Rioter Comments
BigFBear (EUW)
: It is a matchmaking problem imho. Matchmaking should detect real elos of Smurfs better and faster. Why is a Gold 1 with 90% winrate in 39 games still in a Plat 3 Game? He should be at least in Plat 1 environment if not D4. Smurfs needs way too long to climb through lower elos and thats why these elos are infestet with them right now. And that makes this vicious circle even worse. These Smurfs make lower Elos more RNG and so they need even longer to leave it themself. Not to mention the poor souls who are actual gold or platin player and have to fight vs Dia and Master players all day long.
> [{quoted}](name=BigFBear,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pIEMPjJu,comment-id=002e000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-27T01:35:22.539+0000) > > It is a matchmaking problem imho. > Matchmaking should detect real elos of Smurfs better and faster. > Why is a Gold 1 with 90% winrate in 39 games still in a Plat 3 Game? > He should be at least in Plat 1 environment if not D4. > > Smurfs needs way too long to climb through lower elos and thats why these elos are infestet with them right now. > And that makes this vicious circle even worse. These Smurfs make lower Elos more RNG and so they need even longer to leave it themself. Not to mention the poor souls who are actual gold or platin player and have to fight vs Dia and Master players all day long. Idk if I agree. Win rates can be manipulated through dodging all but perfect games. Winning lower ELO games is also much easier. When I was a P3 level player, I went unranked to P4 with 70% win rate. By that logic, I should probably get P1 but actually I was having difficulty climbing out of P3 and not just due to match making.
: i dont get why ap champs other then Fiddle dont take attack speed runes to help clear the jungle faster , like in your flex runes why not get attack speed to auto faster proc the passive of {{item:1041}} & {{item:1039}} faster? i remember back in the old days for ap junglers normally taking attack speed runes (tanks did this too) to help with 1st clears. it would work on nearly all junglers who arent AD
> [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OigrntYn,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-04-27T02:55:02.259+0000) > > i dont get why ap champs other then Fiddle dont take attack speed runes to help clear the jungle faster , like in your flex runes why not get attack speed to auto faster proc the passive of {{item:1041}} & {{item:1039}} faster? i remember back in the old days for ap junglers normally taking attack speed runes (tanks did this too) to help with 1st clears. it would work on nearly all junglers who arent AD People used to do this all the time in previous seasons when jungle was harder to clear. Now, some still do but you obviously have to sacrifice some scaling and it makes ganks worse too.
iiGazeii (NA)
: Solution: Auto attacks against monsters deal bonus magic damage equal to 60% of your AP when your AP is more than double your bonus AD (just like they do against turrets). Boom. AP champs have jungle clear.
> [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OigrntYn,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-04-27T01:59:32.347+0000) > > Solution: Auto attacks against monsters deal bonus magic damage equal to 60% of your AP when your AP is more than double your bonus AD (just like they do against turrets). > > Boom. AP champs have jungle clear. After Runic Echoes, the clear on the AP champions I play seems more or less fine. It's more that the components themselves are less useful for clearing than AD.
Nhika (NA)
: AP junglers STILL clear too slow.
It's not atrocious but perhaps it's slightly on the weak side. Keep in mind that Luden's costs a lot more than the jungle item so it's not a fair comparison. AD junglers will almost always have an easier time because every single champion has to auto a lot during clearing. Even Eve autos a decent amount. Thus, AD is inherently more useful for that purpose and higher clear speed means more opportunity to invade, rotate fast, gank, take objectives etc.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KYGXW3Os,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-26T18:06:48.942+0000) Pick rate is something we want to be careful about considering heavily in balance discussions (for most solo queue divisions, that is) because we're wary of nerfing champions that players find more fun. Pick rate does have correlation with power at higher mmr though usually. > > See, this is a problem right here. Don't be "wary" about nerfing a champion players find more fun. That's called coddling. You know why a lot of people find something fun? Because its easier to win with. What's more "fun" a gun to pick up in N64's Goldeneye: The Golden Gun or the Klobb? Which one is more fair if only one player can have it in a 1v1? Or if only one can team have it in a 2v2? The FUN of ONE player, is less important than the fun of their FIVE opponents.
> [{quoted}](name=Stróc Dúnmharú,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KYGXW3Os,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-04-26T23:10:45.685+0000) > > Pick rate is something we want to be careful about considering heavily in balance discussions (for most solo queue divisions, that is) because we're wary of nerfing champions that players find more fun. Pick rate does have correlation with power at higher mmr though usually. > > See, this is a problem right here. Don't be "wary" about nerfing a champion players find more fun. That's called coddling. You know why a lot of people find something fun? Because its easier to win with. What's more "fun" a gun to pick up in N64's Goldeneye: The Golden Gun or the Klobb? Which one is more fair if only one player can have it in a 1v1? Or if only one can team have it in a 2v2? > > The FUN of ONE player, is less important than the fun of their FIVE opponents. Not only that but the goal should be a fair game so that ranked means something and the system integrity is preserved (one of the reasons I think duoing should be left to Flex). Bias in balancing works against that goal and devalues League as a respected competitive game. It also threatens its longevity even if imbalances may in the short term be fun to abuse. Fun isn't an objective or permanent thing either. It's relative. I may at first have more fun with a popular OP champion but I'd value the game more and probably have more fun overall if I could completely trust that balance is fair, objective and in a nearly perfect spot. I remember this argument being used to not nerf Lee back when he was clearly OP for competent players. It's pretty laughable and has no place in a balance discussion. Imagine if Blizzard used that as an argument in SC2 for not nerfing or buffing certain races. People trust Blizzard's balancing exactly because they'd never consider such a thing. In fact, they actively removed dozens of units from SC2 because they didn't add enough strategically or were potential balance issues. Even if a champion is popular and thus most players playing it are not good (keeping the win rate down despite the champ being OP), ignoring it is basically looking the other way to what would be correct balance. Still, seeing what's in store for 9.9, balance is going in the right direction.
