: Presence in pro play indicates viability in meta and Trynd quite frankly is viable in solo q and is not over powered by any standard. Critical chance as a whole is a rng mechanic, whining about the "rng" crit passive when nearly every adc builds IE and crit items, drakes are rng (inferno, ocean, mountain, cloud) is illogical. Should we remove crit as a whole because a a Tristana with 25% crit chance may 4 tap a vayne with crits in laning phase? Trynds ultimate mechanic is still being over simplified by you. When you pop ultimate as Tryndamere you have to decide who you go in on, which abilities are up, sums, cc, account for incoming skill shots. Then its all about dancing around as you jump your target, after you have to decide whether you attempt to go for multiple kills, die because of a misplay, or attempt to stay alive. "lane completely determined by RNG" - absolutely garbage and untrue, and if such is true than same can be said to all adc's after they build one crit item, Trynd has abilities and apparently you are not aware of them and how they work "Ultimate ability that removes the vast majority of decision making from the champion" - This is perhaps the most ignorant statement as the ultimate is a complex, unique, one a kind and best feature of the champion "Trynd's kit removes agency from both players." - Literally how? You are making a random claim with no example or evidence, big words no facts Claiming that a champion is brainless and is all RNG was your first mistake and unfortunately you have a incredible superiority complex that leads you to believe you think in a higher realm than me and are so much wiser. You were blatantly wrong and exaggerating and instead of sucking up to it you instead try to deflect it.
You misunderstand, Trynd literally bets THE WHOLE ENTIRETY OF CONTROL OF THE REST OF LANE PHASE WITH LEVEL 1 AND 2 CHEESE. There is no other champion that does this because no other champion has innate access to crit chance in that way. The only one exaggerating here is you. Every champion considers positioning, cooldowns, cc, incoming skillshots, target selection. THAT IS NOT UNIQUE TO TRYNDAMERE. Tryndamere's ultimate is literally a statcheck - a button that forces either a free win for trynd, or does nothing because he is kited/hard ccd. I'm done debating this with you - I made it perfectly clear in my last reply, you are biased. Your ego is so insufferably obnoxious that you have deluded yourself into believing that tryndamere is healthy and good for the game in his current state simply because of his absence in professional play - an idiotic and desperate attempt to justify a fallacy. When you present me with legitimate support of tryndamere's kit, and not some half-baked excuses, statistics, or basic game fundamentals found in almost every champion but presented as unique to tryndamere, I may then consider actual discussion. Until such time, perhaps youd be best to play other champions so you can actually understand just how what you claim and what is are so astonishingly different.
: So in other words extremely subjective and dependent on the interpretation of the interpreter. Can be whatever I want if I throw in some words that sound unbalanced. 1. Lane COMPLETELY rng is not only complete bullshit but a severe exaggeration of his passive mechanic 2. Ultimate ability has a ridiculous amount of decision making and you are over simplifying it for convenience and due to your lack of understanding pertaining to the champion and game play, you likely think Trynd just spins in ults and kill -> die every time right? Lastly, this is a invalid complaint on the board and if Trynd is to get any rework it should only be a mini rework to give him a more packed kit like other meta champions which is quite frankly going to make him actually powerful and useful in this meta. Champ has nearly never been seen in pro play, last time was season (3). Only sort of okay in solo q yet we have people on the forums still complaining about balance and brainless kit.
Since when is a champion's presence in pro play any indication of balance? Trynd's kit removes agency from both players. Trynd's damage comes from crits (rng), and his ultimate forces a playstyle like what you have described, either go in ult and kill, or go in dont kill die. Tryndamere is just packed with mechanics based around a style of game that Riot has moved away from. He is simply a relic of what league used to be, and as such, is a mismatch between the majority of the rest of the roster. Frankly at this point, I think you are just over emphasising the very little skill expression the champion has - makes me suspect you're likely quite biased. What you either fail to understand, or are too biased to realise, is that being statistically balanced (which is what you are referring to - the raw numbers alone) does not necessarily absolutely correlate to actually being healthy for the game.
: Define toxic, you saying a champ is toxic without defining what you think is toxic design is stupid in itself. What exactly defines toxic? Only what you don't like?
The lack of agency on either player - lane completely determined by RNG Ultimate ability that removes the vast majority of decision making from the champion You'd think with actual game knowledge and a little inferencing, you'd pick up on this. A lot of complaints on the boards aren't particularly valid. Trynd being a garbage design is NOT one of them.
: Remember when AP Ezreal's ult did more damage than AD Ez??
Because it hard it's damage reduction changed. That's it, AP ez stll deals more ult dmg, just now Ezreal doesnt have to stack 2k AP for his ult to deal the same dmg after passing through 6 minions.
FSRER (EUNE)
: Same goes for damned hecarim who you will also cc but his E will go out anyways.
you can flash this perfectly and still get hit - pisses me off.
l MrD l (NA)
: this is actually a good change ... the constant mana restoration in conjunction with teh shield and E made her sustain too strong and the mana to constantly poke with Q meant shes just too strong vs enchanter supports.. with the removal of mana restoration it means the spamming of Q wont happen so often anymore and sustain is limited... It looks like the aim could be to move away from Q max first in favour of E max weakening yuumis poke but i could be wrong and Q max still good but it just means they cant forever spam it ... Lets not forget the champ is still weak against all ins and that yuumi still needs to leave to make effective use of the shield which is still really powerful to not get
of course the boards would downvote this....
Weemwomp (NA)
: But your statement does not address the issue I raised there and doesn't address my post. It's equally as idiotic and proves my point. The dashes of all champions, by the way, can be used defensively and can generally be spammed because they have low cooldowns (Yasuo) or resets (Irelia). Malzahar's passive provides nowhere near the safety net that having a better version of flash does. When you write "Irelia and Yasuo can only dash towrads enemies," you mean they have enemy targeted dashes. They can go away from me in lane. They can dodge my Q and then straight back into me if they want to. Dashes are damn busted, but Riot just keeps adding them in.
Then get good. There are at most 7 minions plus yourself either champion can dash to. Irelia REQUIRES you to be marked, otherwise to reset her SINGLE DASH, it must kill the target (or be cast and in motion as the target dies). Right there that is 8 dashes maximum assuming PERFECT conditions. Yasuo is the same in that his has a cooldown he cannot recast on the same target for TEN WHOLE SECONDS UNTIL LEVEL 8. Fact is, neither of these champions can engage on you first between your shield, the ult, and the silence. If you screw up and whiff the ability because youre being greedy, that's your own damn fault. People dont pick malzahar to dominate lane (frankly they dont deserve to), they pick malzahar to stifle the other laner. I'm sorry but if being passive is a problem for you, play a different champion. I don't see why Malz needs excessive buffs or Irelia and Yasuo excessive nerfs to accommodate your lazy entitlement.
Weemwomp (NA)
: _**glares at total anti-"I-severely-fucked-up-and/or-don't-have-to-care-about-my-positioning" dashes**_ Dashes made the new Malz passive necessary.
That is such an idiotic statement. High mobility champions are typically restricted in some way (Irelia and Yasuo can only dash towards enemies, Zed and LeBlanc only between their marked locations, Talon only on terrain). Almost every free movement dash is short range.
Weemwomp (NA)
: Make Malzahar Q Function like Irelia E
#***glares at total anti-"I-severely-fucked-up-and/or-don't-have-to-care-about-my-positioning" passive***
TheGrot (NA)
: 20/20 Hindsight on Game Balance
Unlikely, the faster pace forces pro players to play more risk heavy, which usually results in more fighting and a flashier viewing experience. It's the same reason you see teams like G2 and IG succeed so easily - they are not just ready to make the risks, they thrive in that kind of environment. You then have teams like SKT who are masters of damage control struggling so heavily because of these colossal early game leads that can potentially spring up out of next to nothing - tiny, minuscule differences quickly cascade into insurmountable advantages. All this serves the viewership of pro play, which in turn equals more cash.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: "easy to gank for him" --> coordination
There's not much to coordinate when the fucker has a point and click root. If you screw that up as a jungler it has nothing to do with coordination.
Esdese (EUW)
: Actually, you are making no damn sense behind all those words. You brought accountability to this subject, god knows why - Has jackshit to do with the overall topic, specially when you have lack of proof of what the comment really meant. What makes you think he did not read it simply because he felt like he was too important? You have no argument here and I am going to be honest. Even I opened this thread and jumped straight into the changes because that's what THE FUCKING TITTLE CALLS IT FOR. I don't give a shit about whether or not, in your eyes, it was inherently meant as laziness or ignorance. And it's all because you have no proof of his intentions. You can't have, and thus, you should not answer passive-aggressively, especially when you are a design director. If the higher ladder already shows this kind of disrespect towards a simpe question, I don't think anyone below it will be any better. You also mentioned "spoonfeeding" here. You see, it's his job to help the playerbase, not to reply to it with: "It's your problem". I understand it might sound repetitive in his eyes, but there is no need to act like this. I think anyone in his position would feel proud enough for helping anyone (whether it was genuine or not), and under whatever circumstances. Plus, you were essentially saying if we reached out to Riot support to make a question about ratios or anything particular about any ability of a champion, we would be thinking we are too important because we did not remember to check out league of legends wiki (I am meaning this on the side of newer players). If you also ask anyone in game, if X ability causes Y effect, you are considering yourself above others too, either because you haven't tested it yet, or because you did not read the tool-tip carefully enough. Really, you make no sense. I don't see the fact of not reading this entire post as a matter of superiority. Mostly because about 10-20% of these posts are the same (the introduction in specific). But why am I even trying ... You are literally defending a passive-aggressive attitude, particularly from some who's supposed to be an example to the entire community. I wouldn't mind helping someone, especially if that was my job (which is everyone's, according to The Summoner Code) - I just don't see a reason for him to add that second line, a simple quote would have sufficed.
Because it all shows a clear lack of taking accountability for your own learning. This is like skipping the terms and conditions, hitting accept, then crying when you get bent over for it. At best you can call it being foolishly risky, but all it is is laziness. If you can't be bothered to read the whole thing before commenting about it, then don't be surprised when you are called out for it. Who are you to demand Riot be at your beck and call because you couldn't be bothered? Title be damned, YOU MADE THE CONSCIOUS DECISION TO IGNORE IMPORTANT CONTEXT. Now as for you last pathetic excuse of an argument, RIOT SUPPORT IS THE MEDIUM FOR THAT KIND OF QUESTION, NOT THE COMMENTS OF A DEV DISCUSSION. I'll tell you a secret; the "customer is always right" was sales talk BS to sucker idiots into buying crap they don't need. I think you'll find Meddler's job is head of game design, not support team. The fact is, Meddler doesn't think he's too important, YOU think that YOU are.
Hatiru (EUW)
: If you're the seller and you come with "it says right there" youre not professional. You have no idea who the person is, if you can't properly tell them then don't.
Then maybe I'm just a sociopath, because I don't understand how simply being in a customer-business relationship mandates talking to people like children
O73O (EUNE)
: ***
The points are not mutually exclusive. There is a gross expectation that simply by being a consumer/customer it means you can get away with borderline whatever you damn well please. It all comes from a total lack of accountability. Simply ignoring the person is admittedly a less aggravating way of doing it, but I struggle to sympathise when it's all in response to such a base level of ignorance.
Hatiru (EUW)
: I get you're a game designer but that doesn't mean you should behave in a passive agressive way to that guy. This is exactly what's wrong with Riot Games. No way this kind of behaviour against customers in real life would be accepted. You would be called to your boss and asked why you're acting like a child and are disrespecting the customer. Either you don't reply to it because they'll find out anyway about the changes or you post it without the "Second sentence above" part. I wonder even more now how f*cked up Riot actually is. Can't wait to be downvoted or deleted.
Nope. Take accountability for yourself. The information WAS already posted there. If someone thinks they are too important to read it and expects a Rioter to sit around spoonfeeding them, that's their problem - not Riot's
: > [{quoted}](name=HopeStartsWithU,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zKRh0mwK,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-05-04T16:22:24.584+0000) > > Everyone here saying "good analysis" what not while I am cringing on that "proof." > > I looked up some games on op.gg and the majority of your games are even. Which means that one guy "snowballing" is actually one person doing something on the map. Jarvan for example going 19/2 while his midlaner had 18 assists and you had 10 deaths as Ahri. On top of that, you guys had a Renekton going 15/6 while both bots played evenly. > > In your second game your entire team inted while the entire enemy team was "snowballing." I don't have to add anything to it. You all had insane amounts of deaths. Heca with his 15 kills had more than his mates yet Urgot went 7/0, Fiddle 7/0 and Sivir 4/1. > > The snowballing champs are usually easy to shutdown (Yasuo, Ezreal, Nocturne, Kaisa are obviously harder to catch). Then again when I look at the scores of the team losing to those snowballers you can clearly see that the team losing is always dying too much. Something that is pretty common in low elo. > > Snowballing was/is/will always be present like that, **_especially_** in low elo. You won't see that happening in higher elos. The way it is is fine because **If I am fed I want to carry the game. I don't want to be dependent on one person who ints while 4 others try their best.** I mentioned this to someone else already but the last few games I played were from coming home after being out at the bar. I dont go 1-11 every single game lol.
Probably not something to include in data you intend to be taken seriously then...
: Before you start moaning about uselessness and obnoxious, consider being confident, happy and alpha. Trust me, it's way better ;) Who's pointing and laughing? I hope you don't assume that type of stuff but then again, I don't know what type of person you're used to surrounding yourself with but oookay. I did mention that he is not skillcapped and his peers aren't , but I took it a step further and made the case that he can't be. And honestly, he's low rated enough that he could still make dramatic, "night and day" improvement with simple fixes, as you get higher, it gets way harder. Not unlike losing weight. Going from 160 lbs to 150 might be easy but then going from 130 to 120 might be hard, because you have less flab to lose and have to actually tone up so on and so forth. Air of superiority? Don't flinch so hard, I am a gentleman. Mind you, I didn't point all of that out to embarass / humiliate you, so don't grovel for forgiveness or anything after, we're all friends here... As for telling how to do better, I'm not his coach, lmao. I'm just pointing him in the right direction and if he wanted further conversation he would have to seek that out but really? no need. I gave him the keywords and google could show him many hundreds of good resources explaining these GENERIC, FUNDAMENTAL and LOW HANGING Fruits. Honestly, the every day player doesn't need guidance anymore. League isn't such a new game, and these paths have already been trailblazed and mapped out. Now instead of telling me how dickish and smart and unreachable I am, why not calm down and have peace? You might be projecting expectations or whatever but if it makes you moan then you should reel yourself in, put your feet under you and stand up straight, I mean, what're you doing man? lol
Condescension does not equate to confidence. Likewise saying you are a happy and alpha person does not make what you say okay at all. "I spectated one of your games and you have bigger problems than anything having to do with matchmaking" You haven't provided anything. All you did was say: "You bad". "Generic, fundamental, low hanging fruits" - so tell me what they are. Go on. You claim to know what they are, and you've now spent much more time and effort making excuses than were you to just state them from the beginning so say so. Tell us what these basic problems are so we can all understand where the issues lie, and how to proceed from there. You can't use the excuse that you aren't his coach because you started this whole mess. No one cared about whether or not there were mistakes until you rudely butted in. Coaches be damned - you are still responsible. You have this strange disconnect between what you have said and either what you meant to say, or what you think you said. Regardless, you have not been anywhere close to as helpful as you seem to believe, and you have STILL not actually clarified what the problems you have identified are. Right now, you are doing the equivalent of pointing at the sky and shouting "WOW GUYS, THERE'S SOMETHING OUT THERE!". After people then ask: "What is out there, what did you see?" You then respond with: "ITS OBVIOUS, I DONT NEED TO SAY IT LOL". ^ Did you see clouds? The sun? A UFO? Another planet? Superman? _The point is we have no way of knowing because you will not tell us_ The more you do it, the more I just suspect you actually don't know what you're talking about at all. The burden of proof is on you, not us. Either you know what you are talking about and have no problem discussing it, or you don't have anything concrete enough that will get ripped to shreds so quickly that you are scared to put a limiter on yourself. Don't start something if you aren't prepared to see it through. Don't say something so baseless and then pressure other people to do your diligence for you.
: If someone tried passive aggression It went over my head. I don't believe in listing instances where a player's damage foresight failed them, listing instances where someone should have taken a different path, played around a different power spike or selected a different target so on or so forth. these "problems" or "Questions" or "Decisions" or whatever you want to call them are derived, answered through a player's own understanding + their mechanics on a game by game basis. Nobody learns from a "know it all" and if he, or you, or anyone wants to learn how to navigate those mazes that is far beyond the scope of my answer here and they should *Definitely* hire me or someone else as a coach, obviously. Instead of even offering that, I just threw out some commonly used terms and suggested some of his more glaring weaknesses and if he has any ambition and discipline at all he can follow that light and either seek out *From MANY resources* the answers and tools and grovel / work for improvement like every other player. What you don't seem to understand is that he didn't ask for improvement, he came here to whine about elo hell and how "rito matchmaking much busted" Glad to sort you out :)
See, that information is totally useless. There is a given that he hasn't played perfectly - how could he? All you've done is obnoxiously stated common knowledge with an air of superiority, then used the fact that you did so as an excuse as to why you do not have to justify having done it. If all you can do is point and laugh, then you aren't as smart as you clearly seem to think you are. No one asked for you to tell him he needs to improve - it wasn't the topic of conversation - but you come in with unsolicited observations. You make claim to be a coach, but you most certainly are not ready for it. People don't improve from being told they are bad, they improve by being taught how to understand how to do better - you clearly do not understand this concept. Frankly, you are acting like a base coward - hiding behind the anonymity of the internet, and putting your expectations on someone unasked for, then offering no assistance for it. That is not helping people, it's just being a dick. Until you've pointed out a legitimate problem, all you've done is waltzed in, loudly shouted "I AM THE SMARTS", and wandered off. It's pretentious to an asinine degree.
Saianna (EUNE)
: > If he uses it aggressively he cant use it to escape ganks. Well sure, but unlike others Zed has few ways to escape, including W. He's still alot more slippery than most of mid mages. Ganking zed is possible but for that you need instant semi-long+ CC/suppression combined with all the burst you can dish out from 2 champions to maybe kill him. You miss on the part where for skilled zed it takes about a second to R-W-Q-E and ignite you, which is instant death pretty much. If you lack the CC, or you miss it. You are dead. Under your turret. And he can tank 3-4 shots and still live. Rushing seeker is both good and bad suggestion. Yes, you will definitely take less damage from Zed. But you will have huge mana issues, which means you won't be able to push waves, nor actually farm. Many ppl forget mages, without abilities, can't finish of CS with turrets help. Not to mention while the wave is under your turret Zeds actively still harrassing you or he's ganking another lane. Even with lost tome your mana issues are only delayed by few waves, cause getting dry on a mage is inevitable.
What were you doing for 6 whole minutes where he got to level 6 for free? If you are standing on train tracks, and the train thats coming in 20 minutes squashes you, that's still your fault for not moving.
: No, matchmaking is fine and you are a volatile cheese player who will struggle to climb before being hardstuck in the diamond mines of moria. I spectated one of your games and you have bigger problems than anything having to do with matchmaking, address those before you grasp at straws...
Maybe rather than super passive-aggression, point out what he's done wrong? There is a tendency among the Boards, Reddit, etc to throw endless amounts of results-based analysis with total disregard for in-the-moment context. Pointing out the issues is a lot more helpful to everyone than just saying there are mysterious issues that exist in some nether-realm ether.
Velasan (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DrMulli,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pIEMPjJu,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-04-25T19:02:53.471+0000) > > No matter what people think, this is a team game, > there is a way higher chance of there being 1 player that can lose you the game > than win you the game. Totally agree. It's just that a few seasons ago people didn't die so much in the first 5 minutes of the game, and it used to be 3 feeders lost you the game, maybe 2 if they were feeding really badly. Now one person screws up and you can't contest an objective, and they just use the objective to end the game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Sandsexual,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qO7Bmjii,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2019-04-25T12:08:37.169+0000) > > why is yasuo banned when lux isnt even played mid anymore > > looking for counterplay isn't the point of this post. Seeing as how everyone playing league has had a chance to fight him because of his high playrate, everyone already knows how to play against him. It's just that he feels terrible to play against because of his kit, and that's not the same thing as being overpowered. Yasuo doesn't need any nerfs, getting nerfs wont do anything because he'll still get the same banrate. The problem is in his kit, he needs a mini rework. Exactly this. People saw the title and instantly assumed I was going to complain about him being OP before even reading the post. So many people hate playing against Yasuo, they'd rather ban him and play against an OP champ.
There is some validity in the argument though. I personally think NeoAkali was more or less fine on release (at the least in terms of her kit mechanics - perhaps the numbers needed adjusting, but that's minimal work in the end). The problem with NeoAkali is she broke traditional counterplay trends, and instead had new means of counterplay. This became a huge problem for her because rather than learn/adapt, people just banned her and whined she was OP/broken. ___________ This isn't to say that everything you say about Yasuo and his banrate is now invalidated, but mass banning of a champion creates an environment where the people who ban it are far less equipped to deal with it because of such infrequent exposure. The little they do have they then disregard as the champion being busted. I'll readily agree Yasuo can be obnoxious, but 9/10 times, I've found this is a player being all show with no thought, and they'll typically put themselves in idiot positions because of it. At the end of the day - at least for me - Yasuo has a degree of avoidability. I'd sooner call champions like Jax and Volibear OP than Yasuo.
Hayoi (NA)
: I really hate Kayle's new gameplay design
Azir, Kog Maw, Jinx, Cassio, and Yi all do the same thing. You have 11 levels worth of time to either shit on her, or impact the map while shes useless. That's the way late-scaling champions work. It's all about good play and decision making. If you simply sit in lane playing farmville, yeah, she will probably rip you a new one.
: reported for harassment. I explained it nicely. I asked not so nicely that you take a hint. Now you're just trying to be a dick.
I defended myself, you decided it was harassment. If anything you harassed me first, calling me a butthurt toxic Akali main, and you didn't even have the base decency to tell me why you think I am wrong. This is the entire problem. You just resort to the child tactic of fingers-in-your-ears "la-la-la-cant-hear-youuuuuu". If you aren't interested in discussing on the DISCUSSION boards, why are you here? Rather than get offended and whine even more, how about you actually treat everyone else maturely. There's a reason why you are so upset with this, and it's not my fault.
: ok, one more time for the people who don't understand what the word "opinion" means............. I have a personal bias, and I fully understand and admit that personal bias. I do NOT need a toxic, butthurt akali main telling me why everything is fine, because that is not the goddamn point of a personal opinion and bias. Someone asked WHY people hate certain champions. I gave my opinionated answer. Take your fucking harassment elsewhere.
Thats not an opinion, thats laziness. Take responsibility for your own actions. No one forces you to engage with her when she drops shroud, but you do because you simply either cannot be bothered to play around it, or just don't care. The ability gives arguably the largest abuse window to the opponent in the game, all you have to do is have the patience and self-discipline to ignore her for 6 seconds. If you think that is unfair, that is you making an excuse for your own laziness, not a personal opinion. You also completely ignored the other parts of OP's question - how would they be made better/fixed, and/or what could be done to bring other classes/champions closer to their level - of course people are going to challenge the logic of your excuses; there was an assumption that this, while taking into account frustration etc, was ultimately a discussion about WHICH CHAMPIONS NEEDED CHANGING (if any). Lastly, I'm not an Akali main, I'm an Azir main, but stepping back and WATCHING the game instead of PLAYING it has made a huge difference for me in seeing what is actually busted and what isn't. The constant circlejerk around champions like Akali who are perfectly fair and reasonable, are ones that are perpetuated by people like you, who try to convince everyone that their laziness is a legitimate opinion. I gave you two chances to realise this - you ignored me, and then berated me about how I'm ignoring your opinion. That right there just proves it's not an opinion - you are not interested in learning anything different. You have arbitrarily decided you don't like Akali, and falsified reasoning for it. You then masquerade your laziness as your opinion. Just because you say it is your opinion, doesn't obligatorily mean it is correct or valid. You can ignore me again if you like, but hopefully you will at least go away from this and think twice about how quickly you jump to a conclusion about something without forethought, and then how stubbornly you will cling to it afterwards.
: You seem to be missing my point. If she drops shroud in the middle of the wave, she may as well be a Yasuo using Wind Wall when it comes to CS - I either miss my cs and fall behind gradually, or I attempt to claim my CS and lose 60% of my hp to an enemy I can barely hit. And this is opinion anyway...
Idk, I personally am completely fine with her wasting her only defensive tool to zone me for a wave of cs I probably won't miss a lot of, leaving her completely open to whatever I want to do for the next 20 seconds, but yeah I guess for 6 seconds it can be the worlds smallest frustration... I guess I see your point
: My personal hate is more towards certain ones than others, and its not really for a generalized reason. {{champion:84}} Literally cannot target her because of her new W. If I'm not playing an AoE laner, I autolose because I can't see her until she explodes me, then she ducks back into the smoke and I can't target her again. If I *am* playing an AoE laner, I have a very narrow window between all her mobility to land my AoE...on a target I can't see...who's going to use her mobility the *millisecond* I start a casting animation. (ok, *millisecond* is exaggerating, but she's very frustrating to hit with anything, and the only way to really beat her is to farm war her and hope she's greedy enough to dive at you out of her zone so you can have a ghost of a chance to hit her) --- {{champion:39}} is a really personal bias, because of all the jumps and a distinct lack of Morello nerfs. (if that shows my age in this game. xD) I'm starting to get decent at her, so I'm beginning to understand exactly how she can jump 20 times in 2 seconds (how do these people still have a functioning Q key? Lbs) but I still have no idea how they do this so acutely without some sort of third party macro that auto-procs low hp minions and marks with her Q, because the inhuman reactions are insane. --- {{champion:141}} is just overtuned, especially in blue form. By the time I see that little mark that shows he's gonna come out of the wall, I'm already dead. Add to that the part that he can walk through walls with bonus MS to begin with (meaning some ridiculous ganks from angles you rarely have wards for) and he pretty much just ends you before you even knew he was in your lane at all. I can *sometimes* handle red Kayn but blue kayn pretty much auto-cucks anyone with less than 4k hp. --- {{champion:555}} is more just super annoying than anything...but the main complaint I have actually isn't his ult like most people. He regens more from his gray health than Kench - the proprietor of gray health - and Kench is a tank. All that regen means it's ridiculously hard to poke him out of lane, which is sad, because the usual response to kill lane supports is to do just that - poke them out until they can't commit. --- {{champion:92}} & {{champion:157}} I'll throw in the same segment because it's about the same difference: you can't kite them, you can't catch them, and you can't outdamage them once they hit 6. I'll also add that these two champions in particular...idk what it is, whether it's how tryhard they are, or how competitive they are (no, those are not the same thing) but every time I see a Riven or Yasuo player - doesn't matter what team, doesn't matter how good or bad - they are **ALL** ***VEHEMENTLY TOXIC*** to **EVERYONE** in the game.
FSRER (EUNE)
: THE GAME IS NOT ONLY ABOUT CHINA! There are many, many other servers and players to care for. If riot only cares about china then how about fucking deleting the other servers? If they don't do that it means that WE AS PLAYERS HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY OUR OPINION, CHINESE OR NOT AND SINCE WE HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT RIOT HAS STOPPED CARING ABOUT US THEN WE HAVE TO BE RIGHT, don't we?
Its not entirely about China, no. But you don't then get to stand there and say Riot should immediately cater to your specific tastes, that is not how it works. Fact is you will have to accept that there is no correct decision for riot because they have a very divisive GLOBAL playerbase. Or to put it much more simply - learn how to stop being so selfish.
FSRER (EUNE)
: Riot does not understand their game anymore
This has been repeated over and over by Riot, and you refuse to listen. You are not the only players of LoL this company has to cater for. As far as China is concerned, the game state is fantastic, people like Blaustoise and Repertoir have provided statistics and SOLID AND LEGITIMATE reasoning why they havent nerfed "X-Champion-The-Boards-Can't-Be-Assed-To-Get-Gud-For". By all means disagree with it, but just because Riot doesn't cater to your every impulsive whim, does not mean they are incompetent, or the game is obligatorily awful. This is all entirely subjective on every level, and relative to the person making the argument, so get off your high horse.
Netorare (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Divewing,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E23tE0Ex,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-31T00:21:11.304+0000) > > IT HAS A 20 SECOND COOLDOWN Ah yes, the usual it has a long cooldown... Akali&yasuo defensive abilities will always be broken no matter the cooldown...
I'm sorry, but take responsibility. How long are we going to keep whining about champion abilities with long cooldowns that DO NOT FORCE YOU TO ENGAGE WITH THE CHAMPION. People don't hate Akali shroud for it's length, or it's "lack of counterplay". They hate it because it forces them to change how they approach her. God forbid a champion was allowed an ability to give her a fixed moment of power. No, it's not enough. Cooldown could be 2 seconds and people would prefer it if it meant only lasting 0.5 seconds. Too busy being blinded by: "wahhh, the mean nasty ninja girl stopped my auto attack, I'm going to ignore her for 20 seconds instead of doing something about it!". The yasuo excuse is shaky because his "he can dodge everything without wall" is situational too, but with Akali it falls flat on it's stupid face. The shroud is NOT a taunt, and you are NOT forced into fighting her while it is up. Akali has no means of honestly trading assuming equal skill WITHOUT shroud. Sure, the ability is annoying, but by god take some ownership. It's like being annoyed by a man walking slowly towards you holding a knife out in front of him, and you refuse to move. Sure, he shouldn't be walking around like that, but NOT MOVING IS YOUR OWN FAULT.
: Akali's shroud need to last shorter, honestly that shit is up way too long
: I don't care if they nerfed Akali, shes still annoying
The shroud gives her invis and untargetability, it doesn't taunt you.
: That's why he's being played with aftershock? So he doesn't pop off instantly? That's why he's building protobelt? It's not like he's got 1500 hp late game and he's an immobile squishy dude. He's got CC, he's got heal, he's got burst. On top of it, he's got ult that he can use in all variety of ways. > Please, just ignore all your clear bias, and think for a moment about how every realistic teamfight will go for a 0 defenses Sylas. Yeah, that's why it's called a TEAMfight, and he goes with aftershock. He's not a primary frontline remember? >you clearly just don't have the game knowledge to understand. As a hardstuck gold 5 0lp player, are you sure you wanna talk to me about game knowledge? Oh BuT wAiT yOu ArE gOlD 3 sO wE aRe ThE sAmE Nah, this is a smurf account. And you don't seem to have the knowledge of this game as much as you claim to have. Otherwise you wouldn't be gold at the end of every season.
I dont know what else to tell you. He has a single mobility spell. He either has to use it to get into a fight, or save it to avoid dangerous spells. All assassins follow similar patterns, with at least a combination of mobility, cc, and/or damage avoidance (healing, stealth, range etc). Sylas has a single mobility spell, and a single cc ability, but they are the same ability, so it doesn't provide him with either for any given moment - the two are fixed to each other. It's not enough for that role. This then leaves damage avoidance, or additional dashes/cc. Additional dashes is problematic because then he risks being untouchable, additional cc is dangerous for the same reason assassins typically don't have cc in the first place. That leaves damage avoidance. He's not stealthy, so stealth makes no sense. He's not ranged, so that's also out. All that's really left are defensive steroids and/or healing. Out of all the possible options, a conditional heal is the healthiest for the game, because it requires him to do something for it, and requires him to take damage first before it does anything. ___________________________________________________ To you specifically. I would never be so idiotic to bring rank into an argument. Nowhere is it stated that someone who knows a lot about the game is necessarily good at it. Ignoring that even, rank really means sweet fuck all. Rank is a display of investment to the hardcore level of the game that makes no difference until you start reaching diamond - not specifically and only game knowledge. I'll amend my previous statement; you may have the game knowledge to know all this. You just clearly don't have the common sense to use it.
Du Ma Mi (NA)
: You don't "build tank". You BUILD TANKY ITEMS. YOU BUILD LIKE A BRUISER. HE'S A BRUISER. I will reiterate: if you decide to play him like an assassin, don't complain about getting popped, because assassins get popped when they use their mobility to engage. If Fizz uses E to engage, then gets popped, he has no right to say Fizz needs buffs because he gets popped. It's absurd to think that.
Fizz has a second dash. Please point to me where Sylas' second dash is. Compare properly, don't cherry pick to suit an agenda
Du Ma Mi (NA)
: Okay, how about we buff pantheon then? Once he goes in with W or ult, he has no escapes. And if he doesn't combo like a god to keep his passive up constantly (and that's ONLY if they're autoing him instead of using ABILITIES), he'll just POP. You know why no one complains about this? Because panth builds tanky items so he won't get popped. Sylas should also do this. If you're playing full AP sylas, and refuse to position like any other assassin, and instead position like a normal bruiser, you deserve to get popped.
Theres a reason riot doesn't like champions like Sylas building tank, and it's called Tank Ekko and Tank Fizz. But you seem to know a lot more than Riot, so by all means, lets buff Sylas' tanking ability
: So rather give him buffs instead of people learning how to position? Then give Cassiopeia massive AP buff since she has no escape abilities nor can build anything even remotely tanky. Your reasoning is stupid mate. You just don't blindly buff someone cause they can pop instantly. Zed can pop instantly, Lux can pop insantly. That doesn't give them any reason to get buffed. He is right where he's supposed to be. Good damage with escape tools in his kit. His healing should be slightly nerfed still.
Every one of those you mention has cc or an escape. Sylas's options are "Go in", or do nothing. His heal only works after he's taken damage, so unless he times it like a god, he will die before it activates. Thats why the buff the ap of his heal, so he can skirmish better. Please, just ignore all your clear bias, and think for a moment about how every realistic teamfight will go for a 0 defenses Sylas. If the answer is anything other than: "he insta-dies or does nothing because he cant go in", you clearly just don't have the game knowledge to understand. That's a you problem, not a Sylas one
: how possibly could u even think that? Give me one **good** reason why he needs ap buffs?
because if he doesnt build at least off tanky, he pops instantly
: Rengar has 4.5~ items. You have 2.5~ items with arm-guard being the only defensive item. I hate assassin champions as much as the nextguy, but almost any champion in the game can do that with such a massive item advantage. you also went deathcap second item. Not saying i agree with this type of burst damage being in the game, but it's also no different than what has been in the game for ages now. The things i have a problem with are the 1-2 item assassins deleting people in 0.5 seconds.
I'll willingly agree with this for any other assassin. Rengar has disgusting frontloaded damage in unavoidable abilities. Theres no outplaying his Q. At least with Talon, Zed, Ekko etc, theres that naive hope you have that you'll be able to outplay it (sometimes it happens). With rengar, it's a fat case of: well, guess I may as well just die then. _______________________________ It completely astounds me that people can whine so endlessly about Akali being unfair because she avoids a lot of stuff, but completely ignore that none of her abilities are targeted, and she has a much longer burst time than most - if not all - other assassins, but then no one bats an eye at Rengar.
Zezilian (EUNE)
: Terrible players makes 80% player base.
_**WHINING ABOUT A CHAMPION WITH 20 SECOND WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY DEFENDS CAITLYN WITH "COS PEOPLE ARE BAD AT GAME"**_ Can't see the forest for the flower, can't you?
: What fallacious logic. A champ is banned when someone doesn't want to play against it. Just because a large amount of people don't want to play against it, doesn't mean it's broken. That's a hasty generalization.
: Silver elo player here. Is it true plat+ people don't really use chat other than to actually talk about in game strategies? (Sounds kinda dull, I'm the annoying punny person in chat most of the time)
90% of players' problems in plat is they think they are innately better than everyone else cos they got out of gold, casually forgetting that so have the other people they are playing against. For the most part the bad plays are out of over-confidence, not so much garbage game knowledge - at least from my anecdotal experience.
: How is it possible to have this game mode not be random when you will get atleast 10 champs unlocked because of rotation? And aside from someone who made their account to specifically otp a champ and never even try anything else, you'll unlock champs you want to play. From which you'll get a random one. It's not hard to understand, obviously it's easier to make me look bad for your own interests.
The intention of the game mode is you are given a champion RANDOMLY. This kind of influencing circumvents the entire premise. If you don't like it, play something else, no one would force you to sit in an ARAM, but if you're seriously going to get up on your high horse and call people inconsiderate, then you need to take a step back, friend.
: no other game mode would force me to play a champion i don't wanna play.
So your ideal all random game mode would be one completely open to being influenced in such a way that it's not actually random at all? How selfish of you
: Phantom hit just removes the supposed weakness of having 3 hit passives.
I do wonder sometimes if KaiSa's passive had 5 stacks specifically because Guinsoos...
Karfuss (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WEh3Zd2Z,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-01-29T03:21:52.232+0000) > > Not sure what Akali's you're playing against, but not even the shitty Bruiser build gets Visage. Gunblade is over 3k gold btw and you get it at the end of laning phase. That's interesting because it's her go to item for top lane. Would you like some builds? Gunblade is also over 3k gold for Katarina, which you seemingly ignored but I'm assuming that's the dissonance talking. I also don't see Katarina struggling to lane because she doesn't heal from her Q. Nor does Katarina have Akali's shroud safety net or her mobility or her execute, but that's besides the point. As I said, if Akali is struggling, then Riot can look into giving her some base stat buffs. Nobody is buying the "she can only lane after this item" or "Akali is dead now" emotive peddle.
....Did you just ask the guy with Akali in his name, if he needs to be suggested a build...? Pick your battles dude, is this REALLY the hill you want to die on?
: > [{quoted}](name=Divewing,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yzdjh2AY,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-28T20:04:33.580+0000) > > - _Year of the Pig_ > > - _Give ASol a skin_ > > ???? - _Year of the Pig_ - _Give Vayne a skin_ - _They just called Vayne a pig_ ????
This may be a huge thing for you, so sit down before you read this, MAYBE, they are saving the aurelion sol skin, for the year of the DRAGON??!?!???! :O
: > [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yzdjh2AY,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-01-28T14:42:30.354+0000) > > Aurelion recently had a skin, that meme is killed. They didn't give him a Chinese near year skin. Obv he should of been a dragon like the Baron/Kog'maw.
- _Year of the Pig_ - _Give ASol a skin_ ????
DerPunkt (EUW)
: I am not to sure about it. Or in otherwords You are kinda right. the question is how much FUN there needs to be. And how much frustration is allowed. After all playing Yasuo is a lot of fun for many people. Question is when does it get to much? At this point I am convinced riot accepted Yasuo is hated, they know he is to unfun to play against in their own measurement system aswell but they hate admitting it. So they just role with 5 bans per team. So ban him if you hate him so much. Also since he is no problem in pro play and I actually don't really get why, people always tell me how he does not work in teams etc, but I have never seen it, so I would like to see him played a few times to grasp why he does not work there better. But nvm, so sicne he is he no problem there, there actually is no urgengy to backpaddle. But just look at what happend with Akali, the hate grew out of control and she was a problem in pro play as well. So there they had no chance. I believe Yas is just at the right spot of being a problem, but not one to be dealt with.
It most definitely is a minefield to navigate, but for me personally, I think a vast majority of the conflict here comes from Riot essentially being forced to prioritise Solo Q OR Pro play. Given that they would naturally choose pro play every time, results in situations like this. In terms of champions like Yasuo and Akali I have mixed opinions. I personally think Akali's hate is overrated, her counterplay is just the most unique and unconventional in the game. Yasuo is similar though not as drastically unconventional. That being said they are still definitively more demanding on a player than someone like Lux who effectively is "don't get hit" (depending on the skill difference, this can vary in difficulty, but ultimately will always be simple and obvious counterplay). I feel it's a 50-50 between players being lazy and not putting in (what I feel) reasonable levels of though and effort, then whining when it comes back and bites them in the ass. The counter argument for this then becomes: "but why does Yasuo require this and Lux doesn't", which then leads to "what kind of game does Riot want League to be?". The context is the most appropriate thing, but frankly, I'd rather deal with champions that I can outplay rather than things like Udyr and Volibear that just run up and stat-check me.
DerPunkt (EUW)
: Though you are right with pointing that out. Isn't this what League breaks down to on core? Having fun?
That argument does not apply in ranked. I think there should be a measure of "this is too shitty to play against" that is factored in to balancing, even for ranked, but it should not be the determining factor
PB4UAME (NA)
: You know that logic is nonsensical, and even if it weren't, and somehow was sound, the sheer hypocrisy of it invalidates it anyway. I mean, why have three mana AP items if its always a choice between them, and 90% of the time its made in champion select? Why have the multitude of zeal items? Its not like they even shared the same unique, unlike the aforementioned items, and could have been purchased in tandem with actual increases in their individual efficacy, not any dead weight loss as both RIOT and you seem to try to be implying.
Because ultimately the items do different things. Steraks and Shojin are both just: "bit of damage but mostly anti-burst" Zeal items: PD - better 1v1 dueling and chase potential Hurricane: "AoE" on hits Shiv: wave clear and minor AoE damage RFC: Long range first hit Unless you boil it down to "but they all increase crit" (in which case, every class' items are the same), they do different things. Steraks and Shojin do the exact same thing in different ways, so it would always be a case of one making the other redundant. As far as mana items are concerned, everyone agrees that mage itemisation is a total shitshow, so that completely invalidates it being a fair comparison.
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Divewing

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