: Right, so you really don't know. My bad, though, for not explaining it. Heals are semi-permanent. Once you heal, you have that health until something damages you. Similarly, armor has no fixed duration. Although, yes, tank items were ruined for quite some time. That's why tanks that're still viable are the ones who got damage buffs. The others either aren't played any more, or build AP bruiser. Shields, on the other hand, have very short durations. They need to be timed properly to use them properly. If there were an item that just always gave you extra damage or reduced enemy shields, that'd be as unfair as having a defensive item that always applied a shield to damage. The built-in counter for shields is the duration.
All I'm going to say about shields applied with damage is Steraks, Locket, and the rune (even though it's kinda weak). I don't care if they made it an active item, as long as something gets made to counter shields. Dealing more damage to shields is completely fair and so is shielding when damage is applied. How often and when these interactions take place is the key. A built-in mechanic is not a counter. It's a weakness. The shield would run out regardless of if you took action or not. I do know the difference between shielding and healing and I guess you are not being scarcastic; you're being dillusional. Even if shields were non-permanent and healing is permanent, they both serve the same purpose; Allow you to take more damage and keep you alive if possible. See, healing only works until you hit max HP. You can't heal over your max HP unless you're running a rune. With shields, your HP has nothing to do with it as it is its separate health. One gives another layer of health that runs out after time and the other gives extra health permanently. If you dealt 500 damage to a 500hp shield, you damage that layer taking no damage to your actual health thus, you keep the same amount of health before the shield. If you dealt 500 dmg to someone who was healed for 500hp onto their permanent health, they still end up with the same amount of health they had before the healing. As far as armor items go, I have to disagree. It's not the armor or MR items that are bad. It's the excessive damage in this game and the champions at their base kit. By saying armor items or, MR item for that matter, are bad, you are saying they need a buff, but when you buff them, ADCs and mages will complain that they aren't dealing enough damage and then damage items become overpowered again, then tanks get buffed again. So on and so on. The main reason why people complained about tanks was not the fact that during the tank meta, tanks were too tanky. The problem was that they were dealing too much damage, on top of their tankiness. Then you had bruisers who were better at dealing more damage to tanks and teams in general which gave birth to the ADC meta when they complained that they wern't dealing enough dmg to the tanks even though tank items have barely been changed at all. It's always the damage items that are getting buffed, nerfed, or reworked. There's just too much damage overall. It'll never be balanced as people want shorter games. TL;DR
: Shields is the only counterplay to the stupid amount of damage in the game. So we can’t nerf shield until we GUT the shit out of this damage.
I'm not saying nerf shields. I'm saying make an item or a rune/champ that counters shields specifically. Just like the bounty system and earning less gold per kill streak, it indirectly negates leads with no compensation for it.
: It really sounds like you don't know the difference between a shield and a heal...
I do know the difference between shielding and healing. However, I don't know if you're being scarcastic or stupid. What does your reply prove exactly other than to disrespect? In no way are you even trying to defend yourself or make me see how shields don't need counters. If you're not going to explain why you feel as though the class would be ruined, then just down vote and keep your thoughts to yourself because you're not helping your case. Here's another example since you seem to be stuck on healing; They made Lord Dominik's Regards for AD champs to counter tanks and juggernauts and they haven't been ruined. They made void staff to counter magic resist and MR items aren't ruined. Morgana has a shield that counters AP and CC, that doesn't ruin AP mages or champions who have CC in their kit.
: Those are "counterplay" to shields. You claimed they don't have counterplay. Now you're claiming they don't have a _specific counter_.
Ok. I'll give it to you. That is "Counterplaying." So, yes, I'm referring to a specific counter. I mean there is no counter to shields not counterplay to shields.
Saezio (EUNE)
: We also got ample of abilities on champions in almost every position
True but none counter shields. Janna isn't and wasn't a strong because of her design, albeit she did a fuq ton of poke dmg which is understandable since support items give more AP than they should, but the main problem is she had no real counter other than someone like Blitz, Thresh, or Pyke. At that point, you're countering the champ but they did nothing to stop her shielding.
: Waiting until the shield runs out is just one form of counterplay. Other forms of counterplay: Stun, Silence, or Knockup before they can cast it Land your damage before they can cast it Run out their mana so they can't cast it Bait it out, attack while it's on cooldown Bait it out, switching targets last second to hit a different target Apply more damage than it can block Get a gank so you can execute one or more of the previous tactics more effectively. What shield isn't vulnerable to at least two forms of counterplay?
These things aren't counters to shields. These are counters to EVERYTHING. All you're telling me is how to get a kill for anybody. You can kill someone before they heal, stun them before they have to chance to kill, one shot them before they one shot you. You can bait out a Tryndamere ult, a Janna ult, any ult. Applying more damage than it can block is not a counter. That's like saying to counter a shield you just have to hit it. Dealing more damage to the shield or dealing more damage in general as a result of that shield is a counter. A counter is something that is specifically designed to deal with specific things. Like Executioner's Calling which is specifically designed to counter healing or Quicksilver Sash which is specifically designed to combat lock down CC. Or when you counter pick Morgana to combat Blitzcrank's hook. A weakness and a counter are two different things. A weakness can be worked around when managed right. A counter cannot. You can play safe when your shield is on CD or you can trade momentarily when the shield is up, but you cannot land a hook on a Morg shield. You cannot stop BOTRK from taking percent health from you.
