Rioter Comments
qwerts (NA)
: Patch 9.14
Swain changes are buffs. He's a close-range battlemage that doesn't need to play a minigame to have access to his ult, and he actually has mana sustain. The stacking health lets him turn into an unkillable late game monster. Morde needed a nerf. Would have preferred they do something more interesting like change his total magic pen to **bonus** magic pen (so he doesn't make squishy things squishier, he's just harder to build against). Aatrox is just the latest in many champions who have had their unique mechanics taken away because they're difficult to balance at the pro level, and the devs think that we'd rather have stronger champions than unique champions. I don't know where they got that idea.
Kuma888 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=vlrmvfza,comment-id=000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T23:32:23.986+0000) > > If you want to take full advantage of the new AP scalings and get better damage than before, then yes, you need to build AP. The changes are only a nerf if you're stubborn and continue to build AD items. They're a buff for AP builds. > > Akali's primary build path is Gunblade -> Lich Bane -> Sorc Boots -> Zhonya's -> Void Staff. How is that not an AP assassin? > > Sure, she had the OPTION of building AD bruiser items, but that makes her hard to balance at the pro level. Lane flexibility creates draft issues. The buffs to her AP scalings and her MR have made it very clear that the devs want her mid, not top, and they want her to build AP, not AD. So she can no longer play top lane, has a singular build path, weaker start on gunblade build until first item completion... This is your "HUGE DAMAGE Buff" get real... If thats the case. remove ALL her AD scaling. put it ALL into AP and then she'll be a proper AP assasin. let's see that 85% ap scaling on abilities. And no matter how you try to justify it, this is not a real buff. If a heavy nerf with a conditional mini damage buff at best - but with the caveat that it also makes her one dimensional in lane and build.
> [{quoted}](name=Kuma888,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=vlrmvfza,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T23:34:30.806+0000) > > So she can no longer play top lane, has a singular build path, weaker start on gunblade build until first item completion... This is your "HUGE DAMAGE Buff" get real... > > If thats the case. remove ALL her AD scaling. put it ALL into AP and then she'll be a proper AP assasin. > let's see that 85% ap scaling on abilities. > > And no matter how you try to justify it, this is not a real buff. > If a heavy nerf with a conditional mini damage buff at best - but with the caveat that it also makes her one dimensional in lane and build. It's not "conditional", it's a damage buff from the first item if you build AP to start. The damage is objectively and significantly higher than before unless you try to build your AD items first. You're just biased and want to be mad about it. It's a buff to her AP build, and a substantial one at that. There's really nothing more to say. You've seen the math. It's more damage, period. It's more damage for her E, more damage for her Q, more energy and longer uptime on W. This is a huge Akali buff. You're stuck on needing to be able to play her top and build bruiser items, well guess what, that's not where or how the devs want her to be played. She is a midlane AP assassin who gets extra value out of Gunblade's AD, but the scalings are too weak to justify a full AD build. If you want to be tanky with good sustained damage, you give up burst damage. She doesn't need to be viable in multiple lanes or have multiple build paths to be good. Many champions barely have one build.
Kuma888 (NA)
: So that means all Akali players must start Dark Seal in order to take advantage of this "Buff" ? One build path. thats it? Otherwise suffer damage loss until you complete your 1st mini item... I dont consider that much of a buff. And Akali is NOT an AP assasin. She is a Hybrid Assasin. Do you even play the champion? According to the LeagueGraph website - Twice as many Akali players start with longsword vs dark seal.
> [{quoted}](name=Kuma888,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=vlrmvfza,comment-id=00000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T23:24:59.936+0000) > > So that means all Akali players must start Dark Seal in order to take advantage of this "Buff" ? > One build path. thats it? Otherwise suffer damage loss until you complete for 1st mini item... I dont consider that much of a buff. > > And Akali is NOT an AP assasin. She is a Hybrid Assasin. Do you even play the champion? If you want to take full advantage of the new AP scalings and get better damage than before, then yes, you need to build AP. The changes are only a nerf if you're stubborn and continue to build AD items. They're a buff for AP builds. Akali's primary build path is Gunblade -> Lich Bane -> Sorc Boots -> Zhonya's -> Void Staff. How is that not an AP assassin? Sure, she had the OPTION of building AD bruiser items, but that makes her hard to balance at the pro level. Lane flexibility creates draft issues. The buffs to her AP scalings and her MR have made it very clear that the devs want her mid, not top, and they want her to build AP, not AD.
