: PSA: Use the Pick Intent feature, please.
I just do the Stixxay and hover one of my favourite champs that I won't be playing that game. Even if I'm support, I hover {{champion:6}} or {{champion:112}} in the opening ban phase.
Veraska (NA)
: post 10 champs you hate, and see if people can guess your main!
{{champion:157}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:201}} To be fair, I did just want to put Yasuo 10 times but eh, there's a list for you.
W Flynn (NA)
: This forces Yasuo to rely on his teammates, which isn't bad, just makes him have far less solo power, and unless you build a comp around him he would be less useful. Gnar is a different champion, who works very differently from yasuo, and they are realistically not comparable, but lets play along. Gnar's ultimate gives him displacement, it has more damage, it stuns for longer, it doesn't keep him suspended and weak to enemies, it can be used to disengage, it's a DIFFERENT ABILITY. Gnar is a ranged champion, gnar gets free movespeed based on attacking enemies, has a far less situational repositioning tool that can cover double the distance and doesn't require a target, has long range poke for "FREE" with a way to lower the cooldown, percentage health damage, stun, doesn't require a comp built around him in order to effectively use his ult and can successfully use it alone. When you list things like this, you don't realize that they are different champions, with different kits, designed to do different things. You can't say "Yasuo is a better gnar" or "Gnar is a better yasuo", because they both thrive in different scenarios, some will be better in one, while another in a different one.
> [{quoted}](name=FreezeDragon105,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2glUrVgA,comment-id=000500040000,timestamp=2016-08-05T00:09:21.654+0000) > Gnar is a different champion, who works very differently from yasuo, and they are realistically not comparable, but lets play along. Gnar's ultimate gives him displacement, it has more damage, it stuns for longer, it doesn't keep him suspended and weak to enemies, it can be used to disengage, it's a DIFFERENT ABILITY. The comment I was replying to suggested that Yasuo couldn't always activate his ultimate and had only one way of using it which was situational (His q) which was an important part of his balance. I merely used Gnar as an example of a champion whose R is gated to a certain situation and can't be used in another circumstance and then gave the list of champions with any ability to proc Yasuo's ultimate (I will grant some, like Anivia, are heavily, heavily conditional, but they do proc it) to show that his point that Yasuo players should point to this as an example of balance is pointless and wrong. Also, your point about Yasuo having far less solo power would be valid, if he couldn't proc it himself. But he can, he just also gets benefits from one of the 40+ other champions that can help him proc the ultimate if they happen to be on his team. And so I don't waste time with multiple comments, I just want to address a few things you said in a few different posts: 1: You listed a set of mages who have "On-Demand" cc. However, most of these CD's are approximately half the CD of Yas's windwall in the early game and also aren't an ability those champions max meaning you get your first one blocked by the windwall and then have one chance to hit him with your cc before he can block it again in several circumstances. Several of these abilities are also skillshots or AoE cc with a visual indicator before taking effect so if you stand near minions, you're an even harder target to hit as Yasuo. This also doesn't account for the fact that the windwall blocks from both sides and also starts from inside Yasuo's player model meaning he blocks abilities that are basically on top of him meaning there's a lot of room for error using that ability. 2: You discussed the fact that his reduced crit damage is to offset the fact that he can easily get to 100% crit chance with his passive. Again, it would be valid if that was the biggest issue, however, the most successful Yas build right now ignores that factor and just builds a set of bruiser items and bypasses the negatives of his kit while trading in on several of the strengths of the items that synergises with his abilities. And even if he did build IE/PD, you said those items are subpar, except for the fact that PD's passive is great for minimising incoming damage (Which synergises well with Windwall, fuck up the wall? Eh, auto them and take 12% less anyways) and any champion who wants to crit builds IE at some point because of how efficient it is. 3: You talked about how long it takes to charge up to his CC and listed it as 5 seconds. So if you're going to accuse me of comparing two different things, I'm going to put it back on you: His tornado doesn't take 5 seconds to charge up, there are a set of prequisites to using the cc, but the ability itself has a faster cast time and movement speed than several other skillshot CCs in the game. On top of that, there isn't a direct CD related to using the tornado apart from the fact that you just need to hit 2 q's (That'd be an interesting nerf, actually), if you can land 2 more q's, it comes up again and again has no notable cast time or windup. An example of an ability with a wind up or charge up would be Taric's Q, Jhin's W, Leona's R, Vel'Koz's E, Zyra's R and so on and so forth. There's a clear window where you can see exactly where it is aimed before it even triggers an effect, Yas's Q does not have that. To be fair, the biggest problem I have with Yasuo is that he feels overloaded with ability compared to several of the other champions. Even in winning matchups, it just doesn't feel fun to play against him throughout the game and I'm more happy that he's not doing well rather than enjoying the competitiveness of the game. Those aren't fixed by simple nerfs and number tweaks, they're kit overhaul changes, I concur, but I wouldn't be too opposed to that.
jaycer97 (EUNE)
: Yasuo has so long time to cast 3rd q only because of his ultimate. Without q he can't use ultimate, unlike other champs, who can straight press it without any problems. Its already hard to get your 3rd q while teamfighting outside the lane, then you have to decide when to cast it and you want to make duration shorter. Just because you don't like playing against him, it doesn't mean he has to be nerfed.
> [{quoted}](name=jaycer97,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2glUrVgA,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-08-03T14:15:31.872+0000) > > Yasuo has so long time to cast 3rd q only because of his ultimate. Without q he can&#x27;t use ultimate, unlike other champs, who can straight press it without any problems. Its already hard to get your 3rd q while teamfighting outside the lane, then you have to decide when to cast it and you want to make duration shorter. Just because you don&#x27;t like playing against him, it doesn&#x27;t mean he has to be nerfed. Allow me to give a you a list of champions who can get Yas the ability to use his ult: {{champion:266}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:34}} {{champion:136}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:112}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:143}} So there's 45 possible champions in the game that can proc his ult on multiple people sometimes while only requiring him to be within some form of fighting range and creates and extended CC. And then there's Gnar, who can only use his ult when he is in Mega Gnar form, has to be in melee range to use it effectively and has to hit a wall with the ability to get the most useful effect out of it. Here's the difference, Gnar can't block incoming abilities, get a shield based on movement, have a situational repositioning tool on a <1 second cooldown and an ult that generates armour pen for free.
Langhof (NA)
: So, I'm going to calmly present my counter argument and if you disagree then that's fine. We all have assholes and opinions, and usually one is bound to be shitty (god I love that joke lol). But anyways, I've noticed for a long time now that Yasuo is just THE champion to hate. Not like a fun Teemo hate, but like a "fuck you for even playing that champ" hate. And here's where it doesn't make sense to me. There are SO many champs in this game that are absolute bullshit in their own unique ways, say for example the ability of a skilled leblanc player to kill you under turret at level 3. But what absolutely kills me is the difference in response to when, for example, an lb would do that versus a yasuo. If a yasuo killed a player under turret at level 3 they would be absolutely fucking livid, going on and on about how he's a shitty player if yasuo is his best champ, or droning on and on with sarcastic "fair and balanced" statements. But if a leblanc did it? "Oh well I probably misplayed or overextended, lb is an assassin, that's just her niche." That double standard drives me fucking nuts. As a Yas main, I have never disagreed with anyone in that it's frustrating to play against a skilled yasuo player. But whenever a champion is good in league of legends, it doesn't mean players have to bitch for months on end in the forums in order to try to obtain some kind of metaphorical victory by getting others with no opinions of their own whatsoever to say "yeah, fuck yasuo." You would think people would enjoy playing a champion that is strong enough to be good with. But I guess this game is going to just be a never ending cycle of people wanting to drop the nerf hammer every time a nail pops up, aka a champion you can actually win with more than half of the time. But anyways promise I'm not salty, that's just my viewpoint from the other end of the spectrum.
> [{quoted}](name=Fade2Blue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PpAejolU,comment-id=0045,timestamp=2016-07-30T19:56:04.392+0000) > There are SO many champs in this game that are absolute bullshit in their own unique ways, say for example the ability of a skilled leblanc player to kill you under turret at level 3. But what absolutely kills me is the difference in response to when, for example, an lb would do that versus a yasuo. If a yasuo killed a player under turret at level 3 they would be absolutely fucking livid, going on and on about how he&#x27;s a shitty player if yasuo is his best champ, or droning on and on with sarcastic &quot;fair and balanced&quot; statements. But if a leblanc did it? &quot;Oh well I probably misplayed or overextended, lb is an assassin, that&#x27;s just her niche.&quot; Okay, I'll calmly present my counter argument to yours then. If LeBlanc jumps you at level 3 to try and kill you, you know she has one way in and one way out which is also not a point and click ability onto the target you're going for, she has to use a point and click ability and in most cases probably needs to land another skillshot to finish you off. There's a visible mark for where she left from and visible mark of where she will return to alongside the fact that if you survive or she makes a mistake, she probably burned a good chunk of mana to do so and can't continually keep trying it without having to back at some point. However, if Yasuo decides to jump you at level 3, he can use a path that isn't visible to an opponent (To explain this in more detail, being able to see which minions he has used to get to you and which he has not would be the way to see where he's gone), has a point and click ability to get on top of them and can cast another ability within the point and click to CC his opponent. He then can escape on a path still not visible to the opponent and can put up another ability that blocks a majority of abilities that can be sent after him including auto attacks. If he fucks up, well, just give him another few seconds and he can come back and do it again over and over again without worrying about resources. Also, when I think of what a LeBlanc has to build, it looks something like this for her to be relevant: {{item:3001}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3135}} is a build I've seen most LB's run at pretty much every level of play with some maybe including a {{item:3157}} . However, I've seen Yasuo builds that are relevant in damage and sustain that can look like this across a couple of games: {{item:3046}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3153}} {{item:3111}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3006}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3036}} {{item:3153}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3072}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3102}} {{item:3009}} {{item:3068}} The reason people hate him so much is that the wide variety of build paths he has coupled with his kit makes him frustrating to play against at all stages of the game, regardless of whether or not you have a good match-up with him.