Saezio (EUNE)
: > > you got BOTRK and~~ LDR~~. > No longer. You only get that from the rune now. More damage per hp difference I mean
Dam. That kinda sucks for ADCs but o well. we got BOTRK for health and a rune.
: I believe there should be counterplay against melee champion. Not just stay out of range.
There is though; Mages and CC. You want a counter to melee champs, pick Veigar, Morgana, Brand, Kennen, Teemo, Lux. Most mages. Yi is an exception. He's busted asf, but against a competent team, CC him and burst him to oblivion. Same thing with other melee champs. All you have to do is poke them out all game and zone them. They have to get in close to do anything so anyone with range who knows how to position themselves and kite are good.
: So you want to completely ruin a class because you're not good enough to get ahead enough to deal a little more damage against targets with only one CC ability. Right.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OXoQQv0v,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-19T18:57:21.016+0000) > > So you want to completely ruin a class because you're not good enough to get ahead enough to deal a little more damage against targets with only one CC ability. > > Right. First of all, the class wouldn't be completely ruined. They created Mortal Reminder to counter healing and it didn't ruin Vlad, Nasus, or Soraka OR any other champion that relies on healing. You say it'll make the class useless. So what, you want shields to be not counterable? CC is only part of the kit on top of their shielding. Then there are PLENTY of items that grant shielding along with boosting shields.
Rioter Comments
: This is a crazy comment. Play WW and learn to surf the blood trails well. You'll have so much time with crazy high movement speed you'll see more than enough opportunity with it. Even just for baiting out moves, ms is great.
I think you're taking my comment to literal. Of course Movement speed means something. No shit. If we all had 0 movement speed we wouldn't be able to play the game. The point I made was an exaggeration of the fact that movement speed boosts do not feel like movement speed boosts. I can play Udyr and outrun a WW on my blood trail with the right items. He gets a 35% MS boost. It's faster than a 20% boost but it's still slow when you can only catch someone with it if they're completely out of place, if they're slow, or if they're not moving at all unless you want to die.
: The thing is is that you can build so much mobility and have it go to such a high number that 100ish doesnt do much. 500ish is something else. I played a game with a mobi zilean and the only way to kill the mofo was to stun chain him
The cap for raw movement speed is around 500ish but you build items and runes that let you go well over that cap. He probably hit 700 MS or something. In that case, of course you couldn't catch him, but even at a 100 percent boost, he should be the same way. The problem is that they put too much mathematics into it and it highly convoluted MS. If you get a 20 percent MS boost, then it should take 20% less time to catch someone or to get to another point if you didn't have the MS boost. So if it took you 1 second to catch someone without boost, it should take you .48 seconds. If it takes one minute to get down the rift, then with a 20 percent boost, it should take you 48 seconds. This would be insane for champions who exceed 100 percent speed boosts, but to combat that issue, their stats should be cut so that they still have extreme speed but without breaking the sound barrier.
SEKAI (OCE)
: Udyr hasn't been a "mobile" champ since like S2, though. And if you have such a fetish with MS, I recommend playing Rammus, Hecarim, Quinn, or Nunu.
I don't think you're understanding where I'm getting at. Udyr has the same MS as everyone else or at least no more than 50 points off. His E boosts his MS by like 15-30 depending on the rank of the E. That along with celerity and other items should boost his MS up 100+ more than everyone else. THAT SHOULD MEAN SOMETHING. The whole point of my post was that that's not right. Even if Udyr isn't as mobile as he used to be, he' still a mobile champion. All those champs you mentioned can get a MS boost of at least 100% while Udyr can only get 70 percent if he maxes out his E. That's not really that much of a difference, but it should be. Also, they all get at least a 70 percent boost at rank one while Udyr has to max his E out. Even at a 20% boost, catching champions should be fairly easy and quick. I shouldn't have a 20% MS boost and watch the enemy I'm trying to catch run nearly as fast as me.
: I think his higher damage dealt to champions is almost entirely to do with his strong incentive to use any opportunity to poke in laning because of Kleptomancy. I think other marksmen could deal as much damage as Ezreal, but they don't have the same incentive to risk poking if the trade doesn't directly benefit them. For example, other marksmen might just play a passive lane and focus on farming against a healer support bot lane because they can't whittle them down enough to force them to recall, but Ezreal is going to keep poking for klepto procs in that situation. I'd say scenarios like that increase Ezreal's average damage output statistic a lot. I think Ezreal's pick rate is too high, but I don't think he's necessarily too strong compared to other marksmen. I think most other viable marksmen feel too similar to one another and boring. Ezreal's comparable uniqueness makes him more desirable to play. I wish other marksmen had greater variety in their itemization and strengths/weaknesses.