Kuma888 (NA)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Kuma888,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=vlrmvfza,comment-id=000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T23:05:33.637+0000) > > You must be very slow. > 70 / 105 / 140 / 175 / 210 - old scaling gave 35 dmg increase per level with 30 more base damage to start > 40 / 70 / 100 / 130 / 160 - new scaling gives 30 dmg increase per level > > 67 tAD @ level 1 + 3.5 (from ls) = 70.5 > > At player level 1 - Shuriken Flip level 1 > with 1x Long Sword > > **Old damage values** > Shuriken Poke: 70 + 7(bAD) = **77** > Dash: 50 + 7 = 57 > Total: 134 > > **New damage values** > Shuriken Poke: 40 + 29(tAD) = 69 > Dash: 40 + 29 = 69 > Total: 138 > > A gain of 4 damage at level 1 (huge damage buff... yeah right...) > Now lets look at this as we continue to build the cutlass > > Keeping in mind that Akali gains 2.5 atk damage per level > so we only gain **0.875 bonus attack damage applied to E per level - but lose 5 dmg per ability level.** > > > At player level 3 - Shuriken Flip level 2 > with 2x Long Sword > > **Old damage values** > Shuriken Poke: 105 + 14(bAD) = **119** > Dash: 80 + 14 = 94 > **Total: 213** > > **New damage values** > Shuriken Poke: 70 + 35(tAD) = 105 > Dash: 70 + 35 = 105 > **Total: 210** > > All of a sudden we're doing 3 LESS damage per combo with this new damage "Buff" > > > Lets complete the Cutlass... > > > At player level 5 - Shuriken Flip level 3 > with Bilgewater Cutlass > > **Old damage values** > Shuriken Poke: 140 + 17.5(bAD) = **157.5** > Dash: 110 + 17.5 = 127.5 > **Total: 285** > > **New damage values** > Shuriken Poke: 100 + 38(tAD) = 138 > Dash: 100 + 38 = 138 > **Total: 276** > > As you can see the damage is lower with the new rework by 9 overall at level 5 > On top of that it also greatly weakens the use of E as a means of poke damage during laning. If we were looking at only the shuriken portion of damage the difference would be 19 dmg. > > The difference in AD scaling grows if you build more of an AD path. This reduces Akali's build path like i mentioned. > > Learn to "Math'd" properly before you continue embarassing yourself. > > And so you all can clearly see, this "buff" was really just another ninja nerf at the lower levels until you build AP. > This also eliminates any potential for Akali to build AD bruiser like i mentioned. You're ignoring the AP scaling. At level 1 with Dark Seal: 40 + 22 (tAD) + 5 (AP) = 67 Total: 144 damage At level 3, Shuriken Flip Rank 2, with Dark Seal + Amp Tome (assuming no stacks) 70 + 23 (tAD) + 15 (AP) = 108 Total: 216 At level 5, Shuriken Flip Rank 3, with Dark Seal + Hextech Revolver (assuming no stacks) 100 + 25 (tAD) + 25 (AP) = 150 Total: 300 The numbers here are higher than the old build. Combined with the higher AP ratio on Q, the AP build is superior. Akali is an _AP assassin_ that builds _AP_. The main damage bonus to her new E is the fact that it got a fat AP ratio. Ignoring that completely is biased.
Detram (NA)
: Armor penetration, percentage of lethality
> [{quoted}](name=Detram,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E8EFG8Z4,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2019-07-17T18:11:30.111+0000) > > Armor penetration, percentage of lethality They're not the same. Lethality is scaling, flat armor penetration. It makes squishy things squishier, and building armor counters it. Armor penetration is percentage-based armor penetration. It's more valuable the more armor a target has. We don't have armor penetration boots because they would be busted on ADCs. You notice how MR is cheaper than armor? How AD is more expensive than AP? Champions tend to have lower base MR and MR scaling than armor and armor scaling, and magic damage is less common than physical damage. Everybody deals physical damage. Not every champion deals magic damage. Armor pen boots would need to be extremely low to be balanced, and by then, what's the point? There's plenty of anti-tank items. We don't need freakin' boots that counter tanks, too.
Rioter Comments
Kuma888 (NA)
: Do the math, The total AD gain along with the reduction to the base damage is much less than a standard gunblade with GA build all the way until level 16. At that point it has a slight gain. Overall its another ninja nerf disguised as a buff. You obviously hevent evaluated the numbers properly...
> [{quoted}](name=Kuma888,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=vlrmvfza,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-17T07:05:57.781+0000) > > Do the math, The total AD gain along with the reduction to the base damage is much less than a standard gunblade with GA build all the way until level 16. At that point it has a slight gain. Overall its another ninja nerf disguised as a buff. You obviously hevent evaluated the numbers properly... (The numbers here are assuming two adaptive shards and starting with either a Longsword or a Dark Seal, Akali's two standard starts) **Previous damage at rank 1** E1: 70 + 70% bAD E2: 50 + 70% bAD Total: 120 + 140% bAD = **~120-141** (depending on starting items) [Breakdown of stats: 5.4 AD per adaptive shard, 10 AD from the Longsword] **New rank 1 damage** E1: 40 + 35% tAD + 50% AP E2: 40 + 35% tAD + 50% AP Total: 80 + 70% tAD + 100% AP = **~140-155** (depending on starting items) [Breakdown of stats: Base AD at levels 2-3 is 64.8-67.3. If she starts Longsword, she add 10 AD plus 5.4 AD for each adaptive shard for 85.6-88.1 total AD. If she starts Dark Seal, she gets 10 AP plus 9 AP per adaptive shard.] Are you just trying to be confrontational, or are you unable to do basic math? The total AD ratio plus the huge AP scaling more than make up for the reduction in base damage. But just for fun, let's compare what Akali's E damage is at level 10, with only a {{item:3146}}. And for the sake of evenness, she's maxing E second in both cases, so it's rank 3. **Before** E1: 140 + 70% bAD E2: 110 + 70% bAD Total: 250 + 140% bAD = **306** [Breakdown of stats: 40 AD from Gunblade] **Now** E1: 100 + 35% tAD + 50% AP E2: 100 + 35% tAD + 50% AP Total: 200 + 70% tAD + 100% AP = **387.53** [Breakdown of stats: Base AD at level 10 is 87.9, plus 40 from Gunblade for 127.9 total AD. 80 AP from Gunblade, plus 9 AP for each adaptive shard.] Get math'd.
TyRamos (NA)
: Unless you play him exclusively jungle, and now your clears blow.
> [{quoted}](name=TyRamos,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=vlrmvfza,comment-id=000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T06:03:34.414+0000) > > Unless you play him exclusively jungle, and now your clears blow. Yeah, it does suck for Jungle Sylas players, but not much you can do about that. Squad5 said that they are purposefully buffing mid and nerfing his other lanes. They want him mid.
