Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Jarnbjorn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xrxFEGka,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-01T10:34:54.377+0000) > > Enage champs like naut and thresh beat her in lane. Her biggest threat in lane is her ongoing safe af poke on you and the adc but in laneing phase her peeling and healing is really weak and punishable by all ins and once you kill the adc getting her is the easiest kill all game. Or you go a lane phase heavy bot lane such as lux and cait who can poke right back from a greater distance. Stricting speaking it's not her laning phase that is the problem it's later with how forgiving she is for her team to make mistake with her q slow ult root plus a strong heal with a speed up for chasing or disengageing I have 2 major issues with her, her shield stays on the champ until it's broken (I do not like that shit one bit no other shields do it in game why does hers?) And how you can't kill her in lane if her adc is someone with self peel. Say the enemy has Soraka, her heal costs her health and you can essentially all in the raka and take her out of the equation. With Yuumi you can't all in her and just have to focus the adc while she gets to be safe and throw out heals. At least let AOE hit her while she's attached.
I'm fine with Yuumi gaining a perma shield, but her granted ally shield should absolutely have a duration limit. The test and risk to actually give the shield to a teammate is pretty freaking slim, so the general impacy it provides should be slim as well.
Haze97 (EUW)
: Do you realize that top and mid have always had this in their lanes, but way worse because most champions there aren't even ranged? Yes you need to dodge skillshots, you need to learn wave management, and you need to learn to poke your opponents between their cooldowns. Top and mid have been doing it for ages and these are parts of the laning phase every player needs to learn. I could always get behind mages having their mana costs being nerfed even into the mid game, but it's almost as if ADC mains want to win without having to improve their skills at this game.
The difference between bot and solo lane (in this specific context), is that your opposing laner has to split their attention between harrassment and farming, while the opposing support can literally spend 100% of their focus on harrassment. The support doesnt lose any gold income if they trade during a moment when another role would normally have to give up CS for it.
: "They get screwed by CC" doesn't really hold water. What do you think happens if you stun an immobile champion like Xerath or Annie? They get blown up just as easily while they are CCed plus they are a lot easier to hit considering they lack the MS or dashes to evade skillshots. CC is a counter to pretty much every champion, not just Zed and Yasuo
Yea man. Literally every champion in this game is "Weak vs. CC" unless they are a mega tank
: If we had a grounding ability that didn't have a slow attached and didn't just activate in a set area like Cass and Singed, then it'd be better vs mobility than immobility because movement speed buffs would be unaffected.
We need more abilities like Poppy's anti-dashing aura. You can still flash or ghost out of it.
: Riot is one of the most successful gaming companies in the world. If their game is ACTUALLY bad, people shouldn't be playing it. People just have infinitely high standards.
Riot benefits from having no serious competition, so of course people are going to play it. LoL is basically the only game in town, unless you want to play DOTA. If there were other comparable MOBAs on the market, Riot would actually have to pay more attention to their customers, but for now, they can get away with doing whatever they want. Like players will complain for months about a busted ass champion, like Riven was earlier this season. And Riot will say all day that Riven was totally in line, or that it was "regional perception," or whatever. And then when they finally nerf her, they dont even have the class to admit honestly that the community was right in the first place. And that it was some new metric that finally pushed her over the edge. The worst offenses of this kind were the ardent censer meta, which lasted way too long, and this burst meta we are in, which is going on what, almost a year now? So yea they can tell us all to eat shit, but what other moba would we actually switch to? The situation SUCKS.
wolvius (EUW)
: https://youtu.be/Bu7-mkju7nI Fascinating gameplay with unbelievably fair counterplay, 80% slow by the way. Why can't riot stop making stupid gimmicks and start making proper champs again. ######well at least aatrox + yuumi has been nerfed that schist was unfair.
I feel pretty cheated as a support player. The last couple of support releases have had their kit or theme based around some stupid gimmick instead of the badass overloaded kits they keep releasing for other roles. Like how can you release crazy intricate champions over and over again like Irelia, Akali, Yasuo, etc. and then turn around and hand over some overly-simplistic mechanics like Yuumi over to support players? It's like Riot doesn't think an Enchanter with an overloaded kit should exist.
nelogis (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XsM8jHxp,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-21T07:58:08.969+0000) > > No one complained about old Akali because she didn't get played, and when she did, people realized how cancer a "have the stats to survive my level six or die" no counterplay champion she was. You know what the funny part is? She was easier to deal with in that state than she is now. Maybe "just have more stats" is actually healthier than "I have 13 dashes and can go invisible for 10 seconds but I'm skillshot oriented so it's fine lmao just dodge" Back then you had to get a Hexdrinker and boom done or a Negatron when you were a mage, boom done. Now? If she is remotely viable just ban her because there is nothing else to do, what an improvement.
