Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=L Psy Kongroo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RMW7qx8Y,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-12-08T15:08:40.138+0000) > > It's mainly their itemization. Tank items are low gold efficiency, low impact items that get out-performed by bruiser/juggernaut items like Triforce, Titanic Hydra, Deadman's Plate, etc. On top of that they have way too many similarities with bruisers and juggernauts while simultaneously being weaker versions of them, except in a few special cases like Ornn. There's no reason to play a full tank over a juggernaut like Sion or Olaf. They do the exact same things I listed while just being better at them overall. You could even build someone like Gragas with RoA and Aftershock into tank items and do better than an actual tank would with a tank build. On top of all that, they're extremely weak in lane and get bullied by practically everyone. They can't fight back because they don't have the damage or the durability that bruisers do early on, so they need to sit back and scale, but by the time that happens the game is usually over and they never get a chance to have an impact. _"Tanks do all the heavy lifting to make the game easier for the rest of the team. They absorb damage so the carries don't have to, they create opportunities by starting fights and making picks, they provide CC for either peel or lockdown, and they generate passive threat by their very presence."_ _"Having a tank on the team just gives you so many more options than you'd have without one"_ Is this whole thread just a joke?? I'm asking for real. You seem so desperate to prove that "Tanks are Bad" while opening the post with a literal description about how the class is actually quite good, and how they have a massive positive impact to any team they're a part of. What do you even want for them to be "good"? To deal 90,000K damage from base stats and ambient damage from a couple items? So you just want 4KHP walls dealing as much damage as damage-based classes (that can only afford to buy damage items) while building all low-cost Tank items with Sunfire and maybe a Thornmail? Because that is one of the most toxic and horrible ways there is to make a Tank. http://sendvid.com/4hbetfvv Oh no, look at poor Ornn not dying to five people. It's almost like he's buying time for his damage dealers to arrive and win the fight. Rammus also survived btw. Such a weak bad class I guess... It wouldn't be as insane if you literally didn't open with a paragraph telling everyone why Tanks are actually really good in the current meta. https://imgur.com/MukQgA9.png[] Zoe was dealing a lot of damage, but it was all being soaked by the enemy Tanks while Noct and Jhin played their part and dealt the damage for the team. People need to stop believing "Tanks are bad" just because they can't 1v5 Pentakill the enemy team by standing around them with a Tabis and a Thornmail. If you get caught and died, that's your fault, not the class being bad. Learn what your class is good at and learn to execute on it. **If your damage dealers are trash and can't take advantage of the opportunities they create, that just means you have bad damage dealers**, and it's an entirely different discussion. I'm out, my head hurts. Happy Holidays! {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
> [{quoted}](name=Yordletana,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RMW7qx8Y,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-12-08T21:13:11.452+0000) > > _"Tanks do all the heavy lifting to make the game easier for the rest of the team. They absorb damage so the carries don't have to, they create opportunities by starting fights and making picks, they provide CC for either peel or lockdown, and they generate passive threat by their very presence."_ > > _"Having a tank on the team just gives you so many more options than you'd have without one"_ > > Is this whole thread just a joke?? I'm asking for real. You seem so desperate to prove that "Tanks are Bad" while opening the post with a literal description about how the class is actually quite good, and how they have a massive positive impact to any team they're a part of. > > What do you even want for them to be "good"? To deal 90,000K damage from base stats and ambient damage from a couple items? So you just want 4KHP walls dealing as much damage as damage-based classes (that can only afford to buy damage items) while building all low-cost Tank items with Sunfire and maybe a Thornmail? Because that is one of the most toxic and horrible ways there is to make a Tank. > > http://sendvid.com/4hbetfvv > > Oh no, look at poor Ornn not dying to five people. It's almost like he's buying time for his damage dealers to arrive and win the fight. Rammus also survived btw. Such a weak bad class I guess... > > It wouldn't be as insane if you literally didn't open with a paragraph telling everyone why Tanks are actually really good in the current meta. > > https://imgur.com/MukQgA9.png[] > > Zoe was dealing a lot of damage, but it was all being soaked by the enemy Tanks while Noct and Jhin played their part and dealt the damage for the team. People need to stop believing "Tanks are bad" just because they can't 1v5 Pentakill the enemy team by standing around them with a Tabis and a Thornmail. If you get caught and died, that's your fault, not the class being bad. Learn what your class is good at and learn to execute on it. **If your damage dealers are trash and can't take advantage of the opportunities they create, that just means you have bad damage dealers**, and it's an entirely different discussion. > > I'm out, my head hurts. Happy Holidays! > {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}} you seem to ignore that ornn also gets a 10% increase to his bonus resistances has an insane amount of cc and damage built into his kit alone and has the ability to trade into champs with his what 15% max health damage built into his kit? he is one of the few if not only tank that is viable and can actually lane also he can initiate fights from a distance using his ult who else has all that as a tank?