TyRamos (NA)
: All they had to do is make the shield a normal shield for monsters, or make his healing buffed against monsters and he'd stay fine in the jungle. His jungle is his worst role, it should be the easiest to buff with just numbers against monsters that doesn't effect lanes.
> [{quoted}](name=TyRamos,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=vlrmvfza,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T05:30:56.489+0000) > > All they had to do is make the shield a normal shield for monsters, or make his healing buffed against monsters and he'd stay fine in the jungle. His jungle is his worst role, it should be the easiest to buff with just numbers against monsters that doesn't effect lanes. It's not just about affecting the balance of his other lanes, it's the fact that he can't be picked against in multiple lanes. This is mostly a pro-play issue. If the enemy sees you pick Sylas, they can't tell what lane you're going to be in, so as the picks and bans play out, the Sylas player on a pro team can flex to a different lane depending on the matchups, putting the enemy in a bad spot unless they lock all of their picks to be good against both Sylas and the other potential laners. Regardless, full immunity to magic damage for 2 seconds instead of a shield is a spicy addition to his kit. He'll be able to facetank things like Lux's Final Spark and come away unscathed.
: Annie rework ideas
I think Annie needs an Ezreal-tier VGU, at most. New model, improved visuals, maybe a spell or two reworked while the rest of her abilities get a balance pass. Annie is solid, and it's fine to have simpler, beginner champions in the game, but no champion should be so simple that their entire play pattern can be boiled down to a flowchart, and their only means of making plays is with Flash. If they make her look just like her appearance in her cinematic, complete with oil-painting like flames, that would be spectacular.
: What time does the new patch go live?
3:00 am PT for NA, 5:00 UK time for EUW, and 3:00 CET for EUNE. From the time of my post, roughly 5 hours.
: What are you're thoughts on Akali right now?
The PBE changes are overall a huge buff. She loses her true stealth and her ult cooldown is back to what it used to be. However, her Q does more damage, her E got a massive boost in damage, her shroud has a shorter cooldown early, her energy economy is much more consistent, and she's overall just tankier. At level 3, Akali's Q's each cost 100 energy, and her E costs 30 energy. Since her bar is 200 energy, she can only throw out two Q's before she runs dry. Her passive autos give her 10 energy at that level, and she regains 10 energy per second passively. Right now, she also gets 40 energy when she activates her shroud. In 9.14, that will be doubling to 80 energy. So, before, Akali's combo was Q(100)-aa(110)-Q(15)-aa(25)-W(70). At that point, she'd need to wait ~3 seconds to get enough energy for a third Q, or she could use her E. Alternatively, if she opens with E, she'd need to either wait an additional 3 seconds to get the energy back before engaging with the E2 (giving them time to walk to a better position), or wait an extra 2 seconds between the first Q and the second. In short, she can't use her whole kit without waiting for energy at that level. She needs more points in Q to spam it. With these changes, she can do E1(170)-E2-aa(185)-Q(85)-aa(100)-Q(0)-aa(15)-W(95)-Q(0)-aa(10). TL;DR: _She will be able to use every single ability in sequence at level 3_ for an absolutely **devastating** all-in, with three Q's instead of the old two and no downtime between abilities and autos. Not only that, but her damage is also getting a buff. A skilled Akali will be able to delete people. The added kill pressure from more damage and energy efficiency is extremely worth losing the true stealth.
: 20 Seconds Is WAY too long for Pyke To Hold His Resets
If Pyke proves too strong after these changes, I think this would be a fair nerf. Maybe not as low as 3-5 seconds, but 10 seconds seems very fair to both him and his opponents.
: Ornn skin when?
My fingers are crossed for Star Guardian Ornn
Kuma888 (NA)
: > You consider a 20% increase in cooldown time on your ult a "Small Increase" Thats crazy. This is yet another major nerf in a endless string of Akali nerfs. Even the E damage increase is not an actual buff with reduced base damage as well as the elimination of any potential AD build options, now she only has an AP build path as the bonus AD scaling from her E is also gutted along with Ult Cool Down, Shrouds effectiveness and cooldown. Honestly - why not just refund everyones RP for skins on this champion and remove it completely.
> [{quoted}](name=Kuma888,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=vlrmvfza,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T01:01:41.348+0000) > > You consider a 20% increase in cooldown time on your ult a "Small Increase" Thats crazy. This is yet another major nerf in a endless string of Akali nerfs. Even the E damage increase is not an actual buff with reduced base damage as well as the elimination of any potential AD build options, now she only has an AP build path as the bonus AD scaling from her E is also gutted along with Ult Cool Down, Shrouds effectiveness and cooldown. Honestly - why not just refund everyones RP for skins on this champion and remove it completely. It's what her ult cooldown was before they buffed it to try to make up for one of their many guttings. Akali will be perfectly functional with the revert. Her E doesn't have a bonus AD ratio anymore, it's a _total_ AD ratio now. Not only does it scale with AD items, but also with Akali's level, and gets a good chunk of additional base damage from that scaling. Max E second, and her damage will be much higher than before. It's a massive buff to the ability. AD Akali builds have traditionally been problematic anyway, since they're not AD assassin builds, they're AD bruiser builds. Her AP build is gonna deal buckets of damage now. Shroud's cooldown got buffed in the early game, and nerfed in the late game. She has it more often and more consistently when she needs it to get ahead, but her late game will be slightly less safe. Since she'll now be maxing Shroud last, it's really not that big of a deal. Akali's changes give her more damage, more consistency, and more energy. These changes are huge buffs overall.
TyRamos (NA)
: Jungle Sylas got nerfed pretty badly.
> [{quoted}](name=TyRamos,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=vlrmvfza,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-07-16T19:50:25.333+0000) > > Jungle Sylas got nerfed pretty badly. Yeah, but the devs said they were okay with that. Trying to keep him viable mid, top, AND jungle was a challenge, and the flexibility made him hard to pick into at the pro level. He could just swap to a different lane whenever the matchup was bad. Most of the playerbase plays him mid, so they focused on that.
HiPug (NA)
: Fantastic changes for Akali.. you must not play her to know what any of those changes mean
> [{quoted}](name=HiPug,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=vlrmvfza,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T18:31:59.788+0000) > > Fantastic changes for Akali.. you must not play her to know what any of those changes mean They're absolutely a buff overall. More Q damage, a LOT more E damage, more shroud uptime, more energy early on, and considerably tankier, all at the cost of true stealth (which people have been begging to get removed for months so that power budget can be spent elsewhere) and a small increase to her ult cooldown (basically reverting a buff they gave her after one of the several times they gutted her). She'll have more damage at all stages of the game, longer trades with the increased energy regen, and will have her shroud available more often. Before, her early game ideal trade was Q-aa-Q-aa, and she wouldn't have enough energy to immediately Q again, even after using W. She'd need to wait a moment for her energy to regen, and then she's totally spent. She can't use her E during this combo without sacrificing a Q or waiting even longer in the shroud, giving her enemy time to disengage. Now, she can E1-E2-aa-Q-aa-Q-aa-W-Q-aa. All in a row. At level 3. Before, she'd more points in her Q to have the energy efficiency to pull that kind of all-in off.
: rip akali.. We will remember you..
> [{quoted}](name=BlueAirplane,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=vlrmvfza,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-16T18:18:25.458+0000) > > rip akali.. We will remember you.. These changes are overall buffs for Akali. She can be revealed in her shroud and her ult cooldown is longer, but her shroud has more uptime, she gets a huge boost in damage, and she has more energy to work with in the early game. If the enemy doesn't have a spell that reveals people, her shroud is the same as before but on a shorter cooldown and she has more damage.
: Patch 9.14 notes
Solid patch. I don't think there's a change in there I don't like. Fantastic changes for Akali, Swain, Sylas, and Tahm Kench. Tomorrow can't come soon enough!
Rioter Comments
: Remember when Kalista was a champion?
Wasn't Kalista that beta champion that got shipped to live accidentally?
: > [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=uoH01HYV,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T17:12:56.942+0000) > > 3% is huge in terms of average winrate, especially if it's consistent across all levels of play. Sub-40% winrates are usually only newly released champions that are very difficult or need some tuning. Yes that is true, but you still haven't addressed the other problems he causes. Like the easy advantages he can get in lane and his dmg output.
> [{quoted}](name=Falldrake481481,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=uoH01HYV,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T17:33:19.466+0000) > > Yes that is true, but you still haven't addressed the other problems he causes. Like the easy advantages he can get in lane and his dmg output. Early game strength is kinda his thing. He's a bully. His level 2 all-in is very strong, but he has one of the lowest ranges of any marksman. Only Graves is shorter. If you can survive his laning phase, he's useless later in the game. Even if he does well, he falls off in the late game. Virtually every other marksman outranges and outscales him. He's really not a problem, and honestly could use a buff.
CD8 (NA)
: Can we have chromas for Project Irelia instead?
Prestige skins also have slightly different models and new particle effects. Prestige PROJECT: Irelia doesn't have a visor and her hood is down, and her blades are more complex. It's a different skin, not just a chroma.
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=uoH01HYV,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T08:00:44.693+0000) > > [Is that why he's at 47% winrate in pretty much every major ELO?](https://m.u.gg/lol/champions/lucian/build) > > Enough said. 47% is 3% off of 50%. So he is close to being a 50/50 champ. Plus he's the same at every elo? That's pretty dang good, but then again that's just the average, he almost gets a 50% winrate in higher elos. He only gets as low as 45% in Iron. Even then that doesn't include other members of his team that might be doing terrible or inting. All it takes is one bad fight to turn a game around and lose the game. Which also means you missed out on his dmg output, his cs leads, and how many times he may have sent the enemy adc or support back to base without killing them. Those aren't even counted for his winrate, or are even a factor.
> [{quoted}](name=Falldrake481481,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=uoH01HYV,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T17:10:20.498+0000) > > 47% is 3% off of 50%. So he is close to being a 50/50 champ. Plus he's the same at every elo? That's pretty dang good, but then again that's just the average, he almost gets a 50% winrate in higher elos. He only gets as low as 45% in Iron. Even then that doesn't include other members of his team that might be doing terrible or inting. All it takes is one bad fight to turn a game around and lose the game. Which also means you missed out on his dmg output, his cs leads, and how many times he may have sent the enemy adc or support back to base without killing them. Those aren't even counted for his winrate, or are even a factor. 3% is huge in terms of average winrate, especially if it's consistent across all levels of play. Sub-40% winrates are usually only newly released champions that are very difficult or need some tuning.
: Who and what would you change from a champ if you could?
Rework Kindred so that they are actually a pair. Wolf is a glorified particle effect, not an equal half to Lamb. Either change them into being a transforming champ like Elise or Jayce, able to swap between Wolf and Lamb for different abilities, or make Wolf into a pet so the player can control both Wolf and Lamb simultaneously.
: Any champs that you just can't play against no matter what?
I hate Tristana. She's so frustrating to lane against. She just hits you with her bomb and auto-wins trades, and her ability to get super-aggressive for all-ins and get out means if you screw up even a little bit, she gets fed. She can push her advantage super hard and easily shoves you under tower, waiting for her moment to all-in you.
: How has Kassadin not been considered for a PROJECT skin yet?