Velasan (NA)
: Potential fix for Skarner Spires
The spires are the most interesting and strategic thing about the entire champion imo.
Meddler (NA)
: Few Fizz thoughts in tomorrow's post. Gist of it is PBE soonish, but probably not this cycle. Looking at better feeling ways than the current mark to delay some of his damage (stronger DoT, or multicast W or something else again).
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=bz0HUP5U,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-06-14T15:28:10.722+0000) > > Few Fizz thoughts in tomorrow's post. Gist of it is PBE soonish, but probably not this cycle. Looking at better feeling ways than the current mark to delay some of his damage (stronger DoT, or multicast W or something else again). Do you really think Nunun merits a nerf just because of this strategy? I don't even have a problem with Nunu Karthus. The only OP one is Taric-Yi.
Venedictos (EUNE)
: Why are you not entertaining the question of what kind of snowball is preferable? Say towers get beefier and take forever to destroy. Sure. I start killing my enemy laner again and again and again and every time and they are worth less every time I kill them. But because the tower is still there, my snowball remains contained inside my lane and its up to my opponent to keep it contained in it. Time and again we've seen that no matter what lead you acquire in the laning phase, it isn't worth much if you can't translate that into a snowball that affects the entire map and eventually leads your team to victory. So in that case, is it better that I am able to take down the tower much faster right now, shove all the way to T2 tower and then have plenty of time to disrupt the enemy jungler, ward their jungle, provide my team with plenty of useful information without much risk, gank another lane and appear in a skirmish in the map way earlier than the enemy laner? And anyway, yeah sure. Laners can't really intervene because they might be busy in their lanes too. But isn't that what junglers are for? I feel that the reasoning behind not changing the towers is way too shallow. On the side note: Yes, beefier towers do make the game last longer. And there's a lot of people that have complained that games are too fast. There's also a lot of people that enjoy longer games. There's a lot of people that enjoy the late-game fantasy of their mains and they rarely ever get to that point. I don't think 40-45 minute games would be bad or tiring. And if there's too many situations where a game is decided 10-15 minutes earlier than when it actually ends, you've got plenty of levers to pull - Elder Dragon and Baron. Baron can be a raid boss and that could be fine, so long as the rewards it provides are meant for teams that are extremely ahead and want to close out a game or teams that make extremely smart calls.
> [{quoted}](name=Acc3Lerator,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=yUOepEEG,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2018-06-14T21:32:08.766+0000) > > Why are you not entertaining the question of what kind of snowball is preferable? > > Say towers get beefier and take forever to destroy. Sure. I start killing my enemy laner again and again and again and every time and they are worth less every time I kill them. But because the tower is still there, my snowball remains contained inside my lane and its up to my opponent to keep it contained in it. > > Time and again we've seen that no matter what lead you acquire in the laning phase, it isn't worth much if you can't translate that into a snowball that affects the entire map and eventually leads your team to victory. > > So in that case, is it better that I am able to take down the tower much faster right now, shove all the way to T2 tower and then have plenty of time to disrupt the enemy jungler, ward their jungle, provide my team with plenty of useful information without much risk, gank another lane and appear in a skirmish in the map way earlier than the enemy laner? > > And anyway, yeah sure. Laners can't really intervene because they might be busy in their lanes too. But isn't that what junglers are for? > > I feel that the reasoning behind not changing the towers is way too shallow. > > On the side note: Yes, beefier towers do make the game last longer. And there's a lot of people that have complained that games are too fast. There's also a lot of people that enjoy longer games. There's a lot of people that enjoy the late-game fantasy of their mains and they rarely ever get to that point. I don't think 40-45 minute games would be bad or tiring. And if there's too many situations where a game is decided 10-15 minutes earlier than when it actually ends, you've got plenty of levers to pull - Elder Dragon and Baron. Baron can be a raid boss and that could be fine, so long as the rewards it provides are meant for teams that are extremely ahead and want to close out a game or teams that make extremely smart calls. great point! I think top laners especially can relate to this.
Meddler (NA)
: There'll be a post tomorrow as well, though a shorter than usual one since first post of the week's today. AD on the E is there to help incentivize aggressive uses of it and window his damage a bit more when he's not using it. AD on the ult's similar (window of power), plus valuable both as a tuning lever and an important part of satisfaction/theme (super mode that's just OOC MS and revive's a bit lacking otherwise).
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=bz0HUP5U,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-06-14T15:32:04.425+0000) > > There'll be a post tomorrow as well, though a shorter than usual one since first post of the week's today. > > AD on the E is there to help incentivize aggressive uses of it and window his damage a bit more when he's not using it. AD on the ult's similar (window of power), plus valuable both as a tuning lever and an important part of satisfaction/theme (super mode that's just OOC MS and revive's a bit lacking otherwise). Check this video on JG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMgDKcUKGJI Maybe you guys will get some ideas.
Yenn (NA)
: How can anyone on the balance team see champions with 70-90% ban rate and think 'this is fine?'
sometimes, we have to admit that a champ can have a high ban rate without being OP this was often the case for Zed
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=bz0HUP5U,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-06-14T15:20:35.082+0000) > > Hi folks, > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > **Gold Funneling** > > We'll be nerfing gold funneling strategies in 8.13. Gold Funneling, for anyone unfamiliar with the term, is where you give one champion much of the gold/XP from multiple positions. Taric Mid/Yi jungle with Yi getting really farmed, or Karthus mid/Nunu counter jungling, with Karthus taking most of the allied jungle, being current examples. > > The gold funneling we're seeing now results in what's usually a pretty interactive, interesting, and often playmaking lane (mid) becoming very passive, with one laner just doing their best to interact with the other player as little as possible and getting rewarded for that. In cases where the mid laner isn't CSing that problems exacerbated further, since CSing does at least create small windows of vulnerability, earlier in the game especially. While there's likely some counterplay to gold funneling that hasn't emerged yet, we're doubtful it's going to be around as easy to execute as gold funneling itself is or particularly fun/interesting in its own right. We held off on changes to gold funneling initially when it wasn't clear if it was a pretty niche thing that would bring some variety occasionally and be worth a bit of game health cost, or something that would become more dominant and need to be addressed even if it offered strategic variety. Pretty clear at this point it's the later. > > In terms of how we'll address it we're still testing exact tactics. Possible changes include returning the overlevelled XP penalty on jungle camps that got removed in 8.10, individual adjustments to champs like Yi (lane minion damage on Q for example), jungle items giving XP penalties for lane minions to offset the increased XP from jungle monsters etc. Should have more details soon. > > http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png On Gold funneling, just please don't nerf JG more than it already is. The most interesting part of JG was often getting a fast level 3 and invading or ganking. That's already been reduced. It takes me 15 minutes to reach level 10 and frequently 8 to hit level 6. I also don't think there should be an outlevelling farming penalty for camps or lane. This kind of stuff really screws the meta and champs. Sometimes you want to split push as jg or to push with your laner to get a safe back. There are so many things you can mess up with that. What you're seeing is partly a result of JG being nerfed so hard early and thus having less influence in lanes to offset such funneling strategies. Secondly, support items are cheap and strong still. Third, many waveclear champions got nerfed so they struggle even more vs these champions. Mana regen also got nerfed. Don't mess with JG XP or Gold again please. Do you even realize how absurd this gets for jgs? The role feels TERRIBLE when you can't rely on ANYTHING and Riot treats it like an endless beta test. Every season, JG is changed, now mid season we have huge nerfs and many jg routes no longer beinv viable... can't even hit level 3 fast, all randomized again, more RNG added for literally no reason (scuttler spawn should always be known and everyone hates this aspect) etc. It feels like you guys just want to make us suffer at this point lol. Why does JG have to do so much more work to remain relevant every patch? If I main mid lane or top, I don't have to relearn the whole game every few months. Yeah, some items change, but not fundamentals. It's getting ridiculous at this point. It's disrespectful towards people's effort and time. Moreover, it was preventable if you guys grasped the consequences of your own changes better or didn't treat this like an alpha game during a RANKED season. So many changes have been at best neutral and created massive disruption. JG wasn't even OP previously. Lanes were just bad. In competitive, JG was basically a support role. I can't rely on anything you guys do and that's made me essentially give up on taking this game seriously and putting real effort in it. Items, strategies, clear optimizations, EVERYTHING is just in an endless loop of change and often unmotivated and unasked for change too (besides minorities on Reddit and Boards). Nothing can be relied on. There is no foundation. It's like if I play chess and the pieces get different moves half way in the game or the board changes. It's just a waste of time investing in something like that. Games that have longevity and are worth learning, are STABLE. You can trust that you'll have the same rules in 5 years as in the next 5 minutes and your effort in getting coaching, understanding, reading books etc. isn't a total waste. It's no coincidence that this game was taken most seriously and was most respected in the S4 era when things were moving much slower. Remember Reign of Gaming and the detailed analysis posts on items, XP, itemization etc.? Where is that now? People basically gave up because their time investment was disrespected and they can't trust this game to be what they enjoyed or worked on in another few months.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14
Ekko JG still feels a bit weak and the AS loss hurt him too. His play rate is very low so it's mostly mains picking him and quite situationally. He's really weak vs pretty much everything meta and part of that is his clear speed relative to power farmers like Udyr, Shyv, Graves etc. or the weak early compared to many of those same picks and a few others like Kha. He basically gets bullied hard, can't duel even an Eve early and his mid game isn't even on par with stuff like Wu'Kong, Taliyah, Kayn, Nocturne etc., nor is his late game. He all around needs some help, maybe a tiny bit more armor or AS, maybe a tiny bit more damage vs monsters. You guys said you'd be monitoring it and I think he needs SOMETHING to be truly viable outside of just when you have a player who is so massively out-skilling the other jg and so godly on Ekko that he can compensate and still reach only a 50% win rate. If he can't get a good win rate while he has a 0.6% play rate as a champion that's frequently one-tricked, you know he's pretty weak. 5% bonus AS or 3 more armor..., 5% more bonus damage on passive vs monsters... something. We have Taliyah now still being really good when played by a lot of random players just because she's unbanned and then Ekko, a champion who was jungled since release is in a weak state jg and that's why you see that 0.6% play rate. You have to work for that barely 50% win rate 2x harder than anyone playing a decent jungler. The other thing is, where are the Corki buffs (gutted for months since the base AD changes + FF nerfs + crit item changes) or Tristana buffs, Ziggs also still seems on the weak side (granted not terribly so) etc.? I see Xayah buffs and SO many champions are performing way worse than her. Why does she get attention so fast? Maybe she needs them too but the gap between S tier and the rest is so much larger for other champions atm... one of the largest I've seen in probably a year. Where are the Irelia nerfs? Just because she doesn't have an obscene win rate doesn't mean she's OK. She's broken if played by a good player. Zoe is the same and has a poor design imo. You guys gutted AP Kog, who had mobility issues, super weak early, needed 30 minutes to scale and was squishy with no hard CC but you made this soul draining cancerous monstrosity who fishes for one shots half the game from a screen away and without you being able to move? She is disgusting if played by a competent player. Her win rate doesn't means she isn't awful to face and broken beyond belief. I think you guys might believe that 50% win rate means balanced and no it doesn't mean much and neither does 53%. Win rates are mostly about how easy a champion is to execute, how reliable they are, how many comps they fit and so on. It doesn't mean they're fine. For example, WW I expect to have an above 50% win rate because his skill floor (not necessarily skill cap) is low and he tends to be reliably useful in most games even if he is objectively not strong. Lee, I expect to not hit 50% win rate even when he's OP and same with LB or Irelia or Zoe. I'd also say that Wu'Kong, Talon, Udyr and Sol are problems but they aren't played enough for me to be sure. BTW: In general, this meta is too snowbally imo and it's shutting down a lot of the more late game oriented roster. In general, when tanks don't function well, a lot of champions become unviable. The late game monsters generally matter way more when they have a tank to shred as well as a frontline on their team. I feel like there are too many unearned advantages from being ahead. You get so much more than just the gold from some early kills. **EDIT: **Saw Trist included in the list. Glad to see that. Hopefully Corki and others aren't forgotten too. Xayah has large PBE buffs though so if there's some sort of systemic change to help crit. ADCs, it could easily take her over the edge. The other thing is that while crit. ADCs are weak now, some have opted for different build paths and are close to OK. Twitch now goes BoRK first for example and I think Lucian does too. This risks creating a situation where they've itemized differently for early-mid game but still get the late game crit. power as their builds evolve.
: PBE Chat with the Playtest Team - 8.13
Ekko JG still feels a bit weak and the AS loss hurt him too. His play rate is very low so it's mostly mains picking him and quite situationally. He's really weak vs pretty much everything meta and part of that is his clear speed relative to power farmers like Udyr, Shyv, Graves etc. or the weak early compared to many of those same picks and a few others like Kha. He basically gets bullied hard, can't duel even an Eve early and his mid game isn't even on par with stuff like Wu'Kong, Taliyah, Kayn, Nocturne etc., nor is his late game. He all around needs some help, maybe a tiny bit more armor or AS, maybe a tiny bit more damage vs monsters. You guys said you'd be monitoring it and I think it's pretty obvious he needs SOMETHING to be truly viable outside of just when you have a player who is so massively outskilling the other jg and so godly on Ekko that he can compensate and still reach only a 50% win rate. If he can't get a good win rate while he has a 0.6% play rate as a champion that's frequently one-tricked, you know he's pretty weak. 5% bonus AS or 5 more armor..., 5% more bonus damage on passive vs monsters... do something. We have Taliyah now still being really good when played by a lot of random players just because she's unbanned and then Ekko, a champion who was jungled since release is in a weak state jg and that's why you see that 0.6% play rate. You have to work for that barely 50% win rate 2x harder than anyone playing a decent jungler and it's not fair. The other thing is, where are the Corki buffs (gutted for months since the base AD changes + FF nerfs + crit item changes) or Ziggs buffs or Tristana buffs etc.? I see random Xayah buffs and SO many champions are performing way worse than her. Are you guys playing favorites? Maybe she needs them too but the gap between S tier and the rest is so much larger for other champions atm... one of the largest I've seen in probably a year. Where are the Irelia nerfs? Just because she doesn't have an obscene win rate doesn't mean she's OK. She's broken if played by a good player. Zoe is the same and has a poor design imo. You guys gutted AP Kog, who had mobility issues, super weak early, needed 30 minutes to scale and was squishy as shit with no hard CC but you made this soul draining cancerous monstrosity who fishes for one shots half the game from a screen away and without you being able to move? She is disgusting if played by a competent player. Her win rate doesn't means she isn't awful to face and broken beyond belief. I think you guys believe that 50% win rate means balanced and no it doesn't mean shit and neither does 53%. Win rates are mostly about how easy a champion is to execute, how reliable they are, how many comps they fit and so on. It doesn't mean they're fine. For example, WW I expect to have an above 50% win rate because his skill floor (not necessarily skill cap) is low and he tends to be reliably useful in most games even if he is objectively not strong. Lee, I expect to not hit 50% win rate even when he's OP and same with LB or Irelia or Zoe. I'd also say that Wu'Kong, Talon, Udyr and Sol are problems but they aren't played enough for me to be sure. BTW: In general, this meta is too snowbally imo and it's shutting down a lot of the more late game oriented roster. In general, when tanks don't function well, a lot of champions become unviable. The late game monsters generally matter way more when they have a tank to shred as well as a frontline on their team. I feel like there are too many unearned advantages from being ahead. You get so much more than just the gold from some early kills.
: > [{quoted}](name=zecastar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vGqrRT1f,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-06-03T23:14:21.397+0000) > > It would be nice to see Ekko in competitive matches again. I don't think I've seen one in over a year now. It seems that people at the very top don't value him much. I know of no Challenger Ekko mains but then again, I didn't research it very deeply. Shiphtur plays him sometimes for fun but only with a 50% win rate and he's definitely not a one trick. On the other hand, I know there are many Sol mains in Challenger, some Talon mains, Kat mains etc. Here is one for you [(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3Z7bGYBEgI)]
> [{quoted}](name=RekSai CoffeeCo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vGqrRT1f,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2018-06-04T11:23:25.041+0000) > > Here is one for you > > [(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3Z7bGYBEgI)] Thanks. I'm aware of Arcsecond but I don't really consider him an Ekko main. He explained on stream once that he liked playing tank Ekko jungle when it was stronger and wanted to find something similar for this season. Eventually he came to the conclusion that full tank wasn't viable and he still needs early damage from Runic Echoes. He found a way to make it work. He's a very skilled jungler and a great Ekko player but he could just as easily play dozens of other champions. Last year he briefly reached rank 1 playing Diana, Nidalee and Rek'Sai (along with several others but almost no Ekko games). He has played a lot of Ekko this season but more for fun than because he considers it his absolute best chance to win. Anyway, maybe I'm thinking about it a bit differently. When I say a "main", I'm thinking more of a one-trick.
CppL (EUW)
: of course play it out.if you dodge its insta lose.
> [{quoted}](name=CppL,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEAQP0cX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-04T07:26:29.109+0000) > > of course play it out.if you dodge its insta lose. MMR matters, not your promos.
4eva (EUW)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Risk of Rain,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vGqrRT1f,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2018-06-04T06:26:41.030+0000) > > i think ekko is in a perfect spot right now (he's basically always been viable without crossing the border to being OP aside from tank ekko). > > his R is definitely his weakest skill though, it's very hard to use it as a nuke diamond and up. it's basically a disengage tool and heal 99% of the time which was surely not the intention behind the ability. Why bother picking Ekko instead of a true carry like Camille or Irelia? They have comparable mobility and scale far better while being MUCH tankier. They also have good DPS and sustain. What's the point of a relatively squishy melee champion like Ekko if he can't carry and he also can't go tanky without severely gimping his damage? He has a potentially better stun than them that usually won't hit but as awesome as that feels when you pull it off, a kit with more DPS, tankiness, sustain is still worth more. I'm not even trolling. I legitimately believe Irelia and Camille are just all around superior versions of Ekko at every stage of the game and they are underrated mid lane. Of course, if you choose to pick them, you should have some AP support like Zyra or a top laner such as Singed. That's really the only issue I've found.
: Ekko Has Among the Worst Late Game Assassin Win Rates - IDEAS
It would be nice to see Ekko in competitive matches again. I don't think I've seen one in over a year now. It seems that people at the very top don't value him much. I know of no Challenger Ekko mains but then again, I didn't research it very deeply. Shiphtur plays him sometimes for fun but only with a 50% win rate and he's definitely not a one trick. On the other hand, I know there are many Sol mains in Challenger, some Talon mains, Kat mains etc.
: We'd be waiting until the change to Runic goes live with 8.11 and evaluate after that. If she's still weak, she'll swing through a patch cycle at some point I'm sure. We're paying a lot of attention to magic damage dealers in the jungle atm.
> [{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EQ6VnjTH,comment-id=00390000,timestamp=2018-05-30T17:05:41.546+0000) > > We'd be waiting until the change to Runic goes live with 8.11 and evaluate after that. If she's still weak, she'll swing through a patch cycle at some point I'm sure. We're paying a lot of attention to magic damage dealers in the jungle atm. Is Ekko still getting some jg help for AS? I see some others are but I can't even go Machete first on him anymore successfully because it's harder to proc. passive effectively. In general, Ekko jg suffered A LOT from the changes. His winrae is sub 47% in plat+ and diamond+. It used to be 49% in plat+... which is still pretty bad considering it's a sub 1% play rate and mostly mains but he just can't fight for scuttlers well and doesn't clear fast or scale like graves. one of my biggest struggles with him is that ap itemization is just too punishing in jg. I just get 1 shot by kha/rengar/shaco etc. so I have to build tankier on Ekko but then my damage really falls off and I tend to lack cdr. also, if I don't build tankier, I become far too gold dependent for a jg champ + 1 slight mistake or them simply not staying in my w/q/r etc. and I essentially wasted all that gold on damage since I can't frontline at all either. I tried ibg but I don't need 800 mana from my first 2 items and then I'm very vulnerable vs magic or I do far too little damage if I go mercs. it's a real itemization struggle. I'd much have preferred 500 mana but 7% ms to gank and position well. I liked deadman's plate after runic but it falls off mid game and again cdr is a problem. if there were an item with defense vs magic and 20% cdr, my builds would be fixed but I know sv once had 20% and that was reduced. long story short, I can't find a good build for Ekko in he jg. I think he needs MR & Armor as well as penetration and an early game spike. right now, the easiest way to get cdr is to buy items like ibg or fh but those items are really shitty without a lot of HP and it's not like I can go warmog's first item either. I think ad champs have it so much better for itemization. team wide utility with black cleaver + a nice HP stick so you can then get resist items like maw or thorn without feeling bad about it. meanwhile as an AP jg, what do I do? roa? trash because of too much mana and no cdr. ibg? too much mana and no ms or defense vs magic? deadman's? minimal damage and again no cdr. protobelt? lacks team utility like black cleaver has with the shred, only 10% cdr, not that slot efficient and I don't want an active item that doesn't scale. the % pen on black cleaver is great no matter if behind or ahead or if you are doing badly but your adc is at least doing well. jg needs to be somewhat bruiserish to be viable in team comps beyond just hoping to snowball or to have a ton of gold and APs have shit itemization for it. I've even considered rylai's + liandry's but no resists are an issue and no cdr is even more problematic. Corki and 8.11. Do you think this will be worse for him overall? I gave up on him since the base AD nerf but true damage crits. might be useful since he doesn't really want to build void staff anyway.
: JG FEEDBACK - XP ISSUES
we also have "fun" new rng "mechanics" with scuttler! :) hoping one day Riot will stop breaking their own game during the season
: Was Not Sure About Scuttler Changes... Unbiased Verdict: Awful
Jungle feels random and robotic now. You don't get to paint a picture of what you want to accomplish in the game. You just get yanked left and right by bullshit.
: PBE Chat with the Playtest Team - 8.11
Have you guys considered giving Ekko a little bit more AS? Not only did many Ekkos (such as Arcsecond) always go Machete and then back to get Talisman after a few camps, but the AS on Machete was super helpful to use his passive on the Raptors and Krugs. He was under-performing a bit last patch and I think he's in the same spot right now. You guys buffed his passive vs monsters at the start of the season so I really hope jungle becomes a well-supported role for him and not an afterthought. His kit makes sense for both roles. I'd really like to know Riot's plans on this because it would really suck to invest in his secondary role and find it abandoned down the line. Moreover, the mana regen changes are good for him and exactly because mana isn't a big issue (if you take the first 2 blues), it would be preferable to have MS on Runic Echoes. The changes this patch are supposed to be favorable for AP junglers but in Ekko's case I think they're a bit mixed and even more so considering that JG got nerfed overall. BTW: Another benefit of a little more AS is that it would make some of his off-builds a tiny bit better. Nashor's is not considered a good Ekko item atm but more AS would help with its passive and Gunblade would also be a tiny bit better since you might get an extra auto in to benefit from the 40 AD on it. GB is a decent Ekko item for the slot but most Ekkos have stopped buying it because of the sort of wasted gold spent on AD. One of my favorite things about Ekko is how flexible he is both as a champion and in itemization.
SirPurrr (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=BlxHAay0,comment-id=00060003,timestamp=2018-05-16T17:47:17.512+0000) > > Thoughts on jungle changes, AP junglers included, either in Friday's post and/or first one of next week. Since those changes went out just hours ago we haven't had a chance yet to assess where they're landed, how that compares to what we were targeting, unintended consequences etc. The mana regen buff is so nice that the 300 mana on Runic Echoes feels really unnecessary and I'd MUCH prefer the MS. It's not even close... especially on champions like Fiddlesticks, Ekko (hurt by AS changes too - needs help in general for jg), and Elise.
> [{quoted}](name=SirPurrr,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=BlxHAay0,comment-id=000600030000,timestamp=2018-05-16T18:23:07.475+0000) > > The mana regen buff is so nice that the 300 mana on Runic Echoes feels really unnecessary and I'd MUCH prefer the MS. It's not even close... especially on champions like Fiddlesticks, Ekko (hurt by AS changes too - needs help in general for jg), and Elise. Even though it feels bad not being able to quickly use the passive, his clear isn't really worse. it's likely just that other junglers have a significantly improved clear by comparrison.
: They don't make the champions worse per say. They just make it so you have to change your play style to use them better. The only thing unviable is the people that can't adjust.
> [{quoted}](name=Shadowphoenix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o0w4Edky,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-05-16T20:54:44.649+0000) > > They don't make the champions worse per say. They just make it so you have to change your play style to use them better. The only thing unviable is the people that can't adjust. you don't get it full AP wasn't viable but hybrid was now you have zero viable AP builds
: Honestly, I like this. **But only in high elo.** . And I don't mean with streamers that always stall the game / never surrender so they can get more content in for their viewers, therefore making everyone feel miserable that they don't wanna surrender. Playing on my main with P1-D4 people, there's really nothing you can do anymore if your team is 0-7 at 8 minutes. It saves a lot of time. Sure, there's always a slim chance, but why get stressed in trying to win an unwinnable game? Just let it go and move on. 15 minutes is better than 30+ minutes. 2 people go afk, the rest of us 3 simply just farm away / watch something while the enemy team does their thing. We just saved about 20+ minutes. Oh, but you're the "never give up" type. Well, I got some bad news.
> [{quoted}](name=Turtles Are Okay,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=GzmKwW3n,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-16T17:41:21.277+0000) > > Honestly, I like this. **But only in high elo.** . And I don't mean with streamers that always stall the game / never surrender so they can get more content in for their viewers, therefore making everyone feel miserable that they don't wanna surrender. > > Playing on my main with P1-D4 people, there's really nothing you can do anymore if your team is 0-7 at 8 minutes. It saves a lot of time. > > Sure, there's always a slim chance, but why get stressed in trying to win an unwinnable game? Just let it go and move on. > > 15 minutes is better than 30+ minutes. > > 2 people go afk, the rest of us 3 simply just farm away / watch something while the enemy team does their thing. We just saved about 20+ minutes. > > Oh, but you're the "never give up" type. > > Well, I got some bad news. 0 7 isn't unwinnable even in high ELO... especially if you've got some other advantages like farm, a turret, drag etc. if it's 0 10 and there are no counterbalancing advantages, then sure, it's probably a lost cause
: I AFK **a lot** more these days, because when people int/get toxic/troll there is only so much I am willing to put up with. It's just a game, and once the game becomes more stressful than fun there ceases to be reason to play. Leaverbuster's punishments are worth it to deal with rather than sitting through a 30-40 minute game where everyones flaming/trolling and refusing to ff. If there are people on my team who are genuinely trying, I make sure to apologize to them wholeheartedly before I leave.
> [{quoted}](name=EvilxUndertonez,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=GzmKwW3n,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-16T19:32:28.178+0000) > > I AFK **a lot** more these days, because when people int/get toxic/troll there is only so much I am willing to put up with. It's just a game, and once the game becomes more stressful than fun there ceases to be reason to play. Leaverbuster's punishments are worth it to deal with rather than sitting through a 30-40 minute game where everyones flaming/trolling and refusing to ff. If there are people on my team who are genuinely trying, I make sure to apologize to them wholeheartedly before I leave. learn to mute
: It wasn't the damage of Zac's W that made him viable.....
> [{quoted}](name=TrikzterzArma,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o0w4Edky,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-05-16T19:37:25.634+0000) > > It wasn't the damage of Zac's W that made him viable..... full AP wasn't really viable anyway and now hybrid builds with 1-2 AP items are just worse
: 15-40 (LoL runes interface) or 15-60 (Patch Notes) ?
Cheap Shot Riot's really lazy on patch notes and tooltips. They nerfed Abyssal and didn't even mention it. And in the client they still have the warning from preseason when buying rune pages. It's actually ridiculous.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Why not just 1% CDR per level till level 10? at least it isn't a dead rune for the first 15-18 mins
> [{quoted}](name=Buttsubushi,realm=OCE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=B3kWBlWr,comment-id=006800000000,timestamp=2018-05-12T07:55:19.025+0000) > > Why not just 1% CDR per level till level 10? at least it isn't a dead rune for the first 15-18 mins That wouldn't be too bad but I think they believe it's necessary for it to be useless early. I like your idea though.
: the tribunal and report system is flawed af and only looks at chat logs. it's a broken system and needs to be completely reworked or deleted.
> [{quoted}](name=Centralize,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8AK5eHti,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-05-15T09:15:50.772+0000) > > the tribunal and report system is flawed af and only looks at chat logs. it's a broken system and needs to be completely reworked or deleted. There is no Tribunal anymore. That system actually had context so you could understand what people meant when they said something (not jokes taken out of context by oversensitive players). It allowed impartial peers to decide the outcome, not a bot.
: I hate the report button so fucking much.
It's the infamous "troll immunity": https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/0JIhtyBM-the-trolls-have-won-and-are-immune-to-criticism-punish-the-victims-instead
wobaji (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=B3kWBlWr,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-11T15:52:53.734+0000) > > > Celerity > > * Celerity's currently a strong all purpose choice in its row that drowns out other options too much. As always on movement speed it also contributes to creeping up average speeds. We were going to make some changes to it in 8.10 with the other minor runes balancing, but concluded something a bit larger was needed than just numbers tweaking. Going to be looking at modifications like MS only in combat, or after every ability cast, rather than on all the time as a result. > http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png Ugh, Celerity is my favorite rune by far and the only reason it's taken so much is that the others are weak/situational. Level 10 especially for a JG takes ~15 minutes. Absolute Focus is really conditional and favors poke champions but poke champions are more vulnerable to ganks, more dependent on good positioning and value CDR highly, thus even those champions frequently favor the other runes above it. The exceptions are mostly when hitting break points for waveclear. I really don't want Celerity ruined. It's by far my favorite rune in the tree and now you've already taken MS off Runic Echoes. It makes it even harder to be useful jungling. We can't even level 3 gank. It's like lanes are becoming hermetically sealed from JG interaction and we're reduced to PvE. I like planning out efficient pathing and good strategy but I also want to be capable of early pressure if required (such as vs Nasus or Yasuo). Just make Transcendence come online at level 9 and give Absolute Focus 1 more AP early, up to 5 more late. Then, you wouldn't see Celerity quite so much except on junglers and supports. It is NOT OP and it's a rune that you really get used to too so it's very disruptive to change! It's just generally useful while the others are far too conditional. Of course the "generally useful" option becomes meta and outpeforms (outside of the niche scenarios). That's more or less normal and if it's too extreme, it's because the others are too delayed in their power. You've created a snowball meta where towers are paper vs Baron/Rift and even AP champions take them with ease. There is no "waiting for level 10" to have a useful rune or for Absolute Focus to be truly impactful.
> [{quoted}](name=wobaji,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=B3kWBlWr,comment-id=0068,timestamp=2018-05-11T19:32:12.072+0000) > > Ugh, Celerity is my favorite rune by far and the only reason it's taken so much is that the others are weak/situational. Level 10 especially for a JG takes ~15 minutes. Absolute Focus is really conditional and favors poke champions but poke champions are more vulnerable to ganks, more dependent on good positioning and value CDR highly, thus even those champions frequently favor the other runes above it. The exceptions are mostly when hitting break points for waveclear. > > I really don't want Celerity ruined. It's by far my favorite rune in the tree and now you've already taken MS off Runic Echoes. It makes it even harder to be useful jungling. We can't even level 3 gank. It's like lanes are becoming hermetically sealed from JG interaction and we're reduced to PvE. I like planning out efficient pathing and good strategy but I also want to be capable of early pressure if required (such as vs Nasus or Yasuo). > > Just make Transcendence come online at level 9 and give Absolute Focus 1 more AP early, up to 5 more late. Then, you wouldn't see Celerity quite so much except on junglers and supports. It is NOT OP and it's a rune that you really get used to too so it's very disruptive to change! It's just generally useful while the others are far too conditional. Of course the "generally useful" option becomes meta and outpeforms (outside of the niche scenarios). That's more or less normal and if it's too extreme, it's because the others are too delayed in their power. You've created a snowball meta where towers are paper vs Baron/Rift and even AP champions take them with ease. There is no "waiting for level 10" to have a useful rune or for Absolute Focus to be truly impactful. Why does Transcendence have a level requirement instead of just making it 10 minutes or something? Level restrictions make it a lot worse on bot laners and junglers. Celerity is ready to go level 1.
TS Media (NA)
: What? His attitude in his response is what lead to his punishment? He didn't insult you nor was he even aggressive. What kind of censored culture did we come to grow up in? His logs aren't even remotely bad. It's like the more people rage reports, the worse this game system becomes. Soon, typing in chat will be considered offensive. People are just suppose to sit back and /mute all at the start of every game now. Having high tension in a highly competitive game like league, and having to hold in frustration is what riot wants you to do. I try my best to be on good behavior, but I end up losing it often and my logs are way worse than OP. I can see why I get MY chat bans, but this guy getting banned for simple frustrations like this? That's absolutely ridiculous. League is by far and away the WORST game when it comes to punishments pertaining to what's being said. When I mute all, and I don't communicate properly with my team, I better not see a perma ban popping up on my account for it, cause obviously I just offend everyone around me.
> [{quoted}](name=TS Media,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0JIhtyBM,comment-id=0000000000000002,timestamp=2018-05-03T07:35:43.661+0000) > > What? His attitude in his response is what lead to his punishment? He didn't insult you nor was he even aggressive. What kind of censored culture did we come to grow up in? > > His logs aren't even remotely bad. It's like the more people rage reports, the worse this game system becomes. Soon, typing in chat will be considered offensive. People are just suppose to sit back and /mute all at the start of every game now. Having high tension in a highly competitive game like league, and having to hold in frustration is what riot wants you to do. > > I try my best to be on good behavior, but I end up losing it often and my logs are way worse than OP. I can see why I get MY chat bans, but this guy getting banned for simple frustrations like this? That's absolutely ridiculous. League is by far and away the WORST game when it comes to punishments pertaining to what's being said. > > When I mute all, and I don't communicate properly with my team, I better not see a perma ban popping up on my account for it, cause obviously I just offend everyone around me. It wasn't a ban. I agree that it's ridiculous how little you can vent or say anything to anyone. All you're ever supposed to say is "gj" no matter if a guy is running it down mid like it's his job or your mid Kassadin is rushing Thornmail first item. It's pretty dumb that they've morphed chat into this. Might as well just have some numbers to press for phrases like "gj" "wp" instead of pretending you actually have a functioning chat. Any concept of self-expression outside of ego stroking is basically null and void. The whole "context doesn't matter" thing is as silly as the rest of the system. Of course it matters and not only in terms of having accurate logs. If you call a troll out for what he is, it's obviously not the same as if you say the same thing to a player doing his part. One is deserved and one is not. Yes, you shouldn't verbally assault someone in any context but to elevate criticism to make it seem like that qualifies as verbal assault is laughable. We're basically making up labels and applying them seemingly at random to justify any punishment. Verbal abuse used to mean getting called an idiot and told to uninstall while every five minutes someone would lament about how terrible said player is. It was nasty and personal. I understand that should be punished but calling someone a troll after a bad play, really?
: Is Ekko tank still a thing?
You can go hybrid (at least one damage item) but full tank is pretty bad.
: Manaflow band is by far the worst choice of mastery now.
I don't honestly think it's that bad. Seems fine to me but perhaps it's only really for poke champions now.
Venomar (NA)
: It's not that hard to hop In a custom match with some bots and set your style and UI to what works for you. Here I am changing keybind settings and sensitivities based on what champ I play, every match, and you're worried about the minimap. As far as it's size. 1. 300% would get in the way of what's going on on screen, I can't see how a lot of people who would actually want that. 2. Something about information is power and proper use of your minimap is a skill and sets players apart. If it was bigger it would be easier. Another element of skill stripped from the game. 3. Unified competitive advantage/disadvantage. Same reason everyone can only zoom out the same distance. You don't have to agree with 2 and 3 all you want but it is what it is and those are two big reasons why it is how it is.
> [{quoted}](name=Venomar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7ELGM21Q,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-10T22:35:01.910+0000) > > It's not that hard to hop In a custom match with some bots and set your style and UI to what works for you. Here I am changing keybind settings and sensitivities based on what champ I play, every match, and you're worried about the minimap. > > As far as it's size. > > 1. 300% would get in the way of what's going on on screen, I can't see how a lot of people who would actually want that. > > 2. Something about information is power and proper use of your minimap is a skill and sets players apart. If it was bigger it would be easier. Another element of skill stripped from the game. > > 3. Unified competitive advantage/disadvantage. Same reason everyone can only zoom out the same distance. > > You don't have to agree with 2 and 3 all you want but it is what it is and those are two big reasons why it is how it is. A few years ago, a Rioter even said this was allowed.
: Ekko JG Needs A Little Help
A big issue for me is just how much damage he takes from camps because his base armor is so low for a melee jungler. He has only 32 and it scales to a paltry 83. Compare him even to another squishy jungler like Evelynn. She starts with 37 and it scales to 96.5 (and she even kites camps to avoid damage). 5 armor is not that minor early. His W helps a little but not enough and it's still pretty mana intensive to use constantly (leaves you more vulnerable to invaders too). Also, while he eventually takes less damage from camps as his build progresses, it's still not negligible even 15 minutes into the game. I think if Riot changes Machete and Talisman to work only based on missing mana and hp, it will be a terrible change for JG. The only champions that can function at let's say 70% and still gank well are tanks. Ekko cannot really do that because he's pretty squishy early (even if you try to go hybrid off tank for your team). That kind of change would just make any champion with spammable shields like Udyr or sustain OP. Everyone else would suffer vs those camps horribly so the change that would happen isn't going to be "let's be more aware of when we gank and more careful", it'll be, let's pick only champions who don't get bothered by this - such as Nunu. Having healing from the JG item even at higher HP values is an equalizer ~15 minutes in the game.
Meddler (NA)
: We'll be taking another look at manaflow band, what's currently in testing on the PBE is very unlikely to ship.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA, For adaptive damage types, it's less about whether you receive AD or AP and more about how the runes work by default. For example, for Corki, he receives AD as intended but if I have Electrocute, it does physical damage since my AD>AP. I don't think this makes any sense. Corki in general was gutted pretty hard with the PBE changes[ many people advocated against.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/B5tB9GQH-yet-another-unjustified-corki-nerf-proposal-indepth and [here](https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/client-new-features-feedback/ZAm3nfAc-corki-nerfs-blow-my-mind-if-they-go-through-given-the-ample-feedback)) You guys did it anyway and now he's sitting at 48% in Diamond+ with just barely above a 50% winrate past 40 minutes. For an ADC - a champion literally picked for late game damage scaling, that's pretty unimpressive. If you have trouble balancing him, just add some utility. Right now, he's just way too useless if behind.
: When are {{champion:36}} and {{champion:75}} going to get reworked?
> [{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=TvU51dlV,comment-id=0047,timestamp=2017-12-16T01:57:50.247+0000) > > When are {{champion:36}} and {{champion:75}} going to get reworked? they don't need it
Barkley (NA)
: I spent years jungling....
nice gj always good to try other roles and find what you're good at/enjoy
: Why is the AP from Corki's Q being hit as well?
no clue guess they just randomly decided to gut him even though none of his stats are that crazy and he wasn't even picked or banned once in All Stars some threads on him: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/B5tB9GQH-yet-another-unjustified-corki-nerf-proposal-indepth https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/client-new-features-feedback/ZAm3nfAc-corki-nerfs-blow-my-mind-if-they-go-through-given-the-ample-feedback
Rioter Comments
: Who ever made Overcharge.
I thought it was fun for a while.
sAyCo (EUNE)
: ~~ A Better Report System is Needed ~~
just because someone reports you, doesn't automatically mean you did anything wrong people's feelings and reality are often at odds
NotSid (NA)
: Imagine the outrage if a gay character was retconned straight
so true lol or what if Lucian/Karma/Ekko became White? what is the point of this thread though? We already know outrage in society isn't equal for equal things.
OTP Riven (EUNE)
: MUNDO Q
It used to have a target hitbox but they nerfed it. get good. only thing I'd want on Mundo is a tiny AP ratio on Q so I can become Magic Mundo.
zecastar (NA)
: Would Tahm Kench Swallow
not what I meant :(
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zecastar

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