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XsM8jHxp,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-21T08:20:16.254+0000) > > You know what the funny part is? > > She was easier to deal with in that state than she is now. > Maybe "just have more stats" is actually healthier than "I have 13 dashes and can go invisible for 10 seconds but I'm skillshot oriented so it's fine lmao just dodge" > > Back then you had to get a Hexdrinker and boom done or a Negatron when you were a mage, boom done. > Now? If she is remotely viable just ban her because there is nothing else to do, what an improvement. Not to mention that you could actually use a pink ward to counter her shroud before. Because god forbid we don't have a game with ninja-speed champions that are harder to see than the fucking Predator.
: I Think I Finally Understand What it takes to Climb
What it takes to climb is a change in your current mentality and your level of game knowledge. Thats literally it.
: Opinion: "fun to play against" is the most bullshit term to ever exist
"Fun to play against" is not really a bullshit term. Its about as descriptive as "fair to play against" is. You might feel like you dont have fun playing against certain champs that you lose to, but thats not the case for everyone. I personally had fun playing against champions like Zed or Lee Sun or anyone with a skill-demanding play pattern. They have very clear windows when they can pull off some fancy moves, and you have to prepare for that and respond accordingly. Skill matchups are some of the most fun things that can occur in this game. When a match feels fair, then it feels fun too. U less you are the type of person who is incapable of having fun unless you are always coming out the winner. The problem isnt feeling like you got outplayed. Feeling like someone outskilled you creates a sense of competition and desire to improve. The problem is when you feel like you got killed because of stats. If damage wasnt so goddam high, and skill champs required actual skill to kill people, it wouldnt feel so bad dying to them. But when the match gets into a state where the opposing Irelia has over 3500 hp and is just one shotting me and/or my ADC after dashing around the battlefield nonstop, thats where the outplay feeling ends, as well as the fun I'm having.
: I am of the opinion that we need even more gimmicks for power scaling purposes. As a bard main, I love the fact that I can rely on an additional power source that is not dependent on my adc and rewards me for pursuing it. Supports have always had a problem with how much of their power budget and income is tied to non-skill expressive tasks. They can´t farm and support items are subpar due to them being passive gold generators and the way I see it, you can either: - not allow them to have a decent income ( only CC, low mana costs, high base dmg ---> static power budget) - give a decent income for basically free ( still no skill expression income wise ) - add a gimmick to the supports for their unique playstyle so they can have an income in an unconventional way that is still skill-expressive I find that if I play well, the game should reflect that, otherwise you end up with champs like rakan where all your power is in your W-R combo and it doesn´t really matter what you are doing outside of that. These static power budgets are a giant crutch on one hand since you can never fall truly behind, but are also a major drawback on the other hand since you can never get truly ahead as well. I believe that this "my champ always plays the same no matter how well I perform"-syndrome is one of the major reasons why only very few players enjoy this role no matter how much of an impact the role has on the game in general. With that being said, Pyke seemed to me like a step in the right direction by filling the void of flashy, dmg oriented, mobile champs in the support role, while also providing an alternative method to accumulate additional gold. I can understand why pyke is so frustrating, but when criticizing pyke, I would rather talk about the different parts of the kit that don´t work or work too well or how his gold sharing is too accessible than to simply declare that these things shouldn´t be part of a supports kit and can never be balanced. laners have lanes jglers have the jgl supports should have gimmicks
Those are fair points. I'll go ahead and admit that I have bias against Pyke because I've been praying and posting that the support role needed that flash, but for an Enchanter, rather than an untested assassin concept like Pyke. I would fucking kill to see an enchanter enter the game that was as much of a legit one trick champion like Yasuo, Irelia, or Gangplank. We have Thresh filling that niche as en engage support, so I would love to see that reflected in the enchanter class as well. But instead, we got Pyke, who has some similar play patterns as Thresh. My argument is that supports should have at least a few champs in each class that feature kits with similar use that they give to everyone else. Irelia, Qiyana, Fiora, and Jax all have some form of: - Mobility - Damage - Crowd Control - Defense They have no gimmicks. They just work out of the box and arent overly reliant on some weird mechanic that nobody else has. It doesnt make sense that supports arent being built the same way. Nami and Sona are perfectly good examples of being high impact, without relying on a gimmick. I dont mind that gimmck supports exist, I'm just wanting Riot to move on from that design approach, and start introducing more supports that are just designed with more skill expression in mind, rather than trying everything into some cheesy play pattern. I think that if supports were given different areas of skill expression around core things like CC, status ailments, countering mobility / stealth, etc. it would open up a lot of skill expression in the role.
