TheGrot (NA)
: 20/20 Hindsight on Game Balance
Unlikely, the faster pace forces pro players to play more risk heavy, which usually results in more fighting and a flashier viewing experience. It's the same reason you see teams like G2 and IG succeed so easily - they are not just ready to make the risks, they thrive in that kind of environment. You then have teams like SKT who are masters of damage control struggling so heavily because of these colossal early game leads that can potentially spring up out of next to nothing - tiny, minuscule differences quickly cascade into insurmountable advantages. All this serves the viewership of pro play, which in turn equals more cash.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: "easy to gank for him" --> coordination
There's not much to coordinate when the fucker has a point and click root. If you screw that up as a jungler it has nothing to do with coordination.
Esdese (EUW)
: Actually, you are making no damn sense behind all those words. You brought accountability to this subject, god knows why - Has jackshit to do with the overall topic, specially when you have lack of proof of what the comment really meant. What makes you think he did not read it simply because he felt like he was too important? You have no argument here and I am going to be honest. Even I opened this thread and jumped straight into the changes because that's what THE FUCKING TITTLE CALLS IT FOR. I don't give a shit about whether or not, in your eyes, it was inherently meant as laziness or ignorance. And it's all because you have no proof of his intentions. You can't have, and thus, you should not answer passive-aggressively, especially when you are a design director. If the higher ladder already shows this kind of disrespect towards a simpe question, I don't think anyone below it will be any better. You also mentioned "spoonfeeding" here. You see, it's his job to help the playerbase, not to reply to it with: "It's your problem". I understand it might sound repetitive in his eyes, but there is no need to act like this. I think anyone in his position would feel proud enough for helping anyone (whether it was genuine or not), and under whatever circumstances. Plus, you were essentially saying if we reached out to Riot support to make a question about ratios or anything particular about any ability of a champion, we would be thinking we are too important because we did not remember to check out league of legends wiki (I am meaning this on the side of newer players). If you also ask anyone in game, if X ability causes Y effect, you are considering yourself above others too, either because you haven't tested it yet, or because you did not read the tool-tip carefully enough. Really, you make no sense. I don't see the fact of not reading this entire post as a matter of superiority. Mostly because about 10-20% of these posts are the same (the introduction in specific). But why am I even trying ... You are literally defending a passive-aggressive attitude, particularly from some who's supposed to be an example to the entire community. I wouldn't mind helping someone, especially if that was my job (which is everyone's, according to The Summoner Code) - I just don't see a reason for him to add that second line, a simple quote would have sufficed.
Because it all shows a clear lack of taking accountability for your own learning. This is like skipping the terms and conditions, hitting accept, then crying when you get bent over for it. At best you can call it being foolishly risky, but all it is is laziness. If you can't be bothered to read the whole thing before commenting about it, then don't be surprised when you are called out for it. Who are you to demand Riot be at your beck and call because you couldn't be bothered? Title be damned, YOU MADE THE CONSCIOUS DECISION TO IGNORE IMPORTANT CONTEXT. Now as for you last pathetic excuse of an argument, RIOT SUPPORT IS THE MEDIUM FOR THAT KIND OF QUESTION, NOT THE COMMENTS OF A DEV DISCUSSION. I'll tell you a secret; the "customer is always right" was sales talk BS to sucker idiots into buying crap they don't need. I think you'll find Meddler's job is head of game design, not support team. The fact is, Meddler doesn't think he's too important, YOU think that YOU are.
Hatiru (EUW)
: If you're the seller and you come with "it says right there" youre not professional. You have no idea who the person is, if you can't properly tell them then don't.
Then maybe I'm just a sociopath, because I don't understand how simply being in a customer-business relationship mandates talking to people like children
: ***
The points are not mutually exclusive. There is a gross expectation that simply by being a consumer/customer it means you can get away with borderline whatever you damn well please. It all comes from a total lack of accountability. Simply ignoring the person is admittedly a less aggravating way of doing it, but I struggle to sympathise when it's all in response to such a base level of ignorance.
Hatiru (EUW)
: I get you're a game designer but that doesn't mean you should behave in a passive agressive way to that guy. This is exactly what's wrong with Riot Games. No way this kind of behaviour against customers in real life would be accepted. You would be called to your boss and asked why you're acting like a child and are disrespecting the customer. Either you don't reply to it because they'll find out anyway about the changes or you post it without the "Second sentence above" part. I wonder even more now how f*cked up Riot actually is. Can't wait to be downvoted or deleted.
Nope. Take accountability for yourself. The information WAS already posted there. If someone thinks they are too important to read it and expects a Rioter to sit around spoonfeeding them, that's their problem - not Riot's
: > [{quoted}](name=HopeStartsWithU,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zKRh0mwK,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-05-04T16:22:24.584+0000) > > Everyone here saying "good analysis" what not while I am cringing on that "proof." > > I looked up some games on and the majority of your games are even. Which means that one guy "snowballing" is actually one person doing something on the map. Jarvan for example going 19/2 while his midlaner had 18 assists and you had 10 deaths as Ahri. On top of that, you guys had a Renekton going 15/6 while both bots played evenly. > > In your second game your entire team inted while the entire enemy team was "snowballing." I don't have to add anything to it. You all had insane amounts of deaths. Heca with his 15 kills had more than his mates yet Urgot went 7/0, Fiddle 7/0 and Sivir 4/1. > > The snowballing champs are usually easy to shutdown (Yasuo, Ezreal, Nocturne, Kaisa are obviously harder to catch). Then again when I look at the scores of the team losing to those snowballers you can clearly see that the team losing is always dying too much. Something that is pretty common in low elo. > > Snowballing was/is/will always be present like that, **_especially_** in low elo. You won't see that happening in higher elos. The way it is is fine because **If I am fed I want to carry the game. I don't want to be dependent on one person who ints while 4 others try their best.** I mentioned this to someone else already but the last few games I played were from coming home after being out at the bar. I dont go 1-11 every single game lol.
