Rioter Comments
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: Broken zed was 3/0 after laning phase
Yeah sure... A zed no longer needs his ultimate to proc to kill majority of squishiest Ignite+aa+q+w+Proc Pretty much can kill majority of squishy champs
: is this reasonable for 2 minute 40 seconds into the game?
This is the problem with most immobile champs You gotta play like a p****** all game. The second you see an enemy, you have to be like a full screen away. They can literally burst you with from 70-80% of your HP despite using abilities to reach you. It's NUTS
Anin777 (EUW)
: Yes, this is possible. I mean it happens when people play Shen. And if that happens, good. But let me throw two more scenarios. What if I go bot and get nothing? Or worse end up dying? That's lane done. The problem with TP is that it's a high-risk ability because you have to think about when to use/hold it. This decision used to be easier when it had reduced cd when you TP on a minion and it had a wayy lower CD. But now, it's not. Ignite has more impact early and like it or not, early game matters a lot. Your scenario happens like, what, every 5 games? Mine probably happens every 2/3 games (anecdote). I'm not arguing that TP is a bad spell. I'm just saying it's not as good as ignite atm.
> [{quoted}](name=Anin777,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=95cbGOuF,comment-id=0005000200000000,timestamp=2018-08-10T08:38:59.623+0000) > > Yes, this is possible. I mean it happens when people play Shen. And if that happens, good. But let me throw two more scenarios. What if I go bot and get nothing? Or worse end up dying? That's lane done. The problem with TP is that it's a high-risk ability because you have to think about when to use/hold it. This decision used to be easier when it had reduced cd when you TP on a minion and it had a wayy lower CD. But now, it's not. Ignite has more impact early and like it or not, early game matters a lot. Your scenario happens like, what, every 5 games? Mine probably happens every 2/3 games (anecdote). I'm not arguing that TP is a bad spell. I'm just saying it's not as good as ignite atm. That'a true i can agree with that The issue with ignite? You can also say that if you misuse ignite and don't get the kill, your opponent will come back to lane with full HP/items to win lane. While I agree Ignite has more impact early, i do think TP has a much bigger post laning phase.
Anin777 (EUW)
: I'm sorry but your assessment is poor. I miss, what, 100 gold? However I stand to gain 400 or 300g for getting a kill on the enemy laner. Not to mention my ignite comes back faster than your TP meaning I can kill you again and get further ahead. This is an early game meta boy. If you win early, chances are you'll win. TP offers nothing atm. Think of this scenario. You pick TP and enemy picks ignite. You get poked out of lane and TP back in. Enemy jgl ganks and now you're low and have to back again. Who's losing? Think.
> [{quoted}](name=Anin777,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=95cbGOuF,comment-id=00050002,timestamp=2018-08-09T20:27:42.091+0000) > > I'm sorry but your assessment is poor. I miss, what, 100 gold? However I stand to gain 400 or 300g for getting a kill on the enemy laner. Not to mention my ignite comes back faster than your TP meaning I can kill you again and get further ahead. This is an early game meta boy. If you win early, chances are you'll win. TP offers nothing atm. > > Think of this scenario. You pick TP and enemy picks ignite. You get poked out of lane and TP back in. Enemy jgl ganks and now you're low and have to back again. Who's losing? Think. One is one scenario How about other scenarios? Where you (with TP) roam bot lane to get your bot lane double kill, towers and possibly a dragon? In that scenario, TP becomes much more effective and superior to ignite. The question is, how often does one scenario happen over the other Personally, with Tanks being so weak, it means everyone is playing bruisers or assassins. It means there is higher chance of ignite being taken. Once(hopefully) tanks are buffed, you will see Nauts and other tanks going top, wave clearing, and roaming with TP. Yes, these guys will get killed in top lane to dives or champions that take ignite
: I don't see why people keep complaining about game length. Your ranked average time for the past 20 games has been 32 minutes. Removing the longest and shortest match from that data drops it to a 31.75 minute average. Removing the next longest and shortest brings you to a 31.79 minute average. You've had 11 games longer than 30 minutes, and only 4 games shorter than 25 minutes, with only 1 ending before 20 minutes. -------------- "Meta breaking"/"What variety" Quite the contrary to the "no variety" statement you made in your post, in your past 20 ranked solo games you've seen 85 unique champions out of a total of 142 champions. The meta breaking has only changed forms, now we only ever hear about it when it's overbearing like AP Trynd. I have "meta broken" for the past 2 years basically, playing as jungle Taric, jungle (old) Aatrox, jungle Tahm, and I'm currently learning jungle (new) Aatrox. Very rarely do I get people who flame in champ select, it's only if I have a bad game that they get upset. ------------- Tl;dr - I think you're blowing things out of proportion and pining for the olden days for no real reason Edit: And food for thought, the last time the game had only 85 champions was in October 2011, so your past 20 games over a period of 7 days has had as much diversity of league of legends had in the whole game in 2011.
> [{quoted}](name=HardstuckBraumze,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ydLO9yBU,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-08-09T20:30:07.906+0000) > > I don't see why people keep complaining about game length. Your ranked average time for the past 20 games has been 32 minutes. > > Removing the longest and shortest match from that data drops it to a 31.75 minute average. > > Removing the next longest and shortest brings you to a 31.79 minute average. > > You've had 11 games longer than 30 minutes, and only 4 games shorter than 25 minutes, with only 1 ending before 20 minutes. > -------------- > "Meta breaking"/"What variety" > > Quite the contrary to the "no variety" statement you made in your post, in your past 20 ranked solo games you've seen 85 unique champions out of a total of 142 champions. The meta breaking has only changed forms, now we only ever hear about it when it's overbearing like AP Trynd. > > I have "meta broken" for the past 2 years basically, playing as jungle Taric, jungle (old) Aatrox, jungle Tahm, and I'm currently learning jungle (new) Aatrox. Very rarely do I get people who flame in champ select, it's only if I have a bad game that they get upset. > ------------- > Tl;dr - I think you're blowing things out of proportion and pining for the olden days for no real reason > > Edit: And food for thought, the last time the game had only 85 champions was in October 2011, so your past 20 games over a period of 7 days has had as much diversity of league of legends had in the whole game in 2011. Congrats! Too bad oriole won’t read what you wrote Some people in this forum reply like a hive mind. My only issue is that despite seeing 85 unique champions in 20 games, there are a selected few champions that are almost in every game. It’s like people who try to site how many different champions were played in pro play every year but they always neglect the number of time it has happened We saw ramnus, wukong, teemo one time. Meantime, you have Sej/trundle/Kindred in nearly every game. Hence people feel like it’s not diverse enough. Solo queue has its own selected few champions who constantly get picked. 2 pathed who, Ez, Lucian, and Kai Sai were at picked 85%. So despite running into unique picks in bot lane, majority of what people played with/against was Ez/Kai/Lucian
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t5Ex6zFm,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2018-08-07T21:53:48.933+0000) > > You lying SOS > People are complaining about Zoe > > Yas is in a good spot. He recently got a buff despite the fact that the crit changes were in some ways reverted > > He is 48% in mid > 49%in top > 42% in bot lane > > Across plat+ > > They may get his winrate to 50% in mid lane but it will spike his top and bot lane win rate really high He's not 42% in bot lane. He's over 50% in bot lane. High skill cap champs should be around the 48-49 mark.
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t5Ex6zFm,comment-id=000300020002,timestamp=2018-08-08T08:43:47.462+0000) > > He's not 42% in bot lane. > > He's over 50% in bot lane. > > High skill cap champs should be around the 48-49 mark. Sorry I didn’t mean to say 42, it was tsupposed to be 52**
: Well by changing ratios you still don't offer counterplay that's the issue there. Because you are hit only by one spell is it fair to automatically recieve other spells damage without any counter except qss ?
> [{quoted}](name=MOuHahaHAhahaaaa,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BIwtB71c,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-07T22:33:14.920+0000) > > Well by changing ratios you still don't offer counterplay that's the issue there. Because you are hit only by one spell is it fair to automatically recieve other spells damage without any counter except qss ? But there is counter play Her W right now doesn't have an indicate. Personally, it needs an indicator because the travel speed isi pretty fast for an ability that can come from absurd distance and angel. Also, right now, if a Zoe misses her bubble, or Q, she can still do a lot of damage from (possibly 2x ignites), comet, and W passives. Nerfing those ratios/numbers is a form a counterplay. It would mean, you dodging her abilities is more rewarding.
: Solving the zoé issue without the need of a rework by adding a counterplay mechanic
This is dumb change You really shouldn’t make a champions dmg based on direction the model Is facing If anything, her bubble is a change she needs regarding an indicator. Past that small changes to her passive ratios
: Learn to dodge left or right. Minion wave comes. Foolish Player A thinks they can farm. Yasuo dashes from another galaxy under Player A's ass within 2 seconds and knocks them up with no skillshot. HASAGI!
> [{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sLjnKAzM,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2018-08-07T22:00:24.116+0000) > > Learn to dodge left or right. > Minion wave comes. > Foolish Player A thinks they can farm. > Yasuo dashes from another galaxy under Player A's ass within 2 seconds and knocks them up with no skillshot. > HASAGI! What about the Trundle who comes and only pops a pillar and Yas appears from 2 screens away
: Sion was fine, people just didnt play him. Sion as a champion completely changed, he is no longer sion anymore. Graves as a champion completely changed, he is no longer graves anymore. Veigar has suffered greatly due to the gate change, as any assasin or bruiser can advance on him and one shot him. Before his wall would compensate for his lack of mobility by keeping him safe if he used it well. Now his wall basically does nothing unless you are in a teamfight, or the enemy champ is stunned. GP was really good, he was versatile, and flexible and complimented various team compositions well. Gangplank as a champion completely changed, he is no longer Gangplank anymore. The point is, when you take a champion that people have pored their time into, and have developed a love for; and you change it completely... It alienates the players who enjoyed them. And i dont remember seeing anyone asking for a rework for these champs, it just kinda happened. All of the champs who have received reworks could have just had balance tweaks for the most part...
