Z3bra (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ulanopo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=H807cs6z,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-02T04:36:44.664+0000) > > I'm going to be honest, I don't put any stock in these "Riot doesn't care about feeding" or "Riot sucks at detecting feeding" because they always seem to find a few games on a third-party website, strip them of context and claim that this is the reality of League. The truth is, millions of people play every day while experiencing little to no toxicity. I can't even remember the last game of mine where someone intentionally fed _and that anecdote is just as valid as a carefully cherry-picked set of matches._ > > Here's the thing, though. Other than doing your civic duty of reporting, _nothing about this affects you in any way_. This guy isn't ruining _your_ games. Yeah, you can be offended by the idea of him, but sooner or later you have to let that go. Riot is not perfect and the longer you demand they are and the more stridently you insist on a specific outcome, the more frustrated you will become. > Ulanopo, I understand you probably deal with huffy people all day and are a volunteer (been there done that on a different game), but please hear me out when I say that it's about cause an effects and that denying/underplaying the impact of that only makes problems like this worse. When these people aren't detected and aren't forced to reform within a reasonable amount of time it WILL add up over several accounts. I don't know where you are playing or how often you are playing, but down here in my elo there is NOTHING but trolls. I could easily, easily, easily, easily, EASILY show you how simple situations devolve into toxicity/intentional feeding every 2-3 games for me some weeks. WHERE are you playing these matches where your teammates are only a "little" toxic or show no toxicity? Should I start documenting these things myself to show how bad this is in league? We aren't getting a response from riot, we aren't getting feedback through the report system, and we STILL get tons and tons of toxic/intentional feeders in our games, and your answer is summed to as "just put up with it." I lack better terms, so sorry if this comes off as crass, but I feel you should know that your statement comes off as way out of touch. For every asshole like this who just feeds their ass off intentionally or throws the game, not only does it waste time of people like me who have limited freetime to relax/try league but it also is likely to waste the time of somebody else. I absolutely respect Riot for wanting to reform people and I imagine there are several cases who did manage to (I played with a few players like that, gifted them skins) But it is irresponsible and stupid that they don't have to try sooner, and there is no gain in denying that. There is no gain in denying that this negatively effects the game, and it is _absolutely_ widespread and a problem. That isn't asking Riot to have perfection, that's asking Riot to curb the troll problem because it is bluntly out of control right now. They would like one of the most played games in the world right now to actually do something about these people before they ruin 20 games. If we assume 20 games last 30 minutes or something, that's 10 HOURS OF DAMAGE MADE BY JUST ONE PERSON. How many more people are there doing this? Every time a troll pre-empts the report system it's with "So what? Riot won't do anything." What is Riot doing about this? We keep being met with silence and now the only response is from a volunteer who says "it's not as bad as it seems." I'll add what my friend said to me once: It's not just that the problem exists, it feels like Riot is allowing it to exist. It feels like nothing is being done. How are we supposed to think something is being done when we can, under no circumstance, see any change? For as long as that continues, people are going to get upset, and for as long as people stay upset, people are going to remember these and their personal situations and stack them on top of eachother until they either go "vigilante justice", quit, or explode at Riot.
> [{quoted}](name=Z3bra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=H807cs6z,comment-id=00010005,timestamp=2017-01-02T22:58:05.846+0000) > > Ulanopo, > > I understand you probably deal with huffy people all day and are a volunteer (been there done that on a different game), but please hear me out when I say that it's about cause an effects and that denying/underplaying the impact of that only makes problems like this worse. > > When these people aren't detected and aren't forced to reform within a reasonable amount of time it WILL add up over several accounts. I don't know where you are playing or how often you are playing, but down here in my elo there is NOTHING but trolls. I could easily, easily, easily, easily, EASILY show you how simple situations devolve into toxicity/intentional feeding every 2-3 games for me some weeks. WHERE are you playing these matches where your teammates are only a "little" toxic or show no toxicity? Should I start documenting these things myself to show how bad this is in league? > > We aren't getting a response from riot, we aren't getting feedback through the report system, and we STILL get tons and tons of toxic/intentional feeders in our games, and your answer is summed to as "just put up with it." I lack better terms, so sorry if this comes off as crass, but I feel you should know that your statement comes off as way out of touch. > > For every asshole like this who just feeds their ass off intentionally or throws the game, not only does it waste time of people like me who have limited freetime to relax/try league but it also is likely to waste the time of somebody else. > > I absolutely respect Riot for wanting to reform people and I imagine there are several cases who did manage to (I played with a few players like that, gifted them skins) > > But it is irresponsible and stupid that they don't have to try sooner, and there is no gain in denying that. There is no gain in denying that this negatively effects the game, and it is _absolutely_ widespread and a problem. That isn't asking Riot to have perfection, that's asking Riot to curb the troll problem because it is bluntly out of control right now. They would like one of the most played games in the world right now to actually do something about these people before they ruin 20 games. If we assume 20 games last 30 minutes or something, that's 10 HOURS OF DAMAGE MADE BY JUST ONE PERSON. > > How many more people are there doing this? Every time a troll pre-empts the report system it's with "So what? Riot won't do anything." What is Riot doing about this? We keep being met with silence and now the only response is from a volunteer who says "it's not as bad as it seems." I'll add what my friend said to me once: It's not just that the problem exists, it feels like Riot is allowing it to exist. It feels like nothing is being done. How are we supposed to think something is being done when we can, under no circumstance, see any change? For as long as that continues, people are going to get upset, and for as long as people stay upset, people are going to remember these and their personal situations and stack them on top of eachother until they either go "vigilante justice", quit, or explode at Riot. Well fucking said.
Ulanopo (NA)
: My point is that there are _always_ going to be cases that slip through the system. At some point, you're going to have to accept that, especially while FeederBuster is still basically in beta. Years from now, someone will complain "this guy fed for three games before the system caught him! That's unacceptable!" And the reason that will happen isn't that Riot doesn't care. It's because they value preventing false positives over preventing false negatives and tune the system accordingly. You can see it in the Instant Feedback System, which is _far_ more sophisticated and complete than FeederBuster.
> [{quoted}](name=Ulanopo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=H807cs6z,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-01-02T22:37:13.896+0000) > > My point is that there are _always_ going to be cases that slip through the system. At some point, you're going to have to accept that, especially while FeederBuster is still basically in beta. > > Years from now, someone will complain "this guy fed for three games before the system caught him! That's unacceptable!" And the reason that will happen isn't that Riot doesn't care. It's because they value preventing false positives over preventing false negatives and tune the system accordingly. You can see it in the Instant Feedback System, which is _far_ more sophisticated and complete than FeederBuster. 3 games? I think we'd all agree that 3 games is about where it should be. But that doesn't seem to be the case. You seem to be playing devil's advocate for no other reason than it can be played.
Ulanopo (NA)
: >How do I know? I check to see if he does actually get punish to prove to Ulnaloo who is board admin that Riot support does nothing when you submit these type of ticket, to this very day he is still playing and still has honor because if he does get punish his honor would had reseted You could at least get my name right, even if you don't realize I'm an Arbiter (volunteer, blue text), not a moderator (Riot employee, green text). I'm going to be honest, I don't put any stock in these "Riot doesn't care about feeding" or "Riot sucks at detecting feeding" because they always seem to find a few games on a third-party website, strip them of context and claim that this is the reality of League. The truth is, millions of people play every day while experiencing little to no toxicity. I can't even remember the last game of mine where someone intentionally fed _and that anecdote is just as valid as a carefully cherry-picked set of matches._ "But _Ulanopo_, this guy is clearly feeding." Maybe, maybe not. Something is going on, but I can't make an educated guess from the data given. That's why I tell people to make sure they put in a support ticket. Riot has the tools to get to the bottom of this. Here's the thing, though. Other than doing your civic duty of reporting, _nothing about this affects you in any way_. This guy isn't ruining _your_ games. Yeah, you can be offended by the idea of him, but sooner or later you have to let that go. Riot is not perfect and the longer you demand they are and the more stridently you insist on a specific outcome, the more frustrated you will become. Do I hate feeders? Absolutely. Do I want to see them punished? Even more so. I'm just not going to get bent out of shape about those that get away with it. I don't even get bent out of shape when it happens in **my** games because it's going to happen and there isn't anything I can do about it - other than report and move on.
> [{quoted}](name=Ulanopo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=H807cs6z,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-02T04:36:44.664+0000) > > I can't even remember the last game of mine where someone intentionally fed _and that anecdote is just as valid as a carefully cherry-picked set of matches._ > > Do I hate feeders? Absolutely. Do I want to see them punished? Even more so. I'm just not going to get bent out of shape about those that get away with it. I don't even get bent out of shape when it happens in **my** games because it's going to happen and there isn't anything I can do about it - other than report and move on. First... consider yourself blessed. You have luck or something that guides 4 amazing people out of those millions of players onto your teams. Or you're blind as a bat or ignore a lot of things that ruin games for many other people. Second... That's the whole point of this post from what I can see. We all hate feeders and similar shit. But we want MORE DONE ABOUT IT... We all report and "move on"... it's not working. You may point out some of these people go to 3rd party sites and such and all that but it doesn't change the fact that it DOES happen. And the response from RIOT is WAAAAY too lenient. How do you even consider yourself a critic?
ZaDahaka11 (EUNE)
: everyone (unless they have children in this world) would pick D this isn't even a question.. the only way A is good, is if I can take the console with me, so I can do stuff while moving around while time is frozen. by your logic, I could use any console with any battery, or just a gameboy. Hell I will build my own so it would be small and allow me to move while holding the controller that is connected to the console. the rest are crap and kinda make no sense because they cancel each other out. E is way to risky, you might ruin the present and make your life worse, if you wanna remove someone from the present, it would be much safer to kill him yourself. you can change your sex anyway, and change your skin color. no one needs to die if it someone you hate, he won't even know who you are anymore. {{champion:78}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:117}} any Yordle will do, I mean I live in a good city, drinking beer with my Yordle friends, while getting trained by all of them (since they are friends i'm sure they would help me because one of them is my mentor). and I get to explore a world of magic and what no, plus I get to meet most of the other champions (mostly the nice ones, I don't see how I can just meet {{champion:122}} anywhere without it leading me to problems. and champions like {{champion:103}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:10}} arn't sitting somewhere having fun, they got shit to do. they don't really have a personnel life)
> [{quoted}](name=ZaDahaka11,realm=EUNE,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=f5VPAETQ,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-01-03T00:43:03.696+0000) > > everyone (unless they have children in this world) would pick D > > this isn't even a question.. > > the only way A is good, is if I can take the console with me, so I can do stuff while moving around while time is frozen. by your logic, I could use any console with any battery, or just a gameboy. Hell I will build my own so it would be small and allow me to move while holding the controller that is connected to the console. > > the rest are crap and kinda make no sense because they cancel each other out. > > E is way to risky, you might ruin the present and make your life worse, if you wanna remove someone from the present, it would be much safer to kill him yourself. you can change your sex anyway, and change your skin color. no one needs to die if it someone you hate, he won't even know who you are anymore. > > {{champion:78}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:117}} any Yordle will do, I mean I live in a good city, drinking beer with my Yordle friends, while getting trained by all of them (since they are friends i'm sure they would help me because one of them is my mentor). and I get to explore a world of magic and what no, plus I get to meet most of the other champions (mostly the nice ones, I don't see how I can just meet {{champion:122}} anywhere without it leading me to problems. and champions like {{champion:103}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:10}} arn't sitting somewhere having fun, they got shit to do. they don't really have a personnel life) You want to live in a war torn country where nightmares quite literally exist and champions are fighting to the death in an Arena? Sounds cool... Hope they give you an extra life or something... Odds are... you'll be shield minion and get shot by cait or stuck with an arrow by Vayne and that's the end of it.
Jaygo41 (NA)
: Since you want to be aggressive... I'm better than you at this game. You're the reason you're losing games. Deal with it and get better
> [{quoted}](name=Jaygo41,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aa8YqtRx,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-03T00:06:26.349+0000) > > Since you want to be aggressive... > > I'm better than you at this game. You're the reason you're losing games. > > Deal with it and get better This isn't true. And I couldn't care less what you think. Reported for trolling.
: I dont feel like playing any more.
Honestly, the current snowball meta bullshit is worse than it has ever been. It's not fun, it's not enjoyable and creates extra toxicity. It makes it so once you get behind, it's impossible to recover. Which isn't fun.
riste (NA)
: I'm performing a challenge right now where I get a Ribbon as Riven only in ranked (EUWest)
I have a challenge for you... Win 4 out of 5 games played with me. No one has done it. And 3 diamonds have tried.
: You're quick to point a lot of fingers it seems. You can blame it on as many things as you want. Not every player is the same and sometimes you just have to suck it up, take a loss, shrug your shoulders, pick yourself up, and move on. If it's the "worthless" players that are causing you such a problem, try to find some friends to play with and enjoy the game with people of equal liking.
> [{quoted}](name=GeminiRune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aa8YqtRx,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-02T23:25:43.603+0000) > > You're quick to point a lot of fingers it seems. You can blame it on as many things as you want. Not every player is the same and sometimes you just have to suck it up, take a loss, shrug your shoulders, pick yourself up, and move on. If it's the "worthless" players that are causing you such a problem, try to find some friends to play with and enjoy the game with people of equal liking. I have tried to find a team. RIOT doesn't have a functioning method to find one. The Team Recruitment board is a joke and Team builder got removed. You've completely missed the point, as did the other person who commented. You think I'm blaming my team. I'm not. I'm being matched with people whose skill level doesn't come close to matching my own and I'm fighting teams that obviously know more than mine. It's not perception or inability to accept the outcome. I'm fighting a team that's not on the same level as mine and I can't 1v5 and for damn sure I can't do it consistently enough when autofill exists. I know my team lost soon as champ select is over... confirm it when lolnexus loads.... how is that fun? Ask yourself if THAT scenario happened to you, how would you feel about it? Because dismissing me over calling my team worthless when that's literally how they played isn't helpful at all.
: No player is worthless. Some player are just worse than others.You're not good enough to call anyone worthless to be honest. The reason why you lose games is not only your team (sometimes it is, but not that often) It is your fault for having a negative attitude. You blame others for your mistakes too. You die 10 times a game and think you're a god? Please, wake up. You say its your teams fault that you die 10 times? Don't fight a fight when you think you wouldn't win it, or that fight is not worth it. If someone flames you for not joining the fight, let them do it, it's not your deal. You would climb quickly enough if you play smart. You won't climb with a bad attitude. I speak from experience. I was stuck in silver for 1 and a half year in season 3 - 4
> [{quoted}](name=TaliyahToMaster,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aa8YqtRx,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-01-02T23:29:45.975+0000) > > No player is worthless. Some player are just worse than others.You're not good enough to call anyone worthless to be honest. > The reason why you lose games is not only your team (sometimes it is, but not that often) It is your fault for having a negative attitude. You blame others for your mistakes too. > You die 10 times a game and think you're a god? Please, wake up. > You say its your teams fault that you die 10 times? Don't fight a fight when you think you wouldn't win it, or that fight is not worth it. If someone flames you for not joining the fight, let them do it, it's not your deal. You would climb quickly enough if you play smart. You won't climb with a bad attitude. I speak from experience. I was stuck in silver for 1 and a half year in season 3 - 4 Your comment is worthless. It did nothing to help. You furthered a lie that RIOT tells you. Nothing more.
Iriya (OCE)
: AutoFill decreases the QUALITY of competition in Ranked games
Agree completely. Autofill is completely unacceptable in a competitive environment. QUALITY > QUANTITY Shame RIOT doesn't understand that simple concept.
: How can I improve at this complex game?
Stop watching youtubers. Odds are they're doing stupid shit that can get you banned. Getting better requires hours put in and thinking about how to optimize your champion's success. Asking myself questions like this made me better: 1. Where should I ward? 2. How does my champion deal the most damage in the least amount of time? 3. How do I cs most effectively? Or clear the jungle quickest... 4. What items am I building next? Why? Can I get a different item and help a struggling lane? 5. Where should I roam? When? 6. What objective should be taken next? 7. WHERE SHOULD I WARD??? 8. WHERE SHOULD I WARD??? GET A CONTROL WARD... USE IT... PLACE IT... IF IT DIES GET ANOTHER... 9. DID YOU GET A WARD YET???? 10. Know which champions can counter you and why they counter you. 11. USE THE MAP. USE THE MAP... USE THE MAP... USE THE MAP!!!! There's a couple more that are role specific like when do I gank? Which lane... why... All of this is helped by math and knowing what time in the game things can and should happen.
: When is it going to change?
Oh look... terribads downvoted me... surprise surprise!
Rioter Comments
: Champion Select Dodging
Dodging is essential to gaining ranks. When you know the game is lost in champ select we shouldn't be forced to play the game.
: Who's Hotter?
ONLY LEE SIN QUESTION I NEED ANSWERING IS WHEN HE'S GOING TO BE NERFED LIKE HE'S NEEDED FOR 6+ SEASONS.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Enselus1Reformed,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=bB9HiQIU,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-02T02:38:02.913+0000) > > Would hardly affect queue times. Do you not remember teambuilder
> [{quoted}](name=Social Justice 1,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=bB9HiQIU,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-02T02:58:49.442+0000) > > Do you not remember teambuilder Yes, it was my favorite mode. Perfect? No. But I could play the champ and role I wanted to play. Which is what most people want to do. It was a great mode that needed advancement in order to become the best method to queue. However, it was abandoned for the reason that "no one used it". The current queue isn't better or worse than a normal draft. It's just different. It doesn't lock in your role, it doesn't change the amount of trolling (an in fact, at current, is increasing it) it doesn't allow a team to coordinate an effective strategy or decide they don't want to play with someone's strategy that the team doesn't accept. It's simply a repackaged piece of crap that has failed over and over. We need a MUCH better queue process, match making process and team building process. The current abomination focuses on individual's carrying because it's the only way people advance ranked because it's completely impossible (from the very start, champ select) to play as a team appropriately. It's maddening that RIOT has chosen Quantity > Quality in nearly every crossroads.
Rioter Comments
Kei143 (NA)
: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ydAqrpb4-ghostcrawler-and-his-failures?comment=000e
> [{quoted}](name=Kei143,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=gG0seXW8,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-01T10:54:59.436+0000) > > http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ydAqrpb4-ghostcrawler-and-his-failures?comment=000e Wow... I'm hoping they don't screw this up... Interesting to say the least.
: What is Camille's dance called?
She's just scissoring... {{sticker:zombie-nunu-hearts}}
: > [{quoted}](name=xReadyPlayerOnex,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xgfR4gtn,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2016-12-31T20:26:34.705+0000) > > So we should listen to the tooth fairy... that same creep that hoards people's teeth and gives us money for them like they're a commodity trader... > > Seems right that you shouldn't listen to science in this case... > > {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} so rengar has a bone tooth necklace and it's okay, but a fairy does it IN EXCHANGE FOR MONEY AND NOT LIVES and suddenly I'M the bad guy???
> [{quoted}](name=Kokolo,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xgfR4gtn,comment-id=0005000100000000,timestamp=2016-12-31T21:25:00.021+0000) > > so rengar has a bone tooth necklace and it's okay, but a fairy does it IN EXCHANGE FOR MONEY AND NOT LIVES and suddenly I'M the bad guy??? You sir, are a PROFESSIONAL Troll. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
Kei143 (NA)
: its coming back. tribunal 2.0 is set to also interact with honors system.
> [{quoted}](name=Kei143,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=gG0seXW8,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-31T13:44:14.872+0000) > > its coming back. tribunal 2.0 is set to also interact with honors system. Do you have a link to this from a red?
: > [{quoted}](name=xReadyPlayerOnex,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=LzhEuJph,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-31T20:29:19.624+0000) > > They were never that good to begin with... > > Sorry but the gaming industry on a whole is a huge fuck you in place of customer service. > > I think it has something to do with you being a felon if you break their Terms of Service. > > That's a fun one to ponder. You're literally capable of being prosecuted and convicted as a felon if you break RIOT's ToS. Which includes player behavior. > > So, downhill... no clue, I don't see them anywhere on the hill. Damn, that's terrible, I really thought better of them, but I guess it's as long as they make an image out of themselves.
> [{quoted}](name=Devils never cry,realm=EUW,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=LzhEuJph,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-12-31T20:34:53.553+0000) > > Damn, that's terrible, I really thought better of them, but I guess it's as long as they make an image out of themselves. Yeah, this is a bit extreme but it's why people fight for net neutrality. Literally everyone is a felon by the current law. Which means companies have to do absolutely nothing for a customer if it breaks their ToS. Because you're a criminal whether you know it or not. But somehow our presidential debates come down to who is going to pay for people's college and whether or not we build a wall.... We shouldn't even consider the internet and the policies companies adapt purely because of how it's set up. Do you know that the only reason you don't have a right to recourse when RIOT does what they did to you because their ToS allows for them to do anything without any reason at all? And that literally means that they can assume you broke their ToS without any evidence whatsoever and take actions within their ability because in the eyes of a court you're a felon... for doing absolutely nothing.
: Has riot player support gone down in quality? * /r/leagueoflegends
They were never that good to begin with... Sorry but the gaming industry on a whole is a huge fuck you in place of customer service. I think it has something to do with you being a felon if you break their Terms of Service. That's a fun one to ponder. You're literally capable of being prosecuted and convicted as a felon if you break RIOT's ToS. Which includes player behavior. It definitely includes your example. But they can't prove you did it. Only that the account did it. And RIOT sees no difference in these two. Because they're a part of the shittiest customer service experience we've ever seen in this or any industry. So, downhill... no clue, I don't see them anywhere on the hill. The only thing I can say they do... is that they respond. Which isn't customer service to me.
: > [{quoted}](name=xReadyPlayerOnex,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xgfR4gtn,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-12-30T14:50:13.815+0000) > > Guys... I'm a Chemist. > > I assure you. Water is wet. By the definition of wet. > > There's no debate. It's a fact. This guy's spreading a falsehood. Right and I'm the tooth fairy and I say water isn't wet
> [{quoted}](name=Kokolo,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xgfR4gtn,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2016-12-31T02:34:17.476+0000) > > Right and I'm the tooth fairy > and I say water isn't wet So we should listen to the tooth fairy... that same creep that hoards people's teeth and gives us money for them like they're a commodity trader... Seems right that you shouldn't listen to science in this case... {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
: > [{quoted}](name=xReadyPlayerOnex,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=00090000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-30T06:12:43.122+0000) > > If you saved that $10k. What would you have done with it? Did it go into savings? A vacation? A new car? Maybe toward an unexpected medical bill? > It'll go into stocks and I'll turn that 10k into 20k within a year. But, that also requires luck and I'd say that so far I've been lucky.
> [{quoted}](name=Sky of Smiles,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=000900000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-30T18:34:53.114+0000) > > It'll go into stocks and I'll turn that 10k into 20k within a year. But, that also requires luck and I'd say that so far I've been lucky. In a year? In the stock market? Who the hell are you? Bernie Madoff? Oh wait, even he couldn't double your investment in a year... and he was legit lying about it in the worst way. Average is about 7.5% which doubles your money in roughly 10 years. And that doesn't count in time value of money or other factors which cost you money around playing the stock market. Please... lie to me. Because the luck you're talking about is akin to gamblers luck.
: > [{quoted}](name=xReadyPlayerOnex,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=000900000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-30T06:22:05.123+0000) > > Exactly! > > You didn't come up with $200k by saving 1500 a year for no other reason than you shouldn't have a luxury car. You had a plan... you "created an opportunity to build wealth" and executed upon it. You didn't save or skimp or fail to do so. You did it with purpose and goal to generate a greater sum. However, you also didn't get $200k by saving on an income of $35k with expenses such as I mentioned in other posts. You didn't have 95% of your income accounted for and chose to save that last 5% as opposed to spending it on a nicer car. You had a sum of "extra" money that you could create and decided it would be better spent elsewhere. You still decided to spend the money. You just decided to do it another way. > > My point to the OP was that saving isn't greater than spending. It's that spending it how you want to spend it is everyone's constitutional right. And that some people want to use it for a luxury car, others for a latte and others for investment capital. How you spend it is up to you. But that Suze Orman Penny pincher crap just bugs me, specially when it's married with a person who's specifically arguing that those who spend vs. saving are ignorant and common. No, my initial was like around 50k. My partner was older than me by like 10yrs, but didn't have the knowledge I had (or the hard work ethic). Glad we sold it when we did to our local competitors who's business was hurting because of us. Lets take that mindset you have and expand on it. 1. You spend an extra 130 a month for a better car that you need for work - $1560/yr 2. You spend an extra $3 each day for a cup of grande coffee from Starbucks - $1095 3. You spend $10 each day for lunch instead of bagging it for $2.50 - assuming 5days a week for 50weeks that leads to $1850 4. You also spend an extra $20 each month because you don't care about your utilities usage - $240 5. You spend $500 each week on college girls cause you're lonely and maybe up to $1000 for 4 holidays - $28000 That mentality alone can cost up to $32745 a year for things that aren't going to last or something you can do with less. That's my argument. Take it or leave it - up to you.
> [{quoted}](name=Sky of Smiles,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=0009000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-30T18:50:15.434+0000) > > No, my initial was like around 50k. My partner was older than me by like 10yrs, but didn't have the knowledge I had (or the hard work ethic). Glad we sold it when we did to our local competitors who's business was hurting because of us. > > Lets take that mindset you have and expand on it. > > 1. You spend an extra 130 a month for a better car that you need for work - $1560/yr > 2. You spend an extra $3 each day for a cup of grande coffee from Starbucks - $1095 > 3. You spend $10 each day for lunch instead of bagging it for $2.50 - assuming 5days a week for 50weeks that leads to $1850 > 4. You also spend an extra $20 each month because you don't care about your utilities usage - $240 > 5. You spend $500 each week on college girls cause you're lonely and maybe up to $1000 for 4 holidays - $28000 > > That mentality alone can cost up to $32745 a year for things that aren't going to last or something you can do with less. That's my argument. Take it or leave it - up to you. LOL 28k of your 33k is from $500 a week extra in college girls... 1. I've never had to spend so much on getting college chicks... 2. 5k a year extra takes you 10 years to get 50k. 3. As I said... you had extra income that you chose to spend elsewhere on a moneymaking opportunity. You didn't save it. You spent it. Saving is an absurd concept in most situations. As proven by your example. Obviously blowing $2000+ a month on college bimbo's isn't helping you save for a capital investment. But it's still everyone's right to spend their money that way. It's no more or less good than your decision. Did it generate more happiness for you? I hope so. But I know a few guys that'd easily be happier getting a different college aged girl every night.
: > [{quoted}](name=xReadyPlayerOnex,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xgfR4gtn,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-12-30T14:50:13.815+0000) > > Guys... I'm a Chemist. > > I assure you. Water is wet. By the definition of wet. > > There's no debate. It's a fact. This guy's spreading a falsehood. Why? That doesn't make sense based on the definition
> [{quoted}](name=The MechE,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xgfR4gtn,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-12-30T18:11:44.004+0000) > > Why? That doesn't make sense based on the definition Wet: covered or saturated with water or another liquid. Wet means it's covered or saturated with water... in other words the very existence of water means it's wet. It saturates and covers itself.
: "Shaco takes skill"
Cause you still have to sit in the bush and force your clone to attack something relevant....
Rioter Comments
: Is it racist if you have racial preferences you want or do not want in your partner(s)?
Our personal decisions and reasonings behind choosing sexual and life partners are our own. Let's not judge them.
: fact: water is not wet
Guys... I'm a Chemist. I assure you. Water is wet. By the definition of wet. There's no debate. It's a fact. This guy's spreading a falsehood.
: > [{quoted}](name=xReadyPlayerOnex,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=0009000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-12-30T05:44:39.628+0000) > > Which one? Depends on what we were trying to accomplish. > > One cost all of $50 in filing fees with the state and irs. Others we raised millions. Depends what's necessary and practical at the time. > > And I really don't get what you're saying. At all. When I started a business while I was in college with a friend of mines, our initial capital cost was around $200k back in 2010. We sold it to a competitor a few months later for profit. My capital investment was possible due to many years of holding off on buying fancy shit. I think we both agree on not making stupid financial decisions, but people are free to do so as long as they take the consequences of their own decisions. For me, if the decision can lead to a possible mitigation on one's ability to capitalize on an investment opportunity later on in the future, then the decision is best avoided such as buying a snickers as opposed to cooking dinner. For you, that dollar on that snickers probably would go to coffee the next day if it wasn't spent on candy, so it didn't matter.
> [{quoted}](name=Sky of Smiles,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=00090000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-12-30T06:00:50.493+0000) > > When I started a business while I was in college with a friend of mines, our initial capital cost was around $200k back in 2010. We sold it to a competitor a few months later for profit. My capital investment was possible due to many years of holding off on buying fancy shit. > > I think we both agree on not making stupid financial decisions, but people are free to do so as long as they take the consequences of their own decisions. For me, if the decision can lead to a possible mitigation on one's ability to capitalize on an investment opportunity later on in the future, then the decision is best avoided such as buying a snickers as opposed to cooking dinner. For you, that dollar on that snickers probably would go to coffee the next day if it wasn't spent on candy, so it didn't matter. Exactly! You didn't come up with $200k by saving 1500 a year for no other reason than you shouldn't have a luxury car. You had a plan... you "created an opportunity to build wealth" and executed upon it. You didn't save or skimp or fail to do so. You did it with purpose and goal to generate a greater sum. However, you also didn't get $200k by saving on an income of $35k with expenses such as I mentioned in other posts. You didn't have 95% of your income accounted for and chose to save that last 5% as opposed to spending it on a nicer car. You had a sum of "extra" money that you could create and decided it would be better spent elsewhere. You still decided to spend the money. You just decided to do it another way. My point to the OP was that saving isn't greater than spending. It's that spending it how you want to spend it is everyone's constitutional right. And that some people want to use it for a luxury car, others for a latte and others for investment capital. How you spend it is up to you. But that Suze Orman Penny pincher crap just bugs me, specially when it's married with a person who's specifically arguing that those who spend vs. saving are ignorant and common.
: > [{quoted}](name=xReadyPlayerOnex,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=000900000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-30T05:27:34.111+0000) > > That's not what the OP or I am talking about at all. > > In order to accrue that sum they'd need to save 33,000.00 a year over 30 years. Which, from what I'm talking about, is 100% or more of the income most people make. It's not coming from pinching pennies with a low income. It's coming from choosing to set aside a percentage of their paycheck which was in fact "extra" money. My whole point against the OP is that they belittle those who specifically can't make that choice and judge those who chose not to spend the same extra you speak about on something they want. > > I don't know why you're over simplifying my points but it's your prerogative. I stand by what I said. It's people's right to spend extra on something they might enjoy. It isn't acceptable however that someone belittles people for making those decisions. I told the OP, their decisions wasn't better or worse. It was simply easier because of their circumstances. > > The OP consistently uses the word plebeian to insult people and has done so here. It's quite obvious they see any financial rationale that differs from their own as poor, ignorant and beneath them. Which isn't the case at all. They assume things that are blatantly false and I stand by that saving $130 on a car payment each month won't make or break the majority of people. It won't even change their income, savings or finances in almost any meaningful way. The title of the post is about saving up $5000... doing it the way they suggest takes 3.5 years and in order to compensate for Time Value of Money it should be 4.2 years at best. And that assumes that they don't have other debts that would negate that savings. > > I know a lot about credit and finance. I've lived it, I've learned it, I've helped people through it and listened to those who didn't make it all the time. Everyone's circumstances are different but we are all a part of the same financial system. It is not an easy system to be a part of and those who are blessed with easy decisions shouldn't belittle those who have had harder ones to make. I've said it a couple times now. Saving a dime here and there isn't going to change people's lives. It's unfortunately true. I wish it weren't. I wish you could cut back on a few things and make a meaningful change to your life. But it's a fallacy that's been sold to us by the largest companies in the world. Generating wealth and enriching your life financially starts with creating opportunities to gain wealth. > > Simplified in the extreme: > > Say you have $10. > > You want to buy a snickers for $1. But you don't. You figure you can wait till dinner. > > SAVING THAT DOLLAR DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT YOU ONLY HAVE $10. > > But if you take that $10 and buy lemons and sugar... and turn it into $35 with a lemonade stand... THAT is wealth building. And arguably if you invest the $10 it gains interest... but I think we're all able to do the math on what 0.01% interest yields... > > This logic holds true for nearly any amount of money under 100k. There's reasons for that but it's not what most people deal with regularly. Did I lose you or did this make more sense? You're right in that people have the right to spend their money however they wish. I won't argue you're wrong about penny pinching, but I would argue that you're underestimating how much of their money goes wasted over the course of the year enjoying those small pleasures. I'm ashamed to say that from my count for last year alone, even though I didn't do much cloth shopping in terms of time, I've burned over $10k cause of how often I never bothered to bring in left overs for lunch at work, I wanted french designer eye wear, gas cause I drove as opposed to taking public transportation just to save maybe 1hr a day or 6hrs a week - so much useless shit.
> [{quoted}](name=Sky of Smiles,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=0009000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-30T05:50:05.171+0000) > > You're right in that people have the right to spend their money however they wish. I won't argue you're wrong about penny pinching, but I would argue that you're underestimating how much of their money goes wasted over the course of the year enjoying those small pleasures. I'm ashamed to say that from my count for last year alone, even though I didn't do much cloth shopping in terms of time, I've burned over $10k cause of how often I never bothered to bring in left overs for lunch at work, I wanted french designer eye wear, gas cause I drove as opposed to taking public transportation just to save maybe 1hr a day or 6hrs a week - so much useless shit. And you had every right to do it. There's no reason you should be judged for any of that. Even by yourself. You chose to live your life. If your lesson was "let's bring in leftovers"... then do it or not. That's all I'm really saying. There's no point any of us should be judged for spending what we make, how we want to spend it. Because it doesn't change much if we simply chose not to spend and saved it or spent it on other things. Even saving that $10k. Wouldn't change the fact that you made X + 10,000. You make what you make. And that's really my point. There's nothing in "saving" money that changes our lives. It really doesn't matter much. On paper, it can. Because $1500 sounds pretty good to have around (as in the OP's example). But it's false logic which equates spending a few extra dollars with failing to build wealth or that those who do are spending beyond their means. If you saved that $10k. What would you have done with it? Did it go into savings? A vacation? A new car? Maybe toward an unexpected medical bill? The idea is that you still only have that $10k. And you shouldn't feel bad for spending it. It was YOURS to spend. There's a lot of rudeness people get into about money and I feel like one of the worst ones is when people judge each other on what they get. Do I want french glasses? No. I chose to get Lasik. Do I want to take the bus? No, I got a nice car because I have a shitty commute and don't want to spend it with people smushed together in the middle of NYC rush hour. Did I brown bag it as much as I should? No. I did what you did. Does that make either of us bad? Poor financial decision makers? NO. It means we're people who used the money we had to do what we wanted. TO PURSUE HAPPINESS like our forefathers wrote about. People lose their humanity when they talk about finance and numbers and such these days and it's my single biggest pet peeve. We are not capable of being boiled down to whether or not we spend an extra $130 a month. Regardless of what we spent it on.
: fact: water is not wet
Wet: covered or saturated with water or another liquid. Water is, by definition, always wet. It saturates itself. Therefore it's wet. While your idea about our experience in water is interesting (although not wholly correct) the title is not a fact and is completely false. This seems like an example of "don't believe everything you hear on the internet".
Mokkun (NA)
: Why would I buy a $20k car? I don't need a new car, and I don't need a payment = half of a rent check. You can pay less than 10k for a car that will last 10 years, and pay $100 ish a month for it. Never mind a fraction of that for a car that will last less time. Although your initial statistic is for the world, but your rant is about Americans. Last I checked, the average wealth(value) of Americans is like 30-40k, but that's mostly due to owning houses and having equity.
> [{quoted}](name=Mokkun,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2016-12-30T05:42:29.232+0000) > > Why would I buy a $20k car? I don't need a new car, and I don't need a payment = half of a rent check. > > You can pay less than 10k for a car that will last 10 years, and pay $100 ish a month for it. > > Never mind a fraction of that for a car that will last less time. > > > Although your initial statistic is for the world, but your rant is about Americans. Last I checked, the average wealth(value) of Americans is like 30-40k, but that's mostly due to owning houses and having equity. Mostly, I think the OP was trolling and intended to be insulting. Their use of pleb emphasized that for me and it's why I told them their financial choices haven't been better than anyone else's. They've simply been easier. And even then, I'm giving the OP too much credit.
: > [{quoted}](name=xReadyPlayerOnex,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=00090000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-30T02:52:46.818+0000) > > How so? I'd like to know what you mean by dangerous... because it hasn't been dangerous for me. My philosophy has built a large business. > > It's a fallacy that saving money on recurring expenses gains wealth. It's not something I made up. It's a fact. You can't gain 45k over 30 years and expect it to do anything more than giving you a few extra bucks. To do what? I don't know. But it's not worth much in the grand scheme of things. Should your expenses be optimized? Sure. But what the OP is talking about isn't that. They don't care about the bigger, better car. They care about the extra $130 a month. That's what makes them happy. As I explained to them. It's not what makes most people happy. And that's one of the single most important things about our country. The right to pursue happiness. > > It just bugs me when people think they're supposed to scrimp and save and pray they'll make it month to month. It's a horrid mentality to have and it's depressing to undertake. Average household income in the country is 50k. But divide that by 3 and you know it's not enough to live. It's a complete lie to tell people in that situation that saving a dime here and there will do anything. Trust me. Most already did. It's not a revelation to suggest that you should choose a lower car payment if you can't quite afford it. How much capital did it take to start your business? Do you get what I'm saying?
> [{quoted}](name=Sky of Smiles,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=000900000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-12-30T05:07:40.378+0000) > > How much capital did it take to start your business? Do you get what I'm saying? Which one? Depends on what we were trying to accomplish. One cost all of $50 in filing fees with the state and irs. Others we raised millions. Depends what's necessary and practical at the time. And I really don't get what you're saying. At all.
: > [{quoted}](name=xReadyPlayerOnex,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=0009000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-30T03:19:25.955+0000) > > That's a choice. It's not building wealth. With most "investments" and i'll assume the ways most people invest this sum of money such as cd's, bonds, savings accounts money markets and such there's almost no gain. The percents barely keep up with cost of living and you sacrifice Time Value of Money for lack of a better method of growth. > > Did it increase how much money you'd have now or significantly increase the amount you'll have in the future? > > You're paying down the loans quicker. Fine. That's thousands toward a loan that would exist either way. When do you gain all that money back? And truly get it back and make money on it. The real answer is fairly depressing as it's usually decades later. > > When does that decision create more wealth for you? Because most often, in most cases, it doesn't in any meaningful amount of time and the Time Value of money will erase any gain you might see in the future. > > Should you spend way beyond your means? No. But if the choice is buy a toyota for 320 or a lexus for 450... I'm going with the lexus. Because it makes me happy. That $130 a month extra makes me happy. It's the best $130 a month I'd spend. Wouldn't be for everyone... but it's how I chose to spend my money. And I think people who nitpick about and judge others about how they spend their money like the OP are dead wrong. You're using micro sums towards paying for relatively large capital investments to justify your argument without acknowledging there is a difference between spending $130 extra each month on a lease for a more dependable car than spending $130 more each month simply to enjoy short temporary moments like stupidly overpriced coffee.
> [{quoted}](name=Sky of Smiles,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=00090000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-12-30T05:26:02.250+0000) > > You're using micro sums towards paying for relatively large capital investments to justify your argument without acknowledging there is a difference between spending $130 extra each month on a lease for a more dependable car than spending $130 more each month simply to enjoy short temporary moments like stupidly overpriced coffee. The amount "saved" or spent and the reasoning for doing so is irrelevant. I used them as examples. Nothing more. As I told someone else it's as easy as seeing it this way: You have $10. Deciding not to have a snickers... or to buy a sandwich. Doesn't change the fact that you only have $10.
Cloud273 (NA)
: Lee Sin has overcentalized jungle for years...
So the logic... after years of Lee Sin dominating the map without any real disadvantage... is to attack thresh... who is purely good at his job because of his utility... Lee Sin mains so smaht...
: > [{quoted}](name=WE WUZ KANGS,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=sbHP2Wvy,comment-id=001500000000,timestamp=2016-12-29T19:15:57.112+0000) > > if he feeds a whole game though where does the skill to win come from? i get that he gets 100% crit and that can be annoying, his passive is far better than any other AD champion's in the game, but he has to be at least somewhat skilled to carry in his respective ELO I mean he has the lowest skill cap.
> [{quoted}](name=Whitney Houston,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=sbHP2Wvy,comment-id=0015000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-29T19:41:02.884+0000) > > I mean he has the lowest skill cap. I'd argue he has the lowest skill ceiling. Not the lowest skill cap. Skill cap would suggest you lane with him perfectly, execute kills and ganks perfectly and can pull off combo's perfectly. Something most Yasou's don't do and are very incapable of doing. Can they get his two items, spam q and ult? Yes. Can they windwall a lot of skillshots? Yes. Can they dash with e and be horribly annoying and hard to hit? Yes. But that's hardly skillcapped. Skill Ceiling on him is really low. You get those items and then smash minions and champs. Sure. But it's not really skill capped. Easiest skill cap I think is Garen. Figure out when to shield and silence and run over the enemy team like a train. Tough stuff.
: > [{quoted}](name=xReadyPlayerOnex,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=0009000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-30T03:19:25.955+0000) > > That's a choice. It's not building wealth. With most "investments" and i'll assume the ways most people invest this sum of money such as cd's, bonds, savings accounts money markets and such there's almost no gain. The percents barely keep up with cost of living and you sacrifice Time Value of Money for lack of a better method of growth. > > Did it increase how much money you'd have now or significantly increase the amount you'll have in the future? > > You're paying down the loans quicker. Fine. That's thousands toward a loan that would exist either way. When do you gain all that money back? And truly get it back and make money on it. The real answer is fairly depressing as it's usually decades later. > > When does that decision create more wealth for you? Because most often, in most cases, it doesn't in any meaningful amount of time and the Time Value of money will erase any gain you might see in the future. > > Should you spend way beyond your means? No. But if the choice is buy a toyota for 320 or a lexus for 450... I'm going with the lexus. Because it makes me happy. That $130 a month extra makes me happy. It's the best $130 a month I'd spend. Wouldn't be for everyone... but it's how I chose to spend my money. And I think people who nitpick about and judge others about how they spend their money like the OP are dead wrong. believe what you want One set of my grandparents amassed assets worth over 1 million simply by putting investing a little bit from every paycheck
> [{quoted}](name=notFREEfood,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=00090000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-30T04:49:48.453+0000) > > believe what you want > > One set of my grandparents amassed assets worth over 1 million simply by putting investing a little bit from every paycheck That's not what the OP or I am talking about at all. In order to accrue that sum they'd need to save 33,000.00 a year over 30 years. Which, from what I'm talking about, is 100% or more of the income most people make. It's not coming from pinching pennies with a low income. It's coming from choosing to set aside a percentage of their paycheck which was in fact "extra" money. My whole point against the OP is that they belittle those who specifically can't make that choice and judge those who chose not to spend the same extra you speak about on something they want. I don't know why you're over simplifying my points but it's your prerogative. I stand by what I said. It's people's right to spend extra on something they might enjoy. It isn't acceptable however that someone belittles people for making those decisions. I told the OP, their decisions wasn't better or worse. It was simply easier because of their circumstances. The OP consistently uses the word plebeian to insult people and has done so here. It's quite obvious they see any financial rationale that differs from their own as poor, ignorant and beneath them. Which isn't the case at all. They assume things that are blatantly false and I stand by that saving $130 on a car payment each month won't make or break the majority of people. It won't even change their income, savings or finances in almost any meaningful way. The title of the post is about saving up $5000... doing it the way they suggest takes 3.5 years and in order to compensate for Time Value of Money it should be 4.2 years at best. And that assumes that they don't have other debts that would negate that savings. I know a lot about credit and finance. I've lived it, I've learned it, I've helped people through it and listened to those who didn't make it all the time. Everyone's circumstances are different but we are all a part of the same financial system. It is not an easy system to be a part of and those who are blessed with easy decisions shouldn't belittle those who have had harder ones to make. I've said it a couple times now. Saving a dime here and there isn't going to change people's lives. It's unfortunately true. I wish it weren't. I wish you could cut back on a few things and make a meaningful change to your life. But it's a fallacy that's been sold to us by the largest companies in the world. Generating wealth and enriching your life financially starts with creating opportunities to gain wealth. Simplified in the extreme: Say you have $10. You want to buy a snickers for $1. But you don't. You figure you can wait till dinner. SAVING THAT DOLLAR DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT YOU ONLY HAVE $10. But if you take that $10 and buy lemons and sugar... and turn it into $35 with a lemonade stand... THAT is wealth building. And arguably if you invest the $10 it gains interest... but I think we're all able to do the math on what 0.01% interest yields... This logic holds true for nearly any amount of money under 100k. There's reasons for that but it's not what most people deal with regularly. Did I lose you or did this make more sense?
: If you could be any Pokemon, what would you be?
Snorlax... Sleeping sounds awesome.... Since I suffer from insomnia.
: > [{quoted}](name=xReadyPlayerOnex,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=00090000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-30T02:52:46.818+0000) > > It's a fallacy that saving money on recurring expenses gains wealth. I choose not to have a car - this lets me pay off my loans more aggressively. Once those are paid off I can then turn around and invest that money. how is saving money on recurring expenses generating wealth a fallacy?
> [{quoted}](name=notFREEfood,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=000900000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-30T03:06:12.390+0000) > > I choose not to have a car - this lets me pay off my loans more aggressively. Once those are paid off I can then turn around and invest that money. > > how is saving money on recurring expenses generating wealth a fallacy? That's a choice. It's not building wealth. With most "investments" and i'll assume the ways most people invest this sum of money such as cd's, bonds, savings accounts money markets and such there's almost no gain. The percents barely keep up with cost of living and you sacrifice Time Value of Money for lack of a better method of growth. Did it increase how much money you'd have now or significantly increase the amount you'll have in the future? You're paying down the loans quicker. Fine. That's thousands toward a loan that would exist either way. When do you gain all that money back? And truly get it back and make money on it. The real answer is fairly depressing as it's usually decades later. When does that decision create more wealth for you? Because most often, in most cases, it doesn't in any meaningful amount of time and the Time Value of money will erase any gain you might see in the future. Should you spend way beyond your means? No. But if the choice is buy a toyota for 320 or a lexus for 450... I'm going with the lexus. Because it makes me happy. That $130 a month extra makes me happy. It's the best $130 a month I'd spend. Wouldn't be for everyone... but it's how I chose to spend my money. And I think people who nitpick about and judge others about how they spend their money like the OP are dead wrong.
: > [{quoted}](name=xReadyPlayerOnex,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-29T22:45:44.562+0000) > > Does it pay well? I don't know. Considering it at the moment if not for polishing resumes so much as to expand my horizon. I know some of my friends got better jobs while going to grad school and then dropped out. We're talking they went from making like $40k/yr to around $60k/yr (a few years ago). I'm at like 60 atm. I know if I P.E., I can push it to like around $200k cause then I can offer my design skills at the side in NYC and most engineering consulting firms really just "copy and paste" solutions, but that's like years from now. Jobs I've gotten call backs from for design in HVAC/R were only offering around $40k/yr for an EIT. They want me because they know I got an edge with my field perspective, but they don't want to pay for me. I don't care how I get treated, but I expect to be fairly compensated. Treating me kindly doesn't mean I will accept going above and beyond for someone who's paying me the same as some secretary who's on the phone all day. Gotta make more money for the honeys :)
> [{quoted}](name=Sky of Smiles,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=00070000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-30T01:41:27.329+0000) > > I don't know. Considering it at the moment if not for polishing resumes so much as to expand my horizon. > > I know some of my friends got better jobs while going to grad school and then dropped out. We're talking they went from making like $40k/yr to around $60k/yr (a few years ago). I'm at like 60 atm. I know if I P.E., I can push it to like around $200k cause then I can offer my design skills at the side in NYC and most engineering consulting firms really just "copy and paste" solutions, but that's like years from now. > > Jobs I've gotten call backs from for design in HVAC/R were only offering around $40k/yr for an EIT. They want me because they know I got an edge with my field perspective, but they don't want to pay for me. I don't care how I get treated, but I expect to be fairly compensated. Treating me kindly doesn't mean I will accept going above and beyond for someone who's paying me the same as some secretary who's on the phone all day. > > Gotta make more money for the honeys :) Ain't that the truth. Good luck. Pays more than most jobs at least. Still probably harsh if you're trying to pay tuition, a car, a cell phone, rent...
: > [{quoted}](name=xReadyPlayerOnex,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2016-12-29T22:55:23.000+0000) > > To what? > > Even this extreme car payment example... Nets only $1560. Sorry, but $1500 has never changed my life. Not even if I had it every year, for 30 years. That's only $45,000. During that time you make $1.1 Million even at 37k a year. It's like taking a bucket of water and playing around with an individual dixie cup hoping there's more water in the bucket after you do it. Your train of thought is dangerous.
> [{quoted}](name=Sky of Smiles,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-30T02:07:35.773+0000) > > Your train of thought is dangerous. How so? I'd like to know what you mean by dangerous... because it hasn't been dangerous for me. My philosophy has built a large business. It's a fallacy that saving money on recurring expenses gains wealth. It's not something I made up. It's a fact. You can't gain 45k over 30 years and expect it to do anything more than giving you a few extra bucks. To do what? I don't know. But it's not worth much in the grand scheme of things. Should your expenses be optimized? Sure. But what the OP is talking about isn't that. They don't care about the bigger, better car. They care about the extra $130 a month. That's what makes them happy. As I explained to them. It's not what makes most people happy. And that's one of the single most important things about our country. The right to pursue happiness. It just bugs me when people think they're supposed to scrimp and save and pray they'll make it month to month. It's a horrid mentality to have and it's depressing to undertake. Average household income in the country is 50k. But divide that by 3 and you know it's not enough to live. It's a complete lie to tell people in that situation that saving a dime here and there will do anything. Trust me. Most already did. It's not a revelation to suggest that you should choose a lower car payment if you can't quite afford it.
BlâckLotus (EUNE)
: Perma Banned for this?
DO NOT ASK FOR REPORTS. I don't know what is so hard about this concept. It doesn't effect anything. 1 report or 9... it's the same thing.
: > [{quoted}](name=xReadyPlayerOnex,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=000b00000001,timestamp=2016-12-29T23:12:02.507+0000) > > Can I ask why not? If you can afford it... I don't see why you wouldn't. It's too much a monthly expense for something I'm not really into, I'm not really into cars that much. I feel like its a little too much car for me. I'd be happy in a cheaper or smaller car tbh.
> [{quoted}](name=Whitney Houston,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=000b000000010000,timestamp=2016-12-29T23:36:22.854+0000) > > It's too much a monthly expense for something I'm not really into, I'm not really into cars that much. > I feel like its a little too much car for me. I'd be happy in a cheaper or smaller car tbh. I guess that's my point. Not everyone's happier that way.
NotSid (NA)
: *Guy mentions he plays a console exclusive game*
I don't know... but I really wish they forced pc gamers to use xbox/ps4 controllers if they play games cross platform. OBVIOUSLY they perform better.. They have a fucking mouse...
: > [{quoted}](name=Evangele,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2016-12-29T22:53:17.378+0000) > > {{champion:267}} I have no debt and add to my savings account every month. I also have a program through my bank that puts $1 for every $10 that I spend into savings automatically, it's really cool how fast that adds up and I don't eve notice is going anywhere. :) > > Be smart about what you can afford, pay attention to market values for things such as houses and vehicles and make sure you always have something left for the things that make you happy. I budget going out to a movie once every 2 weeks because I love going out to the movies. > > I think there is a fine line between saving everything and still enjoying yourself. There's no point in having all the money in the world if you never use it for anything you want. You just need to know what you can afford and relate that to what you want. I think my only really bad financial decision was my car loan. (Even though I can comfortably afford it) But I'll pay that up in 3 yrs and its a nice car, but I learned that NEVER AGAIN WILL I BUY A NEW CAR. XD
> [{quoted}](name=Whitney Houston,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2016-12-29T22:56:35.270+0000) > > I think my only really bad financial decision was my car loan. (Even though I can comfortably afford it) > But I'll pay that up in 3 yrs and its a nice car, but I learned that NEVER AGAIN WILL I BUY A NEW CAR. XD Can I ask why not? If you can afford it... I don't see why you wouldn't.
: > [{quoted}](name=xReadyPlayerOnex,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-12-29T22:37:01.617+0000) > > I think you're on a VERY slippery slope. Your entire argument is that people are being stupid, irrational or ignorant when it comes to credit and expenses. Although this accounts for some amount of the problem it doesn't even come close to understanding what goes on and discounts that banks and creditors and credit reporters specifically try to make it harder and harder on people. > > People aren't experts about money. They shouldn't have to be when the institutions they rely on are playing fairly. The problem is that they don't. You can insult people for not understanding the intricacies but it's just adding to the problem. You're not any better than them. Trust me. You've likely just had easier financial decisions. > > And about that last sentence... if you believe that you're just being duped. There's so much evidence against this it's disgusting at this point. These companies are not playing by the rules. They're literally making them up in order to take more of your money. I'm sorry, did I trigger you? Now trolling a side... I don't believe I am better than anybody, and yes, the system is made to "trap" people in an endless circle of debt/interest/borrowmoremuneh Sometimes people are pushed to take loans, sometimes they aren't. But this is 2016. There is SO MANY WAYS TO BECOME EDUCATED ON THINGS. Also when you take a loan you sign so many documents that nobody reads, so yeah when you sign you're agreeing to all those things. A bank doesn't force you to walk into their building and request a loan, the bank doesn't care about what you want... they just want to make money off you. If you borrow 25,000 at a 1.99% interest they'll make around 2,000 in interests. That's what they care about, making money on the interest. They don't care , they do have tons of rules and ways to make sure (usually those papers that you sing) to make sure that they will get back ALL THEIR MONEY plus ALL THEIR INTERESTS. No, I am not better than you... and I do not intend to be, I'm just putting this on a thread hoping that people read and understand, hopefully make better financial decisions that alleviate so much unnecessary stress .
> [{quoted}](name=Whitney Houston,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=xoV6gqPL,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-29T22:54:40.312+0000) > > I'm sorry, did I trigger you? > > Now trolling a side... > > I don't believe I am better than anybody, and yes, the system is made to "trap" people in an endless circle of debt/interest/borrowmoremuneh > Sometimes people are pushed to take loans, sometimes they aren't. > > But this is 2016. There is SO MANY WAYS TO BECOME EDUCATED ON THINGS. > Also when you take a loan you sign so many documents that nobody reads, so yeah when you sign you're agreeing to all those things. > A bank doesn't force you to walk into their building and request a loan, the bank doesn't care about what you want... they just want to make money off you. > > If you borrow 25,000 at a 1.99% interest they'll make around 2,000 in interests. That's what they care about, making money on the interest. > They don't care , they do have tons of rules and ways to make sure (usually those papers that you sing) to make sure that they will get back ALL THEIR MONEY plus ALL THEIR INTERESTS. > > No, I am not better than you... and I do not intend to be, > I'm just putting this on a thread hoping that people read and understand, hopefully make better financial decisions that alleviate so much unnecessary stress . I was merely pointing out flaws to your argument. And you consistently add in plebs... like it's an insult. So I took it at face value. You're also being assumptive on education. It's not fair to ask the average borrower to know anywhere near what goes into their credit decisions (let alone know how to do the calculations) and instead of helping and sheltering people through it there is a huge problem with banks and other forms of lenders preying on these people with utmost callousness. This isn't a pissing contest. It's our lives. It doesn't need to be a better than or worse than. I'm just saying you're wrong when you say saving a little cash here and there is going to help. Better financial decisions don't change much. They're false promises and depressive gutters. I just pointed out that even your example is only $1500 a year difference. Something swallowed up instantly with any unexpected expense. I said it before and I'll say it again. You had easier financial decisions to make. NOT that you made "better" ones. It's an easy assumption to make that correlation and a LOT of people who haven't had the pain of being in true financial hardship do it consistently because they think they simply made "smarter decisions" and "budgeted". It's a lie.
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xReadyPlayerOnex

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