Meddler (NA)
: I don't think we've got any room to buff Garen right now. Would certainly be interested in adding a bit more skill expression at some point. Not confident a burst of MS on the Q would so though, given it's a pretty reliable and consistent effect. Swapping to Slow immunity, instead of cleansing slows on cast, likely makes timing of Q press more forgiving while also adding noticeable power.
Hi Meddler. I'm a long time Garen player, holding 3.6 Million Champion Mastery Points, and have near 200lp Masters. I'd really like to propose some quality of life changes instead of buffs. I really agree that Garen shouldn't be buffed further, but there is a lot of QoL stuff that could be made to make playing Garen much more enjoyable. Because of the frequency in Garen's spin being five spins at rank 1, increasing to six at level 4, I really believe Garen's spin should get a rework and changed to 10 spins automatically at rank 1, nerfing the overall damage of course early and having it scale up to the same amount at level 16. The issue with Garen's spin when noticed by veteran Garen players is that it's really unreliable to cs with. I've lost so many 1 hp minions/cannons because I'm waiting for the next spin to occur, but that cs gets taken by my very own minions. It's to the point where I encourage others not to spin over cannon minions waves for fear of missing too much CS. Many people have brought up to give Garen the normal auto attack animation for Q when last hitting minions. I think that would be fantastic as well for cs'ing under tower, given that you agree with that, transparency wise. If you DO rework the Villain mechanic in the future Meddler, please, please do not deny Garen the ability to convert his ultimate into True Damage vs select targets. If you were ever to remove that, exhaust would hard counter Garen once again in teamfights. I care about a healthy future for Garen in regards to the entire playerbase, and am always available on my stream for any feedback or playtesting any future Garen changes. Just ask LeaoC to point you in the right direction. :D
Meddler (NA)
: Dark Harvest - Performs pretty well on some users, is somewhat niche in part because of how appealing Electrocute seems to be to a lot of people. Unlikely we do too much to it in the foreseeable. Lethal Tempo - Doesn't have a clear enough niche (PTA overlap in part), satisfaction/useability aren't where they should be either. Expect we'll heavily modify or replace at some point. Isn't doing active harm right now though, so don't feel we have to just straight remove it. Glacial Augment - This is one of the Keystones we're most cautious of, given how powerful added CC, even just a slow. Might put a bit more power into it at some point, really want to avoid making it too common though given what that does to game state, laning especially.
Meddler - I use Glacial Augment in some matchups as Garen and really would like this rune to stay. I absolutely agree that if this rune were to be given too much power, it could heavily be exploited, which is why I would propose to keep the numbers as is for auto attacks, and instead slightly buff the Glacial Augmentation with active items. I really believe that if the "Frozen Beam" lines were adjusted to be slightly cone like and cover a larger area towards the end of the beam, it could be more viable while also rewarding users who are using Active Items in tangent with the rune compared to those who would just take the rune for lane power.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 30
Hey Meddler. Thanks for the Garen buffs this year. If you're ever looking for more QoL work for Garen, I highly recommend the double stack mechanic for Garen's W, similiar to how it works for Nasus. (Towers, champion kills, large monsters.)
Meddler (NA)
: I need to catch up with the team about Garen this morning. We want to add some power to him, it's unlikely what was on the PBE yesterday is exactly what we go for though. In particular pushing Tenacity that high, especially when combined with other sources, makes it functionally CC immunity that lies to opponents about what it is.