Saezio (EUNE)
: So, how many times is it now?
I play support, so theres basically one solved page for most champions. Maybe I'll adjust a minor rune or stat bonus from time to time, but overall, theres very little thought or experimentation that goes into it for me. Its a really gd boring system for support players.
: how to rank up without immediately demoting again
This is totally normal. I bounced back and forth on the same division multiple times. It just means you are about to get over a hump, thats all I think I mist have revisited G2 and G1 at least 4 or 5 times before i got over them.
Rioter Comments
: Fair Matches or Faster Queue Times?
To build onto your idea a little bit, I think it would make sense to have: - Normal games have a faster q times. - Ranked games have more evenly matched teams, (but with slower q times) This should obviously be applied where it would have the most beneficial tradeoff. Probably upper-middle elo and lower? High elo games may already be experiencing long wait times for Ranked
Phrazur (NA)
: Like every MOBA, what's your point?
Are you really not understanding his comment? Or are you just trying to be snarky?
: I've argued with him before. Its not worth it.
Seconded. When one person in a discussion is more concerned about convincing themselves that they are right, than they are at having a rational conversation, no headway can be made.
: It is just me or does Riot prefer we watch rather than play the game ?
If that truly is their strategy, then I believe that's a mistake. Because the less I like playing this game, the less I enjoy watching it. And this is coming from someone who was was an unabashed NA fanboy. I own a bunch of jerseys and t shirts of my favorite LCS teams, but now I feel like a poser to even considering wearing them, because I don't even bother following the standings at this point. I really wonder how many people out there really enjoy spectating LoL when they aren't enjoying playing it
: Can we allow losing bot to make comebacks already? Every game is a coin flip
It definitely feels like shit when some of your team gets completely blown out of the water, but honestly, every role can play a part in the success of their bot lane. If your bot lane is getting smashed, odds are they are pushed in pretty hard, which means: - Top can TP in - Jg can gank - Mid can roam One, two, or all three of you can come crashing into the enemy bot lane and stop the bleeding. I cant count the number of times I've been in a game where i've been tower dove by 3 or 4 enemies on 2 or 3 occasions, hobble out of lane completely crippled, then have my teammates ask, "WTF Bot lane" I get that lanes will get smashed, but if the enemy team is being proactive about ganging up on your bot lane, then you either need to take equivalent advantages on the opposite side of the map, or you need to position to protect your bot. If you dont do either of those things in response to the enemy ganging up on your duo lane, then I really cant sympathize with your complaint.
: So, I guess we're just ignoring the fact that Tahm can no longer support?
I really like Tahms concept and hate that his kit has led to this. They need to rework him. I would love to see them: - Change his Devour so that it breaks if you deal enough damage to Tahm. - Change his Ulti to be Zac's old Kidnap ability.
: What's up w/ League players and their hatred for point-and-click spells and mitigation? I've played several AoS games over the years and this being an issue seems rather unique to me. Reliability is power. Lux's shield is able to do a 300 base shield + 60% AP to her entire team because it has a reliability issue. Lulu or Janna have their shields w/ ~215 base and + ~60% AP, but can only do it to one person because it doesn't have that issue. If you wanted to add a skill mini-game into it, you'd have to increase the power of the all-so-hated mitigation. Soraka kills herself w/ her heals now and has to land a delayed spell w/ eh damage to regen her health up and empower her heals, shields have had their duration cut down heavily, enchanters have been whipped and chained down to their ADCs so that they are only effective as babysitters. What more should happen? There is an issue w/ mitigation spells being spammable, but that's a universal problem w/ abilities because Riot thinks that everyone (with maybe the exception of ADCs) need to stumble upon 40% CDR w/o even trying.
