: from all my heart. riots balance team is extremly extremly bad at their job.
So long as runes reforge exists, it's not even their fault. RR forbids the game from reaching a balanced state.
: Fuck Marry Kill League of Legends Edition
tough between vi or cait, that piltover pussy and of course kill zoe
: Riot needs to do something about this.
ah, the "normal blind" champion select method
: Why Runes Reforged should be reverted to the Season 1-4 Runes+Masteries system
it's not "pick your champion, then choose your whacky keystone" it's "whoever abuse these most is best champion" it's fraudulent as hell, the whole of runes reforged is a mistake, and always will be
Asifion (NA)
: Game Clarity - Yasuo Windwall
It shouldn't be able to block attacks that come from behind him on it's spawn. It's fucking amazing that these people still have jobs.
Pika Fox (NA)
: He needed a Q range buff. That doesnt mean that it needs to be reverted if it makes him too strong. Theyre fleshing out his strengths and weaknesses better, which is also better for the game because a max range Q grab pre nerf was almost never the optimal play anyway, as its easily dodged in most cases. Optimal play is (Flash) W in, land E, wait for reaction Q. Or (Flash) W in, force their mobility THEN Q. Also, the range increase is also a nerf if he misses, as i dont believe he got a missile speed increase to go with it, so he is locked out longer if he misses Q.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=busyHRis,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-11-01T18:57:44.148+0000) > > That doesnt mean that it needs to be reverted if it makes him too strong. I..... what?
: Actually, 2-item lethality is buffed because of the Dual Wield Passive, and 2-item energized is the same thing because they now stack. Single-item powerspikes are now less common though.
to be honest, single item power is what i've been begging for nerfs for so this all reads pretty well to me. now they just need to rework ludens echo to be an actual poke item instead of just "buy this and win" and we might be on the right track
: It's...not slower though? Literally once you've added everything beforehand up it's the same speed, minus the time it took for you to put in your password.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=uxjIEa7u,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-29T13:35:38.223+0000) > > It's...not slower though? > > Literally once you've added everything beforehand up it's the same speed, minus the time it took for you to put in your password. it is guaranteed much slower
Trias000 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Jaspers,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=YjE65n1z,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-29T11:08:17.149+0000) > > Needs that CDR and mana, man. He's got to scale. I always take trancendence on URF so cdr actually gives me a lot. And Manamune makes some sense. It's super fast to stack and then you always have 100% mana for them extra damages.
they did nerf transendence this time around, it grants 50% less power than ordinary
: > [{quoted}](name=Turtles Are Okay,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3bpMBg7T,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2019-10-29T03:20:30.946+0000) > > This is the way to go, unfortunately, you'll get downvoted for saying it. yea ive been masters and high diamond most of the season, and i realize that i am still bad at the game, and when i get spam pinged i ask myself what mistakes i am making so i can improve from my misplays, instead of muting the person i pinged and slowly lose the game because of the misplay i did (high elo can literally be 1 misplay lose game) if you want a nice place where you can afford to make mistakes and not owe up spam pings to the misplay you made to improve afterwards you will literally never improve. Unless u are a former rank 1 player, you have no right to ignore the advice of players who have played alongside in league of legends, the goal of the game is to win for your team and achieve victory, and believe in your team, and when your team throws that victory away pinging is the only acceptable form of response, with chat leading to a instaban, and if you take defeat like a robot league isn't for you
something tells me, if your rank is true, that you don't need a ping to know when you made a mistake. :) but keep being toxic im sure it's very productive
: Camera randomly locking EVERYTIME since last patch
i mean i've been having this bug for over 5 years so idk. i have to hold left click on the minimap and tap right click a few times simultaneously to fix it.
: I would definitely like if she stopped scaling like a mage when she is meant to be marksman/assassin.
I would come at it the other way - I'm upset that she scales like a marksman when she's clearly a mage.
: What do you guys miss most from league?
when playing a no mobility champion wasn't akin to having no mouse.
mark6028 (EUW)
: How many worlds midlaner have to rush void staff second ?
{{item:3285}} is the worst item ever invented. They nerfed Athene's into the ground for being "too good, 1 item shouldn't remove your need for mana and have good stats" LOL guess we just forget all the lessons we learn
: is that why female champions are so strong? i always thought it was because they tend to sell skins better especially the ones with skintight suits
> [{quoted}](name=ShyImagoghnar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ZWpquLVh,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-10-27T23:49:53.512+0000) > > is that why female champions are so strong? > > i always thought it was because they tend to sell skins better > > especially the ones with skintight suits egg chicken, chicken egg, either way, skarner needs to become as bonified sexy as chaos witch queelag, ASAP.
: I hope a Vladamir VGU is in the next year.
The ratios on his Q and E are hugely problematic for the cooldown at max rank. If his damage and sustain were lower at rank 5 but more consistent at early levels, he wouldn't need to be this ridiculous anti-outplay burst mage late game. The fact that his Q does not have to be charged twice to BE empowered if you USE the empowered Q is from all outside appearances just a shitty bug they kept as a feature. If it were 2 Q's for **every **empowered Q, the haste and healing received could be well compensated without making him ridiculous. The fact is that he can empowered Q every 6 seconds at max cdr. That's not right. There is no window. At 9 seconds, that is more palatable for other long-term duelists to scrap him down after pool. These are probably my two biggest gripes. That banjo kazooie line lmao
: Improving matchmaking will probably improve player behaviour as well
I see a ton of these posts that try to justify toxicity, and every time I have to come in and remind people that a bad game isn't feeding, and racial slurs don't make anybody play better. This is not one of those times. Frustration is the only response you can have when faced with glaringly unmitigated, unfair matches. Sometimes it's as simple as "I tried a new champ and happened to be vs somebody who has 300k mastery points on riven" (true story) but often times it is not.
: ....What manaless tanks exist?
