intended targets are no longer prevalent. And don't get me started on those who can just KITE tanks anyway. Honestly, a good way to balance the game would be to reduce the assassin's ability to wave clear to that of requiring too much resources or reducing the damage they do to minions. Seriously, assassin's are too quick compared to mages.
: > tanks are unplayable No > you are getting oneshotted by someone with just a slight lead Because you are ignoring enemy strengths mechanics. "Oh, enemy Zed is ahead, I wonder what happens if I go in his W-R range being a squishy ADC?" Or the champion is just broken, like {{champion:517}} > You can't invest all your gold into defense, because otherwise you won't do damage. Meanwhile others cry about {{champion:106}} oneshotting people with full health builds. {{champion:516}} can deal 70%+ max hp damage(without counting flat damage, just his W+3x Brittle proc %hp) with his combo, no damage items required. > Staying alive longer in fights to soak damage is no longer a win condition It never was. In a fight, someone must die(or run away) for the other one to win. You either build damage and try to oneshot enemies before dying, or you build defense, so you have more time to kill but deal lesser damage > it ain't fun Playing the "I built my 1st def item, now I am immortal" would probably be even less fun for everyone
> [{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iZn9Xq9e,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-09T11:36:47.463+0000) > > No > > Because you are ignoring enemy strengths mechanics. "Oh, enemy Zed is ahead, I wonder what happens if I go in his W-R range being a squishy ADC?" Or the champion is just broken, like {{champion:517}} > > Meanwhile others cry about {{champion:106}} oneshotting people with full health builds. {{champion:516}} can deal 70%+ max hp damage(without counting flat damage, just his W+3x Brittle proc %hp) with his combo, no damage items required. > > It never was. In a fight, someone must die(or run away) for the other one to win. You either build damage and try to oneshot enemies before dying, or you build defense, so you have more time to kill but deal lesser damage > > Playing the "I built my 1st def item, now I am immortal" would probably be even less fun for everyone 1.) Yes, tanks are generally so underwhelming it's better to play as bruisers or top lane mages than a tank, given sustain is obscene for them. 2.) And the opponent is snowballing out of control and recovery is non-existent. Like, the opposing Irelia died once and can not get a kill from now on. 3.) Voli is designed that way...and he's getting a rework so who knows how long that is going to last. Plus, he's easily kiteable. As for Ornn, you know he is countered by EVERY TOP LANER IN LEAGUE. And getting that many brittle procs and surviving against a Conqueror user or range champ is impossible unless your opponent is a potato. 4.) He's referring to the needs of a tank to absorb damage so carries won't have to suffer. The ability for a tank to tangle the enemy team and enable teammates to eliminate them. But, with Conqueror, Guinsoo's, and hyper sustain, there's no point for tanks building tanks (they lack immediate burst and have near none sustain) 5.) would feel better than "I'm dead, so there's no point in trying to win" or "I can one-shot people, this is 2 ez."
: the problem is that there aren't enough champions with unique stats empowering their abilities. {{champion:201}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:44}} I'm not 100% sure, but I think these are all champions and the only champions that get bonuses to their abilities by purchasing defensive items. That is items that grant either armor or magic resist. the primary stats are Attack Damage or Ability Power. Hence why it's better to buy those instead of trying to buy other stats.
> [{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iZn9Xq9e,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-09T09:44:49.914+0000) > > the problem is that there aren't enough champions with unique stats empowering their abilities. > > {{champion:201}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:44}} > > I'm not 100% sure, but I think these are all champions and the only champions that get bonuses to their abilities by purchasing defensive items. That is items that grant either armor or magic resist. > > the primary stats are Attack Damage or Ability Power. Hence why it's better to buy those instead of trying to buy other stats. Garen and Poppy only gain armor and MR from his W passive. And the damage is too obscene to bother with resistances and hoping to survive.
: Annie Should NOT Get Mobility.
: Why is Nashor's Tooth still an item
{{champion:268}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:518}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:4}} {{champion:142}}
: Morde Runes
I go Conqueror, Triumph, Alacrity, and Cut down, with the healing runes in Domination, or Shield Bash and Revitalize/Overgrowth in Resolve.
5050BS (NA)
: Hey Riot why can Yasuo Ult when he is Rooted?
Because it is a blink-like ability that transcends reasons?
MavisxQt (NA)
: Tham kench and %hp dmg
{{champion:78}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:32}} In short, percent health is a mere means for tanks to do notable damage without having to worry about building anything outside of tank items/runes. Tahm is just among the worst, mostly because of his Munch-Munch Fruit mechanic.
: Nerf smite
Even though you need to grab a 1000 gold item to allow smite to give additional effect and make chasing/dueling easier for junglers?
Nekorus (NA)
: u only get the chroma but not the skin.
> [{quoted}](name=Nekorus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y7E1ZcEo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-01T00:13:58.691+0000) > > u only get the chroma but not the skin. Darn, thought it would be a hack...but then again, this is far from the first of such events, so it was to be expected, I guess. Thanks for clarifying though.
Rioter Comments
yıff (NA)
: yasuo is seriously in need of a buff
He only sucks because people are focusing on other champs and only newborn hams are trying him. Conqueror is still in this and he's still broken.
: LMAO Teemo blinds him for like 2 seconds and even if Trynd gets low he press R and then kill him in 2 autos. Nice.......
> [{quoted}](name=DooDooIsBack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=72ejXOMM,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2019-08-07T03:00:03.194+0000) > > LMAO Teemo blinds him for like 2 seconds and even if Trynd gets low he press R and then kill him in 2 autos. Nice....... Sure, not like kiting is a thing...or mushrooms.
farly785 (EUW)
: if you get busted by an assassin as a tank youre doing something wrong, theres much much more armor in the game than mr and you can easily buy a frozen heart to just get (even at lvl 1 if you could buy it so fast) 60% dmg reduction
> [{quoted}](name=farly785,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q5W2Jgb0,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-08-06T20:42:49.851+0000) > > if you get busted by an assassin as a tank youre doing something wrong, theres much much more armor in the game than mr and you can easily buy a frozen heart to just get (even at lvl 1 if you could buy it so fast) 60% dmg reduction True, but tell that to {{champion:11}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:141}} who either have built in tankbusting, or benefit from the slew of tankbusting items and runes out there (i.e. Conqueror.) Also, Frozen Heart? Who builds that? It's only armor and an AA slow, which does not help against the slew of true damage out there already.
norMNfan (NA)
: Reworked Swain has huge mana issues
I never had any mana issues as Swain.
vrasidaros (EUNE)
: Is it wrong to play Illaoi with grasp instead of clepto?
I'd rather see Illaoi nerfed. But seriously, how could you mess Klepto up? Use a spell, then whack the champ. It procs like grasp.
: Rumble
Check his passive; it self silences if he spams too much.
: Is Swain support still viable?
Non-support here, but I'd say more so now, given the new sustain in mana with passive.
: Rapidfire Cannon
Titanic should not work on ranged characters.
: What do you think of katarina?
Redundant ult feature with {{item:3165}}
: Why does Kindred do so much fucking damage?
They're a jungle marksman, they're sort of supposed to do that. You should try to control/protect those with marks to slow her down.
: > [{quoted}](name=heroikc,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=BnzTv0Ev,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-14T16:39:39.888+0000) > > Isn't that like WoW? I mean sorta i guess. But i was a fully custimizable character. Not dedicated classes.
> [{quoted}](name=Katness,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=BnzTv0Ev,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-14T20:07:20.610+0000) > > I mean sorta i guess. But i was a fully custimizable character. Not dedicated classes. Now it's like Shadowrun.
Kharisma (NA)
: How Do You Beat Shyvana?
Ganks; get your lanes snowballing faster than Shyv can, and don't cluster up. Ult and buffed abilities excel against massed targets. Force her to focus on one of you at a time and focus fire her. Also, control dragons. Alot; she gains resistances for each drag killed. It's small, but each one denied makes her comparatively weaker as the game goes on.
: I want a mmo where i can explore Runeterra and the void. I also want to be able to create a champion where i can mix and match abilitys depending on who i train under and the nation i am in.
> [{quoted}](name=Katness,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=BnzTv0Ev,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-14T02:35:54.802+0000) > > I want a mmo where i can explore Runeterra and the void. I also want to be able to create a champion where i can mix and match abilitys depending on who i train under and the nation i am in. Isn't that like WoW?
: New developers.
> [{quoted}](name=Beerstein,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=BnzTv0Ev,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-14T02:37:24.381+0000) > > New developers. If that's the only way we can expect new stuff like multiple maps, that works.
HeartVine (OCE)
: Balance. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
> [{quoted}](name=HeartVine,realm=OCE,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=BnzTv0Ev,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-14T04:35:17.062+0000) > > Balance. > > {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} Let's keep to the subtle things and not the obvious stuff for now... {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}}
Rioter Comments
NY64 (NA)
: Which jungle meta is better?
Gahg, what an awful scenario; neither truly feels satisfying but each has valued traits when playing jungle, shutdown early or recover quickly... Shows how bad League has become.
: So what's going on with Wukong? (State of his "rework")
Probably in the same limbo as Teemo's.
: what if waterwalking rune interacted with nami wave?
There might be a sudden surge of water-element champs...
: What are the 10 hardest skillshots to land?
{{champion:79}} R {{champion:122}} Q {{champion:1}} W {{champion:102}} Dragon W
Nhika (NA)
: Tank jungle starter item?
I think we need a third smite item again, to go with {{item:3706}} {{item:3715}}, like {{item:4101}} or some other variant.
Nhika (NA)
: Black Cleaver, Ninja Tabi, Deaths Dance - pretty hard to kill.
{{item:3047}} already nerfed because of being abused by marksman. {{item:3071}} kind of makes it less useful than {{item:3078}}, {{item:3025}}, etc. {{item:3812}} going to have to change the recipe, since the 10% cdr comes from {{item:3133}}.
: Why don't people test their internet connection before they enter a Ranked game?
Partly because sometimes the connection can be fickle and can go out with no reason or warning.
: May I simply point out that aside from illaoi, these guys allcuse conqueror
> [{quoted}](name=Cind3rkick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaUo8Afr,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-13T11:55:00.410+0000) > > May I simply point out that aside from illaoi, these guys allcuse conqueror Three of them are potent without it...not counting Illaoi.
: STOP THIS FUCKING TANK META
I WISH tanks were that wanted, but there's too much damage to bother with solo-queuing as a tank.
: >Ornn top + Sion mid + Rammus jungle, So just kill their adc and they cant do anything. You have a Jhin top which is plenty of damage. This is basicslly the anti-tank meta where top is dominated by conqueror abusers
> [{quoted}](name=Cind3rkick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaUo8Afr,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-12T23:08:57.599+0000) > > So just kill their adc and they cant do anything. > > You have a Jhin top which is plenty of damage. > > > This is basicslly the anti-tank meta where top is dominated by conqueror abusers And other tank busters like {{champion:420}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:157}}
coreym11 (NA)
: Why is Yasuo such a perfect champion?
I remember the days when I crush Yasuo's with Veigar and Poppy.
: If Yuumi may start with a point in her W, why doesn't Azir?
Moody P (NA)
: Buff tank items
I think giving them more significance effects would be more effective than making tanks into impromptu statchecks.
: 'Demolish' rune should be removed
LOL, I never had such urges with demolish XD
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heroikc

Level 140 (NA)
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