: > [{quoted}](name=hiyares,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RMW7qx8Y,comment-id=000000000000000500010000,timestamp=2019-12-08T23:53:40.758+0000) > > atrox early game is the problem tanks take a while to sale into being an actual tank while atrox just has to exist to prod crazy amounts of early game damage with bis built in sustain that most tanks do not have. so again early game tanks are pretty bad to play into almost anything just because of how the lane is getting frozen out in a top lane is murder for a tank and will happen a lot without jungle help meaning you fall behind lvls and gold and nothing you can do about it without dying. Aatrox early is his weakest point though? And what built in sustain? Sure his passive activates sometimes and gives him like 8-12% max HP bonus damage and heals him for 100% of that but on minions that´s down to 25% you know? 100 on a basic hit with a couple of longswords and the minion has like.....600 HP at that point resulting in a heal of 38 health.........every 25 seconds or something. And what crazy amounts of early damage? He literally deals the least damage out of any stage in the early game compounded with the fact that he has to land those critical zones to actually do any notable damage, dodge those perhaps? Even assuming that he does land a few here or there a {{item:1054}} or {{item:2033}} should be way more than enough to let a tank comfortably farm up to their first recall if they play well no matter what he does. And what tanks suck when the lane gets frozen? Man that goes for any toplaner when their opponent is stronger 1v1, i recently played Irelia and my opponent picked Fiora, she got a gank early and managed to setup a freeze since i could not fight her anymore and i fell behind like 30 CS in the first few waves or something. Having your opponent be stronger and freeze the wave sucks for everyone equally so dont try to sell me some sob story about tanks having it worse.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RMW7qx8Y,comment-id=0000000000000005000100000000,timestamp=2019-12-09T10:04:14.471+0000) > > Aatrox early is his weakest point though? And what built in sustain? > > Sure his passive activates sometimes and gives him like 8-12% max HP bonus damage and heals him for 100% of that but on minions that´s down to 25% you know? > > 100 on a basic hit with a couple of longswords and the minion has like.....600 HP at that point resulting in a heal of 38 health.........every 25 seconds or something. > > And what crazy amounts of early damage? He literally deals the least damage out of any stage in the early game compounded with the fact that he has to land those critical zones to actually do any notable damage, dodge those perhaps? > > Even assuming that he does land a few here or there a {{item:1054}} or {{item:2033}} should be way more than enough to let a tank comfortably farm up to their first recall if they play well no matter what he does. > > And what tanks suck when the lane gets frozen? > > Man that goes for any toplaner when their opponent is stronger 1v1, i recently played Irelia and my opponent picked Fiora, she got a gank early and managed to setup a freeze since i could not fight her anymore and i fell behind like 30 CS in the first few waves or something. > > Having your opponent be stronger and freeze the wave sucks for everyone equally so dont try to sell me some sob story about tanks having it worse. you are legit a sivir one trick at g2 who doesn't play any tanks or looks to play much if anything. take a tank into the top lane try it the bug difference is going to be you need to know how your champ works to even survivr the lane atrox has 3 chances to do damage to you at lvl 1 most tanks dont have anyway to counter that giving him the ability to rush 2 and push it further giving him the lvl advantage and control of the lane early again i say most tanks. and he is not the only problem to tanks in the lane {{champion:84}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:8}} all of these champs are played in the top lane and completely shut down most tanks ability to even leave the lane tanks cant do much in the 1v1s in most situations so these champs would litteraly just run away with the game by shoving nonstop and just outputting an insane amount of damage or just flat out killing you. right now the game is reliant on strong lanes to give the jungler the ability to take what he wants when he wants be it rift or dragon the early game atm is what dictates the game. In the early game where most tanks are squishy and only provide 1 or 2 cc skills on a what 10-15 second cd give or take or like in the case of malphite his ultimate. play a few tanks top lane try it i swear you will not have fun.
Mimr (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=hiyares,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RMW7qx8Y,comment-id=0000000000000005,timestamp=2019-12-08T21:33:00.906+0000) > > the problem with tanks is that they are either played in support of they dont get to play the game for about 25 minutes. in top lane it is eve nworse when you have {{champion:82}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:420}} atroxx doesnt need old conq when he has so much damage laced in his q with black cleaver and early game dominance tanks in general do not have a great laning phase into a few of these things and darius is a hard counter to nearly all tanks. it is honestly just not fun or worth playing tanks into the current picks especially when the jungler is not going to help you. I know this because in most situations your jungler will refuse to gank your lane or help you reset a frozen lane Depends on which tank. Recently I've been seeing {{champion:98}} do excellently in top lane (shits on any auto attacker) and I've never seen Sion in a bad spot in toplane either. Recently Malphite has also made a resurgence (also shits on any auto attacker), as well as Ornn. Most tanks that can duel earlygame can do great in toplane right now.
> [{quoted}](name=Mimr,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RMW7qx8Y,comment-id=00000000000000050000,timestamp=2019-12-08T23:12:22.900+0000) > > Depends on which tank. Recently I've been seeing {{champion:98}} do excellently in top lane (shits on any auto attacker) and I've never seen Sion in a bad spot in toplane either. Recently Malphite has also made a resurgence (also shits on any auto attacker), as well as Ornn. Most tanks that can duel earlygame can do great in toplane right now. {{champion:98}} is more of a buriser at this point with how his kit works his q in the early game gives him huge control of the first 11 levels into where he cant really deal with specific champs where he falls off. {{champion:516}} with conqueror change the champs that would keep him out of play cant do it as reliably anymore plus he gets huge boosts on stats and has huge pressure in lane and team fights from range. {{champion:54}} has always been decent in team fights but again the champs i have put up top destroy him if they get just a little lead in the early game and he is good because of his ability to just force fights with his aoe cc which is decent damage. again in lane it just feels shitty t play a tank you will not get help you will be left looking for farm and you are reliant on everyone else to do the damage forgot to mention the aps and ranged tops that shit on everyone melee which includes tanks.