> [{quoted}](name=Soda Popinski,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wVXcwhyF,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2018-08-07T06:09:01.270+0000) > > Sion was fine, people just didnt play him. Sion as a champion completely changed, he is no longer sion anymore. > > Graves as a champion completely changed, he is no longer graves anymore. > > Veigar has suffered greatly due to the gate change, as any assasin or bruiser can advance on him and one shot him. Before his wall would compensate for his lack of mobility by keeping him safe if he used it well. Now his wall basically does nothing unless you are in a teamfight, or the enemy champ is stunned. > > GP was really good, he was versatile, and flexible and complimented various team compositions well. Gangplank as a champion completely changed, he is no longer Gangplank anymore. > > The point is, when you take a champion that people have pored their time into, and have developed a love for; and you change it completely... > It alienates the players who enjoyed them. > > And i dont remember seeing anyone asking for a rework for these champs, it just kinda happened. > > All of the champs who have received reworks could have just had balance tweaks for the most part... Lmao what a shit post Old Sion, GP, Yi...etc we’re garbage champions People are complaining about Zoe one shotting champions with a skill shot and Old Sion was able to do that with a targeted stun. AP Yi was able to kill off people with one Q and get Q/ult reset while healing his entire HP with one E GP used to be a champion that was one dimensional that functioned like the current one but in a much worse way. Sad post to read. Complete lie
5050BS (NA)
: ??WTF Riot ?? Yasuo changes
They want World’s highlight where we see a lee sin flash+W+q to get behind an immobile champions like Velkoz and Ult to trigger then yasuo who’s 3 screen away to magically appear Seriously, it’s just absurd because there are so many easy ways to trigger his ult now. Ffs a trundle can just appear and W to trigger the ult. This changes just makes it absurd when the Yas ult. ****
: They might shred 50% off of the ratio to put it to 200%. Idk why this community arms pitchforks any time Yas gets a buff, but doesn't say much about Zoe's power which is arguably more aids than what Yas is.
> [{quoted}](name=Balterein,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t5Ex6zFm,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-08-07T21:28:43.237+0000) > > They might shred 50% off of the ratio to put it to 200%. Idk why this community arms pitchforks any time Yas gets a buff, but doesn't say much about Zoe's power which is arguably more aids than what Yas is. You lying SOS People are complaining about Zoe Yas is in a good spot. He recently got a buff despite the fact that the crit changes were in some ways reverted He is 48% in mid 49%in top 42% in bot lane Across plat+ They may get his winrate to 50% in mid lane but it will spike his top and bot lane win rate really high
: Tank changes for 8.16
Changes look good These changes and the upcoming nerfs look good I’m glad
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Pika Fox (NA)
: Yes, if the enemy team is roaming aggressively, you need to ward aggressively. Buying a GA because the enemy divers are hard diving you and your team cant defend you is a counter, and theres 0 evidence that damage is "too high". Its no noticably higher by any metric as stated already by riot, theres more options to put some of your damage into the first few seconds of an engage, but overall damage is relatively the same. Everyones house is flammable... i hate to break it to you, but you dont live in concrete. Not a good suggestion or statement. OP is complaining about a thing that doesnt exist and making a terrible argument for it. Refusing to play correctly doesnt mean theres no "counter" or way to adjust your play. Thats just an excuse by someone who lost that doesnt want to get better.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eivnj9yE,comment-id=00020000000000010000,timestamp=2018-08-01T00:59:26.964+0000) > > Yes, if the enemy team is roaming aggressively, you need to ward aggressively. > > Buying a GA because the enemy divers are hard diving you and your team cant defend you is a counter, and theres 0 evidence that damage is "too high". Its no noticably higher by any metric as stated already by riot, theres more options to put some of your damage into the first few seconds of an engage, but overall damage is relatively the same. > > Everyones house is flammable... i hate to break it to you, but you dont live in concrete. Not a good suggestion or statement. > > OP is complaining about a thing that doesnt exist and making a terrible argument for it. Refusing to play correctly doesnt mean theres no "counter" or way to adjust your play. Thats just an excuse by someone who lost that doesnt want to get better. Way to miss the point
Pika Fox (NA)
: These are terrible arguments to make. "No counter" *lists counters* "lol nope cuz i say so". Wards still give vision of impending ganks and are still one of the most OP things in the game. Being in your team wont help you? If you all play boosted, sure, but if youre competant that assassin will get CCd or exhausted before dishing out their burst. You shouldnt need it 15 times. If youre dying 3 times in 5 minutes thats not assassins being busted, thats you. Same for zonyas and stopwatch.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eivnj9yE,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-07-31T19:31:31.235+0000) > > These are terrible arguments to make. "No counter" *lists counters* "lol nope cuz i say so". > > Wards still give vision of impending ganks and are still one of the most OP things in the game. > > Being in your team wont help you? If you all play boosted, sure, but if youre competant that assassin will get CCd or exhausted before dishing out their burst. > > You shouldnt need it 15 times. If youre dying 3 times in 5 minutes thats not assassins being busted, thats you. Same for zonyas and stopwatch. You didn’t list counters. What you listed is a work around. In gaming terms, some may call it soft counters Getting ganked a lot? Wards are a counter to it Telling someone to buy a GA because champion damage is overall too high, is NOT a counter If your house is flammable material. You don’t tel someone to keep fire extinguishers on hand. You actually have to change the material The OP is complaining that damage is high. Riot is just adding damage. There are more damage buffs than nerfs
Sherogarth (EUNE)
: TBH tank champions are mostly fine, it's Resolve rune path that drags them down.
Don't balance an entire class around runes. It just makes them volatile to any changes. Many tanks are bad because riot over the course of 2-3 years decided to give tanks more damage. This was an effort to stop the "Wet noddle fights". When they did that, the solved one problem. Unfortunately, by giving tanks more damage (specifically base damage and % hp damage), they toned down their defense. It doesnt help that riot also introduced better armor/mpen shredding, better %HP damage, more true damage source..etc Now, what I think Tanks need is an item that gives them more resistances/hp when they are surrounded by a lot of enemies. {{item:3193}} Technically is good. Unfortunately, I do think it needs to be better but have a higher requirement. IE, it wont work if you don't have X or Y amount of HP/Armor. This would somewhat prevent some champions from abusing it like they did when Gargoyle was in meta. Champions that technically were not tanks.
Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: The Assassin controversy - an open question for the community
I dislike that riot gives mobile champions everything in their kit to do their job. They rarely pay a price for their mobility. Their assassins are becoming a problem You now have Talon who can clear waves betttr than manny changes. He has more mobility, burst, and is only hindered by range It’s ridiculous trying to play a Vel koz in lane now. It’s not about you outplaying your opponent anymore. It’s now about how much can that assassin mess up. Immobile champions don’t have it in their kit to outplay. All the tools are on the assassins Have fun spamming Q in lane against the new Akali. Trying landings abilities as a Vel/Cass/ziggs against a oncoming assassins. It’s a joke. Your window to do something is so low This is the same issue that assassins were complaining about vs shields. Shields lasted too long and assassins have a short window where they can burst champions down Well immobile champions now have a short window or outplaying you. The ball is nearly completely on the assassins side
: Should I take this guy seriously?
: The game's gotten easier. Don't mix it up with average skill level.
> [{quoted}](name=EasternBladeStar,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R6X8MUuE,comment-id=00010000000300010002,timestamp=2018-07-29T16:43:57.152+0000) > > The game's gotten easier. Don't mix it up with average skill level. Yeah, it's easier but that's mostly due to age The people who played lol in s2~ have more knowledge. They are just overall better even if they still have silver mechanics. Also, streaming makes things a lot easier for people who look for guides.
: > [{quoted}](name=mack9112,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R6X8MUuE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-28T17:53:36.707+0000) > > I have been on these boards for 5 years and they literally complain about the exact same thing over and over... Nothing changes man What about the drastic changes that happened to the scuttle crab? Huh?
> [{quoted}](name=Summonah12369,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R6X8MUuE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-07-28T23:17:01.147+0000) > > What about the drastic changes that happened to the scuttle crab? Huh? people adapted..slightly Riot made some changes
: LOL is suffering the Yu-Gi-Oh TCG syndrome
It's not the same Yugioh had the creep problem because the company itself was under pressure to make new TV series and keep pushing for physical card sales. 1. You have to add new cards and scenarios for kids to be vested into the tv series. Every tv series/movie suffers from this. Every new threat, needs to be bigger and badder. 2. New cards need to be better, even if slightly to increase the chances people buy cards. This happens in physical cards and digital content. Look at Hearthstone or WOW. This is a good look at what power creep (even if very small) does to the original content in the long term. League of Legend may be suffering from scenario #2 **BUT** Riot is also retroactively preventing it. This is what reworks are; what bi-weekly patches are. They refine or change something that is no longer good. The trick is to make sure you don't over do it. Clearly, the designer who created Yasuo and the new upcoming Akali took it too far. That designer (Imo) went past the parameters that i feel like should be fine Look at old Yugioh cards, look how weak they are. You have 8 star, 2100 ATK normal monsters. The company behind Yugioh can't do anything about it. LOL is digital only, they are able to change something that is completely dated to be a bit more fresh. So no, LOL isn't really suffering from yugioh did.
: I dont remember anyone complaining about damage being too high or mobility being too high years ago.
> [{quoted}](name=DarkRaynger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R6X8MUuE,comment-id=000100000003,timestamp=2018-07-28T20:54:02.678+0000) > > I dont remember anyone complaining about damage being too high or mobility being too high years ago. People always complained about it Back then though, the definition of mobility was much lower. Nid used to be considered a very mobile champion. Now, she is just part of a huge list of champion that are mobile. As far as damage, last year, you had Cait who can crit people for 2k in one hit. LOL also evolved since a silver player today is much better than a silver player 5 years ago. The average level of lol players have increased. That's just my opinion. I played since S1
: Different kind of complaint. Talking about how much they cost isn’t the same thing as saying they have too much or not enough power. No one was talking about things like “armor seals made champions impossible to kill” or that “MPen Marks gave AP too much damage”.
> [{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R6X8MUuE,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2018-07-28T19:51:32.833+0000) > > Different kind of complaint. Talking about how much they cost isn’t the same thing as saying they have too much or not enough power. No one was talking about things like “armor seals made champions impossible to kill” or that “MPen Marks gave AP too much damage”. No, but it was a legitimate complaint where people would flood the forums saying they just died and the opponent who killed them would had died if X account had the runes/seals unlocked And yes, people did complain about some of the seals/runes. I remember specifically the gold/exp generations ones.
: Same. Out of that list, the only thing I can't remember people complaining about for the past 4 years or so are runes, which used to be so basic no one had anything to say about them.
> [{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R6X8MUuE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-07-28T17:09:00.858+0000) > > Same. Out of that list, the only thing I can't remember people complaining about for the past 4 years or so are runes, which used to be so basic no one had anything to say about them. No one? really? Many people complained because it felt like a pay wall where you had to grind to get the same adavantage that other did. T1 and T2 runes were also noob traps .
: It's actually a relatively divided topic internally tbh. From a pure data perspective, the amount of damage in the game isn't meaningfully higher than it has been in the past (and is actually down for some champs), the main difference is how much more frontloaded it is. Whether that be from Duskblade, Scorch, Aery etc, it's easier to apply reliable damage that amps your combat rotations or poke. That's an area where there's more division, on one hand higher damage ensures that fights conclude, that playing aggressively is rewarded and that playing purely defensively is easier to take advantage of. This is probably a bit spicy, but I personally believe that the Ardent Censer meta from worlds couldn't have existed this season given that aggressive teams could have better taken advantage of the weaker earlier game of the team going for the AC rush (no vision, no hp from sightstone etc). Picking aggressive combos like Leo/Trist would have been a much better counter to the strategy. That being said - and this is my opinion - I think there's probably a bit too much damage right now that lacks sufficient counterplay. I played against a Soraka yesterday in a playtest and her being able to apply both Aery and Scorch immediately to me with E doesn't feel particularly great. I don't want to get too deep into the weeds here though, since that's just my opinion - but hope that once we collect our thoughts next week we're able to give you a firmer stance and what/if we're going to do something.
> [{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K0b5fhnN,comment-id=001500010001,timestamp=2018-07-27T02:16:36.158+0000) > > It's actually a relatively divided topic internally tbh. From a pure data perspective, the amount of damage in the game isn't meaningfully higher than it has been in the past (and is actually down for some champs), the main difference is how much more frontloaded it is. Whether that be from Duskblade, Scorch, Aery etc, it's easier to apply reliable damage that amps your combat rotations or poke. That's an area where there's more division, on one hand higher damage ensures that fights conclude, that playing aggressively is rewarded and that playing purely defensively is easier to take advantage of. This is probably a bit spicy, but I personally believe that the Ardent Censer meta from worlds couldn't have existed this season given that aggressive teams could have better taken advantage of the weaker earlier game of the team going for the AC rush (no vision, no hp from sightstone etc). Picking aggressive combos like Leo/Trist would have been a much better counter to the strategy. > > That being said - and this is my opinion - I think there's probably a bit too much damage right now that lacks sufficient counterplay. I played against a Soraka yesterday in a playtest and her being able to apply both Aery and Scorch immediately to me with E doesn't feel particularly great. I don't want to get too deep into the weeds here though, since that's just my opinion - but hope that once we collect our thoughts next week we're able to give you a firmer stance and what/if we're going to do something. Damage was higher in Ardent Meta ADCs also spoke with one item Go ahead revert the Ardent needs and crit changes. See how quickly the meta shifts back You had ADCs taking full rotations of spells from 2 champions
Leto GT (EUW)
: The fact that 25%-30% of games are considered traps games is concerning.
WOW 25% games ONLY? That's low. If it gets any lower and we will get to the S7 meta where there is no point to play early game snowball type playstyle. What's the point when only less than 20% of those game tend to get close... yes, i am over exaggerating
koshkyra (NA)
: I wish riot would just talk to us
They do talk. They post plenty of post which includes upcoming games, their thoughts, and issues. The problem is, you have a limited viewpoint and think Riot needs to respond to every complaint.
: fun fact? almost every game that has ignored its established audience has gone under or become niche for the few players it has command and conquer only has a few thousand players. What did it do? it ignored the playerbase(Thanks to EA) and made poor decisions and coincidentally, the majority of its remaining players are Eastern...it doesn't even have official servers anymore and even tries to bleed the susceptible out of funds for full priced games and the mobile-copy that is Tiberium Alliances... Runescape: total farmfest some studios even stop developing entirely and it leads to the same result the players want the games to have as much investment into them as the players invest into the game
> [{quoted}](name=3TWarrior,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VeNWaQZW,comment-id=000a000100010001,timestamp=2018-07-24T01:45:42.301+0000) > > fun fact? almost every game that has ignored its established audience has gone under or become niche for the few players it has > > command and conquer only has a few thousand players. What did it do? it ignored the playerbase(Thanks to EA) and made poor decisions and coincidentally, the majority of its remaining players are Eastern...it doesn't even have official servers anymore and even tries to bleed the susceptible out of funds for full priced games and the mobile-copy that is Tiberium Alliances... > > Runescape: total farmfest > > some studios even stop developing entirely and it leads to the same result > > the players want the games to have as much investment into them as the players invest into the game Changes for the sake of change is bad. Command and Conquer (Generals) was fine. RTS games tends to have limited life-time. They can't introduce new factions. The best they can do is small balance changes. CCG did decent for it's era. Few RTS games survive long. SC1 and SC2 are one of the few that have. As far as Runescape goes, they made too many changes that deviated from original design. BUT with all that said, you also have to understand that players get older. That same audience you got 10+ years ago may no longer even be your audience anymore. If you were ~13 years old when you started LOL, you're 23+ now. That same audience may have change since that. Hell, back then, I didn't mind playing 40+ games. Now, I wont do it. It's not that I don't appreciate it or don't like the length; i just can't devote that much time. The new players that LOL has picked up later on may have changed as well. Also, fun fact. There is no 10+ year old MP game that is still so popular without constantly making minor game play changes.
Rexxiee (NA)
: As much as you guys complained about adcs and supports, they are what keept the meta balanced
S8>S7 S8 is much better. ADC didn't keep the game balanced. It kept it that Riot was allowed ADC's to be the constant. It wasn't balanced. The entire game focused and revolved around the ADC role. Now, with the ADC's SLIGHTLY nerfed, you see comps that revolve around non-adc champion. You can funnel/protect the assassin. Sure, some people will complain but for the most part, the game is much healthier today, than it was during S7.
THE D1C (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VeNWaQZW,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-23T09:08:42.280+0000) > > I don't see how the meta is really the reason as the majority of people hated the laneswap and 4v0 meta when the game had higher viewership. The issue is specifically this: People used to love the game and complain about how the pros played it. Now they hate the game, and how the “pro balance”ruined it. The current meta just doubles down on this, well at least they are working to fix the “can’t solo carry” unless you jungle. If all your laners suck. Enjoy picking up that 20 minion wave for 80 gold
> [{quoted}](name=THE D1C,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VeNWaQZW,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-07-23T23:18:45.413+0000) > > The issue is specifically this: > > People used to love the game and complain about how the pros played it. Now they hate the game, and how the “pro balance”ruined it. > > The current meta just doubles down on this, well at least they are working to fix the “can’t solo carry” unless you jungle. If all your laners suck. Enjoy picking up that 20 minion wave for 80 gold I have been playing this game (on and off) since S1. Hell, this account I'm using has all champs/runes (when they were runes) unlocked. This account is as old as S1. I've been roaming the boards since S2. Believe me, even back then, people complained. Vocal minorities are always trying to be loud. It's like the homeless man holding up the sign for 15 + years that "the end is nigh". You gotta be able to distinguish the BS with the actual complaints. You have people in S7 saying that ADC's weren't OP in ardent meta.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Baker of Targon,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VeNWaQZW,comment-id=000a000100010000,timestamp=2018-07-23T22:05:50.088+0000) > > [DELETED CONTENT REMOVED - ULANOPO] Probably not. Are you 5 years old?
Anin777 (EUW)
: Lool that's not the reason. PUBG came out and still had less viewers than League. Leagues downfall started in S6 when Dynamic Queue was introduced and we were forced to deal with it for A WHOLE SEASON. Imagine. Pro/High elo Players complained and people lost interest quick. Switch to S7. They reverted it, okay good. Then they started increasing dmg and adding CDR to every friggin item. Game becomes spammy, people don't like it, gg. Now S8, runes reforged. I was excited for this cos the UI looked cool but after using it extensively, I regret my excitement. They basically fcked up runes and mastery system and gave us something no one wanted. So yeah, Battle Royale games aren't the reason for League's decline. The decisions that Riot games made are to blame.
> [{quoted}](name=Anin777,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VeNWaQZW,comment-id=000a0002,timestamp=2018-07-23T20:49:42.304+0000) > > Lool that's not the reason. PUBG came out and still had less viewers than League. Leagues downfall started in S6 when Dynamic Queue was introduced and we were forced to deal with it for A WHOLE SEASON. Imagine. Pro/High elo Players complained and people lost interest quick. Switch to S7. They reverted it, okay good. Then they started increasing dmg and adding CDR to every friggin item. Game becomes spammy, people don't like it, gg. Now S8, runes reforged. I was excited for this cos the UI looked cool but after using it extensively, I regret my excitement. They basically fcked up runes and mastery system and gave us something no one wanted. So yeah, Battle Royale games aren't the reason for League's decline. The decisions that Riot games made are to blame. I never said Meta and patch don’t have anything to do with decline. What I said was that there were other factors in the decline Riot provides multiple way to watch LCS live and through replays. It adds more freedom You mentioned PUBG but what about Fortnite? It’s not just fortnite, it’s every BR game. They are just popular right now. It’s easier to pick up/learn and watch. It’s incredible fast and you don’t get punished for quitting. It more casual. That has a huge impact on games like LoL if the trend starts affecting lol. The trend now is quick BR games. It why other genres are trying to find a way to incorporate BR elements into their games. We see this with new upcoming games like COD. I won’t argue that LoL did not lose players. But you are looking at the small picture. Every, and I mean EVERY MOBA game has lost player count and viewers since BR kicked it in over drive. After 10 years, LoL and other MOBA games have reached saturation. Right now, as try to maintain the player base and pick up old players. I also won’t argue that perhaps the meta/changes did impact the numbers (negatively). Hell, I quit because of how fast games were. But you don’t know how much the game would have lose had they done the opposite. It’s easy criticizing when you know the outcome of one path. I remember in s4, when players hated the 60+ min games. Hell, I had to quit LoL back in s4 because games could take as long as 60 minutes. Average game was 50 minutes for me. No doubt, the popularity of Br games forced Riot to try and make their games shorter.
: yeah football and rugby are so fucking old nobody watches them anymore either \joke
> [{quoted}](name=Baker of Targon,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VeNWaQZW,comment-id=000a0001,timestamp=2018-07-23T17:20:50.353+0000) > > yeah football and rugby are so fucking old nobody watches them anymore either > \joke Thank god you had to dig deep down to from a totally different aspect to try dismiss my statement Two can play at that! Look at gladiatorial games. They are old. No but really, physical sport doesn’t go out of style as games do. Games have an engine that gets out dated. Games have trend Saying rugby is still popular is irrelevant.
Hügö (EUW)
: It has very little to do with the age of a game when games lose alot of players or viewers. Most of the time it is becasue of wrong decisions from the devs.
> [{quoted}](name=Hügö,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VeNWaQZW,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-07-23T15:06:07.005+0000) > > It has very little to do with the age of a game when games lose alot of players or viewers. Most of the time it is becasue of wrong decisions from the devs. Are you really going to try and argue that the age of a game has little to do with player base? Why do you think Riot constantly tries to add some to twist the game play? It’s because the second players start feeling like they are playing the same game (with no base line changes), it starts getting boring. Riot constantly tries to add mini changes to game in order to keep is refreshing/ “new” Yeah, the games age does matter. As the game ages, it sheds and takes on new players. If mobas go out of side (genre itself), lol will lose players. It’s why you hardly see RTS games. They went out of style.
: LCS viewership went down so much.
Partially it’s due to the meta More importantly, it’s just the stage of the game. It’s a 10’year old game. It’s been #1 for a better part of ~8 years. When battle royals games became the new hot thing, LOL audience dipped. Now BR games are the new kids on block. In a few years, those games will reach saturation Quite honestly, it’s amazing lol managed to be #1 for so many years. On the bright side, every other games besides the BR games have also taken massive dives. It’s why lol still manages to be #2
: I don't think you even read my post.
> [{quoted}](name=Cancer Champ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=56fEJmcL,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-07-18T22:21:29.995+0000) > > I don't think you even read my post. I did I just choose to ignore some silly things that I can’t respond to because you weren’t clear or would maintain a stance on
: Tanks are not Tanks anymore
Tanks suck because riot made sure that over the past 2 years, to start pumping % HP damage to pretty much everyone You will not find a champion who does not deal %HP in one form or another. Certain champions have more than one source of %HP damage When you play as a tank, it doesn’t matter as much if you have 500 or 5000 HP. % is great vs tanks
: Something a lot of people aren't considering about new Akali in regards to her shroud...
What? It sounds like you’re trying to convince people she’s fine and using that dumb old excuse “Y is fine, just look at X” The reality is, she will be a pain to deal with. I haven’t looked at her numbers yet because it’s still subject to change (it’s ok PBE). However, the abilities themselves are OP. Sure, they can be nerfed to be weak in terms of their number but the ability itself is still OP As an example like Kalista ultimate is strong. You can make it weak with numbers in terms of its CD to make her UP. It doesn’t change the fact that the ability itself is insane Akalis abilities (without taking into account how strong or burst she can be), are strong. She will be a pain to properly balance. The second she becomes “meta” or strong, she will make it hell for some champions. Imagine laning in lane against Akali as Ashe. Trying playing as many immobile mages. Imagine accidentally giving Akali FB (lvl 1 in jungl). Imagine how hard she will be able to stomp some match ups. When a Vel koz gets ahead in lane, all Vel Koz gains is higher damage and possibly more CC/HP. His kit doesn’t make it much harder for you despite being ahead in gold An Akali will utterly make the laning phase hell. She can force a recall and literally stop you from hugging tower because of her abilities. Good luck when she starts zoning you out Akali will be similar to Yasuo. Sure you can stomp him in lane 0/3/0 but once he gets his two core items, she can suddenly catch up. His ultimate makes it annoying because all it requires to kill you is Trundle using pillar from wolves camp. Akali will be a problematic champion. No, not for everyone. Zed, Talon, many bruisers will be able to deal with her. I’m afraid it’s mostly the immobile champions who suffer. It’s the immobile champions like ashe, ryze, Vel Koz who will get punished. They are the ones with limited mobility that have a hard time in this new game. Also, saying she isn’t more safe in lane is dumb. She has better dashes to get out of lane. She has better methods of avoiding damage. For the record, saying “Z ability would b open on Y champion” is not enough. Her abilities are OP. You can artificially nerf them by needing her base damages or ratios it doesn’t mean the core of the ability is weak.
: Okay. Let's break down your complaints: W: It only extends by up to three additional seconds (up to 8 second total duration, according to Krol Will Sam, but that could just be copy-pasted and it bugged and only showed level 1). That's not a massive amount of extension, honestly. That only puts it in-line with current Akali's W duration (8s all ranks), if you jump in and out 6 times. Also, there's nothing holding you there. It's an AoE stealth, not a Camille R. Just like on live - Walk out of the fucking circle of death. It's not that complicated. You wouldn't stand next to one of Illaoi's tentacles, would you? E: The return is in line with all kinds of "return to target" dashes. LeBlanc can W into a TK ult, be taken across the entire map, then press W again and return. The only difference is that Akali's is targeted to an enemy she hit with something before, while LB just returns to somewhere she already was. R: A tiny stun isn't much to whine about. The damage looks huge, but that's just when someone's at low health. Like Veigar's ult, it won't do much damage if someone's at full health. We also don't know the maximum duration between dashes, so it could end up being fairly short.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fccA93YG,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-07-17T23:40:00.597+0000) > > Okay. Let's break down your complaints: > > W: It only extends by up to three additional seconds (up to 8 second total duration, according to Krol Will Sam, but that could just be copy-pasted and it bugged and only showed level 1). That's not a massive amount of extension, honestly. That only puts it in-line with current Akali's W duration (8s all ranks), if you jump in and out 6 times. > > Also, there's nothing holding you there. It's an AoE stealth, not a Camille R. Just like on live - Walk out of the fucking circle of death. It's not that complicated. You wouldn't stand next to one of Illaoi's tentacles, would you? > > E: The return is in line with all kinds of "return to target" dashes. LeBlanc can W into a TK ult, be taken across the entire map, then press W again and return. The only difference is that Akali's is targeted to an enemy she hit with something before, while LB just returns to somewhere she already was. > > R: A tiny stun isn't much to whine about. The damage looks huge, but that's just when someone's at low health. Like Veigar's ult, it won't do much damage if someone's at full health. We also don't know the maximum duration between dashes, so it could end up being fairly short. It extends it ONLY 3 seconds? You mean it increases the duration by 60%? That's HUGE. You stating 3 seconds and pretending that it's a small number is laughable. You have to compare it by the base number. If Akali moves in and out of the shadow/stealth, it increase the duration by 60%
: enemy got kill despite not doing any damage or CC
Some CC's like Veig's E does 1 damage
Yamikaze (NA)
: The PBE Talon Nerfs Are The Wrong Way to Nerf Talon - By a Challenger Talon OTP
He needs multiple changes 1. He has wave clear that is better than Ziggs. 2. High MR, why? 3. Q needs range nerf Oh wait, the OP already said all this. Yet, Riot doesn't listen. HMMM
: Blaming “damage creep” for current balance issues missed an array of much larger problems at hand
I wont respond to the text wall completely. I also don't this it's fair for the OP for me to just pick out specific parts of his argument. Ultimately, there is a damage creep. it's real. To deny that is idiotic. No, it's not a by product of a hive mind. Most of what you listed including the issue regarding towers and baron is a "byproduct" of damage creep. Damage has been increase by a large margin. The bigger issue is, Riot has purposely allowed more champions/abilities to have %HP damage. This allows Riot to better control damage on a larger scale. Riot has also increase damage dealt to turret (for AP champions, tanks..etc) which in turn feeds the damage creep. See OP, the problem with your analysis is that you tried to separate damage increase with defense increase. You said it yourself, "It’s bad defensive items for individual champions" This is what damage creep is. When you increase damage while every other stat doesn't get compensated. You do that enough and you start building up what people call damage creep. Look at individual changes like Poppy on patch notes http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Poppy There is a patch where they out of nowhere increased her damage, but lowered her defensive stats. If all other variables stated the same (Items, towers..etc), this results into a small damage creep. There was a post a few week ago, someone who complied a list of changes that increase and decreased damage. There was a significant more changes that increased the damage. This was for both items and champions.
: Is anyone gonna care enough to talk about this?
That’s what happens when a champion’s by design has a horrible kit The second it passes the line of popular or strong, it needs to get nerfed They gave a horrible design and need reworks.
: > Time to ADAPT or lose your job. * Implying that being a "pro player" is a job. LOL.
> [{quoted}](name=BoringLittleF,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r10TEBNU,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-07-10T09:12:34.456+0000) > > * Implying that being a "pro player" is a job. > > LOL. I mean at the end of the day, he is doing something (IE playing games, cleaning toilet..etc) and getting paid for it in return. That's a job.
: > [{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r10TEBNU,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2018-07-10T03:00:48.667+0000) > > OR just lower the jungle exp to anyone without jungle item. Sure, you can still funnel a lot of gold into one carry but have fun getting the 5th player support any gold or exp. the guy who is getting the gold funneled into runs smite. his buddy ques up for mid lane, typically on some kind of support. binding jungle xp more to smite would accomplish less than nothing. you want to get rid of gold funneling? make junglers farm like laners, and give up farm and have them actually fall behind for inefficient jungle pathes and constant ganking.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r10TEBNU,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2018-07-10T03:03:19.998+0000) > > the guy who is getting the gold funneled into runs smite. his buddy ques up for mid lane, typically on some kind of support. > > binding jungle xp more to smite would accomplish less than nothing. > > you want to get rid of gold funneling? make junglers farm like laners, and give up farm and have them actually fall behind for inefficient jungle pathes and constant ganking. Nah, I don't want funneling to be completely destroyed; just made a lot harder to execute. By lowering the jungle exp for champions who have no jungle item, the team is basically saying, the 5th champion (Support or not) will have even less exp. Sure, some champions will be able to function and still allow the funnel comp to be viable, but for the most part, it will be harder. The 5th member will have even less exp and likely be behind everyone.
NØVA (NA)
: Jungle Changes are trash
This is what laners wanted. Damage was so high that all junglers needed to do was ult a lane and you'd be close to death. All trundle has to do with a Yas is pillar. The damage is so high that you get set behind regardless So the only way to stop this is to make sure junglers cant gank easily...or at all
: you know what would fix the gold funneling? REVERTING THE FUCKING JUNGLE. take all the gold and xp off scuttle crab, increase camp spawn rates. no time to farm mid lane between camp respawns. you lose half the gold and jungle xp if you spend your time on mid and dont clear efficiently. why does gold funneling work now? because fucking junglers have soo much free time on their hands, that they dont lose anything when theyre taking their time to farm an entire fucking lane between camps.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r10TEBNU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-10T00:31:31.127+0000) > > you know what would fix the gold funneling? > > REVERTING THE FUCKING JUNGLE. > > take all the gold and xp off scuttle crab, increase camp spawn rates. > > no time to farm mid lane between camp respawns. you lose half the gold and jungle xp if you spend your time on mid and dont clear efficiently. > > why does gold funneling work now? because fucking junglers have soo much free time on their hands, that they dont lose anything when theyre taking their time to farm an entire fucking lane between camps. OR just lower the jungle exp to anyone without jungle item. Sure, you can still funnel a lot of gold into one carry but have fun getting the 5th player support any gold or exp.
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xJLx MCHammer

Level 112 (NA)
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