The bigger problem is how tanks are forced to dump so much of their hypothetically reduced income (since they typically aren't getting kill credits or turret plating) into mana - a resource that does not "help" them at all. I spend 900 gold {{item:3024}} _**on a pittance of armor**_ and you get a vampiric scepter. For 200g _less_, you get almost as much AD as i get armor. Tanks want to buy {{item:3071}} - it's an item focused on health cdr and debuffing enemies for your carries to deal more damage. They can't. Tanks want to buy {{item:3025}} - 2700g spent on NO HEALTH, and will eventually only give half of it's armor value as a result of Conq/Cleaver/last whisper? They can't. Tanks want to buy {{item:3068}} - Never trigger demolish and you push the wave by default. Two things that literally compound each other to make your lane untenable. They can't. The question framed by Saezio is completely valid. Tank items SUCK BALLS as a result of being tied to _**a stat tanks don't want. **_
PB4UAME (NA)
: Assassins abusing tank items to be utter abominations of terrible design is not a tank meta, that was firmly an assassin meta despite them abusing tank items and getting them all absolutely fucking destroyed as a result.
Spirit Visage? How dare you have 20% CDR - but black cleaver and spear of shojin, yes come right in, heres your 20 cdr and wonderful passive. Wouldja like a handjob as well, we give any maleficent fuckfest champion a six month jerk off period where we can sell skins while making the pro scene a zany catastrophe of 100% pick/ban meta champs.
Moody P (NA)
: we're seeing some pretty significant damage nerfs in preseason
Basically, my only problem? Aftershock, Conq, and Spear of Shojin are things that should either: Never have existed or Been fixed _**over 18 months ago, when it was blatantly obvious they were problematic. **_ Riot's timescale is unconscionable. There's no way to hold onto any merit or competitive spirit the game can possibly hold when such tragic, obvious bullshit can pass for more than two weeks, let alone two years.
Bread Pit (EUW)
: Can you guys add an HP Tear Upgrade?
Riftn00b (EUNE)
: I don't know about a single champion that can only win if it takes 4 turret shot in early game. I won many games in aram with different champions and I never needed that.
depending on your team, the only way to kill the enemy is to go towards them. if you can't do that, you remove the most important win condition - advancing.
Riftn00b (EUNE)
: Riot: Could you make turrets be less of a joke in Aram, please?
Why would you remove the only route to victory for 90% of the champions
: EU Best Region in the World!!
FNC haters bout to come back out the woodwork with their old merch on like they were on board the whole time. problem is I put CG 3rd in that group in pickem xd
: Has anyone made really good friends over League?
no but i did meet the guy who fked my mom
: {{item:3047}} has the lowest win rate out of all boots. It definitely needs buffs not nerfs. If it was strong full AD teams wouldn't be so common.
I wonder if that's because you aren't buying merc treads, not that ninja tabi is bad in and of itself.
: Nerfing Jungle Experience... Again
Reduced xp was the right call - _**increased spawn rates should be corresponding if not adding another jg camp entirely**_. I proposed a camp that is designed the way Poacher's Dirk was (that is, stealing enemy camps should be highly rewarded for the risk). If you kill your own kwizzle or whatever the fuck you call it, you get about 50g, if you kill the enemy one, you get 100g and a zombie ward that you can place (visible, doesn't detect stealth). There should be value lost when camping. Currently there is none. Power farming junglers should receive less xp than laners, but comparable gold. Gank junglers should be balanced around the fact that for every resource they lose, they are robbing an enemy laner of much more. Pulled off well, you will not fall very far behind and have sums of gold from plating/kills and xp from sharing with your laners. At some point, you can't make changes like this though. The game can't exist in a state where Master Yi doing nothing but killing camps is the right call just because it makes him more powerful than he should become without interaction. I don't know where this breakpoint is, but I do know which side of the spectrum we are currently on.
: to me the issue isnt the root duration its the speed in which it travels, i think it needs to be speed up, nothing crazy but come on. but i as a maokai OTP typically have no issue hitting my ULTs. but then again if im using it to engage ill typically W in to try to get behind the enemy team and then ult towards my team as they follow or i use it in tight spaces in angles across the area so they have blow flash to get over terrain. i think they need to revert two changes ... give his W the % hp back and take it from E give E its damage on impact back. to use E in wave and wait for it to randomly run around or whatever to hit something is hit n miss. if it has its impact damage back it does two things. make it more reliable as a farm tool when in bad match ups and more reliable as a form of poke. but this giving him damage which is nice but i think he and most tanks need better base stats maokai with a {{item:1054}} has 565 base hp + 80hp = 645 hp lvl 1 lucian with {{item:1055}} has 571 base hp + 80 hp = 651 hp lvl 1 darius with {{item:1055}} has 582 base hp + 80 = 662 hp lvl 1 ( not only does darius has more base hp, he has a higher hp per lvl gain and have same starting base armor and mr with more ms and range ) darius hp gain per lvl +100 , maokai hp gain per lvl +95) i know its seems like not alot ... but at lvl 18 darius has 2282 hp and maokai has 2180 as far as armor /mr at lvl 18 darius 107 armor 53 mr , maokai 107 armor 53 mr rumble with {{item:1054}} has 589 base hp + 80 = 669 hp lvl1 akali with {{item:1054}} has 575 base hp + 80 = 655 hp lvl 1 ryze with {{item:1056}} has 571 base hp + 80 = 651 hp lvl 1 zoe with {{item:1056}} has 560 base hp + 80 = 640 hp lvl 1 i tried to get a good mix of types of champs /roles to compare base hp stats i do know they dont get all the same hp growth per lvl as maokai and dont necessarily build as much hp in game but tanks are the worst in early game currently which legit handcuffs them majority the counters to tanks have as good base stats if not slightly better and scale to do damage ( juggernauts for 1 ) and on top of that juggeranuats by end game are comparably as tanky with out the cc but with damage. i have purposed a few things to help tanks. one is the hp rune in flex runes gives 15-90 hp based on lvl. well this is great if you have 460hp lvl 1 but dont make a lot of difference if you have 565 hp i think this needs to scale with % of max hp , rewarding tanks for building hp and not rewarding squishy champs also buffing tank items by giving it a % bonus hp /armor /mr component based on how much bonus hp/armor/mr you have this wouldnt buff their damage but buff tanks with tank stats and not allowing non tanks to benefit from it. cuz well they just dont build into those stats a flat buff to tank items would see what we had before with no tanks going "tank' and still doing damage ( fizz top lane sunfire/iceborn one example)
Yeah, xin zhao having higher base hp than maokai is unconscionable.
