: Except the new FlexQ IS working now and, except the name change to fool those who were not paying attention, it's exactly the same as old DynamicQ. The problem around DynQ was always a problem of perception, with Pro and Streamers making a ruckus and the rest of the playerbase repeating their argument, even though that wasn't the case in most MMR. Not to mention that for DynQ too, there was this aspect of "people who are OK with the current system don't take the time to come and complain on the boards".
No, it isn;t the same. Dynamic queue saw 5 stacks, 4 stacks forcing 1 person to be autfilled against 2+3 stacks, all solos, 2 dup 1 solo ect. Matchmaking was never even because riot would match higher stacked teams (so 3's, 4's and 5's) against higher ranked players. Matches were never even and the entire season was a complete mess. At most we have duo queue currently, as it was prior to dynamic
: I can see why it might look like we're not paying attention to feedback or being open-minded if you're looking at feedback through the lens of Reddit/boards comments. I want explain why that might not be the entire picture: - Reddit and boards are communities that tend to bias toward certain qualities (mostly western, etc), so they don't provide a clear picture of our entire player base even though they're large. As a result, we have to look at additional data from surveys to understand how players feel about things we're working on - Players are significantly less likely to post about how they like a feature. As a result, oftentimes neutral-to-positive sentiment gets under-represented compared to negative sentiment to a large degree - Hopefully we've shown through posts like [/dev: Addressing Your Feedback on Ranked for 2019](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2018/06/dev-addressing-your-feedback-on-ranked-for-2019/) that we're definitely listening and making changes All that aside, we want to test out position ranks because we really think we're onto something. Right now, it's super frustrating to play off-positions because those games feel less winnable. As a result, even if you otherwise _want_ to play multiple positions competitively, you feel like you can't because the games won't be fair and your rank will suffer. When we look at win rates for off-positions and how frequently players play off-positions in Ranked compared to other queues, we can see those are real problems. Positional matchmaking and position ranks gives us a shot at fixing those and giving players a lot more transparency and insight into how good they are at different positions. We totally agree there's a chance it won't work out as intended, which is why we're testing the ability to revert position ranks in case of any major issue, technical or otherwise. We're not afraid to scrap work if we make something that's genuinely bad, but we believe position ranks is a legitimate upgrade to matchmaking and the Ranked experience. We're open to being wrong, but we plan to see how the previews go before concluding it's not feasible. Thanks for your feedback, really appreciate you taking the time to write it up.
All that I ask, is do not repeat the dynamic queue year. If this system turns out to work, fan-freakintastic. But if the opposite is to occur... please do not smash our faces into the ground for months on end trying to fix it. You've said it here, and proven in the past that you're willing to go back to the drawing board and revert it until it's beter. But at the same time for other issues it seems you prefer to leave what is fundamentally flawed in place while working around it, causing an even bigger problem in the first place. Or, it simply takes too long because you're unsure as to what to do (what appeared to be the main cause of dynamic queue nightmare). If it backfires, don't hesitate. You'll earn far more praise and respect for acting swiftly than to drag it on. I wish your work in the execution of this feature the best of luck.
Even (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=AbyssBeast,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=e5Fy3Mmd,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-01-12T06:53:05.336+0000) > > Junglers are constantly on the move and don't risk much by placing wards. This makes it easier to develop the habit and harder to forget > Where as in lane you stop farming and put yourself at risk to ward. And your so hell bent on focusing on your farm that it's ez to forget Junglers don't have a sightstone
> [{quoted}](name=Even,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=e5Fy3Mmd,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-12T19:18:22.784+0000) > > Junglers don't have a sightstone Doesn't mean it gets used. they have less places to ward as well. trinkets alone will manage river entrance to lane
Even (NA)
: How come jg average is only about 2 less than support.
> [{quoted}](name=Even,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=e5Fy3Mmd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-12T04:07:33.641+0000) > > How come jg average is only about 2 less than support. Junglers are constantly on the move and don't risk much by placing wards. This makes it easier to develop the habit and harder to forget Where as in lane you stop farming and put yourself at risk to ward. And your so hell bent on focusing on your farm that it's ez to forget
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 11
> Jungler pressure/gank threat > Gank frequency/early jungle pressure's an issue on our radar too. At present we want to see where lowered damage, likely nerfs to very dominant early gankers and reduced camp scaling leave things then assess how pressure’s looking. Do agree that jungle threat on lanes can be a bit too constricting at present however. This issue here is we have nothing else to do because we can out clear our jungle camps. Dragons are too strong to solo for most junglers so what do we do? Gank Gank Gank and Gank some more. IF you want to reduce gank frequency, revert the increased camp respawns so we can power farm if we need to. Meh with the interactivity, at this point we can probably agree that there's too much of it from junglers
: Sejuani zac poppy galio and maokai all have less damage than pre rework. Galio was a mage/ bruiser prerework was played like a tank by people who didnt know how he worked due to his Good CCing ult and was reworked as such which is why he still has horrible base stats.
{{champion:3}} Q more potential damage due to health ratio. Way better AP ratio E lower base later, better AP ratio His R is indeed weaker, but was intended to be a defensive steroid disruption until they removed the ally steroid. {{champion:113}} Merely had damage moved around. Her R deals more damage and the damage removed from Q and E were shoved into her icebreaker passive. Her W deals more damage {{champion:154}} stats rearranged. Traded damage for more CC. Q ended up with more damage with some damage shaved off his w,e,r. Maokai is indeed weaker than pre rework
: I said low damage not no damage, tanks certainly do not need their current level of damage. As it stands tanks are currently not very tanky and can pretty much burst squishy champs. If tanks need damage for jungle you can simply put X does +% damage to minions and monsters on their spells. Pretty simple solution.
Most tank damage increases have been due to reworks or mini reworks {{champion:113}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:12}} And then the one outlier who's just stupid due to his W {{champion:516}}. Galio is plain stupid and riot don't know what to do with him. {{champion:150}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:111}} along with most support tanks are fine imo > If tanks need damage for jungle you can simply put X does +% damage to minions and monsters on their spells. Pretty simple solution. They can but they don't. Season 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, most jungle tanks are garbo tier unless they directly counter someone (eg rammus) with the 3 tank reworks being pro play problems for a few months. I've asked about that solution in the past to buff naut jg and meddler said they try not to go that route if possible. If I were to nerf their damage I'd nerf their burst spells (as tanks generally are meant to deal DPS) {{champion:12}} Q base nerfed {{champion:32}} Cursed touch true damage 10% to 8%. Bandage toss nerfed by 10 dmg/lvl. {{champion:3}} Base damage and AP scaling nerfed on P, Q, E. + Q base health% reduced to 1% from 2%. Ally damage reduction given back to his R. MR scalings added to his Q and R. {{champion:79}} Q base damage nerfed. E hitbox fixed, flash interaction removed. W base damage reduction halved at all ranks, scaling increased to 6% per 100 HP **Ideally change him back to a pure mage, he deals too much damage for a tank, and is too fat to be a brawler like rumble or elise** {{champion:57}} Q base damage nerfed. W turned into a skillshot dash. {{champion:516}} Shield returned to his W. Brittle %HP ratio nerfed {{champion:78}} Q %HP value reduced to 5% {{champion:113}} reverted or partially reverted {{champion:98}} reverted {{champion:154}} Ultimate reverted. If a tank hasn't been suggested, tis cos I think they're fine or weak
: Make tanks tanky while dealing low damage. Problem solved. Too hard for the imbeciles over at Riot games tho.
issue is tanks need dmg to jungle and lane
: Some people wanted galio to be a burst mage would not stop crying so riot listen to them and in 7.21 made him into a mage while also killing tank galio in the process since they needed to nerf the base damage to make room for the scaling. This is how I think it happened I could be wrong.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Galio, in his current state is the embodiment of what was wrong with him pre rework. He's a conflict of support (his R), mage (Q+Passive) and tank (W+E). Pre rework was the same mage (Q), support (W+E) tank (P+Q+R). This mash of play styles causes a conflict within his small playerbase of dedicated mains, who play him tank, mage or support. Balancing him is a no win situation, as at most you can please 2/3 of the base (tank or mage individually, and support)
: Gardian of The Waste Garen https://78.media.tumblr.com/00857279b270e62f845867c7c7e5f28f/tumblr_ox5esrG1qp1s7s6mlo1_1280.jpg Unprepared Garen http://i.imgur.com/HNfTgeu.png[/img] DunkMaster Garen http://pm1.narvii.com/6023/1cc7eb1a5dd1969d4bbdfb63b310d7f128654d20_hq.jpg Pool Party Garen https://68.media.tumblr.com/cf864ddaa0a05e1fb3c4827cface9ae2/tumblr_o9n81d8ueC1sjbhk1o1_500.jpg Others less cool here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/io7U1qYF-garen-skins-idea?comment=000300000000 DEEEEMAAAACIAAAAAA!
Unprepared garen omegalawl. I laughed so hard... even more when I opened it....I want it bad
: I sure did enjoy when tanks were dominating top haha! Very fun and engaging gameplay! I'm pretty sure most top laners will tell you conqueror actually IMPROVED the state of the lane.
The issue we saw with tanks top was damage buffs (mao, grag, naut) which we saw a worse case off with ornn and his stupidly overloaded W brittle. This demonstrates Riot's stupid design philosophy regarding damage. While I want tanks to be viable top, I don't want them to be strong because of their damage. Make resolve as strong as precision, nerf their single target damage a tad (so we don't hinder their jungle performance). Then tanks should in theory maintain their weak pre-recall phase where they can be decimated if played stupidly However if we crush damage too much, tank match ups become uninteractive farm fests which isn't fun for anyone. If it is too high the larger non tank top playerbase suffers for it. But if we get it just right tanks should have a decent power curve and be able to whittle down an opponent through short trades, winning due to beef rather than damage output
: The decision to make zyra/malz minion "merely accessories" was done during the decision to change their health system. The point is, that these changes didn't happen causally, they were made in parallel. Trust me, I don't actually want to see heim's turrets to get the same treatment. But that said, his primary ability turrets don't have any justification to be more than an accessory piece of his kit, anymore than malz/zyra. Given that it mostly revolves around them in a similar manner to malzhar. They're just there to make farming possible and provide a little extra complementary damage to his kit. Do they deserve the same treatment? Yeah, but only if wants to be consistent with the way that they design the game. Not that I wanted any of the champions in question to get this kind of back handed treatment by riot. They clearly don't care about a cohesive and consistent design philosophy however, made evident by the numerous changes of itemization, reworks, and other systems within the game. If they did they would've just made a new game... or at the very least created another independent development team for a different game mode. If they feel that such a tool in the game is unhealthy, it doesn't suddenly become healthy by being in another champion's kit. Case and point. {{champion:76}} {{champion:142}}
Heim's turrets are more than an accessory... sorry to be rude but did you read the whole thing? The justification is that his entire kit revolves around that spell. His passive, his W+E+R. And his success sits on 2 pillars, turrets and the rest of his kit. As stated, zyra/malz minions were always secondary Those turrets are 50% of heims damage output. They are his wave control. Without them he is helpless. Malz/zyra can function fine without them. The health system on zyra has never changed. It was doubled last year but not changed systematically. Malzahar health was changed to make his minions harder to keep large numbers of in season 6, this remained post rework. They are not the same level of tools. Heimer turrets are not merely accessories and never have been. Meanwhile Malz/zyra minions have always been secondary.
: I mean, there have been viable balanced champions in the past with minions that aren't made out of origami. They've since been given the health system, but clearly it's working if riot keeps doing it.
It isn't really working doe. Malzahar has been performing poorly and a majority of mains have been begging for a revert. zyra is strong due to her base damage on Q+E, her ranged plants are good with her R. But most are able to walk away scot free and they rarely decide a fight (see her lack of mid lane play)
: Heimerdinger should have his turrets reworked to a similar health system as malzahar or zyra
> All i'm saying is I don't see why heimerdinger's turrets, or any champion's minions, should feel good to use. They should when their entire kit revolves around utilizing them. Malz/zyra have generally been spells first minions second. Heim, they're equal first. He can't use 1 effectively without the other. Being able to one spell them, will make him completely unviable > ecause those systems have proven to make champions so much healthier and fair. He is relatively healthy, and definitely is fair. I've played both sides of the match up countless times, especially pre RW when he was more popular but also more unhealthy as his towers were stronger at the time. Many champions can already smash his towers to bits because they're so fragile early. {{champion:103}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:34}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:136}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:518}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:45}} That's a significant portion of the mid lane roster. I personally like picking anivia because heim can literally do nothing to me. So explain why he shouldn't in more detail. 1. Heim's turrets are not merely accessories like zyra/malz minions. They're just as important as his spells. His turret laser is a huge chunk of his burst (due to the dmg reduction on W) and he relies on his spells to proc them, and the turrets to be there for when he does. He lacks a spam spell or cheap and safe wave clear. His turrets fulfill this purpose. Most mages have an AOE spell that will hit an entire wave (lux E, Aol Q, annie W, velkoz W+E, akali Q, syndra Q, malz DOT, ect ect ect). Using his E leaves him open, W can't go through minions and enemies take reduced dmg from extra missiles. If you disagree. Go play 5-10 games of heim. Don't place any turrets incl ult+Q. And see how you fair. Then do the same with malz/zyra. Their minions are almost irrelevant to their success given how fast they pop, in exchange zyra gets higher DPS potential with R. 1. He is relatively healthy and definitely fair The unhealthy aspect generally comes in vs melee opponents against which he is oppressive until they buy adaptive helmet. After which they generally have the advantage. He's fair as his W is a blockable skillshot and he has 1 CC spell which is generally difficult to hit due to it's missile speed and low range (unless R+E). Against any of the champs mentioned, he's a free gank lane. He's really a glorified ult bot late game as his turrets melt at that stage and take too long to place. I love silly heimers who permashove. One naut hook or hec E gets him away from his turrets. Then he's helpless. When reading the tone comes a bit aggressive. Not my intention just providing my view
Moody P (NA)
: i can't help but feel like base stats aren't distributed fairly
A good example is seeing where tanks sacrifice stats for their kits, where many other champions do not. Eg zac/mundo trade health regen for sustain passives. Shield tanks sacrifice health for the most part
: Can't understand why we can't just give all champs at start. Is smbody rly buying them with RP or why? Like what is point of grinding currency in MOBA?
> [{quoted}](name=Chase The Gas,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zhZvjExB,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-30T07:48:16.239+0000) > > Can't understand why we can't just give all champs at start. Is smbody rly buying them with RP or why? Like what is point of grinding currency in MOBA? Bolster their income
: It's because of keystones and runes reforged making early damage way higher than before. Defenses can't keep up, unless you're fed on a tank you are not tanky and get melted like everyone else.
That and def item nerfs, offensive item buffs and a lack of compensation changes to both
Anìmê (NA)
: The Damage Creep Meta is a Complex Issue with Many Sources that Have Caused it.
Sweet read Just to add a figure for the tank items. 850 health and 55 armor lost in item stats
: Pretty shocking to see Riot not even talking to us anymore.
Eons3 (NA)
: Why do people actively try to prevent themselves from being carried or assisted in winning.
Boredom. Unless one is crushing the enemy, one does not enjoy their time. If one does not enjoy their time they have zero incentive to try and every incentive to make the game end asap to try their gamble next game. This appears to be the mindset plaguing the game. But most don't do the last part, at least not blatantly. They'll endlessly split, let allies/towers die but they'll remain relevent enough and silent in chat so that nothing can be pinned on them. It is a very difficult problem to stop due to how covert it is.
: Review of Season 8 Issues <-> Possible solutions
> My Thread was deleted from Gameplay+ due to the fact that it is "too big". I feel you babe. On the resolve tree: I feel adding the team buff to shield bash robs it of potential beef it could otherwise grant. I really like the unflinching change and agree with the demolish change. My ideal change log for the resolve tree: Replace shield bash with "courage of the colossus": when disabling an enemy champ (so using hard CC) you gain a shield equal to 5% of your max health (returning mastery) Font of life: changed, no longer excludes the user from healing. User heals at 1/2 the amount. Conditioning: now grants 5% bonus armor and magic resist, increases to 10% at 10 minutes then 15% at 20 minutes. Second wind changed: Now increases all healing affects by 10% while below 25% health. Chrysalis: Grants 50 health, every take down adds an additional 50 health. Can occur up to 3 times for a total of 200 health. Final row: existing runes unchanged. Goal there to bring it closer to this http://abccbaandy.github.io/league-S4mastery-calc/#dGkhjhBvd My god that mastery tree > Nautilus small adjustment which hopefully bring him back into a playable state: > Passive(Rework) Staggering Sink: Nautilus first basic attack will root his target for 0.5 seconds, attacking a second time will root the target for 0.75 seconds and attacking a third time will root for 1 second. The 3 roots Can stack on the same target or apply to different targets. The first root will do 20 bonus physical damage, the second 35 and the third 50. Each Root has a 2 seconds duration to proc, failing to proc the first will consequently not proc the next ones. The Roots and damage will work on jungle monsters and minions, reducing the passive cooldown by 10% with each root. > Passive cooldown increased to 12 seconds; > Nautilus attack speed growth per level reduced by 50%; > Nautilus Q damage reduced by 20 for each level; >>> 60 / 100 / 140 / 180 / 220 > Nautilus W mana cost lowered from 80 to 60; > Nautilus W Shield strength base stat increased by 15 for each level and max health ratio increased by 1.5% for each level; >>> 75 / 85 / 95 / 105 / 115 (+ 10.5 / 11.5 / 12.5 / 13.5 / 14.5% maximum health) > Nautilus E Damage Per Wave lowered by 15 for each level; >>> 45 / 70 / 100 / 130 / 160 > Nautilus E Slow increased by 5% for each level; >>> 35 / 40 / 45 / 50 / 55% > Nautilus R target damage reduced by 50 for each level (Secondary damage follows the same logic); >>> 150 / 250 / 400 > Nautilus Level 2 R stun duration reduced by 0.25 seconds| Level 3 R Stun duration reduced by 0.50 seconds; >>> 1.25 / 1.50 Naut main here. This will kill him and likely turn him back into the top/bot lane monster that saw him gutted for pro play while removing him from jg forever. Overall you've nerfed damage, CC and cooldowns for a small defensive boost. 1. The passive CD will hurt his jungle clear and he rarely gets 2 procs off in a 1 fight to begin with. 2. As much as I like atk speed, coup de grace+atk speed rune gives him equivalent atk speed to old runes (which is all he needs) 3. While the Q change likely wouldn't do too much, I don't see why you're doing it in the first place (it's already rather low) 4. W changes. This is a disaster waiting to happen and will make him a monster in lane (something I feel like we should avoid) 5. E change crushes his jungle clear. Overall you've reduced his hard CC, in exchange for soft CC. His jungle clear has been destroyed and his R nerfed for no apparent reason. **But most of all, you've changed so much to achieve so little.** All that, for a power neutral or negative result in the jungle? And overall nerf in lane. I could achieve the same outcome, more beef, as much CC. Titans wrath > Cooldown reverted to 18 from 12. Duration reverted to 10 from 6 > Shield values changed to pre patch 5.1 > base shield increased to 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 / 300. Bonus changed to +15% of **bonus** health. From "9 / 10 / 11 / 12 / 13%" max health "Nautilus has been struggling a lot and players have no choice but to rely on his Ult for teamfights" He currently is there for his picking ability, his ult is merely an accessory. Sure it makes the biggest bang, but it team fights he's there for the passive, E and hook. The R nerf will crush his level 6 all in during lane. The slow increase is almost irrelevant as if he's close enough to apply it you're likely passive+hook+ulted. The slow will expire long before they can actually move again. While you say "The new passive and the buffed W should help Jungle Nautilus players to clear the jungle fairly well too" your changes will have either a neutral or negative effect in relation to this position (where I play him). As we remove damage from his E, for a durability buff that won't make his shield last any longer. At most, as current he will get 3 hits out of it early on against blue buff and 2-3 against red and his ability to clear raptors, krugs and wolves is smashed. Apologies for the bluntness. But riot has crushed him once already, he's currently F- tier in the jungle and these changes are, unnecessarily overcomplicated changes achieve little more than to create problems. The more you change the harder a problem is to diagnose should one arise
: Kinda agree. The tanky part was just a side-bonus for later game fights and was more reliable than someone like Elise who had the CC, but not enough tankiness.
> [{quoted}](name=Draconian565,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ExBKd4HN,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-23T04:34:14.760+0000) > > Kinda agree. The tanky part was just a side-bonus for later game fights and was more reliable than someone like Elise who had the CC, but not enough tankiness. Pretty much. If they wanted a tank, why not nautilus? Far more reliable than gragas and better pick potential. Lock down? Malphite or amumu instead of sejuani. The difference between these 3 and those 2 esports tanks, is damage. Those 3 are better tanks than gragas could ever hope to be but fall short in the damage department
rujitra (NA)
: idea for gameplay plus
A primary issue to be raised is that they can often be turned into "dump your thoughts we won't look at here". Especially if it turns out to be hugely popular See mercy megathread on OW forums, it's been remade multiple times because it simply takes up that much space and has that many posts into. They then delete anything that can be redirected to a mega thread (silencing discussion elsewhere). As threads age they die, which is why new ones pop up addressing the same thing Heavy moderation, severe penalties and rioter interaction would be a must if this were to work
: They are rereworking crit? Can't they just make it a % damage increase on autos instead of RNG already.
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=YYeJbdKo,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-22T20:02:31.893+0000) > > They are rereworking crit? > > Can&#x27;t they just make it a % damage increase on autos instead of RNG already. Similar vein. Give each item a multiple of 10% crit. Every 10% reduces the auto attacks needed to crit (base of 15) and increases the dmg. 0% never 10% every 15th auto 20% every 14th 30% 13 40% 12 50% 11 60% 10 70% 9 80% 8 90% 7 100% 5 Kinda like that. Reliable (adds skill in timing auto resets). Gives them a small early boost (it would be a small % extra with early crit). IE would double the dmg
Jinxalot (NA)
: There was a lot of Gragas and Sejuani in pro play last season. Let's see what happens this season. I think Nunu will be played.
> [{quoted}](name=Jinxalot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ExBKd4HN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-22T23:43:33.654+0000) > > There was a lot of Gragas and Sejuani in pro play last season. > Let&#x27;s see what happens this season. I think Nunu will be played. They were valued for the wrong things. Gragas for his over reliable CC (his silly E+flash interaction) and high base dmg on his splash spells. Sejuani was flat out overloaded (gained 2 hard CC spells and a shit load of dmg with rework). They weren't picked as tanks, they were picked as lock down or disruption based divers
Saevum (NA)
: There is another problem for the adc in order to properly shine past 20 minutes. If you observe recent Solo Q jungle champ pool list, you may notice a lack of actual tanks being picked. There are honorable mentions tho, but in essence, the junglers prefer not to pick tanks. Which indirectly slaps the bottom lane. Same goes for supports, they rather pick mages most of the times.
> [{quoted}](name=Saevum,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xjigsvt5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-22T17:09:06.757+0000) > > There is another problem for the adc in order to properly shine past 20 minutes. > > If you observe recent Solo Q jungle champ pool list, you may notice a lack of actual tanks being picked. There are honorable mentions tho, but in essence, the junglers prefer not to pick tanks. Which indirectly slaps the bottom lane. Same goes for supports, they rather pick mages most of the times. The issue is less preference and more options. The amount of tanks that can even farm against the current meta equates to zero. They get invaded and walked over as anyone rarely comes to a junglers aid Gragas imo isn't a tank (he deals too much damage, too little CC) then we have {{champion:32}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:3}} Galio and amumu are then built damage rather than tank Every single one of these champions have been nerfed due to pro play at some point. https://op.lol/oce/AbyssBeast I feel like I'm forced to go smite ignite because otherwise, I lose by default. Without it they invade level 2 (when I don't have Q) and first blood me. With ignite, they do the same only this time I first blood them. Or they respect the ignite and don't do it at all. I'd like nothing more than to be able to play my tanks the way they were meant to be played and for the tools they offer. Not for their innate damage (grag), not full AP (amumu) and not because they're outright busted (galio).
: The majority of mid lane mages are not going to let you walk into them and land a free ult. Disguised or not, it doesn't matter. If you allow any champion to walk into your for free in order to land a key ability, then you will die. Her W is only a 0.5s stealth, so she cannot use it to hide her channel either, Also everyone has a way to easily break her disguise as she walks towards you.
> [{quoted}](name=Still Virgiñ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VqA9pUTF,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2018-12-22T04:52:29.459+0000) > > The majority of mid lane mages are not going to let you walk into them and land a free ult. > > Disguised or not, it doesn&#x27;t matter. If you allow any champion to walk into your for free in order to land a key ability, then you will die. > > Her W is only a 0.5s stealth, so she cannot use it to hide her channel either, Also everyone has a way to easily break her disguise as she walks towards you. She lands E and she will gladly stroll up to u. It's about 1.3 times larger than it actually shows with the projectile and one cannot hide behind minions. Sooner or later one is going to hit you purely based on probability and when it does, she's gonna stroll on up and press R
: Her Q was the problematic part of her kit. not her easily avoided ult.
> [{quoted}](name=Still Virgiñ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VqA9pUTF,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-21T23:41:00.877+0000) > > Her Q was the problematic part of her kit. not her easily avoided ult. For the majority of mid lane mages, it is not easily avoidable. They lack on demand dashes outside of the one off flash, and are slowed during it's so called channel
: There is counter play. Akali is an assassin. They THRIVE on getting their prey alone. How does one counter being alone? By having their TEAM with them IN A TEAM game. Can't die to someone that's dead. *ahem*... Karthas, Sion and Teemo excluded.
> [{quoted}](name=TROUBLE66,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kuFfpb2b,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-20T19:26:27.675+0000) > > There is counter play. Akali is an assassin. They THRIVE on getting their prey alone. How does one counter being alone? By having their TEAM with them IN A TEAM game. Can&#x27;t die to someone that&#x27;s dead. *ahem*... Karthas, Sion and Teemo excluded. All 5 mid during laning phase? Wot?
: Riot, I think it's time to move on. Or should I say, move forward.
What if they made a glorious metroidvania. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-rainbows}} {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-rainbows}} {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-rainbows}} Souls like games where you go through each region. I can see these regions working SO FKEN WELL! We have 11 main areas split into 4 groups, 3 continents, 2 cities and 2 groups of islands and space. Continent 1: Demacia, Noxus, Freijord City pair: Piltover and Zaun Continent 2: Jungle, Shurima, Mount Targon Continent 3: Ionia Islands: Shadow isles, Bilgewater The void The God-like or Royalty of each area could act as area bosses. And you could slowly turn yourself into your ideal or favorite champion based on gear and armor (eg could end up with lissandra vs lissandra if you went into ice based magic and found her armor set). I'd probs remove much of the lesser characters (150 ish bosses is nuts, and there isn't a whole lot you can do with non god-like enemies to make them enticing)
AR URF (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hayaishi2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HXERGR9T,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-18T05:38:28.314+0000) > > {{champion:74}} ? yeah, but his turrets don't exactly focus you unless there are no minions around and he lands his stuff.
And even then, if you know how to handle a heimer the situation reverses and the heim tilt feeds you because his camp cheese strat isn't working, resulting in him having zero lane priority and kill pressure (he becomes an ult E bot). (that and he has a crap tonne of counters who're stronger than him atm like malz, kass, karth, cass, ahri, neeko, anivia to name a few. My personal fave is the bird in that match up)
Mc Raton (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Pandemic Punch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AwYJjr26,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-18T00:41:08.719+0000) > > Blitzcrank is one of the top 4 picks right now in solo queue platinum+. > > That said, I kinda know what you mean. He can make or break games depending on the skill of the player and if your team gets stomped, Blitzcrank lacks the tools to have any agency over salvaging it. He just runs around and no matter who he hooks, that enemy champ will 1v5 your team after being hooked because they are so far ahead :D Make or break a game is no where a fun fact for either the users and the opponent.. Thresh and Blitz are basically the same way, hit a hook, win the fight, don't hit a hook get behind or lose the fight... but if they hit this lucky hook late in the game where death timer are high it's basically good game..You also can't counter Hook as they are considered a knock-back except Thresh wich you can QSS but since he hitted you, he got cooldown refresh so he will most likely hit it soon enought.
It's better than 2v2 farm fests because of enchanter ardent champs who spam heal all lane phase. Like vsing malz or anivia... just so boring because it discourages interaction
: "Most people" "One person" Man, I was so wrong.
Those "most people" play a tank once, try to play them like a diver/juggernaut then start sooking and crying because they can't solo carry. If tanks do the job they're meant to, that won't change because that job isn't damage.
Wuks (NA)
: Seems to be working for me now!
Thanks for your time mate, have a great day/night
: From what i've seen, season 1-2 wasn't very balanced either but hey idk I didn't play back then.
No single season was balanced. They were balanced to different degrees and in different ways. Personally i pref the longer ttk and ttd of seasons 3 4 5. As well as the broader range of viable champs
: No, but it's not ok for them to feel so awful when building tank that most people opt out of playing them at all, and when they are played they're usually building damage.
I disagree. I play naut in the jg all the time, full tank. And he's F- tier and I still wreck
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yaWOnuVw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-16T03:46:25.016+0000) > > If tanks didn&#x27;t do damage, they couldn&#x27;t top, they couldn&#x27;t jungle, they couldn&#x27;t farm, they couldn&#x27;t trade, etc. Let me rephrase that. A tank shouldn’t be topping damage charts. A tank should not be dealing more damage than another role, outside of maybe enchanter supports. You should not be unkillable while having insane sustained and survivability.
Just quickly. Which champs do you have a problem with here? As in most cases individuals complain about tanks, then list 5 non tanks
Wuks (NA)
: Mostly happens after a name change. Do you have a link to the profile that's throwing a 404 error?
Hi wuks https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/player/oce/AbyssBeast Recently changed to this from KrakenKnight. Thanks mate {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} Edit: seems to work on phone.
ODiiiiiN (NA)
: Yea because someone who "likes her" and is a "Neeko player" is going to write a post about how and where she should be nerfed. Do you think you're fooling anyone with this bullshit? Guarantee you're a salty OP main (Yas/akali/irelia/zed.. etc) and you dont like getting beat by her.
I main heim, kled, nautilus, nunu and vel'koz. Against her have lost and won. As her have lost and won. She's fun af playing as a roaming champ
: i was too scared to complain about her cuz i thought id be downvoted to hell and back, BUT THIS!
Tbh so was I because there's been little talk about her in this regard haha
: I won't argue about Neeko because there's no point to doing so because this is Gameplay (she gets her shield when she lands btw and it's usually not enough when she does so unless she is fed and she stops to jump in the air and do her whole thing which gives ample time to move) but I would like to note that Heimer alao follows up his E with missiles which then do a ton more damage and proc all three turrets again for some pretty crazy 100-0 combos.
> I won't argue about Neeko because there's no point to doing so because this is Gameplay Don't think of it as an argument, think of it as a discussion. From that view I've only argued with one person on the boards, and it was hilarious. > she gets her shield when she lands btw and it's usually not enough when she does so unless she is fed and she stops to jump in the air and do her whole thing which gives ample time to move I know. However @ level 6 it is unlikely you'll be able to 100-0 her in 1.25 seconds. The issue isn't the shield alone. It's the entire package: shield, unstoppable channel, slow during channel, stun then damage held to the standard of a channel. (see nunu comparison). One doesn't have ample time to move because one is slowed. > but I would like to note that Heimer alao follows up his E with missiles which then do a ton more damage and proc all three turrets again for some pretty crazy 100-0 combos. Neeko can then follow E+Q with W autos+R. Did say that heimer has the potential to do her job better. But she is able to get better value out of those 2 similar tools. Hell the best heimer combo is R+E+W for a quad laser combo which would crush her.
: > [{quoted}](name=AbyssBeast,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EP24jjmh,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-12-15T22:48:48.929+0000) > > The mid lane roster that lacks this {{champion:34}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:136}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:4}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:112}} Why are you including champions like Rumble, Kayle, and Zyra? Why _aren't_ you including Kassadin? He has a blink but it takes .5 seconds to cast and he doesn't even acces it until 6. As for Syndra, she can just clap back with a stun and smash Neeko by pressing R.
This list was in response to "Her e is dodgable if you have some sort of dashing ability," I included rumble because I play and see him mid. Kayle/zyra mostly because they like, auto lock in my brain because they were primarily mid laners when I started. Didn't include kass because he's stupidly strong right now.
Moody P (NA)
: if we're being entirely honest both of these champs are weak and need some pretty heavy handed buffs atm
Until their mechanics that players find frustrating are addressed, these champions will have to be abysmally weak in order to not have absurdly high ban rates. I mean that's where their ban rates stem from, few care how strong they are, they just never want to see them in a game
: Neeko's abilities and how she applies damage are perfectly fine. If she needs any changes, it's her numbers. She simply does too much damage. Her second and third hits of Q should do more and her first Q should do less. I think her ult is fine, she's a mage and if she's getting that close to ult someone she's probably going to die afterwards. Without flash, it's hard to have any impact with it especially early in the game. If her ult was stoppable, then it would be useless. If there are any changes to her ult, she should have the damage ramp up while channeling/moving and then be able to activate it again to apply the cc/shield. This makes her do way less burst damage but that probably isnt needed if her Q and E dmg is reduced.
> Neeko's abilities and how she applies damage are perfectly fine. If she needs any changes, it's her numbers. She simply does too much damage. Her second and third hits of Q should do more and her first Q should do less. Agree > I think her ult is fine, she's a mage and if she's getting that close to ult someone she's probably going to die afterwards. Without flash, it's hard to have any impact with it especially early in the game. If survivability is the concern then buff the shield but remove the CC immunity. It should not have that many components and certainly shouldn't be unstoppable. If it's going to be this false channel, may as well nerf the damage and make it instant
: She's been out a little over a week. You are demanding a nerf. It speaks for itself...
Demanding no. Suggesting yes. It doesn't take a week to test her damage output. If I buffed zed's Q to deal quad damage, would we need a week to assess the outcome?
: Her damage is so unreliable enough though, less and she wouldn't be able to hit anybody. Q; the aoe is tiny and the root lays hardly long enough to keep you for all 3 procs. E: a slow skill shot that's only deadly when it hit a few things already from far away. R: A suicide mission of an attack for a squishy. Even if she disguises it you should be attacking somebody who just walks at you. OK, maybe her W is reliable to every third hit, and her autos are good, but hell; she needs it.
Oh my, a a troll made my day {{sticker:zombie-nunu-hearts}} 1. no 2. speeds up through a minion wave 3. suicide? Massive shield, can't be stopped.
Gilgayu (NA)
: Neeko is pretty balanced. Her e is dodgable if you have some sort of dashing ability, or you can dodge it if you have good reaction time. Her q is mostly only garranteed 2 hits in team fights, and its numbers are okay, considering how squshy neeko is. Her ult is powerful, yes, but beside that there really isn't any impactful thing in her kit. She is like a shaco with more dmg and more mind games
> Neeko is pretty balanced. I agree, I feel she just needs a little tuning down. Not to be crushed, to have their toe stepped on > Her e is dodgable if you have some sort of dashing ability, or you can dodge it if you have good reaction time. That applies to just about any spell. The mid lane roster that lacks this {{champion:34}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:136}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:4}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:112}} Her Q case is speaking during laning phase, during team fights her R is the star of the show. It is difficult to avoid due to it's fat AOE, speed and lack of telegraph. Given this hitbox if you get hit in the center you will take 2 procs minimum. Her R can be powerful, however it should not be 99% full proof. Remove components, buff elsewhere. Look at nunu for example: R slows, shield and deals damage. It lacks a stun, unstoppable and takes way longer to reach it's damage peak. In exchange he gets a stronger slow and more damage. I'd be perfectly fine for say, example 2: remove unstoppable, buff the damage or shield. Or any of the 4, and giving her compensation. Currently it's about how her ult feels to deal with rather than how balanced it is. Currently it feels like a yasuo windwall or a zoe W. Cheap. She presses it and there's nothing you can do about it. > but beside that there really isn't any impactful thing in her kit. I feel you really underestimate her E+Q. I've seen neekos who're slightly ahead (say 5/2 ish) bring their opposition down to 100ish hp with an E+Q
: How did I know someone would complain in about a weeks worth of time...
You say that as if it's merely complaint for the sake of complaint. I've proposed a potential issue, why I feel it is so, and a possible solution. Go elsewhere if you do not wish to be constructive
Rioter Comments
wolf jade (EUNE)
: who to get?
Liss, way more fun. Diving in and disrupting the enemy. Malz to me is just a point and click spam bot
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AbyssBeast

Level 97 (OCE)
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