: > [{quoted}](name=hiyares,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RMW7qx8Y,comment-id=0000000000000005,timestamp=2019-12-08T21:33:00.906+0000) > > the problem with tanks is that they are either played in support of they dont get to play the game for about 25 minutes. in top lane it is eve nworse when you have {{champion:82}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:420}} atroxx doesnt need old conq when he has so much damage laced in his q with black cleaver and early game dominance tanks in general do not have a great laning phase into a few of these things and darius is a hard counter to nearly all tanks. it is honestly just not fun or worth playing tanks into the current picks especially when the jungler is not going to help you. I know this because in most situations your jungler will refuse to gank your lane or help you reset a frozen lane Doesnt Aatrox have some of his worse winrates against tanks in general?And while Darius claps just about everything that doesnt kill him fast enough in lane he does lose out in teamfight against a tank who locks him down.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RMW7qx8Y,comment-id=00000000000000050001,timestamp=2019-12-08T23:24:55.413+0000) > > Doesnt Aatrox have some of his worse winrates against tanks in general?And while Darius claps just about everything that doesnt kill him fast enough in lane he does lose out in teamfight against a tank who locks him down. atrox early game is the problem tanks take a while to sale into being an actual tank while atrox just has to exist to prod crazy amounts of early game damage with bis built in sustain that most tanks do not have. so again early game tanks are pretty bad to play into almost anything just because of how the lane is getting frozen out in a top lane is murder for a tank and will happen a lot without jungle help meaning you fall behind lvls and gold and nothing you can do about it without dying.
: > [{quoted}](name=Jimmy Rustles,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RMW7qx8Y,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-07T22:14:51.360+0000) > > Nope, still very much the same damage meta If we look at high elo then tanks aside from Ornn all sits at lowish pickrates 2-3% but like Ornn they all tend to have 52 to 55% winrate on average......in my eyes it looks like this is a pretty good time to main a tank? Although i will keep inting on Irelia until i figure out how to not do that.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RMW7qx8Y,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-07T22:21:41.733+0000) > > If we look at high elo then tanks aside from Ornn all sits at lowish pickrates 2-3% but like Ornn they all tend to have 52 to 55% winrate on average......in my eyes it looks like this is a pretty good time to main a tank? > > Although i will keep inting on Irelia until i figure out how to not do that. the problem with tanks is that they are either played in support of they dont get to play the game for about 25 minutes. in top lane it is eve nworse when you have {{champion:82}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:420}} atroxx doesnt need old conq when he has so much damage laced in his q with black cleaver and early game dominance tanks in general do not have a great laning phase into a few of these things and darius is a hard counter to nearly all tanks. it is honestly just not fun or worth playing tanks into the current picks especially when the jungler is not going to help you. I know this because in most situations your jungler will refuse to gank your lane or help you reset a frozen lane
Rioter Comments
: hashinshin: mages are most broken class and require no skill to play
to be fair i myself think that mages have a waayyyyy more flexible variety of items over any other class as well as runes to add to their damage lower cds etc etc and mages also tend to be the ones who absolutely abuse the problem runes as they come up. do they require skill yes i think they do but i still think they have too much of an advantage item wise and ratio and base damage wise over most other champs in the game i mean syndra can just press r and pop 90% of their health. (yes slightly exaggerated but you get my point)
: Your plat? and still cant win against morde? im not even 30 and im not having a hard tiem against him
> [{quoted}](name=RhastaFhasta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0Y5I9vFt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-30T08:19:17.319+0000) > > Your plat? and still cant win against morde? > im not even 30 and im not having a hard tiem against him the sad truth is he is a very easy to play but hard to play into champ it takes 1 mistake literally 1 misstep or minion block and he will kill you and according to op.gg he is currently at 52.48% win rate with a 10.75% pick rate he is the third highest win rate top laner to be honest his kit is too easy for the amount he can do in terms of being an oppressive laner
TaienV (NA)
: ARAM is and will be garbage until you balance it.
i mean all they have to do is revert all the buffs n nerfs and then make it so all champs are free for aram only and boom done. but they wont even though honestly that would be a good way to also give players a way to try champs ad invest into skins if they so choose to but then you have to actually own the champ before getting it or something
: How to Climb : Make Less Mistakes
i get what you are saying but honestly its more than just fixing mistakes its also understanding why you do something. like a major little tip for any one is if you stand beside your minion wave instead of behind it it makes it so you force enemies to choose how to use their spells as in do i use resources to farm or do i go in for harass. - learn your power spikes and use it to your advantage early to take control of lane - learn how and why you want to be aggressive (if the jungler is going to invade make sure you back them up by shoving out your lane) (if you have no vision of the jungler play assuming he might be nearby) - better warding -spam specific champs--- this has to do with just learning the ins and outs of a specific champ while also getting the experience of laning into various match ups when taking up other champs try to keep your pool all in a similar play style so you dont have to make massive adjustments like playing lulu mid one game then out of o where going to talon. Itemization- every game is different every game may need a slightly different build and gold income can vary learn how to use what gold you get as efficient as possible
: Is baron good anymore
if elder or 4th drag are up baron doesn't matter just because of how huge of a power spike dragons can be and included with elder the enemy team has to fight thinking about having only 20% of their total hp to work with. but in any other case if its just a normal dragon i would gladly give up dragon for a baron and use it for map pressure and towers.
