: 14 day suspension? Really
Based on a reply further down, > [{quoted}](name=Liar Usopp,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HkxQBXxG,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-03-08T00:38:39.035+0000) > > Let's just say I called someone a bundle of sticks. you used hate speech. That's an auto 14 Day ban, so it's completely deserved.
: uh, rageblade only stacks on autos. That makes for 4 autos because Q doesnt effect it. you'd still need 2 more autos to even begin getting effectiveness. You're losing the first half of the trade in order to buy an item for the last half on vi, currently, you usually build Warrior > Ghostblade (optionally IMO but the #1 vi builds it all the time), Triforce, Steraks, Tank items Notice that only 1 of those gives attackspeed, and thats because her W is shit. Her W is to reduce the armor so you can continue *quickly bursting* before dipping out.
Rageblade auto caps after 3 autos when used by melee champs, afaik. I can't comment on the rest of the post given that I'm not a Vi main.
Busty Demon (EUNE)
: Tell me your first champion that you fear the most.
When I started, Akali, definitely Akali. Or Kassawin, 99% Ban rate iirc
: I think it's pretty accurate. Find one game in which you played that someone didn't go off, or do something stupid, or flame someone. The fact that you don't think everyone has some form of mental issue, depression, anxiety, less developed cerebral cortex, narcism, god complex, etc. Everyone has something hanging them up in their mind on some aspect of reality. That is a truth of the world. My issue with all of this is that Riot cares more about words than they care about people's actual in game actions and it's often times the actions of people that cause others who normally wouldn't to go off the deep end to go off the deep end. Case in point me. I had a support feed 2 kills to the enemy team then get mad at me the marksmen (even thought it was solely his fault) and left lane and just started dicking around the map basically screwing the whole team over. I got so pissed, I ended up getting a 14 day ban for flaming his ass and I honestly feel this person deserved every word I said to them (normally I try to hold myself but for some reason this asshole set me off). My whole team agreed that this player was not doing the right thing, yet I get the ban for some words even though it was this other players actions that ruined the actual game. But because I use words I get punished. Yeah I used some aggressive words but I could also not escape that game due to no surrender, you can't report in the middle of a match and if you leave you get punished. So Riot forces you to stay in this game with this toxic person compounding the hatred the team has for this person and turning good people into bad people through sheer force of their own toxicity. Riot hardly ever actually takes a look at the events that caused the flame and just punish the flamer, continuing the cycle that allows people that actually ruin the game through their in game actions to continue to do so, while the people that actually care about the game are left to bite their lip and just deal with it. Fuck that.
Doing something stupid isn't a sign of mental illness, just a sign that they don't make good decisions. Which isn't a mental health issue, no one's perfect. That's a statement above my pay grade, but I highly doubt that it's a universal truth that every single person ever in the world has a mental health issue. Someone playing badly isn't an excuse to go off on them. You're wholly in charge of your emotional outlet, if you can't control yourself enough to not go off on someone in chat... that's a strictly **you** problem. The other person feeding kills and getting angry is bad, sure. But you don't have to flame them, it won't make them come back and help you'll just tilt them worse. If they were intentionally trolling, you can report them and they can get a ban. And they punish flamers so much more because it is significantly easier to determine bad chat than it is to differentiate between being bad and intentionally trolling. Better 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man be punished.
y0r1ck (NA)
: Improving Boards: A Few Drastic Ideas and One I Think We Need
Well thought out ideas, and I particularly like the idea of mega threads for each Champ. I don't think making a place specifically for complaining would be good because then you could get people who think they're making a solid case in gameplay that is just complaining, and then that gets removed which leads to more 'Why did my post get removed?' threads on here, and it clutters the board up. This is obviously a worse case scenario. Or also get the g+ issue where people don't make thread because they don't feel that they can articulate their ideas well enough to make a thread, which leads to stagnation.
: I believe that everyone on the planet has some form of mental health issue. This combined with a competitive atmosphere can breed all sorts of unintended interactions. You get people that only want to blame others and never look to themselves, which probably reflects their true to life nature to some extent. You get people that are afraid to do anything period so lack of initiative/lack of confidence causes them to lose and get shit on because they "play safe", probably like they do in real life. Everyone that plays this game thinks they are a master of everyone else's role including their own, so thinking that you are smart isn't the same as actually being smart, most often times they are dumb as shit. Then you have the people that complain about everything then try to get you to listen or follow them, even though their actions throughout the game shows that they are anything but a leader to be followed. No one playing this game (below a certain level) actually cares about the team aspect of the game. People don't like being told what to do. People don't like to have their actions questioned. We are not allowed to flame them or call them out on their bullshit so they just continue down the same path cause we gotta treat everyone like they are a wittle baby, wah. Even if you tell people "don't fight, i'm pushing this wave first." the very next thing they will do, is fight, die, then flame you for not being there, even though they clearly saw you weren't there, then still chose to engage or put themselves in a position to get engaged on, then flame you for not being there. Fucking, mental. My advice don't say shit to anyone. Period. End of story. Unless you are actual friends with that person or know them. A lot of the player base is too immature to actually take constructive criticism seriously so even if you are nice, I highly doubt that will change the way they respond to you. This is just my thought on playing this game for 3 years. It's always the same story when it comes to in game flame.
I don't think your assessment of humanity as a whole is terribly good, although I think most everyone could use some therapy even if they're otherwise mentally sound.
Jo0o (NA)
: I'm all about expressing anger if I feel the need to do so, just not in the in-game chat. Ruining morale, picking fights, and risking running afoul the behavioral system are all for chumps.
Agreed. I can see how my example could be picking a fight and that's a definite no no. Thanks for your insight!
F35H (NA)
: Here's my outlook: Don't snowball the blame onto other people and blame yourself. If you need to tell someone a tip or something basic, ask first or nudge them. Do not fall into snowballs, I.E. hopping on the bandwagon. Finally, remember to compliment others.
Also a good way to deal with it. And it also can help with toxicity since people tend to brighten up a bit when people are nice despite any mistakes. Thanks for your insight!
Rioter Comments
Kelg (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=PH45,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=5FOAOZxA,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-02-24T09:28:04.751+0000) > > Might've just been a chat restriction, not a 14-day ban. I don't think it should be a 14 day or perma tbh. It's bad, but I definitely don't think its "perma on first offense" worthy tbh.
It's not perma on first offense worth. It's a pretty negative word so it probably leads to an easier chat restrict, but it's not an immediate gameplay suspension on one use.
Jo0o (NA)
: To be clear, I'm not 100% certain of that like I am with how other specific words are treated. A point can be made in either direction, and most of the folks I see earning bans for using that word are flaming hard and have a history of chat abuse. My understanding is very unscientific.
I'm p sure a mod said something to that effect on the boards before, that it's censored like hatespeech only on the boards. It doesn't escalate to a 14 day immediately in game.
Gothguy665 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-23T22:26:47.693+0000) > > You got banned for being toxic > You were toxic > > I see no flaw in this ban Problem is that toxic should not be punished with ban.Chat restrictions for short ban at max.How to you justify me getting PERMABAN for being a bit toxic?Permaban means that l lost all of my money that l spent on my account and all hours l put in to it.l just called people bad! That's it! l never said anything like "KyS" or " l hope you die of cancer" and horrible stuff like that.In short l just told people they are bad.Do l deserve worst type of punishment for just that?
For repeated instances of it, yes. If this had been your first infraction it would have been a chat restrict like you wanted. But after going through everything else it explicitly states, "Your next punishment will be permanent." You got another punishment. Escalating punishments are a thing all over.
: ***
oh, RIP. I liked browsing, but never felt like I could really contribute to the convo. Sad to see it gone.
Rioter Comments
: ok. I don't need screenshots cause they have chat logs right
They can check the logs manually I'm p sure, yeah. Screenshots aren't necessary afaik.
: ***
Most groups that want to create a community have a certain idea of what they want a community to be. That's not some strange idea specific to riot. And most groups want people to be not negative, that's also not specific to riot. It's not convenient, it's basic social etiquette.
: Then your friends can play ranked with the other kids without phones. and stay ouit og the ranked for the ponce who play for real with 1 account, who just want, decent games without trolls
>"MAKE IT SO U ONLY CAN PLAY RANKED IF U HAVE ASSIGNED OUR PHONE NR TO THE ACCOUNT" > >Then your friends can play ranked with the other kids without phones Pick one. But also, what benefit does it serve to penalize people for not having a phone? Also, as others have noted, you can get a short term number easily.
Madjack01 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=mtothe6thpower,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=2XuK6kpY,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T13:30:19.811+0000) > > They literally never mentioned harassment or harassing. I don't see the relevance of posting a dictionary definition of something that isn't even mentioned. I think OP tries to insinuate that moderation is harassing him because they implied that they are keeping an eye on him and his past behaviour which OP considers "creating an unpleasant situation" by not feeling welcome. Then again, who knows what's up with these vague and undirected responses.
Ah, that makes perfect sense. The vagueness threw me off, plus I'm absolutely horrendous at social interaction. Although point three could be them defining their own behavior of "worrying" the moderation team.
Awf Meta (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=2XuK6kpY,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-17T19:56:43.622+0000) > > Hello, **awf meta**. > > This will be the one time I extend a friendly warning. > > We are aware of the account this is an alternate account of, and we are aware of the recurring habit of posting passive-aggressive or "informational" threads against moderation that is continuing on this account. Suffice to say, you have been warned multiple times and have an account permanently banned for this behavior and other similar behavior. If you have a concern, you can raise it without comments like "looking forward to the moderators telling me I'm wrong." If you have a question, you can raise it directly without swipes such as "are moderators forum moderators or PEOPLE moderators?" with no further explanation of your meaning or the intent of such a question. > > We're not above reasonable discussion, as my conversation with you on Discord should indicate. If, however, you continue to push us in this manner, you will find we become less and less understanding and less inclined to give you the leeway we have been. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harass (1) : to annoy persistently was harassing his younger brother (2) : to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct was being harassed by her classmates claims that the police were unfairly harassing him 2 : to worry and impede by repeated raids
They literally never mentioned harassment or harassing. I don't see the relevance of posting a dictionary definition of something that isn't even mentioned.
Eedat (NA)
: Need Moderator confirmation
I was literally coming here to make this thread, since I've seen a lotta people claim that it's a ZT word in the IFS system in game, and I wasn't sure if that's correct. Thanks for making the post! It's really helpful!
: Sounds kind of kinky.
I mean, there are definitely communities for that kinda thing.
Kei143 (NA)
: Algebra test time; If a lvl 11 Annie has an AP ratio of 2.4, how much AP is needed to full combo 1 shot the enemy Vayne that has 28 MR and 1274 hp?
About 647, give or take a decimal.
Eedat (NA)
: Ah I see. I misread what he was saying
No worries! I actually missed it the first time too. :P
Eedat (NA)
: > There is no possible way to skip a 14day ban unless it's for cheating. Errrrrmmmmmmm not correct. If you get caught straight up cheating (like scripting) its straight to permaban. You can skip to a 14 day ban for using hate speech, threats, or encouraging others to harm themselves. If you get hit for trolling, inting or griefing its also straight to 14 day ban Edit: misinterpreted what you were saying, don't mind me
That's what they're saying. Unless you're cheating you can't skip over the 14 day ban. You can skip chat restricts for particularly egregious language as you mentioned, and gameplay offenses start out at 14 days, but are on a separate ladder from chat based punishments.
: Yeah bro, Riot owns my macbook and OBS ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚
Literally not what they're saying. All the content of the game is owned by riot. No one is saying that riot owns your macbook.
: No, there isn't.
Yes there is. Infinitely many even numbers, and infinitely many even and odd numbers. Infinity = Infinity, ergo, total even numbers = total even and odd numbers.
: Well that's pretty mean you jerk. I'm telling jikker on you!!!
Ah yes, the tried and true 'Talk to yourself with a straw man argument' never gets old. Absolutely classic.
Syrile (NA)
: I think it is interesting that a legitimate question is instantly downvoted rather than answered. It is almost like there is a dislike of discussion... suppression of thoughts is hardly conducive to a healthy game.
They're down voting because this topic has come up so regularly that it's repetitive. You're not adding new points, and all points have been rehashed to death.
: > [{quoted}](name=zPOOPz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HHnMyGOj,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-02-01T21:39:59.702+0000) > > 2 months is not enough to de-escalate an account. You can be honored AND validly reported in the same game. There are 9 other players in the game and they each honor AND report you. It's not mutually exclusive. Honor progression just means you haven't been reported enough to trigger punishment that drops it. > > They didn't ignored it. The support agent clearly admitted it was a mistake on the IFS part. That's why manual reviews exist. > > You're not the first or the last that the IFS mistakenly sent the wrong chat log, issued the wrong punishment, etc. That's why Rito do audit their system and you are allowed to submit support ticket at any time to request a manual review if you feel your punishment is issued in error. They did manually reviewed your punishment. They admitted it was issued in error. Just not the way you want it. Okay so let me break this down for you: 1.) There is an algorithm in place that determines deescalation. (Its an automated system.) 2.) Eric Matthews can't go into the details as to why the algorithm was wrong. So how does he know it is wrong? He has arbitrarily decided it is. 3.) If everyone on league is subject to the same rules then arbitrary decisions like this shouldn't exist. Otherwise the rules aren't being applied fairly to everyone. Which is fine because they're a private company. It just has to be known then that they're not fair.
As for your point 2, just because someone can't tell you why something is happening, doesn't mean it's not happening. Someone who works at KFC can't go into detail on the secret ingredients in their famous fried chicken, doesn't mean that the chicken isn't being made with the ingredients. Google can't go into detail on how their intellectual property is made or how the code works, doesn't mean that they don't know the code or can tell when it's wrong.
: ***
And you continued playing the game for the remaining 8 seasons since then... why?
: I wonder why people are leaving league
Well, unless someone else on the team reports him then yeah, he's gonna get away scot-free. You have to get a report to get punished. I hate that you had to deal with the toxicity, it sucks. You can always send a support ticket to riot about the behavior since you can't report in post game from ya know, not being in there. Best of luck to you.
: > [{quoted}](name=mtothe6thpower,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bOqt4mtO,comment-id=0000000000000000000000010000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-01T02:40:18.640+0000) > > Just because you remember something doesn't mean it happened. Classic Nelson Mandela / Bearenstain Bears effect. You need to have hard, empirical evidence to make any claims, your memory that can be faulty is nowhere near good enough. Where are your hard facts that riots behavior management is shit?
I'm not claiming that it is. Just explaining why "I remember this happened," holds about as much water as a sieve
: > [{quoted}](name=mtothe6thpower,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bOqt4mtO,comment-id=0000000000000000000000010000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-01T02:40:18.640+0000) > > Just because you remember something doesn't mean it happened. Classic Nelson Mandela / Bearenstain Bears effect. You need to have hard, empirical evidence to make any claims, your memory that can be faulty is nowhere near good enough. Yes, I know, this is true and is why eyewitness testimony to specific events doesn't hold up in court. The difference is I'm not recounting one particular event, this is many repeated events, interviews and observations accumulated over time.
Okay, then show your hard, empirical evidence of those repeated events, interviews, and observations. Otherwise, they're hearsay and memories and thus, worth squat.
: > [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bOqt4mtO,comment-id=00000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T01:49:15.329+0000) > > Ever heard of false memory? > > It's years ago. You're remembering what you want to remember, not necessarily what actually happened or the full story. You're funny dude. Telling me what I do and don't remember. You're a "specialist" of what exactly?
Just because you remember something doesn't mean it happened. Classic Nelson Mandela / Bearenstain Bears effect. You need to have hard, empirical evidence to make any claims, your memory that can be faulty is nowhere near good enough.
: > [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7ag9rhGb,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-29T03:47:35.286+0000) > > So, you were making fun of others for their speaking of a language multiple times.. but unless youโ€™re using specific racist words that generally hasnโ€™t gotten an escalated punishment in the past. > > It is possible Riot saw your belittling for language skills as racist enough to merit an escalated punishment. It is also possible that the system made an error. It is also possible it gave you the wrong or an incomplete chat log. > > Regardless, your best bet is to contact support and ask them why it was escalated without a prior chat restriction. Racist? Lol. Language isnt a race. If thats the case, Rito is really on one there. I guess i wouldnt be surprised though, since theyve also decided that words have emotions.
It's not racist, technically it's linguistic discrimination, but people getting mad at others for speaking another language is likely tied to the assumption that the other person is of a given race that would have that as a first, or primary language. Which is then tied to a racist connotation about a given racial group, that they're "dumber" because they can't speak, in this case, english properly.
: ***
That's still all anecdotal evidence, since you have no actual proof of it happening. They don't want to squeeze more money out of banned people on new accounts, they want banned people to Leave The Game. Perma-banning someone is Riot's way of saying they don't want someone playing their game.
: ***
Well yeah, if your concern is "This is stupid," and the thing you're complaining about is covered by something you have to sign before you can even play the game, people are gonna bring it up.
: To the people who disliked Tyler1 since back when he was banned, how do you feel about him now?
I'm generally not a fan. I wish him the best and hope that he learns how to properly channel his passions into constructive critiques instead of "YOU'RE TRASH!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!" Even if he's "reformed" in game, as a person his reactions to stuff gets under my skin. His yelling and over the top rage outs are annoying and not at all entertaining, as well as the particular super cocky persona that he has just reeks of conceit imo.
Awf Meta (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=mtothe6thpower,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=t3mhGNWK,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-27T18:05:25.381+0000) > > /muteall prevents the negative chat, guaranteed effective, and already exists!! Nothing even has to be added, you're welcome! Can't mute in champion select or post game. So much for "guaranteed effective". I'm done responding to you. Have a nice day.
That assumes opting out of chat would remove pre and post game chat. Which given the way those both work, it wouldn't. You can also just leave post game chat immediately, and if people are toxic in pregame you can dodge if you want to avoid it so badly.
Awf Meta (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=mtothe6thpower,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=t3mhGNWK,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-01-27T17:35:41.953+0000) > > And based on number of people I've seen argue for and against opt in chat, anecdotally ofcourse, there's fewer people who want it and is outweighed by people who would still use chat. Why would they ever implement something that has to be opted into, that would be used by a non majority of the player base? Read the OP. I gave some reasons. > It's counter intuitive to add opt in chat as well. In the current system if someone wants out they have the options above, if someone wants to stay in, they do nothing. Just like every other game. If someone so badly wants out of chat, move the box. You are describing reactions. Opt-in chat is a preemptive measure. Opt-in chat prevents the negative chat. It is also guaranteed effective.
/muteall prevents the negative chat, guaranteed effective, and already exists!! Nothing even has to be added, you're welcome!
Awf Meta (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=mtothe6thpower,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=t3mhGNWK,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-01-27T07:02:38.301+0000) > > There are multiple guides on how to change the chat boxes so that they're not visible to the player, like moving it off screen etc. Therefore there's no need for this. If you want to opt out of chat, it's easily possible. Not as easy as an automatic opt-in system.
And based on number of people I've seen argue for and against opt in chat, anecdotally ofcourse, there's fewer people who want it and is outweighed by people who would still use chat. Why would they ever implement something that has to be opted into, that would be used by a non majority of the player base? It's counter intuitive to add opt in chat as well. In the current system if someone wants out they have the options above, if someone wants to stay in, they do nothing. Just like every other game. If someone so badly wants out of chat, move the box.
Awf Meta (NA)
: Chat
There are multiple guides on how to change the chat boxes so that they're not visible to the player, like moving it off screen etc. Therefore there's no need for this. If you want to opt out of chat, it's easily possible.
: Simple Question
0/10 Optimistic guy all the way. Because the optimistic guy will always do his best to win, while the toxic guy will hurt the teams ability to work together. The optimistic guy will hopefully listen to calls and work with the team. The toxic guy will call everyone trash and rage split or try to rambo because he's the "best" player. If someone has better mechanical or macro skill than a certain ranking but has been stuck there for a long time, then they are the reason they're there, and if they're toxic the logical extrapolation is that their toxicity is why they're stuck.
B1GTYMER (NA)
: Jikker who locked my thread:
> [{quoted}](name=B1GTYMER,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=YyNdTKwB,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-01-02T20:02:43.541+0000) > > Your notice of insults and inflammatory comments seems notably restricted. If someone uses profanity in any way to me it is an insult. If I write a thoughtful thread and someone answers it in lowercase letters in monosyllables that is also an insult. It is a dishonour for a thirteen year old child to go up to two intelligent adults speaking to each other and contradict one of them words far beneath their level of discourse. It's insulting to insinuate that everyone who disagrees with you is a teenager. It's also not against the League forum rules to curse, if that's an issue for you might I suggest getting a browser extension that replaces words. It'll help you avoid that. > Your rules are childish and hopelessly naive. Why do you allow profanity on these message boards? That is far more of an eyesore than the words peasant and imbecile, which you erased. Again, cursing, not against the rules. Peasant and imbecile are almost always used in such a way as to be a jerk to someone else, which is in fact against the rules. >How old are you? What is your religion and moral integrity? Religion != Moral Integrity. I'm an agnostic, I don't subscribe to any particular religious beliefs. I'm still a fairly moral person in my own, and others estimation. >There are some great inconsistencies in what you advocate. A man that enforces "respect" and at the same time suffers people to use the worst profanity does not know goodness or morality. It is notably inconsistent and makes you seem to be a silver-tongued bully than anyone of any substantial morality. Don't speak to me of propriety. How exactly is cursing a moral or immoral act? I'm legitimately curious. How does me saying fuck impact my morality? I still try to do good and be good. I help others, I try to love everyone, I do my best to help people. I also say fuck. So how does that impact my morality?
: Oh ok. But wouldn't it be kinda weird for the "children" to be exposed words such as "fuck" and not have it be censored in a way? I understand what you are saying, but it just seems kinda insidious to censor words like r%%%%%ed that, while being used in a derogatory context, isn't as explicit as those other curse words?
You have to be at least 13 to play League I believe. Most 13 year olds are on average in 7-8th grade in public school. That's old enough for most people to be exposed to the word fuck generically through day to day life.
rujitra (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=mtothe6thpower,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=BdAAsiEp,comment-id=00050001000000000000000000000000000100010001,timestamp=2018-12-25T18:28:34.315+0000) > > That's restoring a word, ie reclaiming it for the general populace. > > Reclaiming, or reappropriating, a slur is more commonly understood to be defanging it from being used as a weapon against those groups. While yes restoration should be the end goal most words will probably have to go through reclamation or reappropriation first. So it's acceptable to "reclaim" a word by being racist in who can use it? Seems like that's not reclaiming shit, just turning one form of racism into another. If that's what your idea of reclaiming is, that's illogical and almost as useless as government paperwork.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=BdAAsiEp,comment-id=000500010000000000000000000000000001000100010000,timestamp=2018-12-25T19:07:05.450+0000) > > So it's acceptable to "reclaim" a word by being racist in who can use it? Seems like that's not reclaiming shit, just turning one form of racism into another. > > If that's what your idea of reclaiming is, that's illogical and almost as useless as government paperwork. If you can't understand "This word has been used in the past to harm a specific group and therefore that group should be the one to start the process of restoration to the exclusion of other groups," then I can't make you understand. Reclamation is a multi step process.
rujitra (NA)
: In fact, no. Reclaiming a word is done by returning the word to standard English vernacular. The most recent example I can think of is the word trans, which was originally acceptable to refer to someone transgender, then became insulting and demeaning, but now trans people for the most part actually encourage the words "trans-male" if you're describing someone who is transitioning. A word is not reclaimed by simply changing the type of "ism" associated with it. Being racist against others when reclaiming the word doesn't make the word any less racist. It just changes it to a different type of racism which is still not okay.
That's restoring a word, ie reclaiming it for the general populace. Reclaiming, or reappropriating, a slur is more commonly understood to be defanging it from being used as a weapon against those groups. While yes restoration should be the end goal most words will probably have to go through reclamation or reappropriation first.
: > [{quoted}](name=mtothe6thpower,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=BdAAsiEp,comment-id=00050001000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-12-25T17:05:02.325+0000) > > You're white. Therefore you belong to the whole group of white people everywhere. You belong to the group of people that used the N word against black/African-American people to harm them. Just because you didn't use it yourself doesn't make you not white. And the they refers to the entire group that you belong to making it dirty, not just you. > > Alright, then show me the times where "Love", "Sunshine", and "Sunflower" have been used during enactments or encitememts of violence against a specific group. Oh and the words have to be used to describe a group of people, since thats what I was talking about. Burden of proof of that claim lies on you. Now hold on. White Russians are not responsible for the n-word. Crimes are not transmitted by the color of your skin and the idea is deplorable. Now, white Russians have a history of throwing bananas at black people, calling them monkeys, and beating them up, so it is a super racist country. But their crimes are unique to them. The hatred and stigma behind the n-word is strictly American.
> [{quoted}](name=EvilDustMan,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=BdAAsiEp,comment-id=000500010000000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-25T17:36:21.836+0000) > > Now hold on. White Russians are not responsible for the n-word. Crimes are not transmitted by the color of your skin and the idea is deplorable. > > Now, white Russians have a history of throwing bananas at black people, calling them monkeys, and beating them up, so it is a super racist country. > > But their crimes are unique to them. The hatred and stigma behind the n-word is strictly American. My phrasing refers to them belonging to the whole group of white people. It wasn't meant to imply that white Russians were responsible for the n word. Although i can see where the confusion comes from, I'm not sure exactly how to reword it to get my point across any better.
SonicAF (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=mtothe6thpower,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=BdAAsiEp,comment-id=000500010000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-12-25T08:48:41.213+0000) > > Why should a group that historically used a word against another group to harm them in some way be allowed to use the word that harmed others? Why should they get access to the word that they made dirty and insulting in the first place? I am white. I am not a part of the group that historically used a word against another group. The word itself was never used to harm people. The only possible answer to your question is another question: who the hell are you to take away my access to the word? I did not make it dirty. I did not make it insulting. > Reclaiming a slur is not about letting other people use it, it's about taking the ability of another person to harm you with that word away from them. Reclamation can only be done by people who have had the word thrown at them by society at large. White people can't reclaim the N word, women and straight men can't reclaim the f slur, men and straight women can't reclaim the d slur, cisgender heterosexual people can't reclaim the word queer. These words have been used in conjunction with physical violence against the groups they were aimed at, thus only those groups can reclaim it. If you ban words for being used in conjunction with physical violence, your entire speech should be banned. Radical left made sure of that.
You're white. Therefore you belong to the whole group of white people everywhere. You belong to the group of people that used the N word against black/African-American people to harm them. Just because you didn't use it yourself doesn't make you not white. And the they refers to the entire group that you belong to making it dirty, not just you. Alright, then show me the times where "Love", "Sunshine", and "Sunflower" have been used during enactments or encitememts of violence against a specific group. Oh and the words have to be used to describe a group of people, since thats what I was talking about. Burden of proof of that claim lies on you.
: Hate speech and slang are not the same things
> [{quoted}](name=mlm olo mlm,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=BdAAsiEp,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-25T03:00:53.550+0000) > > So basically, because some people were assholes HUNDREDS of years ago, present day people aren't allowed to use certain words. Lynchings were still going in full effect less than 100 years ago. These people were assholes less than 100 years ago. >Even though, the culture has DRAMATICALLY changed. You think true racist people are using the same language for HUNDREDS of years? They moved on and created new words that aren't censored. Banning a word does not alter a persons personality. True racist people are going to think racist thoughts no matter how much you ban their language. Culture, maybe, but language not so much. Yeah there's more words that are used to attack black/African-American folks than just the N word, but that's still right up there as one of the more common ones.
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mtothe6thpower

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