Rioter Comments
: Revert Dark Harvest? Thoughts?
I preferred having it front loaded. The new one is super gimmicky and it's hard to judge your "health" when multiple people can apply DH on the same target. Even if that weren't the case though, it's so much better to know from the start just how much life you have after their burst. I don't like being surprised when already low.
: the bias toward AP champ is real. >AD junglers don't have as many problems late game because they can continue to be useful even without having to one shot someone or land anything. Take Camille for Instance. Camille dosnt even use DH. anyway DH change sucks for every DH jng. For Elise, Ekko, Fizz, Taliyah, nidalee... they arent more impacted than a Kha or x DH user.
> [{quoted}](name=Sharpest glasses,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ok0NrVF8,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-11-01T00:38:48.897+0000) > > the bias toward AP champ is real. > > > Camille dosnt even use DH. > > anyway DH change sucks for every DH jng. For Elise, Ekko, Fizz, Taliyah, nidalee... they arent more impacted than a Kha or x DH user. No one claimed Camille used DH. The whole point is that she has sustained damage in her kit and doesn't need DH to scale well. PTA is great on her. AD junglers have higher reliability. They can get a squishy to below 50% even if they miss their skillshots. I think the DH change impacts AP champs more and the ratio is worse than before too. Currently, AD champs have a 5% higher ratio but in the new one, it's 10% more.
Meddler (NA)
: Yeah, we certainly overbuffed Aatrox in retrospect. Being much more cautious with Akali to try and avoid that. Expect we'll do some balance work on Aatrox pretty soon (possibly 8.16).
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=yTorNEcE,comment-id=00290000,timestamp=2018-08-03T16:46:19.806+0000) > > Yeah, we certainly overbuffed Aatrox in retrospect. Being much more cautious with Akali to try and avoid that. Expect we'll do some balance work on Aatrox pretty soon (possibly 8.16). If the Duskblade nerf is significant, people will just stop building it at this point and instead go for tankier items. The systems interact together. You can't nerf everything at once and think it's OK. nerf runes. nerf items. buff tanks. ... that all works together. the changes together are bigger than individually. you risk simply changing the meta without actually improving the game but rather just shifting power to a new dominant strategy/class.
: Personally in my opinion on rammus, basically at this point with his current setup is that. A you either get a couple kills and get to you vami cinder and then are able to clear well and efficiently and then be able to keep Pace with everyone through jungle farming and counterganks. Otherwise there is B which happens much of time playing rammus. This is where you end up not getting kills or a early lead in some way where you end up falling behind since his early clear is so terrible that he can't very easily get items from farming that would allow his to keep clearing quickly and efficiently. These are not even taking into account how vulnerable rammus is to jungle pressure because of just how weak he is early. I personally think he should be able to clear the jungle in a way that is safe and efficiently early, which means that he is not running super low on health to the point where he is incredibly vulnerable to those counter jungle ganks. He should obviously be weak early in the game to the jungle pressure from the enemy team, but at this point his solo clearing is so abismal early that he falls behind in gold super quickly and is unable to catch up if he doesn't get kills on the enemy team to get him to those essential items. I think that rammus should either get the attack speed back that he lost earlier to offset this terrible clear speed or end up getting some extra damage to jungle to make him faster at clearing jungle
> [{quoted}](name=Bark 4 UR Master,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P4eh9Or5,comment-id=003000000001,timestamp=2018-08-03T21:47:20.047+0000) > > Personally in my opinion on rammus, basically at this point with his current setup is that. A you either get a couple kills and get to you vami cinder and then are able to clear well and efficiently and then be able to keep Pace with everyone through jungle farming and counterganks. > > Otherwise there is B which happens much of time playing rammus. This is where you end up not getting kills or a early lead in some way where you end up falling behind since his early clear is so terrible that he can't very easily get items from farming that would allow his to keep clearing quickly and efficiently. > > These are not even taking into account how vulnerable rammus is to jungle pressure because of just how weak he is early. > > I personally think he should be able to clear the jungle in a way that is safe and efficiently early, which means that he is not running super low on health to the point where he is incredibly vulnerable to those counter jungle ganks. He should obviously be weak early in the game to the jungle pressure from the enemy team, but at this point his solo clearing is so abismal early that he falls behind in gold super quickly and is unable to catch up if he doesn't get kills on the enemy team to get him to those essential items. the W buff helps his clear a bit and tbh, there would be no point picking carry junglers if tanky junglers with more reliable ganks also had a great early clear speed and were too tanky to be afraid of the carry junglers early (although it's true that most tanky junglers lack gap closers to escape other than something like Gragas or Sej). Maybe I'm overrating him but I think to not push him over the edge, it might be worth lowering his MR% to 20 30 40 50. If you guys are also nerfing damage and nerfing duskblade then tanks will be stronger anyway. Even a bunch of mids like Ekko and LB are nerfed by these changes pretty hard. Sudden Impact and Electrocute are huge for all of them. it's a necessary weakness. otherwise, tanks would scale too fast, have an amazing mid game and the carries would be too behind to do anything most games or would just get CCd too much for it.
: any worries assassins wont be able to kill tanks even while ahead?
> [{quoted}](name=Laceration,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P4eh9Or5,comment-id=001a,timestamp=2018-08-03T18:49:53.948+0000) > > any worries assassins wont be able to kill tanks even while ahead? they aren't supposed to be able to anyway
: Tank changes for 8.16
Nautilus: I never tried to jg him this season so not sure what to think. It doesn't seem like a clear buff to me. Rammus: Will be good after that for sure. He will still struggle early vs meta junglers but he'll counter some comps and types of champions very hard. I think just giving him 5% bonus AS level 1 was enough. This puts him more into a scaling jungler. It's fine. I think A tier is likely after this but not for every game. This buff may be a bit much tbh and I wouldn't be shocked if he becomes S tier either. His win rate will definitely go up at first regardless because people barely see Rammus anymore. Especially if damage is nerfed in runes for aggro junglers. I actually don't think nerfing stuff like electrocute and sudden impact is fair without touching ALL damage runes essentially. That just imbalances the game and nerfs almost every champion with dashes while not touching some others. It has to be a completely uniform nerf or it makes no sense. Amumu: Going the scaling route makes sense. He used to be a top tier scaler. I'm not sure what to think again but he will probably be super strong if you get there yet still too bullied early in high ELO to really justify the pick. The risk/reward may be worth it if you have strong laners to carry you through early. I think he'd be worth picking sometimes with this. Great with champions like Ziggs. My main concern with some of these champions is becoming a "free win" late or through just farming regardless of how much they failed early. These buffs are not big enough for that to be a serious concern but a few more rounds and it can be. Sion: Fair buff imo but his problem late when I played him last season was that the enemy team literally ignored me and killed my team. I was too tanky for them to ever really kill but after I throw a Q and use R, they just totally ignored me. Lacking tankiness was not the problem. Leona: no clue on her Maokai: this is really big stuff. will put him in the same tier as amumu as a scaling jungler but higher reliability and with less damage. he might actually become top tier if games go longer. I tried jungling him this season and the issue was always clear speed early on. I basically had to have a huge contribution via ganks or scale to late to justify the pick. if I ganked a lot, I'd be underlevelled and underfarmed and if I didn't, it was an improvement but my team would lose. meanwhile, someone like graves could do both. ganks from him with red buff are not as good as mao's but he can do it very efficiently and opportunisitcally. basically, he can ward my jg, bully me, powerfarm his and opportunistically gank/countergank. meanwhile, if I ganked, because my clear speed was much lower, I'd be in a sense losing a lot of gold doing it too since I can't both powerfarm my jg and also gank. I do think that mao is more useful to teams later than graves though. graves requires a lot of peel (which he rarely will get) to actually be more useful past 30 minutes (unless maybe he can split). Kench: not a bad idea but hard to judge. I feel he needs to be able to stack passive in jg to be viable there and that would be interesting. I don't really play support.
: I touched on it on another post, but we're doing some short term work to siphon out some damage from runes. One of the directions we're currently testing with Electrocute is decreasing both the damage and the cd (get the proc more frequently, but with reduced payout). We're not going quite to TL levels, but that's a rough model we're shooting for. Just going to go ahead and drop the current list in here for you guys to discuss. This will also be on the PBE tomorrow. Electrocute Damage :: 50-220 (+50%bAD)(+30%AP) >>> 30-180 (+40%bAD)(+25%AP) Cooldown :: 50-25 >>> 25-20 Cheap Shot Damage :: 15-40 >>> 8-40 Sudden Impact Lethality Bonus :: 10 >>> 7 Magic Penetration Bonus :: 8 >>> 6 Celerity Bonus Movement Speed converted to Attack Damage :: 9.6% >>> 6% Bonus Movement Speed converted to Ability Power :: 16% >>> 10% Scorch Damage :: 20-60 >>> 10-30 Cooldown :: 20 >>> 10 Notably, there's some runes like Aery and Comet not included in this list which are cited pretty frequently, they likely also need more work in terms of gameplay that isn't just simply some number shifts (we're still talking about them though)
> [{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OELP3huv,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-08-03T02:13:20.336+0000) > > I touched on it on another post, but we're doing some short term work to siphon out some damage from runes. One of the directions we're currently testing with Electrocute is decreasing both the damage and the cd (get the proc more frequently, but with reduced payout). We're not going quite to TL levels, but that's a rough model we're shooting for. > > Just going to go ahead and drop the current list in here for you guys to discuss. This will also be on the PBE tomorrow. > > Electrocute > Damage :: 50-220 (+50%bAD)(+30%AP) >>> 30-180 (+40%bAD)(+25%AP) > Cooldown :: 50-25 >>> 25-20 > > Cheap Shot > Damage :: 15-40 >>> 8-40 > > Sudden Impact > Lethality Bonus :: 10 >>> 7 > Magic Penetration Bonus :: 8 >>> 6 > > Celerity > Bonus Movement Speed converted to Attack Damage :: 9.6% >>> 6% > Bonus Movement Speed converted to Ability Power :: 16% >>> 10% > > Scorch > Damage :: 20-60 >>> 10-30 > Cooldown :: 20 >>> 10 > > Notably, there's some runes like Aery and Comet not included in this list which are cited pretty frequently, they likely also need more work in terms of gameplay that isn't just simply some number shifts (we're still talking about them though) I want to know how you guys will compensate the countless champions affected by this (even if not in damage). Sudden Impact for example is huge for dozens of champions like Lee, Ekko, Kha, Rengar, Vi and so on. Pretty much any champion with a dash is taking Sudden Impact primary or secondary and this nerfs them at every stage of the game. Unless you're nerfing rune damage across the board in a comparable manner for every single class and champion, this will invariable hammer down some champions at the expense of others. Champions going resolve, precision or inspiration primary will benefit. Those not going Celerity normally will benefit. Aery, Comet, Phase Rush users etc. will benefit. This doesn't seem like a UNIFORM lowering of damage. It seems like a change that hurts some at the expense of others and many times in an unjustified way.
: Realistically the old rune system didn't give people much to work for either, with the exception of completionists who actually derive joy from getting every piece of available content. For most veteran players they just had massive IP banks that they never spent because they had the needed armor/mr/cdr/ad/as/ap/scaling hp runes. Ideally we can find some other form of meaningful progression, but old runes really weren't it.
> [{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OELP3huv,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2018-08-03T02:24:28.762+0000) > > Realistically the old rune system didn't give people much to work for either, with the exception of completionists who actually derive joy from getting every piece of available content. For most veteran players they just had massive IP banks that they never spent because they had the needed armor/mr/cdr/ad/as/ap/scaling hp runes. Ideally we can find some other form of meaningful progression, but old runes really weren't it. The old rune system was much more about preference and matchup though. You actually could say "oh, I'm vs Wu'Kong, maybe I'll go 3 armor quints" etc. There was much more game to game adjustment possible for optimizing. Many people didn't do it but it was there and it was healthier because they were less game changing. They were just small tweaks. TLD was already a step in the wrong direction for game health. Runes should be of minimal impact and purely about preference not about kits. I also hope you guys understand that nerfing stuff like sudden impact, electrocute etc. is a buff to tanks by itself.
: Realistically the old rune system didn't give people much to work for either, with the exception of completionists who actually derive joy from getting every piece of available content. For most veteran players they just had massive IP banks that they never spent because they had the needed armor/mr/cdr/ad/as/ap/scaling hp runes. Ideally we can find some other form of meaningful progression, but old runes really weren't it.
> [{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OELP3huv,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2018-08-03T02:24:28.762+0000) > > Realistically the old rune system didn't give people much to work for either, with the exception of completionists who actually derive joy from getting every piece of available content. For most veteran players they just had massive IP banks that they never spent because they had the needed armor/mr/cdr/ad/as/ap/scaling hp runes. Ideally we can find some other form of meaningful progression, but old runes really weren't it. Runes don't help the game enough to justify their existence imo. They are almost never really about preference or style anyway. They become just about kit synergies. For example, does my champion have a dash? I want sudden impact. Does my champion have a large MS bonus? I want celerity. Does my champion burst? I want Electrocute. maybe 20-25% can be considered preference but ultimately, champion kit defines runes and the meta is defined BY the runes. The meta reflects which champions utilize the runes most optimally. I don't think it's a healthy addition and it makes the game worse for it. The old system with 30 points and the ability to pick stats like armor, mr etc. had its own problems but it HELPED the game. It was ACTUALLY much more about preference and there were far more little tweaks you could make to survive hard lanes (armor quints and flat armor for example), points in the defense tree for more armor etc. Game changing runes don't actually help the game's health. They inevitably skew the roster because their power will define the meta. For runes to actually help, they have to basically be ONLY about play style and not about kit synergies so that they're "must take". BTW: Shouldn't celerity get at least 0.5% MS back or something if that change goes through? Scorch also seems super useless even with that reduced CD. If it doesn't have any scaling, I can't imagine anyone taking this.
Rioter Comments
: Yorick Needs Buff
he needs absolutely no buffs are you joking? he's S tier
Rioter Comments
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: Conq procs on your first AA. W is an ability that applies on hit effects. Why should it proc conq?
> [{quoted}](name=TomiMan7,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=5RA7OEcm,comment-id=00600000,timestamp=2018-07-06T19:32:22.336+0000) > > Conq procs on your first AA. W is an ability that applies on hit effects. Why should it proc conq? abilities that apply on hit are basically treated like autos.. ez q for example
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 6
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=5RA7OEcm,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-07-06T15:44:21.394+0000) > > Hi folks, > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > **Usual Disclaimers** > > These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > **Impact of 8.13b** > > We've been looking at the impact of the mini patch from earlier this week (8.13b). Looking reasonable so far, with moderate amounts of power as hoped added to Trist, Cait and Varus. We're keeping an eye on Aatrox, since we're starting to see some really strong performances from him on players who've got passed the initial learning curve. Also watching a couple of ADCs who were doing well before the changes who've benefited a bit from the Stormrazor change (e.g. Draven). No immediate plans to make changes to them, but want to make sure we haven't over buffed. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > **Lissandra** > > As mentioned previously we've been testing a new Lissandra passive internally for a couple of weeks. It's been going fairly well, so figured I'd share a look at it as a result, despite some risk it still might not work out. Given this is still earlier in testing I've also omitted some numbers and those that are listed are more to give an example of how it works than because they're necessarily what could ship. > > "Iceborn > > When a champion Lissandra has damaged within the last 3 seconds dies they become a Frozen Statue. Frozen Statues slow nearby enemies by 30%. After 2.5 seconds Frozen Statues shatter, dealing X (+Y AP ratio) magic damage to nearby enemies." > > Intent is to help Lissandra's contributions to multi enemy fights after she's used her initial CDs. Use cases include getting a zone of control after diving in and killing a backline target and helping zone enemies after killing enemy divers or other front line. Doesn't have as much impact early game, but has proven useful in some early 2v2s when both junglers show up and early objective fights. If going ahead with it would be paired with some mana cost reductions to her kit. Statues also count as terrain, so they'll both block pathing slightly and can be combo'd with things like Gnar ult, Poppy E etc. > > In terms of time frame, we'll probably have a clear enough read on whether the gameplay's solid pretty soon, so will likely make a call on whether or not to go ahead within a week or two. One of the downsides of changing abilities like this however is that, where it's a big departure from previous functionality, there's a need for a bunch of art and audio work. Not sure yet what the likely timeframe on that would be, would take a while though. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > **More 8.14 changes to hit the PBE today/next week** > > For anyone wondering why the PBE's been pretty quiet and where followup changes to various mages stuff's still coming. Should be some more balance changes to champions getting into the patch today and in the first half of next week. Since 8.13-8.14 is a 3 week patch we've been taking some time earlier in the cycle to work on other things, champ changes still coming though. > > http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png What are your thoughts on Swain bot? It seems strong. He's harder to dive than normal ADCs, has a stronger early, has more utility, more AoE and has consistent DPS. I think he's among the best ADC substitutes. Ziggs for example has way more weaknesses: squishier, much weaker pre first back, lacks consistent DPS (unless you land your stuff), less utility etc. Swain just seems to be the perfect generalist bot mage vs most ADCs. I am not saying that it's necessarily OP since I don't think people know what to do vs a Swain either but I've seen great performances from bot Swains and it seems to be picking up in competitive too.
Rioter Comments
Storiaron (EUNE)
: Is hecarim likely to get some buff? I remember to a smaller one to his W but it didn't change anything, and he is still rarely played, and doesn"t really offer things that others don't offer better/more. His lategame isn't too good, his mid game isn't as impressive either, and his early is as bad as always, and apart from some fun ganks(and let's be honest zac/rek'sai/kayn can do funnier ganks)he is just a liability for his team. Is it possible that top/mid hecarim would get some care for himself or it was pushed out of existence forever?
> [{quoted}](name=Storiaron,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EOVcvy54,comment-id=005c,timestamp=2018-07-04T19:49:41.608+0000) > > Is hecarim likely to get some buff? I remember to a smaller one to his W but it didn't change anything, and he is still rarely played, and doesn"t really offer things that others don't offer better/more. > His lategame isn't too good, his mid game isn't as impressive either, and his early is as bad as always, and apart from some fun ganks(and let's be honest zac/rek'sai/kayn can do funnier ganks)he is just a liability for his team. > > Is it possible that top/mid hecarim would get some care for himself or it was pushed out of existence forever? What is wrong with his mid game? I think people should just take Phase Rush.
Meddler (NA)
: I still miss the days when we had forum avatars and wanted to get a little bit of that feel back, even if it's a slightly awkward way of doing so. Ziggs was the one I used back in the day too. He's the first champion I got to handle the design on myself so I've got a real soft spot for him.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EOVcvy54,comment-id=00480000,timestamp=2018-07-04T19:43:39.378+0000) > > I still miss the days when we had forum avatars and wanted to get a little bit of that feel back, even if it's a slightly awkward way of doing so. Ziggs was the one I used back in the day too. He's the first champion I got to handle the design on myself so I've got a real soft spot for him. Ziggs is an awesome champion, please don't rework him! I beg you. Maybe he can use a bit more AP on W or something but don't rework him! I know you said nothing about a rework but I'm terrified.
DeusVult (NA)
: Pyke is the only assassin that actually works as a balanced assassin
pretty sure Pyke is overtuned he's not outperforming just because players are still bad at him since he's relatively new
Meddler (NA)
: There's some risk there certainly. Power of specific champions and classes will fluctuate somewhat as the overall state of the game changes. We feel some ADCs are too weak even accounting for that variation though, hence buffs to a number of them and some item paths. Possible we need to take a bit of power out again someday, but feel better to risk that than letting them sit in too poor a state.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EOVcvy54,comment-id=001a0000,timestamp=2018-07-04T16:03:42.642+0000) > > There's some risk there certainly. Power of specific champions and classes will fluctuate somewhat as the overall state of the game changes. We feel some ADCs are too weak even accounting for that variation though, hence buffs to a number of them and some item paths. Possible we need to take a bit of power out again someday, but feel better to risk that than letting them sit in too poor a state. I think you guys should be really cautious about buffing ADCs further from now on if you are also aiming to reduce snowball further since that will get them closer to late game. I think Baron should have a little more HP and probably turrets as well. Although, Corki certainly seems forgotten ever since he got gutted months ago. This is probably what I hate most about how balance frequently works for this game. A lot of times, a champion gets overbuffed or gutted instead of just small tweaks. Or, if small tweaks do occur, they are not reconsidered in a meta change (example, WW nerfs when JG meta became level 2 even though I suppose he's still fine outside of the highest levels). Likewise, if that round of nerfs is overdone, it'll usually not be reverted in the next patch or any time soon. Eve was an exception to this so that was nice to see. Then after the small tweaks, bigger nerfs hit if a champ is still too powerful, instead of making even smaller tweaks given the previous nerf. The last round of nerfs is frequently unwarranted or overdone and is mostly a result of people still remembering the terror of that champion rather than being objective (or because well-practiced competitive strategies are still used with it even if it's not actually overperforming). It's basically just people band wagoning. Then, instead of a rapid readjustment, we get even months of that champion languishing and the clear overnerf is not reconsidered quickly. Rinse-repeat. Exhausting. You'd think after 8 years that this game would need only tiny fine tuning and not constant massive changes to champion viability over and over again.
: I want tanks back :c
tanks open up more viable compositions and classes I think they should definitely be healthy for a good meta I can't even play Ziggs with no frontline and that seems to be the norm now so basically one of my favorites is not good
: PSA: average game times at patch 8.11 ranged from 27min (low mmr) to 23min (high mmr)
yeah, the game is pretty shitty now on all but early-mid game champs snowball meta is out of control I want the chance to carry YES that is good but not at the expense of having a real game there are too many artificial things that help a team continue to be ahead balance is out of whack and a large portion of the roster isn't viable + the S tier oppresses the rest like never before
azulodin (NA)
: Option to Mute Emote Notifications?
found it, it's in Interface for the emote bubble
: The patch notes said it was in communication. Granted i havent messed around with it yet. My best bet would be in communication.
> [{quoted}](name=fallenreaper88,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2uILJUyR,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-13T18:06:26.687+0000) > > The patch notes said it was in communication. Granted i havent messed around with it yet. My best bet would be in communication. I'm looking at it and don't see a way to disable the notifications.
SirPurrr (NA)
: Everyone Has a Dash - EKKO Issues with W
His AP ratio on E could go up with ranks. Or maybe he should just get 3 more base armor to help him in jg and lane a bit so he can try to hit mid game more successfully.
: Why're you looking at Diamond+ as opposed to Plat+ or Master+? Diamond+ includes the top 2% of the playerbase, which is a small sample size compared to the remaining 98% (something you've been pointing out in multiple comments). If you want the _best _ Ekko players, use Master+ If you want data more relevant to the remaining 98% of the playerbase, use Plat+ or Gold+ I don't know much about Ekko's win rates, but looking only at the top 2% is like when Riot balances the game around LCS.
> [{quoted}](name=Mystery MisterYi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vGqrRT1f,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-06-04T01:11:14.566+0000) > > Why're you looking at Diamond+ as opposed to Plat+ or Master+? > > Diamond+ includes the top 2% of the playerbase, which is a small sample size compared to the remaining 98% (something you've been pointing out in multiple comments). > > If you want the _best _ Ekko players, use Master+ > If you want data more relevant to the remaining 98% of the playerbase, use Plat+ or Gold+ > > I don't know much about Ekko's win rates, but looking only at the top 2% is like when Riot balances the game around LCS. That's the only way balance makes sense though. If you balance around players who don't know how to properly utilize their champions, don't understand macro, don't understand the game in general, all you do is ruin the game. Balance SHOULD be based around PROPER play and not the vast majority of the player base. Your player base will improve and even if they don't, you can't have a competitive game with shit balance for the people who actually know how to play it. I think balance should assume near perfect play and of course we'll fall short but at least it will actually be fair and won't be the game's fault. I can see it now *player gets hit by a full xerath ult and all his abilities while running away in a predictable line* "OMG guys, this champ is so busted! took my whole HP bar! wtf is Rito doing with their balance? this is unbelievable!"
zecastar (NA)
: It would be nice to see Ekko in competitive matches again. I don't think I've seen one in over a year now. It seems that people at the very top don't value him much. I know of no Challenger Ekko mains but then again, I didn't research it very deeply. Shiphtur plays him sometimes for fun but only with a 50% win rate and he's definitely not a one trick. On the other hand, I know there are many Sol mains in Challenger, some Talon mains, Kat mains etc.
> [{quoted}](name=zecastar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vGqrRT1f,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-06-03T23:14:21.397+0000) > > It would be nice to see Ekko in competitive matches again. I don't think I've seen one in over a year now. It seems that people at the very top don't value him much. I know of no Challenger Ekko mains but then again, I didn't research it very deeply. Shiphtur plays him sometimes for fun but only with a 50% win rate and he's definitely not a one trick. On the other hand, I know there are many Sol mains in Challenger, some Talon mains, Kat mains etc. probably won't happen while Zoe can do Ekko's job from half a screen away and there are many others who can too :D it's not like Zoe has zero utility either. she doesn't have his situational survivability but she also doesn't need it because she's ranged, same as LB the only real reason to pick Ekko over these is the waveclear but LB and Zoe can just bully their opponent and shove + roam during that window they snowball so much easier and more safely. since Ekko's survivability isn't always on and he's melee, he still needs some resists, some hp etc., they don't. they can invest all their gold into just snowballing the shit out of the game. worst of all, they outscale as long as you have a reasonable comp. with some frontline to peel.

nozik555

Level 34 (NA)
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