Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: #Shocked
Support goes to another lane and immediately makes plays. Adc somehow magically plays smarter when 1v2 than they did 2v2 and slowly catches back up as the other team is forced to focus more of their attention on shutting down the mid and jg that support got fed. Everyone ends up avoiding becoming more toxic in the comments all game long and they win as a team. The best outcome to a bad start.
King Lego (EUNE)
Where can I buy Yo Momma champion? It sounds super op.{{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
: Buff our champs, stop nefting them
You should really try explaining a bit more clearly and offering some reasoning for you wanting this done. Otherwise it sounds like "wah, you nerf broken champ and now I can't win with champ when it's halfways decently balanced waaaah." No offense meant. Just telling you that's the way many on the boards will see it from experience reading and posting here for years.
GigglesO (NA)
: So When do we buff armor?
Adc's always think they need buffs. Most of them honestly don't. A few like ashe don't get nearly as much - with the champs and items these days - out of their kit's utility focus as they should and maybe deserve a bit of love. But if anything adc's need some re-tuning. They either get 1-shot, or they don't and can then dps down anyone and remain out of arm's reach of any melee that jumped on them if they get even 1 sec of peeling due to crit giving them higher in-combat movespeed than melee's have and melee's having already used their gapcloser to get to the adc. What adc's need is less powerful crit damage. No... hear me out adc's before you throw me to the stake and burn me. Less powerful crit means you don't have to rush 3+ crit items every match. Which means more room/flexibility to get a ga, a maw, or a lifesteal item earlier in your build. Which means more options to deal with enemies jumping on you. Combo that with returning melee's their rightful superior in-combat movespeed and you now have a strategic battle between melee and adc rather than a battle that is either a melee 1-shotting you with no counterplay or you not getting 1-shot and nearly-inevitably killing said melee before they ever have a fair chance of catching you again (due to their gapcloser being on cd until after they're killed). That's what adc's really need. Moreover, it would help diversify adc's because it wouldn't favor a certain group of adc's over the rest. You buff crit? Well now stuff like cait starts taking over. You buff bork? Vayne, lucian, etc. You make it more equally viable to have all sorts of 3 core item build rushes for adc's rather than just bork+cleaver+zeal item or stormrazor, rapidfire, ie etc. then you make it better for ALL adc's... not just ones that rush the 3 items fitting the build path that is buffed in a certain patch. There's a lot of other stuff to change too. Targeting certain overpowered bruisers and fighters, making tanks about cc and durability again while reducing their offensive power - especially sion. Things like that.
: Recent moment: I'm kayn jg, my team is getting snowballed on hard, we just lost a teamfight losing 3 for 1 about 28 minutes in and the enemy team go baron, I come around the back of the pit, no vision, E into the back pit wall at just the right time, smite baron for the steal and escape with my life, we then push down a bunch of turrets and eventually won in the comeback. Older moment, back in early season 6 when i was still trying to be an adc, Im Jinx getting beat up all game but farming up steadily, finally had {{item:3031}} {{item:3085}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3072}} and in the lategame teamfight i just popped off, rockets everywhere and before I knew it "triple kill quadra kill PENTA kill" I was HYPED (and the only one on my team left alive LOL) So being pumped up I solo pushed it down mid and on the 2nd nexus turret the overstay was complete and the enemy team respawned, killed me and won. Still will always remember b/c it was my 1st penta.
Sounds like you are a perfect gold elo adc to me. That's exactly what I'd expect my teammate to do in your situation.
N7 Liara (EUW)
: Old thread, but I really wanted to share with you guys one of my best memories from Old League. It was back in early season 3, and I had found a champion that resonated well with my playstyle. That champion in particular were Sona! {{champion:37}} Back then, it wasn't a problem playing champions in any lane or role. I went into the middle lane, laning against a Galio. At first I had a hard time dealing with him, due to his high MR and sustain. But after a few ganks from my jungler, the tides got turned into my favor, and the snowball started turning. I hit my mid-game powerspike and started racking up kills like no one's business. We closed out the game after I landed my first Pentakill, as Pentakill Sona! Another game, there was a Master Yi that were pretty fed, trying to gank me. Well let's just say he got instantly deleted from a single Q and passive proc (with Lich Bane).. Good times! Note that this was back when Sona still had 70% scaling on Q, and 80% on R. Also, Lich Bane had a 75% scaling on its proc
As a former support main, sona was always one of my favorites back then. Never came close to a penta though. I think double kill was the best for me.{{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}
VeXuM (NA)
: Hey Meddler :) have you guys thought about giving marksman a bit of base movement speed as one of the ways to help them out? Maybe adding more movement speed on zeal upgrades? I thought the latter could be a nice addition to help marksman outplay divers/assassins at times
Dude that is literally one of the worst things they could do. Their movespeed with crit items already lets them perma-kite melee champs that don't have a spammable 2 sec cd dash {{champion:157}} . They literally have more in-combat movespeed than melees. Melee's have higher base movespeed for a reason... so they can actually close the gap on a ranged champ in a reasonable timeframe and have a chance to kill the ranged champ. If anything... crit in-combat movespeed needs to be removed or NERFED. What adc's need is to not have to always rush 3+ crit items before being allowed to MAYBE build a defensive item like ga/maw/lifesteal. This can help them itemize to not get 1-shot by a burst mage, a bruiser, or an assassin. But the dps loss is currently too high for adc's to feel ok about building that because crit is simply too good in terms of the dps it offers compared to say a bt or maw. And so even if you might get good use out of not getting 1-shot by building said item, your dps will be so low that your whole team will have likely died to the enemy adc while you are still killing your 2nd target... leaving you 1v2 at best. This is the problem. Scale back the "adc kills anyone in 4 sec or less of dps". Lower the dps power of crit by doing so and thereby increase the value and viability of having other non-crit items as part of your 3 rush items. This decreases the potential to get 1-shot and gives adc's agency to kite enemies diving onto them. While you simultaneously nerf crit movespeed such that their opponents (those diving the adc) have a fair chance of catching and killing the adc... may the better player win - not merely the player that out-stats. You kite better than I dive? You survive and kill me. I dive better than you kite? I re-catch you and you die. That's the way it should be. Currently it is unfair for both parties... largely with a ticking timer in favor of the adc if they can just make the game last long enough.
Meddler (NA)
: Crit item adjustments sometime early next year. Don't have details yet, especially with a lot of folks helping out with All Stars this week. Some individual marksmen changes likely in 8.24b, others in 9.1 and/or 9.2.
So marksmen have been kinda overpowered for the past 2 years - not in every patch, but overall majority of them - compared with other roles. And yet there are weaknesses and points of frustration they have with which I sympathize. For one thing, they basically can't buy any survivability items (lifesteal, ga, hexdrinker) until the last 1-2 items of their build. This means that in solo queue especially, they can basically get flashed on and 1-shot by an enemy bruiser (like I play) much of mid game. However, the reverse must also be considered.... that if said bruiser doesn't 1-shot, even a single cc by an enemy is enough that the bruiser can never catch the adc again and kill them due to the crazy high damage of crit even without armor pen and due to the higher movespeed of the marksman because they have superior in-combat movespeed which should NEVER be a thing. Seriously... melee's have higher base movespeed for a reason - it's supposed to be a battle of can you poke/harass and kite out the melee and/or have team chain cc them (if teamfight) enough that you can kill them or will the melee close the gap fast enough that they have the remaining hp to overpower you once they've caught you. If your name isn't yasuo or irelia or akali, you probably don't have a low enough cd gapcloser to get onto the adc AGAIN if you've been peeled even for just 1 second. Ok, back to the adc though. The problem is actually that crit is TOO GOOD. I know, it sounds crazy, but hear me out. Adc's in pro play especially are basically tasked with killing 4.3 members of the enemy team with a mage mid killing the other 0.7 member. Because of this, max dps is required even if it leaves you no durability vs potential enemy burst or sustained damage. Moreover, what good is an ashe with a bt when cait does 150% or more of your damage per aa by building crit, outranges you, and kills you in 3 aa's even if you trade aa for aa and lifesteal off the damage you do to her. So to keep the fight at least close and give her side a reasonable chance of winning, the ashe can't build lifesteal instead of crit early on even if she were slightly ahead in laning phase. I'm not sure what the fix looks like other than that maybe you make non-crit damage more attractive earlier into the game by having it's damage more comparable to crit and/or it's defensive bonuses more valuable vs say... a syndra or fed zed/talon such that the tradeoff of non-crit vs crit isn't so high in the early game that adc's are forced to rush 3+ crit items. Along with this, the importance and power of other roles in doing damage - sustained or burst - should be better emphasized such that adc's don't solo carry that burden... something that would further enhance their ability to feel ok about not rushing 3 crit items. *Another thing to consider is if you buff early base stats of some adc's, you might ruin solo lanes mid and top for other champs... and see stuff like a higher magic resistance xayah rushing hexdrinker and being unkillable mid... forcing mages out of the business. Or you'll see vayne top with way too much power... it's bad enough to deal with as-is, but can currently be punished fairly easily with proper jg pressure; however, buff her early game too much and she'll win any 2v2 top. So that kind of approach should be taken with caution and keeping solo lanes in mind when you mess with base stats of adc's early in order to improve them for bot lane.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 7
This probably isn't the right spot, but I can't seem to find your recent akali post. Anyways, i wanted to offer a suggestion for you to consider. I think keeping the new akali would be nice - much as I can hate her and find her unfun to play against. I think the rework gives akali more options and makes for semi-healthier assassin mechanics in teamfights which is a spot where many assassins actually fail because they don't REALLY have a way in AND a way out. Zed does, akali does, but that's actually about it except for in the early game where talon can execute someone without needing his entire combo including ult. So the thing to do is NOT to lengthen the cd BETWEEN her shrouds like you guys tried. Instead, it is to lower the DURATION of shroud. Cut the duration say... by 1/3 or 1/2 but make it available slightly more often. So that current shroud uptime over the duration of 2 shrouds would be matched by shroud uptime when the duration is cut over that same time period. I.E. if akali has shroud 2x lasting 14 sec in a 30 sec period currently, she might instead be able to cast shroud 3x for a total of 14 sec in a 30 sec period... with each shroud having a shorter duration. The second thing to do with shroud is to adjust the re-stealth timer. Dodging tower shots and all is cool, but champs with targeted abilities and aa's cannot actually retaliate against her when she attacks from shroud because she re-stealths too fast... this is true even in pro play and hence why people played stuff like aatrox with aoe where they could still hit her even if she stealthed. If you could increase the re-stealth timer such that say a tf could land gold card when akali attacks from stealth as long as the tf has already locked in the card and has his mouse close to where akali is hiding but still keep re-stealth timer low enough that akali can dodge tower agro if she's skillful, I think that would be best. Speaking of tf... tf used to be able to hold gold card locked in for quite a bit longer. He had the duration of gold card AFTER he'd locked in gold/red/blue nerfed because it was too powerful of a zoning tool. Akali shroud is sort of a tf gold card in this regard. Hence why I feel nerfing the duration of a shroud rather than cd between shrouds is a better call and why I feel letting opponents have a reasonable chance of fighting back against akali when she attacks from shroud would be more effective changes that preserve an otherwise very good rework. Anyways, I sincerely hope those ideas will be considered by the team looking into akali and that it can help give you new options to consider rather than just axing another rework or nerfing.
Scrai (EUW)
: jax nerfed and still got a 53% winrate
Jax is a hyperscaling champion who SHOULD have had some of his early laning power removed because he can get through laning phase too easily for someone that's supposed to be needing to scale. Instead they slightly nerfed his scaling. Which means he still gets through laning phase just as easily and reaches hypercarry status. Shaving off a couple points of his FREE damage late game means next-to-nothing. He still out-duels pretty much everyone he would out-duel before. He might need a whole extra aa on squishies to kill them... an extra 4 on tanks. But that's not going to ruin his day or cost him anything much in most cases. It's like adding 0.1 armor scaling to malphite w at max rank. Sure it would affect his damage output somewhat, but he's still going to lose the matchups where he would lose, it won't affect his laning phase much if at all, and he will still be good at doing all the things he was useful for before without being significantly better at them that it likely changes the outcome of 99.999% of fights.
xAshur (NA)
: LP loss now double the LP gain
Maybe it's due to the new rank system. Like I was gold 5 to end last season. So I'd actually expect to be low/mid silver this season due to higher elo people being trickled down. How far down depends on what the percentages are weighted to be for each elo: iron, bronze, silver, gold, etc. Like silver and bronze had about 50% or more of players last season. Now I'd expect iron through maybe silver 4 or 3 to contain the same percent of players. Lower gold elo will probably be mid silver. Lower plat players will probably be gold 2 or higher this year. So it could be league's way of getting you bumped to your NEW correct elo faster. Also due to the new season and placements mmr is going to probably fluctuate fairly wildly until you have a solid number of games to establish it properly. The system can't tell off 2 games if you won 1 because you were good and one because of the smurf diamond jax carrying your whole team or if you won 2 off just playing slightly better than your opponent and your team working together better.
: >and that for that fight you need a {{item:3153}} Clearly this is not what he needed there. His issue wasnt his build, but the game space. He encounter a Sion before he completed his core build, with {{item:3031}} {{item:3072}} he would be able to fight him. But ennemy stomped and closed the game fast. Tanks items are cheaper than crit items (without taking in account how busted Sion is). >being "high elo" only demonstrates that u have insanely good mechanics,the will to abuse w/e is broken to climb, and the free time to spam ranked games. Hell no. they're enough exemple of players stucks in lower elo despite spending enough time playing this game and decent champ. I have some friends unable to even reach gold despite playing strong champ like {{champion:84}} {{champion:34}} {{champion:24}}. Mechanics is enough to reach gold but at some point you need game understanding if you want to reach high diams and so on. You just don't understand whats high rankers do better than you. >EVERY SINGLE PRO TEAM ( to my knowledge) has a COACH now this couch is a player that HAS THE GAME KNOWLEDGE, but NOT the mechanics. most of these coach have decent ranking when they play (Kkoma was diamond most of his time, now he's plat, LS is diamond, cv max the coach of GRF was a pro and high elo...). unless rare case if you can't reach plat, mechanics isnt your main issue. > it just means that the statistical average is that high elo players GENERALLY know more Its his point. 9 times on ten, the low elo wont know sh*t about the game. If someone want to get better at this game he'll ask someone with a better ranking than him. Would you ask to another gold how to get out of Gold ???
Mechanics alone may carry you to gold yes. Guess what else can basically solo carry you to gold? Game knowledge: micro, macro, champion, runes, itemization, etc. Knowing stuff, having the experience to react decisively, being able to call other people's bluffs, and being able to bluff yourself when you can't actually pull something off but you convince the enemy that you can. Of course you have friends who can't reach gold playing broken champions. But it's not just mechanics. Mechanics is a big part of that, but after a certain elo basically everyone has respectable mechanics and this is where mechanically complex champions begin to really shine if the player has a game knowledge. Stuff like riven. You don't see her succeed nor as many people complain about jax in very low elo because people just don't have the skill to play him halfways properly. However, the other half to this is game knowledge. Knowledge of how to build your champion to maximize damage potential while minimizing the ability to take fatal damage from opponents. Maximizing options such as splitpushing, teamfighting, skirmishing, objective taking. If you don't know how, you'll often screw yourself over or simply get minimum value out of this. Just look at the Glacier (diamond elo garen main) doing a video on the "new" (at the time) essence reaver jax build. Despite playing in lower elo so he could look good, he failed to realize (or just to execute) on the whole intended purpose of the item in his build. And therefore he won off mechanics alone rather than through game knowledge. If someone didn't have as much skill advantage as he did and such a good team, they wouldn't have won. But the reverse can also be true. It is far rarer to be sure... but still happens where you can win off game knowledge and shotcalling rather than micro mechanical skill. It's the team where a player calls to do baron while the other team which is winning heavily is 5-manning dragon and neglected to ward baron because they expect the enemy to hide at tower or rush to contest dragon. It's the team that exploits an overly-cocky fed bot lane and gets them to repeat tower dive and give multiple shutdowns to their team while the fed bot lane neglects to farm and falls behind in cs while also losing their kill gold advantage due to greed and pride. If 9/10 gold elo players don't know crap... then that means a full 10% of gold elo players DO know what they are saying. And honestly from browsing most diamond and plat streamers on twitch, most of them are quite frankly... horrible. Even plenty of higher elo streamers and YouTubers I simply cannot watch due to their poor game knowledge. They go in on obviously horrible plays (I'm seeing from their perspective - not no-fog-of-war) and int. They complain about being ganked 3x... dude I win my lane more than 50% of time while being 2v1'd for about 15 min straight early game and still have to carry feeding teammates to victory in most of my matches. Being ganked 3x early - including flashed on by jg at level 2 plus ignited? That's just a walk in the park. But they act like the game is an almost guaranteed loss. I watch people dance around for 20 min doing the same baron bait strategy both sides know is being done and therefore the side that is losing and stalling for eventual splitpush superiority doesn't need to play as respectfully to baron bait because the other team can't tank it and turn to fight afterwards due to how squishy they are and their only tank being the guy with temporary splitpush advantage. And so the side that could have done 3... 4 other things to abuse their lead instead regularly pisses it away until they auto-lose to splitpush or have to force a desperate engage when they're now behind in teamfight power and have lost the momentum. Seen this in the LCS promo matches before and called that crap 100%. They can do x, y, or z; however they don't want to blow flash or risk 1 person dying to set up game-winning teamfight, so they'll waste time for 20 min while the other team baits THEM along on a string because they KNOW this team won't do anything other than the same song and dance. And when that 20 min ends... the team that was behind will have built a lead due to scaling and team comps and hold all the cards. And while casters and fans continued for 20 min to wait for the decisive baron bait fight that would let the (at the time) winning team finish the game, I was waiting for the inevitable upset I saw coming and asking myself how the team's shotcaller and the casters could be so blind to what was going to happen. Bad game knowledge and shotcalling can exist at every elo. If I'd had skill to match my game knowledge and shotcalling? A different team would have promo'd to lcs. If I'd had the skill? Xmithie wouldn't have played jg ezreal in a crucial match 2 or so years ago and he might have made the quarter finals of worlds. If I'd been coach of Liquid this past season? First off, I would have tried to find an adc more compatible with the core of Pob, Xmithie, and Olleh. But secondly - assuming we still picked Doublelift - when liquid struggled in the summer what they needed to do was to bench DL. What? That's crazy - he carried them to summer championship. Yes. He did... and because they worried so much about winning NA summer and went with that strategy alone, they crippled their potential to grow and empower the rest of their team to step up and so they entered worlds with the same 1-dimensional strategy which was proven time and again to fail - with clg and honestly somewhat with tsm DL. I foresaw all this as being highly probably in SPRING split when they signed DL. I said if they didn't force Pob to play like his solo queue self on-stage and EMPOWER him to do so through repeated trials, failure, and still putting faith in him (they didn't; one or two fail = go back to DL solo carry even if DL failed just as much if not more than Pob) then Liquid would do exactly what they ended up doing in summer. But how would my strategy work any differently? Well, there is no GUARANTEE. But... we need look no further than Fnatic and their summer split benching Rekkles for part of the time to see what my strat COULD potentially have accomplished. And when you look at what that did for Fnatic, you just go wow. Yeah... wow. That's exactly what we MIGHT have said about Liquid had they valued lasting improvement and preparing their whole TEAM for worlds rather than fretting over NA summer championship crown. Then again... only C9 seems to really understand this much as I hate to admit it.
: > [{quoted}](name=woodvsmurph,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=1eNex19H,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-12-06T14:22:17.842+0000) > > Sorry, but actually you are missing the point... of both our posts while I perfectly understand the thought process behind yours and your broken vase comment. > > But here's the reason it doesn't apply. > 1. OP is 99.99% likely meme'ing to address how smurfs can harm solo queue integrity and not actually planning on doing what he said he would do. So chill. > 2. There's already tens of thousands of people destroying solo queue by doing exactly what OP is meme'ing about AND just as many if not more who are boosted. Boosted by friends. By playing on their brother or sister's account in ranked when they are a full tier or more lower - I've actually lost a game to this with such a player on my team confessing to this in chat... didn't get punished for it either. By buying an account that is far higher ranked than they could ever achieve. By paying someone to duo with them to inflate their winrate. By a boosting strat that works in lower elo for the temporary amount of time that this strat is not fixed/addressed by patches. > > So considering the tens of thousands (possibly higher) of players that are already boosted or smurfing and therefore ruining matches at all elo's for everyone else... one more would hardly result in the "smaller pieces" you describe. It would be a drop in the ocean. Thank you. You perfectly summarized my thought process. What people tend to not realize is even though the number of players playing this game may be high, there might actually be only around (vaguely approximating based on other popular online multiplayer) 20-60k players playing at peak hours depending upon the days, events and holidays. Even if only 1000people are playing in a different elo, a game consists of 10 players therefore, 9 other players are affected. And with the live player count vaguely 1 out of 4 games is already a rigged in terms of quality matchmaking. That is a huge number. IF 100 people are cheating he is already affecting 1000 players which would be 1 out of 12 games. If 500 are getting boosted they are already affecting 4000 people. At a certain hour that could be 1 out of 3 games. People are not helping by stomping people in elo lower than theirs. There is a learning curve for everyone in every elo at every game. You climb by getting a slightly better as you learn from your experiences and others. Recently i met this duo who queued up with together and one guy was diamond 1 in his actual account while the other had gamesense of a learning player but was around gold III because his diamond 1 duo's smurf account had 97% winrate on camille at around 100 games in high silver/gold. I also do not have problem with kids doing whatever, but content creators? Riot seriously? Atleast blizzard ensures that streamers are not visibly engaging in streaming events such as bronze to GM anymore and ban the streamer.
> [{quoted}](name=IamaSweetiePie,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=1eNex19H,comment-id=00000001000000000001,timestamp=2018-12-06T22:54:52.797+0000) > > Thank you. You perfectly summarized my thought process. What people tend to not realize is even though the number of players playing this game may be high, there might actually be only around (vaguely approximating based on other popular online multiplayer) 20-60k players playing at peak hours depending upon the days, events and holidays. Even if only 1000people are playing in a different elo, a game consists of 10 players therefore, 9 other players are affected. And with the live player count vaguely 1 out of 4 games is already a rigged in terms of quality matchmaking. That is a huge number. IF 100 people are cheating he is already affecting 1000 players which would be 1 out of 12 games. If 500 are getting boosted they are already affecting 4000 people. At a certain hour that could be 1 out of 3 games. > People are not helping by stomping people in elo lower than theirs. There is a learning curve for everyone in every elo at every game. You climb by getting a slightly better as you learn from your experiences and others. Recently i met this duo who queued up with together and one guy was diamond 1 in his actual account while the other had gamesense of a learning player but was around gold III because his diamond 1 duo's smurf account had 97% winrate on camille at around 100 games in high silver/gold. > I also do not have problem with kids doing whatever, but content creators? Riot seriously? Yes. And so you lose one game cuz the other team has smurf midlaner who gets 20 kills in laning phase and singlehandedly carries team to victory even though 4 of 5 players on your team (yourself included) deserved to win more than 4 of 5 players on the other team. Well now you and your 3 teammates (who also deserved win) have their mmr deflated from where it should be and in your next matches end up doing exactly what that lb did - albeit to a lesser extent. Which means some other poor players who might have won if not for having to face you due to you being underrated in mmr now also lose... perpetuating that problem down the line. But wait, it gets worse. All those people that won against you due to the lb go into their next match overrated in mmr. They end up underperforming due to having inflated mmr and they lose when they might have won if they'd had proper mmr rating. Which means their opponents may also have their mmr inflated. Which then can perpetuate that in the reverse of the way you and your teammates experienced - you and your opponents and their opponents the next game getting knocked down lower than they deserve due to under-rated mmr; your opponents from the lb game and their opponents after that and... being inflated to higher mmr. Sure that might be an exaggeration if it were just one match, but the thing is... it's never just one match in 100. It can be nearly every match some days. And while it evens out for these players eventually, it only does so after numerous games and this in itself results in the same type of flux for other players. Which in the end results in an ocean... with tides of inflated and deflated mmr values mixed with points in between where you are actually properly matched up with opponents of your caliber. But most people don't want to put that kind of thought into this... they'd prefer to let their favorite streamer or Riot do it for them. And the quality of thinking among the average player is going downhill here while those who do put thought into things are ridiculed so often. And players wonder why NA is weak region. Hmmm... put some critical thinking into what you say people.
: i agree, im not saying that many low elos player are great.. but thats just flat out... seesh whats term... profiling. just because a low elo have a higher chance to not know what they are talking about doesn't means NONE of them know what they are talking about. if we flip this on the high elo side.. sure we get some people like froggen and box box, who seem very unbiased in thier balance ideas yet people like tyler1 regardless of the fact that he have god like mechanics can be seen here complaining that "crit itemization" sucks when even a bronze 3 player could have told you that your not going to take down a armor hp attacking sion building like that and that for that fight you need a {{item:3153}} . and seeing as he is a champion that LITERALLY counter your exact build path.. if if you could kill him with those items it would prove that crit itemization in fact still OP. players like "hashinshin" are so blatantly biased toward top they ignore the the balance of their champs vs the balance of the rest of the map. being "high elo" only demonstrates that u have insanely good mechanics,the will to abuse w/e is broken to climb, and the free time to spam ranked games. and while u are certainly more likely to do much better if u have greater game knowledge, from what i hear from high elo people saying they get stupid morons teammates in plat and diamond... i really don't think you can consider their game knowledge "better" the average high elo player certainly likely know more than the average low elo people. and no one is going to question that. but a high elo people frequently spout shit about things that know nothing about. and i have seen many people down in low elo that have game knowledge that would make those high elo player look like trash, even though their mechanics might not be soo good. and if you still don't believe me.. EVERY SINGLE PRO TEAM ( to my knowledge) has a COACH now this couch is a player that HAS THE GAME KNOWLEDGE, but NOT the mechanics. just because statically more _often_ high elo player know more about the game does not mean "that _all_ high elo players know more about the game than low elo players" or that there arn't low elo players that know much more about the game than high elo players.. it just means that the statistical average is that high elo players GENERALLY know more
Sadly I can only give 1 upvote to this.{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
Rioter Comments
: >why does her W (Riposte) slow my attack speed by 50% even if she parries nothing? Why does Jax stun me if i never auto attacked him during his E? It helps her in 1v1s, giving her some way of dealing with incoming damage without out right stunning or rooting. Fiora lacks hard in team fights and makes up for it in 1v1s.
Sorry, but fiora sucking in teamfights is a lie for 2 reasons. First plain and simple it is wrong. She fairs nearly as well as many other champs and better than some. Like we could say she fares better in teamfights than a riven because it's easier for her to get off her burst if anyone combo's with her due to her simply needing to proc 4 vitals and get an easy kill plus massive healing to help keep her alive longer while riven requires much more work. Or how trynd can't teamfight compared to a fiora. Or how a renekton cannot match the damage threat of other bruisers and fighters in teamfights, yet he also fails to match the durability of tanks and sometimes other bruisers too. You can spec him for damage or for durability but either way he falls short on the end you spec him for compared with other champs and then falls completely flat on the end (dmg or durability) that you don't spec him for... and therefore his teamfight superiority to a fiora is laughably miniscule compared with the superiority of fiora in 1v1. Second off, fiora is weak in teamfights due to her greedy build. People over-spec her into damage and then wonder why she's so squishy that she can't teamfight well if the enemy team can focus her. It's no different from cleaver into full ad renekton. If you get focused, you pay the price for your damage heavy greedy build. Buld her a bit more durable and she's still going to beat 95% of champs in splitpushing AND she'll be s superior teamfighter to many bruisers in both damage and durability.
: Serious question about how I should play top lane
SRO and RTO on YouTube offer some great wave management and matchup specific guides. Beware though, they're renekton mains which makes the matchup specifics a bit different. As jax it's fine to farm under tower early, give up some pressure, and just scale. If you're new to toplane, it's often better to learn the basics of matchups and wave manipulation by playing easier champs. While the matchups change slightly if you're playing garen or darius vs playing jax, you can still understand and apply a champ's strengths and weaknesses to the new matchup. Ex: yas is very strong lvl 1 and 2 so you basically always let him push you in first. Vs yas, you try to pop his shield/passive first and THEN you can look for a combo. Jax actually has more burst than yas - especially once you get sheen - and should match his dps fairly well. An early tiamat to keep him shoved in and forced to clear minion waves or tank a ton of extra damage can be useful. Try do dodge back and forth to avoid his tornadoes... or you can just e,q onto him when he has them up so you trade cc and prevent him ulting off his knockup since he's stunned during this time due to your e. Vs darius you kinda look for quick trades and mostly save your q to hop on him or away when he throws out his q. This let's you dodge his outer part of his q so he doesn't get the healing and bleed stack. You can also pop e as you jump on him so you can stun him. After stunning... disengage asap. Never fight darius if he has multiple passive stacks on you... disengage immediately if he has say... 3 of 5 stacks. If you can hit 2 items on even terms with him, you should pretty easily beat him at that point I think.
: Teammates and Queuing System
Players have become more childish in many regards and very little is actually tolerated in chat these days... if it's not punished by ifs system, it still gets you muted and flamed by your teammates for anything less than gg, gj, or glhf. You offer a suggestion on how to better focus the correct targets next teamfight? Your bot calls you toxic and tells you to stfu noob. You calmly prove your point with evidence and tell your twitch to that maybe he needs to chill out? Your seemingly-reasonable midlaner all of a sudden tells you you're both toxic babies and getting reported. When I started playing years ago? People called you trash, idiot, noob, *())&&(Y^&(&, etc. and Riot did nothing to them. Whether they were actually right or not... they weren't punished for any of that. And dealing with the harass was just part of learning. I'm not condoning namecalling and needless bashing of teammates. But hey, if I repeatedly do very obviously bad plays, put myself in a suicidal situation over and over when you tell me NOT to do something (and I then go do it anyways) and then I flame you for not suiciding to save me from by stupidity... I'd back you up in telling me I'm being an idiot. Why? Because I am. If I'm too dumb to listen to polite advice, pings and tone-neutral chat communication to stop me from doing idiotic suicidal things over and over, then sad but true is that offensive stuff sometimes actually makes the point sink in. People can be whiny selfish babies who are spoiled and think they can get away with anything... until someone slaps them across the face and tells them that what they are doing is wrong. It might not be nice. It's not what the person slapping them WANTED to do in the first place, but it's for their own good. Better to give them a little pain now and wake them up to their terrible behavior so they can reform than to let them go on being a whiny brainless jackass their whole life. At least that's my take on the matter. Honestly it reminds me of a story this police officer told me. There was a first grader who started acting out in class one day and was throwing kids' class materials, knocking desks around, etc. And due to administration screwing over a previous teacher for stepping in in a scenario like that, all the teacher could do was get the rest of the class to the back of the classroom and do his best to shield the other students from things being thrown at them. Touch the kid to restrain him from trying to hurt others and that teacher could have been the second one in 2 years to be sued and down the drain. So the police were called because the principal couldn't restrain the kid either for the same reasons as the teacher. Well the officer came into the room after more than 15 min of the kid terrorizing the whole class and tried talking the kid down first. The kid kept refusing to listen, so eventually the officer had to put his hand on the kid's shoulder and march him out of the room and bring him home... with the kid's parent having to leave work early to go home and watch him. When the officer put his hand gently but firmly on the kid's shoulder to march him out of the room the kid feined being hurt and kept telling the officer that he wasn't allowed to lay a hand on him. That's exactly what so many childish players in this game are like. They know exactly what they can and can't get away with. And when somebody comes along and has enough of their behavior, grabs them by the shoulder, and tries to march them out of the room for the sake of all the other students? They scream bloody murder and play the victim. And sadly... too often the system rewards them at the expense of the rest of the class (teammates and opponents). I've said this for 2 years now that the system is going downhill for Riot. And people don't listen. Instead they call ME toxic for saying so. Well either Riot is going to learn to listen, or they're going to find themselves one day with only those who don't really care and will tolerate anything and the worst kind of toxic trolls like that first grader playing their game. And good luck staying running then.
: > [{quoted}](name=woodvsmurph,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=1eNex19H,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-12-04T20:43:39.338+0000) > > Kinda missing the point. You don't fix a broken vase by smashing it into ever smaller pieces. That accomplishes the opposite, much as the proposed action of the OP would.
> [{quoted}](name=oOBestEveNAOo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=1eNex19H,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-12-04T21:53:58.051+0000) > > Kinda missing the point. > > You don't fix a broken vase by smashing it into ever smaller pieces. That accomplishes the opposite, much as the proposed action of the OP would. Sorry, but actually you are missing the point... of both our posts while I perfectly understand the thought process behind yours and your broken vase comment. But here's the reason it doesn't apply. 1. OP is 99.99% likely meme'ing to address how smurfs can harm solo queue integrity and not actually planning on doing what he said he would do. So chill. 2. There's already tens of thousands of people destroying solo queue by doing exactly what OP is meme'ing about AND just as many if not more who are boosted. Boosted by friends. By playing on their brother or sister's account in ranked when they are a full tier or more lower - I've actually lost a game to this with such a player on my team confessing to this in chat... didn't get punished for it either. By buying an account that is far higher ranked than they could ever achieve. By paying someone to duo with them to inflate their winrate. By a boosting strat that works in lower elo for the temporary amount of time that this strat is not fixed/addressed by patches. So considering the tens of thousands (possibly higher) of players that are already boosted or smurfing and therefore ruining matches at all elo's for everyone else... one more would hardly result in the "smaller pieces" you describe. It would be a drop in the ocean.
: Tristana has AP scalings, but that doesn't make her damage magic damage. The vast majority of the damage she deals is with auto attacks and her E, which deal physical damage. She's not going to notice the extra 40 health she gets when W-ing onto the enemy minion wave, or the 0 health she gets when using it to escape like she's supposed to. The amount she'd gain from her ult also isn't worth the item purchase, seeing as it's used to end a fight, not continue it.
The guy asked why ez and trist were listed. He never asked if hybrid or ap was good on them - it is the standard ez build for awhile now btw. I merely answered why they were being discussed with hybrid champs. Also trist has ap scaling on 3 or her 4 abilities... just bonus ad scaling his higher percent on her w. Take context into account before you go replying to something that isn't even being discussed lol.
: Leona too OP?
{{champion:12}} more reliable engage, aoe knockup rather than single target stun, does just as much damage, more cc, and tankier with his ult, also offers some minor sustain {{champion:53}} no risk engage unlike leona who has to put herself majorly in harm's way to be useful. {{champion:63}} has cc, insane base damage, no risk combos due to long range {{champion:201}} just as tanky, good damage as long as you can proc his passive, more safety due to his ability to jump to allies, oh, and again... no risk engage via ranged q {{champion:9}} point-n-click cc rather than skillshot, ranged harass, sustain, no risk harass {{champion:40}} ranged harass, hyperscaling (no pressure to win lane unlike leona), powerful and multiple tools for disengage, some sustain {{champion:43}} strong harass, soft and hard cc, sustain via w, good mobility, and safety of range with no commitment required ability to harass opponents Need I go on? No. Because if you aren't able to see how wrong you are at this point, then saying more won't change that.
: DD isn't meta on Kai anymore. And spell vamp was much much worse than DD is. Also why did you list Tristana and Ezreal, what is their relevance to the DD argument at all?
Trist and ez have ap scalings. In fact trist at one point was supposed to be an ap adc or "apc". Also... if you read for gunblade and for death's dance they basically offer the same amount/level of healing so... how the heck is spell vamp much worse?{{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
Vekkna (NA)
: Kai'sa + Death's Dance...
: Why I can't play ADC
Played this game since season 2 or 3. Started as support because that's where the noobs went at the time and because people spent most of champ select shouting about whether it would be first pick or first call to determine roles - unlike now where we have a nice autofill system to help avoid us being at each other's throats so often before the game even begins. I can say without a doubt that it is FAR more common to have an adc with no clue how to play than a support with no clue how to play in bronze, silver, and gold elo. Adc's either tend to blindly auto-push the wave constantly and keep in perma-shoved in so as to invite the enemy jg and mid to camp them for easy kills, or they play overly passive and only last-hit when they should be abusing an advantage in laning phase before they get outscaled. The latter results in their support getting poked out and never being allowed to play agro or return damage onto opponents because the adc simply fails to punish with aa harass/poke like they properly should. The former results in either the adc or the support (or both) dying over and over and falling behind due to ganks. And when the support dies to save the adc from the bad situation the adc put him/herself in, the support gets blamed for being bad/getting caught even though they could have escaped at the cost of the adc's life and chose instead to protect their carry. Adc's don't tend to ward, or they use wards carelessly. Supports can't keep up enough vision alone 24/7 especially before they get sightstone support item quest completed. Not all supports are meant to babysit adc's. Some supports like leona aren't made so much for pealing as they are for engaging for their whole team. Support items are not always the best items for a support either. A leona with {{item:3800}} or {{item:3742}} is far tankier and more threatening to the enemy team than a leona with {{item:3109}} . And if you don't have a reliable dps champ that's worth putting knight's vow on, then it is better to not buy the item at all. And supports might be better off taking some cs in different situations. Maybe it's better to clear a wave and reset it by bouncing off tower before you get back to lane so you aren't overextended. Or maybe they're trimming it to set up a freeze. Or simply last-hitting minions when you aren't there. All those are valid reasons for them to take cs beyond simply stacking taragon's. I can't count how many times I've had adc's lecture me or constantly pinging me to back off when I'm literally 1v2 spoon feeding them advantages in lane. Or get my adc off to a 2/0/0 or 4/1/0 start only to have them play like a complete ape the second I leave lane, continually die stupidly when I'm walking back from base, and then never be in lane when I'm there. How many games I've been told to just leave because I'm bad or left because I realized how much of a waste it was to babysit for a crappy adc, then gone mid and snowball my midlaner in no time even if it's 2v2 vs enemy jg and mid. And kills don't mean everything friend. You can have amazing kda and still be costing your team the game through stupid play. If you aren't leveraging your advantage or your cs sucks or whatever, you are doing your team no good and just a walking shutdown for the enemy team. Rotations, map pressure, being in proper position AHEAD OF a teamfight rather than showing up late and taking all the credit for work others have done and paid the price for... that matters far more than mere kda. Not saying you are a bad adc or anything, but just giving you an outsider's perspective on some of the things other roles and players have to consider. The more you understand about what your teammates' goals and needs are, the better you will become as a player.
: how to counter against renekton? instead of me saying it needs to be nerfed
Ranged champs, but only if you know how to kite/disengage properly. Sion can fare ok vs him especially against a newer renekton player. Malphite... just play passive, hug tower and farm up. Pop your w when he engages. Jax and fiora if you are good with them. Darius too to a lesser extent. Mordekaiser. Morde is actually pretty damn strong vs renekton due to the shield he can build up and his q. Basically a key to remember is that renekton is a burst champion. If you can extend the fight after he has already used abilities, then you will win the trade most of the time. Stack armor early on. Even if you are not a champion who will build a ton of armor or normally rush it... stack armor. Renekton actually needs armor pen more than other bruisers and fighters in order to deal meaningful damage. Play for scaling. You still probably won't beat him early on unless you're playing a lane bully ranged champ, but you can go even. If you can go even and outscale, you've won.
: Excuse me but why the fuck does Janna need her legs?
right, let's reduce sexualization of female champions... by removing janna's legs lol
: Cuz the ladder needs even MORE people ruining it's integrity. That's totally the correct way to solve the problem of it's current integrity. Just remove any and all integrity from the system entirely and make it utter chaos. Chaos is always fair, right?
> [{quoted}](name=oOBestEveNAOo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=1eNex19H,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-04T20:14:22.825+0000) > > Cuz the ladder needs even MORE people ruining it's integrity. That's totally the correct way to solve the problem of it's current integrity. Just remove any and all integrity from the system entirely and make it utter chaos. Chaos is always fair, right? Sorry, but it already is. I'm a wood 5 division player who smurfs in gold and silver games. Half the people in gold are under-the-radar toxic and either intentional feeders and wintraders or boosted from low silver at best. And my analysis is far superior to that of your typical gold elo player. I've called multiple pro games against the odds and been correct. I've dissected team comps and pointed out flaws and win conditions that analysts failed to recognize during draft phase due to bias etc. I've had multiple builds and champion role swaps that I've come up with become meta and even seen in pro play FOR THE REASONS I chose to do it. That last part is key there. Anyone can be lucky, try a bunch of new stuff and have something work. Not everyone can theory craft for the right reasons and find their build is successful enough to become new meta though. Anyways, the point of that is to reinforce the accuracy and truthfulness of my comments in regards to boosted and/or intentional feeders and how frequent they are in ranked even without accounting for actual smurfs. So to argue this OP's decision to do challenger to bronze would break the integrity of ranked is complete bs. It's already sadly broken and has been for quite awhile. I've seen bronzies and silvers who deserve gold and golds who deserve bronze. I've seen plats and diamonds tilt harder, feed more, and do less while facing HALF the pressure I consistently face in laning phase and lose games while their teams do far more positive stuff during that time than my teams typically do. There's boosted player(s) in basically every match. And no... simply going 0/7/0 in lane doesn't make you boosted. I'm not so noob as to think kda determines if you are boosted or inting or not. Inting is intentionally making bad decisions over and over when you and everyone else around you knows it's the wrong decision but you do it anyways. Boosted is doing much the same thing only... you don't know better or you don't know what the better alternative is and how to execute it because you're just not experienced enough for the elo you are in. Both are toxic and kill the integrity of the game. Yet rather than address this, Riot just targets toxic chat that doesn't fly under the radar while letting everything else go. Then they wonder why people get toxic in chat. Hmmm... fix the integrity of ranked, fix a lot of the toxicity I think.
: I personally feel that Cait is head-and-shoulders above the rest in terms of how sexualized she feels. Her hot cop skin is sort of a cruel irony, because her entire design feels like she's more stripper than actual law enforcement.
A few of her skins could use fixing - cop one being one of them. But her base skin - aside from making it less pixelated due to being old - fits the theme of sophisticated/educated woman meets rough and tough woman who can totally take care of herself. A pretty well executed mixture of wild west woman meets educated eastern woman during the wild west era.
: Some thoughts on more dated female champions, from a girl
Some of these points I completely agree with. MF has some great design concepts, but the execution is definitely not focusing on her personality. Nidalee... yeah she's really excited and glad to share it with everyone... like some boards members have claimed neeko is - i actually pointed this out to a guy in his post complaining about neeko saying "neeko likes you" to every female champion. The janna quote? I always thought is was more of mocking. Like... that's what you THINK she's going to do, but instead you end up holding onto the mast of a ship by your fingertips as she sends a hurricane force wind gusting by you for a full minute instead and then collects your money and walks away with a smirk. Katarina would actually NOT be wearing more armor despite being on the frontlines because she's all about mobility. She couldn't dash and flip around if she were wearing garen or darius style heavy armor covering most of her body. Caitlynn I always thought of as a well done champion model for her persona. She's like a woman raised in high class from the east meets with the grit of a woman who has learned to protect herself in the wild west. Thus, her outfit is a modified version of what a high class eastern city girl would wear at the time - changed to give her more mobility. She's not throwing people to the ground to cuff them like vi... she's sitting back and sniping people like how jhin actually plays out in game. She's about SKILL over brute force; vi is kind of her opposite. Sure they could do some improvements to a few of her skins, but I actually think sophisticated wild west sheriff is the perfect suit for her base skin. Ashe's outfit is pretty cool, but it could be made more clear that she has some kind of base thermal layer under her hooded cloak. Having her with multi-layered clothing makes sense since she is from a cold environment.
: What I cannot do, going by your example, is go up to the other patron, scream at them, call them garbage, and tell them to gtfo. I have now broken the restaurant's rules and should be thrown out as well.
And neither did the customer who is getting punished for retaliation. You ignore communication as the actual toxic jerk player/customer. You die 7+ times doing THE SAME (that's key... mistakes happen, but we learn from the and don't do the SAME mistake over and over or it's no longer a mistake) over and over. Every time you blame your one specific teammate even though... they told and pinged you not to do it and had no way of helping you. You insult them for their kda and build even though they are doing better than everyone else on your team. You then walk into where you just saw 4 fed enemies as a squishy support, and flame your same teammate for not diving by himself into 5 fed enemies to save you from your stupidity after he spam pinged over your head to NOT go there. You sir are being an idiot at that point. And you probably need to hear it. Because the last 20+ min of saying nothing, using pings, or calmly and kindly explaining why what you are doing is a BAD idea clearly didn't get through to you. Moreover, saying you are BEING an idiot (something that can be changed if you change your gameplay - not "you are an idiot" which would imply permanence to the idiot status) is far less toxic than the 20+ min of perpetual harassment that you have shown to said player via your chat, your actions, and your constant attempts to get the rest of your team to join in ridiculing and blaming your teammate for literally everything. So again sir, if said new patron is telling said veteran patron they're going to bleep their mom, that they're fat and ugly, is throwing food at the veteran patron repeatedly despite being asked kindly to stop, the staff won't do anything to remove the new patron, the management makes excuses for the new patron's behavior despite them not being special needs, and the new patron randomly comes over and shoves their dirty fingers into the veteran patron's food and spits on it... then the veteran patron would appear completely justified to toss a cold drink in the face of the new patron and walk out. Moreover **you are missing THE ENTIRE POINT**. We aren't discussing if the veteran patron should be removed from the restaurant or not. We are discussing why in the Fjreljord the new patron ISN'T being removed and NOTHING is being done about their behavior. **To do nothing about that or even to make excuses for it... that is the issue being raised here.** I can guarantee you sir have not experienced the bs I have to anywhere near the same frequency or extremeness of harassment/abuse. You might just give up if something goes wrong or gets difficult. I however fight for something and/or someone I value/love/enjoy. No different from continuing to vote in elections even if the results don't always go the way you want - you still should try and HOPE for improvements. Because if you don't fight and you give up... who will fix what's wrong and broken in the world?
: > [{quoted}](name=DeusVult,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=REtoWqcq,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-11-30T03:47:22.336+0000) > > Jax isnt the problem > > its the items he uses > > every item is too good on him > > he has always been this way > > So let me close that Ouroboros and say that Jax is the problem, if every item is too good on him and this has always been the case, then it isnt the items that break the champ, but the champ being broken from the start Has jax always been broken??? Wow i must have missed those times , because people havent complained about jax until around 3-4 months ago... Because jax has ~~ALWAYS~~ been this late game hyper carry , but now its even stronger. Hes basically a melee carry and has always been this way , its just that now , he kills even faster while being tankier. and youre noticing it now because there is so much shit one shotting you now , that the only way to counter it , its do a lot of dmg yourself and stay alive. and jax can provide that. Jax is not the problem , its the fact that {{item:3508}} lets him have w, counter strike on like almost no cooldown. The fact that {{item:3053}} gives him ad , a FAT SHIELD , and a lot of health so he gets to last long in team fights. Compare his new build to the old one , {{item:3078}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3053}} {{item:1001}} (whatever you choose) {{item:3508}} {{item:3026}} , A lot of ad and sustain , while the old jax build was something like this {{item:3078}} {{item:3153}} {{item:3146}} {{item:1001}} (same thing){{item:3124}} {{item:3026}} , he would pop you like a balloon if he just sneezed on you , but he got deleted as well. This old build made him the best duelist in the game , but now with these new items , hes a better version of what he used to be. Plz , how is jax the problem , his kit has lasted this long because its effective and used to be overall balanced , but the new items make him a solo que monster.
Sorry but only very low elo players or "for reddit" players built him like you suggest he used to be built. There would be more hp/bruiser and tank items in the build to give him some durability. And jax was very solid before essence reaver with a perpetual lurking threat due to the combo of hyperscaling coupled with how strong counterstrike and passive makes him in laning phase. Oh... and then the fact q+w+sheen proc matches the burst a burst damage lane bully can put out on you while you out-dps them. And they can't trade back into you when you jump them due to you having e going to block their damage AND stun them so you can walk away before they can trade back. And jax's ult basically turns {{item:3053}} into {{item:3053}} + {{item:3082}} (exaggerating slightly perhaps). But this is why jax gets so much value out of bruiser items (hp+dmg). Essence reaver may take jax over the top, but he was already well and truly at the top without it.
DeusVult (NA)
: Jax isnt the problem its the items he uses every item is too good on him he has always been this way So let me close that Ouroboros and say that Jax is the problem, if every item is too good on him and this has always been the case, then it isnt the items that break the champ, but the champ being broken from the start
Jax isn't the problem it's that every item is too good on him? Dude that exactly proves it IS jax that is the problem. The guy gets more free stats in his kit than most champs in the game and yet has a very strong laning phase where you have to play overly agro and screw up to really get punished 1v1. If say renekton enjoyed the same late game ability to compete that jax had early while also having the advantage level early that a jax enjoys late... let's say I'd be 2 tiers higher (gold -> diamond). If the problem were the items... they'd make any champ broken. They dodn't though. They make JAX stupid op. To be fair... yeah essence reaver passive is a big part of the problem - and it makes both jax and renekton way stronger. But the reason jax is so op with it is because it essentially gives him perma-e. Which gives him aa immunity and 75% aoe damage reduction. Jax's counterstrike is pure insanity due to the stats it gives, that he can still aa and use other abilities while it's up, how low a cd it is even w/o essence, and the fact it stuns people in an aoe at the end of counterstrike or when jax re-activates it. Could you imagine garen w (damage reduction) giving an aoe stun after the damage reduction wore off? Could you imagine renekton w giving 75% aoe damage reduction and aa immunity for 4 sec after his stun on you wore off? That would be completely broken. But jax has this - and that's what makes him so strong even in laning phase. Then there's the fact he gets resistances for building damage. Or the fact his high base attack speed plus his passive gives him better synergy and more value out of attack speed items than other champs with lower base attack speed get out of the same items. And then there's the combo of spammable cheap mana cost w plus his 3rd hit passive of his ult giving him lots of extra dps, sheen/triforce proc spam, and essentially lets him match burst champs' (like renekton) burst damage early on in laning phase via sheen while out-dps'ing them. Which basically comes down to... the early game champ actually has to OUTPLAY early in order to really find windows to abuse jax in lane 1v1. If jax just plays safe, there's not much you can do to punish him without ganks and jax WILL outscale. If jax lost the aoe stun at the end of his e, that would open up far more chances to punish him and get off good trades. Now this doesn't mean jax is unbeatable in lane or can't be punished, but it does mean that he done messed up and his opponent took proper advantage of that... playing better than he did in order to punish him for that. Oh, and then there's the fact that he does heavy mixed damage early on which makes defensive itemization weaker vs him than it is vs other champs that deal mostly physical or mostly magic damage. And there's part of the problem with so many players. They don't have a clue what they're talking about or THINK critically before they say something. Google told me. Hell, you could see it with diamond (I think) elo YouTuber showing off jax build smurfing in silver. He had no clue why essence reaver jax was op, so he failed to make any use of it at all and won purely off superior skill than the other team had coupled with better teammates. Why is this good on jax? What are jax's strength's and weaknesses? What combo's are most effective vs opponent X? When should I fight them based on itemization, state of the lane (shoving, neutral, etc., jg intervention possibilities)?
: {{champion:24}} isnt the problem , the problem are the items he uses. Every item he builds is just so good on him , Jax has always been this way , this champion hasnt even been touched for a while..... Its just that the items he gets make him this amazing beast of a champion. His kit is fine , hell its REALLY OLD , and hes still relevant. Hes not overloaded like {{champion:84}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:39}} , the meta just really , REALLLLYYY suits him. conqueror + {{item:3078}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3508}} , make him amazing right now. As a die hard Jax player , i know hes strong , but its not his kit , its the items. Plz dont do anything else to jax because riot doesnt know how to balance items , i love this champ.
Jax's q gets on a crazy low cd. Jax's w offers actually crazy high burst damage for a very low cost (mana-wise) early game. Jax's e is what makes him strong early game along with the massive attack speed he gets from his passive. Several seconds where your opponent has 0 chance to fight back against you oh... and then it stuns you too. Imagine darius getting a 500hp shield for 5 sec level 1 if he lands his e on you. Or a renekton getting 200 armor for the next 4 sec after stunning you... in the early game with rank 1 w. How the heck do you trade into that? This is pretty close to the power jax has with his e in the early game. So uh... yeah jax's kit is the problem. His kit is what MAKES those items op. Essence reaver + jax's passive (attack speed) + attack speed from triforce + essence reaver = your ult gives you essentially eternal 75% aoe damage reduction and complete immunity to aa's for the duration of essence reaver because your e is always available. Sterak and titanic or any dmg plus hp item - jax also gets resistances from them. The equivalent would be like if darius's kit gave him free ad and attack speed for building say... randuin's omen or deadman's plate. Again... jax's kit is what makes the items op with him. Jax and garen get more free stats than most toplaners built into their kit. Free attack speed, nearly-free spammable w with high base damage and ability to proc sheen/triforce, percent aoe damage reduction and aa immunity, bonus resistances cuz you built damage, more free damage via ult 3rd hit passive. Percent max hp regen, true damage to villain, % damage reduction, percentage armor pen about equal to a cleaver, % missing hp execute. To be sure, essence is what takes him over the top as far as jax is concerned, but make no mistake even without it he's one of the most stacked champs in the game yet pays very little for that scaling compared to what he should pay for it in the laning phase... unless you're just bad compared to your lane opponent.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: Nerfing the late game of a Hypercarry while keeping his early game Insane
First off, that's a laughable nerf. 80% of player base will barely notice it in actual gameplay. Secondly, nerfing the late game SLIGHTLY (which this is) while buffing the weak early game with crit adc's was EXACTLY what they did this past season that got marksmen back in the game. They could have been far more aggressive... such as doubling the cd of counterstrike in the early game since that is jax's greatest source of power in early game coupled with the attack speed he gets from his passive. Losing a whopping 40 damage from every 3rd aa at lvl 16+ is hardly something to complain about. Or imagine doubling the cost of jax's w and cutting it's base damage in half. Or giving his q a much longer cd which would drastically change trading patterns in lane early game - especially vs someone like a darius. Aside from the other few hyperscaling toplaners like fiora, trynd, etc. the nerf won't affect jax's ability to win. Still the same exact survive lane, win game jax.{{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
: This is going to be a running theme for all of my replies on these boards, but here it is again: If something you're doing for entertainment (a video game) is causing you this much stress and anguish, then, my dude, you need to stop playing this game and find another conduit for entertainment. Think about yourself and how you choose to spend your time.
And here's the flip side of your argument put into everyday terms. If you go to your favorite restaurant to eat and all of a sudden after years of eating there on a monthly basis some jackass always ends up eating at the same time as you 1 table away... do you not have a right and reason to try to get management or employees to remove or deal with the jackass that is ruining your ability to enjoy a meal? Yes... you do. Any sane person would expect to do that if it's happening regularly and would expect management to deal with this person who is annoying and harassing you and other customers around them. Sure if nothing is done about it, you might find a new restaurant; however, it is much more logical to think that the disrespectful customer ruining everyone else's meal is the one who should be removed and have to find somewhere else to eat. This then is exactly the argument I and others are making... that Riot (the management) remove the low-key toxic intentional feeder and/or troll player (jackass customer). It only makes sense to remove those who are originally causing the problem first and foremost. Instead, they only target a player who gets fed up with such bs and retaliates (like a customer who gets sick of being shoved around, having insults thrown at them, and having their food messed with and so dumps a cup of soda on the offender in retaliation and walks out of the restaurant). Does management have a right to go after you for dumping soda on another customer? I suppose so. But not if they don't deal with the other customer's repeated inappropriate actions too. Moreover, if they'd dealt with that customer when you asked them to the previous 4 or whatever visits, you'd not have dumped the soda in the first place. While the fictional real-world example is absurd, it perfectly illustrates just how stupid it is that said jackass customer isn't being dealt with and how illogical it is that the customer who retaliated is punished while the original offender is left to enjoy the restaurant and ruin it for other customers too. It simply goes against all logic for Riot to handle things the way they do... just like in the fictional real-world example. And so it is no wonder that someone (like myself) would fight for what is right rather than simply give up and watch a once-good-thing die because of someone being a jackass.
Malak (NA)
: Tweet from MapleNectar - List of Nerfs for 8.24!
Dark harvest is basically another nuke ability for a champion that's only activated when you get them near execute range (low hp). So vs some champions it is nearly worthless because you'll never get them low enough to stack it in lane, while against others you will get tons of stacks and you might as well have a second leblanc combo off just your rune. The idea needs rework in my opinion. It shouldn't require getting enemies so low in order to get any stacks, and it shouldn't work as such a powerful execute. The old dark harvest did a better job in both these regards. It wasn't perfect, but it was a far sight better... while this one is either completely useless or is too good depending on matchups and player skill. Viktor top. I think the biggest thing is how spammable his q is. At pefect hexcore and rank 5 he can basically kite out 90% of melee toplaners and remain untouchable for the whole "fight" besides when they get on him from their initial gapcloser. Giving q a longer cd would make it so opponents could properly stick to him. Then again, we've been asking for the same thing in regards to adc's especially jhin for at least half a year and they haven't addressed that so... Jax. Jax is a hyperscaling toplaner with both great splitpush and teamfight potential. He gets more free stats in his kit than most champs and those stack pretty nicely with itemization too. Yet despite this, he's a very safe laner who can even bully hard in laning phase if given a slight advantage over an early game champion. The problem with jax is he's too good early due to his counterstrike. I think addressing some of his passive power via his passive or his ult's passive is an option. The other is to look into weakening the power of counterstrike early on. Either that, or if they don't address his power early they need to look at cutting back his scaling. Aatrox. I actually think he's in an ok spot right now, maybe even a little weak in some cases. Akali. I've said it before and I will say it again. The problem is her shroud. It's re-stealth timer needs to be increased to allow opponents the proper chance to fight back. I'd also recommend a much shorter duration for the shroud coupled with perhaps a lower cd to compensate such that it would be up about the same percentage of time but only via multiple uses of it. Leblanc. I think you're onto something with the chain length. We all know it's absurd. If it lands you basically have to dash and flash to avoid getting stunned by it. Forcing an lb to stay closer to you to land the second proc of her chain would give opponents more opportunities to fight back. I'm kinda torn with the champ though because she honestly can become very useless later into the game due to being easily caught by cc in a teamfight when she dashes in and getting blown up even if she's built pretty respectfully. I think she's a case of a champ that's a bit too skewed in power; overly strong early and underpowered in the way late game compared to what is healthy. I posted a few times about "net power curve" and power curves being too skewed awhile back. The best illustration of this was crit adc's before they made all the changes to help them out. Their net power was fine... but they were too weak early to reach their op late game. So Riot had to buff their early game while SLIGHTLY nerfing their late game in order to make them viable. I think lb is kinda the opposite. A bit too oppressive early in some cases, but falls off way too hard due to how dangerous it is for her to go in for a combo late game.
: lol if 98% of YOUR game has a flamer, whiner, inter, troller, griefer, 4 MAN'ED AFKS!?!?!????! (Fuk I almost shit my pants when I read this) Then I guess sir, the common denominator is quite obvious. {{sticker:sg-zephyr}}
You know... I relish the day you run into a 2 week period where your teammate(s) singlehandedly decide every match to be an auto-loss during laning phase alone while you are 2v1 or even 3v1 camped all laning phase to prevent you from having any say in the outcome of a match. When you've had 2 weeks straight of this while being flamed by your teammates for: dying (when you have better kda than them and are in a much tougher situation while getting 0 help from team) not teleporting to save them (from dying in a situation you typed and pinged them to avoid several times in the first place; and they die faster than you could tp anyways... and they don't place any wards for you to tp to nor are there minions in the area to tp to) your build... because it isn't exactly what THEY think you should build even though you are an expert on your champ and the build you have is both valid and perfectly suited to your purpose/goals that match "doing nothing" in a teamfight as you... 1v3 zoned off the 3 most fed enemies and through exhaust and chain cc manage to both outlive your teammates and deal more damage than the rest of them combined letting them die 3v4 because they charged in against fed enemies after you warned them NOT to force and that you were going to split... then one of them goes to split and gets picked off and it's your fault... then one of them goes to split 1v0 so they can afk farm and your 4 man can't hold a tower 4v5 without said person to help waveclear and you lose fight 4v5 and it's still your fault even though put in a similar scenario just 2 fights earlier only with your rolae and said person's role reversed it was somehow the splitpusher's fault (and should by that logic by their fault this time... not yours) This is the stupidity and toxicity of people in the game today. People used to have half a brain and learn to respect others that knew more than them. Now, saying anything other than gj or gg is flaming and will get you reported. Which leads to the "common denominator" of... either you are one of these people, or you're too ignorant or new to have met and been stuck playing with such people.{{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
Copic (NA)
: > retaliation to toxic people in my team Retaliation, meaning you're attacking back. 2 wrongs do not equal a right, nor does ending violence with violence. Taking a look at the laning phase of that match and knowing I'm a "toxic" player, what do you think I was saying and doing to our bot lane? Probably flaming the hell out of them right? Wrong. I said almost nothing to them. If anything I'd encourage them to just play defensive and remind them they don't have to win lane so there's no need to force plays when they are behind. Would I help them? Would I intentionally put myself in danger of dying to help THEM so that they might be able to catch up and eventually we can win teamfights? As a "toxic" player? No. But if you examine the match, I did exactly that. I gave of myself to help the team. When I split, I communicated with them, took the biggest risks and potential sacrifices upon myself, and split to benefit my TEAMMATES rather than myself - by pulling multiple enemies to me so my teammates could more safely farm up and stall, by splitting the enemy up and getting tp flanks to give my team fights we could win, and by answering the enemy splitpushers no one else on my team was equipped to deal with. I also engaged teamfights for my team and looked to protect them over chasing another kill for myself. I encouraged them for the little things they got right... even going equal in a teamfight was something I congratulated them for. This... from a "toxic" player according to Riot and many players. So what in the world is going on here? Why would a "toxic" player do that for their teammates? And why would he be far more encouraging to a bot lane that fed hella hard than most people are to anyone? For honor? Because he's reformed? No on both counts. The answer is quite simple. Some people have the unfortunate luck of having 1-4 trolls and/or intentional feeders on their team in nearly every match they play. Getting JUST ONE in a match is considered lucky. They may play many such matches a week for months on end and never say anything bad. They report the troll or intentional feeder and just move on. But facing that level of b.s. so regularly wears on a player. This is further exacerbated when... 1. the rest of their team sides with/defends the troll or int'er 2. their teammates low-key flame/harass them all or most of the game ("wish our team had a [toplaner, jungler, etc.], trash top, spam pinging build and saying it's bad, spam pinging tp or heal etc. when using the ability would have zero impact on the outcome of a fight, etc) 3. teammates ignore advice and communication (pings, etc.) and do the SAME bad play over and over (group suicide/inting essentially). 4. harass you for doing something, then go do the same thing themselves when it makes less sense strategically for them to attempt it, yet when their attempt fails it is still somehow blamed on you. Whereas your attempt only failed due to your teammates not holding up their end of the bargain. 5. Complain you splitpush and beg you to group and teamfight instead of being selfish. So you force a great 5v4 engage... only for your whole team to stand in aa range of the 4 enemies and watch you die 1v4. And/or you group and then they send someone else to deal with enemy splitpush and that person dies for it and your 4 man can't hold because you don't have the waveclear with said person having left to split. Yeah... there's a reason I wanted you with team (to waveclear) and let me split (to not lose splitpush). But all you to is accuse me of greeding for farm even when I explain (nicely) exactly why I need to be the one to split and that all you guys have to do is stall 4v4 or 4v3 by a tower. So if that's the treatment you're getting nearly every match week after week, and not a single person you report for legit trolling and/or inting is punished in any way by Riot... you can imagine it might be a bit frustrating. So people eventually reach a point where they've had too many games of this and crack. They say something mean... but honestly something the other person deserves to hear. If you've ever had a coworker who backstabs everyone and talks mad shit about them behind their backs and finally see them get their just dessert, then you'd probably be cheering on the person giving them what they deserve. Rather than going... that was kinda mean even if he/she deserved every bit of it. It would make no sense to punish the person teaching this coworker a lesson and let said coworker off scott free for all the lying, cheating, stealing, and backstabbing they did. Yet this is exactly how Riot is operating their punishment/reform system. Sure, maybe the person teaching a lesson should get a talking to for being a bit too mean about it... but: 1. They did it because the boss/company wasn't dealing with the problem despite numerous complaints having been leveled against the coworker. 2. The coworker completely deserved it based on their behavior and cumulatively did far worse than what was done to them. 3. The coworker does not deserve a pardon for all their horrible deeds simply because someone was finally mean back to them. That excuse is so overused and tiresome. It doesn't matter what was done to a flaming/inting/trolling player in retaliation. The person retaliating faces their own punishment for their own crimes. But those crimes shouldn't excuse what the flaming/inting/trolling player did and exempt them from punishment. Moreover, the "toxic" person who retaliates has only done so because of the 3 points I listed above - most importantly, the fact that Riot is refusing to do anything about such troll/inter/feeder players and the "toxic" person has lost patience and faith in Riot for a good reason - because their previous good behavior and valid reports have been ignored by Riot. Again, I stress... this in no way excuses the "toxic" player for their rude retaliation and they may face punishment. But this is only defensible by Riot if they also and foremost address the player(s) responsible for pushing said player to toxicity. And if said players were actually properly addressed by Riot, then most "toxic" players would have no reason to be toxic... because their teammates would be reasonable people they could tolerate and maybe even be kind to.
: On alt accounts I've did every possible thing I could to troll and never seen a punishment. I've had 2 perma bans and countless temp bans for language though. Buddy of mine got gold for the first time this season after years of trying.... no reward because he told someone to "stop being a jew." Honor 5 account 2 week ban for calling someone a jew into zero reward, guys never so much as had a chat restriction..... He doesn't play league anymore sadly :/ Duo'd with him since season 5. Now we play HoTS when he's online, lol.
I mean he should leave the racist comments out of it, but otherwise I'm in agreement. I've argued for much of 2 years now that intentional feeders and trolls need to face actual punishment. Bans or insta-demotions in ranked play to a rank appropriate to the skill they displayed that match for which they are being reported. If I play like a silver... I should be silver. Doesn't matter if I am in plat. Sure if it's literally a single game, you give people benefit of the doubt. But several matches even if they're say a week or two apart and one match at a time you can detect a pattern of trolling/inting. And that needs to be punished. Demoting such people would teach them a lesson. Either they won't care and lower elo players get someone of equal skill to play against, or they do care and they stop doing that crap because they have to earn their way back to plat or whatever elo they got demoted from. And sure people might complain because the guy could tryhard in silver or bronze and just 1v9 carry whenever they decide not to troll, but that's not much different from the start of the ranked season anyways. And if a player got demoted to silver twice for doing that kind of crap and then got all serious again and hard carried to wreck poor silver players, then they should get banned from ranked. Because lower elo doesn't deserve to put up with that crap either. 2 strikes... you're out policy. People excuse trolling and inting because "it's just one game". Let me tell you... it's not just one game. Or even one game here or there. It's one person this game, another the next game. In gold, I'm lucky if I get a match with only one person on my team trolling and/or inting. That is sad. To think that having one every game would be a GOOD week of lol. Good should be... well I ran into one troll this week... not only one this game unlike the last 3 games straight where I had 2+. People also excuse inting and trolling as "new" or "unlucky". No. B.S. You can tell the difference. I've played games where my team was 2/20/4 combined at 20 min and I was the only one with positive kda and winning despite 2v1 camp of my lane. And gone on to WIN that game decisively with all my teammates ending with positive kda and good teamwork. Why? They stopped doing the same bad plays over and over. They worked with their teammates, listened to my shotcalls (because they worked), and put the team ahead of every individual (myself included). My kda went way south, but I was more than happy to ruin my kda if it meant getting my teammates back in the game and us winning as a team. I even got them to stop flaming and blaming each other and focus on what we should be doing next. Me... an honor 0 "toxic" player. Yes... bet you weren't expecting that. It's amazing what so-called "toxic" players can do and how great of teammates they can be when they aren't consistently prevented from being able to enjoy a match due to low-key toxic teammates flaming, harassing, feeding, and trolling them at every point of the match. Give me bad teammates who aren't low-key toxic to me and who actually want to win and are willing to work together to do something other than run it down lane and I will show you one of the most positive helpful teammates you could ever ask for. Sadly, Riot doesn't listen to this. They refuse to admit... much less address the difference between poor players who aren't toxic and are willing to work with their team and improve vs players who troll, int, low-key harass and flame in order to ruin the game for others and get away with it by keeping the flame and harassment under the radar of Riot's system and excusing their poor play as "new" or "unlucky". I have all the patience in the world for the former and am more than happy to work with them. But when it's the latter and they are clearly out to ruin the game for everyone, I have zero tolerance. And it's really not that hard for an experienced or knowledgeable player to tell the difference between the two. Just hard for Riot to admit it and take action on the latter - seemingly because they don't care.
: I already read what you wrote. It's just bullshit. Yeah, no shit the game's designed so you can tackle a match-up by playing around your weaknesses. It's ALSO designed so you can think your way through your weaknesses by avoiding them or building against them. "Oh snap, Chipndip1 thinks Jax should auto-win against Darius because he bought an Essence Reaver!?!? WHAT?" Who the fuck said this? The last time I told you to state where I said "Strategic elements should be the primary/only factors that decide the game", you skirted that and started doing this psuedo-big boy talk. So, once again **where did I say someone should auto-win just by counter-building?** You think you're doing all this "smart talk" when you're really just talking out your filthiest crevice. And for what? For me to give a long form answer to your filthiest product coming out that crevice? No. News flash, guy: League doesn't have a ton of items that shut down champs excessively hard. Many items are generalist in nature, and many champions have answers to many situations, which is another element of strategic play in this game. You hyper-focusing on laning 1v1s and how much you think "OuTplAYiNg" is that more important than thinking ahead of your opponent in terms of build or champion drafting is just a testament to the overall knowledge you have of the game and bring to this conversation...which ain't much. Expected...still disappointed.
"being countered by picks/items" Read your title. And try showing some respect with your tone. You are literally offering nothing but insults and snide remarks while I offer an honest discussion with points that can be debated. You don't look at a song and just say... it's awful. You say... I don't like the lyrics because they make no sense or... the beat is just completely off... or I simply don't like that genre. And that's fine. That doesn't make the song bad or wrong, but it means it isn't for you. You've offered an actual explanation of WHY which can be discussed. You however fail to even offer something as simple as this when you write. You get to "it's awful" and that's as far as you make it for discussion. Jax should auto-win vs darius because of essence reaver according to chipndip1? I never wrote that. You are accusing me of writing that, but I never did. Proof you didn't read. You accuse me of claiming you say itemization can auto-win just by counter-building. But I never wrote that. Once again... you are failing to read and comprehend. Before you go leveling judgement, make sure you understand what you've read and what you are talking about. Why would jax win vs darius? Because of the 3 factors I mention in my original post to which you also allude. 1. skill. This is the most important factor in my opinion and should be the most important factor. When people say jax beats darius, they assume near-equal skill of the two players. If one is way better than the other, this changes the outcome dramatically. 2. champion v champion matchup. Jax is a counterpick to darius, and while darius can fare fine vs him early - all other things being equal - he gets outscaled in terms of champ kit. 3. Itemization. Jax simply makes better use of items/has better scaling off items. Jax can more easily get away with itemizing to 1v1 and even if darius itemizes completely for 1v1 jax, jax's superior dueling kit later into the game comes into effect and he can still beat the darius if he also itemizes equally for the 1v1 provided points 1 (skill) and 2 (champ kit in dueling) requirements are met. So as you can see, 3 factors must be in play for jax (or any champ) to beat darius (or any champ). All 3 have some level of influence. Your title is written in such a way that you appear to claim that simply because 2 of these 3 factors exist, people can't complain about lack of strategy. I thoroughly break down how simply having either or both of these two without the third (skill of player) playing a key role leads to unfun and unfair gameplay. I argue that this then in fact DOES give people the right to complain about lack of strategy despite the first 2 (counterpick, itemization) existing. To this you have offered no counter-argument. You have merely shouted that you disagree with me, leveled accusations against me making false claims about what I have written, and insulting me. I'm sorry if you don't understand what I'm writing, but there's really nothing more to be said here.
afmghost (NA)
: Riot disables League, global salt supply soars
Salt was also used to preserve meat back in the day. It is the "electrolytes" in Gatorade and Powerade. It helps your nerves send messages via sodium and potassium ion pumps so that you can move and react to your environment. Salt is life.
: > [{quoted}](name=woodvsmurph,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B0s6uEjb,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-11-24T07:31:01.017+0000) > > You have a few good ideas, but your execution is flawed. Aight, I'll entertain this. > However, they should not be the only or even necessarily primary determining factor in deciding the outcome. Where did I imply anything about how much anything should or shouldn't decide the game in this thread, when this thread is a commentary on community opinion? You made this long dissertation which basically sums up to: I want to just pick whatever the fuck I want and not have to worry about being wrong in my choices. Sure, it's a straw man, but it's pretty accurate to what this big old post says. You can't bitch about the game losing its strategic edge when you also complain about wanting even match-ups in every match-up. A strategic game becomes less so when you don't have to think about your options to win. That's how strategic games are and always will be. If you don't care, which you apparently don't, don't be a part of the crowd that wants Riot to make the game "More about strategy" because you're more concerned with the Tekken-styled 1v1s than you are about actual strategical input and making your choices based on what you see happening in the game. If you want to play on auto-pilot, go ahead, but be true to yourself.
I'm sorry a few paragraphs scare you. I guess that explains a lot. So I won't bother to write anything longer than your last reply. Instead I will simply say that a thoughtful review of what I wrote will prove my point to be anything but a straw man. You have attempted to turn it into that with your comments to be sure; however, anyone actually reading and comprehending anything I wrote will find that your argument is no more than a sorry attempt to use untruth in a manner similar to how I disproved your claim with ACTUAL truth. With that, there is nothing more to say in argument to you. Either you will actually read what I wrote, comprehend it, and accept; or you will stubbornly continue to bury your head and refuse to critically think about the topic.
: Daily reminder that Riot buffed other Keystones rather than nerfing Thunderlords Decree
The funny point? PTA proc does almost as much damage early game as a electrocute proc... only pta also buffs subsequent damage for a short duration and is on a much lower cd. There's a reason people didn't use much electrocute toplane this whole past year. Mid it's used because they don't generally have option to lane 3 aa's before throwing out rest of combo or as part of combo to make pta worth it.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: Does Neeko have no standards?
She knows nidalee somehow... and nid is pretty aggressive towards others in that department with the whole "it's mating season" thing. Nobody seemed to have a problem with that. Or Xayah Rakan interaction. Also she does note some dislikes towards certain females like the zyra and thorn thing. You don't have to like the champ. You don't have to like homosexuality or bisexuality, etc. or even like heterosexuality. But there's a difference between complaining about something overbearing which oppresses others and complaining just because you don't like an idea. I might not be in favor of homosexuality, but that doesn't mean I should go around hating people or thinking less of them for being homosexual. They're people. I'm a person. We all have things beyond just our sexuality that we like and dislike about each other. We should do our best to love people for who they are and get along with each other. That doesn't mean we have to ram a belief down another's throat... but we shouldn't write someone off either simply because they believe one thing differently from us.
Reksee (NA)
: I think demoting is better for a punishment. Because in ranks like bronze some laners will blame the jungle for EVERYTHING. I think a couple weeks of that would teach that kha to pay attention to lanes just like the eve was. Also, I feel sry for u. {{sticker:sg-soraka}}
Thanks. I agree about demoting being preferable. and the rest of this is mostly tl;dr for those who might read your post and wonder about my thoughts or want further explanation/clarification. Especially due to jg/laner disagreement and complaint posts I see very commonly on boards. I wrote this stressing the points I had with kha because I know it's a 2-sided coin with both junglers and laners having valid complaints about the other. That's why I stressed points like kha helping no one with any ganks rather than "kha didn't gank for me". Because the latter would be a point junglers can counter with stuff like "no openings" or "lane too far lost" which it wasn't in my case. Sometimes the jungler IS justified in not counter-ganking... but not in this case. And sometimes it is ok for jg to splitpush or soak a giant wave. But not in the middle of a crucial teamfight when they are already at the teamfight. Thanks for the support. I really appreciate it. I'm not so much angry for myself as I am frustrated that these people are out there ruining games for everyone while convincing people that it's their fault rather than said jungler's fault. Similarly with bad laners that just int and refuse to adjust their play... going 0/2/0 before their jg has a chance to complete first clear... without anyone ganking them too. And then they keep running it down lane and blaming jg for everything; those laners are no better than the kha from this match. I guess what I'm trying to say from this is that I have 2 hopes. First, that Riot start punishing these people preferably by demoting them. Second that people would understand better how to put TEAM over SELF and really THINK about what they are doing and how that affects others... not just themselves.
: No hate but you sound like a meme top laner haha.
That's because toplane is fast becoming the new support. The role everyone else on the team abuses and expects everything from while offering nothing to them in return. You want me to tp to dragon? Great, maybe don't leave me 1v2 or 1v3 all laning phase and refuse to punish your laners for roaming or help A LANE (any lane really - doesn't even have to be mine) to punish enemy jg for camping top. Otherwise even if I play more skillfully than my opponent I WILL be slowly put behind even if I never die. Where I could snowball, I will now go even. Where I could go even, I will fall behind. Where I would fall behind, I am now snowballed on. And the more you let something rot, the harder it becomes to salvage/recover. Where a gank at 6 min might have made all the difference... if you wait to 10 it might take 2. If you wait until 20, it may be too late. Toplane is everyone's tp slave. Toplane is supposed to solo frontline vs enemy team (because everyone else on team picks full squishy damage champs) and therefore they should build full tank regardless of what champ they pick or how much they NEED to be able to deal with enemy splitpush and may be the only one with the potential to do so... which generally requires more than 1 damage item. Toplaners are flamed for splitting... but everyone else is allowed to even if they leave in the middle of a teamfight to do so and have no way of rejoining the team. Toplaners have to somehow magically tank a fed leblanc, a fed brand support, and a fed vayne adc... while they've been 1v2 for the first 15 min of the game and are sitting on 1.5 items. Oh... and their teammates deal 0 damage... even to the 3/4 sunfire cape garen while 4 man focusing fire on him. But when you lose the 5v5 you so desperately wanted to force? Obviously toplaner's fault for not peeling enough and for building some damage. Even though he got exhausted... zoned 4 enemies, nearly killed the enemy adc, and outlived 3 of 4 teammates... it's somehow his fault team lost the fight. That is the story of toplaners this year in a nutshell. So yeah, you're right. I probably am a meme toplaner.
: You can't whine about "strategy" and "being countered by picks/items" at the same time
You have a few good ideas, but your execution is flawed. Champion choice and items play a factor in who is victorious in different situations and they should. But they should be just that... FACTORS. As in... data points which contribute to a the final outcome and influence it to a certain degree. However, they should not be the only or even necessarily primary determining factor in deciding the outcome. The primary factor should be a player's skill. Secondarily should be itemization and champions - with champions honestly being a distant 3rd assuming they are being played in their proper role. Putting priorities in this order creates the greatest emphasis on actual skill and strategy and leads to the most rewarding/fun gameplay possible. But... in rock paper scissors, you blindly pick and win or lose based on which of the 3 you picked. Isn't that like champ select and therefore champ choice being the primary factor perfectly ok? No. In rock paper scissors, it is fine for your blind pick to determine the outcome because the other person must also blindly pick and so you are measuring your reasoning/deductive or pure chance skills (depending on if best of 1 or several matches) rather than determining who is the best "rock" or "scissors" player. Whereas in league you are essentially determining who is the best rock player and oh... they also have to hope 4 other people on their team are also the best "rock" players too. You see... one person has an innate advantage of counter-pick in league. So making champion counter-picking the PRIMARY factor in the outcome of a match leaves one side at an innate disadvantage. This can be somewhat overcome with team coordination and pre-planning in champ select, but it still exists. So there's fallacy 1 destroyed - champion select is not in fact true strategy which can/should be used as a PRIMARY determining factor in the outcome of a lol match. It can play a part, but should not be the MAIN part. Next let's tackle itemization. So the predictable argument here in your favor goes something like... a darius top building full attack speed shouldn't beat a fiora top building standard items. To which I'd largely say... yes. Provided skill matchup is anywhere close to equal, the darius might cheese a kill or two early, but then get wrecked by fiora and should lose all subsequent 1v1's after a certain point... probably 2-3 items. But now, I offer you the flip side of the coin to that type of scenario. I'm playing jax and I built essence reaver cuz it's op on him. I'm vs darius. Now if I play my cards right, I outscale at 2+ items and can beat him pretty easily... snowballing myself ahead and becoming unbeatable. But let's say I don't understand the purpose of essence reaver so I essentially waste the passive of the item - which is what makes it so good for jax (keeping his e up non-stop if you pop ult before using e). I also fail to land my stuns on darius, waste my empowered aa's on minions most of the time, have poor mana usage, and never dodge a single darius q... so he heals every time he uses q. In that type of scenario the jax should lose even though he is jax (who beats darius; counterpick - which we destroyed in rock paper scissors scenario) and even though I have better 1v1 items. Arguing jax should lose here is no different than arguing that the darius should lose to the fiora we talked about earlier. So if we look at that last discovery closely... we realize that what we WANT as the ultimate determining factor (the PRIMARY factor/data points) is... skill. Skill in 1v1 micro and macro. Skill in teamfights and skirmishes. Actual knowledge and tactics which a player uses and the skill and speed with which they input their desires into the keyboard and mouse to affect what their character does onscreen. The decisions they make about pushing or freezing... retreating, grouping, splitting, rotating... etc. This is what should be the primary determining factor and therefore, people CAN BE (not always are... but can be) 100% validated in complaining about strategy while simultaneously criticizing counterpicks and itemization. What they are really complaining about (if it is a valid complaint) is that itemization or champion select has overtaken true skill and in-match strategy as the primary determining factor. I.E. "I win because I'm playing jax" or "I win because I have spectre's cowl" regardless of how poorly I play compared to my opponent(s). And if that is indeed the reason for them complaining, then they are indeed justified in doing so. Because again... this isn't rock paper scissors or the lottery. This is league and it is supposed to be about the best individuals and the best teamwork determining the outcome.
: > [{quoted}](name=woodvsmurph,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qxAGoVWW,comment-id=0021,timestamp=2018-11-23T21:29:35.242+0000) > > I'd have to say I really noticed the downward trend - there's still a few things they do right/make an honest attempt at "fixing" - started with the juggernaut rework. As a toplane main who used to main support, I will fully admit that some champs got stupidly overtuned (mostly darius) that patch. To me it was like after that whole rework session, the balance team decided it was ok to leave certain champs and/or classes of champs in a class above all the rest. > > To clarify the difference - jax might counter darius if played properly and so played equally well at higher elo, the jax will win 1v1's after very early game unless darius got fed and snowballed on jax very early. This is balanced though because both sides have a chance and both sides require skill and proper timing of when they use abilities to with the matchup. Versus... overtuned/broken/whatever - if jax can waste counterstrike, never use his w for fighting darius but only for farming minions, build sub-optimally for fighting darius while darius fully commits to strongest 1v1 (vs jax) build, and jax still wins while darius plays perfectly and hits his outer q every time etc. etc.... then there is a lack of balance between jax and darius. > > To me, the balance team - albeit often less extreme than the theoretical example of jax vs darius I provided - has rather consistently created such imbalances in certain champs or even classes of champs (like adc meta last year you described, or the lethality meta, etc.). Worse, it is obvious that they do this INTENTIONALLY as things are dismissed no matter how valid the argument for something needing re-tuning, or they'll be left for 5+ patches when a simple hotfix could be done within the current patch to address the issue if they really cared about fixing it. And then there's the fact that after X gets nerfed, they overtune Y to replace X. Rather than go... Y is doing fine right now and we "fixed" X (finally), they go... we need to replace re-tuned/no-longer-over-buffed X with a new broken champ and I think Y fits nicely. Let's give Y a "random" overbuff and make up some explanation to appease the masses even though half of them will see through it. > > When skill is the primary factor and every role has an important impact throughout the whole game (early/mid/late)... that is what most people want I believe. That is definitely what I want. Sure some may play a bigger factor at certain points in the game due to scaling or role (renekton early/mid, jax late; jg early especially); however, each can play a key role throughout. And their advantages they earn can be effectively leveraged by themselves and their teammates to garner more advantages for other roles on their team. Thereby, the renekton winning lane turns it into mid game dragon control and a splitpush advantage that his team can leverage into 4v3's elsewhere on the map while he 1v2's. Or the jax that went even in lane begins to gain splitpush advantage - turning that into splitpush advantage and towers for his team coupled with tp flanks if he forces the enemy laner to clear a giant wave under tower or just killed them recently. When skill comes into play with a BIGGER influence than how meta or overtuned your champ is in the given patch, that is when league is at its most fun. yeah there are plnety of things riot does right.. but very few of them are related to balance. i mean sure they from time to time address champions that are strong. but the fact of the matter is they BLATANTLY IGNORE champion that EVERYONE knows is OP. in season 6.. they blatantly ignored everyone who said dynamic que was ruining the game. we never did get 5v5s back.. all we got was "ranked flex" which is not remotely the same. now they are pushing "clash" which is pretty much the exact same thing they took away.. our actaul competitive 5v5's when they introduced dynamic que. i mean there do some good things. but u dont get credit for doing good things when you completely ruin 5 other things at the same time thats what was soo good about 8.7.. they made ONLY improvements, then after that they made horrific changes time and time again 8.7 was the last time {{champion:39}} was balanced 8.9 was the last time jungle was balanced riot takes once step forward and three steps back. and I'm not going to praise them for their 1 step forward if they keep on going a net negative even the _music_ team has gotten worse "legends never die" was AMAZING. "rise" was pretty cringy" and THIS? is like swimming through a pool of vomit...
I know I wrote an essay friend, but you didn't write much less lol. If you read past my first statement you're replying to... you'll see I am in agreement with what you said. 1 thing fixed... at least one new thing INTENTIONALLY made broken (often more than one) to compensate for them fixing something. Just in case you missed it in the last post.{{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
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