Stwessed (NA)
: Too many stats/passives for 1 item and far too expensive for a bruiser to build.
Yeah kinda what the guy below said.
stoyo8 (NA)
: I do like the idea of a good juggernaut item and some of the ideas you mentiones are interesting
Thanks! Yeah again, it's more the concepts that the actual item to me.
: that looks insane and not only because it has more words than the bible too many stats to consider and % increases mean that this item will be too strong when you can utilize the stats and complete doodoo when you can't and this isn't the same as buying void staff on zed
Yeah true, I got that feeling after typing it lol. Still some things could be taken out or spread out over two items and give slightly better base stats. Then I would reduce the limiter to EITHER an hp limit, or an mobility limit, instead of both.
: that looks insane and not only because it has more words than the bible too many stats to consider and % increases mean that this item will be too strong when you can utilize the stats and complete doodoo when you can't and this isn't the same as buying void staff on zed
Yeah true, I got that feeling after typing it lol. Still some things could be taken out or spread out over two items and give slightly better base stats. However, the point would be to make it worthless on many champs. I think to trim it down, I'd start with getting rid of the grievous wounds effect and reduce the damage reduction by half. (1% per stack, but 3 % after the item is fully unlocked, capping at 15%)
Saevum (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=kingDeDeDarius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VUk6hBxd,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-15T22:27:56.235+0000) > > Uggh. Went against vayne top today as darius. It was a toxic nightmare that should not be allowed Oh, so you finally met her in person there? how does it feel a solo lane Vayne scaling faster and harder?
It wasn't my first time either xD But yeah, it's pretty overwhelming and makes me want to ff after taking her free harass for more than a minute in lane. You know, since you can't even Q farm a minion without her taking a third of your hp with no way to stop her.
: > [{quoted}](name=kingDeDeDarius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MstMb4I0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-24T12:43:23.633+0000) > > I agree those other ideas (excluding hashinans idea), would be better, but I'm not going to complain about the q damage buff simply because it isn't that big (10 flat throughout game isn't much) and won't put him over the top. But yeah a little more armor or MS would be much more appreciated and I do miss his old e range...and the instant cast :P If were being honest the instant cast was op tho xd
Lol true, but a man can dream amirite? xD
Rioter Comments
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: How are you supposed to comeback against a fed riven?
There really isn't much except teamfights and hugging tower (if she's fed though, she can easily dive many opponents)
: I wouldn't say GUTTED. More like... "Brought in Line". Now, as for the why? There are already ten billion (or what it feels like ten billion) explanations as for why the two are out of line. I would hope we've all seen and heard them enough (From both Top-laners like myself and others) that I wouldn't need to reiterate them here for the ten-billion-and-oneth time. But, I know, we all have SELECTIVE memory, so I guess I'll say it again. For Riven, (Based on MY Experience, this is just MY feelings) it's the fact that she is able to stack the updated form of Conqueror extremely quickly, if the Riven play knows what they're doing with the champion. Her Q, if I'm not mistaken, gives 3 stacks by itself or more if they weave AAs in between each Q use. If I'm wrong on that feel free to correct me. In addition to that, the fact that she is healed for 10% of the pre-mitigation damage dealt allows her to circumvent her previous weakness of having no TRUE sustain (What I consider TRUE sustain is in-combat heals akin to what Juggernauts have) aside from her E shield, since her HP/5 is crap by itself. Then, add in the NIGHTMARE of a design that is Spear of Shojin {{item:3161}} . Because Riot refuses to give up on that "Awakened Dragon" effect, she can basically render the CDs for her abilities (Already made low enough with the 40 to 45% CD reduction every Riven builds in their kit and runes) to be essentially non-existent. Weave enough AA's between attacks and abilities and she can, theoretically, stun-lock you permanently if she uses her Q's knockup CC and W stun correctly. I say theoretically because I would think that even the most professional Riven player would not be able to do that consistently; they're human like the rest of us after all. I fully realize that Spear of Shojin is NOT an problematic item that is EXCLUSIVE to Riven, but it DOES add more problems to her on top of what she already had with the new Conqueror. **** **** **** Now, on to Vayne. IMPO (In my personal opinion) Vayne was doing her job well enough without the 50% reduced cool-down buff on her R she got back in the 9.1 patch. Then, the fact that {{item:3124}} allows her to bypass the 3-hit requirement for her Silver Bolts was basically like giving me a paper cut and pouring lemon juice on it! She was already able to melt Tanks and Juggernauts with the True Damage. So you should build Armor since you can't build Health against her, right? Nope! Guinsoo's also gives Total Armor-Pen! (Yes I know, it is based upon level, but it nonetheless exists) On top of the Last Whisper item ( {{item:3036}} or {{item:3033}} , take your pick) she is sure to have built. So, the two things that you are supposed to build to counter the things she offers, Physical Damage and True Damage, which are supposed to be counter-built via Armor and Health respectively, she renders BOTH of them moot! Her True Damage allows her to bypass high armor, and the Max HP% OF that True Damage allows her to bypass high health! A Riven, for the most part, you CAN Itemize against, as Conqueror, once fully stacked, only converts 10% of her damage to true damage, AND it converts the damage before damage modifiers. This makes both damage increases and damage reductions be 10% less effective. She will deal the same amount of true damage with or without damage modifiers. So, while she WILL have that 10%, the remaining amount of 90%, the lion's share of the damage, will still be Physical, allowing Armor to still serve a purpose against her. However, against Vayne, with all the things I listed above, that kind of logic doesn't work. Now you may say that what I say above only applies when using Conqueror, and that might be true. But Vayne doesn't need to take Conqueror. She already has true damage with her W. She's just fine with something like Press the Attack or some other keystone. But, both of the types of items/stats that you are supposed to build to counteract the things she brings to the table (Physical Damage and True Damage), she has something built into her kit that allows her to bypass them! That blasted Max HP% True Damage, that she is able to proc even faster with {{item:3124}} . THIS is why she is a problem.
Infernape (EUW)
: I wouldn't gut them or keep them as they are. I'd just straight up nerf their asses. With Vayne, I'd make her W an on attack effect so it loses its interactions with Guinsoo's. With Riven I'd either make her Q count as one stack for Conqueror full stop (as in the first Q will stack Conqueror but the rest don't), or I'd straight up reduce her damage slightly.
Also give vayne w a 10 or 15 Mana cost so she needs to be resource conscious
: Adrian is considered one of the best Riven mains yet he loses these matchups a lot. He and TF Blade - who usually plays Jax and Irelia into Riven - always play a 50-50 game (lately I saw TF to win more). Last time I watched Boxbox stream he played vs Darius and got stomped. Next game he stomped Darius. These are just random examples ofc, however, no high elo Riven main would call these matchups "really easy", especially Teemo and Vayne. >A good riven beats darius jax panth morde garen really easily. I'd rather say: A good Riven has a good chance to beat Jax, Darius.... It always depends on the players. If a good Riven facing a bad Jax ofc it will be a stomp. However, it is not because Riven vs Jax, it is because good player vs bad player. With equally skilled players these matchups are not one-sided at all. Riven is op now because of her synergy with Conq, DD an SoS, not because she got some superbuff a few patches ago. People just did not care to learn the matchup vs Riven when she was an underdog. She had the same abilities, same mechanics so everyone had the chance to learn her range, her cooldowns, etc. However, Darius mains for example did not care about that at all, they just enjoyed the fact they could brainlessly run it down and win. Now they cannot run it down so they started to cry for Riven nerfs. I have not met a complainer yet (no joke) who lost to Riven because "she is so op". Last time a Master tier Garen main started a thread here "nerf riven she so op blablabla"... he happened to play vs Adrian and lost the game. I watched the replay on Adrian's stream. Mr. Master Garen forgot to mention that he played like a boosted monkey, made more mistakes than I could count, yet was not solo killed a single time. It is always easier to blame the enemy champion than learn from our mistakes. My absolute favorit though when people rant about how super easy to play Riven, meanwhile A, they literally never played Riven B, played Riven and got humiliated badly. I have not seen a single one of them who actually played Riven in his elo and won his matchup like he should have with an op champion. I barely see anyone who actually played her then said she is easy. I do not know what is worse though. I mean how reliable a complainer statement is "Riven is braindead easy" when his 8 games with Riven were 4/16; 1/10, 0/6, etc. I support the freedom of speech but these people are just clueless clowns.