Rioter Comments
Razelth (NA)
: ***
idk man i do see some stupid shit from diamond players
: I have nothing to work towards
this is actually kind of thing that made this game appealing in the first place IMHO, the game genres have gone through interesting phases. After the MASSIVE wave of MMO games, people were sick of games that required half a year just to "start playing." They also usually required monthly payments. Genres like MOBA exploded because people were like "I just pick a thing, play it for 30 minutes, and if i don't like it... I just pick something else?" That's alluring. Except, then it became incredibly straining dealing with these ass holes and the "NO IM MID FK U" and the flaming and the whining... here comes a genre called ROYALE. No classes, no prep, fuck teammates, get in, kill things, get out, do it again. It was a massive hit. Except, then it became straining to deal with the lag, hit reg, lack of development, cheating...
: Its harder to display a legitimate outplay these days
> [{quoted}](name=dontspinbutwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gwaoPkzH,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-10-14T18:29:14.330+0000) > > * Manages to bushweave as rengar as toplane rengar, then turns a gank around for a double kill* > "Like wtf is that bs" lol, i really don't get how people lose to top lane rengar
: Tank means Force the enemy to hit me but i can take it. Its not that tanks shouldnt die but that they should take super long to take down. You should be the leader of the team but carry players dont follow up then bm you for feeding. Most tanks are a choice of afk under tower and lose all your farm or dont even get exp because they are freezing on their side of the river and zoning you out if you walk up you end up in a fight you cant excape before level 6 and post level 6 you can only excape once every 140 seconds (being the general low end for tank ults) . I can only pray for your luck in getting brain dead enemies that allow you to do everything on your tanks because most tanks are clunky have delays that other classes dont have and can easily dodge and have longer cooldown down times than other classes tanks have better base stats but dont scale well past level7 when they have to start leveling other abilites . Yes your arent playing a tank building ap items you are just playing a melee ranged mage who is only slightly tankier than a ranged mage who is building {{item:3027}} {{item:3165}} but in a far more dangerous spot.
> [{quoted}](name=LordGeovanni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0bc9d9fW,comment-id=00040006,timestamp=2019-10-14T11:08:59.336+0000) > > Tank means Force the enemy to hit me but i can take it. Its not that tanks shouldnt die but that they should take super long to take down. > You should be the leader of the team but carry players dont follow up then bm you for feeding. > Most tanks are a choice of afk under tower and lose all your farm or dont even get exp because they are freezing on their side of the river and zoning you out if you walk up you end up in a fight you cant excape before level 6 and post level 6 you can only excape once every 140 seconds (being the general low end for tank ults) . This is what happens when your lane mechanics suck, yes. > I can only pray for your luck in getting brain dead enemies that allow you to do everything on your tanks because most tanks are clunky have delays that other classes dont have and can easily dodge and have longer cooldown down times than other classes tanks have better base stats but dont scale well past level7 when they have to start leveling other abilites . This robs me of my victories, but you haven't watched my games. Forced error is a term the casters like to use - it means the enemy is in a situation where they have to choose which thing they lose, and they can not make that decision quickly enough. Get ruptured or intentionally back away and miss a cannon creep? Forfeit the tower or risk the skill shots? When you are in Solo Q, these mistakes happen very frequently. That is not a fault, that is life. > Yes your arent playing a tank building ap items you are just playing a melee ranged mage who is only slightly tankier than a ranged mage who is building {{item:3027}} {{item:3165}} but in a far more dangerous spot. Sion and Cho have 3k hp with one completed item and a kindle gem. Yes, I'm pretty sure I am still a tank when I have 3k hp before 20 minutes. Difference is, now when people dump their load into me, I'm more like 1/3 hp than 1/2. But the things they waste are that much more meaningful then, because that same damage could have been dealt to easier targets. By building more aggressively, I FORCE the enemy to waste these resources, because as I mentioned elsewhere in this comment chain, when I build thornmail, guess what? nobody attacks me, and I can't hurt anyone, leaving me a non factor in the fight.
: I believe that champions die quickly yes, and building defense makes it slightly longer, but I also realize that zhonyas is 2.5 seconds if invulnerability and she cant be cced and its unrealistic to think she will be killed in the time it takes her to walk into 5 people at 900 speed and cast R, its less about the R. --- Morg R has 4x the surface area of malphites. and 5x that of chogaths or more it also slows and speeds her up and she also has SPELL VAMP. So yes she with a build like malphites will last as long as malphite, or longer vs magic damage. Thats the point, tanks arent tanky because they are tanks, they are tanky because of their items, yet those items are very non-cost efficient. Certain champs do have buffs to those stats like rammy or malphite, but thats just the difference of less than 1 second of damage. Morgs magic shield will grant more survivability than malphites passive and armor since magic damage is more bursty and front loaded and people usually die in cc. ---- Zilean can ult the tank that engage or the carry that died, but sometimes its just best to let zed full combo the adc and have the adc respawn back at full hp than peeling while she is at 50%. Zil has far more utility that would be useful than malphite. --- Front liners are strong yes, but anyone building front line power can front line, tanks arent even the best at it anymore. As you said before, j4 and grag typically go into full burst damge builds, meanwhile rengo goes tank. -- As for chogath. Go and silence a hecarim ult, go and silence a morg in black shield, go and silence a qss on a rengo, go and silence a master yi, im sorry but tanks like cho while good counterpicks fail at their job. Cho only sees pro play when his R 1 shots. And even then he lost most of the games he was played. Stop that rumble with flame spitter shield up and his R down from walking right through your team. Cho' is a beefy boi, if this is what you call a tank, then why does it have SO MUCH DAMAGE in its kit? Its not chose W cc that makes him good, its his passive his R and his range on q. If the q actually hits, it does a LOT of damage, and can be used to get picks, he just builds tank stats because the unreliability of the Q. It has 100% ap ratio, procs things like comet well, why wouldnt people play that as a mage? Simple he cant hit it. Shens taunt, sure it hits ez aim, galios punch, a little less accurate but still ez to use, galios taunt sure kinda low duration tho, rammus taunt great little short on range, his q can be stopped by cc but otherwise its amazing, Cho gath q....... So unreliable, delayed large cast time, massive lock out, reveals where it hits over half a second before, its a karthus skittle that has 2 times the delay. ....Now the q goes off. -- Want a real tank look at Sej Sej has her R thats why she is picked, she is pretty much a ranged lissandra ult. Her tank stats are great for front lining as her passive is awesome, but its mainly the fact she has 3 hard ccs in her kit with massive range. She also doesnt have to follow up her own ranged cc.