I want to see an enchanter offer defensive utility at an extreme level, but for an appropriate amount of difficulty. But that doesnt mean that I want to remove all point and click sustain from the game. I think there should be shield skill tests of all kinds in the enchanter role, but right now they are over-represented with point and click mitigation. We are overdue for a mechanically demanding enchanter, and god only know how many more years will pass before another one comes out. And thats not even to talk about the enchanter's over reliance on shields and heals for sustain. It would be perfectly suitable to create an enchanter that was focused more on utility buffs and debuffs that arent shields. What if we had enchanters that used things like Blind, Disarm, Cleanse, or Grounding? What if an enchanter relied on creating terrain to peel for their allies? What if there was an enchanter was as hard to play as Azir or Akali is? There are so many things still yet explored by the class. I really hope Riot uses that space soon.
: Likely a lot of enchanter players will downvote it. The passive playstyle attracts a lot of people, and no one likes people saying their champion doesn't take skill. I *don't* think Janna and Sona are ezpz to play now, I just think they are unhealthy. There is a difference. It costs them something to be simple and passive. And, to be clear, I *like* the passive playstyle of these champions. But it can't be passive, simple, and effective all at the same time. That's toxic. There need to be more points for skill expression on these champions. >I think its a sound argument that enchanters are in serious need of reworks that will gate efficient shields and heals behind more skill tests. ^ This is perfectly worded. 100% behind it.
Ahh yea that makes a lot of sense about people taking insult to the notion that someone might be saying their champ is ez mode. But yea I agree. I prefer passive play as well, and I definitely think that some enchanters should keep their lower skill test spells. Lulu makes sense to me as a good point and click mage, as her spells can target both allies and hostiles. Generally Riot has been good about their more recent shaping of active heal abilities. (Besides Yuumi who I've been pretty disappointed by - her skill expression is tied into her attach gimmick which isnt super interesting to me personally) But even looking at Redemption as an example for an easily executed, high impact spell that demands strong evaluation skills on the users part - it shows that Riot is capable of innovating smartly on shields and heals, Im just wondering why its taking so long, when most other recent champions in different roles end up pushing the envelope and impacting the meta.
: There needs to be a larger conversation about enchanter supports in the game. Riot wants interactivity, but the players are tired of damage creep and poke lanes. There are a lot of aspects to that potential conversation, but the bottom line to me is this – *there needs to be more skill associated with shields and heals for enchanters to provide satisfying gameplay or counterplay.* Point and clicks with a simple, linear cooldown aren't cutting it. Riot knows this; they are adding a mechanic to the shield cooldown on Janna that rewards more active Janna players. It's a good start. I think Taric is pretty healthy design; Yuumi, remains to be seen. What I'm *sure* of is that champions like Lulu, Soraka, Sona, Nami, and pre-9.11 Janna are too simple to ever be very healthy. So I welcome additional complexity in the kits, and I think it should be a starting point, not an end point.
This argument doesnt get the traction it deserves. Being a support main, I will argue all day long about how faceroll a champion like Talon or Diana are, but I also have to admit that point and click shields are the epitome of faceroll skills. Ive tried to bring this up over and over again, but contrarians love to downvote it, which i absolutely dont fucking get. Why would you be against swapping in more skill-based abilities for a class thats notorious for point-and-click rescues? Anyways, I agree. It makes more design sense to have heals gated behind other mechanics, like Taric and Rakan's heal. I would almost argue that Soraka should be folded into that category more strongly by tying her heal efficacy even more tightly to starcall, so she has to experience some risk if she wants decent heals. I think its a sound argument that enchanters are in serious need of reworks that will gate efficient shields and heals behind more skill tests.
: Yeah. Jungle is in a pretty rough spot at the moment. In my opinion one of the heavy reasons is that the variety of champions for jungle is close to non existing. In other words, junglers can't play what the WANT, rather what they HAVE to play. In example, when was the last time you saw an utility jungler (such as Ivern) in jungle that did good against a heavy early game monster such as Rek'Sai, Jarvan, Hecarim or Kayn? After they changed Camille's E taking her out of jungle i feel like people forgot the power of early game junglers. I remember back then the team that had to play against Camille wouldn't be going anywhere further than their turret due to the threat she opposed. Nowadays while scutle has been moved to 3:15 and is not an early game priority, junglers are forced to invent new paths that will make them benefit from farming if they are unable to gank. That's why in high elo, junglers are forced to play for their red side jungle cause golems and raptors give the most amount of gold and xp forcing them to move around the red side jungle all the time and hope that the closest lane to red side jungle has lane priority or any sort of engage so they can proift out of ganking
Yea I used to main Jungle and Supported secondarily a few seasons back, but the jungle pool got insanely boring, and there was nothing that really fit my playstyle so I gave it up. The role is just weird. Jungle never feels like its allowed the diversity of every other role. I would love to see a mix of options available for junglers, but it feels like S tier junglers are so far beyond A tier junglers, that you basically just have to hope you favorite champs happen to be one of the 4 or 5 viable junglers for the meta.
: He is basically suggesting to rework Tahm Kench to give him the ultimate Zac got with the tank update, which they are reverting. So he wants Tahm to be able to swallow the enemy team and kidnap them to another place, instead of his current ultimate.
Yes sir! I think Tahm is always going to have some presence in pro play like other global champs that are strong with team coordination like Ryze, Galio, Shen, etc. His Devour makes it even harder to balance him. If the had a more high impact ulti that wasnt global, you could probably shift even more power out of his Devouer for it, and it would still maintain his peeling play pattern, as well as supporting his overall theme of the river king ferry man.
Rioter Comments
: 3-7 in my last 10 ranked games, getting ACE or MVP almost every game, can't climb, please help
First off, are you trying to climb in solo q or in flex q? Because in Solo Q, you have a 55-ish win rate in this season and last season in solo Q. Your flex q is lower, so I'm not sure what the difference there is. But with a 55% you are going to climb, despite whatever loss streaks you are forced into. You would have climbed more last season, but it was polluted a little bit by playing other champions which dragged down your overall win rate. Literally if you don't group with people and only play Karthus and maybe 1 or 2 autofill champs, you are going to climb. Just keep in mind that it takes a lot of games to settle to where you might expect to be.
: Fair comment. Karthus isn't always the best pick. But I find it interesting that you say that Karthus will die a lot by design, but then other people are telling me that I have to avoid dying in order to win. So, which is it?
It's an evaluation every time. You can die when it makes sense to. I'm a support player, so there are games where I die more than I normally would, because my death might secure a double kill for my ADC, or maybe I can body block the jungler and die in place of my ADC (preventing them from losing out on XP and gold). If you die in a fight that kills the opposing jungler, cripples the rest of the opposing team, while your team has 3 healthy players left, and Baron is up, then that death was well worth it. If you are killing yourself in teamfights where only one person is left alive and your team isnt even going to get some tower damage out of it, then that wasnt worth.
: > [{quoted}](name=ixi Josh Sand,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RYOnyQQk,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-05-15T14:44:19.218+0000) > > Or give his ultimate global range. > > If they make another Pyke i'm driving my car off a bridge Now come and tell me Pyke doesn't require skill tests tho.
I agree, Pyke definitely requires skill tests, but I'm hoping Riot can do that for the Enchanter type champs too. My frustration with Pyke comes from the fact that there isn't really a vulnerability window if he fails his engage. And you cant exactly poke him when hes fishing for hooks either. Not a lot of ways to punish him for how much upside his initiation has.
: > [{quoted}](name=ixi Josh Sand,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RYOnyQQk,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-15T13:56:17.658+0000) > > I thought Yuumi was a terrible champion on paper, but she's actually even worse in game, and I am at a total loss on how a champ like this could be improved without breaking her. > > Her simplistic kit not only makes her feel like the vanilla latte of support champions (which nobody was asking for), but it also means that she has about the same balance flexibility as Garen. She's basically just a bag of bonus stats with a gimmicky skillshot, and an ultimate that's almost impossible to miss with. > > Point and click shields are some of the most dated, and least interactive abilities in this game, and because of that, the Enchanter class desperately needs more skill tests added to it, before we accidentally fall into another Ardent Censer meta. > > Year after year, I see so many overloaded kits coming out for every class except Enchanters, and now we get Yuumi - the champion that makes me feel like I got served a hamburger while seated in a Mexican restaurant. > > Can Riot please just start putting serious resources into modernizing Enchanter kits and giving them some interesting skill tests? Plus, and nobody is mentioning this very simple fact; It's a lame ass, uninspired, stupid, "Magical Cat". What the fuck are Riot smoking? It's no "Xerath, the Magus Ascendant!" or "Leona, the Radiant Dawn!". Nope. Just.... You Me....the "Magical Cat".
For real dude. The champ as a whole feels really lazy and uninspired. It feels like a really flat cartoon character with a kit to match. The magical cat thats basically just a magical hat for real champions to wear.
: It's Pika Fox man, he takes the contrarian position in literally every thread he posts in. Best to not waste your time.
Vekkna (NA)
: Aren't these dudes kind of what you're looking for? {{champion:497}} {{champion:432}}
{{champion:432}} To me Bard represents the highest end of Support utility. He's a generalist that can fit into a lot of different categories, but hes not a straight up protective Enchanter, per se. He can engage at range, create flanks and ganks, assist tower dives, complicate enemy objectives, etc. He's pretty much a swiss army knife, even moreso than Thresh. Since he can do so many different things, his defensive utility isnt as high impact as someone like Soraka or Janna. Bar's kit is broad but shallow, and I'm hoping to see something more narrow and deeper, if that makes sense. {{champion:497}} Rakan is actually really damn close to what would be an insanely good enchanter, but most of his power budget is spent on his hard engage, rather than being a protective peeler. I agree though, that hes a phenomenal example of a creatively designed, high mastery support champ. If Riot could make a straight enchanter with the same level of depth, I would be tickled pink.
: > [{quoted}](name=ixi Josh Sand,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RYOnyQQk,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-15T15:52:53.940+0000) > > The entire point of the post is me requesting a champ. When the players offer feedback and requests, it lets Riot know what their players want. > > Why are you trying to start shit when there is no shit to be started? you are the one trying to start shit. They will release the champions as they come. The next support champion isn't going to be for a while and I highly doubt it'll be an enchanter. "it let's riot know what players want" well... players want simple champions, overloaded champions, broken as heck champions, weak champions, fun champions... etc, etc, etc. ok cool, now you do any of those and everyone else will complain, no matter which one you choose everyone else who doesn't fall in the "I want these specific type of champion" will complain. Literally nothing they do will please anyone anymore and everyone wants something different.
That's how communities work, friend. There are tons of people here with complaints about Yasuo, and there are tons of people who also support Yasuo - it's up to Riot to parse out what all the feedback means for their game. You are kind of creating an entity with multiple personalities out of the community at large, when in reality, it has a ton of people with a ton of differing opinions. If you think there will ever be a point where anything created by man in this world would elicit zero complaints from all humans across the entire planet... well, that might be a really long wait.
: With all due respect, I have to question this: > Her simplistic kit not only makes her feel like the vanilla latte of support champions (which nobody was asking for) I'm sorry but _huh_? You try to make this point as though most of the supports in solo q _aren't_ inherently easy. There are some who are **much** more complex than many of their counterparts, however, there is still the grand majority of them who are almost _overly_ simplistic (see: {{champion:99}}, {{champion:37}}, {{champion:16}}, {{champion:53}}, {{champion:40}}, {{champion:12}}, to name a few). So I'd say that it is perfectly _a-okay_ Riot released yet another easy-to-play support champion into the mix because, in my opinion, that is not _really_ Yuumi's downfall. Instead, I'd say that her biggest problem and why she's not viable or enjoyable right off the bat is that her base stats -- to be blunt -- really suck, and her kit is a little all over the place. To me, she sounded absolutely OP on paper, yet somehow Riot couldn't execute that same level of OP-ness in practice as well. /shrugs
Don't get me wrong, my main thrust is that I want more complexity added to Enchanters, and I think Yuumi is not only yet another simplistic enchanter, she also has an insanely boring kit. At least with a champion like Soraka, or Lux, or Janna, some kind of aim is required in order to land some of their spells, there's some more nuance to them besides being a glorified stat-hat. I think the Enchanter class is already suffering from a lack of mechanical skill tests, and Yuumi is just one more boring ass kit that is getting thrown onto the pile. There is space on the roster for an Enchanter with a really high mastery curve, and this could have been the time for Riot to fill that void - and Yuumi fails to close that gap. I don't see her adding anything amazing to the Enchanter role that wasn't already done by other champs that were already there before her. If you want a good example, look at the Taric rework. There are other Vanguard supports like Braum and Tahm Kench, and pre-rework Taric had a pretty similar playstyle to those guys. But reworked Taric created an entirely different way to play a Tank support, which adds a lot of variety to the game and has given rise to some (admittedly cheesy) new game strategies. I would love to see Riot create an Enchanter with the same depth of thought that they did with Taric. I don't think that's too much to ask, given how much people hate the Enchanter's hallmark of point and click shields.
: > [{quoted}](name=ixi Josh Sand,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RYOnyQQk,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-05-15T15:27:52.784+0000) > > I'm all for overloaded champions if every role gets them and there are some counters to those champions. ok... so wait for them to make your beloved overloaded champion instead of whining because they haven't made it yet?
The entire point of the post is me requesting a champ. When the players offer feedback and requests, it lets Riot know what their players want. Why are you trying to start shit when there is no shit to be started?
: riot releases an "overloaded" champion "rito y u mak only LC$ champions!" riot releases a relative simple champion "rito y u mak simple champion!"
I'm all for overloaded champions if every role gets them and there are some counters to those champions.
Pika Fox (NA)
: Or you could get good at the champ and stop trying to claim a skill check/test isnt a skill check/test. Just because its easy to press a button with a low skill floor doesnt mean it doesnt also have a high skill ceiling.
You talk pretty tough hiding behind an unranked account. How about you put your money where your mouth is and post on your main? Show the world how awesome of a support player you are. You seem to be an expert support ready to dole out tips on the boards. Let's see if you know what it is you are talking about. Let's see that Yuumi win rate of yours
Pika Fox (NA)
: Youve either never played yuumi, or never played her well then. Her playstyle and kit changes quite a bit between attached and non. Non you have access to passive, a straight skillshot, low defensive stats but good repositioning near an ally, self heal. On an ally you no longer have to focus on dodging skillshots and gain access to numerous buff enhancements, such as shield gifting, heal gifting, adaptive force sharing. You also have the ability to maneuver Q, dash/tele/stealth following etc, but lose access to self casts and autos(and thereby passive). You also lose a valid target for the enemy, which can be good and bad.
: Careful. They’ll put ct on the next support and we’ll get another Pyke. Except this time his execute will double as a escape and put him under the nearest friendly turret or something.
Or give his ultimate global range. If they make another Pyke i'm driving my car off a bridge
: > [{quoted}](name=ixi Josh Sand,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RYOnyQQk,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-15T14:12:54.822+0000) > > Point and click abilities are the lowest skill test in the game. The mechanics required to successfully cast a point and click spell are similar to the mechanics required to buy an item from the store, or move your character around on the map. > > You are conflating a skill test with a game decision - the two are completely different aspects that effect one another. > > Shielding someone with Lulu is a simplistic skill test, and the forethought that you put into timing that spell is not a mechanical test - it's a result of your observational ability and game knowledge. > > If you know when to shield someone with Lulu, then you know when to shield someone with Lux, but the difference is that with Lux, you have to actually aim your spell - which makes it a greater skill test than Lulu's shield. > > So if you want to start calling point and click spells "skill tests," you should also acknowledge that it's literally at the bottom rung of every single type of skill test in this game - and that one's efficacy of said spells are more of a result of the player's game knowledge than them being able to meet the mechanical demands of that skill. There is actually a degree of skill required with Yuumi’s shielding. Knowing when it is safe to AA for her passive, managing it’s lengthy cooldown so there are only very small windows where no shield is currently up, all while managing her extremely high early-game mana costs.
Re-read the comment you quoted. I dont think you are following that there is a difference between the two things I'm talking about: - Skill Tests (point and click spell, skill shot, ground target spell, etc.) - Game Decisions (Timing a spell at the perfect moment) For example, look at Soraka's Silence spell. It's instant cast and has a large area of effect, making it a mechanically easy spell to land - this means that the skill test to hit with this spell is pretty low. But in order to use it effectively, you have to exercise a smart decision around its timing. Because while the spell is easy to immediately put where you want to, if you use it at the wrong time, it's completely wasted. You can be an expert at landing your silence every time, but if you wait to place it directly under Zed as he's casting his Deathmark, you've created a significantly higher level of impact with it. In order to use Soraka Silence to the fullest, you have to both pass an easy skill test, as well as make a smart decision as to when you are going to time its usage. These are the two general aspects that play into most spells in this game.
Pika Fox (NA)
: Which is entirely not true for a champion whos design is essentially two stances; attached and not, with incentives to use both, one of which is far safer. Jayce, nid and elise' ults are simple stance changes, but completely alter playstyle. The ability to fluidly use both at the same time is a skill test.
Jayce and Elise both have 3 completely different spells when they change forms, and they can be used to create different combinations of delivering damage, crowd control, or escapes. They also create scenarios where one forms spell can easily flow into another forms spell. Yuumi being attached isnt a stance so much as it is a repositioning tool and stat buff. The only thing that changes is her Q, and even then, its not changing the spells functionality, just it's targetting. I think you are having trouble separating out decision making from skill tests
Pika Fox (NA)
: Interesting skill tests.... You mean like jumping off team member to proc shield to jump back on and supply heals, or when to jump off to add auto damage to the lane, or jumping off to extend Q range?
Point and click abilities are the lowest skill test in the game. The mechanics required to successfully cast a point and click spell are similar to the mechanics required to buy an item from the store, or move your character around on the map. You are conflating a skill test with a game decision - the two are completely different aspects that effect one another. Shielding someone with Lulu is a simplistic skill test, and the forethought that you put into timing that spell is not a mechanical test - it's a result of your observational ability and game knowledge. If you know when to shield someone with Lulu, then you know when to shield someone with Lux, but the difference is that with Lux, you have to actually aim your spell - which makes it a greater skill test than Lulu's shield. So if you want to start calling point and click spells "skill tests," you should also acknowledge that it's literally at the bottom rung of every single type of skill test in this game - and that one's efficacy of said spells are more of a result of the player's game knowledge than them being able to meet the mechanical demands of that skill.
Rioter Comments
iPrawn (NA)
: Ssssh, don't tell anyone that Jax pressed R. it's a secret!
Most champions should feature roughly the same amount of clarity for their high inpact ultimates. Champions with cloudy ultimate effects certainly gain some hidden power out of it. The Veigar case is especially troublesome.
: Except there are damage dealers centred around point and clicks. The entire role of adc.
Im talking about champion spells and abilities in this instance, not auto attacking champions. But if you would rather respond to the title rather than reading the contents of my post, and having a nuanced discussion about champ design, then congrats, you've gotten yourself an internet point.
Rioter Comments
: IF The only thing that Matters is MMR and Rank Doesnt Worth Shit Then show me My MMR not my RANK
I get that Riot doesnt want to shove your elo in your face, so fine, keep it out of the client. But why bother taking the step to conceal it from people that are trying to improve through 3rd party resources? Content creators are allowed to stream and post videos on strategy. Analysis sites are allowed to post win rates, tier lists, and personalized evaluation. If there is an entire commumity dedicated to becoming better at your game, why would you bury a metric that's only sought after by enthusiasts who are looking to improve? Hiding MMR creates a point of frustration and confusion in the players who are serious about trying to improve themselves.
: I wouldn't mind getting rid of minion blockages. The champions are twice the size of minions... they should be able to just step over them. Minion blockages have several times been the reason someone lands a skill shot on me... the damn minions wont get out of the way for me to dodge.
Either that or a champion shoves friendly minions out of the way. It makes more sense that the bigger unit displaces smaller friendly units. If Darius can execute other champions with authority, he sure as shit shouldn't be forced to repath on account of some tiny little minions.
Galiö (NA)
: I looked into it. He is duo with someone with decent MMR (for that level) and your MMR is awful cause your winrate is bad. So the matchmaking was fine. Problem solved.
How is it that you can see what someone's MMR is? Because unless I'm missing something huge Riot revoked all visibility into MMR, and W/L doesnt directly translate into MMR. Case in point, I have two accounts, and last year my account with the higher MMR actually had a negative win rate, while my account with better win rate had a lower MMR, with both accounts having roughly the same number of games played. Wins and Loss rate doesnt directly to translate to MMR, and unless you are the freaking Gandalf of the matchmaker system, I would venture to say that you might not know what the hell it is you are talking about.
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ixi Josh Sand

Level 130 (NA)
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