: > [{quoted}](name=Cookimonster316,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4TOgb78p,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2016-07-28T06:56:00.560+0000) > > Wow my games must be rare because a lot of them have been close games. The vast majority of mine are not. Particularly for solo players this tends to be worse. In low elo I tend to just stomp away at a 70% or better win rate and 1v5 for the wins. Which was normal in the past as well. That's a reflection of my skill level. In mid elo (high gold through platinum) and in high elo (diamond and up) my games tend to be a stompfest still, but the quality of my teammates and opponents is so volatile that I can no longer win at that same clip (again the win rate sinking towards 50% was normal in the past as I approached my true skill level, so that aspect is unchanged). In previous seasons, starting in mid range I would start to experience more close and competitive games with my personal ability being the deciding factor more often that not and I'd still manage about a 60% win rate. In high level play in the past games were close and competitive most of the time with the rarity being a rapid series of mistakes lead to a significant and unstoppable snowball which ended in a stompfest. Now, in these ranges, the opposite is true. Most of those games are ALSO stompfests and close competitive games are very rare. This happens due to the nature of allowing such a wide skill range to party up together, with, say, a gold level player queuing up with both his silver 5 friends and his plat 1 friend. That match has become extremely low quality because the skill levels of the players involved are SOOOO dramatically different. Its gotten better for those of us in high elo lately with some of the changes, but those changes did nothing to affect the same issues in lower levels of play, which, in my opinion, is pretty unfair. But it was this disparity in skill ranges for players in a party that lead to so many of the stompfests. > What&#x27;s the point in getting mad over something you can&#x27;t change? Who said we can't change things? We have already gotten some changes... We complained so much months ago that we ended up with autofill and a limit on the number of players allowed in a premade in diamond and up level games. We complained so much that we got back team 5s after those changes were made... Failing to attempt to do what is right is the same thing as making the wrong choice. DQ has improved some. Its still not good enough. Its still not great, its still not what I or many millions of players want from our ranked experience, its still not what we would hope it could be. The wrong choice here is to say "fuck it, its as good as its gonna get". That leaves all players for ranked continuing to suffer with a less than stellar system. The correct choice is to say "Ok, things are moving forward in a better direction now, but its still not what we wanted and we still dislike things about it. Keep working on those things so we can have a good and fun game to play." That is the intention of the thread.
> [{quoted}](name=jaymc1130,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4TOgb78p,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-28T07:13:11.605+0000) > This happens due to the nature of allowing such a wide skill range to party up together, with, say, a gold level player queuing up with both his silver 5 friends and his plat 1 friend. That match has become extremely low quality because the skill levels of the players involved are SOOOO dramatically different. Except that isn't how it works at all, the rule is that every player in the game has to be within a tier of each other, you can't just stick someone in the middle and extend across three tiers. The worst possible outcome you get in your hypothetical is Gold 1 and Silver 5. While that is a significant variant, it's nowhere near the differential you suggested between Plat 1 and Silver 5. The system also tries to account for that (In much the same way the old system did when there was a differential between skill levels) by placing the other players in the game around a central level rather than just pick one extreme or the other. It's a 5v5 game, they're trying to make it play as such. Also, you're complaining about variance and stomps but then say you have accounts ranked from gold to diamond? What a stupid complaint, the problem with that is the same problem under the old system, there's someone in the game who clearly doesn't belong there stomping their lane opponent and transitioning that lead to the rest of the team, the only change in this case being that it's you and not someone else. Make arguments, explain what you want to see changed, but remember that the old system had some major issues too across a variety of areas, they're just using a new system they want to see work and are actively making changes to try and fix it.

Jayhawk

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