Probably not something to include in data you intend to be taken seriously then...
: Before you start moaning about uselessness and obnoxious, consider being confident, happy and alpha. Trust me, it's way better ;) Who's pointing and laughing? I hope you don't assume that type of stuff but then again, I don't know what type of person you're used to surrounding yourself with but oookay. I did mention that he is not skillcapped and his peers aren't , but I took it a step further and made the case that he can't be. And honestly, he's low rated enough that he could still make dramatic, "night and day" improvement with simple fixes, as you get higher, it gets way harder. Not unlike losing weight. Going from 160 lbs to 150 might be easy but then going from 130 to 120 might be hard, because you have less flab to lose and have to actually tone up so on and so forth. Air of superiority? Don't flinch so hard, I am a gentleman. Mind you, I didn't point all of that out to embarass / humiliate you, so don't grovel for forgiveness or anything after, we're all friends here... As for telling how to do better, I'm not his coach, lmao. I'm just pointing him in the right direction and if he wanted further conversation he would have to seek that out but really? no need. I gave him the keywords and google could show him many hundreds of good resources explaining these GENERIC, FUNDAMENTAL and LOW HANGING Fruits. Honestly, the every day player doesn't need guidance anymore. League isn't such a new game, and these paths have already been trailblazed and mapped out. Now instead of telling me how dickish and smart and unreachable I am, why not calm down and have peace? You might be projecting expectations or whatever but if it makes you moan then you should reel yourself in, put your feet under you and stand up straight, I mean, what're you doing man? lol
Condescension does not equate to confidence. Likewise saying you are a happy and alpha person does not make what you say okay at all. "I spectated one of your games and you have bigger problems than anything having to do with matchmaking" You haven't provided anything. All you did was say: "You bad". "Generic, fundamental, low hanging fruits" - so tell me what they are. Go on. You claim to know what they are, and you've now spent much more time and effort making excuses than were you to just state them from the beginning so say so. Tell us what these basic problems are so we can all understand where the issues lie, and how to proceed from there. You can't use the excuse that you aren't his coach because you started this whole mess. No one cared about whether or not there were mistakes until you rudely butted in. Coaches be damned - you are still responsible. You have this strange disconnect between what you have said and either what you meant to say, or what you think you said. Regardless, you have not been anywhere close to as helpful as you seem to believe, and you have STILL not actually clarified what the problems you have identified are. Right now, you are doing the equivalent of pointing at the sky and shouting "WOW GUYS, THERE'S SOMETHING OUT THERE!". After people then ask: "What is out there, what did you see?" You then respond with: "ITS OBVIOUS, I DONT NEED TO SAY IT LOL". ^ Did you see clouds? The sun? A UFO? Another planet? Superman? _The point is we have no way of knowing because you will not tell us_ The more you do it, the more I just suspect you actually don't know what you're talking about at all. The burden of proof is on you, not us. Either you know what you are talking about and have no problem discussing it, or you don't have anything concrete enough that will get ripped to shreds so quickly that you are scared to put a limiter on yourself. Don't start something if you aren't prepared to see it through. Don't say something so baseless and then pressure other people to do your diligence for you.
: If someone tried passive aggression It went over my head. I don't believe in listing instances where a player's damage foresight failed them, listing instances where someone should have taken a different path, played around a different power spike or selected a different target so on or so forth. these "problems" or "Questions" or "Decisions" or whatever you want to call them are derived, answered through a player's own understanding + their mechanics on a game by game basis. Nobody learns from a "know it all" and if he, or you, or anyone wants to learn how to navigate those mazes that is far beyond the scope of my answer here and they should *Definitely* hire me or someone else as a coach, obviously. Instead of even offering that, I just threw out some commonly used terms and suggested some of his more glaring weaknesses and if he has any ambition and discipline at all he can follow that light and either seek out *From MANY resources* the answers and tools and grovel / work for improvement like every other player. What you don't seem to understand is that he didn't ask for improvement, he came here to whine about elo hell and how "rito matchmaking much busted" Glad to sort you out :)
See, that information is totally useless. There is a given that he hasn't played perfectly - how could he? All you've done is obnoxiously stated common knowledge with an air of superiority, then used the fact that you did so as an excuse as to why you do not have to justify having done it. If all you can do is point and laugh, then you aren't as smart as you clearly seem to think you are. No one asked for you to tell him he needs to improve - it wasn't the topic of conversation - but you come in with unsolicited observations. You make claim to be a coach, but you most certainly are not ready for it. People don't improve from being told they are bad, they improve by being taught how to understand how to do better - you clearly do not understand this concept. Frankly, you are acting like a base coward - hiding behind the anonymity of the internet, and putting your expectations on someone unasked for, then offering no assistance for it. That is not helping people, it's just being a dick. Until you've pointed out a legitimate problem, all you've done is waltzed in, loudly shouted "I AM THE SMARTS", and wandered off. It's pretentious to an asinine degree.
