Eedat (NA)
: You seem to think keeping server space up for TT is free. It is not. It's an old relic that continually eats money. So they weighed the cost and risk of revamping it to the possible gains and came to their conclusion. Tbh I think the only reason it made it this far is to keep the majority of bots out of other queues
> [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pxKloAuM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-03T01:38:36.415+0000) > > You seem to think keeping server space up for TT is free. It is not. It's an old relic that continually eats money. So they weighed the cost and risk of revamping it to the possible gains and came to their conclusion. Tbh I think the only reason it made it this far is to keep the majority of bots out of other queues You seem to think that they don't make money off TT players. I'd argue that TT players put more money into the game per hour played than your average SR player. Neither of us have numbers for this, but my logic is that people who are more passionate about a game are more willing to spend money on it, and to stick with a game mode that's been neglected for roughly 7 years requires a lot of passion. Thus anyone who is still playing 3's has likely spent more on LoL than your average SR player. Ofc, since tencent got a hold of the company they've been slowly squeezing every impulse purchase out of their playerbase, so maybe my model is now skewed.
: only bots are on tt nowadays, its just wasting away letting people freely make money off bot accts
> [{quoted}](name=ethereal dream,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pxKloAuM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-03T02:11:20.737+0000) > > only bots are on tt nowadays, its just wasting away letting people freely make money off bot accts More than a million people still play 3's on a regular basis. Besides, it's not like removing 3's will remove the bots, they will just invade arams and SR. Bots exist because people are willing to buy accounts, removing TT won't affect demand so it also won't affect supply (aka bot farms).
Hawt (NA)
: Not a lot of people play TT. The addition of TFT mode to LoL forced riot to retire TT. The more modes there are the more the player base is split, which will cause higher queues for each mode. Last year riot released stats for the different game modes. Apparently, Koreans don't play TT at all. I don't think it even had 1 percent. The NA and Brazil servers barely play TT. From the charts, it's less than 2.5 percent of the player base in NA play TT. The Brazil server is like 1 percent. Compare that to Aram, which has around 15 percent in both NA and Korea. I imagine that in China the play rate is similar to the Korean servers, near zero percent. Here is the chart: https://media.comicbook.com/2018/10/league-of-legends-game-modes-1138435.jpeg There are so many things wrong with TT, including bugs, imbalances, and more bugs. The fate of TT reminds me of Dominion. Both Dominion and TT got progressively worst with time due to the lack of game play balance for those modes and bugs. Every game mode has to have some balance done overtime and bug fixes like what Riot did with Aram.
> [{quoted}](name=Hawt,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gThAEfkZ,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-07-31T17:30:55.594+0000) > > Not a lot of people play TT. The addition of TFT mode to LoL forced riot to retire TT. The more modes there are the more the player base is split, which will cause higher queues for each mode. > > > Last year riot released stats for the different game modes. Apparently, Koreans don't play TT at all. I don't think it even had 1 percent. The NA and Brazil servers barely play TT. From the charts, it's less than 2.5 percent of the player base in NA play TT. The Brazil server is like 1 percent. Compare that to Aram, which has around 15 percent in both NA and Korea. I imagine that in China the play rate is similar to the Korean servers, near zero percent. > > Here is the chart: > > https://media.comicbook.com/2018/10/league-of-legends-game-modes-1138435.jpeg > > There are so many things wrong with TT, including bugs, imbalances, and more bugs. The fate of TT reminds me of Dominion. Both Dominion and TT got progressively worst with time due to the lack of game play balance for those modes and bugs. Every game mode has to have some balance done overtime and bug fixes like what Riot did with Aram. First off, that chart is super misleading. The only two of the top TT regions are listed in the data. (EUW, EUNE, NA, LAN, BR) Also, 2.5% of a multi-million user playerbase is still an enviable number for any game company. Let's abandon SR for 8 years and see if people are still playing it. In 9 years TT had one map update (2012) and one item update (2014) and 0 champion balance updates. Korea doesn't play because they're a very competitive region and Riot doesn't support competitive TT. If Riot did a little balance and hosted regional championships then Korea would be all over that.