I think Kassadin should be up for a minor VGU, like Ezreal and Morgana got, or maybe just a VU. His model is definitely dated. His gameplay is alright, maybe give a few of his abilities a facelift, but visually, he could use improvement.
Kimimi (EUNE)
: Who do you think are getting this year's Star Guardian skins?
{{champion:201}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:4}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:50}}
: pyke skins ... and abilities while im here
His E doesn't damage minions anymore. That's intentional. They nerfed his waveclear to give him a clearer weakness botlane and remove him from other lanes while buffing his damage and W speed.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: Can we add some counterplay to Yuumi's Q?
Minions block it, and if you can juke it once, it's hard for her to turn it back around for a second pass. Move in a straight line, perpendicular to the projectile, and once she starts to turn it towards you, go the opposite way.
: What's wrong with Brand and Velkoz support???
> [{quoted}](name=Gank bot or lose,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=B6g5jEXP,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-07-15T22:34:02.962+0000) > > What's wrong with Brand and Velkoz support??? Mechanically, nothing, the poke and zoning of a burst mage is very valuable in the botlane. It's just that a lot of people who play these champions as a support are doing it because they got autofilled and just want to try to carry rather than play as a support.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xHg6oMfO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-14T17:58:36.491+0000) > > Absolutely, it looks amazing. > > But he also got a skin six months ago despite being released fourteen months ago. > > He's getting another skin, meanwhile Ornn and Taliyah have yet to get their first skin after their release that isn't e-Sports related (those don't count, since it's the team that chose to put them into production, not the devs). > > He's getting another skin before Kled, Aurelion Sol, Kalista, Kindred, Rek'Sai, Ivern, and Illaoi get their second post-release skin. But, all of those champions have skins that aren't esports related that didn't come out on release?
> [{quoted}](name=NO TOASTIES REEE,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xHg6oMfO,comment-id=00020003,timestamp=2019-07-15T19:23:40.117+0000) > > But, all of those champions have skins that aren't esports related that didn't come out on release? Taliyah and Ornn don't. The rest have one skin. Pyke will be getting his second, despite being months newer, or in some cases years newer, than those champions.
: Wouldn't Project Talon or Kayn fit better than Akali or irelia?
Kayn is a tough champion to make skins for, since the team needs to make three separate models, each with different ability effects. Plus, he got a legendary in Odyssey. Talon would have been a good choice, people have been asking for PROJECT: Talon for a while now. The problem is that he isn't terribly popular. That said, Akali and Irelia aren't _bad_ choices. They're both human champions with a strong emphasis on their weapons. The problem is that Talon isn't a terribly popular champion. Akali is getting big buffs in 9.14, and they're looking to make some adjustments to Irelia in 9.15. They are popular champs with incoming balance changes, so they're just on the dev's mind and they're looking to make money off of them.
Xavanic (NA)
: Holy shit, a project skin im stoked to see
Warwick IS a human champ. He's just heavily modified by experimentation. In the PROJECT universe, he's totally human, just with a wolf-like suit. This is still really exciting, since it opens up PROJECT to champs like {{champion:12}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:120}}{{champion:58}}{{champion:107}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:6}} i.e., champs who were not quite human enough, but could realistically be a human in a mecha suit
Leetri (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xHg6oMfO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-14T17:58:36.491+0000) > > Absolutely, it looks amazing. > > But he also got a skin six months ago despite being released fourteen months ago. > > He's getting another skin, meanwhile Ornn and Taliyah have yet to get their first skin after their release that isn't e-Sports related (those don't count, since it's the team that chose to put them into production, not the devs). > > He's getting another skin before Kled, Aurelion Sol, Kalista, Kindred, Rek'Sai, Ivern, and Illaoi get their second post-release skin. Pyke is as popular as all those 7 champions put together, there's your answer. He sells WAY better than Aurelion Sol or Rek'Sai ever will, and companies usually don't want to make products that straight up loses them money. Even if they made the best possible Aurelion Sol skin imaginable and literally every single Aurelion Sol player bought it, it'd still only be equal to if 4-5% of all Pyke players bought a new Pyke skin.
> [{quoted}](name=Leetri,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xHg6oMfO,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2019-07-15T13:41:00.795+0000) > > Pyke is as popular as all those 7 champions put together, there's your answer. He sells WAY better than Aurelion Sol or Rek'Sai ever will, and companies usually don't want to make products that straight up loses them money. Even if they made the best possible Aurelion Sol skin imaginable and literally every single Aurelion Sol player bought it, it'd still only be equal to if 4-5% of all Pyke players bought a new Pyke skin. In the short term, yeah, they'd make a lot less money off an ASol skin than a Pyke skin. However, in the long run, I think they will lose money by leaving players that play off-meta and unpopular champions jaded against buying content. When somebody can justify doing something, it's much easier to justify doing it again. It's basic psychology. If somebody has invested money into League, they are more likely to continue investing money than somebody who has not. By dashing the hopes of not just ASol players, but all players for "forgotten" champions, that's a huge amount of people who are now put off from investing more money into League. Catering only to popular champions tells people that there's no point in spending their money, their champions will never get a skin because they're not popular, so they are less likely to buy into things like event passes. I'm not saying that the devs should stop making skins for popular champions, that just wouldn't be cost effective. But every event skin shouldn't be popular champions. Sprinkle in some unpopular champions to show good faith and at least give people the hope that their champion could be up for a skin. That hope would keep more people engaged in League.
: When does the next patch come out?
https://twitter.com/MarkYetter/status/1149005381839966208 This patch was a 3-week cycle due to the size and some scheduling issues. If things go as planned, it should be here sometime this upcoming week.
