: THIS is what a team fight should look like....
This clip wasn't the best example as rework Caitlyn with Hurricane (before the bugfix) was bullshit in terms of damage output, however, I still do agree, it's nowhere near the degeneracy we're at now.
Moody P (NA)
: if you want build diversity why don't you look for it
I do, that's why I currently have a somewhat meta "URF Katarina" build. But here's the thing...off-meta builds are hot garbage, even if they are somewhat functional and/or meta. The only exception to this is when they get directly buffed, or when a champion gets hard nerfed into the ground like rework AP Leblanc; which forced AD Leblanc to the forefront of League. They used to be great back when Riot didn't force champions to play one way, however nowadays almost all of them are atrocious, and the most "innovative" build you're going to find is someone using a different keystone (at best).
: Except for Hashinshin being completely incompetent? Like he's just the entire boards personified and **inexplicably** at diamond. If you can find an actual video where he lists Riven's **actual** stats, go ahead and find it for me. But...all he really does is rant. I know this, you know this, literally everybody who has seen so much as 10 seconds of him knows this.
He's GM/Chall (as opposed to my Plat and your ?) and the only lane he plays is top, which is the lane Riven is most commonly played in. Also ya yeet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdGc67Bbp-4
: I wasn't aware that requesting the most basic of quality standards for discussion is somehow being philosophical. Anecdotal evidence means absolutely nothing in terms of balance. Bring actual statistics to the discussion.
Alright, well go watch Hashinshin's rants. You get to see actual stats and listen to a voice that will make you want to replace your ear drums.
: "JUST NERF HER, SHE DOES NOT NEED COMPENSATION BUFFS" This clearly means you think she also needs to be nerfed. Yet, as far as your post is concerned, **she has a literal 0% winrate, because you have proven nothing**
Why are you making this philosophical....... Alright, well my reasoning is that she's far too good once players get good with her and because I personally suck with her and yet even I can hard carry with her.
Moody P (NA)
: how many people who think build diversity sucks are actually trying to find it
What I love is when people think that by changing one minor rune that that's somehow "build diversity". I kid you not, there have been countless YouTube vids on "TOP 10 NEW WEIRD KOREAN BUILDS TO TRY OUT IN SOLO QUEUE!" and all that's changed is now they run Gathering Storm instead of Scorch. Like wow, one tiny difference is somehow build diversity.
Rioter Comments
: Everything and nothing. You posted absolutely nothing relevant to balance. For all intents and purposes, you are writing a fucking fantasy story. You never lied, but you also never said the actual truth. You made a claim without evidence.
> You made a claim without evidence. How so?
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: ,???? don't say "essentially" it isn't one period, the numbers ain't the same means the nerf isn't reverted you can say PARTIALLY reverted, but can't say they're reverting the nerf
: She's not the exact same, her old E CD was 10-6, so it's still a 33% increase on that CD, though her Q also was on 13sec and is now on 12sec... Not saying she needs those buffs in any way, but i prefer staying with facts, and saying she is the **exact same** simply is a straight lie And if they do buff her(and i'm 99% sure they will), i really prefer a partial revert on the E CD compared to the increased burst she had on PBE befor...
8Belthazor8 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=KazKaz,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JXQY91Qo,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2019-09-19T17:34:14.095+0000) > > If it was such a large nerf then why did she only continue to rise in win rate once Riven mains adapted to the changes? It didn't. You keep saying random fake things pulled out of your ass.
It did, it was 54% in masters+ before the changes, and then it jumped up to 55.4% in masters+. This is on U.GG btw. Edit: This patch she has dropped though, due to Pantheon being a hard counter to her.
Yääto (NA)
: It pisses me off so much that incorrect stat threads get upvoted due to circle jerk. Her E nerf is NOT being reverted. Her E pre-nerf was 10 seconds. It's still a 2 second nerf. 4 seconds was an insanely hard nerf in the first place anyways.
If it was such a large nerf then why did she only continue to rise in win rate once Riven mains adapted to the changes?
: I made an absurd statement based off of the exact amount of evidence OP gave us to prove a point. They're wrong, blatantly wrong, deliberately wrong, yet **correct as far as this post is concerned, because OP never bothered to prove anything in his original post**. I didn't post stats, I posted a *point*.
What did I say that was false?
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: why is no one telling OP that it isn't being reverted since it was 10-6 sec cd before the nerf and not 12-8 sec cd?
It's essentially a revert since she'll go back to the same playstyle, especially since they're also reverting the Q buff.
Rioter Comments
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hillary Chillton,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cG7AnpnU,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-09-18T16:28:05.849+0000) > > I feel like Riot needs to be bought by Amazon or google so they straighten them up. They set the standards **very low** for the biggest PC game in the world.. > Tencent needs to DIVEST. Imagine if Riot was owned by amazon or google. We would be light years ahead. Without Tencent there probably wouldn't even be League, at least not in the way we know today, let alone "light years ahead". You do know that Tencent came into the picture during the second funding round of Riot's formation and owned over 90% of the shares as early as the start of Season 1, right? Riot and League have basically always been an extension of Tencent since their inception. Not to mention, why Amazon and Google of all the companies you want Riot to be owned by? They aren't even games publishers and they both have severe issues managing their platforms. Pick someone who is more relevant at least.
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cG7AnpnU,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-09-18T16:47:35.090+0000) > > Without Tencent there probably wouldn't even be League, at least not in the way we know today, let alone "light years ahead". > > You do know that Tencent came into the picture during the second funding round of Riot's formation and owned over 90% of the shares as early as the start of Season 1, right? Riot and League have basically always been an extension of Tencent since their inception. > > Not to mention, why Amazon and Google of all the companies you want Riot to be owned by? They aren't even games publishers and they both have severe issues managing their platforms. Pick someone who is more relevant at least. Amazon and Google have issues managing their platforms? Sorry, but as someone who did research projects on both throughout uni I can safely say that is false outside of Amazon Australia, which was really just a crap launch; which still succeeded anyways because Amazon is very consumer-friendly.
xelaker (NA)
: So morde gets to get a freebie 1v1, targeted ult AND gets my teammate at the end so towers are even more paper thin? You tried to balance it with only attacking towers, but this then gives morde a worthless ghost if his team doesn't go on to win the fight. This would be awful for one side or the other in any given situation. Not to mention that slapping an adc mid game and on would give you a ghost for a long time.
He loses the stat steal, which is arguably one of the more lowkey broken elements to his ult.
: > [{quoted}](name=mack9112,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XETeEgAa,comment-id=00170000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-18T12:47:36.571+0000) > > The champions listed have clear opportunities to outplay them. > > The issue is people want to be able to approach every champion the same way so when a champion does something different they would rather complain instead of just learning how to deal with it. > I wont deny thats the case for some people on the boards but that statement is mostly false. Lets explore a few assassins and their counterplay {{champion:55}} dodge my daggers {{champion:91}} dont stand in my W {{champion:103}} dont get hit by my charm {{champion:238}} dont stand near W {{champion:246}} nothing to dodge, you're already in combo range lmao These champs arent broken (for the most part ) but they're insanely draining to play against.
Ok then, revert Katarina. I'd gladly have that happen...except you don't want that as old Kat was all about targeted abilities. I agree with the others, but please, get good and just don't complain about Kat...unless you're complaining about {{item:3146}} and/or her insane mobility, in which case, continue.
: Champion Types That Are Inherently Broken
4: {{champion:157}} An unholy abomination of everything that's unhealthy.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: CertainlyT left league btw
{{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:157}}
: Most overpowered champions of all time v2
Skarner release rework actually had a 72% win rate for the first 2 days xD
: Anyone else feel like the anniversary is going to make or break league for the next ten years?
I deadass hope people make Riot's life a living hell throughout the anniversary because clearly they do not wish to converse with the community, let alone listen to us, as they've made every single change possible to turn its players off of the game. All of Riot's changes following the assassin update have been to make the game flashier and more appealing to the general public, as they have lost all their care for the veteran players. It's time that Riot actually saw its players as the statistics they love ever so much, as they quickly realise that more players hate the game than they do love the game; or they love it so much that it pains them to see it take a nosedive into kingdom come.
Etherean (NA)
: Did you guys prefer when pyke could solo lane or do you prefer the way he is now?
I'd take Pyke mid/top over this "Press R Win game" abomination any day of the week.
: How would you guys Balance Yasuo and Pyke
{{champion:157}} : Rework his Windwall to have a charge-based system (the Windwall breaks after being hit by X number of projectiles) that increases with each level he puts into it, as well as making it spawn in front of him; not from him, and making it so that it can only block projectiles IN FRONT of the Windwall; not behind or to the side. If need be, reduce its cooldown to something reasonable. I'd also tie his passive's strength to his Windwall's rank, so that he has to choose which playstyle he wants, whether it be the high mobility high damage URF mode assassin/duelist or the tactical utility based crit carry who sponges up damage and counters projectile based teams. Also, right off the bat I'd remove the bonus armour pen. he gets from his ultimate. If he wants to shred tanks he should have to purchase armour pen. Remove the cooldown refund on his Q when he EQs (when it's at ~0.7 sec). While I do also enjoy how mechanical he is, and I abuse this technique, it has to go. These changes would likely leave him being somewhat weak, so I'd say buff his resistances by 2 each, and buffing his attack damage by 1-2 and go from there. {{champion:555}} : His stun hitbox needs to be fixed as its broken right now, like legitimately broken. Sometimes it hits you when it shouldn't, other times it just doesn't hit someone despite them being in the trail. Remove the lethality scaling for his stun's duration. Ignite disables his passive and reveals him. Or better yet, rework his passive into being something a little less ridiculous. Allow Pyke to damage minions with E again. 100% remove the bonus gold he gets from his ult, I mean like revert the buff. Everyone agrees it's ridiculous and nonsensical. On that note I'd also probably buff its base damage slightly in exchange for drastically lowering its scaling for execute range. Even while ahead Pyke is still a support, he shouldn't be dealing 1/2 of someone's HP as true damage. There are also some bugs on his ult, so I'd say fix those as well.
: AP Malphite is annoying, and im not sure how to lane against him.
Just let him go OOM in laning pha.....oh wait people don't go OOM anymore. I mean, I guess you could stack HP and Magic Resi....oh wait he deals all your HP even before you can get the opportunity to purchase either. Oh, you could just avoid his ultima-....that has an instant cast point and requires you to have at least 30 ping to react to, and even then it's tough due to its general size and the impact it has on your positioning after Flashing. You could always just abuse him when his ultimate is dow-.....annnnnd he's running Ultimate Hunter, 40% CDR AND Presence of Mind. --------------------------------------------- I guess you just die then {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}} It's not entirely AP Malph's fault though, Riot removed almost all counterplay to playing against champions that need to spend a lot of mana as they have means to infinitely sustain their mana pool, as well as damage being through the roof meaning you usually only need a single damage item to blow people up (if that), and ultimates just don't have cooldowns anymore if you run certain runes.
puśsý (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=KazKaz,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=38UQEzMa,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-09-16T04:28:55.253+0000) > > Kai'sa can go AD, crit, AP and hybrid. That's worse than a "decent amount of item diversity". > > Oh, and she's more than "a bit overpowered right now", she's an abomination who evades the nerf hammer only due to her receiving a plethora of skins each and every 2 patches. idk why you are being downvoted, kaisa has the highest item diversity.
I got downvoted by people who think that I'm even partially incorrect, and like to believe that only 2 builds are viable for Kai'sa, despite one tricks coming into the mix and proving everyone wrong.
Bârd (NA)
: Her build fluctuates a lot between patches, but she tends to be locked into the exact same build every build every patch.
Nah, atm she can go all of them.
Bârd (NA)
: Kai'sa is definitely a bit overpowered right now, but she definitely doesn't have "Too much diversity". The vast majority of the roster has an unacceptable level of item diversity. Kai'sa has a decent amount of item diversity, and honestly the target level of build diversity for practically every champion should be slightly above Kai'sa.
Kai'sa can go AD, crit, AP and hybrid. That's worse than a "decent amount of item diversity". Oh, and she's more than "a bit overpowered right now", she's an abomination who evades the nerf hammer only due to her receiving a plethora of skins each and every 2 patches.
puśsý (NA)
: Is it just me, or does build diversity suck?
It just gets worse with every rework they do. Older champions were designed with numerous builds in mind, meanwhile reworks only really have one planned build, and if they can use any other differing builds those builds are nerfed into the ground (AD Kat, AP Irelia, AD/bruiser Akali, AP Warwick, AD Mordekaiser etc). Additionally, they have been homogenizing builds every since the juggernaut update, and if you want to go even earlier, Athenes' rework. Mages used to be able to go Athene's, Abyssal, Tear/Seraph's, RoA, Deathfire Grasp, Haunting Guise, Rylai's and Zhoyna's as their first item choices. Nowadays you have 2 options as a mage, option 1, you go Luden's because it's the only way for you to remain relevant in the game (or unless your name is Viktor), and option 2, build Zhoyna's because they have a Zed/Qiyana/Yasuo/Talon/any other AD champion that is ahead and you need a way of either stalling for time or avoiding all-ins entirely. --------------------------------------- Also, since I'm a Kat main I may as well mention the champ I main in this context. Kat's build diversity got nuked, except for ONE item giving her at least SOME build diversity, being Death's Dance. Oh, and I guess Hexdrinker? But that item lowkey sucks for Kat now since you need Gunblade so much. She went from being able to go: -Abyssal Scepter -Haunting Guise -Rylai's -Luden's/Deathfire Grasp (depending on when you played) -Gunblade -Zhoyna's -Sunfire as possible first items, toooooooooo......just {{item:3146}} . Wow, incredible build diversity right there. Oh, and if that wasn't bad enough you pretty much just go Gunblade->stack magic pen+grab Zhoyna's->go Rabadons every single game. It's atrocious and whoever supports this level of simplicity in a buildpath seriously needs to receive a lecture from someone who plays this game.
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=KazKaz,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YrAtFfPE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-09-13T14:13:06.969+0000) > > Might wanna check the current tier lists :) Tier lists are PREDICTIVE.
They're not, they're based off of raw stats.
Yääto (NA)
: You obviously don't know how that combo works. The reason that one shots so well is that if done correctly, the R proc happens AFTER your WQ.
You can time it to do either.
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=KazKaz,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YrAtFfPE,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-13T07:52:17.643+0000) > > Vayne is also the same, she doesn't need buffs, she needs nerfs and/or a reduction in how overloaded her R is. She's the 3rd best ADC atm, right behind Kai'sa and Draven No she isn't. u.gg ADC role ranking says she's 11th. She's no where near 3rd best.
Might wanna check the current tier lists :)
Kelg (NA)
: Wtf is that Morde buff. It doesn't do anything and is literally a pointless change that will probably not even effect his wr at all.
It's a sizable mid-late game buff for his durability. It would be reasonable if they nerfed his damage a tiny bit or made his ult a little more fair.
: >I remember vividly back before her rework she was weaker than a lot of other ADC's late game due to her power being reserved early. No matter how vivid your memory is, it's still incorrect. She's always been good late game. Stats don't lie, and her winrate always jumped up after 40 minutes, even back as far as season 2. Her scaling has actually been hit over time. Hell, she used to have an insanely high base attack speed (it's been reduced from 0.668 to 0.568, which is a major hit to scaling), and significant armor penetration on headshots. Cait is good late and early. That has always been true, and it still is. So long as she has long range and an escape mechanic, it will continue to be true for the foreseeable future.
Nah, she was always a mid-game carry up until her rework.
Yääto (NA)
: How to tell boards have no analytical skills at all, overact to anything with personal bias and instead of adapting would rather complain about seriously MINOR details: Step 1: Riven doesn't R2 anyone at *full hp*. That R2 buff is literally just a little extra aoe dmg to anyone she hits who isn't her primary target. Well.. that's all I have really. You guys bitching about the wrong champ honestly. These buffs are very minor. If those Xin buffs go through though.. god damn.
>Riven doesn't R2 anyone at full hp. That R2 buff is literally just a little extra aoe dmg to anyone she hits who isn't her primary target. R1->E->R2->Flash->Q+W(auto) exists. I'm sorry, but she does R2 people even if it's not for the max value execute. For reference, the combo looks like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR4g7bCDGZA
: > [{quoted}](name=Gear5Luffy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AVkQUAYv,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-09-13T00:36:10.753+0000) > > Xin Zhao point and click E slows up to 70% now its a fck disgrace they would even put that shit up for testing It's rank 5 E(everyone maxed E last and 0.5 secs slow). Xin needs some love, even though every jungler is still likely going to trash him.
??? He's arguably a top 5 best jungler. In what way does he get trashed by "every jungler"? Just curious...
Neriticc (EUW)
: Rito Games get erect when they look at her that’s why she is getting a new stripper skin and buffs. 100% obvious fucking bias in this company.
She's actually really really really strong right now. As in really strong. Honestly even without these buffs she's pickable at Worlds even.
Rioter Comments
Keiaga (NA)
: Why would you build a trinity force on a melee range adc whose strength comes from auto attacking?
Because of the passives, stat distribution (mainly the 20% CDR and attack speed) and the fact that all of the items are great individually for Trynd besides Sheen (which is good for the passive and CDR in its own right). It's actually his best build on KR, and it has been for a long time now.
Keiaga (NA)
: Most other melee champs have more utility and better tools than tryndamere.
_laughs in 40% CDR_ {{item:3508}} {{item:3078}} You were saying?
mirAcIe (EUW)
: So has Evelynn's rework, but who's counting? Pre-VGU: this champion is hard to balance Post-VGU: even harder to balance {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
Yeeeeaaahhhh....this is why I would much prefer it if Riot would tone it down with the reworks and only rework champions like Taric and Yorick who actually **need** it not "need" it.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: You still have to name 1 champ that is balanced for everyone. Until you can, stop asking.
Name a champion? Well, that's quite difficult since Riot has pretty much f**ked every champion up in terms of balance. Buuuuttt, if I had to name one, gun to my head...probably pre-rework Katarina or pre-rework Garen. That is of course if "balanced" means fair and not completely overbearing. If we're talking like a purely "balanced" champ in regards to actual game balance I'd probably say Singed actually. Even when he is strong there's still lots of counterplay to him, and he's never actually weak thanks to his playstyle being both effective against players not used to it and consistent against all skill levels. Zac also comes to mind, at least right now since he's just an "ok" pick. -------------------------------------- Again, it's hard to actually name a champion that is completely balanced since Riot has either reworked them into a balance mess that removes a lot of their counterplay e.g. Katarina, Garen, Akali, Irelia, Mordekaiser etc (basically they removed point and click abilities only to give them more tools that allow them to completely nullify all counterplay, such as Katarina's spammable Shunpo and Irelia's ultimate) or they have buffed them beyond all belief (*cough* Darius *cough*).
: That's not any different from old Akali. The fact that she was impossible to peel, had all of her damage being point and click, had and a shitload of sustain meant that every time she was good she was beyond opressive and quickly got nerfed. People look at old Akali through rose-colored glasses due to how hated new one is, but her design was way, way worse.
Well in that case, why not give her another rework that might be healthy and balanced for everyone?
Rylalei (EUNE)
: You seem to want to be vague on purpose, so my question is, are you vague because you don't know how to reply or don't want to? Balanced for which "all players"? - All players that have her unlocked to the point where they can carry with her after the first 5 games? - All players who mastered her? - All players in lower elos? - All players in high elos? - All players in pro play? You see, what Riot wants to do with her right now is the 2nd one, balancing her for all players who mastered her. So by your "request", they do that, they balance her for "all players", just that those "all players" has a caviat, they need to learn to play her to be good.
I am referring to all those demographics, yes. Although that said, she becomes a real nightmare once mastered since her entire kit is unhealthy, so I suppose that demographic definitely has some more significance than the others; to which I say, you are correct in your response. However, pro players haven't really mastered her, she's just amazing in co-ordinated play thanks to her ability to counter most champions picked within pro play, especially in the top lane, where she lacks any real counterplay. That's when she gets nerfed, thus hurting those who have mastered Akali within solo queue. Outright, Akali is worse in solo queue than she is in pro play, and that's due to the nature of solo queue and the champs she has to compete with (who are currently Rambo champs thanks to damage meta), who outperform her thanks to solo queue being a chimpfest.
Sukishoo (NA)
: Reverts don't occur on VGUd champions. Their designs are meant to last longer. Yes, they have begun to rework more of the recent one, Irelia, Swain, Urgot, after their initial updates but they will not change them to their older kits. Akali for one sees a lot more nerfs right now because of Proplay and will for a few more patches most likely as were getting in to Worlds.
Kog had a revert, granted he didn't receive a VGU. However, it would be more than easy to give Akali her old kit.
: Again I don't care what random people think. Those people have been proven wrong. Also why are you acting like she is only in pro play? She has a high playrate and a very high banrate in high elo meaning she is good in soloQ. Like she is good in pro play because she is strong just like soloQ.
Jbels (NA)
: Tanks die way too quickly and have way too few options
Yeah uuuuhhhh, so, for context, whenever I play a tank with ~250 armour and 4k HP I legitimately die within the first second of fighting thanks to the absurd amount of true damage, % based damage and mixed damage. Even with both resistances being above 150 you still die in the first second or two of a fight. It's stupid.
: Nope. Again playrate,banrate and pro play just proves you wrong. It doesn't matter what these random people think since they're wrong and the numbers show that. IF SHE WAS BAD NO ONE WOULD PLAY OR BAN HER THAT IS A SIMPLE FACT.
Aight, guess I shouldn't listen to Diamond 2+ players. You must know more than they do about this champion. Also if she's only really good in pro play that also means that the rework failed as no champion should ONLY be good in pro play. When Akali is overbearing in pro play she may well be absolute trash in solo queue. That's not a good example of champion design.
: Ummm no she has not been. If she was she would see 0 pro play and not have a high playrate and no banrate. Please list me another gutted champion with 10% playrate and 50% banrate in diamond. Akali is close to the best mid right now.
She was legitimately rated as "dead" by most tier lists and players in both mid and top prior to her "mini-rework". I'd say that's pretty nerfed into the ground ;^)
: Ummmm yeah you don't understand reworks. Riot could never do this amount of changes with the old akali since she was MUCH more toxic. Also winrate means nothing akali is a strong that is a fact and being strong will get a champion nerfed. Yorick is a pretty bad rework because he is in basically the same spot was before and akali is not. Akali has more counter play, take skill and can be changed. If akali was actually a problem riot would of nerfed her into the ground and no one would play her.
She has been getting nerfed into the ground......
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KazKaz

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