GREYW0LF (NA)
: Completely un-Balanced Flex Matchup
the big problem with flex is that it doesnt take your actual elo into account flex que has its own elo so yeh the games are relatively bad at times not gonna lie
Rioter Comments
: How people get pleasure from Playing with/against Akali ? Where is the interaction with her?
honestly akali is pretty easy to lane against in most situations unless you are going with another melee but even in that situation she is easy to read how she wants to play just by paying attention to her shroud. in terms of the while omg she can one shot me it tends to be only on the adc because the actual way she is reliant on trading is something like q auto q auto w q auto run e q auto w q auto run it is pretty easy to bait her out on her q she will try to use it while csing so if you just sit next to your wave instead of behind it she has to make a choice on where she uses her q and you also need to understand the general range of it so you could walk in and back off just as she tries to land it. when she hits lvl 6 is where she actually has kill potential over you but realistically if she isnt running electrocute its gonna take her a while to get you into a comfortable range in order to do so if you are smart about keeping a good distance on her ability to use q. NUMBER 1 TIP!!!!! if she drops shroud dont fucking stand on it like she isnt gonna beat the shit out of you. you cant trade with someone you cant reliably hit so just walk away it goes on cd you have about 20 seconds of free time to set up a wave or harass her with out her ability to kill you even with ult. tip number 2 - if you are gonna play a passive lane focus on something that can push from a distance and hard punishes roaming akali doesnt have the ability to quickly push without using a lot of energy with her cds. If she is not in the lane ping it o matter what and proceed to hard push and punish for the roam.
5050BS (NA)
: If they buffed her Plant life then she would be played Mid more and less Support. She is ONLY support because she cant be played anywhere else. I missed her being able to play her Jungle. Really wish Riot would rework her as a Mid/Jungler Role champ. She is the Queen of the "Wilds" and yet never steps foot into the Jungle and is no stronger in the Jungle where she should be.
> [{quoted}](name=5050BS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aKBJicFa,comment-id=000b0001,timestamp=2019-11-28T21:40:51.373+0000) > > If they buffed her Plant life then she would be played Mid more and less Support. > > She is ONLY support because she cant be played anywhere else. > > I missed her being able to play her Jungle. > > Really wish Riot would rework her as a Mid/Jungler Role champ. > > She is the Queen of the "Wilds" and yet never steps foot into the Jungle and is no stronger in the Jungle where she should be. she support because of the amont of damage she can put out with low amounts of ap along with her ability to c lock entire teams on her own
: PBE should be a privilege not toxic waste dump
well to be fair people sell the pbe accounts so all those high level players given ribbons by riot are not all there.
: > [{quoted}](name=hiyares,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RtYc0YKz,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-28T18:07:42.531+0000) > > {{champion:74}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:69}} conqueror should not be allowed to work on mages at all. conq is supposed to be this bruiser rune for 1v1 which okay its doing a little too well at that too but why the fuck do these spam mages have the ability to even get any stacks on it. I want to see the post from Riot explaining that Conqueror is for bruisers only. I think this is always assumed but never quantified.
> [{quoted}](name=NaughtyWord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RtYc0YKz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-28T18:18:48.796+0000) > > I want to see the post from Riot explaining that Conqueror is for bruisers only. I think this is always assumed but never quantified. i mean when you think a mage you think this bursty control an area or insta kill kinda character right? they got rid of spell vamp becasue it made no sense for mages so why would they give them sustain? tanks can use it but not much of a reason to supports but same thing the probem is that mages can instantly proc it faster than melees which is where its like wtf. nd honestly there is too much sustain in damage trees lol there is more sustain in damage then there is in tank like wtf.
Rioter Comments
: Me: Hi I've had this login name since January of 2010
i mean im kinda lucky in this regard becasue i have accts in both servers mostly becasue i live on the border and before the server move in na my ping in latin severs was half it was in na lol so i pretty much took my own account name anyways
: Can we make Zyra more into a mid laner please
i mean if they buff her in any way shape of form shes just gonna end up as an even stronger support.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: all of them? do you think zac is going to be played ap? https://euw.op.gg/champion/malphite/statistics/top https://i.gyazo.com/f1dc0729f64d5e6e9e6717e52643b072.png even malphite is being played as a tank now, ap build is the least played build why the fuck would you not build tank, when the tool that allowed to ignore your stats is gone. Black cleaver is garbage and every bruisers build triforce ADC don't build LW items anymore, watch the match history of any proplayer adc. Only mages can give you troubles with void staff.
