: A Discussion Regarding Ornn's "Unstoppable" Mechanic on W
I think strongly that Riot was right to remove it. Personally I think Unstoppable is a bit much on an ability that shields him for so much while also dealing a ton of damage and clearing the wave if you’re in lane. Plus the shield lasts a super long time. Garen W or Fiora W don’t do any damage (well, Fiora w a little) — they have VERY long cool downs (20+ seconds for most of the game since they’re usually maxed last) and they take up a whole ability slot that could otherwise be used to make an ability that does more damage or something. Olaf R, in addition to having a long cool down, actually _removes_ the bonus resistances Olaf got passively from his ult, and gets some AD encouraging offensive use. Ornn W on the other hand is maxed first. With even a tiny bit of CDR on a 9s cd, that means his shield already has almost 50% uptime from a pretty early point in the game. Unstoppable is just way too much on a sub-10s cd ability. It needs to be spammable as it’s his waveclear ability, so adding unstoppable back to it would require a bigger rework of his kit IMO. Ornn is already slotted as the most offensive tank and as the best of the Vanguards. Unstoppable just makes him literally impossible to deal with. If he’s good offensively he should have some weaknesses defensively. Maybe a bit of tenacity like 25% as a reward for casting it well but the guy already has 2 cool new concepts in his kit (living forge and brittle) — maybe we don’t need to add a 3rd. I think in this case the saying “less is more” is true.
: The Dilemma of Nasus: Strong in lower elo and weak in higher elo
Nasus is not unique in that sense at all. Literally every champion that is a certain age is “simple” enough that they have to have good base numbers to be viable in low-mid elo, but since they’re so simple people are better at outplaying them at higher elo with more versatile champions. See also {{champion:32}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:80}} Edit: I wanted to add that none of your buff suggestions would really help overcome the problem of him being good at low elo but not high, since they’re all pretty straightforward buffs that just make him stronger without really giving more options. In other words your suggestions would make him just plain better, but it’s only a matter of time before he would be outclassed again by champs with dashes, CC, or more mobility. The one suggestion I like is to give him scaling tenacity with stacks. It would effectively make him more mobile when ahead, allowing for more counter play as him. Another option would be to make one of his skills more time windowed, since other than the Q they’re all just long skills that have an effect for a long time, in a large area in E’s case. For example the Garen treatment where he got 75% tenacity for the first .75 seconds of his W, makes timing the W crucial. So if Nasus got a bunch of tenacity for the firs 2 seconds of his ult, or the W slow was reduced but he got movement speed towards that enemy and/or damage reduction against the affected enemy, it would give him more meaningful choices about skill use in the middle of a big fight.
: The History of CC and Why I Believe it's a Problem
TThis post is amazing. I feel like I understand so much now
Meddler (NA)
: From memory: * Goes on the non Flash key * Can be swapped between hotkeys on Nexus Blitz * Can be removed entirely on SR (it's a suggestion, not a requirement there)
Could we add Ghost to that? As a {{champion:36}} main I usually take {{summoner:6}} {{summoner:12}} top and {{summoner:6}} {{summoner:11}} in the jungle. I'd prefer not to be auto-locked in to {{summoner:11}} {{summoner:12}} when switching. I'm assuming Hecarim mains have similar feelings.
Thorn3000 (EUW)
: this is a bit strange tho, if every champ has a winrate of over 50% than where do the losses incur? you know that if you count weighted averages of all the champs you have to get 50%...does that mean that losses are by majority accrued on champs when people have less than 50 games for them? but then what about diamond+ players who likely never go to ranked with a champ with less than 50 experience matches, who is the loser in those games then? if they are playing with other diamonds+ than the winrate of at least some champs in diamond+ games has to be below 50% otherwise it makes no sense at all and the statistics are wrong
You grossly overestimate how much people practice champs before playing them in ranked. But yes, the <50% wr's come from the huge number of players that play less than 50 games on a champ. Keep in mind this is measuring 50+ ranked games during the current season.
Yenn (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Epheremy,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GX9QEfKr,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2018-08-10T15:57:00.480+0000) > > I got to Diamond IV by playing my main {{champion:134}} while she was considered shit tier. I think it depends more on the roles and the impact you provide in a game rather than the champion itself. Your history is full of duo queued ranked games. That's not a good example.
If you look at the stats though, Syndra has a 48% wr overall in solo queue but that jumps up to 53% when you narrow it down to the players that have 50+ games on her. Skill matters way more than champion pick.
Andrey0345 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=GayFluffyUnicorn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GX9QEfKr,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-08-10T12:20:28.583+0000) > > Well you prove what he says. > Taking 150 games from low plat do dia is huuuuge. > You basically grinded. Is it really that huge? Moving all the way from plat to dia is no easy task, it's not like you're dealing with silvers/golds. I agree that's a lot of games but that's not like grinding for entire season, more like couple of months.
Yeah, 150 games is really nothing. That's only 3 games a day for a month and a half. I've seen plenty of players on op.gg that have 1k+ games and are hardstuck in bronze or silver
: If 1 guy makes it work, it doesnt become viable...
Check out the stats tho: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/winrates-by-xp/diamond There is not a single champion in Diamond+ elo with a sub-50% wr when you spend 50+ games to learn them.
Yenn (NA)
: Only roughly 50 / 141 champions are viable if you want to climb to/above Diamond
I couldn't disagree more. The stats show the truth -- See https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/winrates-by-xp . There is not a single champion in the game that doesn't have a winrate over 50% if you've played 50+ ranked games on them. The stats are even better if you filter by Diamond+ elo: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/winrates-by-xp/diamond In fact, some of the most underplayed champions in the game have some of the highest winrates when played by an experienced player. For example, Ivern 60%, Morde 57% in Diamond+ Sometimes complaining like this is just nonsense. Pick a couple champs and stick to them, and you'll climb.
Ulises (EUNE)
I like the transformation idea.
: Have you considered fixing the auto attack bug currently in the game with every single auto attack reset ability? (Titanic included) You'll stand completely still until the ability runs out or your auto attack cycle reaches the next time you could auto attack (Generally happens on champions with low attack speed, Darius, Yorick, Chogath etc. etc.)
If you're referring to some auto attacks being un-cancellable, that's intentional.
: What is the meanest (legal) thing you've done to an enemy team to get a win?
iTaLenTZ (EUW)
: pbe 8.15: The annual meme Lee 'LCS' Sin buffs are coming
Right now Lee is _insanely_ good at stealing Baron or Dragon. This change will fix that. Old version: 8% of missing health as damage -- Using Q2 on a 20 minute baron with 1k/12k hp remaining would deal *880 damage * in addition to the base damage of this skill and however much his smite is. New version: only up to 150 (+100% AD, so a few hundred if fed) so like 450 total damage vs. a low health enemy. This will make Lee baron steals so much less common (thank goodness).
: Tell me your 3 most played champions and I will tell you your personality and greatest fear.
Late to the party but {{champion:36}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:254}}
Leto GT (EUW)
: The fact that 25%-30% of games are considered traps games is concerning.
The number of trapped games *isn't* surprising when LoL is designed to be a cumulative game. Every mistake matters and every victory that you make matters -- usually in terms of getting extra gold/exp so you're stronger, or knocking down objectives. Due to the fact that all but 2 champions in every single game are in a lane, and if someone gets an advantage in lane they can keep just going back to lane and beating their opponents 1v1 or 2v2, the high number of "trapped games" is a given. Basically what you're requesting is to make players' actions before 15m not matter, or matter less, etc. That would have a pretty detrimental effect on the state of the game. Remember how bot lane used to be the only lane that mattered? Now top, mid, and jg can carry too, but ONLY if they smash their lane and then take that snowballing effect to the rest of the game. Riot has already addressed the excessive snowballing with previous patches. Bonus shutdown gold off a champion with only 2 kills seems plenty to me.
: why does ignite proc electrocute
Why on earth would it not proc it? > Basic attacks and abilities generate stacks on enemy champions hit, up to one per attack or cast. Applying 3 stacks to a target within a 3 second period causes them to be struck by lightning The _only_ purpose of Ignite is to deal some extra damage, and if for some reason your enemy went for an all-in and _didn't_ proc electrocute (i.e. they only hit you with 2 things) it makes sense that Ignite would proc it.
: Akali main 1.4M mastery points.
It does suck that the super dedicated Akali players (or Aatrox, or other reworked champs) are the ones getting screwed the most. Sorry man, sad to see you go
GigglesO (NA)
: Nerf Damage, or Buff Defense
It’s posts like this that make these boards so dumb. No logical arguments, no reasonable discussion to be had, just “this game needs to die, you sick Riot, make this change I’m arbitrarily asking for” How posts like this get 100 upvotes is beyond me. The circlejerk in this board is insanely strong.
Even (NA)
: Riot fix your game please.
Bug reports are fine but why you gotta be so toxic about it? Just report the bug, don’t be so rude in your phrasing and maybe they’ll take it seriously. Oh, and put this in “bug reports” instead of “general discussion.” How you’re hoping this post will make it to a support rep is beyond me
: Yea, the rework really messed with her identity as a diver, the attack speed on her R for her Q and the aoe knockup really lived up to it but I guess riot wanted to cut down on her mobility and map pressure and compensate her for a more solo carry/snowball assassin type kit which failed completely so now she doesn't see much solo queue or competitive play.
I wouldn’t say it failed completely ... she’s just pretty similar to Kayn now. I feel like she’s stronger as a solo carry now where pre rework she was pretty weak aside from the tank build which of course is the most popular pro play one.
: If you say best season was season 3 and hate this meta, you didn't actually play during season 3
> it was just this huge transition to fighters and assassins in every solo role That sounds pretty nice tbh. Better than tank meta imo
: ***
Yeah that's a good point, but IMO it's a little easier than you might think. We'd _probably_ want to make it the patch Worlds was played on in either Season 2, Season 3, or Season 4. If people are okay with that, it's narrowed down to those 3 choices. Then you just have to decide which champion pool is considered more "classic." So for example, if having Azir, Braum, and Gnar in the game makes it feel way too "modern," you'd opt for Season 3 instead of Season 4 (since those champs all came out in 2014). It's also true, though, that there were balance issues in every single patch. I'm hoping that people would be okay with a few "light touch" balance changes every 6 months or so -- no big gameplay changes or anything but enough to make most champs viable.
: > I don't claim that my results are some far-reaching conclusion That's precisely what you do. You claim that 22 (!!!!) people is a "healthy interest" That's indicative of nothing. It has no statistical significance at all. It's not "good results" in the slightest. The reason people always talk about how they want old seasons back is because they forget everything bad that was in those seasons, as they are blinded by nostalgia.
Considering the low level of visibility my posts got, I consider that a pretty healthy level of interest. Think about it like it's a focus group of 47 League players rather than a survey of the general population. > It has no statistical significance at all. What I'm trying to do is motivate a bigger study that could give more statistically sound results. > The reason people always talk about how they want old seasons back is because they forget everything bad that was in those seasons, as they are blinded by nostalgia. This is exactly what Blizzard thought about Vanilla WoW but they were super surprised with the amount of support it actually got from players. Further, the question of "what people want" is best settled by having them vote with their wallets -- hence why I asked (and why any future surveys should ask) how much money people would be willing to contribute to make it happen. Aside from nostalgia, there are plenty of reasons to want to play on an older patch. From a balance point of view, Riot admitted themselves (in the Ask Riot I link in the post) that they wanted to do this a while ago just to compare the state of the game and do research on things like damage creep. Another reason is if you just want to play a game that isn't constantly changing all the time (i.e. Doublelift's recent video). Another reason is if you really loved old Urgot or pre-rework Warwick and just want to play the pre-rework version. Whether or not you personally want to play it or not, there _are_ people that legitimately want to play on an old patch. And whether it'll happen is a simple business question, really -- how much money would it cost Riot (mostly in terms of developer time) to create a Classic Mode, and are there enough players willing to shell out $30 to reach that amount? I'm arguing that it's possible, that's all. Riot dismissed it off-hand in the past, and I just want them to seriously consider it.
: -Riot, "okay but we will bring newer skins over to the older patch so people still have an incentive to buy them, also you need to make a new account that will be just for this iteration of league" Repurchases of compatible skins along with a 1 time cost of 30 monies to ensure riot milks this. xD
I think they'd err on the side of "whatever is easiest to develop," meaning no new skins on an old patch or anything. Hopefully if each individual player is already paying for an account in the first place, they won't feel the need to gouge prices for old skins (that you might already own on your main anyway)
: You had 47 responses.
I don't claim that my results are some far-reaching conclusion, just that my initial poll had good results. Obviously the only people that could reach to the entire playerbase to do a more extensive survey are Riot, which is what I'm trying to encourage by posting this.
Rioter Comments
: It doesn't remove that risk of diving though, especially at just level 3. Sure it certainly makes it a bit easier to do but you have to understand that new Akali isn't as bursty or mobile as other assassins while being just as squishy. The turret is still going to hit you if you're under tower and pop out of shroud to attack, and it's going to hurt if you're doing it early on. Unlike Untargetable abilities like Vlad's pool, going into shroud doesn't stop tower shots from hitting you and the tower is very quick to shoot you even if you only pop out to throw a quick Q. I truly don't believe the new shroud is anywhere near as busted as people seem to think.
If this is all true, that does make it a lot better. I am worried about it a little but I'm hopeful that Riot mentioning her "extended execution pattern" means they're serious about making her less bursty than other assassins. I wouldn't say she's less mobile than other assassins though.
: Honestly, seeing the Akali rework makes playing immobile champs seem unfair.
> If i were playing with a PS4 controller okay, they can fly across the screen all day, but I'm use a mouse. I simply can't keep up. Are you really arguing that you'd be _more_ accurate and quick with a controller than a mouse?
: Basically invisibility + untargetable
Except traditional untargetability like Vlad W, Fizz E doesn't allow them to be hit by aoe abilities or skillshots.
Rioter Comments
: Please Help Cho Gath on his Execute Indicator this is not Fair
Not disagreeing with your point about making {{champion:31}} 's execute indicator easier to see, but I don't think your bringing up his 49% winrate is relevant. **49% isn't a bad winrate.** A 1% difference on a not-that-popular champion can be chalked up to day-to-day random fluctuations. Heck, there's a 1% winrate difference between [leagueofgraphs.com](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/chogath) and [champion.gg](https://champion.gg/champion/chogath/Top?).
: But people haven|t been going for like 5 years. People have starting to leave the game since s6 and this is where the game has been going downhill. It's not a coincidence it's a causation simple as that.
: There are already free vanilla servers
What are you talking about? I'd love to play on these if they exist ... unless you're talking about Wow instead of League
: Noah Fence but like... hearing dissatisfied customers is literally part of the job of offering a service or product to a customer. The people that work at Riot are, I'm assuming, self-actualized adults who have the inner strength and fortitude to hear, "I don't like the way you're doing your job" from salty customers, in a space they moderate whose purpose is to communicate with them. It's NOT that serious. This is not your kid's macaroni art project. You don't have to tell Riot "Wow, sweetie, what a great job!" if you don't truly believe they did. This isn't even a peer-review circle. Your criticism doesn't even have to really be constructive. When you're a customer, interacting with a business, all of your complaints are #valid. Capitalism, baby.
Sure, it's just funny when the majority of the posts in Gameplay are so ridiculous and yet people are always complaining that riot won't listen.
: What season are you aiming at? Every season had problems.
I didn't start playing til season 5ish so I don't really know the differences between the early seasons, but I'm guessing most people's idea of the "classic" good ol' times or whatever would be season 3 or 4. While they all had problems, what would be ideal was if the "classic mode" could still be balanced in minor ways to make the problems less bad. ie minor numbers adjustments to soften the most OP champions at the time. It would also be interesting if it was like a "community" server where it was actually the community running it, rather than Riot, so you could do stuff like have people vote on balance changes rather than limiting it to a small group of people making all the decisions.
: A lot of people don’t watch pro play. No need to be insulting.
> No* need to be insulting FTFY
: In my personal case; it's the idea of her WHOLE kit. She may have broken the record fo most mobile champ in the game! Combined with burst assassin damage? Giving her the tool to make her the safest, least interactive tower diver in the game is just too much! The current hyper snowball game environment makes it even more problematic then it might have been in another time.
She's not even that mobile ... Sure, her ult has 2 dashes, but that's one less than {{champion:103}} ult. Plus, it's on a long cooldown. Her E is pretty similar to a Lee Sin Q, so it only does anything if she hits something with it, and she doesn't have another dash on a short cooldown like Lee does.
Rioter Comments
: People go, when will they come back? When the game stops going downhill.
Maybe for a few people, but I really think that popularity is a horrible measure of how good objectively a game is. The popularity of classic games like chess and Go rises and falls over the years when those games don't change one bit. The biggest reason League's popularity is waning right now is that everyone who was playing League before just because it was the popular game to play has switched over to Fortnite/PUBG for the same reasons. A lot of people just play whatever games their friends are playing.
Risen29 (NA)
: Poorly conceived quest - There is no way to find and group up with low level players.
That's obviously not the intention of the quest ... you have to actually play with a friend who only recently started playing League.
: This is so ironic. You are currently circlejerking on liking him. but when people circlejerk to dislike him its bad. what? I am not allowed to say someone is doing their job badly as an opinion when it clearly is breaking the game going further out from what it used to be? but you can bash me for saying an opinion that differs from your opinion? please...
someone else put it well: > [{quoted}](name=AbiwonKenabi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s7hmnYp0,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-07-17T14:07:04.578+0000) > > I don&#x27;t think OP is implying that all criticism is bad. They are saying the way in which the average Gameplay Boards post goes about it is unapproachable and unhelpful. It is one thing to state your concerns for Akali&#x27;s future balance, its much less helpful to mention how Riot should fire CertainlyT or what have you. OP&#x27;s main point was that average posts like this make it difficult for Rioters to comment on an actual civil discussion, hence why many refer to Gameplay as merely &quot;circlejerking posts&quot;: a term meaning posts that don&#x27;t contribute much to overall conversation, instead just receive upvotes from other players who are similarly outraged and don&#x27;t leave much room for discussion or for Riot themselves to contribute. > > &quot;Circlejerks&quot; are bound to happen, and be common even, on a format like this. Toxic behavior is also sadly common to video game forums, and these boards are no exception. But OP is mainly saying that rather than attacking someone&#x27;s character or getting otherwise unreasonably outraged, posters ought to make more discussion-based posts if they want an actual dialogue with Riot. In my own personal opinion, I think some people aren&#x27;t actually interested in an actual dialogue and just want Riot to tell them what they want to hear; furthermore, the ideas for the game of the Boards at large are generally bad, and if Riot actually listened to Boards/Reddit/Any fan forum as much as they&#x27;d like, we&#x27;d be in even worse position. Again, that last part is my personal opinion.
: Are you saying that if we don't constantly circlejerk praise to riot regardless of how many mistakes they make or how lazy they are or how bad the state of the game is they should ignore our community entirely?
Yeah, because there definitely aren’t any other options than ridiculous negative circlejerk and ridiculous positive circlejerk
: After months of getting ignored while the game is going downhill, you could at least expect people to become aggressive
The game is not objectively “going downhill.” If that’s your opinion, fine, but I’m tired of people stating that like it’s just common sense. It doesn’t matter that viewership on Twitch is down, or even that the player base is shrinking. People come and go and the fact that League isn’t the hip fad anymore compared to Fortnite doesn’t mean it’s getting worse.
: I still don't get how we still have a pizza feet champion in the game in 2018. You all know who I'm referring to. How do champions like Aatrox and Akali get visual updates before him? Also why do we never get visual updates without full redesigns anymore?
Who are you talking about? I genuinely don’t know
Madsin25 (NA)
: Just because you think they are "not acting right" doesn't make them wrong. We have good reason to be terrified at whatever that guy puts into league.
I totally disagree. CertainlyT seems like a stand-up guy and I love that he is always thinking outside the box to bring new and innovative ideas to League. Sure, some of his ideas have been a little too crazy and have ended up breaking the game a bit. But he doesn’t work in a vacuum! All his designs get vetted by the whole design team, and play tested by their whole play test team, and worked on by tons of other people. There’s absolutely NO reason to be so derogatory towards a single designer. He’s a person too, let’s not forget that.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ckBuuxqF,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-17T01:20:37.769+0000) > > This is irrelevant below Diamond. In 50%+ of games, you have no front line. Everyone wants to play assassins and champions with &#x27;carry potential,&#x27; and often even your support won&#x27;t have reliable CC, or will go for kills rather than protecting you. > > I&#x27;m pretty consistently winning bottom lane and still losing, because nobody is protecting me, and **something** can flash into me or run me down and instantly kill me because my team isn&#x27;t peeling, or multiple things can one shot me and they can&#x27;t peel all of them. It&#x27;s only slightly better than mid lane, because you don&#x27;t have to worry about counter picks. > > i.e. I just had a game where I was 8-5-12 as Quinn. We were pushing to end and the enemy Darius flashed past our front lines and tried to kill me. I vaulted away and they collapsed on him, while at the same time the 4-11-7 Wukong flashed into me and instantly killed me. With me dead, they just pushed down four turrets + inhibitor + nexus and ended the game. Well maybe if you're the top tier player you say you are, you wouldn't be below Diamond. I'm trying to offer advice to someone who wants it. Stop pity partying yourself and stop replying to me. I'm done dealing with your excuses.
: Average KDA 7/4/6 on Jhin (36% Win rate) "My teammates are holding me back" Change my mind please.
Obviously you’re doing okay statistically — seems like you have a really hard time with mid/late game though. Work on decision making, watch streams of junglers like IWillDominate who explains a lot about why he goes where he goes. Work on macro calls and teamwork. Watch Voss of pro games and figure out why they’re going where they’re going during different phases of the game. If you watch videos of people doing unranked to challenger streams, you’ll see they can have this same problem — at low elo certain teammates are uncarryable even when you’re fed out of your mind. You’re not getting fed out of your mind, so you need to have good macro play AND get lucky with teammates to win.
: Leave & let it rot - my 2 cents.
If you want he game to be changed back to “the way it was,” then yeah you should definitely leave. They’ve been very clear that League is constantly evolving. If you want to play a game that will stay the same over the years, League is definitely not for you.
: I would like to thank riot for officially making mid as cancer as bot, jungle and top
Posts like this are the problem with these boards. No content, just total toxicity, no real discussion to be had here. Every post and comment criticizing Riot will be upvoted, every one defending them will be downvoted, hehe let’s make a post calling Riot stupid and get some free upvotes.
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