Kenneky (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EQ73kLtj,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-07-15T00:03:13.521+0000) > > People were upset over Dunkmaster Ivern because he didn't deserve a skin so bad as his first. He was forgotten for so long that the meme of him being forgotten by the skin team was recognized by the skin team in the dev update. > > But the skin that he got was awful. Seriously, a basketball player? The only thing Ivern has to do with dunking is that he has long legs. He doesn't dunk anything, he's a jungler support. > > They could have gone with: > > Papercraft > Battle Academia (which came out right after Dunkmaster. He could have easily been a kooky guidance counselor or something) > Arcade > Definitely Not > Dragon Trainer > Elderwood > Odyssey > Omega Squad > Super Galaxy > > But they chose something ill-fitting and terrible for Ivern's first, long-awaited skin. > > Like I said, making skins for only popular champions makes more money in the short term, but in the long run, it alienates all the people who play unpopular champions and makes them less invested in the game as a whole. Just because you do not like the skin doesn't mean other people don't like it. I think It's a great skin, It reminds me of Wilt from Foster's house for imaginary friends. But "It DoEsn'T fIt IvErN sO iT's A bAd SkIn" by that logic PROJECT: Syndra doesn't fit in the skin line as well, since she doesn't use a gun.
> [{quoted}](name=Kenneky,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EQ73kLtj,comment-id=000b00000001,timestamp=2019-07-15T05:43:53.246+0000) > > Just because you do not like the skin doesn't mean other people don't like it. I think It's a great skin, It reminds me of Wilt from Foster's house for imaginary friends. But "It DoEsn'T fIt IvErN sO iT's A bAd SkIn" by that logic PROJECT: Syndra doesn't fit in the skin line as well, since she doesn't use a gun. Neither do Vi, Master Yi, Leona, Yasuo, Fiora, Ashe, Ekko, Zed, Katarina, Akali, Irelia, or Pyke. PROJECT isn't about guns, it's about weapons. Syndra's orbs could have easily been interpreted as tech weapons. She uses them like weapons, battering her enemies with them. It's a bit of a stretch, but certainly within the realm of possibility. Besides, this post was not about PROJECT: Syndra specifically, it was pointing out how unpopular champions don't get skins. When I saw the trailer, I thought Irelia was Syndra due to the floating devices around her, and was momentarily proud of the skin team for taking that sort of a risk to include a non-popular champion in an event skin line. I was mistaken.
: > [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EQ73kLtj,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-07-15T00:03:13.521+0000) > > People were upset over Dunkmaster Ivern because he didn't deserve a skin so bad as his first. He was forgotten for so long that the meme of him being forgotten by the skin team was recognized by the skin team in the dev update. > > But the skin that he got was awful. Seriously, a basketball player? The only thing Ivern has to do with dunking is that he has long legs. He doesn't dunk anything, he's a jungler support. > > They could have gone with: > > Papercraft > Battle Academia (which came out right after Dunkmaster. He could have easily been a kooky guidance counselor or something) > Arcade > Definitely Not > Dragon Trainer > Elderwood > Odyssey > Omega Squad > Super Galaxy > > But they chose something ill-fitting and terrible for Ivern's first, long-awaited skin. > > Like I said, making skins for only popular champions makes more money in the short term, but in the long run, it alienates all the people who play unpopular champions and makes them less invested in the game as a whole. I understand not wanting a bad skin (or something perceived as a bad skin) after years of waiting, but you should also notice Riot **does** make skins for unpopular champions. It's just nobody except those champion's players care or notice. Shaco and Karma both got nice Dark Star skins recently, and nobody cares because nobody plays those champions. Warwick's getting his 2nd post update skin (and 2nd skin in 4 years), but nobody is making posts or caring. Face it, people **including you** don't actually care about Riot making skins for "unpopular champions". They care about Riot making skins for their champion(s). Hell, this thread is perfect proof: it's complaining about Syndra not getting a skin in a completely unrelated skinline with clearly defined rules she does not fit when she hasn't even gone 2 years since her last skin (which was also a high quality skin). Not complaints about any of the other champions that DO fit the rules (such as Quinn or Talon or with the new rules and Warwick things like Renekton), but a complaint that your champion didn't get the skin.
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EQ73kLtj,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2019-07-15T00:28:25.481+0000) > > I understand not wanting a bad skin (or something perceived as a bad skin) after years of waiting, but you should also notice Riot **does** make skins for unpopular champions. It's just nobody except those champion's players care or notice. Shaco and Karma both got nice Dark Star skins recently, and nobody cares because nobody plays those champions. Warwick's getting his 2nd post update skin (and 2nd skin in 4 years), but nobody is making posts or caring. > > Face it, people **including you** don't actually care about Riot making skins for "unpopular champions". They care about Riot making skins for their champion(s). Hell, this thread is perfect proof: it's complaining about Syndra not getting a skin in a completely unrelated skinline with clearly defined rules she does not fit when she hasn't even gone 2 years since her last skin (which was also a high quality skin). Not complaints about any of the other champions that DO fit the rules (such as Quinn or Talon or with the new rules and Warwick things like Renekton), but a complaint that your champion didn't get the skin. I don't play Syndra. Don't even own the champion. I saw the three floating things around Irelia and mistook her for Syndra. It could have been spun as a tech thing, and her orbs are certainly her "weapon" that her whole kit revolves around. It really wasn't a stretch. Warwick hasn't been confirmed, and if he's in it, awesome. Shaco and Karma got nice skins as well, but they weren't part of an event. There was no hype or trailer about them. They just kinda got added and that was that. It's a lot different to get included in an actual event, to have hype and a get a trailer. I understand that unpopular champions are going to get less skins simply by the nature of business, but the discrepancy between popular and unpopular is too great. Unpopular champions get skins only rarely, and events are dominated by popular picks. Pyke didn't need another skin, he just got one six months ago and he's only just a bit over a year old. Jinx just got Odyssey last year. K/DA Akali wasn't that long ago. Draven, Gangplank, Tryndamere, Olaf, Jarvan, Pantheon, Quinn, Sejuani, Sivir, Sylas, Talon, or Varus would have been fine choices instead of them.