: So are we to just assume that Qiyana also gets River from the health pack in Twisted Treeline, or did y'all completely forget to give that map any consideration for balancing as usual?
Their average response time for critical issues on TT is 6-9 months. Expect it to work after preseason. I mean, it's not like it has a ranked queue or anything.
: where? oh you mean the next mode to be removed since dominion is gone? better get those 100 wins on it while you can so you can get your legacy twisted treeline icon :')
but do I get something for 10,000 games? how about 20k?
: Riot's plans for TT are to ignore the community until it dissolves, then delete it entirely. Then reassign the resources to TFT.
I feel like it reached it's minimum population years ago. Anyone playing it now either has never played it before and will likely never play it again, or they are a TT main like myself and aren't going anywhere.
: Patch 9.14 notes
Still no Twisted Treeline section in the patch notes. {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}} I know you don't touch the treeline in 99% of patches, but you could at least let us know you're aware of the issues we report and keep us up to date on your plans for the map.
: Patch 9.13 notes
Mech hi (NA)
: me and two friends played tt and legit got put againts bots the whole time
Yea, you have to play ranked to avoid the bots. Normals are really low quality games because the bots scare all the decent/serious players away and make all the new players quit thinking it's a trash mode.
: Patch 9.12 notes
Last patch I expounded in rythm and rhyme the virtues of buffing a map lost in time. Now Riot has promised to give us an honest account of their plans for this mode most sublime. So I wait patiently here on the edge of my seat I love Twisted Treeline so please don't delete. Instead return our favorite hits rotating gamemodes, and permanent Blitz. Please Riot do tell if we're in for a treat.
Tantarboy (EUNE)
: I'm a bit afraid of what will be said about TT honestly, i really don't want to see it gone
> [{quoted}](name=Tantarboy,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X5txM1wn,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-07T16:21:00.776+0000) > > I'm a bit afraid of what will be said about TT honestly, i really don't want to see it gone I'm with you on this. That being said, I doubt they'll do any major changes until the end of the ranked season. If anything it'll be "we plan to rework (or remove) it for next season", or they'll barely mention it as they address all the other game modes like usual.
: Patch 9.11 notes
Dear Riot I don't mean to whine But you keep pretending it's fine To ignore a game mode Just because it is old Please update the Twisted Treeline
: no love for twisted treeline anymore. so sad. no harrowing events either
Harrowing was my favorite, I wasted all my LP buying all the special runes. When they redid the rune system I was hoping I'd get like a summoner icon of each quint set but no luck there either.
: Patch 9.10 notes
Dear Riot, {{sticker:sg-janna}} Sincerely, Twisted Treeline
Stexe (NA)
: What do you do / whom do you contact when Riot Support messes up MULTIPLE times and can't fix / escalate it to someone who can fix it? --- tl;dr: Why does Riot not have methods to escalate issues from Player Support to people who can actually fix things? (Note: Sorry this is a long post, just want to show evidence backing up everything I'm saying as these issues have been going on for 5+ years now and are only getting worse) --- The problems with Player Support (PS) not being able to do anything or find someone who can help are a constantly reoccurring theme I see pop up all over the place. The story seems to go something like this: player tries to get help by contacting PS, next PS says they can't do anything, then player tries to get PS to escalate issue to someone who can do something, and finally PS says they can't escalate it or pass it on to anyone who can help. PS does nothing, player gets no help, everyone is left frustrated and sad. See: "Agents told you eons ago wouldn't truly be wrong at the moment," where 'eons ago' is apparently less than 1 year ago (https://i.imgur.com/zEAwfCt.png / https://i.imgur.com/PALcRcq.png). Seriously, I see this continually. Like the recent Morgana chroma debacle where a PS person said, "get used to it / hope u like it," when Morgana's chromas were mixed up (https://i.imgur.com/senpEvY.jpg). Or when you try to get clarification over something confusing, like what content is Limited Edition or Legacy or whatever (https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/8mphk9/why_is_jaximus_a_limited_availability_skin_when/), and get berated by PS saying, "dude cmon i didnt sign up for this," over minor things (https://i.imgur.com/7Jc8UGk.png). Likewise, even when PS says they will refer the problem to someone, it is often unlikely you'll ever see it fixed. For example, I've been waiting on the Limited Edition (LE) borders for "Happy Elf Teemo" and "Union Jack Fiddlesticks" being added for over 2 years now (https://i.imgur.com/xYEG8LP.png / https://i.imgur.com/nU1FRgF.png). Then we have major debacles with PS/Rioters saying one thing and something completely different happening. Here are 3 different PS people telling me that a lot of the 2018 Lunar Revel content wouldn't be coming back (Wukong emote, Ruby chromas, Gold chromas / https://i.imgur.com/xpZDUiY.png), something I followed up with non-PS Rioters to clarify as well. Then when the content comes back after I spent over $100 on RP just for that content based on what I was told, I get a "sadly there's really nothing I can do here" (https://i.imgur.com/npgCdwp.png) You know what happened the last time Riot said content would "never come back" and then it did? Players got an RP refund, an icon, and a special loading screen border (https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/store/sales/plan-vintage-limited-edition-skins) or at the very least got a special version of the skin (Championship Riven: https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-pbe-feedback/M3soEg9r-an-update-on-championship-riven / PAX Sivir: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/champions-skins/skin-release/neo-pax-sivir-and-epic-capsules) It wasn't like this in the beta. PS worked hand-in-hand with the rest of Riot. I know that can't happen due to the scale of LoL, but you'd think they would at least have a way to escalate key issues. Instead, you have to go to some social media platform, hope your story resonates with people, and get enough traction that some Rioter with influence takes notice and does something about it. Even then it is unlikely. Another example, it's been 5 years since Hippalus and Tryndamere promised to get back to original Limited Edition skin owners better compensation ("Hip himself is working on additional (longer term) projects that should also help our most dedicated players feel appropriately recognized" https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1u4317/tryndamere_w_context_on_riot/ceeqzj4/). I really want to support Riot Games! I've been following them since early, early closed beta. But the company has really changed from being "Player Experience First" to "do whatever we can get away with" it seems. From major fiascos within the company to sleazy marketing schemes (https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/af8642/the_psychological_manipulation_of_prestige_aatrox/), they've really changed over the years into something I barely recognize... and it hurts when a company I loved keeps doing these things and continuing like they aren't even trying to get better. Whew. Okay, so really, who do we contact / what do we do? Why is there no team dedicated to handling escalation and things outside of the norm? We have Rioters whose sole job is about managing talking to Influencers / Affiliates / Partners (https://partners.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/), you'd think they could get someone to deal with the above issues?
Read it all, didn't follow links. I've had different issues but the same problems. +1
: Patch 9.8 Notes
+1 patch with no love for Twisted Treeline. Bug fixes please!
: Monthly Reminder That Twisted Treeline is a Stain on League of Legends
I'd say Riot's treatment of Twisted Treeline is the stain, not the map itself. Though the current version is vastly oversimplified compared to the old one, the small 3v3 map concept is solid. As someone whose played both the old and new version of the map I have to admit that the new one is much more balanced. However, it is also way oversimplified. I can stand on the altar and kill all 3 jungle camps while protecting against deep ganks. The thing the new map needs most is an expanded and more interesting jungle. That being said, I'd settle for simple bug fixes and the occasional mention in the patch notes about how certain changes affect the map. Just a disclaimer, I play TT almost exclusively so I may be biased. I much prefer it to SR even in its current state and I treat SR like most people treat TT, just playing enough games to get gold for season rewards.
Levadubz (NA)
: Looking for Silver Flex group (3v3 or 5v5)
If you want to find teammates for Twisted Treeline you should post on the TT subredit or on doubledorans.com since those communities are much more active than the forums. https://www.doubledorans.com/Teambuilder https://www.reddit.com/r/LoLTwistedTreeline/ Hope it helps and good luck!
: Fix Twisted Treeline
TT definitely needs some attention. Riot doesn't even address bugs in a timely manner. They don't need to completely rework it, just fix bugs and make some tweeks like the vile fear effect you mentioned. I disagree that it's a dead mode, plenty of people play it and it has a healthy community that would thrive if Riot showed it any light. Also, I feel that 'funneling' is a crucial part of the TT ecosystem and that it actually helps to balance the map by making room for archetypes like adc's and supports among the standard bruisers and mages. Removing 'funneling' would nuke champion diversity into the stone age and likely kill the map.
: Patch 9.6 Notes
No bug fixes for Twisted Treeline .... again. One day they will hear my cries, one day they will see me shouting into the void, one day they will acknowledge my pleas. {{sticker:sg-janna}}
Minarde (NA)
: >i haven't seen a change or balance note on any of the patch notes for at least a couple months now if not more I think it's been at least a year? I honestly can't remember off-hand what the last change was. Actually, yeah. I just skimmed through patch notes, and aside from changes to Support items to match their SR counterparts (v8.6 in March 2018), the last Treeline balance change I found was nerfing super minions in v7.10 in May 2017. So "a couple years" seems like it'd be more accurate than "a couple months."
it had 3 mentions in the past year. It used to have an entire section at the bottom of the patch notes about how the changes affected the map specifically. Now, after every patch, the community has to manually test everything to see which changes made it through and which ones didn't.
: Well she´s certainly very strong atm, but so are a lot of things. I´d still rather see changes to Taric first, he´s meta-defining strong still as the main funnel-enabler. Also Illaoi is not necessarily that strong but just pushes out so many options that you almost have to ban her as default aswell...and don´t even get me started on sylas. The best first step honestly would be to give TTT 10bans already.
I'd say 12 bans, 2 per person but do it blind to speed up the process like in 5's.
: > [{quoted}](name=DrippyBrownHole,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QLKiVn0g,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-03-11T18:14:00.193+0000) > > They can't even balance characters on Rift. You expect them to balance characters on Rift and Treeline at the same time? They just did a whole bunch of damage buffs and nerfs to champions in ARURF last patch so yea, I do. If they can balance ARURF which is a for fun mode then they can balance Twisted Treeline which is a ranked mode....
Agreed, I'm tired of seeing all these changes to temporary or rotating game modes and they can't even be bothered to fix bugs on a mode with a ranked queue. I've submitted plenty of bug reports over the past year and the only one they fixed was that Malzahar altar capture one, which they did a month and a half after it happened.
: When I was just starting off to play League, I only played TT. There was no gold funneling, no overbearing r%%%%%ed itemization, just plain old 3v3, where whoever gets Jax/Trynd wins! :P Boi season 1 was fun :D
Ah yes, The days when tabi's and phantom dancer gave dodge chance, evelynn had 90 seconds of true stealth and stacked sunfires, and whoever got the red buff at level 1 won the game..... Those were the days! But seriously, I do kind of miss all the shenanigans.
: If you think Rek'Sai is absurd on Summoners Rift, she completely ruins Twisted Treeline
Until her latest buffs in 9.4 or was it 9.5 she was actually really weak. She had terrible scaling and a very small window to snowball with her mobility advantage allowing most competent players to just wait her out like any other snowball champ. The new conqueror and changes to her ult have greatly increased her scaling giving her a much larger window to snowball. According to most of the 3v3 community she still isn't even S tier. [doubledorans.com/Tierlist](https://www.doubledorans.com/Tierlist) [The Shadow Isles Tierlist](https://tsi.lol/index.html) [3v3.gg Tierlist](http://3v3.gg/tier-list) or ask on the [3v3 reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoLTwistedTreeline/) If they're gonna fix something, they should fix that graphical bug with the Vilemaw buff or maybe the fact that minions stack directly on top of one another for the first few waves making them impossible to target for last hitting. Or the fact that Skarner's pillars are not symmetrical from red side to blue side.
: Matchmaking Twisted Treeling Ranked 3v3
Restart your queue if it goes over double the estimated time, it'll greatly increase the balance of your games and won't add too much extra wait time. Seriously, this will vastly improve your experience.
: Twisted Treeline 3v3s Support Items and Masterys
I am a Twisted Treeline main and I strongly disagree. In fact, I believe it is essential to the balance of the mode because it allows champion archetypes such as ADC's and Supports to be viable. Without hyper meta there would be only bruisers and mages which would be way worse. Many people enjoy the hyper meta because they are ADC/Support players and don't enjoy bruisers or mages. These complaints typically come from people who are new to the map or low ranked and don't yet understand how to play against it. Hyper meta is a scaling strat so if you don't understand how to capitalize on your early game it will run you over, just like a scaling comp on SR. It's a viable alternate strat that adds diversity to the mode. Asking to remove it is like asking to remove Teleport from SR because split push comps aren't fun to play against. The problem with the mastery system is that it doesn't actually reflect mastery on a champion. An Iron IV scrub can easily get mastery 7 because they're playing against other Iron players. Trying to protect the exclusivity of master 6-7 is a meaningless crusade and I wouldn't be surprised if the whole system gets scraped for something better in the near future. It just feels really bad as a TT main when I have to grind a mode I don't like in order to show I've 'mastered' a champion.
: why werent the changes put into twisted treeline?
The bigger question is: Why was the old bounty system removed if the new one wasn't being added? TT now has no bounty system!
: Twisted Treeline BOTs/AI - How to find them
I agree that normal 3v3's is a nightmare. I only play ranked now and haven't seen a bot in over a year. I feel bad for people who love the map but don't want to play ranked. The presence of bots in TT is not a valid reason for its removal as it won't solve the bot problem at all. They'll just move to aram or SR, and for this reason riot probably likes them in 3's so they don't pollute their other game modes.
: Patch 8.23 notes
Shutdowns on Twisted Treeline are broken now. Riot you screwed something up. twitch.tv/Kuferl just had a game where his team was 5k gold behind and he shut down a 6/0 enemy and got 300 gold. That is just one example, the numbers are consistently lower than they should be even accounting for the gold lead scaling.
: 3v3 has needed direct balancing for years, same as Dominion did. It's hard to keep playing when the viable champion pool for the entire game mode is less than 20. But of course Riot will make some bullshit excuse (like for Dominion) why they can't have a couple people sort out issues with the game mode.
> [{quoted}](name=Éve,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NTuUlIlZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-14T22:51:28.744+0000) > > 3v3 has needed direct balancing for years, same as Dominion did. It's hard to keep playing when the viable champion pool for the entire game mode is less than 20. > > But of course Riot will make some bullshit excuse (like for Dominion) why they can't have a couple people sort out issues with the game mode. I'd wager 3's has more viable champs than 5's at any given point. It has two stable metas and that leads to a large variety of team comps. Yes there are a few champions that you see more than most but the same is true for 5's. 9/10 of my 5v5 games have a Yasuo or Zed midlane or an Urgot or Sion top. That doesn't mean the mode is unballanced. For reference, here's an incomplete list of 64 viable champs in 3v3's: Darius, Illaoi, Garen, Urgot, Renekton, Irelia, Aatrox, Kayn, Poppy, Olaf, Graves, Maokai, Skarner, Jax, Trundle, Brand, Oriana, Veigar, Malzahar, Fiora, Yasuo, Gnar, Tahm Kench, Shyvana, Anivia, Zilean, Cassiopeia, Sion, Mordekaiser, Cho'Gath, Lucian, Volibear, Nocturne, Rek'Sai, Amumu, Xin Zhao, Zac, Vel'Koz, Morgana, Syndra, Karma, Fiddlesticks, Wu Kong, Kha'Zix, Jarvan IV, Gragas, Vi, Master Yi, Ahri, Swain, Ziggs, Xerath, Galio, Kai'Sa, Xayah, Taric, Leona, Braum, Alistar, Lissandra, Jhin, Nautilus, Pyke, Lulu
Kalikko (NA)
: Personally, I'd like them to untie ranked rewards from twisted treeline, so all you casuals get out my ranked games.
> [{quoted}](name=Kalikko,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=1hARFAcj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-11-05T03:30:30.064+0000) > > Personally, I'd like them to untie ranked rewards from twisted treeline, so all you casuals get out my ranked games. I agree. While I'm glad it brings people to try 3v3's at least once a year, and some of them stay, it also makes the last month of every year unplayable for us 3v3 mains. For the last month, the map is full of players who have no idea what they're doing or who just don't take it seriously. Unfortunately, this is when most people experience the map so their views about it get skewed by the sub-standard environment. I also agree that having to play 3v3's for season rewards on server that doesn't offer it 24/7 is a bit sketchy, but simply removing the mode is not a viable solution. I also don't think we should get no reward for ranking up in 3v3's, it just needs to be a reward that doesn't force people to play a map they're not interested in. (I don't like 5's but I have to rank up in not 1 but 2 queue's I don't enjoy to get my rewards) My suggestion would be to give map specific rewards, like a special skin that is only selectable on the map that you earned it. That way 5's players wouldn't have to play 3's because it only offers a 3's specific reward and vice versa.
: Relative Team Colours on Twisted Treeline
They work for me. But I play on colorblind settings, so maybe that helps?
: Twisted Treeline MMR is a complete joke
I've played nearly 700 ranked 3's games this season and just got my diamond for the first time ever. There are fewer people playing the mode so the algorithm has to create teams with a wider spread. However I've also been working on stat crunching project for 3's and was surprised to see that the difference between the average rank of each team is consistently small. These games with a big variance between players on a single team are still balanced between teams but are much more volatile on an already volatile map. This means that if you get ahead you'll crush your opponent and if they get ahead you'll be crushed. It comes down to self-serving bias, you'll notice the difference and blame the system when you're being crushed but will attribute the corresponding wins to your skill. It's just basic psychology and everyone does it. The only solution to this is for more people to play so the algorithm can generate teams with smaller variances. As for Madsin25's comment, I strongly disagree. I'd attribute 90% of the frustration new 3v3 players have is a result of a lack in game knowledge. Champion mechanics translate easily from 5's to 3's but knowledge of the map has to be learned and that can be painful and slow. > 3s is less about game knowledge(like SR is) and more about playing towards the meta and being damn good with those champions mechanically.
H Senpai (NA)
: [Client] Game keeps resetting back to windowed mode
I'm having the same issue but with all game modes. After I log in my game is reset to windowed mode. Once I change it to borderless it stays that way until I relog.
Rioter Comments
: @Riot: Regarding Runes Reforged and 3v3
: Some Runes don't work (so well) in Twisted Treeline so I made some replacement suggestions.
I like your suggestions, I too was hoping they would make some adjustments for Twisted Treeline. Also, the state of vision in 3v3's is so awkward. Everyone having a free sweeper kills champs that rely on stealth like Akali and Shaco making them nonviable on a map where they used to do well. I like the sweeper idea but there needs to be more of a cost than it's short cd. Mostly you use it to check the two center bushes before facechecking them. IMHO holding an alter should grant more vision of the jungle around it (not the camps), specifically that bush. The vision could replace the current MS bonus and would make it a more important team goal early on. Controlling the alter would then provide a little warning for the top laner about incoming ganks. With this one change sweeper cd's could easily be doubled, allowing stealth based champs some needed love. anyways, just my 2 cents
: By "Level to infinity" you actually mean "Level to 2^32/2 which is the maximum positive integer that a 32 bit program can handle", right?
It depends on the data type they used, it could be higher or lower, they could even define their own data type that would only be limited by the processor architecture and/or the size of your computer's storage.
: Patch 7.22 notes
> Waterwalking gives you movement speed while walking in the River, which wasn’t useful in the desert. Waterwalking will become Scorch, which allows your next ability to set the champion on fire, dealing damage. what about in 3v3's?
Bancheis (NA)
: Bring back the Groovy for Groovy Zilean please
> I believe this new skin makes him look too weird and manic instead of groovy. This ^
: ###### I typed the following to clear up any mistakes that I think you believe in. Sorry if I misread or something. Just making sure you know, there already is a visual indicator which indicates the enemy champion has fallen below 25% health. Here's the [Spotlight](https://youtu.be/AEd1aq77tBo?t=148) which shows the indicator that appears for me and in this video. In case you thought otherwise, shields does not affect anything. A champion with a maximum of 100 HP falls to 23 HP (at this point, they have 23% HP left, which falls under the threshold). If that champion uses a shield that equates to 90 HP, Urgot's ultimate would still executes that target. On the health bar display, the border does not change no matters how many health a champion has. Since I read that you are having problems with that, I assume you are observing the actual "health bar", the one that shows a line at every 100 health a champion has; you're having to estimate where the 25% while letting their own bonus health affecting your estimation dynamically. Instead, you should probably pin an "imaginary point" on the border that marks where the 25% health would be. It may helps to imagine it in fraction. 1/4 = 25%. I think Riot already have their stance on lines on HP bars that represent the executes point, not sure though.
> [{quoted}](name=TryMucinex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kbb2bbmt,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-10-28T14:14:58.413+0000) > > ###### I typed the following to clear up any mistakes that I think you believe in. Sorry if I misread or something. > Just making sure you know, there already is a visual indicator which indicates the enemy champion has fallen below 25% health. Here's the [Spotlight](https://youtu.be/AEd1aq77tBo?t=148) which shows the indicator that appears for me and in this video. > > In case you thought otherwise, shields does not affect anything. A champion with a maximum of 100 HP falls to 23 HP (at this point, they have 23% HP left, which falls under the threshold). If that champion uses a shield that equates to 90 HP, Urgot's ultimate would still executes that target. > > On the health bar display, the border does not change no matters how many health a champion has. Since I read that you are having problems with that, I assume you are observing the actual "health bar", the one that shows a line at every 100 health a champion has; you're having to estimate where the 25% while letting their own bonus health affecting your estimation dynamically. > Instead, you should probably pin an "imaginary point" on the border that marks where the 25% health would be. It may helps to imagine it in fraction. 1/4 = 25%. > I think Riot already have their stance on lines on HP bars that represent the executes point, not sure though. Maybe I'm blind but I've never noticed this indicator in hundreds of games with him. I'm gonna test it in a custom game now. I run the game on minimum graphics with colorblind mode enabled and always use the battlecast skin, not sure if any of that makes a difference. Edit: Just tested it with and without the battlecast skin. It's obviously there for both but it blends in with the battlecast skin very well thus making it much less noticeable. (battlecast has a bunch of orange and red effects, when you're in w range they overlap the marker)
Rioter Comments
: Xin Zhao: Rework Adjustment Proposal
I actually like all your proposed changes and agree that his Q feels much more clunky than before. I particularly like the idea of having his W count towards Q hits. Even if it doesn't apply the bonus damage it would add some really cool depth to his kit. You would have to choose between using w to rush the knockup or getting the extra damage from the auto hits. It would also alleviate the issues you mentioned with him having to use his dash as an engage because he could get a ranged knockup (followed by the slow) so he could catch backup after standing still. On a side note, I've found that if I use his new W between Q hits, I sometimes get stuck in the Q animation and can't auto attack for 2-3 seconds, meaning I can't knock anything up or deal damage. Perhaps this is a bug? Someone from riot should look into it as it happens many times each game for me.
: Patch 7.20 notes
RIP Sterak's + Urgot (The poor dude is basically melee)
ChDior (NA)
: New Evelynn is absolute awful. Riot ruins all eve main players
I also have a long standing love of Evelynn, and have played hundreds of games with her. I remember stacking sunfires and killing squishies with her stealth (that actually worked long ago XD). So far I've found the update to be clunky to play and confused in design. I know I'll get better with her kit but it just doesn't have that smooth feel that the galio or urgot rework had. Just in case anyone cares, here's my thoughts on each of her spells. tldr; - lacks the mobility to be a proper assassin - spell interactions are clunky and non-intuitive - new ult is nice but could be tweaked a bit - waiting for balance changes before I try her again - Q Underwhelming - I see why they may have made these changes, they want to introduce more skill to old champs and auto-targeting spell aren't good for that, but they want to keep it similar because it's kind of iconic to her kit and it would be a pain to have to constantly target a spell on such a short cooldown. They solved this by adding recasts that auto target, understandable, I actually think it's a fine solution. My problem is that the initial cast is completely different than the rest in that it is a line projectile that can be blocked. This means that quite often you only get half a spell worth of effect (e.g. you enemy is running through a minion wave, you can either wait until you're on the other side to get the bonus on the recast and waste time not damaging them, or use it on the wave so you can hit your fleeing enemy with basically no damage and hope your cd comes back before they escape). Solutions - Make the initial behave similar to the rest, traveling through all enemies in a line. Shift the bonus damage buff to be applied by each recast as a stacking debuff on your target. The longer you are in combat the more dangerous you get, leading to that epic ult finale. This would obviously have to be capped, but I think it lends more purpose to the recasts than "we left them there for sentimental reasons". - W Useless - This would be better if the target couldn't see that they were marked until the mark is charged, but even then eve has no gap closer save her ult. With her q being a short range, blockable spell, she has almost no opportunity to make use of this spell, it replaces the spell it needs in order to function well. Solution - Complete rework please! Or give back the old e, or make the mark not show until charged, or when active reduce her detection range significantly (this would add some interesting gameplay as well), reduce the channel duration perhaps as the spell levels from 2 -> 1 second. With these changes you could understandably increase the cd by about 4 seconds. I actually like the idea of eve being one of the few cc-less champs. It let her justify having good burst. Just because her lore makes her out to be some sort of succubus displacer beast doesn't mean you have to force a charm into her kit. - E Neutral/Confused - Move speed on this doesn't make sense, you need it to get in range of this spell, put the move speed on the first hit of her q so she can gap close or something. The refresh is unnecessary, imho this should have a cd reduced by level down to 4s to match her passive. The empowered from stealth idea is cool, but as it currently stands, it doesn't provide enough range to be useful. The passthrough damage is kinda meaningless since you are assassinating something then gfto, I'd rather something more applicable. Finally there is the percentage max health damage .... Is she meant to assassinate squishies or brawl with bruisers? If you want her to be an assassin, as her squishiness suggests, just give her a 1.0 ap ratio or something. - R Good-ish - It could use some tuning, but I like the direction they wen't with this. They seem to be trying to push her towards assassin and this fits well with that (assuming the rest of the kit is fixed). The confusing thing about this is the double damge to enemies below 30%. It's confusing because it's so weak, equating to a 15% max health execute assuming NO resistances. Compare it to urgot (25% max hp true damage ranged execute) or any number of other characters. It could at least get bumped up to enemies below 40 percent, making it a mitigatable 20% max hp execute. Overall, I'm disappointed, I was really looking forward to this rework. Give me old eve with the new ult and I'd be perfectly happy, or make some major changes. Let's be honest though, I doubt we'll see anything but some number fiddling. PS Who else finds Xin's new qw clunky as well? His ult is nice though.
: What other choices would you be excited about?
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Calad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0PRZVu8m,comment-id=0001000200000000,timestamp=2017-09-07T03:34:16.595+0000) > > What other choices would you be excited about? A long time ago I purchased some holiday runes, it would be awesome if you could provide the old rune art as summoner icons for those of us who purchased these. I currently have sets of "Bountiful Treats", "Headless Horseman", "Piercing Screech", "Speedy Specter", and "Whiches Brew". It would be cool to use these during the harrowing in some form or other. I just think it would be an awesome way to reward players who have participated in the game for so long.
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metamilo

Level 149 (NA)
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