Zerenza (NA)
: I don't think it was an overall buff, her winrate still dropped by quite a bit was 56% now it's 52% she just didn't need it, she most certainly stronger before the nerf.
It dropped while people were re-learning her trading patterns. Now, depending on the elo -- 52% plat+, 53% diamond+ 55-56% (depending where you look) master+ -- it is back up, and climbing.
Zerenza (NA)
: It did still nerf her quite well they just had no reason to give her a compensation buff alongside it, reducing her E cooldown(the last spell an inexperienced Riven player would max) makes her trading potential in lane a lot lower, usually riven will use her Q to deal her damage then E away to reduce incoming damage after the trade is over, if the cooldown is higher she can't take trades as much and her E+W cancel is extremely good at disengaging in those early trades as well, meaning you can Q Fast Combo then just E+W cancel to complete disengage the fight and get all your damage for basically free. Another common combo is to engage using your E, you usually only do this against champions that like to kite you though so it's less common and she'll frequently lose the trade. TLDR: The nerf was a good nerf but i completely agree that they didn't need to reduce her Q cooldown at all.
That was my entire point. The E nerf was impactful, but with the Q compensation it became an overall buff.
: They need to revert the buff to her dashes. The reduced it's CD b/c they nerfed her E. Basically they said fuck you to the community and gave her more mobility and a little less up time on her shield. They really soft buffed her and tried to pretend it was a nerf...
And so many people were like "HURRRR THIS IS A HUGE NERF" when it really obviously was not. How is buffing a champion's damage, in a meta that revolves entirely around damage, a nerf? Her problem was never that she was too tanky.
: Played since season 2 and this is my first comment ever and its to necro a thread :) Just uninstalled for this very reason. - You die in one cc because of the burst and tenacity seems bugged. I've sat in CC from 1 ability on multiple occasions for up to 8 seconds with mercs. Not that it should matter because no champ in the game has 8 second cc at any point. Spaghetti code programmers. - Games bugged beyond belief on many other champion mechanic interactions. - Players still leave lobby without much consequence -- there should be 60min penalty at the least or fix que system either way. - They have been rotating what's "op" every season, and this season it's mages -- again, which is cancerous considering tenacity is bugged to shit. - Dev's are liberal hipsters with good social skills and sharp smiles which apparently helps them keep their job over -- being good at their job. - Riot is so big in the Esports scene now that they don't listen at all and probably never will again. - The only allow certain types of personalities to play in the pro scene. Mostly it's just 85 pound 20 year olds with hipster haircuts and non-prescription glasses that say things like, "are you actually" or "wait that's actually" that teenagers in high school can still relate to because well.. They still look like high school kids.. Kinda sad really. I just miss the league that was if you won lane you could solo carry your garbo team.. Yeah that doesn't exist anymore really because 1 bounty can change everything you've built if some champ with 8 cc abilities which also deal 800 damage each gets the bounty.
I fully agree that damage is ridiculous, CC and mobility are out of control, and the current state of the game is just awful...however...a lot of your claims are ludicrous, blatant, outright bullshit. > You die in one cc because of the burst and tenacity seems bugged. I've sat in CC from 1 ability on multiple occasions for up to 8 seconds with mercs. Not that it should matter because no champ in the game has 8 second cc at any point. Spaghetti code programmers. No you haven't. Unless you can provide proof no one will ever believe this, because the claim is ridiculous. There WERE times back in S1/S2 when getting hit with 2 knockups would bug out and send you rocketing into the air for a long time...but that is a thing long passed. > Games bugged beyond belief on many other champion mechanic interactions. Yeah. There are bugs. Some of them are game breaking. "RIIIIIIIGHT THROUGH THE COUNTERSTRIKE!!" This is a valid complaint. > Players still leave lobby without much consequence -- there should be 60min penalty at the least or fix que system either way. How can you have played since S2 and not know about the queue penalty? I don't dodge games, but have had friends DC while in lobby together. The first dodge is 5 mins. The second is 15. The third is much higher 1 or 12 hours or something. They go up exponentially. Ranked dodgers also lose LP. > They have been rotating what's "op" every season, and this season it's mages -- again, which is cancerous considering tenacity is bugged to shit. I really don't think tenacity is bugged. It doesn't work on movement displacement CC, and maybe that's what you're experiencing. > Dev's are liberal hipsters with good social skills and sharp smiles which apparently helps them keep their job over -- being good at their job. What the hell are you even talking about here? When have you ever talked to the devs or seen more than one or two of them? > Riot is so big in the Esports scene now that they don't listen at all and probably never will again. Yeah, I agree to an extent with this. > The only allow certain types of personalities to play in the pro scene. Mostly it's just 85 pound 20 year olds with hipster haircuts and non-prescription glasses that say things like, "are you actually" or "wait that's actually" that teenagers in high school can still relate to because well.. They still look like high school kids.. Kinda sad really. This just makes absolutely no sense. There used to be heavier people in the LCS, but that's not the case any more because pros have learned that a healthy lifestyle with exercise and healthy food make for better training and play. More energy, better blood flow to the brain, makes for better players.
: > So your 672 with 30 mins gathering storm = 48, absolute focus = 30, elixir of sorcery = 50, stat shards = 20. This is 148 * 1.4 for death cap, or another 207.2AP, for a total of 879. So maxxed out late game, > This is not an entirely common build and you admit it hardly ever happens > These numbers are NOT unreasonable. They are very achievable, with standard builds that work in every scenario. No, your right its not "unreasonable" its EXTREMELY UNREASONABLE lol. WOOOOO a mage can get 900 - 1000k AP.......40 mins in with max stacked mejai, no boots, and end game potions......very reasonable for every game lol. > And yes, I'm aware this build does not have Morello and Void staff. It was more to prove a point. Thats the point, you ARE NOT getting to 900 - 1k AP AND having 33 +40% Magic Pen....you get one or the other, AND one of which u can only achieve LATE LATE game, lol.
Additionally. If you take those bonuses (elixir, stat shards, etc.) and add them to just the 4 items sorc shoes, death cap, void staff, morello...you only need to make up an additional 234.9AP to crack 900. Fine. Some champions might not be able to get more than 875. But, I think at that point 850-875 vs 900, you're just being pedantic. There are also a lot of champions who can easily make up that 235. Some who can go beyond it like Ryze with RoA Seraph's. My point stands, I believe. Even if champions had THE SAME AP at 500-600 as in the past, the lowered resistances and HP values make a huge impact...but we don't have the same AP values. AP values are way up. Hundreds of points up, along with penetration.
: > So your 672 with 30 mins gathering storm = 48, absolute focus = 30, elixir of sorcery = 50, stat shards = 20. This is 148 * 1.4 for death cap, or another 207.2AP, for a total of 879. So maxxed out late game, > This is not an entirely common build and you admit it hardly ever happens > These numbers are NOT unreasonable. They are very achievable, with standard builds that work in every scenario. No, your right its not "unreasonable" its EXTREMELY UNREASONABLE lol. WOOOOO a mage can get 900 - 1000k AP.......40 mins in with max stacked mejai, no boots, and end game potions......very reasonable for every game lol. > And yes, I'm aware this build does not have Morello and Void staff. It was more to prove a point. Thats the point, you ARE NOT getting to 900 - 1k AP AND having 33 +40% Magic Pen....you get one or the other, AND one of which u can only achieve LATE LATE game, lol.
Except, the maxed out build late game Mejai's build was 1200 AP at 30 minutes (1400 at 60 minutes). I also specifically stated in my original reply that it's full build. I really think you barely read my post if you're this incredulous. I even gave you a reasonable build with boots at over 900 AP. >No, your right its not "unreasonable" its EXTREMELY UNREASONABLE lol. WOOOOO a mage can get 900 - 1000k AP.......40 mins in with max stacked mejai, no boots, and end game potions......very reasonable for every game lol. I never said it was every game. I said full build mages. Also 30 minutes. Not 40. And, no Mejai's.
: Stop "balancing" ARAM
The minion changes are the god damn worst. Like, why? Who was complaining about ARAM game times?
: I understand your point. but you are not getting 1000AP with {{item:3020}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3135}} even with {{item:3027}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3907}} you are only getting to 672. maybe change out rod with Seraph if you get over 2k Mana, but its not gunna give you that big of a change. MAX AP: {{item:3089}} {{item:3907}} {{item:3027}} {{item:3040}} {{item:3285}} + max stack {{item:3041}} = roughly 1018, If you take out any one of these items and trade for boots you are less than 900 AP. Or {{item:3089}} {{item:3041}} {{item:3907}} {{item:3907}} {{item:3907}} {{item:3907}} = 1043, again if you take out any one of these items and trade for boots you are less than 900 AP. So I think we can both agree that this is NOT happening very often in this meta, as FULL builds are pretty rare just to start with. Then that full build going glass cannon, no boots, and fully stacked mejai's.
Whereas I did say items only, my AP values were assuming with runes and such. So your 672 with 30 mins gathering storm = 48, absolute focus = 30, elixir of sorcery = 50, stat shards = 20. This is 148 * 1.4 for death cap, or another 207.2AP, for a total of 879. Or your max AP build, without the Mejiai's--INCLUDING BOOTS--comes out to 1005.2AP, assuming 3k mana. 120 Deathcap 120 Spellbinder 100 RoA 50 Seraph's 90 Luden's 480 + 90 from seraph's 3k mana = 570 + 30, 48, 50, and 20 from the above rune bonuses = 718 * 1.4 = 1005. This is not an entirely common build, I'm well aware...however, with Transcendence giving 20AP for every 10 CDR above cap, it essentially makes CDR items worth nearly as much AP as high AP items, once you're at cap. Let's look at a fairly normal build for say, Xerath. I chose him because he has high base mana, but mediocre mana scaling...which will put him at average level 18 mana values. {{item:3040}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3102}} {{item:3020}} Using 20 AP stat shards, transcendence for 40AP, Gathering storm at 30 mins for 48 AP, and elixir of sorcery for 50, you get 926.8AP...for a normal build. And, I definitely said 900-1k AP then just normalized it at the high end of 1000. These numbers are NOT unreasonable. They are very achievable, with standard builds that work in every scenario. EDIT: And yes, I'm aware this build does not have Morello and Void staff. It was more to prove a point. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bonus round just for fun. {{item:3089}} {{item:3041}} {{item:3907}} {{item:3907}} {{item:3907}} {{item:3907}} 50 elixir, 20 stat shards, 48 gathering storm, 30 absolute focus = 1222.2 Or, even more ridiculous, 168 from 60 minutes of gathering storm = 1390.2
: Lol, not sure how 33 +40% is a ton, it's hardly any honestly. You get more pen from BC LW than u do from all 3 magic items.
I think there are two major things at play here, from the perspective of strictly items -- completely ignoring a plethora of other factors like runes reforged and such. The amount of mpen in items hasn't gone up other than sorc shoes going from 15 to 18, and Void Staff going from 35 to 40. Haunting Guise had 15 before Liandry's was a thing...and this is kind of part of it. Items have gone up in strength over the years. We went from having Archangel's to Seraph's. From Haunting Guise to Liandry's. And entirely new, strong, items have been added over the years as well. The likes of Luden's Echo, Protobelt, and Spellbinder. These changes have contributed to the rise in overall damage, for sure. The amount of possible AP gained by a full build champion can easily break 900-1k now. This would have been absurd even for Veigar years ago. On the defensive side of things, we have not gained very much, and have lost a lot of stats as well. Force of Nature was removed, all kinds of armor/MR/HP on items nerfed or removed...all the while damage items get stronger and more plentiful. Because of this, whereas you might have had something like 300MR and 4k HP vs 600AP w/ 30 and 35% spell penetration...you're now dealing with 250MR and 3.5k HP vs 1000AP w/ 33 and 40% spell penetration. The point I'm trying to make here is that the values of spell pen themselves might not seem all that high, and certainly haven't been increased by very much...the other half of the damage equation (resistances) has suffered, which indirectly increases the relative worth of the penetration values.
: As of 06/05/2019 her win rate in Plat+ is 49.93%. I hate facing a good Riven too but I'm not sure where you got your stats. https://champion.gg/champion/Riven/Top Unless you're looking at op.gg maybe? Her win rate today is 52% in Korea. That could it. Edit I just realized you're posing from EUW so sorry, I was using NA stats.
You really shouldn't use champion.gg. The website is infamous for being bad. Leagueofgraphs is my personal favorite, and lolalytics is pretty good too. That aside, on lolalytics, riven's master+ global winrate is currently 53, and 60 for mains. That matches the numbers OP is boasting.
: I think this has been said consistently for at least a two years now. Personally, I don’t see the whole “damage” meta thing. Yeah, the game revolves around damage and it’s especially apparent since last season, but it’s too vague to just say “damage meta”. I feel like you saying “getting one shot” is another term for excessive snowballing, which may be true for some champs but it’s been “common” for much longer than the rune update. Watch what you wish for.... I guarantee a “damage meta” is much better than a tank meta ever will be, and the current meta is significantly more stabile than this time last year.
> Yeah, the game revolves around damage and it’s especially apparent since last season, but it’s too vague to just say “damage meta”. That is essentially what meta boils down to. Understanding the influences of the game in order to see beyond the surface of it, is what a meta is. Let me give you an example. If you see a Rek'Sai on the enemy team, you can pretty much guarantee she will be building damage and running Conqueror/HoB. Even though tank Rek'Sai was strong in the past, it is not currently the best way to play her (because of damage meta, but that's irrelevant to this point.) This is her meta. You know this before even seeing the Conqueror/HoB rune, say at champ select.
: I'm speaking in terms of vs old runes/mastery. You're speaking in terms of absolute value. In terms of absolute value, it's about negating almost 1 lethality item. P.S. I could speak in absolutism about 6 AD or 10 AP too.... and what a whopping 5 damage increase or 7 damage increase on a spell could do, too. Woot.
As for the first part, I don't think you are talking about relative to the past....because this is still a lower value than we used to have. So how can that be very large relative to higher values? As for the second part, 12AD/20AP is actually far more significant in the current state of the game. Using my previous math, you can negate that bonus 30-40HP with just 3 AAs with 12 AD (maybe 4 with armor.) Or one rotation of spells' AP ratios. (In many cases just two spells.)
: erm 6 Armor/ 8 resist is pretty large..... especially if you take 2 of them. That's equiv of 12 Mark runes, or 10 Glyphs..... unless you played scaling, in which case you had no defense early game.....
No. It isn't. Even using the stacked values of 12 Armor, 16 MR, at its absolute pinnacle improvement of 0 Armor/MR (negative values notwithstanding) it is a 10.7%/13.8% increase in damage mitigation respectively, and no one starts with 0 Armor/MR. At a reasonable starting value of 30, it is a 6% and 8% damage reduction respectively. At 500HP, this means you essentially have an additional 31/43 HP. It CAN have an impact, and save your life, but 30/43 EHP is virtually nothing, even at level 1. The higher you go, the less it matters. At 100 Armor/MR you go from 50% damage reduction to 52.8% physical, 53.7% magic. And so on. It is not, by any means "pretty large."
: Two weeks after release Yuumi's win rate has climbed to 42%
Her early game is bad, but her late game is very strong. It's a matter of surviving to that point. Plus they hotfix buffed the shit out of her after release.
mack9112 (NA)
: What are your computer specs? I find these situations are usually related to your RAM receiving too many commands at once so it doesn’t recognize a que from the client. I have a sub optimal computer but never have these issues because before I play i close all programs that put any demand on my computer.
I have a monster PC and still have this shit happen occasionally. I also have a friend who plays on a toaster, takes 5-10 mins to load, and never gets more than 10FPS. He has never had this happen. It could be related to a lot of different possible things, some of them tied to the PC, but RAM is certainly not one of the possibilities.
: one and a half years? its been like this since the adc rework at the beginning of season 6
Since the addition of keystones at the beginning of season 6*
: Since her ult is a flat amount of magic damage I feel like it would be harder to do. The execute indicator would need to account for their magic resist, then for how much pen you have. Her current indicator that suggests it's gonna do double damage at least works pretty consistently as it stands. If her ultimate changed to true damage which can always be expected to do what it says on the tin, I could see her getting one of these indicators though.
It would be more difficult, only in the sense that it would require a damage vs MR/mpen formula (extremely easy to write/code.) And the indicator would need to be able to move based on how much damage it would do at the time...this would be more difficult, but probably not by much. EDIT: To clarify, I don't think this is a good idea. Understanding burst limits vs MR is an important skill that I don't want to see removed or dumbed down. My comments above are meant to serve strictly about the difficulty of implementing such.
: Imagine being wrong, and thinking your right, i can't with you bro, insanely ignorant
This is you right now. Here is more proof: Here is a shitty image of what I've been describing: https://imgur.com/nppdv8h.png Now here is the person, who has no replies, that you thought Person B (from my previous example) was replying to: https://imgur.com/v0DTj2a.png And I know, for a fact, that this is the person you thought he was replying to because of your quote here: https://imgur.com/JGiu7pN.png -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Imagine being wrong, and thinking you're right. Insanely ignorant.
: NA {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
I don't understand you. I show you where you're wrong. Give you evidence of it. Then, your response, is to imply that NA people drive you nuts...when I'm on OCE. At this point I can't tell if you're a brilliant troll or an absolute moron.
: Urgot and Pyke are the other two champions who utilize this execute indicator, and both will execute their target regardless of their defensive items (although you can qss urgot chains)
Oh, I see what you mean. I thought you were referring to literally every other execute in the game (Darius R, Lee Sin Q if not assuming true damage, etc.) EDIT: Also forgot about Urgot.
: To the Unsung Hero Who Updated Feast Indicator
> The only point of contention now is that unlike other executes it is completely invalidated by Phantom Dancer+Steraks Gage How is this unlike other executes? The only one that isn't affected by these things is Pyke's ult.
: Proves? lol
Yes. Proves. Person A (or the "he" in question when regarding your initial response) - > no, the damage is split into 4. one target the damage is divided by 4. It doesnt deal any extra damage, its just meant to keep you in there longer lmao. The extra damage is only on jg camps. Person B > Nope you are wrong the original target gets dealt 100% damage from Q but if the same target is ever alpha bounced again then additional bounces on the same target deal 25% damage per bounce. Then you claim they made the same statement. "That is literally what he said, r u stupid?" Which is not even remotely true. So, again, yes. Proves.
: low elo, low iq, i can't go back to playing your 4.8 cs vel koz in diamond zzz
IDK who you think I am, but I'm not much a fan of Vel'Koz. Oh, and it amuses me that you downvoted my statement that proves you wrong.
: ***
Also, even if someone was Iron 4, they could have an elo of like 800. That is off the charts ridiculous levels of genius IQ. I think you're not very bright.
: ***
"no, the damage is split into 4. one target the damage is divided by 4"
: ***
No. He is saying that the initial hit, and all subsequent hits, will deal 25% damage for a total of 100% damage. What is actually happening is the first target is taking 100%, then 3 hits of 25%, for a total of 175% damage. "r u stupid?"
HollowMimic (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=ArtumisPrime,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AmAxq0Aq,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-09T11:15:44.276+0000) > > Spellbook, I agree...but what is interesting about hitting someone and getting RNG rewards? I don't like RNG as well but you get a standard extra gold amount each time you hit 'em and sth extra to compensate loss of damage :P Seriously, the RNG rewards are exciting without being OP (except for the skill point potion I'd say), since it varies what you get each time.
Whereas I disagree with those rewards being exciting, I can see how someone could feel that way. However, exciting does not mean interesting.
: If youre looking at it from that mentality, any stat gives you more damage. Helth and armor/mr let you stay alive in fights longer so you can deal more damage. Slows help you stick so you can do more damage. Sustain helps you stay alive so you can do more damage. Anything can be approached that way. If the issue is damaging keystones, keep it there. When you start trying to support your point using abstract ideas it turns into a cesspool of nonsensical nonsense. Not every keystone is damage focused, that is a fact. Every keystone is certatintly made to help you preform better in a fight somehow some way, but that is besides the point.
If armor/MR/HP made you survive more than a fraction of a second longer, then I would agree with that. Those stats on their own, in the form of a singular item purchased, are useless. As an ADC, buying a Randuin's is not going to help you survive like it once did. You are just going to explode 0.2s later than you otherwise would have. As for the rest of that, it is accurate. Slows help you stick so you can deal more damage. Sustain helps you stay in the fight longer to deal more damage. These are true statements.
GripaAviara (EUNE)
: This is BS, because after the last season was over, I played out of the meta for fun and fell from G5 to S3 in a week
: I think some damage on one or two keystones is probably fine, depending on how it's done. For instance, flat damage based on level usually can be balanced relatively painlessly and is probably the best thing to use. Once AP / AD (adaptive especially is bad but I won't go into that for now) scalings are added it promotes heavy one sided snowballing (coin-flip games). Never should a Keystone or Rune have scalings added to them because of this. From a balancing perspective, it makes the least sense over all of the other options that could be implemented. Which runes do you think are the most used and popular? Take a look at League of Graphs and you can find the answers: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/runes There's some shocking information present on that site. Many people here have argued "there are a lot of runes that don't do damage!", how popular are they? Notice how the use of anything that isn't damage or sustain is non-existent. The most popular Keystones overall (from Iron and up) are: 1. Conqueror 2. Electrocute 3. Summon Aery 4. Arcane Comet None of the other ones even show up in the list of used Keystones except Aftershock if you toggle to Plat or Diamond (meaning they are rarely used compared to the others). Notice how every single one of these Keystones are the ones that deal damage? This is precisely the problem with the system, the Keystones and Runes that deal damage tend to overshadow the ones that do not. Once again, the biggest reason of this is the scaling damage Riot added on, which makes snowballing way too powerful of a strategy. I don't want to rant on and on, but I firmly believe Riot needs to rework most of the Keystones and some of the Runes in an effort to trim some of the damage from them. Some damage is fine as I said earlier, but scaling damage is problematic and it seems to be the main component they're adding to all of the Keystones which deal damage.
You're preaching to the choir with a lot of this (to the point that I'm not even sure you replied to the right person.) Scaling isn't necessarily an inherently bad thing in runes/masteries though. It is the degree to which these numbers have increased since S6 that just boggle the mind. Like 5% increased damage done to targets under 50% HP, as the strongest possible option, is not necessarily a bad thing. When you get (I'm just gonna call them masteries) masteries that are becoming strong additional passive abilities in and of themselves, it definitely presents a problem. The game wasn't built with these things in mind, and can't really support them without damage getting very far out of hand. I think the absolute biggest problem is RIOT's mentality and design philosophy recently. There is too much damage, and the way they try to fix anything in this game is by giving weak champions more damage, and nerfing the defensive capabilities of strong ones. The discussed Riven nerfs are the epitome of this ideal. Increasing her shield CD, while decreasing her Q CD. Buffing her damage while nerfing her defenses.
: > [{quoted}](name=General Matty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=71Q9vcJb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-09T11:54:00.787+0000) > > Why is this even important when all it takes is a little bit of math to figure it out. Gangplank and Jayce are just two examples of how this is not easy to keep track of. Edit: I forgot that GP's Q counts as melee for some reason. However, the point still stands for champions like Jayce, Kayle, Nidalee, Elise, Gnar, etc.
Saezio (EUNE)
: Also, it's not always x5. It could be x3,8 for example if you have landed 40% melee and 60% ranged autos. There are champs with more forms than 1
Those are fringe occurrences though. It would be a nice quality of life for 4 champions in the game. For the rest of the roster, it's very basic math that most people should be able to do in their heads quickly.
: not every rune does damage.... theres guardian, fleet, phase rush, unsealed spellbook, klepto, glacial augment. 6 / 20 aint too bad
Guardian, I agree. To an extent Fleet Footwork as well, but it partially goes with what I'm about to say. The rest of those, barring Spellbook, are just a means to dealing more damage. It's like saying that CDR does not do damage. It doesn't directly, but it facilitates damage. Spellbook is on both sides of this. It can be used offensively, defensively, or for utility strictly.
Ackelope (NA)
: > As opposed to literally ANY offensive keystone, which will be more like a 30-50% damage increase. I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying overall in your post, but this specific point has gotta be WAY off target. The runes which consistently deal the most damage on champions that are focused on dealing damage, I'd say that's gonna be arcane comet most of the time, no way it ever passes around a 10-12% damage increase, and that's being quite generous. It's harder to estimate the damage increase with a rune like conqueror, since the game doesn't show you much you've gotten out of the bonus adaptive stats from it, but I'd say it comes closest to being the contender that will have the highest damage increase, and I doubt it even reaches 30-50%, there's no way in hell the other keystone runes do either. If we had a better way to quantify it, I'd love to check the damage increase overall for conqueror users, but as it is, go play a game as a mage and after the game, calculate your damage done with and without the keystone you took, and find me a value that even begins to approach the 30-50% you mentioned here. I'm not saying it's impossible, and I could totally be wrong, but all of the games I've checked in my own match history and a friend's have stayed well away from even the 30% mark.
I suppose the way I worded that was very unclear. At the time of making the statement, I was thinking specifically about Electrocute and its 40% AD ratio. Players who trade around it will get a damage increase roughly equivalent to 50% of their AD, but not a 40-50% increase in damage overall. What I should have said is it's like getting another ability with a 30-50% ratio.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hot LeBlanc Yuri,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AmAxq0Aq,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-09T09:44:20.728+0000) > > Why do tank/sustain runes also give damage? That wasn't the question tho. They asked why runes have any damage at all. You can't expect to ask a dumbass question and expect me te Respond as if you asked me a real question.
Are you being deliberately obtuse, or are you honestly incapable of understanding that OP was almost certainly saying not EVERY rune needs damage and they don't need as much damage as they have? If you had read the body of their post you would see that this was, indeed, their stance. Instead, you read only the title and decided to make sarcastic remarks based upon only that. Grow up.
Nadeokí (EUW)
: What about the current inspiration tree, I think clepto and spellbook are interesting choices
Spellbook, I agree...but what is interesting about hitting someone and getting RNG rewards?
Nadeokí (EUW)
: The problem is that you ask that question with negative preset. Let me ask you this, why not? Some champions scale too hard into lategame so you take specific runes for counterplay (Gathering storm) Certain Adc champions have a passive that increases damage over time the more you attack which greatly synergizes with other runes (PTA on Tristana) I don't really see a problem with that. I wasn't around when it was "different" or "better" like you try to state but can you give some valid reasoning, an example maybe of a rune that is beyond broken and thus needs a nerf (just because of damage stats)?
Google some of the old Masteries (like S2, 3, 4) and look at the difference in power between those and current day Runes Reforged. The difference is staggering. In S2 offense tree, for example...the FINAL (most powerful in most cases) mastery gave Effects Increases damage dealt against targets below 20/35/50% health by 5%. As opposed to literally ANY offensive keystone, which will be more like a 30-50% damage increase. This has contributed significantly to the rise in power across the board, and reduced TTKs in this game. There are definitely other factors, like bigger and better items, increased penetration options, lowered defenses, etc. etc. But runes reforged is, by far and away, the biggest differential between then and now.
: They claimed the change was because seeing your physical rank was causing anxiety and felt grindy. What exactly does having to reach promos and WIN 2/3 or 3/5 of your next games do? Cause anxiety after a grind. They changed to a league system to let players feel good about achieving something they don’t deserve. Then add promotion helpers and demotion prevention to keep said players happy. Regardless of how negatively it impacts quality of games when someone who clearly doesn’t deserve to have a rank HAS the rank and gives up because they know they won’t lose their rank. I will never understand that argument being present in a **COMPETITIVE** game mode.
And if you factor in the win that takes you to your promos, you actually need to win 3/4 or 4/6 to promote.
: honestly I've wondered this for a long time. This is true for all league based games and I've never understood the rationale for it. The worst thing that could happen that it ends up being wrong for a little while.
The touted reason for why RIOT changed this (back in S3, I think? Maybe S4) was that it felt really bad to go on a losing streak and have your MMR just plummet along with your ranking. So, they took measures to prevent people from falling too far too fast. Whether that's good or bad is another thing entirely. That was their reasoning, if memory serves.
SirHydro (NA)
: So you wouldn't consider anything S I N C E 2014 ( since meaning 2014- current year) to be "in recent years?" Really? Are you actually serious? 2014-2019 isn't recent? Wow. Okay.
I was thinking you were going the other way with that statement. As in, it has been since 2014 that RIOT has addressed problems. Because you clearly seem to mean to take it the other way, then I disagree with your statement. They have a bad habit of dancing around problems, rather than attempting to solve them. Maybe provide a little more context to your initial statement in the future, instead of being smug and belligerent when it is misunderstood, yeah?
: > [{quoted}](name=ArtumisPrime,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Yj71mqNh,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-05-07T00:14:44.771+0000) > > I'm fairly certain (but not 100% certain) that people were screaming from the rooftops how this item was going to break champions like Jax. RIOT could have tested this theory very easily, before launching the item. These complaints, however, fell on deaf ears. Again. > > You're right. It might be a simple mistake, but it's the mindset behind it that irritates me to no end. With players complaining about damage, a defensive hybrid item would have been awesome. Instead, RIOT does RIOT things and guts/removes the defensive portion of it....while simultaneously increasing its offensive power. Like....why?! Well you've gotta remember that the passive actually already existed. It only became a problem when the stat line was changed to make it more effective for non-ADC's.
And how could they not see that it would be a problem with better stats for bruisers...when shit like RENEKTON was already building the mana/crit version of it?
: > [{quoted}](name=ArtumisPrime,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Yj71mqNh,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-05-06T01:37:59.972+0000) > > It drives me insane that they chose to take a viable, strong (maybe even a bit too strong) defensive/offensive hybrid, and turned it into this abomination. > > This design/balance team do this shit all the time, and the mentality that brought us this item, as opposed to the defensive version, is the reason we are currently are, and have been for 2 years now, sitting in this absurd burst meta. To their credit, it's an incredibly simple mistake to have made. I'm sure in their minds they thought it'd be good to expand the usability of the Essence Flare passive to non-mana champions (and ones with low costs) and champions that aren't ADC's. They just didn't have the forethought to realize it would be so powerful on the different set of champs.
I'm fairly certain (but not 100% certain) that people were screaming from the rooftops how this item was going to break champions like Jax. RIOT could have tested this theory very easily, before launching the item. These complaints, however, fell on deaf ears. Again. You're right. It might be a simple mistake, but it's the mindset behind it that irritates me to no end. With players complaining about damage, a defensive hybrid item would have been awesome. Instead, RIOT does RIOT things and guts/removes the defensive portion of it....while simultaneously increasing its offensive power. Like....why?!
: I spent quiet a lot of money on this game. Afking = punishable even though its completely bullshit for a punishment. Not looking to get punished for being kidnapped. Riot's the gun to your head - Ban. The players are your kidnappers - Won't FF when they should be. 5-15 minutes you KNOW who won. There is NO comeback in this game anylonger in low elo.
Y'know what. You win. I give up. This is a stupid thing to be arguing, and I concede.
: https://www.merriam-webster.com/legal/kidnapping "act or instance or the crime of seizing, confining, inveigling, abducting, or carrying away a person by force" It's kidnapping.
There is no gun to your head. You aren't going to go to prison for leaving. You are not FORCED--against your will--to stay in that game. You are choosing to, in order to avoid the consequences. Saying that this is kidnapping is like saying that a parent putting their child in timeout is also a kidnapping. Ridiculous.
: Caps should be caps.
> On that note, why did we not get the actual Spear of Shojin? That'd be a perfectly fine effect. It drives me insane that they chose to take a viable, strong (maybe even a bit too strong) defensive/offensive hybrid, and turned it into this abomination. This design/balance team do this shit all the time, and the mentality that brought us this item, as opposed to the defensive version, is the reason we are currently are, and have been for 2 years now, sitting in this absurd burst meta.
: Yea they encourage kidnapping, aka not being able to get out at 15 minutes.
Whereas I agree that the current state of the game should allow for an earlier surrender option your comparing it to kidnapping is absolutely ridiculous.
Dahaaka (EUW)
: Ye, that is sure a problem, most of trolls will abuse it, but its not an unsolvable problem. Just make limits: max 1 or 2 dodges a day it would be healthy for the game, Imagine a situation(happened to me b4) u r going to play rank, u need win to get promos but getting autofilled on a role u never play, no one wants to swap with u, so u are doomed to lose ur lane/role, also u have already dodges 2 games today, so after 5-15 min i think its 30 min. What would u choose in that situation?
Me personally? I'd bite the bullet and play it out. If it's jungle I'll probably lose. Then again, I'm not the type of person to dodge ARAM for getting a trash champ with no rerolls either.
: Add a dodge button during champion select
I don't think RIOT wants to encourage dodging. Sure, it could be argued that the queue penalty is punishment enough, but having the button would still increase the number of dodgers. IMO, that's not a good thing.
: >In S2/3/4 tanks were popular top and jungle, but didn't do immense damage. not fully correct, Tanks did do quite noticeable damage - to **SQUISHY** targets. However, their damage vs other tanky dudes was rather low so they lost on the long run to bruisers in a 1v1 and had 'wet noodle fights' against each other, but if they got to a squishy they were a real threat(though they still wouldn't outright burst them) We need to get back to tankiness beeing meaningfull and tanks doing less vs tanky champs while staying more or less where they are vs squishys, so less %hp damage and more flat values.
> not fully correct, Tanks did do quite noticeable damage - to SQUISHY targets This. Is. Wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYp_P1JHcew Look at these highlights (commentary sucks honestly) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C_kI4WbxlQ Squishies did damage to squishies. Bruisers did damage to squishies. Tanks. Did. NOT. I would go so far as to say that current tanks do damage comparable to that an even (not super fed/ahead) squishy/bruiser used to do to squishies.
: Granted but the size of his ult is only a little less than blitzcrank, and with his movement speed and multiple slows, wouldn't be difficult to keep it in range of an enemy. His Q was a boomerang that slowed both ways, combined with his dash he could guarantee the second hit if the first connected. Most mages are around the 60~75% ap ratio range for basic abilities. Funny you mention that, because that's where I went first lol. I went through the actual patch notes via cross-referencing to make sure I was pulling accurate data.
Yeah, I'll give you that it has always been totally possible to hit the damage portion of Ekko's ult. It has never really been terribly difficult. It's just situational. A lot of the time you need to use it to escape, or heal, or dodge a gank or something. Whereas with LB, the overwhelming majority of the time, her entire kit is used to deal damage. His Q only slows outwards. Has always been that way. As for the last bit, that's fair enough. Just wanted to make sure you weren't going back through and hitting each and every official patch note page. That would be maddening. lol
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ArtumisPrime

Level 61 (OCE)
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