Saianna (EUNE)
: > If he uses it aggressively he cant use it to escape ganks. Well sure, but unlike others Zed has few ways to escape, including W. He's still alot more slippery than most of mid mages. Ganking zed is possible but for that you need instant semi-long+ CC/suppression combined with all the burst you can dish out from 2 champions to maybe kill him. You miss on the part where for skilled zed it takes about a second to R-W-Q-E and ignite you, which is instant death pretty much. If you lack the CC, or you miss it. You are dead. Under your turret. And he can tank 3-4 shots and still live. Rushing seeker is both good and bad suggestion. Yes, you will definitely take less damage from Zed. But you will have huge mana issues, which means you won't be able to push waves, nor actually farm. Many ppl forget mages, without abilities, can't finish of CS with turrets help. Not to mention while the wave is under your turret Zeds actively still harrassing you or he's ganking another lane. Even with lost tome your mana issues are only delayed by few waves, cause getting dry on a mage is inevitable.
What were you doing for 6 whole minutes where he got to level 6 for free? If you are standing on train tracks, and the train thats coming in 20 minutes squashes you, that's still your fault for not moving.
: No, matchmaking is fine and you are a volatile cheese player who will struggle to climb before being hardstuck in the diamond mines of moria. I spectated one of your games and you have bigger problems than anything having to do with matchmaking, address those before you grasp at straws...
Maybe rather than super passive-aggression, point out what he's done wrong? There is a tendency among the Boards, Reddit, etc to throw endless amounts of results-based analysis with total disregard for in-the-moment context. Pointing out the issues is a lot more helpful to everyone than just saying there are mysterious issues that exist in some nether-realm ether.
Velasan (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DrMulli,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pIEMPjJu,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-04-25T19:02:53.471+0000) > > No matter what people think, this is a team game, > there is a way higher chance of there being 1 player that can lose you the game > than win you the game. Totally agree. It's just that a few seasons ago people didn't die so much in the first 5 minutes of the game, and it used to be 3 feeders lost you the game, maybe 2 if they were feeding really badly. Now one person screws up and you can't contest an objective, and they just use the objective to end the game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Sandsexual,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qO7Bmjii,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2019-04-25T12:08:37.169+0000) > > why is yasuo banned when lux isnt even played mid anymore > > looking for counterplay isn't the point of this post. Seeing as how everyone playing league has had a chance to fight him because of his high playrate, everyone already knows how to play against him. It's just that he feels terrible to play against because of his kit, and that's not the same thing as being overpowered. Yasuo doesn't need any nerfs, getting nerfs wont do anything because he'll still get the same banrate. The problem is in his kit, he needs a mini rework. Exactly this. People saw the title and instantly assumed I was going to complain about him being OP before even reading the post. So many people hate playing against Yasuo, they'd rather ban him and play against an OP champ.
There is some validity in the argument though. I personally think NeoAkali was more or less fine on release (at the least in terms of her kit mechanics - perhaps the numbers needed adjusting, but that's minimal work in the end). The problem with NeoAkali is she broke traditional counterplay trends, and instead had new means of counterplay. This became a huge problem for her because rather than learn/adapt, people just banned her and whined she was OP/broken. ___________ This isn't to say that everything you say about Yasuo and his banrate is now invalidated, but mass banning of a champion creates an environment where the people who ban it are far less equipped to deal with it because of such infrequent exposure. The little they do have they then disregard as the champion being busted. I'll readily agree Yasuo can be obnoxious, but 9/10 times, I've found this is a player being all show with no thought, and they'll typically put themselves in idiot positions because of it. At the end of the day - at least for me - Yasuo has a degree of avoidability. I'd sooner call champions like Jax and Volibear OP than Yasuo.
Hayoi (NA)
: I really hate Kayle's new gameplay design
Azir, Kog Maw, Jinx, Cassio, and Yi all do the same thing. You have 11 levels worth of time to either shit on her, or impact the map while shes useless. That's the way late-scaling champions work. It's all about good play and decision making. If you simply sit in lane playing farmville, yeah, she will probably rip you a new one.
: reported for harassment. I explained it nicely. I asked not so nicely that you take a hint. Now you're just trying to be a dick.
I defended myself, you decided it was harassment. If anything you harassed me first, calling me a butthurt toxic Akali main, and you didn't even have the base decency to tell me why you think I am wrong. This is the entire problem. You just resort to the child tactic of fingers-in-your-ears "la-la-la-cant-hear-youuuuuu". If you aren't interested in discussing on the DISCUSSION boards, why are you here? Rather than get offended and whine even more, how about you actually treat everyone else maturely. There's a reason why you are so upset with this, and it's not my fault.
: ok, one more time for the people who don't understand what the word "opinion" means............. I have a personal bias, and I fully understand and admit that personal bias. I do NOT need a toxic, butthurt akali main telling me why everything is fine, because that is not the goddamn point of a personal opinion and bias. Someone asked WHY people hate certain champions. I gave my opinionated answer. Take your fucking harassment elsewhere.
Thats not an opinion, thats laziness. Take responsibility for your own actions. No one forces you to engage with her when she drops shroud, but you do because you simply either cannot be bothered to play around it, or just don't care. The ability gives arguably the largest abuse window to the opponent in the game, all you have to do is have the patience and self-discipline to ignore her for 6 seconds. If you think that is unfair, that is you making an excuse for your own laziness, not a personal opinion. You also completely ignored the other parts of OP's question - how would they be made better/fixed, and/or what could be done to bring other classes/champions closer to their level - of course people are going to challenge the logic of your excuses; there was an assumption that this, while taking into account frustration etc, was ultimately a discussion about WHICH CHAMPIONS NEEDED CHANGING (if any). Lastly, I'm not an Akali main, I'm an Azir main, but stepping back and WATCHING the game instead of PLAYING it has made a huge difference for me in seeing what is actually busted and what isn't. The constant circlejerk around champions like Akali who are perfectly fair and reasonable, are ones that are perpetuated by people like you, who try to convince everyone that their laziness is a legitimate opinion. I gave you two chances to realise this - you ignored me, and then berated me about how I'm ignoring your opinion. That right there just proves it's not an opinion - you are not interested in learning anything different. You have arbitrarily decided you don't like Akali, and falsified reasoning for it. You then masquerade your laziness as your opinion. Just because you say it is your opinion, doesn't obligatorily mean it is correct or valid. You can ignore me again if you like, but hopefully you will at least go away from this and think twice about how quickly you jump to a conclusion about something without forethought, and then how stubbornly you will cling to it afterwards.