Great, no one gives af about your one sided anecdotal evidence when STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT winrates AND banrates AND play rates PROVE riven to be broken. Stop even trying to defend that stupid arrogant styled champ. It's pathetic
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=no8wZqh0,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2019-04-24T23:28:10.454+0000) > > I dont play her, so no shit im going to do bad on her. > And Urgot has counters that solo can use. Riven on the other hand really doesnt have any as it stands (only ones that a general cheese counters to any melee, which is hardly an argument) Okay, so let's ignore {{champion:126}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:518}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:43}} for now. {{champion:78}} and {{champion:58}} cannot lose lane vs Riven unless the player is superbad or ganked a lot. So "doesnt have any counter" does not stand at all. Not to mention any of these {{champion:114}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:122}} can go toe to toe with her and its not even the whole list. Many other champions have a good chance if played properly e.g. {{champion:86}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:80}} and so forth.
She beats almost all of those champs past a certain skill level, regardless of their actual skill. The agency to win or lose is almost entirely in her hands. It's on her to screw up. If they play perfectly and she plays perfectly, she will win 90% of the timw
Yets4240 (NA)
: Also, LMFAO at Urgot "OP for years." His rework was in the end of season 7, start of season 8. He's only existed for a year, and it wasn't until two two patches ago, 9.6 that he was changed into his current state, and then subsequently nerfed the following patch quite hard, as he lost around 50% of his playrate, 6% of his winrate, and has since fallen to a sub 49% winrate. Worth noting that before he became big in pro play due to every other top laner getting nerfed to oblivion, and him being picked to counter snowball heavy lanes by simply not dying to their early cheese, he was also at a 48% winrate, and was considered a hard to use, barely played (1-1.5% pickrate) and mediocre champion. Even when he saw competitive use, he still had pretty normal stats for a top laner, and wasn't even the best until patch 9.6 for all of ***one single patch,*** before getting nerfed ***again*** after he was previously gutted so that they could launch that mini-rework. Riven has been the #1 champion in top lane, or the #2 champion since at least patch 8.24, from what I can see, or just slightly longer than the entire season so far, with no nerfs or changes announced nor in sight.
The dude's been smoking the reefer. I ROFL'd real hard when I saw him write "urgot op for years"
: > Gutted, no questions asked. They had their time in the limelight avoiding nerfs. Now its their turn to feel like trash. This whole skill argument is the whole reason why Riven hasn't been nerfed. Gotta keep the mains happy somehow. It seems Riven is already trash in your hands. I mean, you managed to 0/4 with a theoretically superOP Riven... I wonder what result would it be with a gutted Riven. 0/40? I guess Urgot being OP for years does not bother you for some "strange" reason. LOL
Urgot OP for years? You are delusional. He was straight dog crap for many more years than he's been strong. Riven, on the other hand, had never truly been weak (only relatively worse in some metas and in less experienced hands) and vayne seems to be viable or broken at least 6-9 months most years
: Vayne w passive percent health true damage btw
Not the right kind of passive (though I hate her W and it needs an active with like 10 Mana cost or something). We're talking the passive slot
: Strongest: {{champion:63}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:157}} Weakest: {{champion:103}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:26}}
Why is no one mentioning darius's? Like, Kat's and vlad's don't even compare in the slightest
: I think with items Yas has the strongest passive. But if you look at just the passive alone, Darius easily has the strongest. A DOT plus insane AD gain
: {{champion:157}} Dude is handed 2000 gold worth of free stats and a shield for walking.
I think with items Yas has the strongest passive. But if you look at just the passive alone, Darius easily has the strongest. A DOT plus insane AD gain
: Riot about the Darius buffs
I agree those other ideas (excluding hashinans idea), would be better, but I'm not going to complain about the q damage buff simply because it isn't that big (10 flat throughout game isn't much) and won't put him over the top. But yeah a little more armor or MS would be much more appreciated and I do miss his old e range...and the instant cast :P
Leetri (EUW)
: For argument's sake, what would those stats be? Juggernauts want HP, AD and resistances, no? What prevents say Master Yi, Irelia or Jax from building that item? They also want those stats, and now you got mobile slayers building juggernaut items.