I'm not gonna sit here and compare zilean and malphite, lol. Of course Zilean has more utility than malphite, hes a utility support mage, and malphite is a tank with a more selfish design than most. You can't bring up the effective area of the skill without also including it's range, in which case morgana loses out horribly. malphite ult can not be flashed 3/4 of the time just going by cooldowns, so it's much more reliable than you give credit, yet somehow this morgana build of zhonya RG somehow unbeatable?? it's honestly a joke to pretend you can walk across the screen fearlessly just because you use E on morgana. That I can land rupture on the enemies tank under a turret is not at all unbelievable compared to you ulting into 4 people from vision on morgana. You bring up situations which are the sole purpose I pick cho - a silenced master yi can not alpha, and if he does, i rupture his alpha target, gg ez. a rumble can not zhonya if he is silenced, instant kill. You can't say hecarim can ult my back line from OUTSIDE of my W range. That's just completely unfeasible outside of a flanking scenario, which, Cho is still better in than most tanks. I can throw my rupture towards his ult location and still turn to silence the enemy team moving forward. Sejuani is one of my most hated champions, truth be told. Dmg scales from her health, and enemy health, and has mobility and ranged engage... she's like the rework-irelia of tanks. BUT - her passive, and skills like ornn's W, are the perfect tank thematic, ignoring cc and pushing your way forward against the grain. but they constantly supplement these champions with massive %hp dmg, and i have such qualms with that. note: yes i do have qualms with sion galio and cho one comboing people too, but when in rome. i like winning. OP stated "playing front line feels bad now - i eat cooldowns and die, and i don't do anything" - eating cooldowns and dying IS DOING SOMETHING if that's what your job is. As far as I'm concerned, it's no worse now than before - not in lane, not in team fight. We aren't about to pretend teemo, jax, irelia, jayce, and fiora somehow didn't shit on tanks before runes, and yet the boards also loves to complain about "TANK ARDENT META UGH PLS NO" so where is the consensus? it's fine, everybody will just downvote rather than do what you've done here, and for that, i appreciate you.
: zilean prevents then from dying, malphite prevents then from dying, or popppy or whatever. CDr, hunter rune, cdr rune. You can use most moves friveously, especially if it ends in a kill. 1 shotting 2 people occurs with aoe high damage nukes and poor positioning. Something your chogath tank seems to be abusing because that move takes 1.5 seconds to go off from the start of the button press. Cho's entire thematic is that he is unreliable so he gets a malphite ult on his q button. The stall time of any support is while the carry is alive, tank or not, zilean can just do it far better by giving champs like hec the engage speed, slowing the tmere down stunning the back line and rezing his adc at the same time, what can malphite do? push R, the same thing hec was a bout to do, so why have a weak laner when i can have an op jg. Tanks, arent good. Rightous glory morgana does the same except you CANT peel her. Olaf with an orianna ball on him ulting toward your adc witht he w speed buff she gives will be FAR more threatening than a galio.
> [{quoted}](name=Eonslegacy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0bc9d9fW,comment-id=00040003000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-14T05:12:00.079+0000) > > zilean prevents them from dying what i mean is the 3 seconds of the revive are spent just staring at your screen. i would rather my adc do damage for 3 seconds and then die, rather than come out of the revive and then die (because who is killing my enemies while my carry is dead? how did this situation even occur? is it because you didn't have a frontline so your carry got slapped?) > 1 shotting 2 people occurs with aoe high damage nukes and poor positioning. Something your chogath tank seems to be abusing because that move takes 1.5 seconds to go off from the start of the button press. There is no good positioning when you are at your inhibitor turret. I force the enemy team to either come forward, or surrender the turret. No matter what champion, if they pretend they can defend, they are getting silenced at minimum, which is time for them to not flash on my carries while their team is moving forward. Losing ONE SECOND of engage potential is the entire engage foiled ordinarily. > Cho's entire thematic is that he is unreliable so he gets a malphite ult on his q button. I'm not sure that's entirely true, the power of the ability is balanced by it's cast time. Cast time isn't unreliability, it enables rupture to be used as an instant follow up on any single slow or crowd control (i've built GLP instead of shurelya sometimes too) > Tanks, arent good. > Rightous glory morgana does the same except you CANT peel her. I can't imagine you actually believe both of these things at the same time. Tanks are unreliable and die too quickly, but morgana will _just **walk right in** and land a short range skill on **multiple champions**?_
: Cho can be built full ap and those "gank setups" are just you 1 shotting the enemy without NEED of a jg. THen with all the stax you have you can build resistances instead of health, and be tankier than a tank tank. Veigar can also go full tank, why? cc and damage, but even then its not that strong. Tanks arent tanky. I had an enemy full tank ww attack my yasuo, and he didnt even break through my bloodthirster shield to proc my passive after 5 seconds of fighting(nearly 3 of which i was cced. either by my q cast or my R or his fear or his R). Tanks arent tanky, they just scale damage with tank stats which results in them building tank items to DO damage.