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rn3mEAW7,comment-id=00010005000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-25T19:35:56.369+0000) > > all of them? > do you think zac is going to be played ap? > https://euw.op.gg/champion/malphite/statistics/top > https://i.gyazo.com/f1dc0729f64d5e6e9e6717e52643b072.png > > even malphite is being played as a tank now, ap build is the least played build > > why the fuck would you not build tank, when the tool that allowed to ignore your stats is gone. > Black cleaver is garbage and every bruisers build triforce > ADC don't build LW items anymore, watch the match history of any proplayer adc. > > Only mages can give you troubles with void staff. good job ignoring the other 2 tabs with support and mid lane going full ap ohh and is that an ap build down there at the bottom? also ap malphite mid has a higher wr ijs
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: ivern isn't a tank, based on opgg zac has 52% win rate malphite 51% win rate maokai 50% win rate singed 53% win rate volibear 52% win rate shen 51% win rate nautilus and gragas being weak? LMFAO, if anything they should be nerfed considering how they are 100% pick and ban in high elo and proplay the only tank who seems to be bad is sion and sejuani >skarner, amumu they need a fucking vgu
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rn3mEAW7,comment-id=000100050000,timestamp=2019-11-25T19:30:20.870+0000) > > ivern isn't a tank, based on opgg > > zac has 52% win rate > malphite 51% win rate > maokai 50% win rate > singed 53% win rate > volibear 52% win rate > shen 51% win rate > > nautilus and gragas being weak? LMFAO, if anything they should be nerfed considering how they are 100% pick and ban in high elo and proplay > > the only tank who seems to be bad is sion and sejuani > > they need a fucking vgu okay now answer the part about how many of them actally go tank???? most of those have been going full ap including shyv soo yeah not tanks but full damage burst.ohhh and as for {{champion:111}} is played in the support role because of hiss lock not becasue of how tanky he is {{champion:79}} tends to build a split of full ap and tank. soo yeahhhhh not really tanks
: Rioters put more than you'd think into making these skins. So cut them a break guys
honestly, it is not the employees fault it almost never is but the problem of just being okay with whatever a company will give you is even worse. its like you go out to buy a tv and it was advertised as a paper thin big screen and when you pay for it they bring out an old 18 inc tv with a built in vcr and say well its the best we could do enjoy.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: damage creep while tanks and juggernauts have like 52-53% win rate now that conqueror is gone rammus ornn garen mundo I'm so done
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rn3mEAW7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-25T09:40:37.480+0000) > > damage creep > > while tanks and juggernauts have like 52-53% win rate now that conqueror is gone > rammus > ornn > garen > mundo > > I'm so done rammus was always a decent tank in the jungle because of how he worked ornn works in lane vs melees because of his brittle garen is mostly built as an adc atm and mundo is just mundo he excels in games he is allowed to just farm in becasue he is heavily reliant on items to boost his ability to survive. sooooo what about all the rest? {{champion:31}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:3}} and out of all of these how many of them actually build tank atm and are not stuck in the support role?? im a cho main i mained top i left the lane with all the bs and instead of playing tank cho i now play assassin cho because its just better in terms of well i can at least blow someone up as i die.
: > [{quoted}](name=hiyares,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F3ZceXZX,comment-id=0001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-25T05:41:15.313+0000) > > items like athenes passive are what are needed in the role so that way other champs cant abuse the efficiency of stats that support items have been bringing from time to time in doing so would empower supports by buffing their heals/shields/buffs based on passives from items that would primarily offer hp mr and armor instead of just stacking ap on everything to make them usable by everyone It's a tricky problem to balance because too much of any stat at an efficient price for support income could be abused by others, same with passives/actives and things that help even out income inequality can make it so champs that were never intended to support can fill that position with more direct impact. The whole problem is 5 champs needing income and at most 4 reliable income streams. Without some way of restricting access to items, almost making them unattractive for the intended users or making champs that don't really need items at all and can't be effectively used in any other roles it will always be a problem. Something like Athene's works because healing/shielding others is not widely available. Items for tank/engage champs is much harder.
> [{quoted}](name=blindasleep,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F3ZceXZX,comment-id=00010000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-25T06:18:59.283+0000) > > It's a tricky problem to balance because too much of any stat at an efficient price for support income could be abused by others, same with passives/actives and things that help even out income inequality can make it so champs that were never intended to support can fill that position with more direct impact. The whole problem is 5 champs needing income and at most 4 reliable income streams. Without some way of restricting access to items, almost making them unattractive for the intended users or making champs that don't really need items at all and can't be effectively used in any other roles it will always be a problem. Something like Athene's works because healing/shielding others is not widely available. Items for tank/engage champs is much harder. see the biggest issue with how other champs abuse some support items is in the fact they they also have pretty decent stats with their actives thta have runes to help boost their effectiveness but imagine there was an item that had no ap some mana regen some health and mr but the passive is that it gave all enchanter abilities a buff based on their level and bonus stats. that would make it so mages cant abuse the item but it would still remain an option for supports and be able to left as a more gold efficient item. (if support items enhance the ability to spport without having actual ap stats in them it makes it near impossible for most other laners to abuse them minus the exception of maybe {{champion:427}} )
: > [{quoted}](name=hiyares,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F3ZceXZX,comment-id=00010000000000000001,timestamp=2019-11-25T05:08:15.074+0000) > > so what your saying is no one is actually a support because they just build damage anyways right? just making sure you understand that Not exactly, just that the poor design decisions made it so that was and is often a better option since a lot of mages were given utility and the best cc gives your enemy a grey screen.
> [{quoted}](name=blindasleep,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F3ZceXZX,comment-id=000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-25T05:27:46.889+0000) > > Not exactly, just that the poor design decisions made it so that was and is often a better option since a lot of mages were given utility and the best cc gives your enemy a grey screen. items like athenes passive are what are needed in the role so that way other champs cant abuse the efficiency of stats that support items have been bringing from time to time in doing so would empower supports by buffing their heals/shields/buffs based on passives from items that would primarily offer hp mr and armor instead of just stacking ap on everything to make them usable by everyone
: > [{quoted}](name=hiyares,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F3ZceXZX,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-24T22:58:54.542+0000) > > so is that why you see full ap mages on the support role? because they dont wanna die so ill just kill them frist? Pretty much, if you can't kill you become useless because if you can't contribute to damage in a meaningful way, or your carries aren't ahead and spoon feeding you assist/objective gold so that your utility matters, the items that you are expected to build on supports {{item:3107}} {{item:3050}} {{item:3222}} {{item:3109}} etc. don't really impact the game, because they are reliant on at least one or the other of you to have meaningful stats. These changes are basically that Riot wants games to end around 25-30 minutes on average and for the upper end of games that have to be averaged into that to also be lower. The easiest way to do that is to increase how games snowball and add things like the elder execute damage so that one fight can end games at that point regardless of who gets the buff.
