: ... it wasn't an exaggeration. Senna outscales many of the ADCs without items, let alone with... and solo lane 56% winrate Senna? Just forget it. Unless she's fixed, she's maintaining a 60% banrate.
She's one of the most broken release champs since Xin Jao. Sure, some champs have been broken upon release in the past. Some did too much damage. Some healed too much. Some were too hard to kill. Senna has all of that, just like Xin did (just to a lesser extent).
: Bot lane in general has turned into a fiesta. Senna is not an isolated occurance, nor can she be fixed for good until underlying issues are fixed. As someone who is spamming support with Shaco and Swain "support" I have drawn 3 conclusions about botlane. 1. Support is not defined by healing, CC, damage or utility anymore. Any champ that scales decently well into lategame with low income can support if they have enough power crammed into their kit. 2. Enchanters are useless even in matchups they should be winning due to poor itemization and lack of damage(obligatory grain of salt here, they dont lack the damage, everyone else has too much damage). 2-3 years ago, I would never even think of diving Lulu or Janna while they are at 100% HP. With damage levels as they are right now, it is quite easy since even if I lack a bit of damage to kill them, they cant kill me. 3. Ganks and Dragon fights tend to decide the future outcome of the game. Teams need to be bot-centric to win the game, because if you dont gank bot you lose drakes and the game soon after. All 3 of these problems need to be adressed before going for the Senna, because right now, we are 1 good cheap mage item away from mages replacing adcs entirely.
> [{quoted}](name=CØulrophobia,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JIAt2ebi,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-11-30T04:44:09.314+0000) > > Bot lane in general has turned into a fiesta. Senna is not an isolated occurance, nor can she be fixed for good until underlying issues are fixed. > > As someone who is spamming support with Shaco and Swain "support" I have drawn 3 conclusions about botlane. > > 1. Support is not defined by healing, CC, damage or utility anymore. Any champ that scales decently well into lategame with low income can support if they have enough power crammed into their kit. > > 2. Enchanters are useless even in matchups they should be winning due to poor itemization and lack of damage(obligatory grain of salt here, they dont lack the damage, everyone else has too much damage). 2-3 years ago, I would never even think of diving Lulu or Janna while they are at 100% HP. With damage levels as they are right now, it is quite easy since even if I lack a bit of damage to kill them, they cant kill me. > > 3. Ganks and Dragon fights tend to decide the future outcome of the game. Teams need to be bot-centric to win the game, because if you dont gank bot you lose drakes and the game soon after. > > All 3 of these problems need to be adressed before going for the Senna, because right now, we are 1 good cheap mage item away from mages replacing adcs entirely. You had me until that last line. Senna is clearly severely overpowered regardless of the state of the rest of the game.
tyralie (EUW)
: senna need change/buff
Rofl she's the most OP champ in years and she needs buffs? LOL
: Welcome to the best reason not to have stuff like Klepto in the game. Ez became trash tier overnight, because he was balanced against a keystone he could abuse.
I argued from its inception that Klepto was a horrible idea, but everyone said Ezreal was the problem, and not the rune. . .
Anu3isII (EUNE)
: But he had multiple patches to balance him around this rune. They could easily have deleted the rune and balance him atound Aery or other potentially better runes before the whole mess. Sometimes I don't get the logic behind Rito's logic.
People were crying about Ez when that keystone first came out. I argued over and over that they needed to scrap it and balance Ez around something else. Instead they doubled down. I've always HATED kleptomancy.
: Is it better to be a Jungler or an ADC?
jungler for sure. As adc you don't actually have much agency over the first 10 minutes of the game.
: Dear Botlane: There is a REASON I didn't ask for help doing dragon.
> [{quoted}](name=Cryonix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gOvK2zVI,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-02T22:08:33.692+0000) > > But you showed up anyway, ignoring my danger ping, walked right over scuttle and told the entire, stronger enemy team that if they collapse on us they can get a free triple and a dragon. > > That's why when you come to help after I ping you off, I immediately stop doing drag and jump over the wall, leaving you to your fate. What's also annoying is when bot lane farms instead of fighting for fire drake. Le sigh.
