: What I have been told by Zed mains on this board for the month
@this thread. You're all right. I hope to fucking god they release season 3 Zed back in the game. Please. Let's see this "skill expression" that boards yearn for. Back when he got free bonus AD on W, had a lower CD on W, more damage on his abilities, faster cast times, and no ult snapback delay. Please I beg that Riot reverts Zed to season 3 right now. He'll be _so balanced_. Definitely not everyone on boards will bitch about him 24/7.
nelogis (EUW)
: Can someone explain to me how Zed is getting nerfed before Riven?
It's because he's stronger in bronze/silver whereas Riven only dominates diamond+. That is the real answer. Riot will pander to the bigger part of their playerbase.
Kaisha (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=skyskee008,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=K0Uydb1M,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-04-08T18:53:33.742+0000) > > Idk. You report me every time I call you low elo garbage that is completely clueless about how to build the champions he literally has played 100+ games on and the amount of small brain ness required to not understand why your builds are bad completely astounds anyone with half a brain cell. And maybe if you actually learned how to play the game and build your champions you woundn't be hardstuck in silver with 500 games played and bitching on boards 24/7. Every second I spent trying to tell you ROA first on support Velkoz is bad made me lose brain cells and patience and I hope you play 500 more games and stay hardstuck in silver. You might actually have a mental illness IRL if its that hard for you to accept that you're bad and clueless. I hope you feel bad. You think that builds in league have anything to do with IQ? LOLOL. You're going to be in a rude awakening when you hit university... TBH I don't remember ever responding to you, unless you're the guy who tried to claim that Luden's had more burst than Death Cap. I'd avoid losing more brain cells though, from the sounds of it you're in short supply. And I don't care about being 'hard stuck' in silver, if I wanted to play a FOTM carry and rank up I could... its boring, I've done it before. The fact you think I want to and cannot is pure projection. > So I don't think that should be removed or censored either. If you can't see the difference between attacking a person and attacking an idea, I can't help you.
I can't understand a single word you're saying. I believe you're speaking low elo. Please get that translated.
S0kaX (EUNE)
: Zed, a broken champion, lost against Zoe, another broken champion. Seems fair to me.
Good analysis. Ignore the level/item difference and just boil it down to that.
: To be fair in the lcs they start calling it late game when the adc gets 2 items.
Not just that, but "late game teamfights" are happening at 20 minutes and games are ending at 25 minutes. As an avid LCS & LCK viewer it's stupid. It's not exciting, it's not rewarding, it's just a shitfest every game every team.
: Actually, ironically, people like you are the problem too. The opposite side of the extreme. Its understandable that extremism on one end will breed extremism on the other (yourself). But anyone with a more moderate lens can open these forums and clearly see it is not a case of "OMG SKY IS FALLING" where everybody is making threads about how we should intentionally feed or troll our teammates. That is not the case at all and if you think thats what the forums are actually doing , idk get help. As for the ADC threads. ADCs are a serious problem at all levels of play right now. Saying "get over it" is once again part of the opposite end of the extreme problem. People have created dozens of moderate threads , calmly discussing why they are a problem , what they are doing to opponents and offering potential solutions. People have had "actual balance conversations" for weeks on weeks about what should be changed and how. Seems like you ignored all of that and probably cherry picked a few instances to create this "sky is falling" thread. Whether random people like you ignore the threads or not , we dont care, what we do care about is that Riot is not responding or showing any ounce of communication, especially in regard to the champion twitch. As the weeks go on and Riot continues to not respond or acknowledge the concern then threads will continue to get more and more extreme. Thats just how the world works , if any group of people are voicing a concern over something , and it gets ignored , then those people become more extreme in voicing it. > [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2eUBGEjs,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-09-13T17:22:08.437+0000) > > hehe Rito no nerferino Jannerino plezerino. Balanced. Uhhhhh only good in the meta. Uhhhhhh ADCs are too strong. Uhhhhhh nerf ADCs not broken support items. Thnx rito ;) Take this for example , just look at yourself. You are just as stupid as them , just in the opposite extreme. ADCs are a blatant problem , get over yourself.
"ADCs are a blatant problem" but people on boards a majority of the time aren't like "let's do this change maybe change warlords increase IE price". No, they're like "ADCs have been mandatory and they're always OP and they were only truly balanced at the start of the season even though Pros/analysts agreed they were weak"
: Wasn't the problem the fact that tanks and bruisers abused Cinderhulk by getting absurd amounts of damage from abilities that had health scaling all while being really tanky?
These guys probably don't remember the "tank meta" of season 5/some of 6 lmao. They're acting like it was "slow drawn out fights". Not: Mundo running through 3 towers and diving you/killing you just as fast because of how much damage his E gave. Or not: If the enemy team got an early kill you literally couldn't look at your tower because Towers didn't effect Volibear/Udyr/Poppy after 1 item. Or not: every single champion was built better as tank because tank items were so busted. Yeah, it wasn't inherently a problem in Ekko's kit either - it was just that he did it the best. Tank Katarina, Tank Fizz, Tank Zed, Tank Talon, Tank Jhin, Tank Yi, Full Tank Wukong and some others I can't remember did absurd amounts of damage while building pretty much full tank. Even right now, what makes the games so snowbally is BECAUSE tanks get so unkillable + ADCs scale faster. Pretty much: its a 2 pronged attack. They "split" the tank meta of before into 2 roles. Before Tanks not only tanked everything, they also killed everything. Now ADCs kill everything (even better than old tanks), and Tanks tank everything (even better than old tanks).
: Vayne isn't played top outside of bronze. Graves, Kindred, and Quinn aren't played bot lane. Vayne isn't played in the jungle. Ashe isn't played as a support.
Shh. Also most of them have shit win rates besides Quinn. But shh, you can't say anything reasonable here.
Glîtchy (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ShadeDi,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tMfgw0hu,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-11T16:56:54.140+0000) > > Yeah but you do know that when people say 1 shot on the boards, they don't mean actual one shots. Like twitch "one shot" on a bruiser. What? So why say "one-shot" if they don't mean a literal 1-shot?
Because pretty much no champion in the game can 1 shot. 1 shot has just come to mean killed without being able to react now. And people over exaggerate anyways.
: Why are we turning Vayne into a ranged Yi?
Kind of is. She's always shit because when she's good she's oppressive. That's because she busts tanks but even better she just 3 shots squishies, so why not build her to be a ranged assassin. At least this makes her a niche champion so you can't draft 4 tanks without either banning her or picking her.
: > [{quoted}](name=XDarkPlasmaX,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eesEj5If,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-09-09T23:12:01.138+0000) > > Hopefully they will fix the issues after worlds is over or beginning of the pre-season.Ardent censor is getting a nerf in 7.19 and one of its stats is being removed. Tristan's is getting a nerf aswell. worlds arent an excuse. the worlds patches were around 7.15 and 7.16. worlds arent played on the live patches by the time the tournament starts. they could do something about it **right now**. op could replace "mid lane" with "top lane" and "assassin" with "fighter" and its the same problem. i decided to give up on ranked until preseason for the same reason. if you dont play bot lane or at least jungle, you have no agency over the game. and junglers lose their impact after 10 minutes aswell, if they arent peel bots. end of season the ques are flooded with boosters anyways because people start paying for those diamond loading screen boarders. the meta is cancer, the ques are cancer. no point in playing. i dont even blame tanks, nor am i bothered with the amount of cc. i blame marksmen and their items. the class is just way overtuned. other carry classes benefit the same way from support protection and tank cc. but since marksmen are just so much stronger with their itemization and their damage tuning, they get the most out of all the support. they need to cut marksmen dps down to the levels of melee carries, and apc.
I mean Yi/Trynd/Fiora generally outdps the shit out of marksmen they just can't get in range without dying.
PB4UAME (NA)
: If Twitch was level 14 at the time, with just those items, he'd have over 200 AD (even without runes and masteries. With full runes, plus, say, fervor, he can hit up to 275 AD at that point) which with IE is already almost a 600 damage crit, as its 500 at 200 AD, and over 688 with the full set up, add in the on hit from BotRK, his extra damage on his ultimate, the shiv hit plus crit which is 345 damage already, and he could potentially be clocking in at over 1k base damage before mitigation from a single crit with just those three items, and runes.
Thing is Lux can 1 shot you from Morello + Needlessly large EASILY. She just overkills you after that unless you build MR.
: ADC isn't particularly difficult either, unless you're playing {{champion:119}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:67}}
Literally the games objective has changed from the nexus to killing the ADC. Definitely not an easy role.
: Oh, come on. Ashe? Like, even joking, she has no burst. She's nothing but DPS, utility, and CC.
Yeah there's a reason Riot doesn't listen to boards.
: Riot buffs more than they nerf, you're just stating a bunch of irrelevant things to try to prove a point. Look at the last 3 patches. More buffs than nerfs. Why? Because nerfing Sejuanni and doing their job is "hard".
Minor buffs in the past few patches, whole season has been nerf fest. "Riot buffs more than they nerf". I didn't state anything irrelevant. They are all nerfs and most of them were significant. . I'd reccomend that you sit down and actually read all past 17 patch notes (or 39 if you feel like it). Of course you won't and continue to give your ignorant opinion as fact.
Cowseed (NA)
: Because they thought we all had friends. Stupid assumtion, I know.
I mean 5 man premade is still a lot. Like I have 2-3 friends I generally play with.
: That buff is pretty huge for early game. It means he can clear better and has stronger ganks. Seems like they just want him to be the early gank ganker instead of the team fight LC$ big plays.
He has a full health clear already and this doesn't help his ganks at all because how will having a shield help his ganks? It helps his skirmishes I guess.
: She's been overpowered for years. One of the most oppressive champs ever created. Riot realized eventually that she had to be gutted. Their mistake was not doing it sooner. But ya, nerfs are mostly insignificant. Maokai, Lee sin etc.
How are nerfs insignificant? He got hit with -50/100/150 damage on ult, and a +30/15 cd on ult. That's frickin huge for his execute potential and early pressure. But he gets +15 shield at rank one oh no (he has a full health clear anyways so it doesn't effect that). Maokai - they literally completely killed AP Maokai which was their goal. Buffs are generally insignificant. For example buffs look like: 2 sec cd reduction on Trist Q, 1 second CD reduction on Ekko E at early ranks. These are the "buffs" that make the boards community whine and moan. (Increase win rate by 0.5%) What nerfs look like: Caits Q damage reduced, base attack speed reduced TWICE, trap damage AND cc nerfed, headshot damage nerfed. Boards: haha yeah she deserves to be gutted. Decrease win rate by 10%
: Udyr - just got a ton of buffs. Plus current items allow him to overcome his "weakness" in being kiteable - once he closes the gap, he pretty much murders anything 1v1 Yi - buff to his ult - not wasting its duration when he enters meditate - also very much broken if you don't have tons of hard cc lucian - still no mana issues in most scenarios and very much top tier mid and respectable adc lb - yeah, yet she's still very solid early/mid game; late game, she could probably use some help - they should look into making her scale better by making her more durable or give durability enhancing items she can purchase - zhonya doesn't really help darius - nerfs were way long ago, anyone who plays toplane and isn't a total darius fanboy at cost of being blind to reality will tell you the nerfs were justified mumu - actually got buffed - and no it doesn't require any more team play then before brand - totally incorrect - he was fine before, they literally just added another basic ability worth of damage onto his kit for landing multiple spells on a target mundo - wasn't nerfed fiora - lost MOVESPEED bonus for vitals and ult - something that made her nigh impossible to escape from on top of her already stupidly overloaded damage - like 54% TRUE DAMAGE for hitting someone 4 times PLUS she gets healing from it? Completely justified and very lenient compared to how they could have nerfed her kha - nerfed q damage; BUFFED isolated q damage to more than it was before; it's was already way too high before considering how durable he actually is leona - claimed they buffed cuz more damage from her passive, but lost much more in durability and base damage on spells early when she's already not the tankiest support despite having to commit more than a taric or thresh to engage rengar - not trash like everyone claims; just doesn't fit people's fantasy for him; there is a difference sej - top tier jg since rework trundle - buffed/reverted - can chomp towers again and I believe got some dmg back on his q yorick - actually very good champ - nigh unkillable 1v1 if he plays smart, strong pushing power, can ult, leave lane for a 5v5, and still take down enemy tower and farm in lane halfway across map while teamfighting thanks to ult zac - probably nerfed him all backwards - he was too reliable of long range engage - if his e missed, he still cc'd you and gave his team a free kill. Instead of decreasing the reliability and leaving him otherwise untouched, they nerfed all his damages - making jungling a pain
They nerfed Khas isolated Q damage as well. Iirc it wasn't 160% bonus AD changed to 140%. Udyr: he doesn't murder shit 1v1. He's probably the weakest duelist out of every duelist/fighter/Juggernaut. He loses the 1v1 to Nasus, Darius, Illaoi, Yorick, Fiora, Irelia, Tryndamere, Mordekaiser, Garen, Yi, Volibear. Probably a lot of others. As someone who plays a lot of Udyr I guarantee he's complete shit in this meta. Also, he wasn't straight up "buffed", he was changed. Regardless it doesn't matter because he has too many glaring weaknesses he can't overcome. Sej - top tier doesn't mean she didn't get nerfed Fiora - lol, she's been nerfed SO much since her rework. Her vitals and ult used to do A LOT more damage and her E was stronger too. The MS nerf was just another nerf because the amount of nerfs to all other tops made her meta again. Rengar: Pretty much gutted. If you think Rengar is playable then you're mistaken. He can't even clear jungle, let alone assassinate anyone (or 1v1 someone). Lucian: No mana issues? Ok so you're just trolling now? Decent ADC? Top tier mid in SoloQ (45% w/r). Yeah you're trolling. I didn't say Trundle/Amumu were nerfed.
: This thread is bullshit. Riot buffs champions that don't need it literally every patch. The nerfs they hand out are mostly insignificant. We have damage creep partly because Riot buffs more than they nerf. Downvoted and moving on.
I make a claim > back it up with tones of evidence. You make a claim > say everything I said is bullshif > provide no evidence > don't counter my evidence > "downvote and moving on". This is what's wrong with boards. Also nerfs are insignificant. Fucking lmao. Yeah I'm sure "insignicant nerfs" made Caitlyn the worst ADC (43% wr) from the best ADC (53% + wr) I'm sure "insignificant nerfs" made Azir/Ryze from pick/ban to a troll pick. Fucking kek
: watch any pro game ever..
Pro game are different because they can abuse Lucians early lane priority/use him as a counter pick. Also Pros can use Corkis package more effectively.
: Fair enough Ornn did get a ton of buffs regardless of his state before being buffed though
I don't really count "on release champs" because obviously they'll have balancing issues. Only reason I included Camille was because she's kept getting nerfed even after she was pretty much fine for a while.
: Malphite used to have 280/270 base dmg on his Q and way higher base damage on his ultimate with high ratios Yes season1 players are aware that Riot nerfs more then they buff but that still doesnt stop People from MAKING POWER CREEP IS RUNING A GAME THREADS HURR durr give me upvotes eventhough I have no idea what I am talking about However Every Zeal item is power crept same as IE LW wasnt nerfed. YOU CAN access lw with 1300 gold thats a buff
LW items went from 45% to 35% bonus armour pen. Giant slayer passive was also nerfed.
: mfw all you say about rek'sai is "reworked" what about the 12 straight nerfs in a row?
I mean... she was nerfed into the ground BECAUSE of competitive and how good her ult was/her early presence was. They realized that they needed to rework parts of her so she wouldn't have to be gutted because of high elo/competitive. So the rework did give her some power back. However right now, Kayn just does her job better (invunerability ult if the target is marked - good dives, a knock up, good early ganks, a lot of terrain scaling).
: Riot: Ornn gets new items, more W range, less slowdown, and max health damage, along with pillar popping up faster Singed gets grounding, more q scaling, better passive, and more ult stats Ornn was awful yes, but singed was in a decent place before then
Singed in turn lost base damages and base stats. Ornn was just god awful and I'm pretty sure hes still god awful.
: Lee's getting +20/15/10/5/0 on his shield's flat value on the PBE, and no nerfs.
He lost 50/100/150 damage on ult and like 30/15/0 sec CD on ult increase Boards: Not enough, "love tap nerf". +20 shield on W. Boards: WTF broken?!
Glory97 (EUW)
: Well the total list of nerf is indeed bigger than the list of buffs... Riot nerf: [insert long explanation] ~~Base AD: 62.156~~ --> Base AD: 62.155 Riot buffs: [short and hilarious explanation: "fares pretty well when his cooldowns are up"]: NEW EFFECT: Percent Max Health DMG, NEW EFFECT..., Ultimate Damage increased by 200 per rank, Does Insane extra damage against turrets... coin+ardent censer supports are running around with insane winrate, better buff spellthief items instead Twitch has a 55% winrate for several patches, riot buffs ezreal.
Lol. You just made that shit up. Yeah there are nerfs to 1-2 base shit here and there, but there are also buffs like that. Go read patch notes and tell me what buffs Riots ACTUALLY given out that have been remotely as good as that. I can name 10 champions Riot gutted this season with nerfs alone. Your whole premise is bullshit because it never happens.
: Sometimes I wonder if Riot has one of those lottery ball machines with different champion names on each ball, and at every patch they randomly pick 4-5 balls and say "hmm lets randomly buff this champ a little bit" because that's honestly how it feels. They rarely give meaningful buffs unless a champion is really struggling, but the amount of minor buffs they give to random champions at random times is just weird... especially when the champion isn't even struggling.
Yeah, thats exactly right. Every buff feels like it doesn't really help the champion/the champion doesn't need it. Their nerfs however can often be MUCH much heavier. Or they buff something llike Cho'Gath and then he's op as fuck.
Rioter Comments
: Just pull it up, jfc. Show me how they didn't kite and still did it, damage means nothing by itself. SHOW ME THE TRISTANA 1v2ing a jugger and a tank, and WINNING without kiting. "sure thing buddy. You can say what you want..."
Yeah it never happened unless he misplayed super hard and in either case he's not gonna bring it up.
: So damage is the only thing that matters?
Powercreep comes mostly from Damage. And yeah - in terms of this discussion it is. People saying "ADCs killing everything and 1shotting everyone" even though in terms of damage they're no better off than they were before. In fact their end game builds are generally worse off in terms of stats/AD than before. They might reach the build 200 gold faster but it doesn't increase their damage overall. LW has been nerfed hard too - but people seem to forget that when understanding why tanks are so strong.
GigglesO (NA)
: Ha, I haven't seen an adc orb walk since season 3.... Right now they just stand there and nuke you. Or even better yet jump on top of you. {{champion:18}}
Oh look, another Morde main saying things that aren't true. You probably haven't seen an ADC NOT orbwalk since season 3. Yeah, I'm sure a Tristana jumps on your face for a 1v1 because she'll DEFINITELY win that 1v1 against a Morde /s Balance team is biased but Boards aren't biased. Because the actual player base is ACTUALLY 50% morde mains.
: ADC's have been buffed since season 6. Anyways since season 6 All adcs(mages, and others) got magic resist this season, which was a buff. Jinx got buffed Ashe was slightly buffed, her slow got stronger with crit and attack speed, q duration went up(4 to 5) and its stacks now fall off one at a time. The q damage was reduced by .1, and her W cd got increased 1 second at max level. Ashe can kite with her q better overall. Vayne was buffed, the "revert" and nerf were the same thing(not even a revert), her tumbles bonus ad scaling is down by .2 late game but, she got buffed allowing her q to crit, and it even works on towers now. Cait: yea, not checking, your probably right Ezreal: R cooldown up, q early cooldown down(better for tear) pause: non damage buffs are still buffs Trist: yup, the q buff was her only buff this season(minus the squishy champ magic resist boost), can you believe that she wasnt changed at all in season 6. Kalista: Her rend has been only getting buffs for 2 seasons, nerfed ult, nerfs that force kalista to be with her oathsworn to recover her nerfed attack speed. She is getting back in lcs, but overall nerf. Twitch: If we count season 5, he was buffed. Twitch q buffed overall(now camoflauge, attack speed nerf, less mana needed), W buff, ult mana cost reduced,duration down, base damage up. MF: buffed passive, and q buffed and crit was added to it(if first bounce killed, crit scales with ie). Strut(can't tell if its a buff or nerf, never played mf back then). Lucian: passive buff, q, w , and ult range down. Q damage down by 20, q mana up by 20. Lucian q and w cast times went down(better combos late game- was fun watching this happen, people who saw video on reddit thought lucian was in practice tool because of how smooth it got). Pretty far from a gutting. Sivir: q got 30 extra damage(even at lvl 1), W was buffed to crit. These were her only changes in the last 2 seasons barring the great squishy champ magic resist boost(mentioned above), I really thought there would be more. Jhin: Q damage up, R (base)damage up-slow down, R scaling down by .05, W nerfed damage, ignoring buffs and nerfs for 2 patches after his release b/c new champs need to be adjusted. Kog: Ap build gutted, R/W/Q buffed if you ignore rework Xayah: too early All in all, Adcs were buffed for the last 2 seasons, most are in a better spot then they were at the end of season 5(poor caitlyn). Buffing items that a character uses is a buff for the character. The items got more AD and lifesteal, the crit cost reduction, caused most ADC's to reach teamfighting power earlier. Sure, ADC's have been getting buffed, but the buffs that really tipped the scale were the item buffs.
Ashes Q duration actually went down from 5 to 4. This was after worlds where she was super dominant and got hit with nerfs a few patches in tow. Her early W cd also got hit hard. Also Q damage reduced by .1 means she effectively loses 5% damage with Q on (5 bolts with 20-24% damage). Jhin R BASE damage was readjusted because it FIRST got nerfed hard AND DFT got nerfed which put him in a shit spot. They also lowered the slow so they decided to add some damage back to ult. W nerfed damage and scaling. Jhin s ult used to do a retarded amount of damage before. Lucian first got gutted because of ghostblade. Then the item got gutted too and he started getting buffs. When he started synergizing with Bork they nerfed him AND the item. He's practically unplayable botlane and good midlane situationally but still has a shot win rate mid too. Vayne Q always crit. They only changed it so it crit uniformly with her auto instead of seperately. Her buff was on towers. Twitch got an attack speed nerf on Q, and his stealth was buffed in terms of longevity - camouflage is not a buff though. Varus: Q cd hit super hard. Among other things since he was top tier. Draven: Changed Q from base AD to BonuS AD - nerfing his early and buffing his late. Jinx: Q rockets don't scale as well with attack speed - nerfing her late game. Ult damage up/trap damage up (a joke). So overall shift of power/nerf. OVERALL ADCs have been nerfed. Pretty much the only top tier ADCs right now are the ones that didn't get hit with the nerf bat hard. Trist/Kog/Twitch/Draven are the top tier ADCs and NONE of them had significant buffs. Nope. Every other AD just got nerfed. Idk where you get your facts from but you clearly have not kept up with patches on ADCs. Pretty much every ADC change is a nerf unless they're gutter garbage <47% win rate. Only reason Ezreal/Lucian/Jhin got their buffs. Phylol on YouTube makes a video every time there's an ADC change too.
: It is related to the discussion though. You have adcs being buffed based on one another with no regard for any other champions and how they might interact and play against them. That is a huge issue. You don't have mages melting towers atm and the adc creep is clearly the reason why.
What ADCs have been buffed though? Their itemization has been made cheaper but ADCs? Since season 6: Ashe: heavily nerfed (W cd and damage, Q damage, Q uptime) Vayne: Buffed then nerfed then buff reverted Cait: Gutted Ezreal: nerfed hard because of blue ez then buffed Trist: CD lowered on Q by a couple secs. Doesn't realistically increase her damage Kalista: nerfed a lot, then buffed slightly but it doesn't increase her damage. Twitch: nerfed attack speed from stealth and bonus AD on ult iirc. Stealth duration increased? Doesn't increase his damage. Lucian: Q, W, and ult range reduced. Pretty much gutted. Sivir: Changed to have W crit, then nerfed a fuck ton, buffed her Q damage slightly. Jhin: Every ability damage nerfed+mana costs nerfed+DFT nerfed + ult utility nerfed MF: Don't think she's been changed. Kog: Reverted. Don't remember changes. IK AP kog was nerfed. Can't think of any more off the top of my head. But sure, ADCs just keep getting buffed.
I is Kayn (EUW)
: believe me, my dude I tried trusting my teammate, got me to b3 but now that I just concentrate on myself and played 1v9 champs like tryn (who is boring af, that's why I am in search for a new one) I got back to silver 2
Renekton or Fiora will fit your playstyle. Renekton TPs bot lane are also very powerful.
: >Im plat 4 and i smurf in silver occasionally on friends accounts. You are probably boosted into plat 2??? I don't have problems in silver elo. yeah some afks and trolls because they arent good but its still easy.... And i main shen... that has a lot to say since Shen is team reliant. Plat 4 on NA ... Watch out, we got a badass over here. I win/carry games in Plat 2, cuz most of the people know, what theyre actually supposed to do. It's much easier, if you play a 5v5 match. According to your attitude, you are probably like what, 15 y.o.? I used to play on NA and the Korean servers aswell, but keep talking ...
> [{quoted}](name=fr0z3n b0n3r,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=sPPn1Pot,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-09-01T14:55:35.594+0000) > > Plat 4 on NA ... > Watch out, we got a badass over here. > I win/carry games in Plat 2, cuz most of the people know, what theyre actually supposed to do. It&#x27;s much easier, if you play a 5v5 match. > According to your attitude, you are probably like what, 15 y.o.? > > I used to play on NA and the Korean servers aswell, but keep talking ... Lol. It's easy as fk for anyone in Plat to get out of Silver. Also a real smurf wouldn't get tilted in lower elos because no1 gives a shit on their smurf accounts - pretty much the reason people have smurfs. My Plat 1 friend casually gets his smurf to Plat 5 at the end of the season even from Silver 5. It's just too easy when you're that much better. Either you're super rusty or boosted.
Eedat (NA)
: Because the CD was nerfed for the purpose of gutting lane Lulu and used to be lower? Thank god. Lane Lulu also always rushed a CDR item and took CDR in runes and masteries Vayne also doesn't self shield so any damage you get in here actually goes through Lane Lulu never needs to be a thing again
I'm guessing these people have never played against a lane Lulu lol. At least ADCs don't have a giant shield they can keep popping. At least those ADCs don't have a cockblock 70% slow + if you try super hard she'll just polymorph you. Oh, and if you try and play passive? You're still screwed because they can keep poking you under tower and shield any tower damage. Oh yeah... she also SCALED really well. God I'm tilted just remembering trying to lane against her.
: {{champion:77}} RIP
> [{quoted}](name=EndlessSorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JE7Q5FpU,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-08-30T00:57:32.751+0000) > > {{champion:77}} RIP God I love Udyr - I hope they don't give him a rework, and just give him small buffs and wait until meta shifts to him.
: And that's why ADCs are popular/strong right now. It's almost as if when a class is strong, their counter becomes popular in order to fight them.
> [{quoted}](name=TouchFluffyTaiI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=comfiyHE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-08-31T19:27:41.395+0000) > > And that&#x27;s why ADCs are popular/strong right now. It&#x27;s almost as if when a class is strong, their counter becomes popular in order to fight them. Tanks don't counter ADCs though...?
: You should also point out that a lone marksman = free kill unless the assassin is so underfed that he can't even kill a single thing in a rotation. They are actually way more tied to their teammates than we supports are, if anything. At least we supports can get out alive should we ever get caught, these little guys can't unless they have some kind of mobility. I came here expecting another generic and overly biased anti-ADC thread, but it's a good reminder to all of us here. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
> [{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qdIwxxr7,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-08-31T09:05:53.767+0000) > > You should also point out that a lone marksman = free kill unless the assassin is so underfed that he can&#x27;t even kill a single thing in a rotation. > > They are actually way more tied to their teammates than we supports are, if anything. At least we supports can get out alive should we ever get caught, these little guys can&#x27;t unless they have some kind of mobility. > > I came here expecting another generic and overly biased anti-ADC thread, but it&#x27;s a good reminder to all of us here. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} Inb4 "but adc 1 shot assassin not the other way around". Pretty much the only assassin where thats the case is Leblanc (maybe Rengar? I never see him after the hefty nerfs)
Niaphim (EUW)
: Talking about win rates, your argument is flawed simply because marksmen have been required for the longest time in League history and are mandantory on both teams in the botlane. Whether marksmen feel weak or strong, you ALWAYS have (at least) one on each side, because they are the absolutely the best class to take down objectives. Let's say some midlane assassin becomes overpowered. Then their mains can feed themselves on mages, who tend to be vulnerable and countered by assassins. Strong bruisers can destroy tanks or even mages who occasionally appear in the toplane. In jungle we have (or at least used to have) a large variety of champion types. So, what do you have in botlane? It's marksman vs marksman. Always. So they can't influence the absolute winrate unless one of the teams replaces their marksman by some other carry. Broken cancels out broken.
> [{quoted}](name=Niaphim,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qdIwxxr7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-08-31T01:06:08.956+0000) > > Talking about win rates, your argument is flawed simply because marksmen have been required for the longest time in League history and are mandantory on both teams in the botlane. Whether marksmen feel weak or strong, you ALWAYS have (at least) one on each side, because they are the absolutely the best class to take down objectives. > > Let&#x27;s say some midlane assassin becomes overpowered. Then their mains can feed themselves on mages, who tend to be vulnerable and countered by assassins. Strong bruisers can destroy tanks or even mages who occasionally appear in the toplane. In jungle we have (or at least used to have) a large variety of champion types. So, what do you have in botlane? It&#x27;s marksman vs marksman. Always. So they can&#x27;t influence the absolute winrate unless one of the teams replaces their marksman by some other carry. Broken cancels out broken. If Marksmen are so broken then the marksmen in other lanes would have absurd win rates (Lucian 45.5% win rate, Corki 47.7%, Quinn 52.6% win rate, Kindred 49.6% win rate, Graves [if you count him] 47.5% win rate, Twitch [jg] - not a lot of data but switch with smite flash is 46.67% win rate). The problem is that pretty most marksmen have little play-making ability. Like a Zed can go side lanes and snowball his team - or 1 shot a priority target. A riven top can get a 3-man knockup into 1-shot combo. A tryndamere/fiora can split push to victory. Even someone like Malphite can make a 3-man engage to win a teamfight. Yes, ADCs do have playmaking capabilities, but they can't really do much to WIN THE GAME for their team - they pretty much NEED their team for 90% of what they want to accomplish (teamfights or sieging, or follow-up from the team for Sivir/Ashe/Varus ults). ADCs are VERY strong - but for SoloQ its almost NEVER easy to climb using ADC in lower elos. It's not about being broken or not, ADC just feels like shit to play in SoloQ.
: I'm someone who does not play ADC, and I can still acknowledge that it is literally the ONLY role in the game that requires actual skill. Its not just right clicking from range, its positioning, and knowing when you can and cannot fight. Other roles have room for error. ADC's do not.
> [{quoted}](name=PhearBunny,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qdIwxxr7,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-08-31T00:58:57.084+0000) > > I&#x27;m someone who does not play ADC, and I can still acknowledge that it is literally the ONLY role in the game that requires actual skill. > > Its not just right clicking from range, its positioning, and knowing when you can and cannot fight. > Other roles have room for error. ADC&#x27;s do not. ADCs probably have the most MICRO skill. Unfortunately to play ADC you really don't need that much macro skill (pretty much every high elo ADC will say the same thing - its simply because all you need to be able to do is farm well and then know how to position in teamfights)
: > [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4okkyY3f,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-08-29T21:44:57.544+0000) > > And you lose all right to complain about your report the _second_ you ban a teammate&#x27;s pick. > > I really don&#x27;t care if the champion has a literal 3% win rate. I don&#x27;t care if it&#x27;s Tristana Jungle. > > #***YOU NEVER HAVE THE RIGHT TO BAN A TEAMMATE&#x27;S PICK*** Wrong. Your ban is the one vote you do get. You certainly can use it to ban one of their picks. However that doesn't mean its consequence free. Some people will feed or worse in retaliation because they are petty.
> [{quoted}](name=StonePlatypus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4okkyY3f,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-08-29T22:02:44.936+0000) > > Wrong. Your ban is the one vote you do get. You certainly can use it to ban one of their picks. However that doesn&#x27;t mean its consequence free. Some people will feed or worse in retaliation because they are petty. You're also petty for banning your team mates champion.
: There Used to Be a Thing Called a Dive Comp
There still are dive comps... J4/Gragas/Galio/Renekton/Maokai/Cho Maokai/J4/Gragas/Zac Gallo/Fizz/Ekko/Kassadin Also you're acting like divers have been out of meta for seasons, just earlier this season Vi/Hecarim/Lee Sin/Kha/Rengar dominated the jungle.
: ADCs are the cancer of this game. Items getting nerfed because they abuse them. Riot doesn't give a shit about nerfing items due to ADCs and forgetting all about their intended users. First of all ADCs need nerfs to their early game and 1v1 potential. They spike with a BF sword. They also solo tanks, assassins, bruisers and the likes. I actually don't even engage on ADCs anymore because they will right click on me 2-3 times and I'm dead. On top of it all we literally have teams at LCS with the only damage dealer being an ADC. That should tell you something about how busted this class really is. 2-3 tanks to face tank for the ADC, and 1-2 support-style champs to be their butt buddies and boost their damage to even more insane levels. On top of that you have a shit ton of ADCs with mobility, survability, untargetability and the list goes on. {{champion:119}} is essentially a drain tank with {{item:3812}}. {{champion:498}} is pure cancer and not a viable target in team fights. You try to touch her and she pops untargetability. You chase her down - you get stunned. {{champion:29}} - meet the best and only ranged AoE assassin in the game. Get ready to watch your team get melted from across the map in 2 seconds. ~~Support items ~~ - The support role is **LITERALLY **made to buff ADCs only. You can't go melee carry bot, you can't go mage bot etc. etc. ADCs are the only viable MAIN carries in this game, and that is a HUGE problem and a balancing issue. **LITERALLY EVERY CLASS REWORK NERFED EVERYONE TO THE GROUND (NOT ADCS DOE LOL) AND NOW WE HAVE A META WHERE COMPS ARE ENTIRELY BUILT AROUND ADCS BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE GOT NERFED. YET PEOPLE ON THE BOARDS ARE CRYING FOR MORE ORIANNA, SYNDRA AND JANNA NERFS. LMAO.**
> [{quoted}](name=LesVitesses,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YhEVffkE,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2017-08-26T20:45:12.913+0000) > > ADCs are the cancer of this game. Items getting nerfed because they abuse them. Riot doesn&#x27;t give a shit about nerfing items due to ADCs and forgetting all about their intended users. > > First of all ADCs need nerfs to their early game and 1v1 potential. They spike with a BF sword. They also solo tanks, assassins, bruisers and the likes. I actually don&#x27;t even engage on ADCs anymore because they will right click on me 2-3 times and I&#x27;m dead. > > On top of it all we literally have teams at LCS with the only damage dealer being an ADC. That should tell you something about how busted this class really is. 2-3 tanks to face tank for the ADC, and 1-2 support-style champs to be their butt buddies and boost their damage to even more insane levels. On top of that you have a shit ton of ADCs with mobility, survability, untargetability and the list goes on. {{champion:119}} is essentially a drain tank with {{item:3812}}. {{champion:498}} is pure cancer and not a viable target in team fights. You try to touch her and she pops untargetability. You chase her down - you get stunned. {{champion:29}} - meet the best and only ranged AoE assassin in the game. Get ready to watch your team get melted from across the map in 2 seconds. > > ~~Support items ~~ - The support role is **LITERALLY **made to buff ADCs only. You can&#x27;t go melee carry bot, you can&#x27;t go mage bot etc. etc. ADCs are the only viable MAIN carries in this game, and that is a HUGE problem and a balancing issue. > > **LITERALLY EVERY CLASS REWORK NERFED EVERYONE TO THE GROUND (NOT ADCS DOE LOL) AND NOW WE HAVE A META WHERE COMPS ARE ENTIRELY BUILT AROUND ADCS BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE GOT NERFED. YET PEOPLE ON THE BOARDS ARE CRYING FOR MORE ORIANNA, SYNDRA AND JANNA NERFS. LMAO.** Ur right man. I encourage you to go 1v1 an assassin/bruiser as ADC. Ur right man, ADCs are so strong that no assassin (Zed/Akali/Ekko/Fizz/Talon) can 1v1 you. Hell, I'm sure bruisers/divers can't 1v1 you either, you should DEFINITELY 1v1 a Darius/Renekton/Xin/Vi/Hecarim/Mundo. Xd yes yes go play adc and 1v1 them clearly they're so strong it's not like Renekton is gonna 100-0 you with cleaver and titanic nope. You should go do jt man I swear you'll gain elo.