Hi Meddler - I'm one of the Garen players who reached Masters this season. I really would like to suggest that if you're still looking for minor work on Garen, I'd highly recommend starting with some QoL work on his kit. Nasus can stack infinitely but when he kills a champion/large monster/turret he gets double stacks. I really feel like Garen should get a similar treatment. One big deterrent in the experience of playing Garen is having to prioritize farm so when it's great encouraged to make high-impact teleport plays early, or roam with Q, Garen has to often sacrifice a few minion waves which are much more valuable to him than the average toplaner. Granting double W stacks in a similar fashion would allow Garen players to feel better about grouping earlier. Also, I talk with a large amount of people who are trying to make Garen jungle work, however having absolutely no passive pre-level 11, really hurts him. Would it ever be considered to keep his passive on in the jungle, but reduce it to 25%-50% effectiveness? Just a thought, seeing as the balance team once made changes to allow Nasus to jungle (even though we rarely see it). This will definitely help Lane Garen as well, if he wants to possibly take Gromp or Krugs while avoiding being at a wave placed near the enemy turret without flash, etc. Also, Trinity Force as you may or may not know has been picked up by many Garen players who wish to build more offensive. Black Cleaver isn't seen too often as many Garen players wish to capitalize on personal power vs team utility. What would benefit a Garen split-push would be the ability to cancel his spin sooner so he could cycle through Spellblade proc's easier while hitting a tower. Garen's spin can be cancelled early right now, however it currently isn't worth to cancel in its current iteration because in order to cancel it early, means having to sacrifice 3-auto attacks typically lategame, thanks to base attack speed scaling and Trinity Force on top of that. Lastly - would your team ever consider splitting his W active into 2 charges? I believe you're aware that W is the ability that has struggled the most with "oomph" in the past. It's power budget is a great faction around 6 seconds lategame. Instead of making a massive tenacity window on 1 0.75 second windows, I think what could be much interesting is making Garen's W have two charges with each having a 0.75 second window with around 50% tenacity. Each charge could have 2-3 seconds total of damage reduction, but would raise the skill cap of Garen even more when maneuvering in teamfights. Make executing the Villain grant a charge possibly if your team is even daring. I don't know what the exact vision of how you and your team want to keep Garen, but I'm certain you all aware that us long time Garen mains would love to express our mastery with more skill-expression, leading to more rewarding situations. Thank you for reading, and thanks for the effort you make to connect with us. :)
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 12
Hey Meddler, I'd like to ask about Minion Dematerializer. I use it actually midlane on Garen in Diamond, using a charge on the first cannon minion wave available that way I can reach level 3 before my lane opponent and go for a roam while they still have to deal with a cannon minion. I really believe that the core strength of minion dematerializers are using four of them as opportunities for a roam (since it takes significant time early game to get rid of a cannon minion). This is a useful concept that I think a lot of players haven't quite picked up on yet. I hope whatever changes the team at Riot ultimately decides on will still allow a way for us to skew minion waves early because I think the rune choice benefits roamers so heavily. I really enjoy the dematerializers in their current iteration and would love a similiar variant that isn't gated by a cooldown like magical footwear (10 minutes). Thanks for reading!
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 10
Hi Meddler! I'd love to see Promote come back as a Summoner Spell. What are your thoughts in having two ways (Banner of Command + Promote) for more ways to setup great macro plays with slow pushes?
: I wanna see the recording lol sounds so cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ_cETm4-xM
: I do agree that these changes are a step in the right direction, but "This is exactly what Garen needs" sounds like an exaggeration, don't you think? :) The W change sure increases Garen's ceiling, but it doesn't solve most of the outstanding issues that Garen has, such as the lack of in-combat sustain, or the lack of interactivity in a lot of melee match-ups due to E being an uninterruptible AoE that you HAVE to get in range of if you want to fight Garen as a melee. And since all of that are just straight buffs without compensation, isn't it too much? Was Garen really in such a bad state? I'm a bit afraid of rebound nerfs...