: But then he won't need the Mana from Manamune, and then literally no one would buy it.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d0o7nNgO,comment-id=001300010000,timestamp=2018-03-14T22:17:03.387+0000) > > But then he won't need the Mana from Manamune, and then literally no one would buy it. ding ding ding
: To see if Toplane really has no agency over the game, I'll be playing supports in the top lane
> [{quoted}](name=PopcornBunni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eoAM3qze,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-02-25T21:35:47.822+0000) > > Simply holding off the opponent from my tower to the best of my ability and waiting until mid game to group with my team and be a healbot for my adc. > > First testing will be with {{champion:16}} with her global ult. > > Wish me luck. I. . . have actually had a few toplane Sorakas in my games. It has not gone well.
Sasogwa (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rn6dNHjl,comment-id=000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-21T21:59:29.806+0000) > > ~~No, that's where you go "I'm not your buddy pal~~ ~~But i'm not your pal, friend~~
> [{quoted}](name=Sasogwa,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rn6dNHjl,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-21T22:01:01.907+0000) > > ~~But i'm not your pal, friend~~ ~~But he's not your friend, guy~~
Elohaven (NA)
: We nerfed Vayne for her 33% pickrate and 53% winrate
: You will liekly get alot of hate for this but i for one are in agreement with you. It always bothers me when supports do well in a solo lane they get nerfed but a mage with one stun is allowed to pester the botlane
> [{quoted}](name=Pink Leg Warmers,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3ZE9R8kx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-17T16:58:16.193+0000) > > You will liekly get alot of hate for this but i for one are in agreement with you. > > It always bothers me when supports do well in a solo lane they get nerfed but a mage with one stun is allowed to pester the botlane Brand does tons of AoE damage. Damage stats over the course of the game can be extremely misleading. I bet most Ezreals on losing ends of their games do either the most or nearly the most damage on their team. Poke , DoTs, and AoE don't generally win games right now (unless you're Zoe where your poke is also a 100-0 burst lulz)
: > [{quoted}](name=Miku Append,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zgEUARGp,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-02-18T06:09:53.845+0000) > > To be fair, Fiddle's ult isn't really as good as you're making it out to be. It's just an extra flash with a bit of damage. 625-1625 damage over 5s with a scaling of 2.25 AP over the whole thing is more than "a bit" of damage. 1.5 is a lot of time in League though and that delay means the damage is easy to avoid, especially when Zhonya is a common delivery method that prevents chasing. Honestly if Fiddlesticks didn't have his R his kit wouldn't have good damage, he's pretty loaded onto his R. Drain is good but easy to break, Crow bounce is good but often will only hit a target once and its maximum damage at 3 bounces on one person is 435 + 1.35 AP scaling. He just isn't going to have kill threat unless R is delivered.
> [{quoted}](name=TwitchInMyPants,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zgEUARGp,comment-id=000f0001,timestamp=2018-02-18T09:18:20.144+0000) > > 625-1625 damage over 5s with a scaling of 2.25 AP over the whole thing is more than "a bit" of damage. 1.5 is a lot of time in League though and that delay means the damage is easy to avoid, especially when Zhonya is a common delivery method that prevents chasing. Honestly if Fiddlesticks didn't have his R his kit wouldn't have good damage, he's pretty loaded onto his R. Drain is good but easy to break, Crow bounce is good but often will only hit a target once and its maximum damage at 3 bounces on one person is 435 + 1.35 AP scaling. He just isn't going to have kill threat unless R is delivered. Actually, over 5 seconds, that's really not much damage. Compare that to the damage Tristana can do in 5 seconds at level 13.
: No. People mostly complained Ezreal's on-hit mechanic is broken. People are fed up of Ezreal jumping out of nowhere into OP measures whenever any strong on-hit is introduced. If it happened once or twice maybe, but it's so expectable it justifies thinking of Ezreal's on-hit as broken mechanic. Then there was still a lot of people pointing out even champs like GP went strong with it and that Klepto is major problem, too.