> [{quoted}](name=blindasleep,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F3ZceXZX,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-24T23:40:13.893+0000) > > Pretty much, if you can't kill you become useless because if you can't contribute to damage in a meaningful way, or your carries aren't ahead and spoon feeding you assist/objective gold so that your utility matters, the items that you are expected to build on supports {{item:3107}} {{item:3050}} {{item:3222}} {{item:3109}} etc. don't really impact the game, because they are reliant on at least one or the other of you to have meaningful stats. These changes are basically that Riot wants games to end around 25-30 minutes on average and for the upper end of games that have to be averaged into that to also be lower. The easiest way to do that is to increase how games snowball and add things like the elder execute damage so that one fight can end games at that point regardless of who gets the buff. so what your saying is no one is actually a support because they just build damage anyways right? just making sure you understand that
: > [{quoted}](name=hiyares,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F3ZceXZX,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-24T21:51:17.520+0000) > > people forget that the whole reason that income was implemented in the first place was because you had to actually buy all your wards or the old vision stone thing that gave you wards and heath but had to be upgraded with gold. so now you dont need to actually buy too many wards you get a free item with decent stats for it being you know pretty much free. so now you gt a free 1000gold for just existing in the game as well as passive gold income that the game itself will give you. From that you have the minions you cantake from time to time when the laner is out of lane or just catching minions the laner missed. lets say over the course of the game thats another what 1k gold give or take. then you have assist gold and possibly kill gold. > > the problem with support is that it is no longer a support only role its kill lane becasue of mages and the introduction of the ad version you legit see jarvan supports one shotting enemy adcs as well as ashe supports being able to help with damage as well. I honestly wish they would bring support items like {{item:3174}} into the game because it actually rewards you for supporting. The game needs more support items with actual support style passives and actives to get supports back into the game. Doesn't matter how many support items there are if you can't buy them and if you make them strong enough that only 1-2 is enough to give you noticable agency in a game that last longer than 25 minutes they will almost certainly be abusable by other positions, and much earlier in the game than supports will be able to. You may not do it, but other players regularly flame, troll, AFK, or int if you take "their" farm if they don't directly benefit from it. These changes were primary made to shorten games by making warding and clearing far more dangerous thus limiting vision even more for teams that fall behind an snowballing games to a quicker end, but in a more even game where both supports are at similar threat level it will promote passive play as supports don't want to die because they happen to skirt someone's vision in auto attack range when they can literally be one shot by a carry with a more complete build leaving their team in 4v5.
> [{quoted}](name=blindasleep,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F3ZceXZX,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-11-24T22:01:08.780+0000) > > Doesn't matter how many support items there are if you can't buy them and if you make them strong enough that only 1-2 is enough to give you noticable agency in a game that last longer than 25 minutes they will almost certainly be abusable by other positions, and much earlier in the game than supports will be able to. You may not do it, but other players regularly flame, troll, AFK, or int if you take "their" farm if they don't directly benefit from it. These changes were primary made to shorten games by making warding and clearing far more dangerous thus limiting vision even more for teams that fall behind an snowballing games to a quicker end, but in a more even game where both supports are at similar threat level it will promote passive play as supports don't want to die because they happen to skirt someone's vision in auto attack range when they can literally be one shot by a carry with a more complete build leaving their team in 4v5. so is that why you see full ap mages on the support role? because they dont wanna die so ill just kill them frist?
GigglesO (NA)
: Minion change just happened on support items?
notice how you dont have an actual support item but that 1 you start with lol thats why the gold income is being reduced ty and Jesus am i happy for that
JPlayah (NA)
: New support items are literally institutionalized poverty
people forget that the whole reason that income was implemented in the first place was because you had to actually buy all your wards or the old vision stone thing that gave you wards and heath but had to be upgraded with gold. so now you dont need to actually buy too many wards you get a free item with decent stats for it being you know pretty much free. so now you gt a free 1000gold for just existing in the game as well as passive gold income that the game itself will give you. From that you have the minions you cantake from time to time when the laner is out of lane or just catching minions the laner missed. lets say over the course of the game thats another what 1k gold give or take. then you have assist gold and possibly kill gold. the problem with support is that it is no longer a support only role its kill lane becasue of mages and the introduction of the ad version you legit see jarvan supports one shotting enemy adcs as well as ashe supports being able to help with damage as well. I honestly wish they would bring support items like {{item:3174}} into the game because it actually rewards you for supporting. The game needs more support items with actual support style passives and actives to get supports back into the game.
: i feel like all of the people commenting in favor of the support item changes arent support players
So i started playing this game at the end of season 1 but didnt really get into it till mid season 2 where i started as a support and honestly i still enjoy playing support but the problem with al lthis freed up gold makes it so annoying when you just see mages and now ranged ad being able to just abuse their base damages to force out laners. my biggest issue is that even with these current changes it hasnt changed the kill lane mentality much at all as a matter of fact i have been seeing crap like {{champion:50}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:45}} going full damage or full tank in the bot lane that is not and well never be a support its a kill lane simple as that if you are gonna try and tell me you are laying support but running {{item:3285}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3152}} {{item:3089}} you are delusional seriously. honestly support has not felt like an actual "support" role in years and i left the lane when nothing but mages that could burst were meta
Bârd (NA)
: The point of a gold generation item is to generate gold. The new support items do not do that.
honestly you dont need any gold income the old gold income was about buying wards after that changed it was about just getting support items that were gold effecient but now its still the same old well im a go full ap mage or ad assassin abuse base damages and rush burst items and get gold off of kills. {{item:3854}} this item needs to be buffed and fast has slower recharge rate so takes 33% longer give or take compared to all the others that have shorter charge times and less restrictive requirement for the gold. should not be so bad anymore since it no longer heals your ally just gives them the gold.
: People have been playing mages support LONG before this shit update. Wanna know why? Because, for those of us who actually support to support, Riot keeps nerfing actual supports. Riot decided to say fuck it to enchanter and tank supports a long ass time ago when they nerfed nearly all the support items items, and then most of the shields. Only a few patches ago did a support get a small buff to her shield, but that requires her to use (and land) her spells for a slight cd reduction. When all Riot is doing is nerfing anything related to supports, it's hard to be able to play an actual support.
> [{quoted}](name=Icy Hot Shoto,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=MM9X9yfv,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-11-24T09:43:37.919+0000) > > People have been playing mages support LONG before this shit update. Wanna know why? Because, for those of us who actually support to support, Riot keeps nerfing actual supports. Riot decided to say fuck it to enchanter and tank supports a long ass time ago when they nerfed nearly all the support items items, and then most of the shields. Only a few patches ago did a support get a small buff to her shield, but that requires her to use (and land) her spells for a slight cd reduction. > > When all Riot is doing is nerfing anything related to supports, it's hard to be able to play an actual support. ohh i know i used to be a support main in season2 i miss the old gp10 builds that forced you into actual support items but also back then off builds were punished a lot harder with the fact that you needed more gold just to get more gold income for wards that had to be bought now that an entire item is free with built in gold income and the 0 cost for normal wards its just so much easier for oppressive mages and bruisers to just snowball bot lane if you ever dare go an actual support into them.
: So.. Can we get our support items back?
just got out of a game where support lux went full ap becasue fuck actual supports right? so no leave the support items as is and punish mages harsher for trying to be played as a kill lane
m0zz4r3ll4 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=hiyares,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0Ou4AVLN,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-11-23T03:21:12.527+0000) > > ohh yeah and then that support snowballs the lane even harder with the increased gold income getting free wards faster 3rd support item and probably full damage anyways so then just start one shotting ppl with the heavily increased income and stats for just exisiting. Thats how kills work. A player gets a kill.They use the gold to get better items, thus making them a bigger threat There is no difference between an ADC getting an early {{item:1038}} and a supp getting early wards
> [{quoted}](name=m0zz4r3ll4,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0Ou4AVLN,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-11-23T09:28:57.037+0000) > > Thats how kills work. A player gets a kill.They use the gold to get better items, thus making them a bigger threat > There is no difference between an ADC getting an early {{item:1038}} and a supp getting early wards the difference is that bf has a flat stat on its own support items come with passives and several stats that include increased gold income and also its way cheaper and realistically most supports tend to get at least 1 or 2 damage items which is where the lead starts to become more apparent and also the increase in gold income makes it so that the enemy support falls even further behind. and on another note why is it that the poke support items are wayyyyy easier to get the gold for vs the tanks one? i have legit gone several games where i have finished my t3 support item while the enemy using the tank version will just about get a t2.
: U are correct. It got worst with new conq Being useless on bruiser and beyond strong on range mages {{champion:13}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:85}} Even {{champion:17}} , The new item {{item:3181}} and reworkd {{item:3095}} made Adc can just go toplane , Win lane and outscale such {{champion:67}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:236}}, i sow ppl goin {{champion:51}} and {{champion:429}} Top and Just auto win lane Bc what can u do as tank or bruiser to stop them ? I think {{champion:10}} is more better now with new conqueror absoutly nothing So good job riot, u attempt to make toplane better role Just made it worst then before
> [{quoted}](name=TTg Scirocco5,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gcMhLtz6,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-11-23T16:37:21.880+0000) > > U are correct. It got worst with new conq Being useless on bruiser and beyond strong on range mages {{champion:13}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:85}} Even {{champion:17}} , The new item {{item:3181}} and reworkd {{item:3095}} made Adc can just go toplane , Win lane and outscale such {{champion:67}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:236}}, i sow ppl goin {{champion:51}} and {{champion:429}} Top and Just auto win lane Bc what can u do as tank or bruiser to stop them ? I think {{champion:10}} is more better now with new conqueror > absoutly nothing So good job riot, u attempt to make toplane better role Just made it worst then before im actually just using cait mid now lol rush stormrazors and it helps get her through that horid mid game she tends to have.
D3m37r1 (NA)
: Hasn't it been like that since the {{summoner:12}} nerf?
> [{quoted}](name=D3m37r1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zUvX5Hsy,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-11-22T02:04:48.528+0000) > > Hasn't it been like that since the {{summoner:12}} nerf? pretty much becasue every other lane abused it as well and imagine if it was pre nerf with the pussycat
m0zz4r3ll4 (EUNE)
: Remember when you got an early kill as a supp and you could go back and upgrade your supp item? RIOT likes to shit on everything we love
> [{quoted}](name=m0zz4r3ll4,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0Ou4AVLN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-22T21:07:16.415+0000) > > Remember when you got an early kill as a supp and you could go back and upgrade your supp item? > > RIOT likes to shit on everything we love ohh yeah and then that support snowballs the lane even harder with the increased gold income getting free wards faster 3rd support item and probably full damage anyways so then just start one shotting ppl with the heavily increased income and stats for just exisiting.