> [{quoted}](name=Eonslegacy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0bc9d9fW,comment-id=0004000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-14T04:30:27.979+0000) > > Cho can be built full ap and those "gank setups" are just you 1 shotting the enemy without NEED of a jg. THen with all the stax you have you can build resistances instead of health, and be tankier than a tank tank. are you telling me how _**my** lanes go?_ > Veigar can also go full tank, why? Because of his passive scaling... itemizing for cdr and not dying enables you to not be punished while scaling. He doesn't need damage from items like ludens it's excessive, so he benefits more from utility and defensive items than traditional mages. > Tanks arent tanky, they just scale damage with tank stats which results in them building tank items to DO damage. Most of them don't scale at all - most of them are designed around a %hp damage mechanic to fix their TTK at a mostly static time (or one that even degrades over time against things like MR and life steal), champions with a percentage hp damage mechanic specifically to subsidize their tank item purchases, but some of them have the potential to completely pivot to full damage just due to their kits (gragas, jarvan etc are frontline champions who _can_ build damage, whereas there's no world a champ like lee sin can build cinderhulk)
: He isnt tho, Infact that 2 item spike cho looksa lot like a champ that isnt gonna be reliable. He stomps the ground, then the enemy walks away. Any mage can buy the speed boost item and use cc to engage. They just know that that they could instead 1 shot 2 people and thats overall stronger and just moving someone slightly faster. Hec mid lane zilean isnt a tank but id rather have him than a front line now because at least the R forces a garunteed amount of stall. He has plenty of cc to spare too.
> [{quoted}](name=Eonslegacy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0bc9d9fW,comment-id=000400030001,timestamp=2019-10-14T04:26:15.865+0000) > > He isnt tho, Infact that 2 item spike cho looksa lot like a champ that isnt gonna be reliable. He stomps the ground, then the enemy walks away. Shurelya enables you to either force the enemy to CC you, or you get to silence them. Cho rupture is VERY easy to land in siege scenarios, and the reliability comes from it's short cooldown and his point and click execute (all this talk about "it's so easy to focus the tank" - that's one of cho's greatest strengths is counter tank) > Any mage can buy the speed boost item and use cc to engage. No they can't. An Ori shockwave can not be used so frivolously. > They just know that that they could instead 1 shot 2 people and thats overall stronger and just moving someone slightly faster. one shotting two people? boards exaggeration at it's finest. > mid lane zilean isnt a tank but id rather have him than a front line now because at least the R forces a garunteed amount of stall. The stall time provided by a tank is _**while your carry is still alive**_
: The whole problem with your argument is that {{champion:75}} and the juggernaut line, are more tanky and offer more than the entire tank line. Tanks are just melee mages that SUCK so hard they HAVE to build tank stats now. They dont really synergieze at all anymore. Syndra can build what malphite builds and be better at it than malphite. Thats currently the problem. Remember victor top. Etc. CC is on a LOT of champions including mordekaiser. Would you consider morde a tank? he can blits grip your fiora into the team then if she tries to focus someone shadow realm her. What about {{champion:34}} is she a tank? she has 1 hard cc, 1 unique mechanic thats truly greater cc than most champs, and a aoe massive slow. She even has built in tank stats via her passive. Thats the main problem with tanks rn, they arent TANKS they are melee juggernauts/bruisers/mages that cant build anything else, OR go full damage instead {{champion:54}} {{champion:3}} for instance
> [{quoted}](name=Eonslegacy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0bc9d9fW,comment-id=00040005,timestamp=2019-10-14T04:23:25.278+0000) > > The whole problem with your argument is that {{champion:75}} and the juggernaut line, are more tanky and offer more than the entire tank line. Not. Even. Close. Nasus can not peel OR engage. > Tanks are just melee mages that SUCK so hard they HAVE to build tank stats now. They dont really synergieze at all anymore. It's really the opposite. Tank stats suck so hard they sometimes have to build more aggressively now. (largely to blame things like conqueror/black cleaver for this as it reduces effective gold you spend on armor, blade of the ruined king reduces effective gold you spend on hp also considering that tanks are balanced around earning less gold to begin with) > Syndra can build what malphite builds and be better at it than malphite. Thats currently the problem. Remember victor top. Etc. Again, what? How does syndra engage fights, landing QE is not even close to as reliable as malphite ult. You see things like triple root against IG from neeko and think "wow why bother playing ornn" what? the reason Rookie's double syndra stun is crazy is because it **happens once in a blue moon even for a god. ** And Viktor top was entirely a numbers problem and imbalance in kleptomancy, nothing at all that mages are better tanks than tanks, just that he was able to accrue too much power without punish the way you are supposed to punish scaling champions like that. Same thing with vlad - he isn't a tank, it's the fact that he has a free laning phase, and scaling champions aren't supposed to do that. > CC is on a LOT of champions including mordekaiser. > Would you consider morde a tank? he can blits grip your fiora into the team then if she tries to focus someone shadow realm her. > CC is on a LOT of champions including mordekaiser. > What about {{champion:34}} is she a tank? she has 1 hard cc, 1 unique mechanic thats truly greater cc than most champs, and a aoe massive slow. .... no comment. > She even has built in tank stats via her passive. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE good troll it took me this long to notice
: I did not mean play like a chimp when I said "Caveman brain", by caveman brain I'm referring to the classic brute strength stereotype and mindset that cavemen are referred to as having. I feel it was a staple to tanks back in league of legends earlier days, the idea that a specific champion was just a hunk of a man/ creature that utilized brute force (Tankiness and more) to survive in larger fights. This isn't to say that these champions are brainless, its the mindset that I enjoyed, which is brute force and strength. I feel this idea and playstyle of survivability via tankiness has been tossed out in favor of pure damage, CC, and range. The only people who survive fights now are the Adc's and backline mages because they have either a lot of damage or really strong CC, its extremely poor balancing on riots part.
> [{quoted}](name=Big Boi Darius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0bc9d9fW,comment-id=0004000300000000,timestamp=2019-10-14T03:16:37.105+0000) > I feel it was a staple to tanks back in league of legends earlier days, the idea that a specific champion was just a hunk of a man/ creature that utilized brute force (Tankiness and more) to **_survive _**in larger fights > The only people who **_survive _**fights now are... You are simply mistaken about your role's job - you are selfish. Your job is not to _survive_ fights. Your **job ** _**IS**_ to _**die**_ **FIRST.** For carries, your priority is 1. stay alive as long as possible 2. do as much as possible For tanks, your priority is 1. do as much as possible 2. stay alive as long as possible Tanks can no longer disregard lane - this is a bit tough when things like turret plating are available for ranged. This is the only part of your OP that is actually true, but you don't even focus on the things that actually feel bad. You're complaining that you're eating enemy resources and cooldowns and die as a result, that's literally what you are supposed to do. Is the amount of cooldowns it requires to kill you ~~slightly lower~~hotfix edit: a lot lower, due in large part to cdr/runes? Yes, without a doubt. So focus more on goal 1 than goal 2. This is why I build more damage than armor. Many many many many games I played as Sion, and eventually, if I didn't have something like titanic hydra and trinity force, it wasn't just that I was ignored - I was invisible to the enemy team. They just ignored my Q, the thornmail I bought served no purpose because nobody auto attacked me. Make yourself a problem for the enemy team - no matter what. This is your role. Change your approach, or stick to all these ranged and carry champs that you claim are so overpowered (despite the fact that - in another thread - they were posting almost every tank was within 1.5% of a 50% winrate). I just don't know how a thread like this receives such instant boards love for no reason lmao. CAVEMAN MENTALITY? IS THIS REALLY THE BEST FOR A REAL TIME ACTION STRATEGY GAME?
: Great argument but you missed the point of this post. The op is saying that they can't live long enough to get anything done.
Thought the point of Op was "I want to play like a bonehead and still be rewarded" so idk why he doesn't just play pyke
: You think you can Farm while Akali or Sylas Always use Q on you even you farm in turret, 3s they use Skill on you and you lost CS.
... Yes? All three of those champions I listed have ranged wave clear... and INSANE gank setup. I specifically use sion and galio to beat akali, and cho's sustain can't be punished like in top lane being zoned from wave - you just get that free sustain and assassins can't keep up when they keep taking 200 dmg from silence. Sylas and akali Q do like no damage in lane if you don't hit the explosion/auto passive respectively.
: > [{quoted}](name=ihateyouallmuted,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0bc9d9fW,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-10-13T05:57:17.000+0000) > > I'm gonna come in with a hard disagree. > > When you are the tank, you are the de facto leader. This is not fun for some people, and dying is never either. This is hard truth coming. > > **Dying is a necessary part of League of Legends** > > Do you really think you will 5 - 0 every team fight, or that every lane will go smoothly? League of Legends players have this exact same unrealistic expectation as Rocket League players. Nobody makes every shot - actually nobody. So do not fear death, especially not as the tank. things like 3v4 and 5v5 fights are **made **by one person dying really well. It's such a strange phrase - dying well. This is the skill I believe makes me climb in Solo Q as a tank player. > > Theorycraft - TL;DR "tank" doesn't mean i can't die, it means I force the enemy to choose to kill me > > Carries rely on teammates - as well, you rely on your teammates no matter what (to not int and lose you the game, ping missing hopefully). I say, do not shy away from this intrinsic technicality. This is where most solo Q mentality lose the bigger picture. Bad "teams" make bad decisions, this causes them to lose (solo q players do not like to pretend they are only 1 in 5, this automatically gives me advantage). Tank is hard for most players because MAKING decisions unilaterally is hard to do, and sometimes you get flamed. > > This is fine. If you are mekanik god reaction time, then it is probably better for you to play hyper carry, but humble yourself for just a moment and imagine - how hard you win when you actually win on tanks. Diving towers is "tricky" with some champions. With tank? I am killed? Well, it took you only "a few seconds" while I was tanking a tower. A few seconds was much more for my team to do, I automatically won the GAME by dying. This conceptually accelerates the entire process. You no longer need macro when you have advantage as tank, you literally just bulldoze with Demolish and by virtue of giving your behind teammates or carries your mid game resources. When you do not have advantage as tank... it still works exactly like this! You do not need a second skill set, or to be prodigy born with umbilical cord and mouse cord the same. Most times, you don't even need to outplay honestly. _**Just do the thing.**_ No matter what, you get to do the thing. An Ori shockwave will do jack shit if you have 140 ap at 25 minutes, but i do not need to do jack shit except hit the skill as tank. How is that not fun? With this in mind, you are easily able to win your support auto fill games as well, which really helps the climb. > > Anecdotally - TL;DR masturbatory sion one trick > > When I see I have people who hover Fiora top and Shaco jungle - I say, now is my time to shine - > > I am not a passenger because I am the **_tank_** > > I am **_not_** a passenger _**because**_ I am the tank > > Am I ori, zoe, syndra, of course I have my games, they are mid lane requirements with the recent buffs and zoe just runs games in good match up. But these champs can not use my macro skill quite as well as my micro, and i am much smarter than i am good. > > Playing a tank feels great - harder to die while warding, and always useful. I only play Sion, Cho, and Galio in ranked for the most part. Playing a tank TOP can be boring, but in mid lane sets me up to bring my CC to other lanes while mostly ignoring or bullying assassins and mages, who die to any single gank where (Sion E slow, Cho Rupture, Galio Taunt) land. Playing a tank just now requires far more finesse, patience, and willingness to adapt than ever before. > > Pros play sion mid with spellbook - I like it on Sion and Cho, and I even go aery if I think im about to crush it (melee users get much better use from aery than comet due to return speed). I build trinity force into warmogs on sion - not 40% cdr from defenses. Phage is a busted first item on Sion. if you use your E on a minion who dies, you gain 60 move speed while ALSO slowing the enemy - throw in approach velocity, can not escape Q without flash. > > Cho & Galio get to build my favorite item combo in the game - {{item:3027}} {{item:2065}} SO FKEN CHEAP! two item spike so fast. > > It is easy to say that I am not really playing a tank then. > > Of course I am. I do not have to build randuins to automatically qualify for this title. But you can not play a useless champion anymore - you have to be a "threat." The damage meta works in your favor this way, actually, the same dmg added to a smaller hp is more impactful. It's not by any means defensive item is bad, spectres cowl and ninja tabi are both insane abuse to dps laners, and champions who rely on burst can not always secure alone if you aren't ape playing like OP implies he should be allowed to do. > > It is easy to say that better carry players will punish me much harder. > > I do not know. Only diamond in NA. I haven't fought Faker and I never will. I use my skill set and I succeed. > > It is easy to say, "why me Riot?" > > It is harder to be brave. You're out here spitting wisdom and getting down voted for it. The boards lack in common sense
i mean op literally said "i want to play like a chimp and i cant wtf" lmao
Mcsquzzy (NA)
: who else wants to share their picks
http://pickem.lolesports.com/share/series/6/user/9879149/my-picks I feel very bad about my group B after day one, but we shall see...