> [{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XpPnJ65l,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-02-08T17:35:46.515+0000) > > No. People mostly complained Ezreal's on-hit mechanic is broken. People are fed up of Ezreal jumping out of nowhere into OP measures whenever any strong on-hit is introduced. If it happened once or twice maybe, but it's so expectable it justifies thinking of Ezreal's on-hit as broken mechanic. Then there was still a lot of people pointing out even champs like GP went strong with it and that Klepto is major problem, too. Meh, if I introduce an item to the game that gives gold whenever an auto attack applies a dot, then I shouldn't be shocked when Teemo becomes OP. Does that mean nerf Teemo? Or get rid of the thing you just added that "broke" him? It's really stupid that Rito can't balance their shit.
: Pretty sure ezreal and nasus are pretty balanced right now
> [{quoted}](name=ShaolinToilet,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XpPnJ65l,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-08T10:39:31.005+0000) > > Pretty sure ezreal and nasus are pretty balanced right now Uh, just barely, and only with Klepto. That's a big problem and goes against what they're trying to accomplish with the new runes. (just referring to Ezreal here)
Anatera (NA)
: I thought this was a popular opinion.
> [{quoted}](name=Anatera,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XpPnJ65l,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-08T10:36:07.438+0000) > > I thought this was a popular opinion. When the runes first came out in preseason, the popular opinion was that Ezreal is broken (you know that champ that hasn't been viable for a year) and Klepto was absolutely fine and dandy. I disagreed.
: Damnit Morde you're why we can't have nice things:P . Definitely aware, and we're looking into what we can/will change before ship. Almost certainly going to be a change to the Liandries as opposed to a change to Morde, but haven't decided the plan yet.
> [{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zkkPX6Ne,comment-id=001d,timestamp=2018-02-07T23:46:07.842+0000) > > Damnit Morde you're why we can't have nice things:P . Definitely aware, and we're looking into what we can/will change before ship. Almost certainly going to be a change to the Liandries as opposed to a change to Morde, but haven't decided the plan yet. Too bad you didn't take this approach with Ezreal and Kleptomancy :/ Any ETA extra nerfs for Klepto so you can give Ez some scaling back? You know, so he isn't absolutely required to take Klepto to get above 45% winrate?
Nyloaf (NA)
: Honestly, people complain so much about zoe because she can one-shot the adc or the midlaner, but few people realize that her q is her only real way to land any damage. Her e does small amounts, and SOMETIMES she gets damaging summoners or items with her w, but other than that, q is her only way to do damage. When you get knocked down to 2/3 of your hp in one q, thats the equivalent of all the poke of a normal champion while laning coming at you within a second. Zoe is a high risk, high reward champion- if she misses her q, there goes all her poke/damage, and she can get smashed. If she hits you, well, there's the reward. besides, theres junglers like kha'zix or assassins like zed that can one-shot the midlaner or adc and few people care to complain about them. {{sticker:sg-janna}}
> [{quoted}](name=Nyloaf,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=m5RiXL17,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-02-07T17:50:56.873+0000) > > Honestly, people complain so much about zoe because she can one-shot the adc or the midlaner, but few people realize that her q is her only real way to land any damage. Her e does small amounts, and SOMETIMES she gets damaging summoners or items with her w, but other than that, q is her only way to do damage. When you get knocked down to 2/3 of your hp in one q, thats the equivalent of all the poke of a normal champion while laning coming at you within a second. Zoe is a high risk, high reward champion- if she misses her q, there goes all her poke/damage, and she can get smashed. If she hits you, well, there's the reward. > > > besides, theres junglers like kha'zix or assassins like zed that can one-shot the midlaner or adc and few people care to complain about them. > {{sticker:sg-janna}} I think you're GREATLY overestimating the "risk" part of Zoe's risk vs reward.
morris1 (EUNE)
: No, that would be too logical. Worst case scenario, they nerf Mordekaiser first, then nerf Liandry's, then nerf Mordekaiser again for good measure.