Ymir1906 (NA)
: F in the chat for the support role.
honestly it hasn't stopped supports from pretty much just going full damage and just doing the same one shot cc lanes to get gold anyways. i prefer these changes because now supports dont get free gold all game and might actually start playing with actual support items lol. I used to main support in s2 to 3 and it was way harder but at the same time more enjoyable i didn't just sit in lane generating gold because i exist we had to fucking work to get that gold through assists and itemizing correctly to make any gold as effective as possible.
Rioter Comments
: Everything else is w/e (allthough lmao if you think that League is the only game with those problems), but...This: > freezes my computer If that's what I'm thinking of (gets stuck on loading screen and you're unable to close the screen), it's not Riot's problem. It's Microsoft's blatant incompetence. Even fucking Apple did it right by making the easier way the one that allowed you to close things properly even when fullscreened. Your only option is to either switch to a Mac or play in Borderless/Windowed. > can't be run with most other programs I have legitimately never had any issue (besides ping) running League with any other program open. Are you referring to the "can't run anything with cheat engine in it" thing? Or is this issue with other programs as well?
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4FQgvmZA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-13T12:38:11.084+0000) > > Everything else is w/e (allthough lmao if you think that League is the only game with those problems), but...This: > > If that's what I'm thinking of (gets stuck on loading screen and you're unable to close the screen), it's not Riot's problem. It's Microsoft's blatant incompetence. Even fucking Apple did it right by making the easier way the one that allowed you to close things properly even when fullscreened. Your only option is to either switch to a Mac or play in Borderless/Windowed. > > I have legitimately never had any issue (besides ping) running League with any other program open. Are you referring to the "can't run anything with cheat engine in it" thing? Or is this issue with other programs as well? yes lets blame the operating system not the game which is supposed to be developed for said operating system huh. that makes complete sense to me and the client has been bugged since the game was released and its just getting worse lately with even more odd bugs like client freezes game freezes refusing to load and stuff like that legit getting bug splats middle of the game. has nothing to do with riots spaghetti coding of course not never the coding. Also i hate windows 10 its an operating system that fucks itself with its own internal processes that you literally have to disable to keep it running but dont blame it all on that.
: > More general players pick her up as she is easy to play and safe so she has a high play rate, they are less experienced and therefore lose more often She has a sub-50% win rate in *Master +*. That argument is completely baseless.
> [{quoted}](name=Wilk Rycerz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U7FRmWNR,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-11-13T16:22:52.626+0000) > > She has a sub-50% win rate in *Master +*. That argument is completely baseless. because master tier and up never get autofilled or with lower elo players because of their low player base in the rank. she is stacked overly safe and has the ability to use both ap and ad defensive and offensive items making her a pain to deal with in any situation ohhh and like most adcs that are viable she not crit reliant.
Fluffi (NA)
: All I ask for S10
to be fair this season was all about early game and snowball. I just had a game last night where my bot lane fed a xayah by 20mins she had 11 kills. so i mean every other lane as working together to try and shut her down but she was so fed that we just couldn't kill her and we just slowly lost to her lead. for solo que in general lanes tend to be annoying lane dominant champs every game and honestly is why i just said fuck top lane and am now in mid with how lanes work and the current champs people play in solo que you are literally on your own in some cases because the jungler will refuse to gank a lane because of who is in the lane with you. I myself try not to just give up but then i had another game that my draven adc legit began running it down t 4 mins because the support accidentally took 2 cs. you can see the games on my op,gg if you want lol its pretty fucking funny. So honestly i think the mindset is just a collection of the bad luckand sometimes questionable matchmaking in both ranked and norms.
Rioter Comments
: Why is Fiora allowed to "Cripple" me, but Darius with his "Crippling Strike" not?
if i am not mistaken doesn't darius "crippling strike" which is a 90% slow sooooo thats lie if someone just went at your kneecap with a pipe because oh trust me you are crawling at that debuff. Fiora is fine imo shes one of those champs that if she falls behind she gets fucked and is reliant on being able to dodge key skills with w if not she just dies.
: "Oh no we made Blitz too strong with the hook buff! How do we fix it?"
to be honest he isn't even that bad. he still plays the same he just slightly better at what he does he still has the same weaknesses. I think his major issue is in lower elos whee people just do not respect the pressure just being able to pick someone off brings to a lane. He is litteraly near useless after he misses his q and its still a risk if he pulls the wrong target that can just cc lock his entire team or something. i still have issues with supports being able to go full ap and on shot people at least blitz is meant to get a single pick as a support for his team.
: Why is URF or AURF the only game mode that gets brought back?
because urf is for the most casual/toxic players real shit the only people on my friends list who like urf or any iteration of it are literally some of the most toxic ppl i know lol ohh and i would like to add adhd and for those with short attention spans.
: > [{quoted}](name=hiyares,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wIREg5ux,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-24T00:05:32.556+0000) > > correct me if i am wrong here but trist can legit ignore most cc in the game with her jump at the correct timing so i dont think trist is the best example of that and also depends on where he jumped like you can technically walk on said traps and not proc them it has to do with the hit box. jax cannot buffer jump because his q does not have a cast time
> [{quoted}](name=ShyImagoghnar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wIREg5ux,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-24T00:06:32.715+0000) > > jax cannot buffer jump because his q does not have a cast time but thats kinda my point on who he is comparing jax to and again it might have to do with the hitbox of the trap
: (BUG) Jax can dash through cait traps
correct me if i am wrong here but trist can legit ignore most cc in the game with her jump at the correct timing so i dont think trist is the best example of that and also depends on where he jumped like you can technically walk on said traps and not proc them it has to do with the hit box.
Show more

hiyares

Level 229 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion