: Well... He is a juggernaut. Overpowered and annoying is the theme of the class. The only difference is now he's _actually_ a juggernaut, instead of being a buggy mess of ideas that didn't go together.
False, juggernauts have tended to be sub 50% winrate as a class overall, with usually one or two exceptions at a time at most. There have been times when zero juggernauts had 50% or better. That being said, some are definitely too strong right now. But you want to look at actual broken classes historically speaking and over the long auto, look at assassins and adcs. There was like one meta when juggers were OP back in parts of 2015 and 2016.
: > [{quoted}](name=Relax I am noob,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4gvTYKKw,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-13T14:23:06.027+0000) > > https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HlvtIPzPdt2usKs/giphy.gif > > I found {{champion:23}} to be a hard counter to him though Just play Phase Rush Veigar, the man cant do shit to you at all
I actually like to run ghost on veigat because it's awesome, but phase rush AND ghost might be even better! Thanks for the tip
Rioter Comments
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kitsune Kawaii,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mMELEEaQ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-13T03:46:19.194+0000) > > I mean 55% winrate and 15% pick rate > That's the far the highest stats I've ever seen since I played the game for a new champion to be fair, morde has been a meme for a while so he would get a lot more attention, expect his win rate to stabilize within a few days, atm a lot of people don't know what he does
I stomped one today, only one I really played against. He was actually doing ok as a midlaner against zed and was better than even kill/death, but as darius it's only too nice when an opponent wants to bring the fight to you and stay there lol
: I mean 55% winrate and 15% pick rate That's the far the highest stats I've ever seen since I played the game for a new champion
Eh, I don't know about that. And it's not at all uncommon for new or newly reworked champs to have super inflated winrates, even for a long time after. That being said, sure, Morse is broken or likely is, but they always are for about a month or two after release at least
: Darius Q CD / Power shift
I wouldn't say that I'm against this proposal. Personally, I'd rather see the telegraphed time reduce to zero at max rank, as the whole point of it being telegraphed was to give counterplay DURING lane phase. As is, Dar has some of the best counterplay in game, and it wouldn't hurt to scale down the q delay to zero so that he isn't so outclassed as the game goes on
: > [{quoted}](name=Hypochondria9,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TAvuAmRp,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-04T15:10:12.850+0000) > > What would the kids look like? loool good question
> [{quoted}](name=xXFeathersFlyXx,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TAvuAmRp,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-06-04T16:05:23.982+0000) > > loool good question I don't know what Elise should look like, but kha should be a gentlemanly greenish praying mantis (similar style to the old gentlemen cho), and in the splash art Elise should be eating his head lovingly. I know it will never pass, but I'd love that honestly
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Overlord Mengsk,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TAvuAmRp,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-04T14:45:20.899+0000) > > Fuck off with your ships! There is no lore to back it up. So please, do us all a favor, and fuck right off. Whoa dude. You don't have to agree with the OP, but literally no reason for you to be an ASSHOLE either. Just because there is no more doesn't mean they wouldn't fit thematically from the insect/arachnid standpoint. And since they are just skins, AKA, ALTERNATE REALITIES, they DON'T NEED to be thematically connected through lore you piece of garbage. What do you think dunk master Darius skin is? It has absofrickenlutely nothing to do with Darius' lore, yet it is great nonetheless due to his physical playstyles of "dunking" his opponents. Your overreaction about a mere innocent SUGGESTION just shows what a dweeb you are.
Divin1ty (EUW)
: No, but because you played it wrong. Darius is a pub stomper, that capitalises on dumb mistakes. Play better and he is very easy to face.
> [{quoted}](name=Divin1ty,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bXWgvjeF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-04T09:59:21.735+0000) > > No, but because you played it wrong. > Darius is a pub stomper, that capitalises on dumb mistakes. > Play better and he is very easy to face. What you said, plus the OP makes no sense lol. I have no clue what he/she is actually even trying to say xD
: Fiddlesticks rework: Melee or ranged
This may be a stupid idea, so just let me know, don't hate. But what if they made him melee, but, removed his current dark winds silencing ability as is, and instead, put it on his his passive as an enhanced auto (with like 600 range or something) that gives him dark winds and combines with his current passive. So if he sits still for like 3 seconds or whatever, he not only gains a burst of movement speed, but his next auto becomes ranged (think poppy) and has the added damage and silence effect of dark winds. In return, the silence effect would be some what shortened by say, 10-30% if current duration, and he would gain a new ability in place of it. As an aside, I thought it would be cool if he could "link" his abilities with this new move which would be a brief ring-like aoe effect around him (similar range to aurelion sol, but more width) in which he slows enemies hit in that range, and for a couple seconds after, he can initiate his drain or his fear and the ability will link through them to hit multiple enemies champs. I.e., say he is botlane against support and adc, and after a .75 second telegraphed W (he can move around while using it), he hits the enemy jinx and blitzcrank, then sends his drain at blitz and links to jinx while she is marked and within 1000 units of fiddlesticks, thus allowing him to damage and heal off from two champs with his drain. Likewise if he hit three enemy champs with his W, he could use his fear on one, and all the marked champs within 1000 units would be feared for the duration. Anyways, let me know if that sounds stupid or kinda cool
: add a trade all button for event tokens
AGREED. I was just thinking that same thing last night. So frustrating
Moody P (NA)
: Irelia should not have a 3in1 steroid
I agree Moody, tbh, or at least give her reasonable Mana costs. As they are she spams for eternity and might as well be garen except with an otherwise far more favorable power budget. Can't think of many irelias that actually do worse than their lane opponent by the end of the game
: It literally takes her 5 stacks for it to be relevant, there is no way to keep nerfing it anymore while keeping it relevant. Irelia is unfixable.
Except unlike someone like Darius, she is hyper, and I mean HYPER, mobile intra fights, and has far better target access and can outplay almost any opponent with ease, even counters. Not to mention, she can stack passive in mind and monsters unlike Darius, which is ridiculous to say the least, considering all of her insane tools and the fact that she might as well be manaless since she never goes oom despite incessant spamming that gives everyone, including teammates headaches.
: > [{quoted}](name=Volkswachter,realm=NA,application-id=GgNYATV4,discussion-id=EkPWs2Iz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-26T13:35:32.750+0000) > > TBH I always beat darius with Neeko top. Early low-mana impact harass with E and Q, even at level 2 your combo will take him down to about 45% HP. Teemo is a good counter pick to darius as well, and I think Yorick, Jayce and Kayle are pretty good too. Yeah, Yorick, Neeko, and Teemo, are definitely great counters to Darius, and I'm sure Kayle and Jayce are too. There's nothing worse than a tank fed Darius. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
Those champs literally lay bricks on Darius til he's 6 feet under, especially good neekos and good teemos. Heck, even aatrox, especially after his recent mini rework absolutely craps on Darius. Gnar too. If you play mundo you just sit back and farm safely until you outscale. Kayle harasses and beats far of she's good (he has a hard time getting a 3-4 kill lead by the end of laning, and if he doesn't do that he essentially lost). If you're an evil person you just take vayne and make Darius non existent. Also a good fiora goes even in lane and massively outscales later on against a good Darius. Really, Darius just craps on tanks and garen, and almost all of them can play safe and go on to contribute more to teamfights than far.
: facing darius is an insta loss
So you're complaint ng here about Darius when you openly admit there are worse offendera, in your opinion, that need banning. Sounds like you just personally don't like the champ, which is no reason to nerf.
Cloud273 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Polaris I,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hfKI9rq1,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-20T21:42:44.439+0000) > > **Ezreal’s mana cost aren’t that high** because he can use w+ability to gain an equal amount of mana back but he spans his spells so much which is why he needs it. He also has a really fat hit box on his w and his e is not a skill shot especially since it throws a homing bolt at his w. > > Personally I find ezreal to be extremely strong, borderline busted, since he has high ratios and ridiculous base damage (mostly his ult) he is more of a mage to me that can kite and burst and hard to catch more than an adc I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this. If you're forced to rush tear you have high mana costs. And again if the enemy dodges his skillshots or he misses them what's the point of having all this damage? With other adc's all u have to do is auto attack a few times and I do just as much damage (assuming I have crit). And he has a hard time hitting squishies because tankier champions will just block all the skillshots for them.
All wrong. As a long time far main, I can tell you, ez is one of the hardest adcs to catch and kill for an immobile champ, even with ghost. The only ones harder are probably vayne and possibly kalista. I'd say he kites immobile champs even harder than trist or jhin, because with ghost they can be ez to catch. He has plenty of damage and can spam his abilities at a better range than most adc AAs. Combined with iceborn gauntlet, he is super hard to pin down by any immobile champ
Zeldä (NA)
: if a team mate declares her, I wont ban her. But I will if no one does before banning session
Zeldä (NA)
: I ban Yuumi so my teammates cant play her, because shes garbage.
Yuumi is strong w In the right hands and when paired with the right champs/players. And they hotfix buffed her, so her winrate has probably improved due to that and more experience. Unless you're playing ranked, you should allow your teammates to play with her so they can get better and you can get a better feel for her playstyles and matchups as well, rather than you just being a jerk and making boneheaded assumptions. Last night had a yuumi help me completely turn around a match as darius against two super fed hyper carries and a solid midlaner and support, while the rest of my team was compost. On the other hand, a yuumi completely stomped my team the other night when she latched onto a teemo who purchased gunblade and DD and became unkillable and inescapable due to her help
: Zac Revert
It's because you are rather the exception. Long time Zac mains have been disappointed in the rework, most especially his ult. They've wanted it changed back because to them it is far more fun and was a part of his identity. I'm no Zac player, but I fully support this change due to how badly the Zac mains have wanted it and for how long. Riot is doing the right thing here.
: > [{quoted}](name=Toxenius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Q9ZXAEw,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-17T02:19:32.016+0000) > > Like I said, I DO do that, but most of the time late game never comes either we win without my assistance or we lose because i couldn't' help sooner. A strategy shouldn't be "hide and pray" i feel. nasus can at least zone with his aoe, Kayle doesn't even have a decent base stat for autoing minions She is very good in team fights as more of a semi backline because by herself she can be very squishy plus her ult works well in team fights You have to really team up to use her correctly and try to avoid 1v1 that might get you caught out by a even more enemy Also she has very powerful wave clear later thats why I said smart plays defending base because they just keep clearing waves fast enough that the enemies dont have minions to get twr with
I will say this tho, while you are right in that she shouldn't be alone due to being ganked, she can probably 1v1 any champ in the game including fed fioras, kogs, Trista, vayne, Zed's, LBs, and fizz's, etc so long as she times ult properly
: Actually late game champs like trust and vayne don't do nearly as much as Kayle once Kayle actually gets to late game with some items. She will straight up murder either of them and possibly even 1v2 them. Not sure how she'd do against a late game kog if the fight started in AA range for both of them
And to build on what I'm saying, I've destroyed fed vayne's before in 1-2 secs while taking almost no damage
Kanzler (NA)
: Considering that she is useless until level 11, she isnt strong enough late to take the huge risk early. You can pick any other "late game" champ and not have anywhere near the same liability early while still doing just as much later
Actually late game champs like trust and vayne don't do nearly as much as Kayle once Kayle actually gets to late game with some items. She will straight up murder either of them and possibly even 1v2 them. Not sure how she'd do against a late game kog if the fight started in AA range for both of them
waypist (NA)
: Yuumi is the best champion ever released.
Had a game last night with yuumi on my team and I was Darius top lane. Other lanes were getting smashed but I did ok and really rekt their tryndamere top lane. At first I was a little miffed because the enemy kassadi and Tristana were super fed and started reking me in fights through sheer dps and kiting since most of my teammates were really far behind and so weren't being focused. Our cait, who yuumi was attached to for the beginning of the game, was next to useless, and so they both fed. However, yuumi recognized I was the only one who had a fighter's chance and attached to me. Let's just say I went from something like 7/5 or 7/6 to like 16/6 or 16/7, and was absolutely shredding them with yuumi. The enemy team actually surrendered after I rekt them in a fight, never even had to take the two inner towers and only destroyed one outer base tower. Keep in mind that at one point the enemy kass was 9/1 and enemy Tristana was 10/1. Two super fed late game carries who had good peel from a support (don't remember which one actually) and a solid jungler. Suffice to say, yuumi turned me into a super soldier and we basically 2v4 or 2v5 and either won, or did a ton of damage before dying so my other teammates could come cleanup. It was insane. She gave me everything I needed: long range poke projectile that slowed them and allowed me to catch them. Shielding and healing for longer survivability to stack bleed. Speed boost, which with ghost, made me nearly unkitable, more damage, and a fricken aoe root with her ult that just made it super easy to stack and dunk and land q heals in tight situations. All in all, I never had more fun playing Darius since I started in 2013. To sum up my rambling, I totally agree with you OP! Yuumi is a blast, not just for her, but whoever she attaches too
: Hard to kill squishies
While I think the new aatrox is inherently better, I recognize that is somewhat based on personal tastes and I did enjoy playing old aatrox from time to time. Anyways, my real point is that you make some great points. The only counterargument really is that tryn and Yi have maintained more popularity than old aatrox, but I would agree have very toxic gameplay designs in general. Though as a Darius main I don't personally have too many issues with either of them except when I play poorly or have a bad teamcomp
: > [{quoted}](name=BoRnToKiLL666,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BFkq7wQA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-16T21:43:48.675+0000) > > i would just main janna/lulu, you literally get carried to at least gold 1 within 1 year by playing them! {{champion:117}} {{champion:40}} But mah 1500 hours of {{champion:55}} experience! {{sticker:sg-janna}}
> [{quoted}](name=Queen Weeß,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BFkq7wQA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-16T21:51:43.042+0000) > > But mah 1500 hours of {{champion:55}} experience! > {{sticker:sg-janna}} Honestly, if you just wanna have fun, then don't worry about it. If you want to climb, then I don't know Kat's broader stats, but I don't feel she's the best assassin right now. Sure she can get fed and such, but she feels quite easy to shut down and peel against when playing against her as a Darius main or when playing almost any tanks. Other assassins have more reliable means of bursting priority targets (zed, fizz, etc) and are much harder to peel while usually having at least some form of cc
: A good idea of how to change vayne (in my opinion)
I think what they need to do is make it an actual ability rather than an op af second passive. I think she should have to activate it so that it costs 15 Mana per use and make it have a two second cooldowns if used more than 3 times in a give 10 second period. Or make it use Mana and give it charges similar to corki R or heimer Q. She could store more charges per Q rank up (say starting at two, going up by 1 per Q rank and 1 per ult rank up). At level 3 ult rank, she could unlock unlimited bolts (similar to now) making her only gaited by Mana consumption and AS. This way she could actually be a decently skilled champ with resource rather than a right click bit with Q spam and easy self peel. The Mana consumption wouldn't be outrageous, but she'd have to be conscious of it when farming and when in fights
: Wrong. I, as a Darius main, don't generally mind quinn (except for a short while like two years back when armor pen was busted). Here are the worst ranged champs to fight against as an I'm mobile top laner: -vayne (I know ganks exist and help, but people who pick vayne top are not human in my eyes, they are purely sadistic monsters) -gnar (used to be manageable and competitive but in gnars favor, but for whatever reason seems like an impossible matchup now as darius) - jayce (not terrible if you don't feed him a kill before first back or st least go 1 for 1. Can be stomped with a couple kills and counterbuilding really helps) Honorable mention: -Teemo (can be stomped, but can be pure evil as well and super tilting, especially in good hands, but overall a pretty fair champ) -kayle (super frustrating if you don't build at least a four kill lead by lvl 11 which feels not right to have to stomp a champ that bad in order to be ahead. Also decent at kiting and poking Darius even in early game if in careful hands) Not too bad to face against: -quin -vlad -urgot (just from my personal experience, but I realize many hate fighting him)
Point is, we don't scream about every ranged top laner, but if there is one to scream about, it'd vayne that sick trash champ
: Incoming crying top laners screaming “ranged champion ranged champion, it’s op cause ranged champion”
Wrong. I, as a Darius main, don't generally mind quinn (except for a short while like two years back when armor pen was busted). Here are the worst ranged champs to fight against as an I'm mobile top laner: -vayne (I know ganks exist and help, but people who pick vayne top are not human in my eyes, they are purely sadistic monsters) -gnar (used to be manageable and competitive but in gnars favor, but for whatever reason seems like an impossible matchup now as darius) - jayce (not terrible if you don't feed him a kill before first back or st least go 1 for 1. Can be stomped with a couple kills and counterbuilding really helps) Honorable mention: -Teemo (can be stomped, but can be pure evil as well and super tilting, especially in good hands, but overall a pretty fair champ) -kayle (super frustrating if you don't build at least a four kill lead by lvl 11 which feels not right to have to stomp a champ that bad in order to be ahead. Also decent at kiting and poking Darius even in early game if in careful hands) Not too bad to face against: -quin -vlad -urgot (just from my personal experience, but I realize many hate fighting him)
: When will Riot nerf Trinity Force?
: 20% REMAINING COOL DOWN of basic abilities it takes more than 5 autos to refund your abilities. SoS is trash on nocturne anyway and his r isn't always up. His fear is not instant btw
Less than five autos actually. The autos will reduce it by 80-100% and natural CD will make the difference. Never will it take more than 5 autos to reduce 100% of the cd of a basic ability if each auto reduces by 20%, that's just awful math. Also, he had pretty good AS, and blocking even a single ability can turn the whole fight pretty easily (aka, when im Darius and low hp and noc blocks my Q or pull or ult, completely screwing me over, now imagine him using it twice in one fight). Not really complaining about noc though, I don't mind him much.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: buff jungle exp back?
On the flip side, pre jungle xp nerf, a jgler could hit lvl 2 or 3 before you even hit level 2 in toplane and easily can you and destroy you less than two mins into the game with no drawback if the gank failed. On second thought, your idea to revert the co nerfs sounds not too healthy for the game.
: Too many stats/passives for 1 item and far too expensive for a bruiser to build.
Yeah kinda what the guy below said.
stoyo8 (NA)
: ***
Thanks! Yeah again, it's more the concepts that the actual item to me.
: that looks insane and not only because it has more words than the bible too many stats to consider and % increases mean that this item will be too strong when you can utilize the stats and complete doodoo when you can't and this isn't the same as buying void staff on zed
Yeah true, I got that feeling after typing it lol. Still some things could be taken out or spread out over two items and give slightly better base stats. Then I would reduce the limiter to EITHER an hp limit, or an mobility limit, instead of both.
: that looks insane and not only because it has more words than the bible too many stats to consider and % increases mean that this item will be too strong when you can utilize the stats and complete doodoo when you can't and this isn't the same as buying void staff on zed
Yeah true, I got that feeling after typing it lol. Still some things could be taken out or spread out over two items and give slightly better base stats. However, the point would be to make it worthless on many champs. I think to trim it down, I'd start with getting rid of the grievous wounds effect and reduce the damage reduction by half. (1% per stack, but 3 % after the item is fully unlocked, capping at 15%)
Saevum (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=kingDeDeDarius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VUk6hBxd,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-15T22:27:56.235+0000) > > Uggh. Went against vayne top today as darius. It was a toxic nightmare that should not be allowed Oh, so you finally met her in person there? how does it feel a solo lane Vayne scaling faster and harder?
It wasn't my first time either xD But yeah, it's pretty overwhelming and makes me want to ff after taking her free harass for more than a minute in lane. You know, since you can't even Q farm a minion without her taking a third of your hp with no way to stop her.
: > [{quoted}](name=kingDeDeDarius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MstMb4I0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-24T12:43:23.633+0000) > > I agree those other ideas (excluding hashinans idea), would be better, but I'm not going to complain about the q damage buff simply because it isn't that big (10 flat throughout game isn't much) and won't put him over the top. But yeah a little more armor or MS would be much more appreciated and I do miss his old e range...and the instant cast :P If were being honest the instant cast was op tho xd
Lol true, but a man can dream amirite? xD
Rioter Comments
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: How are you supposed to comeback against a fed riven?
There really isn't much except teamfights and hugging tower (if she's fed though, she can easily dive many opponents)
: I wouldn't say GUTTED. More like... "Brought in Line". Now, as for the why? There are already ten billion (or what it feels like ten billion) explanations as for why the two are out of line. I would hope we've all seen and heard them enough (From both Top-laners like myself and others) that I wouldn't need to reiterate them here for the ten-billion-and-oneth time. But, I know, we all have SELECTIVE memory, so I guess I'll say it again. For Riven, (Based on MY Experience, this is just MY feelings) it's the fact that she is able to stack the updated form of Conqueror extremely quickly, if the Riven play knows what they're doing with the champion. Her Q, if I'm not mistaken, gives 3 stacks by itself or more if they weave AAs in between each Q use. If I'm wrong on that feel free to correct me. In addition to that, the fact that she is healed for 10% of the pre-mitigation damage dealt allows her to circumvent her previous weakness of having no TRUE sustain (What I consider TRUE sustain is in-combat heals akin to what Juggernauts have) aside from her E shield, since her HP/5 is crap by itself. Then, add in the NIGHTMARE of a design that is Spear of Shojin {{item:3161}} . Because Riot refuses to give up on that "Awakened Dragon" effect, she can basically render the CDs for her abilities (Already made low enough with the 40 to 45% CD reduction every Riven builds in their kit and runes) to be essentially non-existent. Weave enough AA's between attacks and abilities and she can, theoretically, stun-lock you permanently if she uses her Q's knockup CC and W stun correctly. I say theoretically because I would think that even the most professional Riven player would not be able to do that consistently; they're human like the rest of us after all. I fully realize that Spear of Shojin is NOT an problematic item that is EXCLUSIVE to Riven, but it DOES add more problems to her on top of what she already had with the new Conqueror. **** **** **** Now, on to Vayne. IMPO (In my personal opinion) Vayne was doing her job well enough without the 50% reduced cool-down buff on her R she got back in the 9.1 patch. Then, the fact that {{item:3124}} allows her to bypass the 3-hit requirement for her Silver Bolts was basically like giving me a paper cut and pouring lemon juice on it! She was already able to melt Tanks and Juggernauts with the True Damage. So you should build Armor since you can't build Health against her, right? Nope! Guinsoo's also gives Total Armor-Pen! (Yes I know, it is based upon level, but it nonetheless exists) On top of the Last Whisper item ( {{item:3036}} or {{item:3033}} , take your pick) she is sure to have built. So, the two things that you are supposed to build to counter the things she offers, Physical Damage and True Damage, which are supposed to be counter-built via Armor and Health respectively, she renders BOTH of them moot! Her True Damage allows her to bypass high armor, and the Max HP% OF that True Damage allows her to bypass high health! A Riven, for the most part, you CAN Itemize against, as Conqueror, once fully stacked, only converts 10% of her damage to true damage, AND it converts the damage before damage modifiers. This makes both damage increases and damage reductions be 10% less effective. She will deal the same amount of true damage with or without damage modifiers. So, while she WILL have that 10%, the remaining amount of 90%, the lion's share of the damage, will still be Physical, allowing Armor to still serve a purpose against her. However, against Vayne, with all the things I listed above, that kind of logic doesn't work. Now you may say that what I say above only applies when using Conqueror, and that might be true. But Vayne doesn't need to take Conqueror. She already has true damage with her W. She's just fine with something like Press the Attack or some other keystone. But, both of the types of items/stats that you are supposed to build to counteract the things she brings to the table (Physical Damage and True Damage), she has something built into her kit that allows her to bypass them! That blasted Max HP% True Damage, that she is able to proc even faster with {{item:3124}} . THIS is why she is a problem.
Infernape (EUW)
: I wouldn't gut them or keep them as they are. I'd just straight up nerf their asses. With Vayne, I'd make her W an on attack effect so it loses its interactions with Guinsoo's. With Riven I'd either make her Q count as one stack for Conqueror full stop (as in the first Q will stack Conqueror but the rest don't), or I'd straight up reduce her damage slightly.
Also give vayne w a 10 or 15 Mana cost so she needs to be resource conscious
: Adrian is considered one of the best Riven mains yet he loses these matchups a lot. He and TF Blade - who usually plays Jax and Irelia into Riven - always play a 50-50 game (lately I saw TF to win more). Last time I watched Boxbox stream he played vs Darius and got stomped. Next game he stomped Darius. These are just random examples ofc, however, no high elo Riven main would call these matchups "really easy", especially Teemo and Vayne. >A good riven beats darius jax panth morde garen really easily. I'd rather say: A good Riven has a good chance to beat Jax, Darius.... It always depends on the players. If a good Riven facing a bad Jax ofc it will be a stomp. However, it is not because Riven vs Jax, it is because good player vs bad player. With equally skilled players these matchups are not one-sided at all. Riven is op now because of her synergy with Conq, DD an SoS, not because she got some superbuff a few patches ago. People just did not care to learn the matchup vs Riven when she was an underdog. She had the same abilities, same mechanics so everyone had the chance to learn her range, her cooldowns, etc. However, Darius mains for example did not care about that at all, they just enjoyed the fact they could brainlessly run it down and win. Now they cannot run it down so they started to cry for Riven nerfs. I have not met a complainer yet (no joke) who lost to Riven because "she is so op". Last time a Master tier Garen main started a thread here "nerf riven she so op blablabla"... he happened to play vs Adrian and lost the game. I watched the replay on Adrian's stream. Mr. Master Garen forgot to mention that he played like a boosted monkey, made more mistakes than I could count, yet was not solo killed a single time. It is always easier to blame the enemy champion than learn from our mistakes. My absolute favorit though when people rant about how super easy to play Riven, meanwhile A, they literally never played Riven B, played Riven and got humiliated badly. I have not seen a single one of them who actually played Riven in his elo and won his matchup like he should have with an op champion. I barely see anyone who actually played her then said she is easy. I do not know what is worse though. I mean how reliable a complainer statement is "Riven is braindead easy" when his 8 games with Riven were 4/16; 1/10, 0/6, etc. I support the freedom of speech but these people are just clueless clowns.
Great, no one gives af about your one sided anecdotal evidence when STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT winrates AND banrates AND play rates PROVE riven to be broken. Stop even trying to defend that stupid arrogant styled champ. It's pathetic
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=no8wZqh0,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2019-04-24T23:28:10.454+0000) > > I dont play her, so no shit im going to do bad on her. > And Urgot has counters that solo can use. Riven on the other hand really doesnt have any as it stands (only ones that a general cheese counters to any melee, which is hardly an argument) Okay, so let's ignore {{champion:126}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:518}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:43}} for now. {{champion:78}} and {{champion:58}} cannot lose lane vs Riven unless the player is superbad or ganked a lot. So "doesnt have any counter" does not stand at all. Not to mention any of these {{champion:114}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:122}} can go toe to toe with her and its not even the whole list. Many other champions have a good chance if played properly e.g. {{champion:86}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:80}} and so forth.
She beats almost all of those champs past a certain skill level, regardless of their actual skill. The agency to win or lose is almost entirely in her hands. It's on her to screw up. If they play perfectly and she plays perfectly, she will win 90% of the timw
Yets4240 (NA)
: Also, LMFAO at Urgot "OP for years." His rework was in the end of season 7, start of season 8. He's only existed for a year, and it wasn't until two two patches ago, 9.6 that he was changed into his current state, and then subsequently nerfed the following patch quite hard, as he lost around 50% of his playrate, 6% of his winrate, and has since fallen to a sub 49% winrate. Worth noting that before he became big in pro play due to every other top laner getting nerfed to oblivion, and him being picked to counter snowball heavy lanes by simply not dying to their early cheese, he was also at a 48% winrate, and was considered a hard to use, barely played (1-1.5% pickrate) and mediocre champion. Even when he saw competitive use, he still had pretty normal stats for a top laner, and wasn't even the best until patch 9.6 for all of ***one single patch,*** before getting nerfed ***again*** after he was previously gutted so that they could launch that mini-rework. Riven has been the #1 champion in top lane, or the #2 champion since at least patch 8.24, from what I can see, or just slightly longer than the entire season so far, with no nerfs or changes announced nor in sight.
The dude's been smoking the reefer. I ROFL'd real hard when I saw him write "urgot op for years"
: > Gutted, no questions asked. They had their time in the limelight avoiding nerfs. Now its their turn to feel like trash. This whole skill argument is the whole reason why Riven hasn't been nerfed. Gotta keep the mains happy somehow. It seems Riven is already trash in your hands. I mean, you managed to 0/4 with a theoretically superOP Riven... I wonder what result would it be with a gutted Riven. 0/40? I guess Urgot being OP for years does not bother you for some "strange" reason. LOL
Urgot OP for years? You are delusional. He was straight dog crap for many more years than he's been strong. Riven, on the other hand, had never truly been weak (only relatively worse in some metas and in less experienced hands) and vayne seems to be viable or broken at least 6-9 months most years
: Vayne w passive percent health true damage btw
Not the right kind of passive (though I hate her W and it needs an active with like 10 Mana cost or something). We're talking the passive slot
: Strongest: {{champion:63}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:157}} Weakest: {{champion:103}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:26}}
Why is no one mentioning darius's? Like, Kat's and vlad's don't even compare in the slightest
: I think with items Yas has the strongest passive. But if you look at just the passive alone, Darius easily has the strongest. A DOT plus insane AD gain
: {{champion:157}} Dude is handed 2000 gold worth of free stats and a shield for walking.
I think with items Yas has the strongest passive. But if you look at just the passive alone, Darius easily has the strongest. A DOT plus insane AD gain
: Riot about the Darius buffs
I agree those other ideas (excluding hashinans idea), would be better, but I'm not going to complain about the q damage buff simply because it isn't that big (10 flat throughout game isn't much) and won't put him over the top. But yeah a little more armor or MS would be much more appreciated and I do miss his old e range...and the instant cast :P
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kingDeDeDarius

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