> [{quoted}](name=morris1,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nEvMfv0G,comment-id=001000000000,timestamp=2018-02-07T16:28:35.338+0000) > > No, that would be too logical. > > Worst case scenario, they nerf Mordekaiser first, then nerf Liandry's, then nerf Mordekaiser again for good measure. So, the Ezreal/Klepto treatment!
: > [{quoted}](name=Daddy Issues,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EITIYwMX,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-07T01:04:04.812+0000) > > So basically, you want these champs nerfed **_further_**? when their kits are entirely reliant on a single rune......
> [{quoted}](name=The Öutcast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EITIYwMX,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-02-07T01:05:56.565+0000) > > when their kits are entirely reliant on a single rune...... Well, Ezreal wasn't until they nerfed him to hell. And then nerfed the rune, too. . .
: > [{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nEvMfv0G,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-02-06T23:43:05.015+0000) > > Then again, Mordekaiser needs a VGU badly and if these changes do end up breaking him that might accelerate the process. HAHAHAHA YOU THOUGHT! Patch 8.4 {{champion:82}} R - Children of the Grave - Damage lowered from ~~25% / 30% / 35%~~ => 25% at all levels - Scaling lowered from ~~4% per 100 AP~~ => 3% per 100 AP
> [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleeper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nEvMfv0G,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2018-02-07T04:07:27.058+0000) > > HAHAHAHA YOU THOUGHT! > > Patch 8.4 > > {{champion:82}} > > R - Children of the Grave > > - Damage lowered from ~~25% / 30% / 35%~~ => 25% at all levels > - Scaling lowered from ~~4% per 100 AP~~ => 3% per 100 AP Patch 8.5 Liandry's Torment Burn damage changed to Current HP (instead of Maximum HP) . . . --no changes to Mordekeiser--
: > [{quoted}](name=YuGiHo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nEvMfv0G,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-02-07T01:37:16.414+0000) > > Imagine seeing mord nerfs because of this? its more likely that the item will get nefred because malz/cass/brand/syndra/rumble exist is likely to break the item as well but who knows... They'll probably nerf both in the following order: -Nerf Mordekaiser because he abuses new items; -Nerf new items because they're OP; -Leave Mordekaiser even worse than he's now with no compensation buffs.
> [{quoted}](name=Phazanor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nEvMfv0G,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-02-07T01:45:29.668+0000) > > They'll probably nerf both in the following order: > -Nerf Mordekaiser because he abuses new items; > -Nerf new items because they're OP; > -Leave Mordekaiser even worse than he's now with no compensation buffs. You left out the most important part that comes first: Forums will cry out "OMG Morde OP he breaks items; the problem is the champ, not the items (that just got reworked with full knowledge by devs of the consequences)!!!!!!!" Yes I'm a bit bitter about Ezreal getting gutted--_**because of Klepto**_--to _**only work with Klepto**_, which is fucking cancer and should be replaced.
Meep Man (NA)
: From Someone's Who's Seen a Thing or Two: A 52% Win Rate Is Not Insane
> [{quoted}](name=Wuq,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jPirs93K,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-02-05T03:14:32.369+0000) > > A 52% Win Rate is not something that demands a nerf, especially an immediate one. 52% Win Rate is a sign of a champion being meta and likely just going to rotate out of being FotM after a patch or two of normal changes to the game as a whole. Once you start hitting 53% Win Rate, that's when you need to start paying attention to someone. 54%+ is when we need to start talking immediate nerfs. > I say this because I see a lot of threads popping up about a champion having a 52% Win Rate and thus deserving a nerf. This is not true. That's like saying someone who is sitting at 48% Win Rate needs to immediately get a buff. No, that's not true either. It's just the flavor of the month coming in and going out. You're obviously wrong. Any champion above 48% winrate and 5% playrate is BROKEN OP because IF THEYRE PLAYED THAT MUCH THEN SCRUBS PLAY THEM AND OBV SHOULD BE FEEDING EVERY GAME AND LOWERING WINRATE TO 30% HUR DUR
PreShot (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Solicitude,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6KVefZ4N,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-24T12:44:50.243+0000) > > Im sure RIOT didnt know you main Ezreal. If they knew it they would buff him instead, since he is your main. Im sure now they know it they will reverse the nerfs. So please forgive them... Not saying that but he was at a 51% win rate while vayne kog and trist are dominating the win rates....comprehension op.
> [{quoted}](name=EzIsReel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6KVefZ4N,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-01-24T13:12:51.095+0000) > > Not saying that but he was at a 51% win rate while vayne kog and trist are dominating the win rates....comprehension op. It is weird that they nerfed Klepto AND Ez. This will not end well for my former main who has been garbage for over a year :(
: Kleptomancy needed a serious change, it was way too strong and way too easy to use. It was single handedly responsible for a 6% increase in Nasus's win rate, not to mention what it did to GP and Ezreal. Having something that out of line makes it impossible to balance a champion properly. You either nerf the champion, which then forces them to only ever use the broken thing that caused the nerfs, or you nerf the broken thing. I'm just glad Riot made the right decision here.
> [{quoted}](name=redniwediS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sH4mjRIX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-24T09:42:46.315+0000) > > Kleptomancy needed a serious change, it was way too strong and way too easy to use. It was single handedly responsible for a 6% increase in Nasus's win rate, not to mention what it did to GP and Ezreal. > > Having something that out of line makes it impossible to balance a champion properly. You either nerf the champion, which then forces them to only ever use the broken thing that caused the nerfs, or you nerf the broken thing. I'm just glad Riot made the right decision here. Unfortunately Ezreal didn't make it out alive. His winrates are tanking hard, and they were never even competitive with any rune but Klepto.
: I don't know if you're saying he should not have been re-worked to be a ADC or if you should keep building him AP. Don't build him AP cuz his laning is horrendous if you do that. Keeping him as an ADC makes sense in the current state of the game because he is currently the only pure poke bottom laner. Varus can be, but it's pretty weak right now. Honestly I would prefer to see another bot lane poke carry put in the game. Either a new champ or bring back rocket spam Corki in the bottom. It's frustrating if you want to run ranged poke as an ADC and the only one who is still good at it is banned half the time. Long live poke comps! Bring back Corki + Ezreal meta, or Varus mid with poke bottom!
> [{quoted}](name=Whisper87,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9UpRjnXr,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-23T21:53:32.466+0000) > > I don't know if you're saying he should not have been re-worked to be a ADC or if you should keep building him AP. > > Don't build him AP cuz his laning is horrendous if you do that. > > Keeping him as an ADC makes sense in the current state of the game because he is currently the only pure poke bottom laner. Varus can be, but it's pretty weak right now. Honestly I would prefer to see another bot lane poke carry put in the game. Either a new champ or bring back rocket spam Corki in the bottom. It's frustrating if you want to run ranged poke as an ADC and the only one who is still good at it is banned half the time. > > Long live poke comps! Bring back Corki + Ezreal meta, or Varus mid with poke bottom! He was technically never "reworked" to be an ADC. They just nerfed his W heal and people figured out waveclear matters, so he can't mid.
