: > [{quoted}](name=zenrathk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=583TpPYy,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-17T23:24:34.802+0000) > > And i already admit that i was wrong on that, but as for "Doesn't really matter if they are, still they aren't tanks" > That is exactly the argument, they are a type of tank. i don't understand your confusion sir. I don't really understand your confusion, they aren't tanks, never were, so I went to wikipedia to prove you wrong, here, read this: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Champion_classes They aren't a subclass of tanks, they are a subclass of fighters. Also there you can look up that Darius and Garen are classified as Juggernauts.
This will be my last comment on this due to i just do not have time to get on here constantly. Juggernauts are a fighter subclass that survive on resistance and damage, correct, but that makes them in tern tanky, which makes them able to build pure tank, which is why over 60% of the league community who are not one track minded, consider them to be tanks, becaues you see a garen, or you see a darius, allot, who just do not take damage. I accept that you will never agree they are a tank, and i hope you can at least accept that i do consider them to be a fighter subclass, of fighter and tank. making what a juggernaut is today. and maby im juststuck in my old ways of leauge, because when i use to play garen in S1 and S2 he was always recommended tank items, and maby one or 2 damage. now its black cleaver, straight into IE due to his spin. so i will always see him as a tank, because i know what he use to build. Thats all i relay need to say i guess, and even tho we disagreed and argued, thank you for your comments. Because i am sure some how this helps someone find out something they did not know, including me. I honistly thought jugernauts werejust tank subclass due to how they play in game. and how they were refer to in older seasons like S1-3, but i guess they are just true fighters now. i mean Garen can do so much damage compared to just the start of last season alone. So i accept hes not a super tank nay more, and is a true fighter now. have a good holiday. {{sticker:garen-swing}}
SanKakU (NA)
: My 0/4/7 lulu in a 27 minute game got 110 bonus max health due to Overgrowth. My Bard was 1/0/17. Nothing seems to indicate anything but that either you're dying too much or you're out of range to get the health bonus. My point is to not whine about runes using math that doesn't add up except when you're not appropriately playing with them. Supposing you're using Grasp and as a melee, that's taking you out of range for your Overgrowth stacking, then maybe you ought to take another keystone instead.
You may just be beter at staying in combat than i am. tho it also may be that i die allot keeping my ADC alive as braum, or just getting 4 man gank in bot lanes in general lately. Also after reading this i did try just playing braum in a practice against AI, and i was able to get 107 health before i stop. only difference is i was not being killed allot just to keep my ADC alive. and that is part of my point, even tho i am building tank, i am being torn apart. so runes like overgrowth are not useless because there bad, but because with how fast you die now, it only relay benefits long range champs, and not actual melee tanks who have to stay in the fight to keep there ADC alive. which is a bit sad to me. I would re-edit my post asisaid to another cominter, but i do not have much time, and when i do have time im working on personal jobs or web sights. i only made this post because my main game for taking a brake from work and relaxing, is not relaxing any more. even in normal's every one acts like its ranked now, and no one has a chill. So casual players like me cant enjoy it naymore unles we become un-casual, becaues the new runes arnt all bad, just a few hand full like hextech teliporter thingy, the two tank stats that are not just constant tank, and that dumb 100 health rune. i relay do not get that one. But they do support more competitive or active players. So even the casual cant just play casual, so its a bit off-putting. Now im sorry if this dose not make since, or if i described any thing wrong or in a confusing way, again im relay bad at writing in general, i have a editor who rewrites all of my files at work. i am just the idea guy who talks beater than he types. Thank you again for your comets, and correcting me. And have a good day friend. {{sticker:galio-happy}}
Khelb (NA)
: Well said, personally, I think this is ALL Riot's fault. It's their job to balance. The absurd burst damage we see in league now was a slow but sure path towards where we are now. They knew exactly what they were doing and i don't give them any sympathy with regards to community; Sorry, but all business have to deal with customer relations, Riot is not some magical place that gets to ignore it. I see a lot of red posts talking about how it's not worth communicating for this and that reason. As a business, hire a team that is responsible for such things, then. I see so many excuses from people getting paid that it almost makes me sick. I've never worked a job where i was allowed use an excuse as a permanent reason to not do said job. I'm not blaming any individual, but I'm certainly blaming Riot as a company. But, at the end of the day, it's their decision and maybe it makes sense for them fiscally to have made it. For me, I'm no longer able to enjoy playing. The fun of the game for me was interaction and decision making, the burst and ridiculous movement abilities removes 90% of that for me in Gold. It took me about half way through season 7 to get to the point where i no longer wanted to play. Maybe they are just ridding the fun for players at my level that enjoy the things i enjoy. Whatever the case it sucks for me - this used to be my favorite game.
I agree friend, last season was already a pain with all the new burst weapons, and lethality intraduced, allowing for ealry game burst (whyyyy) and with the new heavy damage focused runes that can just be stacked on top of etch other, is not fun. i find my self playing battle rite, or HOTS now, which hurts becaues i loved leauge and Runeterra. The story and charicter concepts are what will keep me intrested in league forever, but not playing it. i alos got stardewvallly recently, and i have gone form 100% salt, to 90% rleaxed. wow that game. {{sticker:sg-lux}}
Durzaka (NA)
: You need better formatting dude, this is painfully difficult to read. Try putting all of the Rune descriptions is quotes, and go from there. Youve got some hilarious misinformation that makes it difficult for me to even continue reading. Zac use Grasp? In what fucking world? He doesn't lane and won't get to take advantage of it very often. Zac is a very firm Aftershock user. Tyrn use Grasp? Get real, hes going PtA, no question. Also, Demolish is actually terrible and used on very few champions (almost no competent Rek'sai or Heimer in plat+ is using Demolish, fyi). No one is going to disagree there is too much damage here. But your reasoning and comments on different runes are ridiculous. (except Iron Skin and Mirror Shell. As someone who loves to play tanks, fuck those useless PoS).
Again as i said in the start of this thread, i am bad at formatting, spelling, and gramer, this is my first major post and not becaues i felt i was right but becaues i wanted to pull out my opinion on t he runes and what i have seen since they came out, i just wanted to see morepeopel tlkaing about these runes, becaues i dont think enoughpeople are tlaking about the runes form what i have seen, and insted are just "im ok with this". Ontop of other issues, like the pole i made underneath. and i welcome any one to fix my post if they want, its not perfict in any way. When i list those champions not saying they should only every use these runes, but that they are champions who can take advantage of what the runes can do, unless i call them out and explain what they can do with it. its more so zac can use grasp like any other champ that uses health in there kit. and as a jungle no hes not in lane, but he can gank a lane, and help push up to the tower to get that extra damage, me and a few people tested this, its no t he best on him, but it creates some fast mid and top lane pushing. And himer hsould not use it, but i have seen himers use it on the second rune page, as well as the tank stat one, and use it to just push out towers on mele champions. its not 100% effective at all, but i noticed atleast 3 other people try it out besides my testing time with it in mid. it works on Zed's some how. probably because the zed did not know how to punish a risky himer. And yes i understand my opinions may be wrong, and the thing is state on it are not 100% correct, i state that in the thread as well. but i am glad you agree about the tank stat, and to much damage, its the main point i wanted to get across, and again, i just want people to talk about it, so if someone with better understanding of the game as a whole wants to take this and spring board off it, or just the discussion idea its self, i welcome it fully. Thank you again for your comment and correcting any mistakes i have made. also demolish on Sion is funny.
: > [{quoted}](name=DatLegend27,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=583TpPYy,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-12-17T15:34:29.826+0000) > > thats alot of text holy{{sticker:sg-zephyr}} no this is alot of text https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/so3Em891-a-look-at-the-how-the-timeline-of-runeterra-and-the-league-universe-might-work-no-promises-though
Rude Name (OCE)
: Anyone who’s willing to troll does not put that kind of effort into a post. Regardless of my stance, I believe that passion deserves upvotes, and everyone who is serious has something valid to say.
: Just look at the missing Masteries to see more of the issue. Even ignoring the missing armor quints and reds as options, missing are Fearless against burst damage, Siegemaster to protect from dives, tower pokes, and to defend towers with, Legendary Guardian to raise resistances in team fights, tough skin to make trades from taking cs not as painful, and bandit to provide some extra gold in hard or bullied matchups.
Well klepto is i guess there replacement for bandit, but its a keystone.
SanKakU (NA)
: It doesn't have anything to do with combat, just being near minions when they die. Undying Grasp cares about combat though, but then the health bonus on that rune doesn't show in the match history.
Well yes but my point is im in combat in lane the whole time, so i don't know how i am not getting enough health. tho i did notice when i was playing bard i did have an easier time gaining health on overgrowth, maby because he goes past lanes? im not sure, i wish i could see an in debth chart about it.
: > [{quoted}](name=PoisonedHeart63,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=583TpPYy,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-17T22:51:19.127+0000) > > Aren't bruisers a subclass of tanks?{{sticker:sg-lux-2}} Doesn't really matter if they are, still they aren't tanks, which what I am arguing about with that guy, as soon as he said Garen should use aftershock he made a fool out of himself.
And i already admit that i was wrong on that, but as for "Doesn't really matter if they are, still they aren't tanks" That is exactly the argument, they are a type of tank. i don't understand your confusion sir.
: Personally I don't really mind it too much, but the orange essence change kind of sucks.
AR URF (NA)
: press the attack is not that bad on vayne because it doesn't work for true damage.
It still gives her that extra ouch on tanks and especially squishy's.
SanKakU (NA)
: > 9. Overgrowth: PASSIVE: Every 8 monsters or enemy minions that die near you permanently increase your maximum health by 0.2%. I like it on healthy characters, but it is pointless on any other account. This is another instance of purely health tank based rune. and its not even that good of one. you get like 24 to 49 max extra health I got ninety-six bonus health with this rune alone on a Bard in a 24 minute game. A roaming support. Your post has many inaccurate statements.
That's a good amount. i usually play Braum or Sion, and even tho i am in combat all game i can only get a max of 59 to 67
: > [{quoted}](name=zenrathk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=583TpPYy,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-17T22:10:52.723+0000) > > Juggernauts were originally tanks my friend. They are usually health tanks,that ave strong ULTs or ability's that are easy to increase. > Having Hard CC dose not make you a tank. nor is it required to make you a tank. > > As for aftershock yes you are correct. i misread aftershock and i will edit the post acordingly. But they are still tanks. Health tanks. Health tank juggernauts. No they aren't, before this they were pure bruisers, the definition for tanks didn't change, bruisers literally build resistance and damage, which you have to build on Garen and Darius, while not on tanks.
: > [{quoted}](name=zenrathk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=583TpPYy,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-12-17T20:43:11.400+0000) > > Yes i know, i kinda just went off last night. I'm intimidated but understand your frustration 100%. It's the quality we expect from such a small and upcoming company as Riot. When a company starts out, you have to be willing to work with them in their early days so that one day they can become what they aspire to be. EA.
I do understand riot can only do so much as well, so its not like i hate them. And to be honest some if not most of there things they do during patch notes is to try and abide by the millions of people giving them mixed messages about what fixes to make, including the trolls or liars how just want the game to stay broken for laughs. I just wish i could talk to someone at riot about this. again, i love riot, i love Runeterra, and i love playing league with friends. but its becoming unbearable to play. Im tired of the burst, there is to much burst. Thank you for your post, and for the reply. And good luck on nay matches you have in league friend. {{sticker:sg-kiko}}
: Ivern sucks because he already sucked before, and then shield champions lost windspeakers (like they deserved to) but now Ivern isn't so good. Grasp is very broken. Outtrades most bruisers in lane. Tanks shouldn't auto trade bruisers ever.
Ivern dose not suck, hes a utility champ with a utility kit. only difference is his utility was based around surviving. now that they removed things such as wind speakers. its impossible use his shield until late game, where everyone can already eat through your shield. I find the same issue with Jana now, but at least her ult can still keep people alive. I love ivern and i don't want him to change, but they need to do something to fix his kit now that he dose not have enough to save him self, or anyone on his team for that mater. and after daisy got Nerf shes practically useless. I mean heck even if its something like, when he first summons daisy, his first skill used is cast by daisy instead. like his Q is an instant nock up form daisy, since every one outruns her, or kills her in 3 attacks now. Maybe W makes daisy throw some pebbles in a bush sized AOE that slows, not allot but just enough so daisy can catch up and do anything. and heck instead of making a shield with E what if ivern can turn daisy into a shield on anally for a bit, and instead she takes damage for them for 2.5 seconds, or until she dies. just something man. Grasp helps with trades sure but not to that extent, i still see plenty of bruisers who know what there doing, out trade tanks using grasp.
: > [{quoted}](name=zenrathk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=583TpPYy,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-12-17T20:42:44.756+0000) > > Im not saying he should us aftershock, but that he can, and that he is a tank. he and Darius both. Darius is at least more of a bruiser, so its not confusing to see him go full damage instead of health items. But before Garen could crit on his E he was mostly a health tank bruiser. and if you keep reading i do state that most players wont use this rune on Darius, and instead would go for domination instead. i see domination on him the most. That dosent change the fact he dose have health tank stats and that he was once, apon a time, he was to be a 1 on 1 counter to garen. as they were both just health tanks with good ults way back when. Thank you for posting your comment, and for at least trying to read this post tho, i know its allot. How in the world do you think Garen can use aftershock? The only way he can proc it is by using a blast cone, even Riot said that eventually they will auto swap it to grasp, if someone takes aftershock accidentally or purposely. Now, both Garen and Darius aren't tanks at all, both are classified as Juggernauts which are a kind of fighter. Basically just look at their kit, it doesn't scream tank at all. Darius is the only one who has some kind of hard CC in his kit, but only a pull and no ms boosts, while Garen absolutely has no cc except a silence, and a ms boost. Tanks are supposed to have hard CC in their kit.
Juggernauts were originally tanks my friend. They are usually health tanks,that ave strong ULTs or ability's that are easy to increase. Having Hard CC dose not make you a tank. nor is it required to make you a tank. As for aftershock yes you are correct. i misread aftershock and i will edit the post acordingly. But they are still tanks. Health tanks. Health tank juggernauts.
zenrathk (NA)
: League of burst, health (Game play issues in new runes.) This is issue wont RESOLVE its self.
Go ahead and talk about the "IP vs Blue essance" as well. its part of this post after all and it should be talked about just as much.
: Runes aren't contributing to more DPS damage or burst, just poke damage. Let's not forget Resolve is really fucking broken right now with Grasp being triple buffed compared to season 7 and Aftershock still being broken. Sorcery is just broken, which is why Miss Fortune is the best ADC right now. Most people will probably upvote the thread without reading it because it says 'league of burst' and we all know the boards.
I will agree with the upvote, and sorcery broken part. but i hope people actually read this. and yes grasp has been buffed but its not that broken. i think aftershock is the best one in resolve, its just hard to keep the enemy inside of it without cc. kind of the same with sorcery magic comet. Also at early game sorcery is for poke. but late game it dose contribute to bursting someone down, and a good bit of it. also most of the runes do stack allot of damage, but not tank stats, theirs 1 rune out of every single rune, to give you actual tank stats. (or at least 1 that works) When the new runes came out riot increased everyones stats to make up for no more masteries and rune pages, and only having one. Not a bad idea, except the fact that the rune pages support damage, and has almost 0 support for tank stats. also they don't have much for utility champions. notice how ivern is almost impossible to play now? hes a utility champ. I still play ivern, and its not like he just flat out sucks, but he just cant do enough to mater late game anymore. and with all of the damage now, he is so squishy it is impossible to gank someone and be like "ha ha fear me im ivern!" when the ADC and support just hit you 3 times and your like "oh no im ivern!" with 20% health left. and i know this isint just me, i had a 2 hour disscusion with a random, and my friend about why we wish ivern was useful again. All i want from this post is for people to relies, including riot, that yes the rune pages are nice,and cool, and inventive for sure. But there is way more damage, than sustain. And the little utility they have dose not make up for the utility we lost form the last masterie page. having to take resolve second on ivern just so my shield actually can save me, is not fun. And again thank you for your comment.
: I'm a sadist, apparently. Nice to know.
And theirs nothing wrong with it, i know plenty of nice sadist. unless they play Temmo. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
: Ok, I just skimmed through this post and I have a quite of bit of things I disagree with... You say most people would rather take grasp on braum when the highest pick rate on braum is guardian, the truth is grasp is just pretty shit on most melee supports. http://na.op.gg/champion/braum/statistics/support You also say Taric would rather go sorcery primary, but again most people go Guardian on Taric. It's VERY situational for Taric to go sorcery first. http://na.op.gg/champion/taric/statistics/support Now when you talk about predator you talk about Maokai, Chogath, Nunu, and Ivern going predator, but again... most people AREN'T going predator. Just because you saw it like once or something doesn't mean most people take it... http://na.op.gg/champion/maokai/statistics/jungle http://na.op.gg/champion/nunu/statistics/jungle (too lazy to find the rest) Now there's a bunch of other stuff that's wrong with your post, and I'm really tempted to think this is a shit post so I won't really waste more time on this.
All of the people i asked on league told me grasp is what they would use for Braum. including friends Due to it giving that extra damage. But the people i know who actually play the support roll, agree to take guardian instead, for the ability to save there ADC or keep them alive for an engage/team fight. so perhaps its just the people who like to deal allot of damage that pick aftershock/grasp. i should have put that into there, but i am glad you brought that up. I did not think to use OP.GG, i asked peoples opinions. Next time i do something like this ill cheek OP.GG. I do however still stand by what i said about Taric. I am happy that more people are using guardian on him, but every game i saw a Taric they were using sorcery so that there stun would hurt and give some poke, as well as having Arey as a back up shield for there ADC on heal. It was just my own personal experiences there so again i should have cheeked OP.GG and forgot it existed during my write up of this. Now i didi not mean to make it seam like "every one uses predator on.." that's not what i meant and i am sorry for the confusion. i meant its strange that i saw people using it on them, and that it was more of a rare occasion. These people were just doing predator to have that extra speed, Chogath to R people, Nunu to run up and steel dragon or baron. and Maokai, i think he was just doing it because he was going full CDR and out ruining you for the lock down. I still say the strangest one was that Ivenr i saw. I should have been more clear on that part of the post. and this is not a shit post i promise you. this is a combination of my personal thoughts, and those i have asked both in my friends list, and just on the waiting screen. One thing i did find out is some of the information i got on the runes may have been wrong. and that they have been updated since the post i used to copy there information from was out of date. So i am probably going to edit and fix up this post later today when i have free time. This post was mostly to get people to talk about the runes realy, and i am glad it has in some way. Thank you again for your post, and definitely for reminding me of OP.GG. Also what are your thoughts on the Blue esance VS. IP?
Rude Name (OCE)
: Upvoting this. Didn't read it, but it's an impressive amount of text
Thank you for upvoting. but pleas do read posts before just upvoting. otherwise you do risk upvoting things that are just to troll the riot community.
CppL (EUW)
: Thats alooooooot of reading dude...
: > [{quoted}](name=BoilTheOil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=583TpPYy,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-12-17T14:59:38.283+0000) > > This guy said garen should use aftershock {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} Stopped reading there, not only did he say use aftershock, but he said Garen and Darius are tanks, lul. Thank god he's not in charge of balance.
Im not saying he should us aftershock, but that he can, and that he is a tank. he and Darius both. Darius is at least more of a bruiser, so its not confusing to see him go full damage instead of health items. But before Garen could crit on his E he was mostly a health tank bruiser. and if you keep reading i do state that most players wont use this rune on Darius, and instead would go for domination instead. i see domination on him the most. That dosent change the fact he dose have health tank stats and that he was once, apon a time, he was to be a 1 on 1 counter to garen. as they were both just health tanks with good ults way back when. Thank you for posting your comment, and for at least trying to read this post tho, i know its allot.
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zenrathk

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