The thing is though if we consider any player who knows how to operate their champion, you're never really going to get a situation where you can hit the enemy without them dishing damage back to you unless they are low and running. It's similar to a Fiora dashing into an Irelia, you're going to get retaliation in any matchup no matter what. Garen may have an aoe spin that can't be stopped once its cast, but that's just a perk of being a juggernaut where most of his competition triumphs him in mobility (Renekton, Irelia, Riven, Shen, Gnar, Fiora, Singed, Camille, J4, Gragas, Hecarim, Aatrox, Jax, Kled, Jayce, Olaf, Rumble, Yasuo, Galio.) On top of that, people who understand Garen's kit will bait him onto their minions, so Garen completely misses the isolation bonus. And to make matters worse for Garen, is that there are many champions that can outdamage Garen even standing in his spin. Irelia, Renekton, and even Shen can do it no problem. Shen has only three abilities to use in lane and **still** beats Garen in a 1v1 even with Black Cleaver. It doesn't solve all of his issues, or maybe even binary patterns that typically lower elo's will only express in frustration, but the skill ceiling is absurdly too low for Garen right now. Diamond Garen mains can't even trade evenly with 90% of his matchups. These numbers that are currently testing don't have to be exact. The 90% damage reduction window may even be brought down lower, but Garen's impact in higher elo's falls off tremendously past midgame if his team isn't performing well themselves. What I enjoy about these changes the most though is that his counterplay is still fully intact. True damage completely bypasses every single second of his W, and he still will be countered by kiting. He will have one new short window to deal with cc, but it still will mean nothing against a Tristana with her ultimate up. Sure, lifesteal is really sub-optimal on Garen, but there would be no healthy way I believe for making any item that could literally allow him to heal substantially off of his spin. This new level 11 passive makes up for it, and really will push a Garen players decision making on when to leave a fight to heal up, or stay until the bloody end.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 30
Hi Meddler, ristiuMMask here. I streamed Garen's PBE changes yesterday with my audience, and boy oh boy, I was excited about this change. **This** is exactly what Garen needs. With the first PBE shipment turning Garen's W into just more damage reduction but a shorter cooldown, I was feeling a bit empty about it. But giving this super small window of shrugging off CC with a load of tenacity, on top of a massive amount of damage reduction feels amazing. This will totally raise the skill ceiling for Garen, and playing him actively in Diamond, there is little outplay potential the Demacian soldier has for some lanes. I facetanked an Ashe ultimate yesterday on Stream, but with proper timing, I walked it off in less than a second. It felt really amazing. The passive changes I also like. There are many games where I simply don't reach level 16. Having a stronger level 11 passive is so much more impacting than having the current live rendition where I'm just passively having a health potion run out of combat. The spin buffs were the icing on the cake, small, but very appreciated. I hope that the buffs to spin will actually help us fight tanks, as Garen has been struggling with that for a while. I'm making a video right now about why these changes are good. As a Garen enthusiast, I fully support these changes and many other Garen players in our "Garen Players NA" club really look forward to these changes as well.
: Can we increase the club chat history?
Don't worry I'm on it right now.
Meddler (NA)
: Nothing currently planned for Rengar. Garen we'd like to do some more small work on (I'm personally particularly interested in trying to make his W a bit more engaging/skill expressive). Timing on that's really unknown though, beyond sometime this year (could be soon, could be post World's patch).
Hi Meddler, if you read this I really appreciate your time. I've played thousands of games in Garen and I'm still struggling to get toward high Diamond or Masters with Garen. In fact, many Garen mains haven't been able to exceed this threshold of low Diamond. Sometimes it's decision making for sure, but we feel like Garen's limitations offer seldom a decent matchup. Although his W has strength lategame, it's absolutely a nonexistant ability in laning phase. This is why if you were to spectate a Garen game in Diamond where the enemy can easily anticipate Garen's approach of attack, Garen loses a lot of trades, even when I know I time my W correctly for example after I see my silence wears off. When a juggernaut simply can't even trade with tanks that are cc oriented like Maokai, Nautlius, and sometimes Zac, you know there is an issue. Even rushing Black Cleaver feels like a losing battle since these above champions, and Shen, who can get Sunfire Cape - punish us even more thanks to the percentile magic/physical damage scaling from the recent addition of 100 health. Courage of the Collusus is a keystone yet provides greater worth than Garen's W in itself. I'm losing matchups vs a player that has played less than 20 games on Darius, simply because mathematically there is no way to come on top on trades unless Darius refrains from hitting buttons on his keyboard. The ability has to be reworked. The feeling of fulling stacking your W is nice, but I feel like the lack of skill I basically provide later on in the game (Hit W while going in) is just devoid of critical thinking. I often get 40% CDR on Garen so hitting the ability as much as possible is a no-brainer. One small idea I had was having like a rounded square barrier with four walls that lasts multiple seconds- Similar to