: Dear Riot, Stop Over Nerfing Champs :)
> [{quoted}](name=Dog of Pavlov,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vQUHAdOf,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-01-23T21:16:21.261+0000) > > After so many patches incorporating double/triple/quadruple/even sometimes quintuple nerfs (which seem to be happening more and more frequently), I find it shocking that Riot hasn't learned by now how much that disrupts the meta. I'm not saying never nerf champs more than once or twice, but stop OVERNERFING and putting champions into abysmal positions. I also don't play these champions often, so I'm not being biased: > > 1. Sona: Clearly an overperformer, deserved nerfs, but then got hit multiple times, Riot still wanted to nerf her after she was barely 50/51% win rate and then now they realize how hard they nerfed her before. > 2. Ezreal: Clearly an overperformer, like Sona, and deserved some nerfs. However, his win rate prior to the new patch coming out was around 51% yet he is receiving a nerf to his base damage (JUSTIFIED BY KLEPTO'S STRENGTHS) and they are nerfing Klepto in the same patch. Why not wait for Klepto nerfs to occur and then look at the state he is in? This just means we are entering another Twitch/Kog/Xayah meta since those champions (especially Kog and Twitch) already have higher win rates. > 3. Caitlyn last season: Dominated nearly the entire season (just like Twitch but of course Twitch doesn't get nerfed ever??) got huge nerfs and had a < 50% win rate BUT THEN GOT NERFED AGAIN and then was basically at a ~45-47% win rate, if not even lower than that. Arguably the same thing happened to Lucian... so the question remains: why? Did you not learn your lesson? Clearly you should have learned something if you realize multiple patches later that a champion was gutted too much. > > SO PLEASE RIOT, STOP OVERNERFING CHAMPIONS :) I don't play these champions at all/extremely infrequently, and I can understand how mind-boggling some of these changes are! If a champion is at 55% win rate, nerf them, but don't nerf them that they end up going to 45-47% win rate, and then you have to buff them a couple months later after realizing. (Not meant to sound angry, just frustrated) IDK why you got downvoted. Especially regarding Ezreal. He's sitting right at a hair over 50%, and his winrates WITHOUT klepto are 45% and below. It's actually hilarious that they mention that Klepto is letting Ezreal reach his item spikes quickly, so they nerf his early base damage, while at the same time nerfing the early gold Klepto provides. I'd be fine with that if they gave back the scaling nerf they already put in, since he's already outclassed lategame EVEN WITH his "too high" (50% is too high?????) winrate.
: You figured Vayne wouldn’t thrive in a meta where games ended so quickly
> [{quoted}](name=Bronze II Yasuo ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jxgrkUel,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-01-08T14:45:01.594+0000) > > Cause she’s a scaling champion right? :thinking: Crit scaling items are too cheap and have been for a while.
Thilmer (EUW)
: They will probably nerf a keystone, and then Ezreal will start abusing another keystone, because he is perfectly viable with many of them.
Rofl actually he’s like 45% winrate with anything else. It’s like the whole LoL community has gone full retard or something.
: If what riot said in their ask riot is true
they probably will drop it. The response has been very negative. It's too bad they haven't just tried with standard 10 bans :/
: How to Fix ezreal
This is a legit terrible idea. If his q misses, his next auto doesn't apply botrk, wits end, guinsoos, recurve, etc etc? How does that even make any sense? If ezreal is missing that many mystic shots he isn't going to win anyway. Why is the lol community having such a difficult time admitting Kleptomancy is a terrible keystone idea that will be forever broken or useless? Just look at Ez stats with any keystone besides Klepto, and you'll see that without it he's the same trash tier as last season. Actually, he's even worse than before. We're talking 45% winrates.
: Nope. The loss of armor broke him. Klepto was just icing on the cake.
> [{quoted}](name=LesVitesses,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lXw43FKZ,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2017-12-25T02:06:09.881+0000) > > Nope. The loss of armor broke him. Klepto was just icing on the cake. You are 100% wrong. Check winrates of any ez that doesn't use Klepto. I'm glad riot isn't listening to the idiot masses on this one, as the stats are readily available for anyone to check on several websites. The solution is crazy simple and the technology already exists in the game to fix it. Just make Klepto on-attack (like runaans) instead of on-hit. Or just delete Klepto because it's a horrible idea to begin with.
: Am I just bad with Udyr or what ?
Udyr is tricky. Bad players who lose to him complain that he is just a stat check, yet when most people play him they fail spectacularly. Playing udyr requires strong map awareness. For builds, I recommend items with CDR, movespeed, and tankiness. Movespeed is probably the most important, because he has no dash or wall hopping abilities. You need to be able to juke skillshots as well. You also shouldn't limit yourself to one build. You need to adapt to your team and the enemy team. Sometimes you need a splitpush build. Sometimes you need damage to function as kind of an assassin. Sometimes you just need to tank and peel for your hyper carry ADC. I'd tell you to watch Trick2G but that usually ends up in disaster for inexperienced Udyr players. I managed 65% winrate last season with about 100 games. Because of the state of the game (ADCs soooo strong), that meant playing almost exclusively as a peeling tank and doing very little damage. I would even get mocked during wins for doing least amount of damage in most of those games. We won because I body blocked skillshots and stunned any divers or assassins. Even the ADCs I was saving would say things like "we won no thanks to this Udyr". I didn't like playing that way, but that's what it took to win.
Weedbro (NA)
: I don't care if Ivern's winrate is 51%, he is still underpowered and has way too many counters.
Ugh, if Ivern is a top tier jungler, then he's pretty cancer to play against. All the stuff he does is just incredibly unfun to play against.
: Sounds like All of these champs too {{champion:122}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:429}} I wonder if there is anything in common with them? /sarcasm
> [{quoted}](name=HaIlMonitor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ugrAFHhy,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2017-12-11T00:14:19.684+0000) > > Sounds like All of these champs too > > {{champion:122}} > {{champion:412}} > {{champion:143}} > {{champion:157}} > {{champion:429}} > > > I wonder if there is anything in common with them? /sarcasm heh. ( agreed )
: E hitting only champions would be such a massive buff to ap ezreal All in in lane it would prob break him, not gonna lie only time i go all in on my laner is if i used my ult to wipe the minion wave first so my E W Q combo can land. if i didnt need to wipe the minions to land my E W then id just kill you at lvl 2 and from then on prob anytime you came to lane lol.
This is true If they want to, they could make crit Ezreal viable by giving him increased auto attack range and letting his passive stay active for a bit longer. One thing that gets overlooked a bit is the kiting you can do with trinity, and losing that really hurts if you don’t have an easy push button AS steroid. If they did this, they could then take away the on-hit effect portion of his q and then give it back some scaling as you level it (1.1 at level 1 and 1.3 at level 5) I think they want to keep Ez as a trinity force user, though.
: Oh for sure, all of our changes when looking at runes are done thinking of all champions that benefit from them. If there's some that are raising a whole class of characters we tend to look at the rune, if a champion is an outlier with the rune, we tend to look at the champion.
Can you please, please focus on the Kleptomancy interaction on Ezreal's Mystic shot instead of just flat nerfing him? Every statistic I can find points to him ONLY being OP due to this keystone interaction. If you nerf his scaling, you will just absolutely force him into using the rune until you inevitably nerf that interaction anyway, and then he's just worthless. Just make it so Mystic Shot does not proc Kleptomancy. PLEASE.
: just take off on hit effects on Q and would literally make EZ balanced.
If they are dead set on keeping the rest of his skills the way they are, then your change would totally destroy Ez. They would have to give him longer auto range or a passive that ramps up faster or stays ramped for longer.
Śhunpo (OCE)
: If they make him have to do this that makes the game inconsistent since his Q is technically an auto. Just adjust how frequently Klepto can go off.
It's an auto that doesn't crit or proc Runaan's, so I don't see why making it not proc Klept would be a big deal in the slightest. Really, the solution to the Ezreal problem this pre-season is dead simple, yet due to the outcry on the boards I think poor Ez is going to get the Eve/Urgot treatment, when it's really unnecessary.
: > [{quoted}](name=hhaavviikk,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kcn9P7Hu,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-11-30T08:46:15.291+0000) > > but how would that work? like someone said the ability itself is coded as an auto attack, if it were to no longer be coded as a auto attack that would be a huge nerf to triforce/lichbane ezreal never mind the fact riot riot actually recoded ezreal's q specifically to proc this. im sure they have no way of undoing it... {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} im not going to dig through riot posts to try to find this but there IS a red post saying this...
No, they re-coded it so that it procs spell effects (think Rylai's, Luden's, etc). This is what caused the Muramana double-proc (which was an unintended bug).
Rioter Comments
: If Zoe needs nerfed, you'll have to tell Riot she needs buffs because it seems like they end up doing the exact opposite of what the playerbase wants.
Unfortunately you’re wrong there. They’re listening to the slobbering masses and nerfing Ezreal q damage scaling while not touching the Klepto interaction. He’ll still be broken, and when they finally fix Klepto, he’ll be back to unplayable—even in the jungle, since the q buff is what allowed even that.
: 1) Remove his interaction with Klepto 2) ??? 3) Profit He is still a shit ADC and his damage is shit compared to crit users, unless you eat all the Q-s which is your fucking fault, but when you give him 28 pots before his first back he will probably fuck you due to being full HP and mana constantly no matter how bad of a trade he makes. On the other hand MF is taking half my HP at level 1 on a point and click buggy ability, THAT is something you can't play against and is oppressive as fuck...
> [{quoted}](name=DoktorKaiser,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lb4EMAKO,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-11-29T11:05:52.933+0000) > > 1) Remove his interaction with Klepto > 2) ??? > 3) Profit > > He is still a shit ADC and his damage is shit compared to crit users, unless you eat all the Q-s which is your fucking fault, but when you give him 28 pots before his first back he will probably fuck you due to being full HP and mana constantly no matter how bad of a trade he makes. On the other hand MF is taking half my HP at level 1 on a point and click buggy ability, THAT is something you can't play against and is oppressive as fuck... Checks Ezreal winrate with anything but klepto. Yep. That or nerf klepto. But I’m sure they’ll just dumpster Ez and THEN nerf klepto and he'll be back to 47% winrate. They wouldn’t want to admit that one of their keystones is a really bad idea.
Rathe6 (NA)
: I just played Tristana for the first time a little while ago. Every guide I read talked about her bad laning phase and playing safe. Then I played her and won nearly every lane I played her into. I couldn't believe how easy her lane was. Maybe I just had crap opponents.
or you had a very good support. Or the enemy support was horrible.
WolfChases (EUNE)
: I can't get out of Gold V. Help me please.
Right now you need to play an OP champ. Ditch whatever you're playing and start playing Xin Jao, J4, etc.
Thilmer (EUW)
: How long is going to last this "ultraearly meta"?
> [{quoted}](name=Thilmer,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lIg3k36M,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-11-26T15:13:11.851+0000) > > As soon as someone is 2-0, the game is over. Riot could as well introduce and option to surrender at minute 5. > > We are still traped in season 7. Boooooring... The game is out. of. control. right now.
ªTeemo (EUW)
: Zoe
can't argue with that. She will be nerfed. _Heavily._ Don't let the early winrates fool you. Straight up broken.
Liveey (NA)
: Does klepto proc on his q? Sorry I dont play ezreal however I do struggle in lane with him.
Yes it does. Klepto is BROKEN AF Seriously check the Ez winrates that DONT use Klepto. None are above 50.5% Ezreal is one of my two mains, and it pains me when he is in the dumpster (as he was for most of this season), so I just hope Rito doesn't overreact. The nerf on PBE is MAYBE decent place to start (which simply takes his Q ratio back to what it was before the buff a couple patches ago). Trouble is, I have a feeling that he'll be back in the dumpster after that again, as I'm sure they'll then ALSO nerf Klepto, leaving him once again outscaled and outlaned by other ADCs. If they're going to un-buff his mystic shot, they should give him some power elsewhere in his kit. Maybe un-nerf his ulti CD?
Dalanin (NA)
: I'll chose E. Get kited to hell and one shot by the enemy team
> [{quoted}](name=Dalanin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XsmFmGoq,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2017-11-22T02:56:07.040+0000) > > I'll chose E. Get kited to hell and one shot by the enemy team Ironic, because if you rank up E first, you're really hard to kite.
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quasistellar

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