ytf (NA)
: The State of Akali
Akali should be a champion that has an overall low winrate, since she requires a lot of skill to play, but they've nerfed her over and over again due to her dominance in pro play. She was pick/ban for a good while because of how good she was in that environment. She's got a bunch of good changes coming in the next patch. They've finally taken away the true stealth and put that power budget someplace that actually matters to players that aren't pro. She's got more damage, more uptime on her shroud, and better energy recovery early on.
Kenneky (EUW)
: Every time Riot released a skin for unpopular champion (Dunkmaster Ivern is one example), you people cry about it. Riot somehow have to make money, and the best way to do is, you guess It, by releasing skins for popular champions. It's not Riot's favoritism, it's the community that loves and play those champions to begin with. I'm so sick of this "Riot's favoritism" false bullshit. I do want a new Quinn skin, but she is not popular enough unfortunately.
> [{quoted}](name=Kenneky,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EQ73kLtj,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-07-14T23:47:45.486+0000) > > Every time Riot released a skin for unpopular champion (Dunkmaster Ivern is one example), you people cry about it. Riot somehow have to make money, and the best way to do is, you guess It, by releasing skins for popular champions. It's not Riot's favoritism, it's the community that loves and play those champions to begin with. > I'm so sick of this "Riot's favoritism" false bullshit. I do want a new Quinn skin, but she is not popular enough unfortunately. People were upset over Dunkmaster Ivern because he didn't deserve a skin so bad as his first. He was forgotten for so long that the meme of him being forgotten by the skin team was recognized by the skin team in the dev update. But the skin that he got was awful. Seriously, a basketball player? The only thing Ivern has to do with dunking is that he has long legs. He doesn't dunk anything, he's a jungler support. They could have gone with: Papercraft Battle Academia (which came out right after Dunkmaster. He could have easily been a kooky guidance counselor or something) Arcade Definitely Not Dragon Trainer Elderwood Odyssey Omega Squad Super Galaxy But they chose something ill-fitting and terrible for Ivern's first, long-awaited skin. Like I said, making skins for only popular champions makes more money in the short term, but in the long run, it alienates all the people who play unpopular champions and makes them less invested in the game as a whole.
Mitsuk3 (EUW)
: Dude. Everyone hates hybrid champions because countering them is harder than countering Lux's Q E R combo when u're ADC
> [{quoted}](name=Mitsuk3,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aPQBiwE6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-14T23:36:17.004+0000) > > Dude. Everyone hates hybrid champions because countering them is harder than countering Lux's Q E R combo when u're ADC And that's kinda what I want to address. Hybrid champions are really hard to counter because they just do what they do. They can build whatever they feel like, even tank or bruiser items, and do pretty okay. They have the freedom to opt for cheaper item options when they're having a rough game or go for frustrating choices like Sterak's Gauge, Triforce, or Iceborn Gauntlet Splitting their kit between AD and AP would relieve some of that frustration. To continue my example, if Akali wants damage, she needs to build AP, but if she wants utility and sustain, she needs to build AP. This makes her more dependent on items (and therefore, a successful snowball) for her kit to come fully online, or she needs to sacrifice either her burst or utility and dedicate herself to that one playstyle.
Rioter Comments
HàrrowR (EUW)
: Honestly what's the point of Fleets Footwork?
Fleet Footwork is essentially extra lifesteal in lane. The healing isn't intended to be this big burst of health that keeps you alive in a trade, it just gives you more sustain, so you can get a fatter shield with Overheal or perhaps opt for Alacrity over Bloodline since your healing is covered. The main reason to take it is the movement speed. That burst of movement speed lets you go in for trades or escape from people. Kiting is everything to an ADC, and getting a free burst of movement speed every 10 seconds or so is insanely strong if you use it to your advantage. You can hit a minion, rush forward with the speed, and take a trade the enemy can't back down from, chase people down to finish off the kill, or create some space as you're stutterstepping and running away. Stutterstepping is essential to getting full value out of this rune. It charges it faster, so you get more healing and more opportunities to use the movement speed to get in range. It's great on ADCs that love short trades like Jhin, or for ADCs that have trouble setting up their own engages like Kai'Sa.
: > [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xHg6oMfO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-14T17:58:36.491+0000) > > Absolutely, it looks amazing. > > But he also got a skin six months ago despite being released fourteen months ago. > > He's getting another skin, meanwhile Ornn and Taliyah have yet to get their first skin after their release that isn't e-Sports related (those don't count, since it's the team that chose to put them into production, not the devs). > > He's getting another skin before Kled, Aurelion Sol, Kalista, Kindred, Rek'Sai, Ivern, and Illaoi get their second post-release skin. Wait,isnt count kledula a thing?
> [{quoted}](name=GelsominoKiller,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xHg6oMfO,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-07-14T20:47:59.638+0000) > > Wait,isnt count kledula a thing? It is. That list is the champions that are older than Pyke, but will have less skins than him once PROJECT rolls around. Kled has gotten one post-release skin, and he was released 2 years and eleven months ago. Pyke will be getting his second post-release skin, and he was released 1 year and two months ago.
: Do you think these will be the first PROJECT skins to get chromas?
: > [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xHg6oMfO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-14T17:58:36.491+0000) I mean, Ornn and Taliyah were never getting PORJECT skins anyway. The PROJECT skins, according to Riot, are only for humans with significant weapons. Ornn isn't a human and Taliyah doesn't have a weapon. If anything, they'd get Program skins. As for PROJECT: Warwick, a Rioter has confirmed that the lore will explain why he's there, but they also confirmed that the base requirements for the skin line aren't changing. It sucks that Pyke is getting another skin before they do, but that doesn't mean they aren't getting skins this year at all. Its still possible that Taliyah could be a Star Guardian, for example.
> [{quoted}](name=4 Step Cadence,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xHg6oMfO,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-07-14T19:19:54.354+0000) > > I mean, Ornn and Taliyah were never getting PORJECT skins anyway. The PROJECT skins, according to Riot, are only for humans with significant weapons. Ornn isn't a human and Taliyah doesn't have a weapon. If anything, they'd get Program skins. > > As for PROJECT: Warwick, a Rioter has confirmed that the lore will explain why he's there, but they also confirmed that the base requirements for the skin line aren't changing. > > It sucks that Pyke is getting another skin before they do, but that doesn't mean they aren't getting skins this year at all. Its still possible that Taliyah could be a Star Guardian, for example. If Taliyah doesn't get to be a Star Guardian, there's gonna be riots. I didn't need them to be PROJECT, specifically. It's just that Pyke is getting his second post-release skin (which is very likely the legendary) just over a year after his release, when Ornn and Taliyah have been out for roughly two years without even getting one.
Morbys (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EQ73kLtj,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-14T17:38:35.262+0000) > > I was excited that among the champions getting a skin, they decided to include even just one that isn't really popular. Then, I realized it was PROJECT: Irelia, and now I'm just disappointed. The devs told us it was their mission to get less popular champions more skins this year, but all they've proven is that the moneymakers are getting skins. > > I understand that skins are how they make money and that "wasting" dev hours on a skin for an unpopular champion isn't cost effective, but that isn't the big picture here. The devs have stated that they don't have a queue for champion skins, they go by what the creative team pitches, which means that the creative team doesn't care about these champions. They simply aren't on their mind. Their art team isn't thinking about unpopular champions, coming up with concepts that inspire the team to include them. The story team isn't looking for ways to fit unpopular champions into the lore of skinlines, creating compelling reasons to get them into production. > > This is a PR issue, not just a money issue. Yes, something like PROJECT: Syndra or PROJECT: Swain would have gotten them less cash than what they went with, but it makes the people who like unpopular champions jaded, and unlikely to invest any money in anything the devs put out. The number of people who play unpopular champions far outweighs the people who play any single popular champion that gets a skin, and that's all the people they're pushing away with these tactics. Getting people to justify buying skins is the foot in the door to getting them to buy things like event passes. It would make the devs more money in the long run to mix together popular and unpopular skins in their releases so that everybody can stay hopeful that their champion could get a skin. Where exactly did you get the stats that more people play "unpopular" champs over popular ones? You know the very definition of popular means a majority favor a certain champion. What I don't understand is why they would overload a champ with so many skins over another that barely has any. Champions are usually made popular by streamers or what pros play. Giving rise to FOTM, but a lot of champions are viable, despite how broken this current meta is. Giving skins to champs that are on the fringes of play would net them more money over burning people out on specific champions. So I tend to agree they don't make the majority of their decision based on a monetary value. I mean, they are gutting akali again in the next patch, she might have a new skin but she wont be that popular because they keep nerfing her. They are also nerfing pyke. If you want people to listen, craft a competent or compelling argument, don't just make statistics up.
> [{quoted}](name=Morbys,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EQ73kLtj,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-07-14T18:45:56.856+0000) > > Where exactly did you get the stats that more people play "unpopular" champs over popular ones? You know the very definition of popular means a majority favor a certain champion. What I don't understand is why they would overload a champ with so many skins over another that barely has any. Champions are usually made popular by streamers or what pros play. Giving rise to FOTM, but a lot of champions are viable, despite how broken this current meta is. > > Giving skins to champs that are on the fringes of play would net them more money over burning people out on specific champions. So I tend to agree they don't make the majority of their decision based on a monetary value. I mean, they are gutting akali again in the next patch, she might have a new skin but she wont be that popular because they keep nerfing her. They are also nerfing pyke. If you want people to listen, craft a competent or compelling argument, don't just make statistics up. If you can get people to justify putting money down for virtual items, they are more likely to justify it again. It's not statistics, it's psychology. People who don't spend money on the game because their champions aren't getting anything worth buying are less likely to buy into things like event passes. Giving a skin to a popular champion only get the people who play that specific champion to buy it, while simultaneously discouraging all the people who play unpopular champions from ever expecting to get a skin and getting invested in the game. Marginalizing everybody who doesn't play popular champions is unhealthy for the game's longevity. They get the cash from the players of one champion, but all the people who play forgotten champions are less and less likely to care. Akali's upcoming changes are buffs. Her shroud doesn't obscure her anymore, but she's getting nearly double the uptime on her shroud cooldown and straight-up more damage. Pyke's changes are also buffs. He can stun minions again and gets double the gold from kills with his ult, he's just punished harder for mistiming his ult. Seems like you aren't very informed.
: do you guys realize not every champ needs a project skin? especially not syndra? what are you gonna turn her balls into? junk boxes?
> [{quoted}](name=Luther King Jr V,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EQ73kLtj,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-14T18:33:14.637+0000) > > do you guys realize not every champ needs a project skin? > especially not syndra? what are you gonna turn her balls into? junk boxes? I thought the floating energy things around Irelia were Syndra orbs at first.
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iiGazeii

Level 87 (NA)
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