False, they want some of those stats, but if you put the stat wall high enough (and scaling throughout the game so juggers can still get the items they want early), they won't be able to make great use after a certain point because those champs also need to build at least half damage items to be truly effective. I also believe adding negative stats until certain conditions are met would be cool also (or negative stats after a certain action is taken). For example, an ad/hp juggernaut item that personifies bulkiness that causes wielders to lose 75% of total AD after making any dash or leap beyond a certain range (so that illaoi wouldn't be excluded) for 3-4 seconds and slows the user by 10% in such a case. Then give it something like 150 hp, and allow it to gain 50 ho with each kill up to a total of like 5 stacks, and give it a high base AD value (80-100 and maybe an AP version for ap juggers) with grievous wounds or damage reduction per stack that it applies (similar to cleaver but reducing enemy damage instead of increasing the damage they take). Make the item melee only. It would be the scaling type item for juggernauts that sort of gives "weight training" I think this would be the right way to limit juggernaut item abuse by other classes. This way, champs like Yas, yi, or tryn could buy it, but would be extremely hobbled after any dash they do
: NERF DARIUS
Lol OP, I hate to say it, but you are ignorant. Darius winrate is rather meh (like, did you really call Darius S tier? ROFL), telegraphed and slow with relatively LOW range (did you seriously call him high range), slowest base AS in game, no defensive steroids, zero mobility, middling late game scaling, easily locked down and bursted or kited to eternity, and loads of time to react to his dunk. You can make any champ sound broken by only listing strengths. With your weak reasoning I could also say "no champ should have loads of damage, cc, and mobility (pyke), or "tons of damage and mobility with some cc (vayne)" or really any combination of strengths. Just look at riven. A good riven has very few true counters and almost no real counterplay due to insanely high damage, craptons of mobility, two sources of cc, ranged execute air ult that also gives a long stat buff, lowish CDs, but made even worse by current runes and items like spear of shojin. Yet you whine about someone as objectively fair as darius (who has gobtons of counterplay, even for champs countered by him) who hasn't even had a 50% winrate for some time
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=ContDeCaterinca1,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=noTsEvEN,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-21T11:02:02.671+0000) > > ADCs with enough peel are nearly untouchable by assassins/divers in teamfights. ADCs without peel die 0.0002 seconds after a fight was initiated Of course they gonna need peel. Of course if your adc positions perfectly and you have tons of peel in your team, it's gonna be hard to kill the adc. Most of the time it's not the case. > > mages, depending on range, are safe in laning phase and most are safe in teamfights. That is just not true... most mid laners are assassins/ap bruisers/mages ap bruisers and assassins have tons of mobility and damage to counter mages. > > Divers and juggernauts suck late game, assassins suck late game Jagguernauts like tryndamere, yorick, nasus and olaf are insanely strong late game. Assassins pretty much oneshot every single squishy at every single point of the game. There is so much lethality in this game, how can you even say assassins suck?
Did....you just call tryn a juggernaut? That misstatement alone makes me highly question any statement or counter argument you make
7ckngMad (NA)
: Darius is in a good spot right now I don't think bluffing him would be right.
He's kind of weak actually, though admittedly not terrible. I wouldn't characterize him as being in a good spot
Moody P (NA)
: Darius should have power moved away from dunk burst
I'm torn on the suggestion by OP. On the one hand, I'd love Darius to be viable in all elos. On the other hand, darius's dunk and stacks define his identity and experience and weakening either would make him rather bland imo. Not sure though.
Saezio (EUNE)
: IDK, I like champions having clear strengths and weaknesses . I would like for Riot to balance all champions to be viable in Diamond elo (not pro-play, imagine having to buff trynda so hard to make him viable in pro xD) and when the plebs cry tell them "Git gud", but since they aren't going to do that, I don't want to see all champions being homogenised to a generic mass. Just an opinion, plis no h8
: juggernauts altogether shouldnt have assassin damage with tank stats. they need their power spread evenly so that it doesnt the ult/passive power doesnt take 70% priority.
False. You're looking at it too one sidedly. Assassins have damage AND mobility (usually doubled or tripled as engage, disengage, or defensive for dodging, just look at fizz, lb, and Zed). Tanks have durability AND loads of cc or other utility, and generally better mobility than juggers. Juggers have damage AND durability. They have way less mobility than assassins, and a little less mobility and a lit less cc than the average tank. What you suggest would serve to make juggers even more mediocre and good at absolutely nothing. Either that or you would make them synonymous with normal bruisers like vi and Camille who have solid damage, mobility, durability, and utility, but are not excellent in either category except maybe mobility.
: Being tanky is not a juggernaut thing it is a bruiser thing and Irelia is a bruiser.
False. If mobile bruisers with better dps and just as good of burst and arguably better cc than juggernauts, also have near equal defensive stats and abilities, why ever play a juggernaut? In fact, what inherent weakness besides not having ranged autos is there for such champs. Heck, champs like Jax and irelia don't even have weak early games anymore.
: Because she's not as tanky as a juggernaut?
She'll last as long as or longer than Darius under brief but insanely high burst situations if she times her W right. Darius has no defensive abilities or mobility to escape, chase, or dodge. I'd say the OP makes a fair point
Moody P (NA)
: BC is supposed to be a generic core item and champions like Riven are supposed to out scale tanks eventually. Why nerf an item that's already pretty garbage?
Even if this change was implemented, and I'm rather neutral on the idea so far, it should be a scaling limiter throughout the game, otherwise it is too steep. Instead of 3k hp at all stages, it would be better if the barrier started low and scaled higher with time until like 20 minutes maxing at 3k
: Nowadays every game consists of me watching a Vayne 1v5.
Watching from gray screen sadly
Hotarµ (NA)
: Every single Juggernaut in the game is in a healthy state ATM with the exception of Mordekaiser, who is currently getting reworked. Garen, Darius, Illaoi, and Volibear all sport winrates going from 48-50% across all ELOs which is good considering their playrates.
Nah. They don't all even have 48% winrate, and compared to champs who are actually strong, they are pretty weak. Champs like riven and vayne, who are needlessly buffed, have very limited types of counterplay, and can make up for many mistakes through get out of jail free cards and have high play rates than any juggernaut currently. Those are the true problems. Juggernauts are actually pretty weak right now overall
: Can juggernauts get defense buffs?
Uggh. Went against vayne top today as darius. It was a toxic nightmare that should not be allowed
Kalikain (NA)
: I'm excited for the Vayne Nerfs
Dang...you got my hopes up that there were some on the pbe...
Snowic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=5 Dollar Holler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xmHPl27z,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-14T13:33:00.765+0000) > > I cannot relate to OP, because I regularly stomp Hecarims. > > Edited to add: If he's that OP, ban him. Lmao. Literally never have to see him in a game ever if you don't want. "If a champ is op ban them" well gee you only get one ban and still have to deal with {{champion:92}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:238}}
Those are all 10x worse than hec. He's not even op. Strong maybe, but by no means broken, toxic, otherwise uncounterable or unfun to play against
: I cannot relate to OP, because I regularly stomp Hecarims. Edited to add: If he's that OP, ban him. Lmao. Literally never have to see him in a game ever if you don't want.
Heck isn't that bad. He really doesn't have much damage outside of initial burst and has very little natural tankiness whatsoever.
: ADC: "The People living at Bot lane are the 4 of us, soon to be the 2 of us!"
: Notre Dame is Burning
This is very sad :(
: Darius bleed fix idea
This would be an interesting form of grievous wounds, but I kind of like it, since his base bleed damage is actually pretty puny and is insanely weak against things like dorans shield
: Why are you trying to buff Darius when he doesn't need it?
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HpEe3HPX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-14T20:21:00.921+0000) > > Why are you trying to buff Darius when he doesn't need it? Darius is weak and only going to continue to get weaker as those around him get buffed. People in low elos only think he is strong because they don't take advantage of his clear and abundant counterplay.
: Ahris pupil shape: cat like or human like? Which one is canon?
: False, that is only one definition of an execute. Executes do not "always kill unless target is immune". For instance, one classic execute is a percent missing hp execute. Two classic champs that have that are garen and Elise (ult and basic ability, respectively, and now Kaylee has a very strong execute. It doesn't guarantee a kill, but rather helps to finish of targets who are already low. On the other hand, abilities like Darius ult are considered to be executes because there is MAJOR incentive to use it as a finishing blow, because otherwise, the ability can't continue to be used and becomes rather mediocre unless there is only one target in the first place, in which case it can be used at whatever time is most appropriate. Cho's ult is, like darius's, an execute because of a MAJOR incentive, because if he doesn't finish the enemy champ, he doesn't get the bonus ho, which severely affects his scaling in a negative way if he consistently screws up
I. Fact, executes the way you mention them, like urgot's and pyke's, are a very new form of execute that didn't really exist until a couple seasons ago or so
: Garen, cho and darius dont have executes though? A big enough shield will block their ultimates. Execute will always kill unless target is immune. That being said, cho does have an indicator for when his ulti can kill
False, that is only one definition of an execute. Executes do not "always kill unless target is immune". For instance, one classic execute is a percent missing hp execute. Two classic champs that have that are garen and Elise (ult and basic ability, respectively, and now Kaylee has a very strong execute. It doesn't guarantee a kill, but rather helps to finish of targets who are already low. On the other hand, abilities like Darius ult are considered to be executes because there is MAJOR incentive to use it as a finishing blow, because otherwise, the ability can't continue to be used and becomes rather mediocre unless there is only one target in the first place, in which case it can be used at whatever time is most appropriate. Cho's ult is, like darius's, an execute because of a MAJOR incentive, because if he doesn't finish the enemy champ, he doesn't get the bonus ho, which severely affects his scaling in a negative way if he consistently screws up
: Why in the absolute mother fuck are all assassins so mother fucking safe
I do agree damage and mobility are both too high, and that most of those champs are too safe. I'd just like to add in champs like irelia, vayne, and riven
: WAY to balance mobile champion Jax who's victory condition is sticking (make him more fair)
Yeah this would be awful and make him absurdly more broken and oppressive
: Kayle and Constant Nerfs
Um look at winrates dude. Lmao and the fact that you lumped Darius in there is astounding. Sure, he does burst damage...after he walks up to you and puts five stacks on you and if he manages to keep you in range, all while eating damage and hoping he doesn't die. Lmao darius's winrate is actually kind of bad too. Kaylee on the other hand, who I do like to play some, has been a monster due to a surprisingly safe early game and amazing scaling regardless of whether or not she gets put behind
Moody P (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ArHjIvJJ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T17:59:22.523+0000) > > Says the Darius fangirl? Darius is under powered Fiora is underpowered Illaoi is underpowered 3 skillshot 3 weak champions :thinking: you're finished
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ArHjIvJJ,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T18:01:12.351+0000) > > Darius is under powered > Fiora is underpowered > Illaoi is underpowered > > 3 skillshot 3 weak champions > > :thinking: you're finished Moody makes a good point actually :/ It's almost like skill shots are only good on champs with some combination of ridiculous burst/BPS, range, insane mobility, chain cc, or insane defensive steroids, and that, except for fiora, easily kited champs with skill shots and nothing truly to add besides damage and being a mediocre meat shield, or incredibly vulnerable. this is not actually an argument against skill shots for juggernauts, but rather an argument saying that other classes are fricken power creeped beyond reason and don't have reasonable or clear EXPLOITABLE weaknesses. Aka, the Zed's, rivens, vayne's, and jax's of this world
: With all the talk of bad reworks, can we take a moment to appreciate how perfect Urgot's has become?
I do love reworked urgot, though he does need a slight trimming right now as he is a tad OP
: Randuin's Omen & Frozen Heart, Thoughts?
I don't know about removing the active on randuins reducing the armor by so much with frozen heart, especially with those being a big part of the items' identities and considering how they are already weak, they could just receive some buffs. I do like the idea of having certain effects scale with total bonus armor and other such tanky stats. If they had poor or mediocre base stats, but scaled really well when combined with other tank items, that would be nice as it would help tanks and juggernauts perform as intended and last longer in fights, but prevent abusets like Yas, tryn, fizz, ekko, and future abusers from ruining the items like they have done to tank items in the past
: > [{quoted}](name=Risk of Fate,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fgQQahhF,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-04-10T21:39:07.436+0000) > > {{champion:22}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:498}} I agree with the first two, however I personally think Xayah could use a little buff.
> [{quoted}](name=JustDonnyy,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fgQQahhF,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-04-10T21:41:47.052+0000) > > I agree with the first two, however I personally think Xayah could use a little buff. Ashe seems pretty fair and balanced overall.
Ilovemobas (EUNE)
: {{champion:63}} actually. I used to think he was broken as fk but almost all of his damage can be dogded without much difficulty. The tradeoff is a huge ammount of damage including % damage should brand manage to land an ability chain on you.
> [{quoted}](name=Ilovemobas,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fgQQahhF,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-04-10T20:25:21.518+0000) > > {{champion:63}} actually. I used to think he was broken as fk but almost all of his damage can be dogded without much difficulty. The tradeoff is a huge ammount of damage including % damage should brand manage to land an ability chain on you. Not to mention he is very immobile and has no innate tankiness or Shields, and only one single target stun, so he's vulnerable to almost every assassin or high burst mage with better range or more like adcs
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kingDeDeDarius

Level 55 (NA)
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