: Playing front line champions no longer feels fun
I'm gonna come in with a hard disagree. When you are the tank, you are the de facto leader. This is not fun for some people, and dying is never either. This is hard truth coming. **Dying is a necessary part of League of Legends** Do you really think you will 5 - 0 every team fight, or that every lane will go smoothly? League of Legends players have this exact same unrealistic expectation as Rocket League players. Nobody makes every shot - actually nobody. So do not fear death, especially not as the tank. things like 3v4 and 5v5 fights are **made **by one person dying really well. It's such a strange phrase - dying well. This is the skill I believe makes me climb in Solo Q as a tank player. Theorycraft - TL;DR "tank" doesn't mean i can't die, it means I force the enemy to choose to kill me Carries rely on teammates - as well, you rely on your teammates no matter what (to not int and lose you the game, ping missing hopefully). I say, do not shy away from this intrinsic technicality. This is where most solo Q mentality lose the bigger picture. Bad "teams" make bad decisions, this causes them to lose (solo q players do not like to pretend they are only 1 in 5, this automatically gives me advantage). Tank is hard for most players because MAKING decisions unilaterally is hard to do, and sometimes you get flamed. This is fine. If you are mekanik god reaction time, then it is probably better for you to play hyper carry, but humble yourself for just a moment and imagine - how hard you win when you actually win on tanks. Diving towers is "tricky" with some champions. With tank? I am killed? Well, it took you only "a few seconds" while I was tanking a tower. A few seconds was much more for my team to do, I automatically won the GAME by dying. This conceptually accelerates the entire process. You no longer need macro when you have advantage as tank, you literally just bulldoze with Demolish and by virtue of giving your behind teammates or carries your mid game resources. When you do not have advantage as tank... it still works exactly like this! You do not need a second skill set, or to be prodigy born with umbilical cord and mouse cord the same. Most times, you don't even need to outplay honestly. _**Just do the thing.**_ No matter what, you get to do the thing. An Ori shockwave will do jack shit if you have 140 ap at 25 minutes, but i do not need to do jack shit except hit the skill as tank. How is that not fun? With this in mind, you are easily able to win your support auto fill games as well, which really helps the climb. Anecdotally - TL;DR masturbatory sion one trick When I see I have people who hover Fiora top and Shaco jungle - I say, now is my time to shine - I am not a passenger because I am the **_tank_** I am **_not_** a passenger _**because**_ I am the tank Am I ori, zoe, syndra, of course I have my games, they are mid lane requirements with the recent buffs and zoe just runs games in good match up. But these champs can not use my macro skill quite as well as my micro, and i am much smarter than i am good. Playing a tank feels great - harder to die while warding, and always useful. I only play Sion, Cho, and Galio in ranked for the most part. Playing a tank TOP can be boring, but in mid lane sets me up to bring my CC to other lanes while mostly ignoring or bullying assassins and mages, who die to any single gank where (Sion E slow, Cho Rupture, Galio Taunt) land. Playing a tank just now requires far more finesse, patience, and willingness to adapt than ever before. Pros play sion mid with spellbook - I like it on Sion and Cho, and I even go aery if I think im about to crush it (melee users get much better use from aery than comet due to return speed). I build trinity force into warmogs on sion - not 40% cdr from defenses. Phage is a busted first item on Sion. if you use your E on a minion who dies, you gain 60 move speed while ALSO slowing the enemy - throw in approach velocity, can not escape Q without flash. Cho & Galio get to build my favorite item combo in the game - {{item:3027}} {{item:2065}} SO FKEN CHEAP! two item spike so fast. It is easy to say that I am not really playing a tank then. Of course I am. I do not have to build randuins to automatically qualify for this title. But you can not play a useless champion anymore - you have to be a "threat." The damage meta works in your favor this way, actually, the same dmg added to a smaller hp is more impactful. It's not by any means defensive item is bad, spectres cowl and ninja tabi are both insane abuse to dps laners, and champions who rely on burst can not always secure alone if you aren't ape playing like OP implies he should be allowed to do. It is easy to say that better carry players will punish me much harder. I do not know. Only diamond in NA. I haven't fought Faker and I never will. I use my skill set and I succeed. It is easy to say, "why me Riot?" It is harder to be brave.
: You have given no solid reason as to why it is a "bad design". Your "reasoning" was one champion can't do it so no champ can, and you have to play around his 5 minute cooldown so he shouldn't be able to do it. Also knee capped? No. That quote you took is me making fun of you because you can't keep track of a cooldown like everyone else in this game so the world must cater to you. It is not bad design, you are just bad.
lol, this constant harangue of "you can't keep track of a cooldown" is rather pointless. Let's recap so we can get on with our lives My argument: Why is channeling different? It removes the decision making from the enemy, and gives all the choice to Galio, pure and simple. Let's go back to the prisoner's dilemma: Galio flashes, you flash (1+) a positive play Galio flashes, you don't (2-) a negative play You flash, Galio doesn't (3-) a negative play Neither of you flash (4) neutral Galio has three seconds of charge time to make his decision - this charge time that you were continuously using as a negative is his greatest strength. He can do it at second 1 or second 3, and you can't punish him because you are forced to be so far removed. There is no skillshot to outplay and turn it around. There is no prediction to what Galio will do because Galio has 3 seconds to choose, and it can't be missed. It requires no commitment or skill from Galio's part and no danger. Even the neutral play is a negative play in this regard.
