Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 12
Have you looked into Ekko JG's performance? In my experience, he basically fell off a cliff for the new preseason. The old DH was FAR better on him because his mobility allowed him to intelligently navigate fights and pick up stacks that may be riskier for other champions. His early game was never good and ganks aren't his biggest strength either (hitting W is quite hard given the delay). The whole point in picking him is to offer a good mid-late with a solid jungler kit but he no longer snowballs as effectively and his late game feels underwhelming too (while the Sudden Impact nerf is noticeable, it's the DH preseason changes that made the biggest difference). He is still reasonable at counter-jungling but takes more damage clearing camps due to the Ravenous Hunter nerf. Despite his mobility, it can be risky since he can't actually duel any champion early. Unless he lands even his delayed W (which is super unlikely if they find you and see you trying to use it), he loses to quite literally every normal jungler... even Evelynn. This was OK when the old DH let him at least be relevant later but it's an issue now. Other changes don't favor him either. For example, he has less access to waveclear than before. One of the ways I snowballed a change was to help my laners get pressure by throwing a Q onto their wave if my location was known anyway or their laner was gone/dead. Turret diving mid-game was one of his strengths but this too is harder. First of all, champions now often take 6 MR and secondly, turrets do more damage. Possible Ideas (NOT all at once): - maybe give his E a bit more AP scaling with each R rank so as to give him a bit more scaling mid-late - maybe some more armor... it's less than Veigar's - maybe more damage to monsters from his passive (this is one way of accelerating his mid game a bit) Whatever the choice, I'm pretty confident that he does legitimately need help (especially for the higher tiers). He's at 48% with a 1% play rate and that is just not good considering that most of the people who play him are mains or picking him situationally. BTW: With the new DH, many junglers lack a scaling rune. I found the old DH far more interesting in every way as a jungler. The new one feels automatic and with minimal decision making as far as navigating fights or stacking. It lacks the depth of the old DH and by design, it'll always be better on laners if monsters offer no stacks.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 7
Singed feels unviable in Nexus Blitz.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 30
Jungle always seems more impactful than it is. Most of what junglers do reflects on the quality of the lanes. For example, a laner will get harassed down to 60% and a jungler comes to secure the kill. Their thinking isn't "I got grinded down in lane", it's "my jungler is useless and junglers are OP". It's actually hilarious how misguided a lot of these thoughts are. Other times, laners overpush with minimal vision coverage and yet they whine about the jungler coming. It's some really delusional thinking and by their logic, junglers should basically have zero impact on the game. Jungle is not an OP role but it does exploit poor and careless play. Moreover, it's simply a more complex role in terms of game knowledge, strategy, and being able to utilize psychological factors to your advantage. As far as ADCs are concerned, the squishiness was always an issue. Tanky ADCs can basically just take over the game too easily. I had this issue with Kai'Sa due to her massive R shield in certain builds (along with stealth). She's probably fine now but if ADCs get significant defensive advantages, they can quickly become a problem. In the jungle, assassins like Ekko already got a big power down from the DH changes imo (since he's supposed to be more of a scaling pick but doesn't scale anywhere near as well). It's a bit surprising to me that some others weren't hit as hard in performance. Shaco seems to perform really well just like in S8.
: well actually its not a "skill proving" platform, its a game to have fun and we want op things like this to have more fun and honestly, if you don't like it, you can gtfo here and go play fortnite to prove your skills, and also your mind set put the game in this position where a lot of players are quiting the game, cus the admins actaully listen people like you and turn op champs into garbage skill champs like katarina, and therefore the game is less fun cus fckers like you, why not understanding no need to get all serious lol main thing is fun, if your fun is getting ruined by skill, you shouldn't play pc games, you should get out there, and play real life chess tournuments where its all about skills.
> [{quoted}](name=Marcus Metellus,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eXylB69G,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2018-11-27T15:40:22.314+0000) > > well actually its not a "skill proving" platform, its a game to have fun and we want op things like this to have more fun and honestly, if you don't like it, you can gtfo here and go play fortnite to prove your skills, and also your mind set put the game in this position where a lot of players are quiting the game, cus the admins actaully listen people like you and turn op champs into garbage skill champs like katarina, and therefore the game is less fun cus fckers like you, why not understanding no need to get all serious lol main thing is fun, if your fun is getting ruined by skill, you shouldn't play pc games, you should get out there, and play real life chess tournuments where its all about skills. Ranked is absolutely about skill (or should be). That's why it even has an e-sports scene. This isn't a single player game where anything goes and it isn't purely to mess around like GTA. Developing mastery is part of the fun. That's the main reason I play this game and every time the game is in an unbalanced state, that desire is a bit lower. I want the game to be as fair and diverse as possible (ideally with almost no periods of it being imbalanced because that distorts the ranked system and also devalues the skill of those taking it seriously). I'm guessing you're trolling if you think that "Fortnite is to prove your skills" though. That's pretty much the definition of casual game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Shablagoo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eXylB69G,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-10-25T00:25:36.619+0000) > > Lol sure, all you had to do was choose some one with amazing clearing and then oneshot people with one auto. Graves? MF? Kha? All skillfull with this rune? Are you kidding me. This new change hasnt adding anymore skill expression. The only skill was it was weak early, but that doesnt matter when you play all those three who dominate early anyway. Well f**k you dude, no one wants an all skill based game, and the game were more fun to play when there were a lot more op champs in it, people like you dude, you know what? You should get a life and try to prove yourself to your family or your friends or something, people wanna have fun playing a fucking game, thats not a fucking life skills proving platform or something like that, just chill and have fun dude its like wtf
> [{quoted}](name=Marcus Metellus,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eXylB69G,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2018-11-27T15:25:18.408+0000) > > Well f**k you dude, no one wants an all skill based game, and the game were more fun to play when there were a lot more op champs in it, people like you dude, you know what? You should get a life and try to prove yourself to your family or your friends or something, people wanna have fun playing a fucking game, thats not a fucking life skills proving platform or something like that, just chill and have fun dude its like wtf Lol, why would you want a game which is inherently unfair and heavily skewed? Maybe it's fun for you to beat others simply by taking advantage of OP champions but for most people able to project besides their own little world, it's clear that this wouldn't be fun for those playing the rest of the roster. Personally, I wouldn't even get satisfaction from it because I would feel that it isn't my skill being rewarded. I want to win because I make better decisions and demonstrate higher skill, not because X champion wasn't banned. Moreover, no one will ever give a shit about your performance in an imbalanced and unfair game. You can be the best ever but if everyone thinks that game is rigged and poorly balanced, it will not be respected even by people playing that game. OP champions should be considered a mistake and not something to encourage. The goal should be true balance.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 28
Are you guys working on 4k support? I'm upgrading my system and was shocked that apparently 4k isn't really supported. As far as DH, the soul pickup style from the previous version should be reimplemented. Numbers can be different and there can be a lot of tweaks but that's what made the rune interesting and actually gave it a mastery curve. The old version was satisfying and had a ton of little tricks and optimizations to get the most out of it (as well as more precision). It also felt more rewarding for different styles, rather than being so heavily luck-based like the new version (hoping it's a clown fiesta and offering no fall-back pattern). Even though more champions can use the new DH, there is far less gameplay impact/decision making. Once the new season craziness is reduced, its feast/famine design will be more evident. And it's not like you can normally just all-in for a soul while behind (maybe on Xerath but certainly not for melee champions). The risk/reward isn't there, just like a Kindred shouldn't suicide for marks. Ultimately, this leads to uninteresting gameplay and very little actual modification to how people play the game based on this rune. Moreover, the new version gimps the core users from the previous version. On average, it will always be worse for junglers as long as camps contribute nothing. Overall, I see the new DH as just a less interesting, less skillful and less healthy design (really hate feeling safe at ~50% HP only to get one-shot too). It takes a fairly good rune with a niche and makes it bland and generic. The old design could have been heavily tweaked but totally removing the soul pickup stacking game from it just ruins it in my eyes (no matter if OP or UP, it's boring and doesn't meaningfully change how you play the game anymore). Top laners get some options. ADCs get their runes. Mid laners have several. What was so wrong with a jungle focused rune? It's not like junglers have that many scaling options anyway and it's already an insanely team dependent role (more than ever before after the scuttler changes).
: Bad idea this way you gif toxic players a change to know how close they are to a restriction. They will back off and once there safe they start again.
> [{quoted}](name=World peace plz,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=AeaFmUug,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-25T17:28:05.745+0000) > > Bad idea this way you gif toxic players a change to know how close they are to a restriction. They will back off and once there safe they start again. Even if that were to hypothetically be true for some, it's still much more fair than to be hit by a seemingly random restriction (which they now tie to rewards too). If they refuse to offer warnings, they should at least have much more detailed explanations for code of conduct. Right now it's laughable that we even have a "Summoner's Code". Unlike an actual contract, it protects no one and is basically just a way to justify almost anything being toxic with the right angle. An actual contract protects both parties. Most people don't want to ride at the edge of a restriction. They even have incentives to raise their likeability score. If they system truly operated as just a punishment for clear verbal abuse and bad attitude, it would be one thing. However, it has morphed into something else. Even cogently presenting your point of view on gameplay calls/strategy etc. can lead to restrictions if you often happen to disagree with your team and in a firm way. Example: "baron was 100% the right call. going for two mid turrets with their jungler and four others dead makes no sense.". People will report such statements because they don't like it when someone claims that they're just wrong with no wiggle room but it's definitely not harassment and nor is it a bad attitude. It's just someone firm in their decision making and willing to express that. The system will punish stuff like this and that's disturbing. While there are plenty of close calls in LoL, there are also clear cut ones and we shouldn't have to sugarcoat everything or resort to inauthentic pandering so as to protect everyone's ego. Moreover, the current system will punish people simply for responding to flamers and contradicting their statements using facts (despite keeping your cool). If someone constantly calls you "total garbage" and you mention their CS, KDA, getting solo killed multiple times etc. ... apparently that's "flaming" too. Yes, it may not be constructive but that's a far cry from being toxic. I think many of the people being punished are simply either pointing out the instigator's hypocrisy or explaining themselves. The intention is quite different. A true flamer is just looking to piss someone off and will try to degrade someone for any mistake so as to have a scapegoat ready in case of a loss. They'll go beyond gameplay and make it personal. It won't even be with any provocation from the said player. These players are cancerous to the game but someone saying to this type of player "maybe play better before berating others. you got solo killed 2x before getting ganked and have half your opponent's CS)" is treated like the same thing. The system's sensitivity and discriminatory capacity is pushed way beyond what it can reasonably do in a fair and just way. It's also fast encroaching on the ability to express ANY dissent at all (moving from a tool for protection to an instrument of control). Explained some more here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/RwovenrO-chat-restriction-system-anything-someone-doesnt-like-is-toxic
: Yeah, calling out people for doing bad is not that productive. "LMAO"
> [{quoted}](name=IanSilang,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Je452Y6c,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-11-26T22:57:04.459+0000) > > Yeah, calling out people for doing bad is not that productive. "LMAO" I could understand a chat restriction but a perma ban seems like too much unless you're like this almost every game. The fact that the wisest action is often to, "just mute everyone, keep your mouth shut and enjoy the game" shows how fundamentally broken the system is atm (at least if it's tied to rewards and account status). The intentions are noble but it now fosters a climate of fear and uneasiness even when simply discussing gameplay/strategy (post-game is looked at too). It tries to "cure" the problem of toxicity by creating an inauthentic and antisocial atmosphere (arguably worse). My thoughts on the system: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/RwovenrO-chat-restriction-system-anything-someone-doesnt-like-is-toxic
: The New Dark Harvest
I much preferred the old DH but I don't think the popularity of the new DH is too worrying just yet. It's preseason and people are trying it out. It doesn't automatically mean it's optimal for all the new champions using it.
: Do you really expect people to take your word without seeing the chat logs? Just remove your name off of them if you have to Unless you said something bad, there should be no reason to hide them, Right?
> [{quoted}](name=Projectile Vomit,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=RwovenrO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-11-23T04:53:47.931+0000) > > Do you really expect people to take your word without seeing the chat logs? > > Just remove your name off of them if you have to > > Unless you said something bad, there should be no reason to hide them, Right? As I already explained, I don't want this to be about me or specific logs. I'll play though a 10 game chat restriction. That's not what's at stake here. I have nothing to hide but it's just a distraction. I could have the most perfect logs the world has ever seen and I would not post them. That turns the thread into a witch hunt for toxicity instead of thinking about how to solve systems issues which affect far more than one player. I don't think the culture being fostered is conducive to rational thinking or open expression. If anything, it promotes antisocial behavior and disengagement from chat for all but the most necessary or positive comments. Not being flamed incessantly is a prerequisite for feeling comfortable but so is having a reasonable expectation of being able to express yourself even if others disagree with you. By open expression, I do NOT mean toxicity and harassment. I'm talking about disagreements on tactics, strategy and so on. Critical thinking is actively discouraged in favor of empty platitudes and inauthentic flowery behavior in all situations (basically never daring to disagree with someone and instantly backing away from any point which is controversial). Don't get me wrong, I type "gj" and "wp" plenty of times too but if that's all I typed, I'd be honor level 5 and I don't think that's how it should work. You shouldn't be punished for disagreeing on gameplay elements but you absolutely are both in terms of chat restrictions (although it usually takes over a hundred games) and in terms of rewards/honor status being lower (even if you're not punished). Let's at least call it what it is, "likeability" or "pleasantness" etc. It certainly has nothing to do with honor. In fact, I find it more honorable and useful that someone is willing to be direct and honest most times (again, not talking about flaming). People with honor 5 generally just bury any thought they think may not be well received, no matter if true or not. Very negative players clearly lower their winning chances but sometimes hiding so much of yourself may also reduce your chances of winning because you refuse to explain the path to victory for fear of being perceived as bossy or rude (especially when contradicting another). Either way, I don't think someone should be forced to be this self-conscious in a video game and I can understand why many players have given up on using the chat at all. It's mentally draining to worry about how statements will be interpreted when you just want to have fun. Back when I first started League in S3, people probably did flame a bit more (or at least in more flagrant ways and not as much of this passive aggressive spam pinging or similar behavior) but they were also more friendly overall. They were happy to banter and joke around. The mood was a lot better in games. People seemed much more at ease and the atmosphere overall was more social. We've lost a lot of that and I don't think the reduction in flaming is large enough to compensate for it. League's chat right now feels sort of numbing. If the player base's mood and sociability can be rated between 1-10, it seems like it would be a 5. S3 was probably a 7.5 but with much worse swings between the highs and lows. The current system keeps everything in the middle so you never really hit the 1s or 2s but you also don't hit the 9s or 10s. It's expected because people feel kind of fake when playing now... not because they want to be but because they have to be. I think the system needs a lot of refinement and holds too much power for how loose swinging it is in fringe cases. For example, if it'll punish merely strong gameplay analysis/disagreements and yet we're tying rewards to this automated system, there should probably be some kind of warning to that player before being hit with the punishment. Ideally though, there would be some adjudication option with a system more akin to the old Tribunal (impartial peers actually seeing the full logs). Ultimately, it's a consensus based learning system with some extra generic rules to prevent excessive false positives and also to instant-punish certain words or phrases regardless of context. There's more to it than that but it's pretty obvious that it's what it is at its core. Riot even explained a bit about how it learns from reports. Ultimately, even the most bland things could be punished if there was a high degree of consensus. For instance, if everyone reported someone for typing "have a nice day", that phrase would lead to a chat restriction. Of course, this isn't realistic because people aren't that unreasonable but that's how it works. It doesn't actually understand English, let alone context. It's not a reasoning system. Not even Alexa or Siri can manage that. I think it's fantastic for issuing chat restrictions and detecting likely problems but anything that could impact the account status beyond that (such as removing rewards or escalating to a suspension) should be done with human oversight (a sort of Tribunal option). The system is pretty good for the vast majority of cases so I don't think players would even contest most restrictions. You see people with super toxic logs post here all the time but this is still a tiny pocket of players relative to everyone who got some kind of punishment in the game.
: They already do that, which is why you start out with a 5 min LPQ and then get bumped up to 20 min LPQ if you still AFK/Leave frequently.
> [{quoted}](name=DrCyanide,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FAX5BuvM,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-22T00:25:08.965+0000) > > They already do that, which is why you start out with a 5 min LPQ and then get bumped up to 20 min LPQ if you still AFK/Leave frequently. That punishment has no bearing on account status. Most people don't even play enough to really care about waiting a few more minutes. They'll just go eat or make a cup of coffee.
Rioter Comments
: That’s not necessarily true. You can make a “comeback” at 15 minutes from being behind at 10 in the same way that you can make a comeback at 40 minutes after being behind at 25. There’s nothing that makes one comeback more special than the other, other than one comeback taking much more time than the other.
> [{quoted}](name=Tenshi912,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NXzOWJOQ,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-11-22T21:01:32.615+0000) > > That’s not necessarily true. You can make a “comeback” at 15 minutes from being behind at 10 in the same way that you can make a comeback at 40 minutes after being behind at 25. There’s nothing that makes one comeback more special than the other, other than one comeback taking much more time than the other. The longer the game, the more opportunities you tend to have to outplay and generate or exploit mistakes. Comebacks can happen at any point but let's say you have a minute to make your comeback or 10. Even if the game offers more comeback mechanics, players will be making more decisions in 10 minutes of play and thus will have more chances to play better and slowly get back into it.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 22
Add back a variant of the soul pickup mechanic from the old DH so it's not killed (or at least always worse) for its core users from last season. Otherwise, why even have the same name when it serves different audiences and is just a snowball rune with almost no gameplay decision-making altered. Even if you want DH stacks to be taken at sub 50%, offer some lesser alternatives for getting stacks. For example, if cannons, monsters and champion deaths gave stacks again, you could make it offer very little benefit for stacking but use it for more procs in fights and you'd actually have to alter positioning/think about what you're doing. The new version is gimmicky and will be fun for a few weeks but it's totally brainless. It's not about whether it's OP or UP. Numbers can't change this. It's just not interesting whatsoever as far as how it interacts with gameplay. I'm not about to int for stacks if we're behind and I'd be going for lower HP champions regardless in a fight. It doesn't feel like I'm planning out pathing (ganking more on cannon waves for example, invading a jungler as they're doing a camp so I get another proc, focusing on efficiency differently etc.) or decision making in fights (kiting around to get ally souls or extend for a far away enemy soul I didn't contribute to... not picking them up all at once so that I can get more than one proc. etc.). After the rework, I don't play the game and think "I intelligently adjusted my play here because I have DH." It's all the same decisions but with more payoff. It's like if you changed your car's paintjob. You still drive the same but maybe it's interesting that it's different for a few days. There's no depth to the new DH. There's no captivating gameplay. And, it competes much more directly with Electrocute than the old DH.
: Games feel like they end faster now
Yes and one thing Riot seems to forget is that the biggest aspect of comebacks is not having the average game time be so low.
: Revert Dark Harvest? Thoughts?
New DH has zero skill and isn't interesting in any way. The old DH had a tiny skill floor but a high skill cap and allowed you to carry much better late even on champions without obscene end games. Even if they keep this new one with the 50% threshold, I want the soul dropping to be a component like before. That actually rewarded planning out fights or smart positioning and it's always less tilting when allies die if you can at least use their sacrifice for something. The new one is less precise (applies on random damage), has less depth and is in much more direct competition with Electrocute. It's hardly even a late game rune anymore (especially with the ratio cut on APs so it's not abused by Xerath, Karthus, Veigar etc.). Junglers need a scaling rune too and this leaves them with nothing but a watered down version which will always be worse on them compared to laners.
: Am I the only one who doesn't understand the reason Pyke is getting lethality scaling?
idk what they should do but tank pyke is super annoying and imo a bit much
: > [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EIeUi5uG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-24T13:13:01.846+0000) > > Wait I thought the rune was for late game champions like yi why did they make it a assassin rune. I mean I think its interesting but they should of just made a new rune. Dark Harvest as it is oppressive once it gets to late game, and the extra damage it can offer in early game is just as rough to deal with. This new version isn't necessarily just for assassins, it works for anyone who's going to be focused on auto attacking. The caveat here is that it just helps you kill enemies faster once they drop below 50% HP.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EIeUi5uG,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-10-24T13:20:20.470+0000) > > Dark Harvest as it is oppressive once it gets to late game, and the extra damage it can offer in early game is just as rough to deal with. > This new version isn't necessarily just for assassins, it works for anyone who's going to be focused on auto attacking. The caveat here is that it just helps you kill enemies faster once they drop below 50% HP. a late game rune is good late game despite countless early game weaknesses (needs 150 stacks to even be reliable)... sounds very oppressive the new version requires no thought and is basically just for burst champions stacking AP/AD... doesn't seem like a "late game" key stone for your style as much as just for certain classes of champions
: > [{quoted}](name=SangreDeNoche,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0AkOiGyU,comment-id=0022,timestamp=2018-10-26T02:08:57.408+0000) > > And if there's anything we learned from T1's UNBAN it's that we can't take anything *Riot* says seriously. I disagree. Phreak did say a few times that if he knew Tyler1 reformed, he would consider unbanning him. You gotta think, permabanning one of the most popular LoL streamers is a very rash decision, so obviously there were doubts in Riot's minds. I think unbanning him was the right decision and it doesn't make Riot untrustworthy imo.
> [{quoted}](name=Get Ogre Here,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0AkOiGyU,comment-id=00220000,timestamp=2018-10-26T02:15:49.462+0000) > > I disagree. Phreak did say a few times that if he knew Tyler1 reformed, he would consider unbanning him. You gotta think, permabanning one of the most popular LoL streamers is a very rash decision, so obviously there were doubts in Riot's minds. I think unbanning him was the right decision and it doesn't make Riot untrustworthy imo. it's not a permaban and it was automated he could even contest it with a support ticket if he really thought it was undeserved not like this is his only account either
Terchio (NA)
: He was wrong by his assessment of Viktor, but that doesn't relate to his effort to win the game. Riot is quite clear with their banning system. You don't get banned simply because you are having a bad game. He picked a top-viable champion and had trouble in his matchup, mostly due to a couple of early misplays. I never saw evidence of intentionally griefing the team in any way, he simply played poorly. If he plays poorly consistently, that's what we have the MMR system for in the first place. He'll just end up a basement dweller. And in a game of matchups mixed with skill, you will find games that you play champions you aren't your best with and misread the matchup. This is not a best of X series where you aren't allowed to play after Y losses, or Z KDA.
> [{quoted}](name=Terchio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0AkOiGyU,comment-id=0002000200000000,timestamp=2018-10-25T20:07:22.121+0000) > > He was wrong by his assessment of Viktor, but that doesn't relate to his effort to win the game. > > Riot is quite clear with their banning system. You don't get banned simply because you are having a bad game. He picked a top-viable champion and had trouble in his matchup, mostly due to a couple of early misplays. I never saw evidence of intentionally griefing the team in any way, he simply played poorly. If he plays poorly consistently, that's what we have the MMR system for in the first place. He'll just end up a basement dweller. > > And in a game of matchups mixed with skill, you will find games that you play champions you aren't your best with and misread the matchup. This is not a best of X series where you aren't allowed to play after Y losses, or Z KDA. He is in mid Diamond games and the system treats him as such. It balances matchmaking and creates games with the assumption that this is correct. When he first times a champion in ranked, he is not a mid Diamond player, he is quite likely a low Gold player at best. This basically makes the game unwinnable and is clearly griefing even if he didn't go 0-19. He isn't playing by himself and his performance in the game can ruin it for everyone. It's OK to lose lane but at least a little bit gracefully. Dying nearly on CD 19x is trolling the game even if he's not walking into a turret to do it. It suggests ZERO adjustments to play/itemization/vision/decision making. That's not playing to win and no amount of excuses can change that.
: > [{quoted}](name=Step Sis Lux,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EIeUi5uG,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-10-24T13:04:41.991+0000) > > I dont know if i understand this correctly but why they are making another rune basiclly only for assasins? > > And ye its not my opinion, he said it is for them Because only assassins use the current version, and current version forces you to farm for 150 souls atleast so you can use it whenever you want. New version is potentially better.
> [{quoted}](name=ChristmasEvelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EIeUi5uG,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-10-24T13:20:41.332+0000) > > Because only assassins use the current version, and current version forces you to farm for 150 souls atleast so you can use it whenever you want. New version is potentially better. that's not true lee transitioning into tank would still take dh, as would a tanky ekko and several other champs. mf takes it as well, as can graves. it is about how you want to play the game not just your champion. dh right now doesn't pigeonhole you into a specific class or build. you need stacks more than you need a ton of AD or AP.
: Actually I'm pretty sure he's explained his reasoning for asking for nerfs on ranged top laners (eg. Kennen) and it is simply, they oppress the lane. Kennen, Ryze, Jayce, and Gnar are the most toxic top laners (when they are strong) probably. I guess Viktor right now. And just because he isn't good at Viktor doesn't mean he's wrong. But anyway he's definitely stated something along the lines of, "If this champion being gutted lets 5 other champions be viable then it should be gutted" and that really is what it boils down to.
> [{quoted}](name=Khristophoros,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0AkOiGyU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-24T20:16:05.398+0000) > > Actually I'm pretty sure he's explained his reasoning for asking for nerfs on ranged top laners (eg. Kennen) and it is simply, they oppress the lane. Kennen, Ryze, Jayce, and Gnar are the most toxic top laners (when they are strong) probably. I guess Viktor right now. And just because he isn't good at Viktor doesn't mean he's wrong. > > But anyway he's definitely stated something along the lines of, "If this champion being gutted lets 5 other champions be viable then it should be gutted" and that really is what it boils down to. sure they win lane but they get outscaled in teamfights and get murdered if you get onto them too
: I'm Sure Kha Won't Be Broken At All in 8.19
I may have overreacted to the Kha buffs! It remains to be seen but he's not too crazy yet based on the limited sample size so far. However, his play rate shot up a lot so that's always going to depress win rates. On paper, they still seem incredibly scary though and I think having such high damage already may incentivize tankier builds like Warrior-BC-Sterak's-Maw-GA since you're often overkilling targets. I don't really have a problem with Kha being buffed if it's just a small nudge towards viability at the highest levels (although he saw some play even before). I thought that he was being overbuffed specifically to make him a nearly guaranteed pick at Worlds. Ideally, I think every champion should be viable at every level but I don't want the balance team to force a certain meta. It should develop organically and not because something is suddenly broken tier etc. That's all.
: Patch 8.19 notes
I'm sure Kha won't be broken at all in 8.19... after all, there were already several Kha mains in high ELO even with no buffs. This doesn't feel like forcing a meta at all. It feels like deserved balance changes. It DEFINITELY isn't related to the upcoming Championship Kha'Zix skin either. Oh wait... most of the changes in the last few patches are NOT about correct objective balance. They are about forcing certain comps/picks/strategies to be dominant because Riot thinks they're more entertaining than actually having a properly balanced and diverse game. Is competitive integrity and FAIR balance really not on Riot's priority list anymore? There are so many champions struggling more than Kha even if they're not as "flashy" or popular. Those aren't even small buffs and he already had a good play rate in high ELO, as well as an above average win rate. It's hard to believe they really don't realize that they're just butchering balance with changes like this or for Pyke. Even the Lucian changes were pretty obviously over the top and he's now the best performing ADC in high ELO despite an enormous play rate. If Riot's going to switch to milking people with unwarranted buffs for skins or just because they want to showcase what they think are the "most fun" champions at a big tournament, they're going to lose respect/credibility/trust almost instantly and the game's player base along with it. Favoritism or skins should not play a role in balance. Riot should have a contract with the community where they abide by this. If League is to be a game with longevity, it needs to have an unbiased custodian (perhaps an independent organization). This shows a really irresponsible attitude on Riot's part. It makes a mockery out of people's time in ranked. Someone who's not even good at some of these champions will often see more success than another player with extreme skill on an unloved champion. There shouldn't be such large deltas between the effectiveness of champions and their power levels. Riot has to make a commitment to real balance if they want this game to be taken seriously as a competitive endeavor. When they make changes which clearly distort balance, it devalues the time everyone puts into the game to be good. _____________________________________________________________________________ EDIT: I may have overreacted to the Kha buffs! It remains to be seen but he's not too crazy yet based on the limited sample size so far. However, his play rate shot up a lot so that's always going to depress win rates. On paper, they still seem incredibly scary though and I think having such high damage already + more utility may incentivize tankier builds like Warrior-BC-Sterak's since you're often overkilling targets. I don't really have a problem with Kha being buffed if it's just a small nudge towards viability at the highest levels (although he saw some play even before). I thought that he was being overbuffed specifically to make him a nearly guaranteed pick at Worlds. Ideally, I think every champion should be viable at every level but I don't want the balance team to force a certain meta. It should develop organically and not because something is suddenly broken tier etc. That's all.
Rioter Comments
Eedat (NA)
: @Riot You're not going to have anyone to watch Worlds if you have no more players.
The problem you don't grasp is that balancing outside of pro play and Diamond+ (which btw Riot DOES do) simply butchers the game most times. The reason is that you're balancing around incorrect play and usage of champions so it becomes pretty pointless and actually makes balance objectively worse. Imagine if hypothetically, no one dodged Xerath's abilities and then you nerf Xerath in the gutter because of it. How logical would that be?
Rioter Comments
: Feels Like Jungling Is The Only Role That Matters
jungling is the most team dependent role other than perhaps support
: STRAWPOLL FOR SOLO QUEUE!!
lol... jungle is not in a great spot. lanes are super strong atm. the results are hilarious it's the most team dependent role by far and just "feels" like it's deciding lanes but in reality, jg usually plays off already winning lanes someone losing lane and sitting ther eat 70% and down 15 cs will get dived by the enemy jungle and think "oh wow, jungle is so strong!" when in fact, the jungler could only do that because they were already losing lane. mid and top are far more influential atm and it's not even close imo. top is probably the strongest of all the lanes and it represents the greatest distribution of challengers in every major region.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 29
About {{champion:245}} , maybe you could consider some of the suggestions in this thread: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/vGqrRT1f-ekko-has-among-the-worst-late-game-assassin-win-rates-ideas Although, since he's versatile and also heavily mained, his win rates are generally around 50% even when not that strong. It's also important to keep in mind that he snowballs well and so putting more power early could have more impact than expected. I love his kit but I think he could use a tweak here or there to make his late game more appealing (even if it requires a small nerf early). One of my favorite things about Ekko is also how flexible he is in itemization for both jungling and his other roles. He is one of the most interesting champions as a result and I don't think he should be forced into a pure AP build. He is a diver and vs some teams, he needs to itemize like one. Currently, he can do that to an extent and I hope it stays that way.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 18
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=PvrpURlA,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-07-18T15:34:27.089+0000) > > Hi folks, I watched an interesting video about the patch made by a Challenger support main. He has a lot of ideas about how the game should be changed. You can find it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwLd5Y6LcpE One thing that I thought was interesting was his solution to gold funneling. It's clever and something I had not considered. {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 18
I'm glad Corki got some attention but I don't think it's quite sufficient. The base AD nerfs really hurt him. Either way, it's a step in the right direction and I'm glad he wasn't overbuffed. Perhaps new build options (Stormrazor) or meta changes will make him a worthwhile pick. I saw that Vel'Koz got a massive buff and quite surprisingly, to his main poke tool. Valkrin actually thinks it may move him to OP territory once people start to prioritize Rabadon's more. Ziggs. He is doing alright as a bot laner (more safety, easier to hit targets, CC from support to help his reliability etc.) but is struggling hard as a mid laner. He has a sub 1.5% play rate in Diamond+ and STILL can't reach 50% win rate. Have you considered any more buffs to him? Perhaps Ziggs can get a little more on his Q or for a safer buff, more scaling on his W damage vs champions in order to reward riskier W usage (perhaps at the cost of turret damage). Since Ziggs can't compete with roaming champions directly, it would be nice if his W all in were stronger. Sivir. Good buff and she can counter some mages bot lane, such as Ziggs. However, she needs to be tankier given how low her range is. Jinx and Twitch are quite good now so I hope people stop complaining about how weak they are. :D Rammus. His clear speed is the biggest thing holding him back. Even 4% more AS would probably make him worth picking. He's still situationally viable Kindred. She is OP. Her win rate isn't obscene because her play rate went up a lot and inexperienced players are dragging her down. At the very least half her healing or something of that nature. I don't think she needed that buff whatsoever. Her late game is way too good so the fact that she performs well in a fast meta too just highlights how broken she is atm. She isn't vulnerable enough when played by competent players. I think she is literally the most broken jungler in the game right now if she isn't picked in a terrible comp. Skarner. What happened to him? I think he's a symptom of how most tanks are as a whole. I'd say that the 325->300 HP Cinderhulk nerf can be safely reverted now. It got a scaling nerf anyway. Mundo. Likely overnerfed for jungle and now balanced for top lane. He will probably still have competitive inertia but I don't think he deserves more nerfs without other game state changes (such as a Conqueror true damage conversion nerf... but I am not saying this is necessarily needed). MF. Tried playing her crit. instead of Lethality with limited success. It's nice that her R can crit. but the issue I run into is that instead of 40% CDR late game, you have 0%. At the very least her R should have some sort of CDR scaling with crit. imo. This is just a thought because I think lethality is the dominant build for a reason and not only because of the stronger early-mid game. WW. It's surprising to me that this champion can be objectively on the weak side and even unviable in competitive but still maintains a respectable SQ win rate. I don't think he deserved AD nerfs after the massive meta change towards level 2 junglers and the delay to level 3. The way he powered up was generally: fast level 3 -> kill -> fast Tiamat to farm properly. On the other hand, I can imagine that when he's actually viable at all levels, he may do very well in NA SQ. What are your thoughts on champions like this? Are you just intentionally going to keep them weak for higher level players/competitive? Ultimately, Masters+ and competitive are a better reflection of the objective balance state than what happens in Plat and below. The funneling nerf affects a lot of champions who aren't funneling. It affects power farm junglers with some successful ganks who want to push the lane after. It affects junglers skipping the jg item early such as Hecarim, Shaco, Rengar, Vi etc. There has to be a better way.
SanZo (EUNE)
: I'm quitting 4 Ever
balance isn't really that bad... especially at lower ELOs lol sorry to see you go but I think you are mis-evaluating a lot of things
Nebuul (NA)
: [CLIENT] Please save me from DUPLICATE WARD SKINS
Rexxiee (NA)
: Adcs being replaced by mages bot lane
they don't have to revert it they could just give turrets more HP and that itself would help I don't think ADCs are that bad though. It's just a few mages like Swain who are actually good bot.
: We wanted mage to be able to jungle...
She was the best performing JG in the game despite a high pick rate, a very recent addition as a jungler (not much time for people to learn) and also being pick/ban in competitive. In fact, in high ELO KR SQ, she was pick/ban as well. It's not like she got gutted or anything. Her early game is just a bit worse. She's still viable and certainly not the only viable mage. Ekko is kind of viable. Fiddlesticks too. Elise if you are good at her but on the weak side probably. AP Gragas JG is kind of viable too. Amumu is situationally fine and can build damage after Cinderhulk. Nidalee is alright. AP Nunu can be decent situationally. Eve is pretty good etc. ... Mage junglers are not dominant but they aren't unviable.
: People who have high rank yet are carried (and a way to mabye change/improve rank)
Unless they duoQ, it's just not possible to "get carried" while not contributing over a significant sample of games (100+). It's just perception, not reality. A few divisions of variance is normal but you won't find a Silver quality player in Plat because he got carried. What can happen though and frequently does is that someone climbed with a certain champion or in a certain meta and then they start trying random stuff and they no longer stick to what got them there. Then, of course, they can perform like a Silver despite being Plat. Put some guy on Ekko for the first time or Kindred or Zed etc. and they will not usually be good even if game knowledge is there. Being X rank is only true for what got you to that rank and not magically on every champion.
: Can Resolve reward going tanky rather than giving innate tankiness?
In a way, it already does. HP synergizes with resists. Blocking damage also is more effective with resists etc.
Rioter Comments
: I wish Janna had more skill expression
she has more than you realize people really underestimate it playing her to a basic level is trivial but beyond that, she has a lot more going for her and her mastery curve proves this
La Bello (NA)
: > I think her R should scale down in CD a little with cri or... get this because crit only takes 2-3 slots depending on if you want anywhere between 50-100% you have 2 other slots left over for CDR fixing. {{item:3071}} instead of LW or {{item:3158}} instead of Greaves if you really need it. There is also the Transcedence rune AND/or Prescence of Mind,UltimateHunter +Cosmic Insight (which is just as powerful as ult hunter due to how mulplicative vs total works) in other words CDR is not the thing keeping crit Fortune from being good. the Champion just by design is 20x better with lethality due to her passive Double up and R. There is never really a world where Crit is going to give you better DPS than LastWhisper Lethal+ a StormRazor {{item:3095}}. like even if you go conq and try to cheese out a 32% true damage R the numbers will STILL be inferior to just the raw shred power of LDR+Cleaver+lethal making your damage all but true anyways
> [{quoted}](name=Sunibee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UatFWIfh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-07T04:55:01.479+0000) > > or... > get this > > because crit only takes 2-3 slots depending on if you want anywhere between 50-100% you have 2 other slots left over for CDR fixing. > {{item:3071}} instead of LW or {{item:3158}} instead of Greaves if you really need it. > There is also the Transcedence rune AND/or Prescence of Mind,UltimateHunter +Cosmic Insight (which is just as powerful as ult hunter due to how mulplicative vs total works) > > > in other words CDR is not the thing keeping crit Fortune from being good. the Champion just by design is 20x better with lethality due to her passive Double up and R. There is never really a world where Crit is going to give you better DPS than LastWhisper Lethal+ a StormRazor {{item:3095}}. like even if you go conq and try to cheese out a 32% true damage R the numbers will STILL be inferior to just the raw shred power of LDR+Cleaver+lethal making your damage all but true anyways All of those options have big drawbacks and are awkward. Ionian on ADC is a downgrade compared to Berserker's, Swiftness, Mercs etc. It's a band-aid solution. Transcendence is atrocious in a solo lane because it take 15 minutes for you to have a functional rune. BC is maybe OK but doesn't synergize that well with crit. builds and takes a slot you might want for Stormrazor, BT, Lord Dom etc.
  Rioter Comments
: "the largest pure gameplay update we have ever done on a champion"
I hate how Aatrox abilities look. It's like he gets crayola and starts drawing on the ground and seems all kinds of wrong to me. It seems artificial.
Krrunchy (NA)
: Is Wukong Good?
yes, there was a guy in top 10 challenger one tricking him not long ago
Rioter Comments
Ifneth (NA)
: Q Cooldown Nerf Hurts Mid Taliyah more than Jungle Taliyah
probably true they'd be better off nerfing direct damage instead of CD if they want to hurt jg
Rioter Comments
Dikast1s (EUNE)
: Are you seriously complaining about duo queue players not being punished hard enough?You do realise that you have to be around 5 divisions over your skill level to win a lot of games when duoing right( at least at my mmr)? Duo players are matched with better teams and worse teammates why would that not be bad enough?
> [{quoted}](name=Dikast1s,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aBpAzFLM,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-07-02T17:30:43.998+0000) > > Are you seriously complaining about duo queue players not being punished hard enough?You do realise that you have to be around 5 divisions over your skill level to win a lot of games when duoing right( at least at my mmr)? Duo players are matched with better teams and worse teammates why would that not be bad enough? I don't think this is right and countless unranked -> diamond duos (who are mid diamond on their mains) but duo with 80% win rates pretty much prove that the MMR penalty is NOT sufficient if you're really trying as a duo. The ones doing funnel strategies even approach 90% win rate and it's pretty hard to play against unless you happen to have a proper draft against it (waveclear mid, strong early jg, decent bot and top etc.). Like I said, it's perfectly fine for casual duos.
: Can We Nerf Garen Already
I think he's just a very low skill floor champion so there aren't many people dragging down his win rate. He's more effective lower but surprisingly holds a 51% even in Diamond+. He may be just a tad too strong but only below Masters. In other words, he's not objectively too strong but he is good vs weaker players. What bothers me about Garen isn't the champion itself but just how awful many Garen mains make it to Plat+. They have no clue about the game or macro and are absolutely atrocious on anything that isn't Garen. They basically only got there knowing Garen and that's fine but to have someone not understand macro at all is really tilting mid-late game and I've seen it with Garens more than any other champion. They just make huge late game mistakes and overestimate their tankiness even though he's known to fall off. I've lost count of how many 4v5s were started by random Garens. Singed doesn't have a super hard kit either but they actually seem to comprehend macro pretty well. I may have just gotten unlucky with Garens. I'm sure there are some who are good too and actually understand the game.
: It's not Wukong. Pull your heads out your arses!
Wukong got compensated for Duskblade no? The Talisman changes really helped his JG too. Idk if he's OP but he's certainly annoying to face due to his stealth-R teamfight power. I don't think he's as much of a problem in Diamond+ but just like WW got nerfed because players refused to adjust to his fairly predictable gank paths and windows of power, he may get the same treatment. I believe in objective balance, not hand holding so if he's not actually OP, I don't want to see him nerfed. They should probably increase his skill cap though. It's way too easy to be effective on him when snowballing.
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koochario

Level 30 (NA)
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