We all know Brand is brain dead and does an F ton of damage. Same thing with Veigar who can one shot practically everyone late game. Well he does more than them. ADCs? Kog'maw is the only one beating him right now in the damage department and Kog'maw is designed to. If Ezreal is bad, other marksmen can deal as much as him, but the fact of the matter is that they are not. If that was the case, then Ezreal wouldn't be sitting where he is in the damage rankings. While Ezreal is a poke champion and poke champions automatically deal more damage than everyone else, but he's still a marksmen. Even his supports who help him poke in lane like Lux and Zyra or who else, aren't dealing as much damage as him. His target is pinned down to one target. Other ADCs can hit multiple targets in short time and still not deal as much damage as him. What about Caitlyn who has the farthest auto attack range? Ez is out poking her. Look at it this way. One marksmen can hit 3 champions 5 times in 3 seconds and Ez can only hit one champion 9 times in 3 seconds. So if one of them is dealing 100 dmg per hit, that's 4500 damage they can deal while Ez can only deal 2700 damage. Idealistically, he should not be dealing more damage than other marksmen who benefit from the item {{item:3085}} or can auto attack multiple champions. He has a numbers disadvantage, but like Brand, he deals too much damage. He doesn't need to hit multiple champions to get 4500 damage when each of his attacks deal 500 damage instead of 100.
: Build and champion diversity is a good thing. Not all botlaners should have to be adc that sit around and autoattack while their players fall asleep at their keyboards just pressing a mouse button. Ez was the first unique adc because he had skillshot and plenty of variety in his kit so the player had to be crafty and find the best use of the tools he had to outplay a situatuion. He also used a unique mana build but he could go ap and build wierd items like frozen gaunlet. They just removed one of those builds and playstyles to try and push him into a generic class so he could get picked more and just mash his keys to do most dmg.
Conceptually, that is alright. But when you put it into actual practice, it's stupid for champs to have diversity. Not only does it blur the line between roles, but it also gives champs strengths they should not have andit completely wipes uniqueness away. Remember when bruisers were played in the bot lane and actually worked? Yeah. No one liked it and everyone wanted ADCs back so they buffed ADCs. There are roles for a reason. When you try to blur the line, you create imbalance. Ezreal was a skill based champ in the beginning, but now all you have to do is land Q. Nothing else and you have plenty of opportunities to do so. Also, he didn't do as much damage as he did in the beginning. They recently started buffing his damage when they changed the rune system. First Klepto + Ez = One Q kill. This game is turning into Yu-Gi-Oh. While it's still popular, it has lost its old players and overall the magic that made the game great. It's still getting new players because it's very popular, but the gameplay has turned into a mosh pit of hot garbage. Everything is doing too much and there is rarely uniqueness as everything can do everything. When Yu-Gi-Oh first came out, it relied heavily on skill and creativity and set boundaries to where you could only use your imagination and experience to win. Now, all you need is one deck since all the cards have a F ton of abilities in their kit. Same thing with League. It doesn't matter how much creativity and imagination you have anymore. All that matters is what champ you pick and who gets caught out first.
Rioter Comments
: Just because an ability is better doesnt mean its better design wise. They should buff old w not make new garbage w witch is much worse
It is better design-wise. That's the point of it being reworked. An adc's kit is supposed to be full of damaging options. Not damage/escapes and more running away. That takes the whole point of being an ADC away. You're supposed to be immobile or at least easy to catch alone with your team playing around the ADC to keep them alive. They might as well rename the class DPS Assassins instead of ADCs since anybody with AD damage can carry. His old W was too conditional and it gave Ezreal little utility and capped his build variety having to either go AD or AP to deal a considerable amount of damage. The only thing that kept it so under powered was the fact that its base stats were very low. The new W takes a bit of that utility he had that anyone hardly used and doped its damage with steroids giving him more damage in his kit and better poking power.
: Reworked Nunu Nerf Please
Also he can deal absurd amounts of damage to you while not building any AP.
Rioter Comments
Yboat (NA)
: Not really, if his w is not up, it takes a very long time too remount unless you land a point blank q.
You get two of em and the cool down is 3 secs. You can shotgun into range and hit a point black and remount in 3 secs if not earlier. Other melee champs have to wait at least 5 seconds for their abilities and on average, their ability CDs are like 8-10 secs.
: I really don't think Ezreal is very strong. He is slippery, sure, but his dps is mediocre for a marksman, especially in laning when he just has {{item:3070}} {{item:3057}}. As a support player, I actually don't like supporting Ezreal because I think he's legitimately weak. According to lolalytics, he averages just 47.8% winrate too (and lower below plat+). The only marksman that I really want nerfed right now is Vayne. Also maybe nerf {{item:3153}}. It seems too strong right now given how many strong champions it's core on despite a general lack of tank presence in the game. Since this thread is discussing Ezreal, I should mention that {{item:3153}} is one of his strongest winrate items. Interestingly, building {{item:3025}} doesn't even boost Ezreal's winrate by much, but that may be because of build order. I wouldn't mind if {{item:3025}} became melee only though, and I would like it if that meant it could be buffed for tanks. Anyways, this is my opinion and you all are free to voice your own opinions.
On Leagueofgraphs, ezreals is dealing an average damage of 22,532 sitting at the 6th highest average damage per game with Kog’Mow sitting at 3rd dealing 24,048 damage. On Champion.gg, he deals 23,046 sitting rank 10 for most damage dealt. Kog’maw is the only ADC that deals more damage 24,146 sitting at 5th rank. Mind you, there are over 100 champions in the game. Nothing about Ezreal’s damage is “Mediocre for a Marksman.” I don’t know what excuse you can use to justify his damage or the technicalities of the items, for a champion who’s damage mostly comes from landing Qs and an R, not autos, and barely Ws, he’s dealing too much damage. Every other ADC has to get in close, spam their entire kit, and continuously auto MULTIPLE champs to deal decent damage but Ezreal only has to hit ONE champ and can still do the same amount of damage. Sure, BOTRK might seem strong, but it’s the only item along with LDR that can really give ADCs and Bruisers a chance to fight against tanks and other champions that stack health. The base stats in the Champ’s kits are the problem not the items.
: He already got nerfed with his "rework" AKA removing w and giving trash new w
Nah. His old w was trash and the new one is OP. His old W only worked for AP Ez and it didn’t do nearly as much damage as it does now. The majority of Ezreal players build nothing but AD and the new W is still dealing crazy damage because now, instead of just AP, it deals AD.
: Maybe don’t sit and eat a after q after q after q after q and you won’t lose your entire health bad. You can’t be expected to dodge them all. But you can be expected to dodge some of them. Ezreal isn’t hard to play against.
What about the times where it’s open field? Like in teamfights, you’re roaming, you’re trying to run away from him? There are plenty of times where he can easily hit you with multiple Qs. You can’t chase him and you can’t outrun him. And he doesn’t q after q after q after q after q to damage your health bad. He only Qs twice and you’re dead. That was an exaggeration but I’m being serious.
: Why Remove Positional Ranking?
Rank by position is a terrible reality with a genius concept. Some people only like playing one role. The problem however, is you will not always get your role and that might not affect your main role, but it still counts. With that being said, like Synthetic Toast was saying, a lot of people can abuse this system and get away with it more times than anyone wants to admit or deal with. On the other hand, players who enjoy playing ranked from multiple roles have to spend twice, sometimes up to 4 times more effort in climbing. You can have 15 consecutive Ranked wins and still be in the Iron division. This forces players to stick to one role but that is almost pointless in Solo Q. If it was Flex Q, the rank by position would be at its best. For solo Q and your anomalies, this is a bad idea. Moving on, your reasoning is completely selfish and it barely has any purpose. If you want a break from your role and not lose much LP, then play Normals. If you want the challenge that Ranked has, which really is no different from Normals, then either play ranked or play Normals until you get the challenge. If you play ranked, then you have to expect to deal with the win/loss system in place. What? You thought you could just hop into ranked and play anyway you wanted to without consequence? There are plenty of game modes (literally every other game mode including 3 v 3 ranked) where you can do that. If you play ranked, every match should affect your overall rank.
: > [{quoted}](name=KlydeFrog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pHLfsJHA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-13T23:44:49.325+0000) > > Umm how? {{item:3025}} ⇒Melee only Would fix several problems, no need to kick Ezreal in the pants in every position he's played because he's obnoxious with this item.
That too. The same way they did Sterak's.
: > [{quoted}](name=KlydeFrog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pHLfsJHA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-13T23:44:49.325+0000) > > Umm how? By letting the game hit 36 miniutes
Or maybe just nerf the amount of damage in his kit. He builds items that give him additional mana while his ability costs are already low. Their cooldowns are short as hell too. He's supposed to be a spamming champ. I don't mind that, but when he's dealing a quarter of your health at level 3 and all throughout the game while still having short ability CDs, he becomes too unbalanced. His w change allowed him to deal EXTRA damage to champs and his Q damage is already pretty high. His mini flash is annoying but that's him. Once he uses it, he's supposed to die, but instead, you die. His damage is too much. By the time you do reach him, you're one Q away from death.
: Kled is fine the way he is. if anything there is a bug that needs to be looked at. when you have high courage and low health. if you get full courage right as you die the game goes "fuck you you die" instead of letting you remount even when you have full courage and you hear the remount tune.
That never happened when I played against him. He's like Pantheon when it comes to taking/receiving damage but he becomes deceptively tanky due to the fact he remounts so quickly. Skaarl acts like two GAs. Not to mention his attacks against champions give him so much courage while runes and his kit already allow him to remount too quickly. He gets a 150 percent AS boost on his next 4 basic attacks for the next 4 secs. That's 60 courage in the next 2 seconds. Then he gets two shotgun blasts which gives him an additional 5 courage on hit. That's a total of 40 courage from his Pocket Pistol. If it doesn't give him an additional 5 upon hit, that's still 30 courage. A total of 90 courage in the span of apprx. 4 seconds. His next basic attack remounts him. You're looking at about 3-5 secs to remount. Mind you, dismounting him is supposed to be his weakness. For a champion that has a great wave clear tool, a great engaging/escaping tool, and a high level of damage, I can honestly say that being able to dismount a Kled should be more punishing to the player who allowed himself to get dismounted.
Rioter Comments
Yboat (NA)
: Where do I get this kled that remount with 2 autos?
Ofc 2 autos was exagerated but he has the capability to remount to quickly.
: It's only two autos if he already has 80% courage, which you can see under his HP. If kled remounts while you're fighting him, either you deal like 0 damage or he entered with high courage and outplayed you tbqh
Not at all. He remounts too quickly. His damage is alright for how squishy he is, but he remounts too quickly.
Rioter Comments
: Some good stuff in here, some really bad stuff too. And the read is rather difficult, you might try editing and improving some of the grammar and structure.
> [{quoted}](name=oOBestEveNAOo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=M9wjEEU3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-02T21:03:29.422+0000) > > Some good stuff in here, some really bad stuff too. And the read is rather difficult, you might try editing and improving some of the grammar and structure. Which parts?
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
dalphy08 (NA)
: Oh I report the HELL out of anyone who decides they're entitled to sit in the jungle the whole game and not help the City in 2v1s at the outer turrets.. They all say the same garbage! "I'm jg", etc. This whole "I am" crap people do now in LoL is proof that they think once they crown themselves some position without asking everyone, they can ignore you all they want when you need help. Is that fair? Damn it, if I need help at bottom lane I don't give a damn if you're a Middle, an ADC (ADC is not a place, it's a thing, so why is it grouped with Middle and Top?), you get your damn hinie to the Top to help me out. The key from the Warcraft 3 era, was that if your character can not survive in EVERY LANE, it's simple: your build & tactics are no good. No one person is entitled to sit in a lane the whole game like a factory part and never help their teammates. **Every player should be in EVERY LANE.**
> [{quoted}](name=dalphy08,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mlQedFlB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-24T17:12:16.740+0000) > > Oh I report the HELL out of anyone who decides they're entitled to sit in the jungle the whole game and not help the City in 2v1s at the outer turrets.. > > They all say the same garbage! "I'm jg", etc. This whole "I am" crap people do now in LoL is proof that they think once they crown themselves some position without asking everyone, they can ignore you all they want when you need help. Is that fair? > > Damn it, if I need help at bottom lane I don't give a damn if you're a Middle, an ADC (ADC is not a place, it's a thing, so why is it grouped with Middle and Top?), you get your damn hinie to the Top to help me out. > > The key from the Warcraft 3 era, was that if your character can not survive in EVERY LANE, it's simple: your build & tactics are no good. No one person is entitled to sit in a lane the whole game like a factory part and never help their teammates. **Every player should be in EVERY LANE.** I agree with the whole Everyone should be in every lane.
Rioter Comments
: yes you stop chasing a singed and if he comes back cc him to death because he keeps running away in team fights he will have to chase someone down with his poison usually the adc so just cc him and kill him hes not tanky like garen
> [{quoted}](name=pooopyfaartsalot,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cWe0NZGf,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-02-19T10:26:40.311+0000) > > yes you stop chasing a singed and if he comes back cc him to death because he keeps running away in team fights he will have to chase someone down with his poison usually the adc so just cc him and kill him hes not tanky like garen You can stop chasing him, but then he does a 180 and repeats the slow, speed boost, flip, slow death again until your team has no choice but to stop what they're doing and try to stop Singed. Singed doesn't even need to be fed in order to become a split pushing monster. All he has to do is hit level 6 and you can no longer stop him alone, but he can kill you or make you useless. Even if you don't chase him, you are stuck in lane with him all game because you can't fight him, you can't trade with him, his health regen is sickly, and he has too much split pressure. You're left with either getting your team to go where he goes which opens the rest of the map for his team or you have to stay in lane all game not being useful to your team because the moment you leave lane, you lose turrets. He's tankier than Garen and if you say otherwise, then you haven't played against a tank Singed. Garen's armor: 36-87 Magic Resist: 32.1 – 53.4 Garen's W: Reduces incoming physical and magic damage by 60% and has 60% Tenacity icon Tenacity for the first 0.75 seconds. For the rest of the duration Garen reduces incoming physical and magic damage by 30%. Singed's armor: 37-96.5 Magic Resist: 32.1 – 53.4 Singed's ult: gaining bonus ability power, bonus armor, bonus magic resistance, bonus Movement speed icon movement speed, bonus health regeneration, and bonus mana regeneration, all for the next 25 seconds. You can look up or find out the exact number but the boost is about 30-80 plus on all and 6%-16% health regen. If you still say Garen is tankier, you are being biased and ignorant.
: > [{quoted}](name=okamiyasha95,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGqQUgEz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-03-05T01:03:36.734+0000) > > Defense wins games. On that note, why is it allowed to build full armor and end up more squishy than a champ that builds full ad? Can build nothing but AD items and tank wayyyy more damage than any champ that builds armor, aside from ADCs. Either buff armor and MR items so getting them is more beneficial than health/damage items or buff them so they can do the job they are meant to do. Building armor means nothing against champions that build armor pen and black cleaver and mr means nothing to champs that build magic pen. It is pointless at this point to buy defensive items over items that provide health. If defense wins game then why is burst meta still in meta.... You are basically Johnny Lawrencing this whole situation... A BETTER DEFENSE IS MORE OFFENSE!!!!! Mages are only countered by any champ who can deal more dmg than them without dying first!!! thats not how this game should be. Half the bruisers suck and 80% of the tanks are just hot garbage in the early game and you get assassins and mages and a select few burst adcs who have little to no weaknesses before their early mid game spike Your reasoning is super laughable. More people played and watched LCS in the TANK META because it called for 1000% more coordination than the one shot burst meta running away with 4 kills under your belt with the win in under 25 minutes. That's boring and straight up not fun to play in... There is no strategy in burst meta and there never will be.
It's not a burst meta. Burst champions are only good in low elo because players don't know how to play the early game, the mid game, or late game safe. Teaming up is less common giving burst champs easy advantages they shouldn't have. Also, in low elo, players don't like the passive "farm til late game" style of play so they pick champions that are more "flashy" earlier. On that note, the problem isn't burst champs. The problem is that there is too much damage in the game as it is. Tanks are supposed to soak a ton of damage for their team, but that's it. They shouldn't be able to take objectives or do a good amount of damage to anything, but the overall damage creep coupled with Tanks' kit makes them deal more damage than they should have ever dealt. Now, they buffed the damage on ADCs and mages making the need for MR and Tank items even more necessary. Mages aren't countered by champions that deal more damage than them. THEY DEAL THE MOST DAMAGE. You can pick any AP champ as support and they can still end up doing more dmg than the ADC if they built full AP. Mages are countered by champions that can get in close to them and take advantage of the fact that they're squishy. At least they should be squishy, but when you have items out like Zhonya's that just says F all damage or kill attempts, Banshee's Veil that says F your CC and AP, and various other AP items that grant 200+ health like they're some tanks, then their counter becomes less and less of a counter. ADCs get supports that keep them alive and their items and Keystones deal an extreme amount of DPS while giving them the utmost mobility making a competent ADC uncatchable unless you have a champ that can straight dive them in an instant. Take Poppy for example; If you get a competent Poppy player who farms it out and builds nothing but tank, she can virtually one v one anybody and win without taking a lot of damage. Sejuani is another example. There's also Sion. Not to mention Ornn. The list goes on. I say this not to show how great tanks are but to point out the fact that they are dealing too much damage. But for the amount of damage they have to soak at all stages of the game, they are very squishy. They recently buffed ADCs. Mages have items that can melt tanks in one combo.
PH45 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=okamiyasha95,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XTZrU955,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-07T07:56:08.950+0000) > > My connection works just fine on a regular basis. It's consistent and it stays at around 50-70 ping. It just so happens that hundreds and thousands of others use the same network and it just so happens to kick me out of the internet here and there. > > Why should rage quitters get priority over people who have honest accidents? What about the people who leave games because of something unexpected like a house fire, their family drops by unexpected, their job calls in unexpected needing them do something? > > You're reasoning is one-sided and close-minded. You're basically saying that unless you have the money and means to upkeep and maintain flawless internet connection, don't play. What about the average person who doesn't have the opportunity to prioritize internet connection over everything else? > > You're also arguing that people would rage quit more. I'm not going to say that's entirely untrue, but people will leave regardless. Ban or no ban. Keeping the ban will not make people do it less and removing an AFK ban will not make people do it more and if it does, then it would only increase by a little and I mean very little. People still want LP. I don't see a reason to ban people for leaving norms AT ALL. There's nothing to gain or lose from winning or losing to be honest. Even if rage quitters would benefit slightly, how does Leaverbuster really help this game out in the end? The AFKer is already losing LP. People will just feed or become more toxic because they can't leave. Because they can't leave the game, their gameplay experience goes down and they will drag everyone else down with it if not leave the entire game altogether. It's not even like you automatically lose a game 4 v 5. > My connection works just fine on a regular basis. It's consistent and it stays at around 50-70 ping. It just so happens that hundreds and thousands of others use the same network and it just so happens to kick me out of the internet here and there. Leaving once/twice every few months doesn't actually activate Leaverbuster, it takes into account that people might have to leave/have stuff like this happen to them irregularly. > Why should rage quitters get priority over people who have honest accidents? What about the people who leave games because of something unexpected like a house fire, their family drops by unexpected, their job calls in unexpected needing them do something? Same answer as last sentence I typed. > You're reasoning is one-sided and close-minded. You're basically saying that unless you have the money and means to upkeep and maintain flawless internet connection, don't play. What about the average person who doesn't have the opportunity to prioritize internet connection over everything else? It's the issue that this is a 5v5 game, if people disconnect, the team with fewer players is obviously at a disadvantage, and does anyone want that kind of thing happen on their team? No they don't. > I don't see a reason to ban people for leaving norms AT ALL. There's nothing to gain or lose from winning or losing to be honest. It would bring game quality down tremendously. Having a bad game and not enjoying your time on top lane while everyone else is doing okey? Leave the game and just leave your team to lose the game. > how does Leaverbuster really help this game out in the end? The AFKer is already losing LP It shows to the ragequitters that leaving your team to lose is not okey. > People will just feed or become more toxic because they can't leave. Because they can't leave the game, their gameplay experience goes down and they will drag everyone else down with it if not leave the entire game altogether. It's not even like you automatically lose a game 4 v 5. If they int and are toxic, they get banned. Both ragequitting and feeding/being toxic are negative behaviors which have no place in League.
> [{quoted}](name=PH45,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XTZrU955,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-07T09:35:09.628+0000) > If you bothered to look at my match history, you’d see that I don’t AFK often if at all, even if you take into account the time in between. This is simply a case of this player AFK’d or had AFK-like behavior this many times. Not this player AFKs constantly. To be honest, this is a 5 v 5 game, but at the end of the day, it’s Solo Q. Even If all the players on my team except me decide to AFK in a ranked match, I wouldn’t care. It would suck, yes, but they are random strangers. You can’t always get what you want and you sure as hell don’t have a right to force other players to play a game they no longer want to play. You can’t always get the perfect gameplay you want. I’ll take the LP loss and win the next game. As I’ve stated before, EVERYBODY WANTS LP. Therefore, instead of AFKing, they would try to win it and play from behind. The quality of the gameplay os already going down. I’s rather a player AFK from top lane than to sit in top lane and feed. You’re team doesn’t always lose a 4 v 5. I’ve been in plenty of games where the team starts out with 4 and wins the 4v5. People who are toxic or feed do not get banned on the same level or as much as people who AFK. It’s much easier to ban someone for AFKing than it is to ban someone for being toxic or feeding. Ragequitters leaving is only a portion of the population of AFKers. Again, you’re being one-sided. In fact, you’re only arguing extremes. I’ll take extra LP loss, but I do not condone nor think it is healthy or smart, at all, to take time that someone barely has away over leaving a game. It’s a game. If players are so passionate about it and if it bothers them soo much, then they should find 4 other players to team up with, create a 5 man squad, and play that way.
PH45 (EUNE)
: So basically ragequitters should just walk free? You should yourself always make sure your connection etc works fine before you que up. Leaverbuster should absolutely remain.
> [{quoted}](name=PH45,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XTZrU955,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-06T08:50:22.364+0000) > > So basically ragequitters should just walk free? You should yourself always make sure your connection etc works fine before you que up. Leaverbuster should absolutely remain. My connection works just fine on a regular basis. It's consistent and it stays at around 50-70 ping. It just so happens that hundreds and thousands of others use the same network and it just so happens to kick me out of the internet here and there. Why should rage quitters get priority over people who have honest accidents? What about the people who leave games because of something unexpected like a house fire, their family drops by unexpected, their job calls in unexpected needing them do something? You're reasoning is one-sided and close-minded. You're basically saying that unless you have the money and means to upkeep and maintain flawless internet connection, don't play. What about the average person who doesn't have the opportunity to prioritize internet connection over everything else? You're also arguing that people would rage quit more. I'm not going to say that's entirely untrue, but people will leave regardless. Ban or no ban. Keeping the ban will not make people do it less and removing an AFK ban will not make people do it more and if it does, then it would only increase by a little and I mean very little. People still want LP. I don't see a reason to ban people for leaving norms AT ALL. There's nothing to gain or lose from winning or losing to be honest. Even if rage quitters would benefit slightly, how does Leaverbuster really help this game out in the end? The AFKer is already losing LP. People will just feed or become more toxic because they can't leave. Because they can't leave the game, their gameplay experience goes down and they will drag everyone else down with it if not leave the entire game altogether. It's not even like you automatically lose a game 4 v 5.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=okamiyasha95,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sJAsFHfr,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-01-27T08:29:12.150+0000) > > Either way, the game is ruined. They ruin my games doesn't mean I have to deal with it or suck it up just because we're on the same team. Me getting banned has everything to do with other people's punishments. The penalizing system is not just and it is quite impartial in how it works. Yes its clearly everyone elses fault for how you choose to act. Other people are controlling your mind and body and forcing you to do things. Stop trying to make your self a victim and just take responsibility for your actions. Where they in the wrong. sure. Should they be punished. sure. Where you in the wrong. sure. should you be punished. sure. Did anyone FORCE you to do what you did. NO you CHOOSE to do it. "They ruin my games doesnt mean I have to deal with it or suck it" In you own words you choose not to deal with it by afking. which you knew was wrong. Rather then muting them and reporting after which you knew was right. next time MUTE them. Report them after and move on with your life. Take some responsibility for your own actions rather then trying to deflect onto other people. 2 wrongs dont make a right.
I'm not excusing my AFK. Nowhere in my statement above did I say or imply that what I did was right. Should I be punished? Absolutely not. I was justified. At the same time, this post is not about me getting banned for AFKing. Rather it is for the fact that I'M THE ONLY ONE getting punished in this situation and that AFK is the only thing that gets a ban on a consistent and regular basis. You can feed all day live and not get banned as much as you AFK. You can be toxic and not get banned as much as you AFK. I did not choose not to deal with it by AFKing. You're absolutely right and I have a right to without being punished. That does not justify why you believe my actions were wrong or how I'm being unaccountable and self-centered. A mute and report later take to this situation does not help. AT ALL. All it does is prolongs the inevitable and even if it band-aids that one incident, that doesn't stop the next game from having the same issues. We're not talking about jokes and trolling for shits and giggles. We're talking straight, pure toxicity that has no purpose other than to make a bad situation worse for EVERYBODY and drag the victim and perpetrator down. I can mute them. Yes, but why should I have to every game?
: So you AFK and ruined other peoples games cuz you where to lazy to MUTE them? sounds like you got what you deserved. You getting banned has nothing to do with other players punishment. If you want them to get banned for being toxic and flaming then mute them. make it to the end of the game and report them. 2 wrongs dont make a right.
Either way, the game is ruined. They ruin my games doesn't mean I have to deal with it or suck it up just because we're on the same team. Me getting banned has everything to do with other people's punishments. The penalizing system is not just and it is quite impartial in how it works.
wolf jade (EUNE)
: "Mute"
I just said muting wasn't the point. I know how to mute but that doesn't stop pre-game lobby chatter. I'm more upset at the fact that I get banned for AFK and there is no punishment to the players that pushed me to AFK.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: They are balanced though. Theres a reason that you dont see enchanter supports like lulu, janna, and karma; because they are terrible and cant reliably deal with the current meta. Which is an issue since this is the kind of meta they should be able to deal with; bruisers and assassins are common, all in supports like alistar, pyke, and thresh are meta, and yet none of the enchanter supports are stand out individuals. Shields are garbage.
That's because of the meta. Everything is geared and centered around damage rather than sustainability/utility. Which is one of the reasons we aren't seeing much of Susan lately. It's more about early game leads than surviving til the late game, but any champ that gives their teammates sustainability is overpowered right now. I won a game 4 v 5 where my ADC fed and then AFK'd cuz of bad connection. We ended up winning team fights easy even though bot lane was able to get a huge cs advantage because no matter how much damage they dealt, I mitigated it. In the same token, if things were flipped, I would have lost too because damage mitigating champions are a bit more powerful than what they should be. It's not like they have only shields in their kit and nothing else. If that was the case, then I wouldn't be as angry at how essentially powerful they are. But I do agree with you. Other things are worth nerfing than shields ATM. But I guarantee you, if and when they nerf damage like how everybody is telling riot to, shielders and enchanters are going to sky rocket up the charts. Healing supports have taken the shielding champs like Nami's, Sona's, and Soraka's place because with the high damage steroids, they are able to increase their poke damage. Thus, having great early, mid, and late games. Alistar is just kind of broken with his ult. Thresh is the meta in high elo. In low elo, he's garbage and not as viable as people think. Thresh relies too heavily on his teammates being able to use his carry potential to their advantage.
: What's the counter to Ranged stat check then?
As in? I'm just not understanding the question. Could you explain for me?
ShadWooo (EUNE)
: Yes there is no counter but shields were nerfed so hard most enćhanters with them are not even viable...
Depends on what you mean by viable. If you mean popular in pro play, yeah. But in no way shape or form are shields weak and not viable. They just aren't as overpowered as they used to be and shielding champions were only as OP as they were because they had great poke damage on top of their shields, but their shields' power didn't really get touched.
: Irelia? Aatrox? the fact most only last 2 seconds and have 6+ second CDs? The fact that most heal and shield enhancing passives were butchered? Are you really sitting here complaining about shields when they are the weakest they've ever been?
Okay. So, I see it says that Aatrox's Deathbringer Stance and Irelia's Ionian Fervor deters shields. I read the description and I guess if you want to play tit for tat, my post is wrong about nothing countering shields, but are those champions solely meant for countering shields? How often do those champions lane against opponents with shields? It's not like those champions are support champions. What about them is an item that can be bought to fit to any champion that buys it? According to most, bruisers are the weakest they've ever been. That's not stopping people from complaining about them. The only reason they're the weakest they've ever been is because Ardent Censor and Aery got nerfed and Janna got nerfed. Let's be clear; Shields were overpowered before, but just because they toned down their effectiveness to make them more balanced, doesn't mean they are balanced. You've just been used to them being the best for so long. By no means are shields weak.
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okamiyasha95

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