: You seem to be missing my point. If she drops shroud in the middle of the wave, she may as well be a Yasuo using Wind Wall when it comes to CS - I either miss my cs and fall behind gradually, or I attempt to claim my CS and lose 60% of my hp to an enemy I can barely hit. And this is opinion anyway...
Idk, I personally am completely fine with her wasting her only defensive tool to zone me for a wave of cs I probably won't miss a lot of, leaving her completely open to whatever I want to do for the next 20 seconds, but yeah I guess for 6 seconds it can be the worlds smallest frustration... I guess I see your point
: My personal hate is more towards certain ones than others, and its not really for a generalized reason. {{champion:84}} Literally cannot target her because of her new W. If I'm not playing an AoE laner, I autolose because I can't see her until she explodes me, then she ducks back into the smoke and I can't target her again. If I *am* playing an AoE laner, I have a very narrow window between all her mobility to land my AoE...on a target I can't see...who's going to use her mobility the *millisecond* I start a casting animation. (ok, *millisecond* is exaggerating, but she's very frustrating to hit with anything, and the only way to really beat her is to farm war her and hope she's greedy enough to dive at you out of her zone so you can have a ghost of a chance to hit her) --- {{champion:39}} is a really personal bias, because of all the jumps and a distinct lack of Morello nerfs. (if that shows my age in this game. xD) I'm starting to get decent at her, so I'm beginning to understand exactly how she can jump 20 times in 2 seconds (how do these people still have a functioning Q key? Lbs) but I still have no idea how they do this so acutely without some sort of third party macro that auto-procs low hp minions and marks with her Q, because the inhuman reactions are insane. --- {{champion:141}} is just overtuned, especially in blue form. By the time I see that little mark that shows he's gonna come out of the wall, I'm already dead. Add to that the part that he can walk through walls with bonus MS to begin with (meaning some ridiculous ganks from angles you rarely have wards for) and he pretty much just ends you before you even knew he was in your lane at all. I can *sometimes* handle red Kayn but blue kayn pretty much auto-cucks anyone with less than 4k hp. --- {{champion:555}} is more just super annoying than anything...but the main complaint I have actually isn't his ult like most people. He regens more from his gray health than Kench - the proprietor of gray health - and Kench is a tank. All that regen means it's ridiculously hard to poke him out of lane, which is sad, because the usual response to kill lane supports is to do just that - poke them out until they can't commit. --- {{champion:92}} & {{champion:157}} I'll throw in the same segment because it's about the same difference: you can't kite them, you can't catch them, and you can't outdamage them once they hit 6. I'll also add that these two champions in particular...idk what it is, whether it's how tryhard they are, or how competitive they are (no, those are not the same thing) but every time I see a Riven or Yasuo player - doesn't matter what team, doesn't matter how good or bad - they are **ALL** ***VEHEMENTLY TOXIC*** to **EVERYONE** in the game.
: THE GAME IS NOT ONLY ABOUT CHINA! There are many, many other servers and players to care for. If riot only cares about china then how about fucking deleting the other servers? If they don't do that it means that WE AS PLAYERS HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY OUR OPINION, CHINESE OR NOT AND SINCE WE HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT RIOT HAS STOPPED CARING ABOUT US THEN WE HAVE TO BE RIGHT, don't we?
Its not entirely about China, no. But you don't then get to stand there and say Riot should immediately cater to your specific tastes, that is not how it works. Fact is you will have to accept that there is no correct decision for riot because they have a very divisive GLOBAL playerbase. Or to put it much more simply - learn how to stop being so selfish.
: Riot does not understand their game anymore
This has been repeated over and over by Riot, and you refuse to listen. You are not the only players of LoL this company has to cater for. As far as China is concerned, the game state is fantastic, people like Blaustoise and Repertoir have provided statistics and SOLID AND LEGITIMATE reasoning why they havent nerfed "X-Champion-The-Boards-Can't-Be-Assed-To-Get-Gud-For". By all means disagree with it, but just because Riot doesn't cater to your every impulsive whim, does not mean they are incompetent, or the game is obligatorily awful. This is all entirely subjective on every level, and relative to the person making the argument, so get off your high horse.
Netorare (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Divewing,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E23tE0Ex,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-31T00:21:11.304+0000) > > IT HAS A 20 SECOND COOLDOWN Ah yes, the usual it has a long cooldown... Akali&yasuo defensive abilities will always be broken no matter the cooldown...
I'm sorry, but take responsibility. How long are we going to keep whining about champion abilities with long cooldowns that DO NOT FORCE YOU TO ENGAGE WITH THE CHAMPION. People don't hate Akali shroud for it's length, or it's "lack of counterplay". They hate it because it forces them to change how they approach her. God forbid a champion was allowed an ability to give her a fixed moment of power. No, it's not enough. Cooldown could be 2 seconds and people would prefer it if it meant only lasting 0.5 seconds. Too busy being blinded by: "wahhh, the mean nasty ninja girl stopped my auto attack, I'm going to ignore her for 20 seconds instead of doing something about it!". The yasuo excuse is shaky because his "he can dodge everything without wall" is situational too, but with Akali it falls flat on it's stupid face. The shroud is NOT a taunt, and you are NOT forced into fighting her while it is up. Akali has no means of honestly trading assuming equal skill WITHOUT shroud. Sure, the ability is annoying, but by god take some ownership. It's like being annoyed by a man walking slowly towards you holding a knife out in front of him, and you refuse to move. Sure, he shouldn't be walking around like that, but NOT MOVING IS YOUR OWN FAULT.
: Akali's shroud need to last shorter, honestly that shit is up way too long
: I don't care if they nerfed Akali, shes still annoying
The shroud gives her invis and untargetability, it doesn't taunt you.
: That's why he's being played with aftershock? So he doesn't pop off instantly? That's why he's building protobelt? It's not like he's got 1500 hp late game and he's an immobile squishy dude. He's got CC, he's got heal, he's got burst. On top of it, he's got ult that he can use in all variety of ways. > Please, just ignore all your clear bias, and think for a moment about how every realistic teamfight will go for a 0 defenses Sylas. Yeah, that's why it's called a TEAMfight, and he goes with aftershock. He's not a primary frontline remember? >you clearly just don't have the game knowledge to understand. As a hardstuck gold 5 0lp player, are you sure you wanna talk to me about game knowledge? Oh BuT wAiT yOu ArE gOlD 3 sO wE aRe ThE sAmE Nah, this is a smurf account. And you don't seem to have the knowledge of this game as much as you claim to have. Otherwise you wouldn't be gold at the end of every season.
I dont know what else to tell you. He has a single mobility spell. He either has to use it to get into a fight, or save it to avoid dangerous spells. All assassins follow similar patterns, with at least a combination of mobility, cc, and/or damage avoidance (healing, stealth, range etc). Sylas has a single mobility spell, and a single cc ability, but they are the same ability, so it doesn't provide him with either for any given moment - the two are fixed to each other. It's not enough for that role. This then leaves damage avoidance, or additional dashes/cc. Additional dashes is problematic because then he risks being untouchable, additional cc is dangerous for the same reason assassins typically don't have cc in the first place. That leaves damage avoidance. He's not stealthy, so stealth makes no sense. He's not ranged, so that's also out. All that's really left are defensive steroids and/or healing. Out of all the possible options, a conditional heal is the healthiest for the game, because it requires him to do something for it, and requires him to take damage first before it does anything. ___________________________________________________ To you specifically. I would never be so idiotic to bring rank into an argument. Nowhere is it stated that someone who knows a lot about the game is necessarily good at it. Ignoring that even, rank really means sweet fuck all. Rank is a display of investment to the hardcore level of the game that makes no difference until you start reaching diamond - not specifically and only game knowledge. I'll amend my previous statement; you may have the game knowledge to know all this. You just clearly don't have the common sense to use it.
Du Ma Mi (NA)
: You don't "build tank". You BUILD TANKY ITEMS. YOU BUILD LIKE A BRUISER. HE'S A BRUISER. I will reiterate: if you decide to play him like an assassin, don't complain about getting popped, because assassins get popped when they use their mobility to engage. If Fizz uses E to engage, then gets popped, he has no right to say Fizz needs buffs because he gets popped. It's absurd to think that.
Fizz has a second dash. Please point to me where Sylas' second dash is. Compare properly, don't cherry pick to suit an agenda
Du Ma Mi (NA)
: Okay, how about we buff pantheon then? Once he goes in with W or ult, he has no escapes. And if he doesn't combo like a god to keep his passive up constantly (and that's ONLY if they're autoing him instead of using ABILITIES), he'll just POP. You know why no one complains about this? Because panth builds tanky items so he won't get popped. Sylas should also do this. If you're playing full AP sylas, and refuse to position like any other assassin, and instead position like a normal bruiser, you deserve to get popped.
Theres a reason riot doesn't like champions like Sylas building tank, and it's called Tank Ekko and Tank Fizz. But you seem to know a lot more than Riot, so by all means, lets buff Sylas' tanking ability
: So rather give him buffs instead of people learning how to position? Then give Cassiopeia massive AP buff since she has no escape abilities nor can build anything even remotely tanky. Your reasoning is stupid mate. You just don't blindly buff someone cause they can pop instantly. Zed can pop instantly, Lux can pop insantly. That doesn't give them any reason to get buffed. He is right where he's supposed to be. Good damage with escape tools in his kit. His healing should be slightly nerfed still.
Every one of those you mention has cc or an escape. Sylas's options are "Go in", or do nothing. His heal only works after he's taken damage, so unless he times it like a god, he will die before it activates. Thats why the buff the ap of his heal, so he can skirmish better. Please, just ignore all your clear bias, and think for a moment about how every realistic teamfight will go for a 0 defenses Sylas. If the answer is anything other than: "he insta-dies or does nothing because he cant go in", you clearly just don't have the game knowledge to understand. That's a you problem, not a Sylas one
: how possibly could u even think that? Give me one **good** reason why he needs ap buffs?
because if he doesnt build at least off tanky, he pops instantly
: Rengar has 4.5~ items. You have 2.5~ items with arm-guard being the only defensive item. I hate assassin champions as much as the nextguy, but almost any champion in the game can do that with such a massive item advantage. you also went deathcap second item. Not saying i agree with this type of burst damage being in the game, but it's also no different than what has been in the game for ages now. The things i have a problem with are the 1-2 item assassins deleting people in 0.5 seconds.
I'll willingly agree with this for any other assassin. Rengar has disgusting frontloaded damage in unavoidable abilities. Theres no outplaying his Q. At least with Talon, Zed, Ekko etc, theres that naive hope you have that you'll be able to outplay it (sometimes it happens). With rengar, it's a fat case of: well, guess I may as well just die then. _______________________________ It completely astounds me that people can whine so endlessly about Akali being unfair because she avoids a lot of stuff, but completely ignore that none of her abilities are targeted, and she has a much longer burst time than most - if not all - other assassins, but then no one bats an eye at Rengar.
Zezilian (EUNE)
: Terrible players makes 80% player base.
: What fallacious logic. A champ is banned when someone doesn't want to play against it. Just because a large amount of people don't want to play against it, doesn't mean it's broken. That's a hasty generalization.
: Silver elo player here. Is it true plat+ people don't really use chat other than to actually talk about in game strategies? (Sounds kinda dull, I'm the annoying punny person in chat most of the time)
90% of players' problems in plat is they think they are innately better than everyone else cos they got out of gold, casually forgetting that so have the other people they are playing against. For the most part the bad plays are out of over-confidence, not so much garbage game knowledge - at least from my anecdotal experience.
: How is it possible to have this game mode not be random when you will get atleast 10 champs unlocked because of rotation? And aside from someone who made their account to specifically otp a champ and never even try anything else, you'll unlock champs you want to play. From which you'll get a random one. It's not hard to understand, obviously it's easier to make me look bad for your own interests.
The intention of the game mode is you are given a champion RANDOMLY. This kind of influencing circumvents the entire premise. If you don't like it, play something else, no one would force you to sit in an ARAM, but if you're seriously going to get up on your high horse and call people inconsiderate, then you need to take a step back, friend.
: no other game mode would force me to play a champion i don't wanna play.
So your ideal all random game mode would be one completely open to being influenced in such a way that it's not actually random at all? How selfish of you
: Phantom hit just removes the supposed weakness of having 3 hit passives.
I do wonder sometimes if KaiSa's passive had 5 stacks specifically because Guinsoos...
Karfuss (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WEh3Zd2Z,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-01-29T03:21:52.232+0000) > > Not sure what Akali's you're playing against, but not even the shitty Bruiser build gets Visage. Gunblade is over 3k gold btw and you get it at the end of laning phase. That's interesting because it's her go to item for top lane. Would you like some builds? Gunblade is also over 3k gold for Katarina, which you seemingly ignored but I'm assuming that's the dissonance talking. I also don't see Katarina struggling to lane because she doesn't heal from her Q. Nor does Katarina have Akali's shroud safety net or her mobility or her execute, but that's besides the point. As I said, if Akali is struggling, then Riot can look into giving her some base stat buffs. Nobody is buying the "she can only lane after this item" or "Akali is dead now" emotive peddle.
....Did you just ask the guy with Akali in his name, if he needs to be suggested a build...? Pick your battles dude, is this REALLY the hill you want to die on?
: > [{quoted}](name=Divewing,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yzdjh2AY,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-28T20:04:33.580+0000) > > - _Year of the Pig_ > > - _Give ASol a skin_ > > ???? - _Year of the Pig_ - _Give Vayne a skin_ - _They just called Vayne a pig_ ????
This may be a huge thing for you, so sit down before you read this, MAYBE, they are saving the aurelion sol skin, for the year of the DRAGON??!?!???! :O
: > [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yzdjh2AY,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-01-28T14:42:30.354+0000) > > Aurelion recently had a skin, that meme is killed. They didn't give him a Chinese near year skin. Obv he should of been a dragon like the Baron/Kog'maw.
- _Year of the Pig_ - _Give ASol a skin_ ????
DerPunkt (EUW)
: I am not to sure about it. Or in otherwords You are kinda right. the question is how much FUN there needs to be. And how much frustration is allowed. After all playing Yasuo is a lot of fun for many people. Question is when does it get to much? At this point I am convinced riot accepted Yasuo is hated, they know he is to unfun to play against in their own measurement system aswell but they hate admitting it. So they just role with 5 bans per team. So ban him if you hate him so much. Also since he is no problem in pro play and I actually don't really get why, people always tell me how he does not work in teams etc, but I have never seen it, so I would like to see him played a few times to grasp why he does not work there better. But nvm, so sicne he is he no problem there, there actually is no urgengy to backpaddle. But just look at what happend with Akali, the hate grew out of control and she was a problem in pro play as well. So there they had no chance. I believe Yas is just at the right spot of being a problem, but not one to be dealt with.
It most definitely is a minefield to navigate, but for me personally, I think a vast majority of the conflict here comes from Riot essentially being forced to prioritise Solo Q OR Pro play. Given that they would naturally choose pro play every time, results in situations like this. In terms of champions like Yasuo and Akali I have mixed opinions. I personally think Akali's hate is overrated, her counterplay is just the most unique and unconventional in the game. Yasuo is similar though not as drastically unconventional. That being said they are still definitively more demanding on a player than someone like Lux who effectively is "don't get hit" (depending on the skill difference, this can vary in difficulty, but ultimately will always be simple and obvious counterplay). I feel it's a 50-50 between players being lazy and not putting in (what I feel) reasonable levels of though and effort, then whining when it comes back and bites them in the ass. The counter argument for this then becomes: "but why does Yasuo require this and Lux doesn't", which then leads to "what kind of game does Riot want League to be?". The context is the most appropriate thing, but frankly, I'd rather deal with champions that I can outplay rather than things like Udyr and Volibear that just run up and stat-check me.
DerPunkt (EUW)
: Though you are right with pointing that out. Isn't this what League breaks down to on core? Having fun?
That argument does not apply in ranked. I think there should be a measure of "this is too shitty to play against" that is factored in to balancing, even for ranked, but it should not be the determining factor
: You know that logic is nonsensical, and even if it weren't, and somehow was sound, the sheer hypocrisy of it invalidates it anyway. I mean, why have three mana AP items if its always a choice between them, and 90% of the time its made in champion select? Why have the multitude of zeal items? Its not like they even shared the same unique, unlike the aforementioned items, and could have been purchased in tandem with actual increases in their individual efficacy, not any dead weight loss as both RIOT and you seem to try to be implying.
Because ultimately the items do different things. Steraks and Shojin are both just: "bit of damage but mostly anti-burst" Zeal items: PD - better 1v1 dueling and chase potential Hurricane: "AoE" on hits Shiv: wave clear and minor AoE damage RFC: Long range first hit Unless you boil it down to "but they all increase crit" (in which case, every class' items are the same), they do different things. Steraks and Shojin do the exact same thing in different ways, so it would always be a case of one making the other redundant. As far as mana items are concerned, everyone agrees that mage itemisation is a total shitshow, so that completely invalidates it being a fair comparison.
Verxint (NA)
: Ah so basically "we can't figure out how to make something that lets fighters be durable in a reasonable way so we're going to forget about it indefinitely and give you another "EPIC DAMAGES" item with a passive component that was already shown to be really obnoxious to deal with and only good on a few specific champs but thats totally fine while giving bruisers and fighters more diverse options to survive isn't"
No, it's because it has too much overlap with Steraks. It creates a situation where you always ask "steraks or shojins?" and the answer is always "whichever has better numbers" Having an agenda is fine but keep it to yourself.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Kep0qKg,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-25T22:26:55.278+0000) > > I don't see anyone bitching about Ivern or Ornn when they say this shitty line. Because Ivern and Ornn do not break the game in a frustrating way when they bend the rules. Key word, _bend._ Akali's shroud outright breaks the rules in the most frustrating way possible. Fizz, Elise, and Zhonya's _bend_ the rules when it comes to how towers operate, and Akali took that and cranked it to 11.
Im telling you right now. This won't magically make you be able to deal with Akali. You'll come back and complain more
: > [{quoted}](name=Divewing,realm=OCE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=RgwqT7KP,comment-id=00b30000,timestamp=2019-01-25T23:24:33.226+0000) > > That AA playstyle was toxic. It made Aatrox a walking statcheck. > > The fact that that is the only thing you can identify as uniquely "Aatrox" goes to show how much of a failure of a champion he was. > > I'm not saying this one is better, but you don't really have a leg to stand on. Your entire argument is built on a completely toxic playstyle with no interaction - how do you modernise auto attacking? > > The only mistake regarding "old" Aatrox Riot could make right now would be bringing him back. Toxic you say, yet there is Master Yi, Yasuo, Tryndamere, Irelia, and many other champs whos are just as stat cheeky as old Aatrox was and Riot isn't really planning anything about these. These "stat check" thing is just a poor excuse from Riot because they have no spine to admit the fact that they have failed this time. How can you call a Rework succes when it's full of animation bugs? It's true that they have fixed Blood Moon Aatrox's walk animation, but the rest of the skins are still buggy and the classic skin's banner wings are invisible even if you unfurl them with CTRL + 5. Other funny fact is that Aatrox have no joke anymore only his old joke animation without a single Voiceline, and his taunt sounds more like a joke. Instead of nerfing him to death, they should finally focus on cleaning up RiotJag's unfinished mess and get him fully fixed up so people don't have to play with a non-finished champion.
Irelia is completely dependent on being able to proc multiple qs, meaning she relies on hitting E and R - these are both skillshots. Yasuo is forced into building crit, so doesnt become unkillable, at least in the same way Oldtrox was. In my opinion Yi needs a rework but I think Riot likes him as is for similar reasons to annie and garen, but that is just conjecture. Tryndamere is an abomination, everyone knows it, and hes on the list for a VGU. Also please don't put words in my mouth, I never said the rework is a success (I specifically stated this), but anyone who seriously thinks Oldtrox's kit deserves any place in League is delusional.
: I mean... While thats true, what makes her need it so much more than other melee champs? Dont mention zed, that dude is way too safe to be a fair argument. I feel like the heal on Akalis Q is one of those things people will say she needs it, but not a single person would suggest it had she not had it when she came out. Very much like the attackspeed slow on fioras W when it doesnt stun. Wouldnt it make more sense for akali to have more interesting healing abilities than pressing Q, waiting for energy and then repeating? Her old passive was honestly a better heal gameplay wise.
What I'm about to say only applies early game: Believe me, you dont want Akali's heal removed. The heal is a weakness for Akali, it means wasting your primary damage spell to essentially not-die - only this in turn makes you more susceptible to being all inned. "But she can shroud and get the energy back" Yes she can. Once about every 20 seconds. If you are forcing shroud simply so that Akali can stay in lane, thats a win for you, and your chance to punish the ever loving christ out of her once that's down. She cant sit in it and wait for you to get close because it'll fall of and she'll still have low health, but if she qs the minions, shes losing damage to fight back. Either way, just because she dumps shroud doesnt mean you are obligated to fight her. You have 20 seconds after to at the least create a CS lead. Remove the heal and two things happen, Akali gets given more damage or general tankiness to compensate, and she loses another window of weakness. She'd end up more feast or famine. ________________________________________ Now once she completes gunblade the healing gets pretty dumb pretty quick, especially since she typically hits level 9 around the same time (meaning her Q hits minions harder - more damage more spellvamp), and I feel that a hit to THAT sustain would be fine, but early lane, especially outright REMOVING the heal, I completely disagree with.
: Hey Meddler, I'm Valanáro and I fell in love with Aatrox when I first started playing your game 4 and a half years ago. I enjoyed his gameplay, visuals, lore and overall theme, even reaching Diamond 2 in season 8. When the 'Rework' went up it was evident that this was a completely new champion. After reading the posts on Nexus and understanding what Riot's goals are with a 'Champion Update', I have to say that the results of Aatrox's rework don't line up. "A champion update is a graphical or kit (play style) update that occurs after a champion's initial release. Over the past year, our teams have been working on updating champions whose visuals or gameplay don't fit with the current state of the game. Our goal is to level up any outdated visuals or gameplay to make them feel fresh **while still retaining what makes them unique as a champion**." Aatrox was an unique auto-attack based champion, using proper aa management to either heal or do bonus damage. This provided a unique balance between deciding whether to do significantly more damage or heal yourself which separated a good Aatrox from a weak one. The rework did not retain any of this concept, turning him into a caster with completely different abilities. I understand the need to change his gameplay as a drain-tank is not healthy, but completely removing this mechanic and playstyle contradicts what Riot has published as their intent of a Champion Update, which is what players requested. Of course a big VGU involves changing/removing/adding abilities, similar to how Irelia got her W and E, Nunu got his big snowball, Urgot got his R. Aatrox players expected a Warwick+ level update, where a champion had all of his abilities modernized. Warwick was similar to Aatrox, an unhealthy drain tank who built one or two AS/On-Hit items, into full tank. The rework provided a significant change to his abilities, modernizing his gameplay to meet higher standards, but maintained his personality and playstyle as well as the concept of his old abilities. With the rework, Aatrox lost his abilities, playstyle, gameplay, lore, and voice-lines. The similarities between the original and rework include: using a similar in-game model (for the skins), sharing a name, having an ult that makes him big and do more damage, having a revive, and having passive healing. With these changes taken into account, it's evident that Aatrox's uniqueness was not retained which then means that the Champion Update did not live up to Riot's own standards. On the nexus post , Reav3 says: "Retiring a champion is not something we have ever considered, and likely we never would consider this. We would much rather go back and update our older problematic champions with either small reworks or through big VGUs. Retiring a champion would set a weird precedence where **players would always be worried that the things they invested in would be taken away from them at some point**, which isn’t something we want our players to worry about." -Reav3 Aatrox lost everything about him that defined him. His abilities and gameplay were removed, his lore was removed, and his voice-lines were removed. If that's not "retiring" a champion then this nexus post has no purpose other than to make Riot look good in the eyes of the majority. What about the hundreds to thousands of hours that players invested in Aatrox? What about the skins they bought to play as THAT champion? What about the time people took to learn how to use his kit and all the lane matchups? What about the artists who creating amazing pieces of art because they loved the champion? Reav3 says that Riot doesn't want players to worry that their champion and investments (not just money) would be taken away but that is exactly what happened here. I understand that Riot wants the best for their game, and that sometimes they make mistakes. Riot really just needs to acknowledge that the Aatrox rework did not deliver a successful Champion Update, yet delivered a successful New Champion. I think it would be beneficial for Riot to start fixing this mistake, rather than pretend it never happened or that it was the right thing to do. This could set a new standard for Riot as an engaging company which will work to improve League of Legends, who isn't afraid to admit they made mistakes and correct them. **TLDR:** Aatrox was retired from League of Legends, which Riot said they wouldn't do, and Riot could solve this problem to benefit both players and themselves. Thanks for the long read, just remember that Aatrox mains won't die out. **Pain is temporary, Victory is forever!** Valanáro
That AA playstyle was toxic. It made Aatrox a walking statcheck. The fact that that is the only thing you can identify as uniquely "Aatrox" goes to show how much of a failure of a champion he was. I'm not saying this one is better, but you don't really have a leg to stand on. Your entire argument is built on a completely toxic playstyle with no interaction - how do you modernise auto attacking? The only mistake regarding "old" Aatrox Riot could make right now would be bringing him back.
: There's 3 ways to play against it: Ban her, pick someone whose entire kit is massive AoE, or sit in well to not feed her even though she's sitting under your turret in stealth at level 4 ripping you to shreds and taking no tower hits. You're right. Much counterplay. Such wow.
No shes not murdering you under tower at level 4. Her stealth reset isnt short enough that you cant at least hit her, the tower certainly will, and even dumping her full combo on you - ignoring that the tower would kill her first - she'd only be able to kill you if you stood there and took it. Fact is they could remove the stealth under tower and it wouldnt change much. People simply arent interested in changing their playstyle. You cant deal with an Akali the same way you can deal with any old champion. Her shroud has very obvious and exploitable flaws, but they arent things people consider when fighting her, because they expect to be able to dump their whole kit on her, she dies, and they get patted on the back for being good at game.
: Sincere question to riot about champion design
akali is fair, irelia is only strong cos conq is, yasuo is fair, jax is complete horseshit and has been for ages - needs a rework. Can hate me for it if you want, but instead of uber downvoting, please consider asking me why, or telling me why you disagree. I don't mind being proven wrong, but I do mind being buried for a controversial opinion
Blukachu (EUW)
: Hey, nice comment. Just to let you know though, if you mention Wukong you won't get any response from Riot. That's just how that works.
Except that's not true. Riot has stated before that there are completely polarising opinions on Wukong across the global playerbase. Unfortunately, a significant portion of players DONT want wukong changed. How do you propose Riot fixes that one easily?
Shahamut (NA)
: Yeah, I mostly think the healing is only a real problem with how fast she can spam Q. She basically can burst heal with Q, W, Q lol
If she's doing that then she doesnt have shroud for 20 seconds and is asking to get absolutely manhandled. The energy requirement for her Q healing stops it from being problematic in any way shape or form. She cant both kill you and uber-heal in lane - its one or the other.
Show more


Level 122 (OCE)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion