: by positioning, you mean being under tower and having it take 0,13 seconds more than the first 0,13 seconds for him to kill you with his ult?
Get a Zhonyas, armor, GA, group with your team and stun him. It's not that hard.
: I'm sick of seeing pyke, akali and aatrox in every single game
mmmmmmmm keep whining nobody is listening... You can't just take out champions that people like LOL. You realize these champions aren't over-performing, right? https://u.gg/lol/champions/akali/build/ https://u.gg/lol/champions/aatrox/build https://u.gg/lol/champions/pyke/build The circle jerk continues... What else don't you like? Yasuo? Zed? Nobody is listening...
: This season feels so exhausting and boring to play in
I main Ahri but man that champion needs to be powered down...
: That feeling when you get shit on by a master tier player when you're gold.
LOL I played against a diamond the other day (I'm Gold 2). It gets pretty bad in ranked flex too.
l MrD l (NA)
: Im getting bored of playing vs assasins now ...
Assassins are garbage right now. Git gud nobody is listening to you.
: Can we please talk about how toxic Rengar is as a character
The counterplay is positioning and itemization.
: *Wants to play Braum for the funsies* "Lemme just ban someone who pokes the shit out of me while being extremely safe/does a million dmg" *Lux exists* *Vel Koz exists* *Pyke exists* *Xerath exists* *Zyra exists* *Brand exists* Oh wait, maybe I should ban some OP mid laners. *Yasuo exists* (Don't even tell me he's weak, his supposedly "bad early" means once he hits lvl 3, he can kill you if you just misstep a teeny bit) *Zed exists* *Katarina exists* *Fizz exists* *Mordekaiser exists* Well, shit!
Anatera (NA)
: It's meaningless to rattle off winrates if you don't even understand why people ban certain champs
Its so silly to try to make the "champion is annoying so change it" argument. Every champion is uncomfortable to play in certain contexts. You can't just say we need to change whichever champion you feel like a significant portion of the community doesn't enjoy playing against. That's not based on anything grounded.
: When will Riot admit that modern assassins are too forgiving?
More salty tanks mains on the boards. Don't you guys realize that nobody listens to you guys?
Rioter Comments
: Her E sounds truly BS, it should have a downside like putting the target into stasis
: ...Why does her R go *up* in cooldown?
Sorry, fixed. Made some other changes too.
Rioter Comments
: Do something about Fiora.
Stop. Nerf Garen first...
: > [{quoted}](name=touchmyraf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TIBPBPUX,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-24T17:00:23.238+0000) > > How many games do you think it should take? Like 10-20? I dunno. Just to be decent at the champ I mean.
Well I have maybe 30 games on Riven and I've only played her a few times in Ranked. I can still play her and be viable, but my other lane champs are MUCH better.
: Check their post history. Critmaster Garen has been here for a *long* time. At least 4 or 5 years, going by memory.
Yeah I understand. That’s my bad. Admitting when you’re wrong is what fosters healthy debate.
Incanti (EUNE)
: You probably shouldn’t talk about credibility when you are hardstuck in silver with over 600 games played.
> [{quoted}](name=Incanti,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TIBPBPUX,comment-id=000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-24T03:43:25.207+0000) > > You probably shouldn’t talk about credibility when you are hardstuck in silver with over 600 games played. Well I’ve only been playing for a year and I’ve been steadily climbing. Should be in Gold before next season. I think that 600 games gives me tremendous credibility. What do you think?
: It's fine if there is still room for mechanical improvement after 50+ games but it shouldn't be required for the champion to be merely decent. I think the champion should reach a decent level sooner and still have room for mechanical improvement after that point.
> [{quoted}](name=Khristophoros,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TIBPBPUX,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-08-24T02:12:58.568+0000) > > It's fine if there is still room for mechanical improvement after 50+ games but it shouldn't be required for the champion to be merely decent. I think the champion should reach a decent level sooner and still have room for mechanical improvement after that point. How many games do you think it should take?
: If you still lose to first time Garens after 50+ games on Riven that's on you bro
> [{quoted}](name=warpenguin555,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TIBPBPUX,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-08-24T03:53:44.254+0000) > > If you still lose to first time Garens after 50+ games on Riven that's on you bro Once again, I don’t play Riven I’m just using her as an example.
: Riven outscales Garen/Riven has a gapcloser /can stun/can engage/reengage/has more mobility/has a shield. Riven can vary combos which Garen cannot his Kit is binary if he charges with his q its up to you to do whatever you want. Once you get a hexdrinker and some lifesteal to fight you can 1v1 Garen at any time if you are not a monkey he has no sustain in a fight and can be outplayed because of his predictible/binary kit. -> You probably dont understand Riven's complex trading patterns and garens limitations very well.
> [{quoted}](name=Gewaltherrscher,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TIBPBPUX,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-08-24T10:59:20.034+0000) > > Riven outscales Garen/Riven has a gapcloser /can stun/can engage/reengage/has more mobility/has a shield. Riven can vary combos which Garen cannot his Kit is binary if he charges with his q its up to you to do whatever you want. Once you get a hexdrinker and some lifesteal to fight you can 1v1 Garen at any time if you are not a monkey he has no sustain in a fight and can be outplayed because of his predictible/binary kit. > > -> You probably dont understand Riven's complex trading patterns and garens limitations very well. If it’s so easy to 1v1 Garen and if Riven has all these advantages over Garen can someone please explain why Garen has a 54% winrate and Riven has a 50.5%? Not once has somebody acknowledged the facts I’ve presented at all...
: I think if a champion takes 50 games to get to a decent baseline it's a problem with THAT champion, not simpler champions. 50 games is a lot. You should be able to get to a decent point within like 10-20 imo. I don't think champions should require some micro intensive animation canceling shit (which isn't interactive with your opponent anyways) just to perform at their balanced baseline.
> [{quoted}](name=Khristophoros,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TIBPBPUX,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-08-23T20:14:37.591+0000) > > I think if a champion takes 50 games to get to a decent baseline it's a problem with THAT champion, not simpler champions. 50 games is a lot. You should be able to get to a decent point within like 10-20 imo. > > I don't think champions should require some micro intensive animation canceling shit (which isn't interactive with your opponent anyways) just to perform at their balanced baseline. Animation cancelling and difficult combos are what make a game challenging and fun. I just wish that the practice that goes into learning these champions was rewarded. {{item:3070}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TIBPBPUX,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-23T19:13:30.063+0000) > > im not just talking about macro play. im talking about entire builds down to runes and items and item build pathes and different playstiles of the same champion. > > do you actually know how many different ways there are to play garen? > > you can run resolve with grasp and {{item:3071}} into tanky teamcomps, or you can run conqueror > domination with predator and {{item:3078}} {{item:3142}} into squishier teams > domination with electrocute and {{item:3077}} into certain champion matchups > sorcery with phase rush and {{item:3751}} > inspiration with glacial augment and {{item:3800}} when your team lacks utility and needs a strong frontline > > > > without playing the champion before, can you just tell which of these playstiles makes sense in which situation and for your own teamcomp? > > can you as someone who picks up garen for the first time tell me the difference when its better to start {{item:1054}} and when to buy triple {{item:1006}} ? Once again, this is not Garen specific. Every other champion in the game has build variety. Difficult champions like Riven are no exception. Riven actually has a very diverse build path. For runes, she can take Electrocute, Conqueror, Grasp of the Undying, Aftershock, Unsealed Spellbook, and Summon Aery. For runes she can go for a lethality build by utilizing Yoummus or she can go a fighter build with Cleaver. If she needs waveclear she can rush a Hydra and if she needs MR she can rush a Maw. It is ridiculous to suggest that Garen is the only top lane champion that requires the user to build diversely. In fact, I think that Garen players don't actually build diversely at all. 88% of people who played Garen in the most recent patch took Grasp of the Undying as their primary rune. Where is the diversification there? Here are my sources: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Garen/Top/ https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Riven/Top/
> [{quoted}](name=touchmyraf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TIBPBPUX,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2018-08-23T23:13:13.505+0000) > > Once again, this is not Garen specific. Every other champion in the game has build variety. Difficult champions like Riven are no exception. Riven actually has a very diverse build path. For runes, she can take Electrocute, Conqueror, Grasp of the Undying, Aftershock, Unsealed Spellbook, and Summon Aery. For runes she can go for a lethality build by utilizing Yoummus or she can go a fighter build with Cleaver. If she needs waveclear she can rush a Hydra and if she needs MR she can rush a Maw. > > It is ridiculous to suggest that Garen is the only top lane champion that requires the user to build diversely. In fact, I think that Garen players don't actually build diversely at all. 88% of people who played Garen in the most recent patch took Grasp of the Undying as their primary rune. Where is the diversification there? > > Here are my sources: > https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Garen/Top/ > https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Riven/Top/ Also, I'd like to call into question the credibility of a level 12 Garen main...
: > [{quoted}](name=touchmyraf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TIBPBPUX,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-23T19:07:32.249+0000) > > Okay well that's not true... It takes the same amount of macro skill to play a champion like Riven as it does a champion like Garen. im not just talking about macro play. im talking about entire builds down to runes and items and item build pathes and different playstiles of the same champion. do you actually know how many different ways there are to play garen? you can run resolve with grasp and {{item:3071}} into tanky teamcomps, or you can run conqueror domination with predator and {{item:3078}} {{item:3142}} into squishier teams domination with electrocute and {{item:3077}} into certain champion matchups sorcery with phase rush and {{item:3751}} inspiration with glacial augment and {{item:3800}} when your team lacks utility and needs a strong frontline without playing the champion before, can you just tell which of these playstiles makes sense in which situation and for your own teamcomp? can you as someone who picks up garen for the first time tell me the difference when its better to start {{item:1054}} and when to buy triple {{item:1006}} ?
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TIBPBPUX,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-23T19:13:30.063+0000) > > im not just talking about macro play. im talking about entire builds down to runes and items and item build pathes and different playstiles of the same champion. > > do you actually know how many different ways there are to play garen? > > you can run resolve with grasp and {{item:3071}} into tanky teamcomps, or you can run conqueror > domination with predator and {{item:3078}} {{item:3142}} into squishier teams > domination with electrocute and {{item:3077}} into certain champion matchups > sorcery with phase rush and {{item:3751}} > inspiration with glacial augment and {{item:3800}} when your team lacks utility and needs a strong frontline > > > > without playing the champion before, can you just tell which of these playstiles makes sense in which situation and for your own teamcomp? > > can you as someone who picks up garen for the first time tell me the difference when its better to start {{item:1054}} and when to buy triple {{item:1006}} ? Once again, this is not Garen specific. Every other champion in the game has build variety. Difficult champions like Riven are no exception. Riven actually has a very diverse build path. For runes, she can take Electrocute, Conqueror, Grasp of the Undying, Aftershock, Unsealed Spellbook, and Summon Aery. For runes she can go for a lethality build by utilizing Yoummus or she can go a fighter build with Cleaver. If she needs waveclear she can rush a Hydra and if she needs MR she can rush a Maw. It is ridiculous to suggest that Garen is the only top lane champion that requires the user to build diversely. In fact, I think that Garen players don't actually build diversely at all. 88% of people who played Garen in the most recent patch took Grasp of the Undying as their primary rune. Where is the diversification there? Here are my sources: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Garen/Top/ https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Riven/Top/
: people just dont seem to understand that mechanical simple champions and mechanical complex champions have different forms of mastery. for mechanical complex champions it is usually reaction, muscle memory and practise in micromanagement. for mechanical simple champions, they are as easy to counter and straight forward to outplay, as they are to play themselves. we have to compensate with huge piles of game knowledge to be able to keep up with those champions that are built to have answers to every situation, who can change the direction of their plays mid fight and engage and disengage almost at will. while people who are playing mechanical complex champions train to make quick in the moment decisions, people who play mechanical simple chamions strategize and plan out fights in advance. of course, planning out item builds, strategizing and theocrafting arent as flashy and obvious as someone making a bigplay by hopping around the map a couple of times. so people mistake strategic champions for "braindead" because they dont realize how much game knowledge is involved in playing them without constantly be made a fool of by champions how have a 100 different ways to approach a situation, when you only have a hand full of ways. someone who plays {{champion:84}} or {{champion:39}} can play her the same way every game, because she has enough tools to fit into most teamcomps and to outplay most other champions. someone who plays {{champion:86}} has to change his item build and build pathes and entire playstile pretty much every game depending on his own team and the enemy team. if you dont believe me, check out riste who is a master tier garen 1 trick, and check out how many times he runs different runes and items from game to game, to create entirely different playstiles. just how much time he spends trying to come up with different builds and strategies against different matchups. heck, watch how many times fucking trick2g changes his entire items builds and playstiles from game to game on udyr.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TIBPBPUX,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-23T18:59:51.647+0000) > > people just dont seem to udnerstand that mechanical simple champions and mechanical complex champions have different forms of mastery. > > for mechanical complex champions it is usually reaction, muscle memory and practise in micromanagement. > > for mechanical simple champions, they are as easy to counter and straight forward to outplay, as they are to play themselves. we have to compesate with huge piles of game knowledge to be able to keep up with those champions that are built to have answers to every situation, who can change the direction of their plays mid fight and engage and disengage almost at will. > > while people who are playing mechanical complex champions train to make quick in the moment decisions, people who play mechanical simple chamions strategize, and plan out fights in advance. > > of course, planning out item builds, strategizing and theocrafting arent as flashy and obvious as someone making a bigplay by hopping around the map a couple of times. so people mistake strategic champions for "braindead" because they dont realize how much game knowledge is involved to play them withou constantly be made a fool of by champions how have a 100 different ways to approach a situation, when you only have a hand full. Okay well that's not true... It takes the same amount of macro skill to play a champion like Riven as it does a champion like Garen. People who play champions that require less micro-skill don't have some sort of macro burden on them that the rest of the playerbase doesn't. What I'm trying to emphasize is that in Plat+, where people who play Garen are seasoned Garen players and people who play Riven are seasoned Riven players the win rates are still skewed in Garen's favor...
: Okay, lemme start this with, I'm bad at the game. Look me up if you want, I don't personally mind but hear this, if you're actually decent at Riven, like you're telling us you are, you'll stomp 90% of your lane opponents if they're of equal rank. I've played Riven for years, watched thousands of hours of gameplay, watched boxbox cosplay Riven for science, etc. When I'm at my mechanical peak, i.e. haven't slacked off for 2 months to a year, beyond Renekton, Singed, Quinn, and Darius, there's no laner who could realistically go toe to toe with me because I knew the champ well enough for my level to beat anyone at or slightly above my skill range. Basically if you're a good Riven then you should chew most lane opponents then transition well into mid to late game. If youre average at Riven you can still do fairly decently but may lack in other areas like roaming or split pushing.
> [{quoted}](name=AnAggravatedPimp,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TIBPBPUX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-23T18:47:57.635+0000) > > Okay, lemme start this with, I'm bad at the game. Look me up if you want, I don't personally mind but hear this, if you're actually decent at Riven, like you're telling us you are, you'll stomp 90% of your lane opponents if they're of equal rank. > > I've played Riven for years, watched thousands of hours of gameplay, watched boxbox cosplay Riven for science, etc. When I'm at my mechanical peak, i.e. haven't slacked off for 2 months to a year, beyond Renekton, Singed, Quinn, and Darius, there's no laner who could realistically go toe to toe with me because I knew the champ well enough for my level to beat anyone at or slightly above my skill range. > > Basically if you're a good Riven then you should chew most lane opponents then transition well into mid to late game. If youre average at Riven you can still do fairly decently but may lack in other areas like roaming or split pushing. I'm not good at Riven, I was just using her as an example. You can see who I play if you op.gg me. I don't agree with the sentiment that if you're good at Riven you will stomp your lane. You won't. The evidence for that is the Plat+ win rate stat on Lolalytics. These players clearly aren't first timing Riven yet Garen still holds a win rate much greater than Riven's. I think its unfair that somebody who has spent hours on practice tool with a champion like Ryze can walk into solo queue and get absolutely dismantled by a first time Lux. Someone please tell me they see how unfair this is?
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=KnightsKemplar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tP3EzL6z,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-23T18:16:50.473+0000) > > I expect these are, as advertised, very unpopular. Especially the first two. the reason why theyre unpopular, is because his opinion is garbage. im not even talking about the garen nerf, or zoe. what really ticks me off is that anyone but an adc main could think the ardent meta was fun. it was THE worst meta to ever exist in this game. when i say ever, im talking from season 1 to 7 to now. this includes jungle metas with feral flare. honestly the ardent meta was worse than dynamic que. it went to the point where even some adc mains complained, because being practically worth the same as the entire rest of your team put too much pressure to carry on them. when the game was won, the overpowered adc merely did his job. when the game was lost, the entire fault was basically at the adc because the enemy adc was better.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tP3EzL6z,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-23T18:19:11.780+0000) > > the reason why theyre unpopular, is because his opinion is garbage. > > im not even talking about the garen nerf, or zoe. > > what really ticks me off is that anyone but an adc main could think the ardent meta was fun. it was THE worst meta to ever exist in this game. when i say ever, im talking from season 1 to 7 to now. > > it went to the point where even some adc mains complained, because being practically worth the same as the entire rest of your team put too much pressure to carry on them. when the game was one, the adc did his job. when the game was lost, the entire fault was basically at the adc because the enemy adc was better. Well that's just not true... ADC's may have to walk around and auto attack late game, but the real onus is on the rest of the team to protect him, threaten/zone the enemy ADC, and put the appropriate pressure on other parts of the map. What is your favorite meta?
Rioter Comments
: Remember that Ryze has an ultimate that's insanely strong in proplay and almost useless in solo q. That's his biggest strength in proplay being able to stealth baron/dragon teleport across the map with your team escape, engage it's a very flexible tool, but relies on teamplay and what is the weakest point of solo q players? Teamplay,
> [{quoted}](name=QmegaSquadVeigar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7liq77XU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-23T17:33:48.031+0000) > > Remember that Ryze has an ultimate that's insanely strong in proplay and almost useless in solo q. That's his biggest strength in proplay being able to stealth baron/dragon teleport across the map with your team escape, engage it's a very flexible tool, but relies on teamplay and what is the weakest point of solo q players? Teamplay, In solo queue you can still use realm warp selfishly to split a side lane or jump on the back line in a team fight. However, I agree. There definitely is a lack of team play in solo queue that can’t be ignored. If you watch an LCS/LCK/LPL game with Ryze he is utilized more for the point and click root and damage as opposed to his ultimate.
Rioter Comments

touchmyraf

Level 194 (NA)
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