Fiora's Vitals in Grand challenge. Each wall could soak up an amount of damage. The counterplay is enemies positioning to remove one part of the wall, and then they can attack Garen's HP directly. It would be so cool to juggle positioning with a strong shield like that while chasing the villain. This could also encourage actual trading in lane, as if you run in lane, you're backside wall in the shield will be easily broken, but if you stay you could kite to a wall in Summoner's Rift and use the second shield wall. Further counterplay exists when the enemy could flash behind you to expose your backside for a kill, or even Garen flashing himself to get in a position to use his other walls in his shield. It's similar to Fiora but since they are both Demacian champions, thematically it could work, and by scrapping the always relevant, always spammed Damage Reduction you can give all elo ranges more counterplay in handling Garen. Honestly it's your call though. But please do not just alter the stats of W and call it a day. Garen has issues trading with anyone with true damage since it basically removes the ability from Garen's keyboard. And since we'll commonly only have the active for 2 seconds, it feels just extremely, painfully weak. Sincerely, ~A Passionate and deprived Diamond Garen main.
Rengooo (OCE)
: Damn, thats a pretty legit idea there for his W, I like it aha. But.. Unfortunately Riot has already made it relatively clear (as far as Riot making things clear goes) that Garen is intended to be a beginners champ. With that sort of mentality in mind I think that puts a massive restriction on Garens capabilities of ever getting anyone beyond Diamond... Just my 5 cents :)
Thanks for your input. I really do believe an ability like this is a category of simple execution, but it brings depth into combat patterns for those who understand further how to position as a juggernaut. Since hitting the button would activate the shield, I think it wouldn't be any more less simple in execution rather than getting 6 seconds of 30% Damage Reduction. There is an issue with Courage, Garen's W currently in low ELO that the ability has such low visibility, they newer players will get frustrated that Garen is so durable, but it's actually a short window of added tankiness. But alas, this is my belief that any champion should be brought into viability that Master Tier is possible for them at least. But that's not how the game currently is for quite a few champions.
Meddler (NA)
: Nothing currently planned for Rengar. Garen we'd like to do some more small work on (I'm personally particularly interested in trying to make his W a bit more engaging/skill expressive). Timing on that's really unknown though, beyond sometime this year (could be soon, could be post World's patch).
Hi Meddler, if you read this I really appreciate your time. I've played thousands of games in Garen and I'm still struggling to get toward high Diamond or Masters with Garen. In fact, many Garen mains haven't been able to exceed this threshold of low Diamond. Sometimes it's decision making for sure, but we feel like Garen's limitations offer seldom a decent matchup. Although his W has strength lategame, it's absolutely a nonexistant ability in laning phase. This is why if you were to spectate a Garen game in Diamond where the enemy can easily anticipate Garen's approach of attack, Garen loses a lot of trades, even when I know I time my W correctly for example after I see my silence wears off. When a juggernaut simply can't even trade with tanks that are cc oriented like Maokai, Nautlius, and sometimes Zac, you know there is an issue. Even rushing Black Cleaver feels like a losing battle since these above champions, and Shen, who can get Sunfire Cape - punish us even more thanks to the percentile magic/physical damage scaling from the recent addition of 100 health. Courage of the Collusus is a keystone yet provides greater worth than Garen's W in itself. I'm losing matchups vs a player that has played less than 20 games on Darius, simply because mathematically there is no way to come on top on trades unless Darius refrains from hitting buttons on his keyboard. The ability has to be reworked. The feeling of fulling stacking your W is nice, but I feel like the lack of skill I basically provide later on in the game (Hit W while going in) is just devoid of critical thinking. I often get 40% CDR on Garen so hitting the ability as much as possible is a no-brainer. One small idea I had was having like a rounded square barrier with four walls that lasts multiple seconds- Similar to Fiora's Vitals in Grand challenge. Each wall could soak up an amount of damage. The counterplay is enemies positioning to remove one part of the wall, and then they can attack Garen's HP directly. It would be so cool to juggle positioning with a strong shield like that while chasing the villain. This could also encourage actual trading in lane, as if you run in lane, you're backside wall in the shield will be easily broken, but if you stay you could kite to a wall in Summoner's Rift and use the second shield wall. Further counterplay exists when the enemy could flash behind you to expose your backside for a kill, or even Garen flashing himself to get in a position to use his other walls in his shield. It's similar to Fiora but since they are both Demacian champions, thematically it could work, and by scrapping the always relevant, always spammed Damage Reduction you can give all elo ranges more counterplay in handling Garen. Honestly it's your call though. But please do not just alter the stats of W and call it a day. Garen has issues trading with anyone with true damage since it basically removes the ability from Garen's keyboard. And since we'll commonly only have the active for 2 seconds, it feels just extremely, painfully weak. Sincerely, ~A Passionate and deprived Diamond Garen main.