: Don't forget that they're supposed to be immobile; but between essence reaver and phantom dancer, they'll outrun most anyone lacking a sudden gap-closer. Riot's blatant pampering of this class, has been ruining the game balance for years, steadily getting worse.
> [{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YtGo0JFm,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2017-08-26T16:53:24.663+0000) > > Don&#x27;t forget that they&#x27;re supposed to be immobile; but between essence reaver and phantom dancer, they&#x27;ll outrun most anyone lacking a sudden gap-closer. > > Riot&#x27;s blatant pampering of this class, has been ruining the game balance for years, steadily getting worse. Who said they were supposed to be immobile??? Juggernauts are supposed to be immobile not ADCs. If they were meant to be immobile then Vayne/Lucian/Old Graves/Tristana wouldn't have dashes/jumps
: Nah, that means tanks are actually tanky, asssasins can actually oneshot a squishy without getting clicked to death, supports help somebody other than adc, so juggernauts bot can be a thing (Darius adc from Rubik-sama, Morde adc from people playing Morde adc). Lifesteal is not broken because nobody does THAT much BPS (burst per second) as adcs. Heaven.
> [{quoted}](name=ZygfrydGamomg,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YtGo0JFm,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-25T19:46:20.952+0000) > > Nah, that means tanks are actually tanky, asssasins can actually oneshot a squishy without getting clicked to death, supports help somebody other than adc, so juggernauts bot can be a thing (Darius adc from Rubik-sama, Morde adc from people playing Morde adc). Lifesteal is not broken because nobody does THAT much BPS (burst per second) as adcs. Heaven. Assassins still suck because league is now 5 tanks cause why not no1 can kill them.
: Are we going to address that adcs are still significantly more bursty than asassins?
???? Katarina 1 shots the shit out of any ADC from gunblade until forever unless they have a support on them.
: > [{quoted}](name=TouchFluffyTaiI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1jLBvgI3,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2017-08-25T23:53:22.322+0000) > > Care to explain how, when you are suggesting a change that would benefit no class but your own? You said so yourself how lethality ADCs and crit ADCs do basically the same damage to squishies. The difference is in how effective they are against tanks. > > What other &#x27;good&#x27; would come from a change like this? Structure damage remains largely the same, objective damage largely the same, squishy damage largely the same (if not more with lethality). Not every champion can make use of lethality, so you would be essentially removing more than half of the class pool (unless implemented with other large scale changes that would have no guarantee of making things any better or worse). Proving my bias is your burden, accuser. Ignoring that stupid claim, I already explained that I believe crit is too strong in general and blows every other single multiplicative scaling stat out of the water. It's simply too good and frankly, given its pseudo random nature, id argue it's least healthy as a result. Any change to lethality for ADCs would require a retuning of both ADCs and lethality but I figured that was understood without it not needing to be mentioned. That was my mistake.
Lol. Saying that you have no bias is stupid and shows that don't know shit. Anyone's that's taken even basic psychology knows that EVERYONE has bias - significant amounts of it. It's important to understand your biases and account for them - not just say "I'm not biased/have little bias" because that makes you seem ignorant as shit.
: With a juggernaut comp you are looking to ace the enemy. Your win condition isnt a siege, its a full blown brawl, the place juggernauts excel. If anything the team support would be aimed at diving 5v5 instead of a slow siege, like a sivir/karma teamwide speedboost, or a taric/kayle invulnerability. The whole comp is about pushing your juggernaut down their throats and keeping them just alive enough to keep healing themselves.
So pretty much your ONLY win condition is to snowball so far out of control that you can straight up dive? Games would last 120 minutes because it'd be impossible to siege.
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skyskee008

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