: I will stand on my point that I don't require anybody to play, they queue by themselves. It is not like I formed a team and require them to play. I never mute people I duoQ with or my organized team. My intentions are actually very clear. 1) I want toxic people to waste less of their time on stupid chatting. 2) I see low value in chat, in my case, it distracts me way more than brings useful information. Well kinda yeah, I play my thing, I play for my pleasure, not for someone's else, you can call it selfish, but in the end of the day, that's how I want to spend my free time. If developers added an option to mute all , then it doesn't go against game design. Please refer me where I claimed my non-toxic mentality. It is absolutely fine (not really) to have toxic mentality, as long as you don't affect adequate players. I am very confident, that ignoring toxic players is more effective than arguing with them, it is well known fact actually. As I mentioned above , my mentality is far from non-toxic, but my mind is also critical, and I just can't be wasting my time on chatting. Trust me I did try to talk with toxic players, it is absolutely ungrateful shit, neither I want to see all these fucking whiners, as they want nothing but whining on somebody/something. I also tried target muting people, but at some point all these degenerates start flaming or whining; it is just a matter of time. I just can't hold my aggression towards such behavior, for some time I did, but keep in mind I am playing this game to have a fucking fun, not train my mental. If I at some point I will decide to train my mental, I will stop playing muted, but it is not in close future. Not sure what you found in that post ? Yes, I mostly win my lane, but yet sometimes lose ? Not sure what you wanted to tell me here. It is more of an issue with macro, nothing about fullmute mentality. Ah and yes, you maybe didn't know, but even though I mute everyting allies still see my pings (keep it in secret). As I said earlier,I am confident, that muting toxic people contributes towards better effectiveness, as they don't waste their time on chatting. In case you decided not to read all this summary, as I mentioned I care more about my well spent time, hence I use muteall for me, not against/for somebody.
I made this comment chain mostly in lieu of making a thread of my own about this topic, but I thank you for being here for it. The worst feeling is the idea that people won't even pay attention. > [{quoted}](name=FullmuteAll play,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tnUJTdEq,comment-id=000500000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-24T02:01:32.629+0000) > > I will stand on my point that I don't require anybody to play So you spend literally all of your game time in the PRACTICE TOOL, with no other humans whatsoever? Or do you play against _human_ opponents with _humans_ on your team? > My intentions are actually very clear. 1) I want toxic people to waste less of their time on stupid chatting. 2) I see low value in chat, in my case, it distracts me way more than brings useful information. I assure you they will still waste their time haha. Reading is like breathing. You can pretty much do it without thinking. I don't see low value in summoner timings, jungler position, ward locations, or objective control at all. Those are vital to success in game. > Please refer me where I claimed my non-toxic mentality. -------------------------------------------------- > I don't gag order anybody, I use ear plugs. It is absolutely not toxic. That's all. I have never advocated for arguing with toxic players. You are assuming they are toxic before even acknowledging their existence. Again, as percentages go, you've probably got the upper hand here. When I said you use chat restriction as a preemptive measure against yourself not others, this line is what I was referring to: > I just can't hold my aggression towards such behavior Then mute all, it is the better alternative. As you say, the developers included it for a reason. > Not sure what you found in that post ? Yes, I mostly win my lane, but yet sometimes lose ? Not sure what you wanted to tell me here. It is more of an issue with macro, nothing about fullmute mentality. The "i won lane, you all succ" mentality is just largely disappointing in this community, that's all. I remember seeing a post from a guy who was like "I WIN LANE EVERY FUCKING GAME ON JAYCE AND MY TEAM ALWAYS SUCKS" when he didn't realize jayce literally won almost every lane matchup by default pre nerfs. Macro largely involves communication through pings or simple messages like "drag after re" or "push bot so we can baron" if you have fullmuted, you are useless to your team in macro conceptually, though in practice few games come down to this wire.
: The problem isn't being on an unpopular side, it's being on a side that makes zero sense. Just because one champ can do something, doesn't mean every champ with a slightly similar or full on similar ability should be able to do it just on the basis of "Hey shen can do it, so let's put it on every single character" especially when a sion ult, a Galio taunt, and a malphite ult work completely differently from each other.
so why are you arguing that galio should have flash taunt when I've displayed numerous reasons that it's bad design, and you used the viewpoint that other champions have the same ability to do so? you've literally kneecapped yourself with this cyclical argument. > [{quoted}](name=GhostofBacon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2cLnsQX6,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-08-23T18:07:52.454+0000) > Shen is still taunting, Grag is still slamming, ect. Should Wukong not be able to flash with his ult because YOU don't know if he'll flash or not? No. That's dumb.
Frısk (EUW)
: Changes to Eternals
"This was such a huge undertaking you guys, we're sorry." "Sorry." "We're sorry." {{sticker:galio-happy}} "We're sorry."
: So if we aren't looking at thing in a vacuum, Galio's Taunt needs to be charged and if not is smaller than Lissandra w, slows him down and can be reduced by tenacity . If he is not close he has to use his piss poor excuse of an engagement tool which is twice as short as Lissandra's. His ulti requires a teammate so he can't even do the job of engaging himself so why not use another tank like Gragas, Ali, Leo, ect who don't have all these downsides for virtually no upsides? But yes, tell me more about why he shouldn't be able to use a 5 minute cooldown to engage because you can't keep track of it or are out of position
Maybe I'm "wrong" - I know I'm on the unpopular side of this Flash Favoritism topic - gragas can E flash, but not Ornn? My opinion is prevent all such singular dashes and channel abilities the capacity to be flashed during but that's just me and it's never going to happen. If not, then yes, we ought to give all champions such capacity, ornn, galio, sion, shit why not flash during malphite ult dude seems totally fair.
: I love how you compared a channel that locks you in place, to a channel that allows you to move. There is probably a reason that Riot decided to lock his Q in place over someone like Darius don't you think? Massive compared to other CC's in the game? Really? Have you seen other CC's in the game? Even not including Ultimates? Plus Galio's needs to be charged before it even gets that big. Some are you know, instant? And while Galios can't be missed, it relies completely on your team following up and helping. If they don't you run the risk of looking like a total idiot. Finally, Lissandra's engage doesen't have half the cc of Galio? THAT is your claim? Really. I'm sure someone else will call it out but that is flat out untrue.
I've seen lots of other things - Amumu & Sona ults for example, are ULTIMATES. This is a basic skill, and the diameter - not the radius - is what you want to be thinking about. You can hit the backline AND frontline with ease. It leaves no room for interpretation. It's just too easy to do. Lissandra W is smaller and only prevents movement, not action. Her ult is a single target CC like Galio's E, but is reduced by tenacity whereas his is not (making them about the same duration). The difference between no movement and no action is gigantic.
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ihateyouallmuted

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