: Midseason Durability - Goals and Direction
Thank you again for your time. Keep being awesome - looking forward to midseason.
: Perhaps it will...
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WgNuqAK8,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-04-06T07:35:17.064+0000) > > Perhaps it will... Keep up the great work. I really hope you guys find suitable change for Doran's Shield because I'm climbing in D4 with Garen using **CORRUPTING POTION**. That's right, a champ with zero mana. I used to love Doran's shield but I feel like it's utility for toughing out lanes is so inferior to an item that can just give me 375 health in 36 seconds and refills, plus gives combat stats.
: What item(s) are you thinking? Like Warmogs? Or are there others that come to mind?
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WgNuqAK8,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-04-06T07:23:32.118+0000) > > What item(s) are you thinking? Like Warmogs? Or are there others that come to mind? Warmogs is definitely an avenue of curiosity. It does have some differences from Visage, but Visage appears to overshadow it, especially now since BortK is in full force and Liandry's is as strong as ever. There are so many times playing Garen that I've wanted to build warmogs, but I feel like if I haven't build Visage first then I skip it.
: Midseason Durability - Goals and Direction
Another affected class by this mid-season update will undoubtedly be juggernauts. Has Riot taken the time to anticipate how these changes will affect the likes of Garen/Darius/Nasus/Illaoi?
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: whats up with the mask?
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=UII8oqHY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-31T01:46:50.475+0000) > > whats up with the mask? It's part of my theme, similar to Cowsep's Cowsuit, or DisguisedToast's Mask. :)
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Starraka (NA)
: lol wat are ribbons? those things that are so hard to get and easy to lose they arnt worth the effort?
Keeping one is pretty effortless, so long as you have the heart for being....nice and memorable in every game. :) I've kept a Ribbon for years, no problem whatsoever.
lildyo (NA)
: Just watched your series. Awesome work man! Keep being a beacon of positivity in the community. :)
I will continue to represent the good. I'm never going to stop until the community sees some serious change. :) Thank you so much for your time!
Selegun (NA)
: Great series to watch! I found the channel on accident a few weeks ago and subbed shortly after. This is the kind of content I'd like to see in the league client. Keep up the great work!
I'm really aiming high to get Riot's attention in their whole spectrum someday. I just have to work harder and be more consistent and there is definitely a chance for me to be in the client someday. I simply cannot wait. :) Thank you so much for your support!
: Gotta say man, that was a great series, and I will definitely be following your channel from here on out. I try to be the peacemaker in all my games when players get frustrated, and I can respect someone with a positive attitude like yours. On a side note, I would like see Vayne or Riven face the same challenge because while Teemo is a highly controversial champion, Vayne and Riven have a reputation (at least in low elos) of breeding toxic players or toxicity in general. I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide. Have a Great Day! {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} KingWanahakalugi
Thank you so much for the kind words. I'm really glad that you discovered me, and that I discovered another player who says no to being toxic and bitter. I have my audience voting in the Episode 8 comments section for what champion I get a Ribbon next with, but Vayne and Riven are definitely frequently voted for I would say by gauging it. :) Thank you for your personal efforts to help make League a better place, and have a fantastic one. I hope to see you in the future.
: I came in here, expecting to see something like * I played with premade buddies so they honored me every match * I fed every game and ppl felt satisfied after slaughtering teemo * I told opponent "trick or treat, shroom or honor" Didn't think I'd see a serious post @_@
I'm sure you weren't the only one. The reaction can be baffling sometimes. ^_^ I was surprised I got the Ribbon in just 25 games.
Rioter Comments
: if your want to this kind of challenge again, try it with {{champion:105}} next time. He's a lot more current in his stigma of toxicity while {{champion:17}} has been nerfed to the point that none of the newer players REALLY understand why he got his nickname other than "It's a long standing LoL meme".
I have my entire audience voting as of right now for what champion I should get a Ribbon next with. Fizz is definitely one of the most voted contenders right now. :)
Doofs (NA)
: Wait! Riot still gives out ribbons!?? Shit man I gave up, I've googled similar stuff and went on a streak of getting atleast one honor per game for like two months now and have gotten anything. I was actually planning to make a post asking Riot to look at my chat history and seeing what dirt they can bring up to help hammer in the point. xD Either way jfc congratz, I (and don't tell Riot) envy you. xD
Hahahah, I'm sure some Rioters have already found out about my feat! Yeah, I'm thoroughly convinced there is nothing holding back anyone from getting a Ribbon today. You can definitely do it as well - check out the resources that are Honor related on my channel to get an idea of how to get one yourself. :)
Carnage (NA)
: fake
I don't know, I must be pretty foolish to keep up an act for over five years. X)
: wtf when i play teemo no matter what i say or do i get reported for playing him
That's definitely strange! I don't think I've been reported once, and I played all of those 25 games in ranked. I'm pretty sure your account won't be punished though - you're just playing Teemo!
Aeszarck (NA)
: You're a great guy, ristiuMMask. Keep up the encouragement.
Absolutely. I will never stop until we see some serious change. :) I appreciate the time spent towards watching my stuff.
Eevlynn (NA)
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIAeisuevwc Here's his video explaining how the honor system works - in short, you need to be able to consistently be receiving honor to be awarded one. (also, it's not a permanent thing - you need to keep getting honor to maintain your ribbon !!)
Eevlynn is right. (Thanks Eev!) Please refer to this video and the above post in detail, as you need to be honored consistently to get a Ribbon, and remain consistently honored to keep a Ribbon. :)
Lysine (EUW)
: Hmmm... saying "goodness gracious" seems only limited to when he's speaking, he can actually write like a normal person!
((She'll soon realize that I'm far from normal. Who else on the planet wears a mask seven days a week? :p ))
Vikíng (NA)
: Aye, I was watching this series just last week. I've been doing this and it has made me stop tilting and I feel like a more positive player. :^)
Glad to see that you're seeing results for sure. I find the whole process to be fairly easy once you get in the swing of things. :)
: You could probably X-post this in behavior and moderation. The mods don't have a hard rule against it if it's relevant, which this definitely is. I've posted your videos there a couple times.
I really appreciate the support you give my channel. Great suggestion! I'll copy it over there in a few. :)
Rioter Comments
: Satan shouldn't have an honor ribbon...
Rioter Comments
: Can you teach the trolls to be less toxic?
My policy is killing with kindness, although my content is aimed towards players looking to reform. :)
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Disjointed and way too long introduction, got bored around the point you were talking about video game music nostalgia.
Thanks for the feedback. :)
Rioter Comments
Tamat (NA)
: What's everyone listening to?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlxC25vxSnI One of my favorite musicians brings Metroid to life in a way I couldn't comprehend prior to listening.

riste

Level 320 (NA)
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