: I'm under level 15 - doing quests again
Added. Let's do some quests!
: If Cho gets to a carry he might as well be rewarded with a kill, he is BY FAR the easiest champion to kite, I mean he takes half the fucking lane lol
>Flashes >Righteous glory >Knock up and slow in his kit >Huge amount of health and shielding with locket If he really wants to get somewhere, he will.
: Can't share internal data unfortunately. I know that sucks. If you look at champion.gg's "win rate % by games played" widget, that will give you something closer to the numbers we're balancing Singed off of. Plat+ only though.
Totally understand. Thank you!
: Thanks for taking the time to write this up. I know you’re super passionate about Singed and I appreciate the thoughtful post. Why Buff Singed You’re right in that the majority of people playing Singed are Singed mains. This has been true for nearly all of LoL’s life. Even when he’s been very strong, he’s not a champion that appeals to many, whether due to playstyle or persona (almost certainly both). His mastery path is rather obtuse and skews heavily towards strategy rather than tactics. So we’re left with a bunch of Singed mains with hundreds of games played on Singed only. As with many similar champions, this leads to a low average win rate and high experienced player win rate. This is true of every champion to some degree, but Singed sits on the extreme end of things. Then who do we balance for? Do we balance for the first time player or the 1000th time player? Well, there’s no clean answer unfortunately and it usually gets taken on a case by case basis. For Singed, it’s the experienced player case (Side note, champion.gg data is average win rate). Reason being, as mentioned above, even when Singed is statistically OP he doesn’t draw players. Wouldn’t that make him a good candidate for a visual/gameplay update? Perhaps, but that’s the Champ-Update team and I can’t speak confidently to their prioritization. Sorry for lack of clarity there. I’ll try and grab someone today and see if they can respond here. Singed History I wasn’t on the balance team at the time, but I pushed back quite hard on the removal of tenacity from R. I would have liked to see defensive stats removed instead. My reasoning was that I never want to stop running as Singed. If I need to die, fine, but let me die running. Felt like we were removing more fun than power. That said, I also understand why we removed it. Singed being able to “freely” access the backline was not meant for his power profile. That was the riddle for Singed players to solve, not the inverse where backline has to figure out how to avoid him. Matchups For lane matchups, I agree with most of your assessments. Singed doesn’t have many winning ones and some of his previous ones have been removed. He used to be able to bypass this with proxy farming, but that isn’t as viable as it used to be (for good reason). 3x Dark Seal in laning phase was fun initially because it felt like gaming the system, but now it’s more like you’re forced to just to survive. Singed has a decent level 2 all-in with Ignite, but for the most part his early game is weak. This isn’t bad if it’s made up for elsewhere. We’ll get into that. Midgame Disagree with your midgame assessment. Assuming you aren’t woefully behind, Singed’s midgame is quite powerful. Lategame I think what you’re objecting to is Singed’s current best/most reliable build being driven by deficits. Singed is forced to buy items that shore up his weaknesses rather than enhance his strengths. Rylai’s + Liandry’s (RoA) are natural fits for Singed, but suboptimal due to current state of LoL. This ends up feeling lame as most people weren’t drawn to Singed to be a pick champ. Exacerbated by the fact that Singed doesn’t have a clean classification in LoL. We can’t say he’s failing/succeeding at X because we don’t have a well defined X. He, like Blitzcrank for example, falls into a special category of “they’re weird.” If Singed’s best build were TF > Gunblade, would he be failing? Either way, if you have to build tank to function then you should be tuned accordingly. Tl;dr - I agree that even though Singed’s win rate may be fine, his current best build option isn’t compelling. It’s not why most Singed players want to play Singed Champions “Difficult to learn” doesn’t mean “has a strong late game.” You can have an early game power house with a steep learning curve. That said, because his current early game is so weak he should probably scale better late. Elo I’ve said it before, but Singed’s win rate at all ELOs is healthy. Again, we balance Singed with experienced players in mind. You’re right that his win rate at lower rankings is better, but even at the highest MMR he is over 50%. Items Discussed this in Lategame section. For his passive, we agree. When Singed receives a significant update, this is likely the first place we look. Disruptor Problems I disagree about Singed damage output being too low when building AP. That said, it harkens back to the problem of Singed having to build tank. Adaptive Helm helps Singed too and the number of champions that get to rush this against him is relatively low. Don’t think this is a problem. On that note, early internal data shows Singed’s win rate going up on patch 7.9. Split Pushing Assuming you’re talking about a tank build, so yes. Singed doesn’t get to build Sunfire or Titanic like many other tanks and he scales based on the assumption that he’ll have an AP item or two. Even so, his clear speed is reasonable. Abilities Good suggestions here. Agree that some small scope stuff could go a long way. The problem is that with many of these seemingly easy suggestions, they can’t just be done in a vacuum. We can’t responsible just buff Singed. All of these suggestions are zero-sum, requiring taking power from other parts of the kit, validation, etc. When you look at the value proposition of working on “on fire” champions vs. someone doing relatively well, it’s a tough sell. However, the satisfaction angle is pretty compelling to me... Anyway, again I really appreciate you taking the time to write this. I wish I could say, “Awesome! We’ll make Singed our top priority and fix all these problems next patch!” I can’t do that. What I can do though, is make sure this sentiment is understood on both Live Gameplay (the balance team) and Champion-Update. Hopefully, we can get some work slated soon.
Hey man, thanks for taking your time to write a response! I'm personally really surprised that singed's highest ELO winrate is over 50%, with mains like MinishCap who stopped playing. If you don't mind, could we have the % win-rate for last patch for Masters and challengers? Thanks!
Rioter Comments
: If you want to get better odds are playing ranked with people of your own skill in a competitive environment is the best way. Playing with people two tiers head of you will probably just result in you getting smashed over and over. And in your last 5 games there was 10 unranked, 3 bronze, 10 silver and 2 gold players. So you aren't actually being matched with plat players, at least not on a regular basis.
> [{quoted}](name=I AM SO KAWAII,realm=NA,application-id=K6EGEal2,discussion-id=7AWLMTiX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-12T22:38:49.343+0000) > > And in your last 5 games there was 10 unranked, 3 bronze, 10 silver and 2 gold players. So you aren't actually being matched with plat players, at least not on a regular basis. Hmm. That's interesting. Whenever I go into the game, I go in with people who have gold and plat borders. Just assumed that meant I was playing with players who were around plat level. Also, how did you so quickly find out all that information?
Rioter Comments

hi ace50

Level 71 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion