: 100% winrate against ~~DIO~~ Vladimir
2/0/0 {{champion:8}} "Oh? You are approaching my lane? Instead of running away you are coming right to me? Even though your top laner is pinging my completed Protobelt?" 5/0/0{{champion:1}} "I can't RQW Electrocute you without getting closer"
: Having one ability that scales off AS doesn't suddenly make Garen more of an AS champion than Aatrox. The latter DOES benefit from AS, just not as a direct scaling. _Deathbringer Stance's cooldown is reduced by 2 seconds whenever Aatrox hits a champion or large monster with a basic attack..._ If you really want to be like old Aatrox and bash people in the face, you're more than welcome to build Guinsoo's on new Aatrox. The phantom hits will further reduce Deathbringer Stance's CD so you can actually proc it pretty quickly later on. In fact, Aatrox's kit could probably be tweaked slightly to facilitate this...
Aatrox needed to be changed because old Aatrox needed AS, AD, CDR, Lifesteal, Health, and Resists to be good. The problem is that AS, AD, and Lifesteal are all very expensive stats, and are very rarely found with the defensive stats. New Aatrox mainly scales on AD, CDR, Health, and Resists. CDR is usually bundled with AD, Health, and Resists so his items choices and core build is much easier to manage and he isn't as heavily punished for going for a greedy item like DD. I think the main reason they changed Garen is so that he can actually use stuff like Grasp and Tiamat without it feeling like shit once he starts spinning 24/7. The goal isn't to make him good with attack speed, but to make it so that he can actually build a lot of items that are geared around the idea of AS=DPS without it feeling bad.
: What if they changed/nerfed Volibear and added some sort of delay for recurring stuns on the same champ? This might be a simpler way than added a whole new class of items?
It's not just stuns that are the issue, gunslingers spreading disarm and shrink is also difficult to beat. That being said you may be right that the solution may be to nerf the cc, and not to create a CC/Anti-CC arms race.
LTK KoRo (EUW)
: Teemo isn't even anymore a top5 or top 10 most cancerous toplaners,
Statistically speaking he loses lane to most meta top champs anymore too.
Terozu (NA)
: Teemo is a top laner, no matter how much you hate him he will always be balanced as a intentionally cancerous ranged top laner.
and as much as people hate it, ranged champs have a place top lane. When Riot decided to create an entire class of champions whose counterplay was not to get in melee range with them (Juggernauts) then they made ranged champions in top lane a necessity.
: r/wooosh
I feel like we should give benefit of the doubt here and just assume that he got the joke but was trying to provide context for why such a silly change was made.
: > [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=TNPMEk2T,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-03T10:53:56.160+0000) > - R hitbox is really clunky and often hits the person standing behind you instead of the person you ult towards I have experienced a fair bit of them myself. I never got my R cancelled by a flash, don't know about that, but the Q and W bugs are real. This one I quoted in particular, sometimes I try to ULT away from people chasing me and I end up going the other way and hitting an opponent.
This is semi-intentional I believe, to make it so that it's not as effective of an escape tool and to make it more reliable to use at close range. He basically does a short hop backwards then does his lunge animation, and pretty much any enemy in melee range will be hit regardless of the direction you casted it in.
: I think you're missing the point. What I've seen most people complain about isn't her gameplay, but her overall design and thematic. She uses the same design the rest of the Enchanters use, flowy, light, pastels, feminine. The only thing that makes her stand out from a thematic point of view is that she's a cat.
That's fair I guess. I've heard talk of a "Drill Sergent" support for awhile, and that would be a much bigger thematic break from what they have done in the past.
Nyandere (NA)
: It's entirely dependent on which kit it would be assigned to. Imagine Nautilus' passive on an ADC. Or Annie's passive on someone like Karthus, or Cassio. Hell, Imagine Sions passive on any ranged AD champion..
>Sion passive on a ranged champ. Pre-rework Yorick ult.
: {{champion:9}}
I don't know if Fiddle needs a full rework. His Passive, W, and R are all fairly defining abilities that have synergy with each other, and his Q and E have good end effects (fear/silence). He's just terrible to play because some of his abilities have negative synergy with each other (Q->W) while others are just terrible to actually use/have them used on you (Q/E). Rework his Q from a point and click to a ground target AoE that causes a scarecrow to pop up at Target location and fear all nearby enemies (for a reduced duration). This would allow him a bit more control in where enemies go (preferably not out of my W range), while giving a bit more counterplay and ability to dodge it. His E can remain a silence but instead of a point and click that bounces it is an AoE that affects all enemies near Fiddle or one of his scarecrows. He would still be fairly simple and rely on a big team fight presence through his ult and silence, but now would have more skill expression in placement of his scarecrows and timing his E.
Kelg (NA)
: {{champion:31}}
He doesn't really need a full rework. Minor touch ups at most. He may not be super competitively viable but he fulfills his fantasy fairly well.
: I wish Yasuo's windwall had a minor delay to it, a faster version of Veigar's cage. At least then teams can kinda play around it and it won't just be a reflex test for the Yasuo.
It's supposed to be a reflex test. Yasuo's kit is built around the concept of "Attack, Parry, Dodge" so that he feels more sword fighter-y. Fiora's kit is built the same.
: basically when they changed nidalee from a spear throwing champ into a more complex champ, only to release zoe. which is the old nidalee but better
Riot: {{champion:76}} is getting changed because it's not interactive to have 90% of your health bar disappear from a skillshot that came from a whole screen width away. Also Riot: {{champion:142}}
: > [{quoted}](name=kile147,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EPkAL1Az,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2019-02-27T02:38:55.511+0000) > > I've always felt that tanks should get a Tear {{item:3070}} option. Right now both AP and AD have options, that while niche they do what they set out to do. Tanks should get one that gives health or Armor. It wouldn't necessarily be cost efficient right away but would hopefully solve mana issues while also letting them scale into a slot efficient item. > > OR > > A similar one that I came up with awhile back that gave armor instead, and hoped to solve the problem of mages not having an armor option to rush that helped them sustain mana, and tanks not having as many Armor+AP options as Armor+AD: The only problem with that is how niche tear items are. The champions who can buy them effectively are those with low enough cooldowns to spam spells. Tanks don't really have that, it they can't. Because they need relatively longer cooldowns to make hard CC fair. It actually would've worked for a few tanks, particularly old Sejuani and old Maokai since they had toggled mana-drain spells. But now that even those two lost those abilities there's no one it would work on.
That's actually why I made it so that both options could be charged by autoing (like {{item:3004}} ) so that they could charge the item without wasting their cooldowns. They could also have their charge rate increased, so that they wouldn't feel as bad to get later.
: Sunfire Cape is not a fair first item for top lane tanks: a cost and usage analysis
I've always felt that tanks should get a Tear {{item:3070}} option. Right now both AP and AD have options, that while niche they do what they set out to do. Tanks should get one that gives health or Armor. It wouldn't necessarily be cost efficient right away but would hopefully solve mana issues while also letting them scale into a slot efficient item. >Tear Item with HP: >{{item:3070}} + {{item:3105}} + 350 = 2300 Gold >30 Armor >30 Magic Resist >250-1000 mana based on tear stacks >Unique Passive: Awe - Grants health equal to 15% of maximum mana. Refunds 15% of mana spent. >Unique Passive: Mana Charge -Grants +6 maximum mana on spell cast, mana expenditure, or auto attack. (Max 3 times per 12 seconds) OR A similar one that I came up with awhile back that gave armor instead, and hoped to solve the problem of mages not having an armor option to rush that helped them sustain mana, and tanks not having as many Armor+AP options as Armor+AD: >{{item:3070}} + {{item:3191}} + 950 = 2900 Gold >60 AP >30 Armor >250 -1000 Mana Based on tear stacks >Unique Passive: Awe - Grants armor equal to 2% of maximum mana. Refunds 15% of mana spent. >Unique Passive: Mana Charge - Grants +6 maximum mana on spell cast, mana expenditure, or auto attack. (Max 3 times per 12 seconds)
xZabaksx (EUW)
: Dream item: Combine: {{item:1027}} {{item:3067}} {{item:3140}} 500hp 350mana 10% cdr 40 magic resist Unique passive: increases health by 15%, increases armor and magic resist by 10% Unique active: remove all immobilizing debuffs (900 cd) Making up items is fun
That wouldn't solve the issue OP is talking about being a good rush item because it's better in AP matchups. It's also more abuseable by non-tanks. Tenacity is a better option than the QSS active, because it reduces CC effectiveness while indirectly scaling with your inherent tankiness thus making it less attractive on non-tanks.
LTK KoRo (EUW)
: {{champion:18}} Remove her W cc evading Rework her R to... something else. "i messed up go away" button on hypercarry is definitely a bad idea {{champion:67}} Make her Tumble a delayed stealth. I'd love to know overall direction where she moved, after that she can move freely Either nerf her W damage or R AD bonus AD. She doesn't need that much power vs both squishies and tanks {{champion:117}} Gut duration of W or change it to skillshot. {{champion:40}} Remove R knockback, give her lower Q cd for exchange. Other toxic champions ( {{champion:203}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:268}} and more) need either reworks or really complex work on their kits, but i have no idea how to preserve their identity while doing that so uh...
Kalista should have her bunny-hopping removed. She has plenty of other unique identities in her linking passive, her ult, and her rend mechanics that she doesn't really need the hopping to be special. Azir should have just gotten his playmaking potential nerfed from the beginning. I think that replacing his E with something else would be the best way to do it, as it combines with his R to allow him to do Insec plays, and it also stacks with R as self-peel that means he doesn't have to rely on his team as much as an ADC might. I think Riven's core problems arise from her durability (shield) scaling with her damage, and her being a bursty champion. These two combined mean that once she gets ahead it is very difficult to come back. I agree I can't think of a way to change either of these without killing part of her identity though, aside from nerfing her shield AD scaling in favor of some HP, but I don't think that would do the trick. Gnar has two issues, but the one you are talking about is how it feels to play against him. People consistently complain about him, even during times where he has a 46% win rate. I think the main issue is that his play pattern is poke-kite based, but I don't think the issue is necessarily Gnar himself. He exists to counter champions like Darius and Trundle, who I think are the real problem because you need to have some way to counter them, and their only intended weakness is to poke-kite them. People hate Gnar because he's frustratingly good at avoiding direct confrontation, but as long as you have an entire class of champions (juggernauts) that are designed around the philosophy of "avoid direct confrontation or lose" I don't see how his design can change that much. I think Riot is moving the right direction by buffing his Mega form instead of mini, but I don't think Mega Form on its own is a viable solo lane strategy as long as juggernauts exist.
Salron (NA)
: Irelia's MS affects her ability to get into range to cast spells Your logic is awful
Irelia's abilities have 600+ range, and her dash has a reset that works on minions, meaning it could theoretically allow her to engage from 1200 units away. The only way to avoid her by outrunning her is to already be outside of interaction range for either of you. This isn't a character like Darius who has considerably less range (largest is 525 on his E) and relies heavily on running down enemies.
: Because it's 5 damage off of one of the most highly spammed abilities in the game (10 damage on an isolated target). It's not fair at all to compare this nerf to the -5 ms Irelia nerf.
A closer comparison to Irelia's ms nerf would be to decrease his base AD. They both technically use those stats, but they have other parts of their kit they can lean on to avoid really feeling the hit (Karthus Q, Irelia Dash).
: Same thing happened with Quinn jg and the 3 armour nerf. Yes it didn't affect her top winrate that much but it tanked her jg at the time by about 4-5%. It is just how sensitive jg is to early base number changes, even if they are small.
That is fairly surprising actually. Melee champs who get those kind of nerfs in jg suffer similar drops. Ranged champs like Quinn usually kite more though, so I would expect that kind of change to their defense to matter far less than to a melee champ who has to facetank.
: People have made good arguments for Diana being a Bruiser/Diver, and I agree with them. Elise, I guess, follows the same argument as Diana. I do remember a time where Elise players would build 1 damage item, then go full tank. Galio *should* be a tank. He has a bit too much CC to be considered a fighter. Singed........eh..........alright. I guess an argument could be made there. I see him as more of a tank because of his ult, but he doesn't have too much CC, so..........*eh?* AS for Swain and Vlad, I can see why you put them on, mainly due to their built in sustain, but I still believe they should be balanced as mages first, due to their range. They can still keep someone at arms length if they wanted to, and fighters aren't meant to do that.
Cho, Liss, Viktor, Ryze, Amumu, and Maokai alongside the ones listed above are all champions who might also use whatever items are made for Bruisers. They all either suffer from being underwhelming as pure tanks, or scaling very well with some durability alongside their AP because they have shorter range than traditional mages. I don't think the items should be designed for these champs, but they need to be kept in mind when designing them as they would definitely look towards bulky-AP itemization changes with a lot of interest.
: > [{quoted}](name=SatomiKun,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G9n3GzRl,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-01-26T03:11:12.290+0000) > > As someone who plays quite alot of juggernauts, I really don't think that item is needed. Many juggernauts already deal huge damage with their kits and current itemization, giving them even more damage while building tank items doesn't seem necessary for me. the entire point of the class is to scale into tanky melee carries who win battles of attrition and are able to take on multiple opponents in exchange for low target access and utility. its definitely needed for a lot of them. the only juggernauts that are worth shit right now are aatrox and urgot. urgot isnt even technicially a juggernaut being a ranged champion, and aatrox doesnt even build like one. he just builds flat ad to blow people up, and is also getting nerfed next patch. {{champion:86}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:102}} out of all of those only a few of them are actually good right now or able to build tanky enough to survive their own win condition. which is getting into melee range of multiple opponents. if illaoi tries what shes supposed to do and get into the middle of 5 opponents for her ult, she literally dies to cc and focus fire during half a second of her ult animation. darius has the same problem and dies during the 3 to 5 seconds before his q comes off cooldown. garen survives a bit longer but just overall deals shit for damage unless he flashes ignites on squishy villains with triforce. even nasus is still shit after his buffs. he deals a lot more damage when stacked, but its worth nothing when he gets kited and still dies in seconds. the fighters that are currently strong are mostly mobile skirmishers and divers with more versatile kits. i think juggernauts need {{item:3005}} to be able to carry on tankier builds and scale into sustained damage threats instead of being forced to rely on stacking ad and triforce to play like some sort of shittier assassin who can only fight opponents by blowing them up with flash plays.
Does Atmas really offer enough durability to solve that problem though? I'd love for Atma's to be in the game because I main Gnar, but if resistances actually solved durability issues the meta wouldn't be where it's at today. Juggernauts absolutely need something, but Atma's isn't enough.
: how bout no, it will just lead to the same situation as heals and grievous wounds where heals can be ridiculously OP if no one has grievous wounds and are garbage if someone does have it, just balance heals/shield instead of relying on an item/champion to counter it
They already have shield countering mechanics in the game that actually have counterplay too. Kalista, Twitch, and somewhat Kennan all have abilities that allow them to builds stacks on a target then activate an ability to deal extra damage. This is a counter to shields because if someone is shielded they can just wait out the shield duration before activating it. The reason these don't push shields to be stronger is because they don't rely on raw numbers to do the job but take advantage of the counterplay already inherent. If we really want more champions or items that have advantages against shields then design them around these kind of mechanics.
: > [{quoted}](name=kile147,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=7xUKFmrJ,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-24T03:24:22.110+0000) > > Maybe it has to do with the war? > > "We would normally lock you up, but we don't have the manpower to add to the prisons while also fighting the Noxians." No he got locked up a few years before it.
Yasuo? I thought the whole point of his story was that he went out to fight the Noxians instead of protecting the Elder, then got blamed when the Elder was killed.
: > [{quoted}](name=Latarnia40,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=7xUKFmrJ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-23T21:40:15.344+0000) > > You watched Necrit's video, didn't you?{{sticker:sg-ahri-2}} Yeah I did. But seriously though what the f@#$ Ionia?! Jhin goes to jail after murder like 20 people horribly and of his own free will but Yasuo is labelled for death for something he didn't even do?!
Maybe it has to do with the war? "We would normally lock you up, but we don't have the manpower to add to the prisons while also fighting the Noxians."
: Even though you probably meant to type expensive, saying that trinity is the most expansive item in the game is probably true lol
{{item:4403}} Nah, the Stat-Stick is definitely more expansive. Also it's hilarious to build on Jax.
: If {{item:3508}} Essence flare will still be in the game nerfing jax Cd wouldn't do that much.
He said being able to jump on low cooldown at early ranks. Presumably the nerf would be intended for early game, when Jax doesn't have ER.
: The problem is they designed {{champion:39}} to be able to do it all: * Durable through natural synergy with the Juggernaut item set * Highly mobile * High burst damage * High sustain damage * In kit hard CC * Aoe Team FIght Ult * In kit healing * Strong defensive option in W Then, for the sake of balance, they had to nerf her numbers patch after patch to the point that she's been sitting at a 45 percent win rate They should figure out some clear strengths and weaknesses for Irelia's kit and sharpen her identity towards those goals.
Same problem old Irelia had. There's a set of tools that all toplaners draw from, and you need to check certain boxes in order to be successful. Irelia more or less checks all of them, and the only way a good player can be beaten is by just getting out stat-checked.
: if youre losing to nasus ur playing to aggressive
This isn't personal anecdote. I am showing you hard statistical data that says that, on average, in Plat+ Korean games, Nasus beats Teemo. More than that, I am showing you data that says he has a better kill percentage in lane, implying that he is actually stronger early game. I understand there are ways to play around Nasus as Teemo, but given that he statistically loses lane it seems fairly hard to say that he "destroys" Nasus.
Saezio (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=kile147,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RV7Noq50,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-01-15T00:08:43.176+0000) > > Bad spot? He's been at roughly 50-52% win rate for awhile now. 49% winrate in D+ games across all regions AND no pro play for like 4 years?. Yeah sure he will have a decent winrate in low elo since he is a champ that has a very low ceiling so you can't really "mess him up". Sort of like garen/yoric. It's like if you play teemo poorly you still get about 80%-85% of the champions full potential on the other side of the spectrum is Azir and Ryze that if you play them poorly you get about 5% of the champion's full potential if that. But riot does not know what to do with him, because if they buff him iron-gold 4 will cry and if they rework him all his mains in the same brackets will cry.
[As far as I can tell](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/teemo/top/diamond) he has been fairly decent in Diamond for the past 3 years. Lowest win rate of ~45% on a couple of occasions and highest of about 66% for a patch, with multiple excursions above 60%. While there have been a couple of rough patches, overall he seems to hover a little above 50%. He is currently sitting at 53%, with multiple Grandmaster and Challenger players in multiple regions getting as high as 60% win rates with him. [To compare](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/riven/top/diamond), Riven's win rates in Diamond arent significantly different. She has had a low of ~45% for one patch in 2016 and a high of ~63% for a patch, but appears to be more consisent in hovering between 50%-53%. She currently has about 52% win rate with multiple Grandmaster and Challenger players having 70%+ win rates. The biggest difference between them is their play rate, with Riven having dropped from ~17% down to ~6% over the past few years with Teemo consistently hovering around 2%. He is not exactly common in pro play, but tbh that's mostly because has a harder time working in well coordinated environments than a lot of common Pro Champs. I don't think he really needs to be seen in pro play to be a successful champion though. He is easy to pick up, fairly well balanced at all elos (52-53% win rate), and fun to play. I don't see a reason to change any of that.
Saezio (EUNE)
: removing slows is one thing, but CC would be too fucking OP I believe. Then again, teemo is in a bad spot but with such an easy to play kit it is kinda expected. there is about 0 room for error. Especially after you get your Mallet
Bad spot? He's been at roughly 50-52% win rate for awhile now.
: Teemo isnt exactly the easiest champion to jump onto unless you're an assassin and thats what assassin are for to kill someone like teemo all champs need a weakness giving him this buff would make him nearly uncatchable. I'm not gonna say teemo is broken because hes not but this is exactly how champions get over tuned giving them something they dont NEED. not to mention he would just absolutely destroy {{champion:75}} more than he already does Giving him this will also make him nearly ungankable to a few champions {{champion:203}} {{champion:104}} {{champion:64}} (pre 6) since they rely heavily on slows and red buff to have successful ganks and if it does remove CC well that would only make the matter worse. Like I said he does need something but in all honesty this is not what he needs Teemo isnt TERRIBLE but hes also not amazing either giving him this is too much.
>Not to mention he would just absolutely destroy {{champion:75}} more than he already does You mean get destroyed? Nasus has about a 51% winrate against Teemo, which isn't too big since he should theoretically lose lane then outscale, but the period to punish Nasus is so painfully short that Nasus actually has a 55% kill rate in lane. Teemo is no longer the lane bully he used to be, as there are just so many tools to deal with him now, even for outdated champs like Nasus.[OP.gg Link](http://www.op.gg/champion/nasus/statistics/top/matchup?targetChampionId=17)
Ormylar (NA)
: I just wish the pink ward and sweeper didn't disable his shrooms. That's my main problem when I play as teemo. If they only revealed traps but not disable them, I feel like he'd be a lot better. That way the enemy still has to tread carefully if they choose not to destroy them but continue chasing. As a side note, same thing for shaco boxes.
I feel like they could reveal them and just reduce their trigger range. That way a minefield is easier to navigate and disarm for a melee champ, but it wouldn't completely invalidate the work Teemo put in.
: It's bc if you declare your champ and then go and do something or tab out and lose track of time, your team doesn't have an afk at the start of their game
How does it stop that? You can just click lock in then do that just as easily.
: I was posting about this earlier but got dvoted cuz I was venting... It's really frustrating how little indications and clarity this passive has. The team should know when you're upgrading, also they need to get a tooltip start of match informing then how it works.
Why do they need to know? It's just free stats at certain points in the game. The only interaction his allies really need is to stand near him at least once (which should happen naturally), and apparently if they have multiple upgradeable items they can pick which one gets it by moving it to the first slot (which doesn't need to happen, just a bonus really).
: > [{quoted}](name=SpaghettiVase,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uQsBhR6x,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-01-13T19:07:13.637+0000) > > Can there be a bit more clarity with this passive, by which I mean his ability to upgrade his teammates items. I mean someone who's playing Ornn for the first time is going to have no idea how it works, no idea what items are upgrade-able, and no way to tell his teammates he needs to upgrade their items. You can't ping your passive so the only thing you can attempt to do is ping their items and hope they understand. Of course anyone who doesn't play Ornn won't understand, nor will they even notice when he does upgrade them as their is nothing signifying he did so. Not sure if this is being further updated for clarity but it feels really sloppy at the moment. Thanks! As a non Orn player, I read it a few times, said "eh whatever?" and moved on. Am not going to even attempt to understand that mess of a description.
You don't really need to. Outside of the ability to shop outside of fountain the passive has no interaction with anyone else. It can basically be summed up as, "After level 13 Ornn and his team get free, permanent, stats that can be viewed as an item upgrade." There's not really any gameplay interaction for enemies or allies on how it happens, so just know that Ornn has some degree of powerspike at 13.
: >Played with an Ornn today >Asked him how i can buy his items >Tells me he is too low level >Looked in my inventory late game and saw upgraded Black Cleaver It just lacks info...I didnt even realize, as you said that my item was upgraded and i dont think at any point he was near me to give me it (Unless i just didnt notice when we were in fountain or something)
He clicks on you when you are somewhat nearby, goes into his forging animation, then sends a glowing ball at you that upgrades the item. I could see it being easy to miss.
: > Passive: I think a big issue with his passive isn't getting crit at high fury, but getting crit at low fury. A rework to it that made it a guaranteed crit (would need some work on trigger conditions) that he could choose to either use to trade or sacrifice to sustain with Q would probably make it a lot less frustrating, because it would make the game you play with/against his fury bar much more consistent. This is a problem with how crit chance is implemented in the game in general rather than being truly random. Not a problem with Tryndamere. anyone else using crit can do the same thing
I feel like there's a lot of reasons why Tryn's is more frustrating though, primarily because he gets it from level 1. A lucky trade on his part in early levels can set you back pretty far, and give him a big chance to snowball. This can technically happen with other crit users too, but Yasuo is probably one of the only other champs to pick up a crit item during the laning phase, and by nature of his passive it's going to happen often enough to be consistent (and his do less damage, thus producing less overall variance when he does get lucky). I'm not disagreeing that it's a problem inherent to low crit in general, but other champs like Ashe, Fiora, Jhin, and Shaco have all had critical strikes introduced to their kits in ways that make them more consistent and predictable, so it would make sense to do the same for Tryndamere. Two examples I can think of right now- Battle Fury: Tryndamere gains 5 fury each time he lands a basic attack, and an additional 10 if it kills the unit. After not dealing or receiving damage for 8 seconds Tryndamere loses 5 fury per second. **Tryndamere's natural critical strikes deal no additional damage, but instead generate an additional 10 fury. ** **Upon reaching 100 fury Tryndamere's next attack will consume 15 fury and deal 10 (200% AD, XX% AP?) Physical Damage. ** Should have roughly the same DPS as current Tryn if I did my math right. Would slightly change the uptime of his max heal Q since he wouldn't always be sitting at 100 fury in a fight, but the heal could be tweaked slightly on it to compensate. Could also add an AP ratio on the fury attack if AP Tryn is something that Riot actually wanted to buff. **OR** Get rid of fury entirely. Passive: Tryndamere permanently has bonus attack damage, and gains additional bonus attack damage per 1% of his missing health. (his current Q passive) Q: Passive- When this ability is up, every basic attack builds a fury stack. At 3 stacks Tryndamere will critically strike. Active- Heal for 80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 300 (+ 150% AP) This one I feel is probably a bit simpler on the surface, but the numbers would need more tuning. He no longer has to build up as much fury to get the crit, and his Q heal is now always consistent since it's no longer tied to a resource but would still sacrifice his free crit. I don't know that I like this solution as much because it seems to get rid of some depth, but it's a lot easier to grasp the game you play with him. The Q heal could be tuned down (I used his old potential Max heal here) and the number of stacks required to crit could also scale by level, rank in Q, or rank in another ability if they needed another tuning lever for him. Edit: For this option, I think I'd also make it so that his fury stacks aren't expended if he would have naturally crit on that strike, so that he still synergizes with crit chance.
Hügö (EUW)
: And how do i disrespect smite kill someone then?
Have it do 1 damage. Then it is the Tundle Pillar level of disrespect.
: Maybe just bushes? Then junglers could use them to clear faster, without it being inherently overturned, and unlike water walking, EVERY map has at least four bushes.
That is actually a fantastic idea. They honestly could just make a separate rune that provides MS and damage boost when entering/exiting a bush for a short period to replace waterwalking on non-SR maps. If it works out well on those then maybe bundle it into Waterwalking, or add it as an option on SR.
Bârd (NA)
: Passive: Trynd can crit you. This is a thing he does. You don't dump all your CC into an ulting Olaf, you don't commit Syndra ult with Kayle nearby. That would be stupid. By the same token, you don't all-in a high-fury Trynd if the fight would be close enough that two more crits than average would result in a death. W: League has instant turn rates, this spell has a cast time and a rather obvious cast animation. If you know he's about to go for a shout, keep your cursor close to your character and click back for a moment when you see him flail his sword in the air. E: Has a 13-9 second CD. If he ends up unable to auto you after a spin (either because you stunned him, juked him, or used a mobility spell after he spun) he can't keep up with you unless you forget to avoid his shout. R: Not invincibility. 5 seconds of "I can't die". He can cast it under CC, but it doesn't stop him from being CC'd. He can avoid straight up death, but still comes out of the spell on critical HP. But wait, you aren't interested in actually learning how to fight Trynd are you? You just want to bitch and moan because you lost 21 LP to the guy in solo queue.
I don't disagree that the Tryn hate is overblown, but I feel that you really ignored a couple of big issues. Passive: I think a big issue with his passive isn't getting crit at high fury, but getting crit at low fury. A rework to it that made it a guaranteed crit (would need some work on trigger conditions) that he could choose to either use to trade or sacrifice to sustain with Q would probably make it a lot less frustrating, because it would make the game you play with/against his fury bar much more consistent. W: You are correct about the turn rate, but honestly the ability could use an update. Maybe just personal preference for me, but abilities like this and Cass ult just end up feeling inconsistent in situations other than a duel where both players have perfect ping and ability to read the game. Make it work like Shen Q where it slows everyone nearby if they try to walk away from him, then decrease the slow value. The AD decrease is also kinda weird, but I guess it gives him some utility when behind. Wouldn't cry if it was replaced with something else though. E: Fair. Champs like Fiora and Camille do the same thing with their sticking tools but far more consistently. It's a lot of mobility but not inescapable. R: Also fair. Unlike other abilities like Aatrox R, Zil R, Kindred R, it doesn't punish you for attacking him, as the reward is that he will be near death when it runs out. Getting him to 1 HP, then igniting and walking away is sometimes enough to kill him if his Q isn't fully leveled.
: most of that came from {{item:3076}} which was a lazy attempt to deal with adc lifestealing in s7, ofc riot didn't consider what it would do to toplane
Yeah I recall back in S5 playing Thresh and my team leaving me alone to finish off a low health (pre-rework) Akali while they chased the rest of the team. I landed a Flay+Flay Enhanced Auto and she had like 5 HP left... at which point she just sustained off me and 100-0 my health over the next 6 seconds and I really couldn't do anything about it. At that time I wished I had an item that just made it so that I wasn't just a health battery to the enemy carries, because I didn't need a lot more damage if she had less healing. Instead of reducing the amount of healing so that small amounts of damage were more impactful, they just gave partial healing reduction, and made it so that tanks have enough damage to burst.
: Or at least have attacks on camps restore courage
Would break lane Kled, he wouldn't have to interact with his laner to restore courage, just go wack his jungle camps a bit.
: How is it a buff if he never builds the item?
It may not result in a buff to Jax's winrate, but it is a buff to his usage of the item. The item is now stronger on him in any situation, and may actually be worth building now. Jax is also not the only champ impacted and while he may still not build it other champs who built it will find it more powerful; for example, Gnar very rarely built the item before but will now find that it heals him for his W triple proc magic damage which may mean it finds its way into his build more often. Basically the point is that it is a buff to the item, which can result in a buff to the champs who use it but in this case likely just opens it up to a larger champion pool.
: not a buff either
I mean it's definitely a buff. It's very rare for champions to do entirely physical damage, and for all those cases that there is any amount of mixed damage the item is stronger.
Rioter Comments
: The case for Mercury tier below Bronze
Lead Tier - Dense as hell and toxic as fuck.
Rioter Comments
: Why is Malz even brought up though? Malz was and still is unfun and uninteractive to play against.
I think that's kind of the point. Both Shen and Malz still have the same problems they had before the rework, so why not revert them so that the old mains can still enjoy their champ? LeBlanc had problems post rework, but they were new problems and instead of trying to address them they just reverted her.
Jaspers (EUW)
: Is adding a mini Malphite ult to him the right thing to do? A unstoppable engage with a knockup every 12 seconds or less with CDR. The ability would have to be nerfed heavily.
Probably not, I was more suggesting where unstoppable should go if he did get it back. I do miss Unstoppable because it added a lot of skill expression and it feels awesome on a tank as a general ability, but Ornn really doesn't need it. True tanks generally have unstoppable (Sion, Malph, Zac) or some sort of CC resistance (Alistar) in their kits to allow them to to not get stunlocked when doing their job. Some tanks though, like Naut and Ornn through their ults, have a way to do their job without risking stunlock, so giving them unstoppable is just overkill. I'd love for Riot to make another tank in the future who has an unstoppable mechanic like Ornn's original W because it felt awesome, but it should be made more interactive and they should be balanced around it, and Ornn just isn't.
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kile147

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