Quepha (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ninjaroxas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=caUyt822,comment-id=000600000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-26T20:24:57.681+0000) > > should they have treated malz as a support when people played him as one? They DID treat him as a support until it became apparent that his kit was toxic in the bot lane. Zyra however has a kit that is healthy in the bot lane and is also simply better as a support than it is as a mid laner. Without significantly reworking how she plays (along the line of making her plants deal virtually zero damage), she'll never be as good as a mid laner as she is as a support.
>Zyra however has a kit that is healthy in the bot lane You're actually trolling right?
: Void Staff >>>> LW upgrades. Also, magic pen available on boots is much easier to itemize than a low gold-efficiency lethality tem
Really? As a tank player I can tell you that in almost all cases I don't give a fuck about Voidstaff. A mage with Voidstaff still isn't ever going to burst me down, I'd have to misplay massively to get killed by them. LW is a completely different animal. If an ADC or even someone like Riven gets one it feels like all of my bulk is completely fucking worthless.
FilDaFunk (EUW)
: You guys already got Tank items nerfed, don't start complaining about supp items, pls.
Some support items legit do need nerfs, the one that stands out to me is Knight's Vow, which gives better stats than DMP or Sunfire for 600 gold less, it has 25 less HP for 10% CDR. That's not to say the the overall solution is to nerf support items, KV is an outlier and needs work but most of them are actually OK. The only other thing that's really out of line is the Locket/Stoneplate interaction, which just needs to go. The problem is that tank items are just pathetic. There's no reason why Sunfire, Adaptive, DMP, Rands, Warmogs, FH, Thornmail, Mercs and ZZ'rots shouldn't be buffed so that if I as a tank actually invest gold into my items I can become more tanky than a support who buys items at just over 2k gold.
: For characters that were hit hard by not being able to deal enough dmg, maybe reduce their damaging ability cooldowns? Or introduce an item that provides champs with the CD reduction part of Taric's passive. If a tank is staying alive longer, being able to 1.5 rotation of spells could help
Or just revert Sunfire so it's not complete garbage.
: Is it just me or is every top, support, and jungle building knights vow
Knight's Vow is basically just a cheaper DMP. {{item:3742}} : 2900 gold, 60 Armour, 425 HP, passive that gives MS {{item:3109}} : 2300 gold, 60 Armour, 400 HP, 10% CDR, passive that gives MS and helps save your ADC. Of course tops, supports and mids are buying it, DMP's already a good item. Make DMP 600 gold less and give it ally protection and it's completely busted.
DaNinad (NA)
: Your mains q and r cooldowns and levels learned have been switched
{{champion:113}} Pretty much 100% a top laner, insanely strong early poke and AoE waveclear. Basically imagine Galio if his Q was the size of a lane and stunned you. {{champion:39}} It's something I guess. Really strong at level 6 as long as you never fuck up a CS. {{champion:84}} Rank dash>E, spam dash and E, win every lane {{champion:22}} Her Q actually has no CD. So she legit would have as many Arrows as she has mana for as quick as she wants {{champion:134}} R>R>R>R>R>R
: This ADC meta is actually fun, it's like in season 2
The problem is that even focusing the correct person doesn't always work currently. With DD, PD, Locket, Knights Vow, Redemption and Tabi you can be hard focusing an ADC and they can live through it and just win anyway. The game has devolved into the ADC being the tank.
: Wait, wouldn't it be more like 66% Damage Resistance (assuming your support is nearby)? Also how does that translate to Effective Health since Randuins and Adaptive Helm also give health?
You ask for the math then downvote the math. Those are the numbers for a 70 armour ADC and a 120 armour ADC. You asked for math, you got it, it doesn't agree with you.
: Show the math.
You get about 42% DR from 70 armour, so that means with this combination you get 1-(0.588x0.7x.0.88x0.88)=68.125% DR. That's the equivalent to a 213 armour tank with a conservative initial armour value. It's also better because most of this DR can't be penned through. If you start with 120, which is a fair number for a GA ADC then you have the equivalent resists to a 306 armour tank. There's your math bro, it's fucking bullshit.
: Actually, Death's Dance changes 30% of all damage to true damage DOT, not physical damage DOT. Therefore, in theory, while Death's Dance does defer damage, if that person doesn't do physical damage to negate the damage done to them, they are worse off than if they had taken 100% of the damage up front (because true damage would ignore their resistances). In actuality--and the reason so many people consider Death's Dance to effectively be a damage reduction item--is because the ADC who buys this will almost always be doing physical damage, which means that usually most of the 30% true damage DOT is negated by Death's Dance's life steal. Either that, or it gives additional time for a support with a heal/shield/item active to protect the ADC from the DOT (as opposed to them being blown up right away).
DD deals true damage based on the damage you receive, IE it's already been reduced by your armour or MR.
: Marksmen are just too reliable
They're also currently insanely overpowered. It's not just reliability/unreliability, they're also numberswise bonkers. Riot buffed so many ADC items in the mid season, probably because of that dumbarse "ADC in 2017" meme while nerfing armour into the ground. Then they reworked support items aimed at protecting and buffing ADCs and made them busted. Is it really a surprise that the class is overpowered right now?
: For any that want to see the original image. http://i.imgur.com/wMfxXFi.jpg Mmm, that J4 package...
Better version http://i.imgur.com/fdycp.jpg
: Huh. I thought Galio had a solid Aussie accent
Na, he doesn't even sound remotely Australian https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuRrp83jCuQ This is what an Australian accent sounds like, it inflexes upwards (becomes slightly more highpitch) at the end of the word. If you listen to Galio's accent it inflexes downwards, which is far more typical of English and especially London accents. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYcAaWuaS4s Galio's voice sounds a lot like Boris Johnson to me.
Sw4g3tti (EUNE)
: We need more champions with accents
What about {{champion:3}} and his amazing London Chav accent?
: {{champion:51}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:115}} ({{champion:203}} {{champion:76}}) Yeah, mobility on a long ranged carry, **unheard of!** Edit: One might be interested in a fact that I support the immobile version of the rework. PSYCHE
Out of those the only hyper carry is Tristana, and compared to Azir her range is much smaller and she is far less safe with lower damages and a shorter dash range anyway. The fact that this is the list you could produce proves my argument. Ezreal's a hypercarry, really? He has the lowest sustained damage of any ADC in the game, he's the exact opposite of a hypercarry.
dengeniul (EUW)
: Meanwhile, in Azir's dev thread...
The shuffle doesn't belong on the kit of a longranged hypercarry. Azir ever having mobility was a huge mistake. He has to lose not just the shuffle but the entire E if his kit is ever to be balancable. Not removing it will just leave him in the exact same spot as he is now.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 20
>We'll also be removing the XP inhib towers give at present in an upcoming patch. We removed most tower XP a while back, but looks like we missed that specific case. It's not a major impact, but it's a bit of extra snowball, that won't be appreciated or played around, in a situation where one team's already getting themselves into a powerful position (they've taken an inhib tower). Snowball's got its place, good play should increase your chance of winning after all, but we still want it to be at the appropriate levels, clear, satisfying etc. On this end don't you think snowball's a little excessive in general this season? It feels like every single game is completely decided by 10 minutes and then it's just another 15-20 minutes until the team that's already won can end the game. This is also reflected in popular champions quite heavily, dominant early picks such as Lee Sin, Elise, Kha'zix, Draven, Cait, Lucian, Thresh and Blitz seem like they're in pretty much every game. The addition of the new Rift Herald also didn't help at all with this. A winning team can easily grab herald and shove an enemy team back multiple towers. I've even seen Rift Herald crack inhibitors at 14 minutes. Quite frankly S7 feels far too snowbally and far too fast in terms of game pace.
Pyro (EUNE)
: Riot wants to rework assassin items - what would you want to change?
Probably not a particularly popular opinion but I think the specific itemisation options for assassins should be more limited than other classes, I don't think it was bad for the class when their option was ghostblade. I'm obviously mostly talking about AD assassins here, AP assassins just build up AP items and do fine with those so they're far less in need of specific itemisation. The reason why I say this is that pretty much every AD assassin already spikes in the early-mid game with a fairly significant late game dropoff. Because of this AD assassins have historically stacked stat heavy items or just stats, there was a point in time where AD assassins built Brutaliser>BF Sword as a core. The thing is that with this heavy early-mid spike there has to be a dropoff later to compensate and when assassins have had strong specific itemisation, be that lethality of BC builds the dropoff just doesn't occur. I think adding more AD assassin items was a flawed philosophy. They don't need 3 dedicated items, what they need is for Ghostblade, Duskblade or something like to be a solid rush for them without said item being abusable on ADCs. After that their build probably should feel like trying to put together the best of bad options to try to hold off their impending irrelevance. That's what a class that's meant to fall off after a midgame spike should be like.
: Will there be a hide and seek gamemode?
>However, there is also an issue, and that is the unbalanced team size. Swapping teams is not an option like for Nexus Siege, because there are more hiders than seekers, and also because it would take 80 minutes. Leaving it as is might end up with people leaving when they don't get there preferred role, which happened all the time before. The only solution I can think of is just to adopt the custom game system rather than having matchmaking; this way, when people leave, at least you don't have to wait for another champ select. Drop the number of hiders down to 4, have 15 minutes of seeking with a point system rather than lives and play 3 rounds. Seekers who get the most points win.
Sw4g3tti (EUNE)
: So assassins are not allowed to 1-shot but marksmen are?
{{champion:104}} Tankier than assassins, more burst than assassins, ranged, takes zero damage in jungle. If ever there were a champ who deserves the S2 Eve treatment.
: Isn't this post about how unfun it is to fight against them?
It's also just that they're far worse to play as since the rework, especially Sejuani. All of Sejuani's power is concentrated into her E and passive and it just feels garbage to play compared to old Sejuani. I don't think it's particularly fun to play against either, so I fail to see how this rework could ever be considered a success by any metric.
Yoùnkaì (EUW)
: PSA : Stop asking the toplaner to ward your buff, the first ward in toplane is the most important thing for the laner, ty.
Your warding trinket has a 2 minute CD. If you buy it as early as you can it will be off CD at around 2 minutes into the game. Early enough for you to get down your first ward considering most jungle paths take around a minute minimum anyway.
: where exactly did you see this? cuz i just went deep deep down in my history of posts and never saw what you said lying aint good you say kappa
>where exactly did you see this? This would be the best example I can remember. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/zmcOcENd-i-prefer-single-champion-updates-like-reksaishyvanaetc-to-class-updates?comment=002a0003000000000000
: I don't need an excuse to ban your champ. I can ban a champ simply because I don't feel like the team would synergism well with them. And that's acceptable!
And I can look you up on OPgg, see that you're a Nami main and lock Nami top or jungle because you were being an arsehole. I don't even hesitate to do this if someone bans out my champ, if they're not willing to dodge I'm completely OK with sacrificing 16 LP to ruin a game for someone who was being an arse in champ select.
: Our game is all about conflict - it's the core of competitive gaming! We are excited to see how the community responds to this event. I'd love to see more 'vs' narratives in the future.
I can only imagine that having the missions tech set up makes this about 15x easier as well.
: Last time I checked Riot was done doing roster updates.
And thank fucking god for that. Abysmal failure after abysmal failure. I'm happy that I won't have to see anymore champions ruined by Riot's class destruction.
: Is it possible to simply buff or nerf a champion instead of reworking them nowadays?
All Sejuani needed was small buffs. All Maokai needed was small nerfs. Zac didn't even need anything. This is why the tank rework failed, Riot made a very poor choice of champions and it ended up feeling a lot like change for the sake of change.
: Hmm. That's an interesting perspective, because I had the opposite reaction. I realized that 10 bans gives the balance team good incentive to look at champs that are frustrating to play against. I share the opinion with many that Yasuo is NOT overpowered. I do, though, admit that he isn't fun for the opponent at all. If that's what has to happen to make it a priority... oh well. Now we have 10 bans, so any champion in that boat will move up the priority list. To me, that sounds like "problem solved." There's two sides to every coin, I suppose.
>I realized that 10 bans gives the balance team good incentive to look at champs that are frustrating to play against. I share the opinion with many that Yasuo is NOT overpowered. I do, though, admit that he isn't fun for the opponent at all. So he's Yorick? You realise that this statement 100% describes old Yorick? Maybe that's an indication of how Yasuo should be treated, he's an example of the worst design in League and like Yorick before him he should be gutted and left purposefully weak until he can be reworked.
kasfas (NA)
: No I completely understand that different champions have different needs for itemization, and IBG/TriF might be what sejuani needs. But the build I've been using gives everything that I need with hp and the rest, plus titanic is a really good duelling item too especially on sion.
As I said, I like Righteous Glory, I think it's a heavily overstated item right now, I think it's probably a better HP/Armour item than Rand's right now. I think I'll probably start building it more, especially into heavy AD. I do like Titanic as well, just later on. It's great as a 5th or 6th item, it's just hard to slot into a build early.
kasfas (NA)
: I've been going Righteous glory into titanic. It's not too bad, RG gives everything but wave clear and mr but some tanks already have waveclear and you can get mr from mercs treads. Titanic is good for duels and quickly pushing lane so you can roam more. Then I go full tank. I think if I was a better player this build would be working more, but I suck too much to have it go my way.
I don't mind RG rush to be honest. It's certainly far from a bad choice. I just find Triforce rush too good to pass up on Sejuani specifically. I get two procs off in every trade anyway, W procs the MS on Phage and the AS makes stuns far easier, so the specific synergy is really good.
: Yes, but the entire fucking role was just updated. Tanks have had issues with farming since they were created. That's why, shocker, so many tanks cannot lane. You know how many tanks actually exist in top? Less than 10 at any given time, usually the number is closer to 5. You know how many tanks can't top? {{champion:32}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:412}} That's been the standard for ages. Now, what changed in the MYTU? Well, we had Sunfire Cape absolutely gutted. This item was part of the reason tanks could go top lane, because it allowed them to keep up pressure, to split push effectively, and to farm without really dying too quickly. Now, every single tank item in the game has been changed. Most of them give less health. Most of them are less effective as a rush item. Spirit Visage has been gutted as well, by the way. Top lane is a lane full of duelists. Your one item spike MATTERS. The goal of the update was to reduce the power of a tank's one-item spike. They cannot. CANNOT. Function in the top lane without this, which is why Riot had to buff like three tanks a few patches ago, because people who are insistent on playing tanks in the top lane still are losing. Badly.
Sejuani, Gragas, Skarner and Zac are all completely playable top. Rammus, Amumu, Nunu and Taric can also be made to work. I've been playing Sejuani 80% top since the rework. It's better than Sejuani jungle and she has a 1 item spike, be that from buying IBG or Triforce as I do. >This item was part of the reason tanks could go top lane, because it allowed them to keep up pressure, to split push effectively, and to farm without really dying too quickly. And now tanks are subing it out for IBG as a rush. It does effectively the same thing, you get an AoE as well as CDR and mana so you can spam waveclear spells. >Spirit Visage has been gutted as well, by the way. In what world? SV is an amazing item. If you have healing on your kit it's even more powerful than it was before, if not then Abyssal exists and almost every tank can use it. >Top lane is a lane full of duelists. Your one item spike MATTERS. IBG. It's a 1 item spike. It's good enough to deal with most AD tops. AP tops tend to struggle with tanks anyway since they can just go Cowl and ignore them.
Ralanr (NA)
: That's probably why I'm hating the item. I hate having items with actives and would rather focus on my 4 abilities rather than getting 1 or 2 extra abilities with ult level cooldowns.
You hate it because you're mostly playing a top lane tank. It's just not that great of an item if you're not frequently surrounded by 3+ enemies. Since you're top lane you need to split and waveclear, especially as Sion who has long range engage even without TP. There's just better items when you're in this case.
: No, tanks shouldn't be able to split push at all. The fact that Shen can split push so well is part of the reason he's such a headache to balance. Tanks should always be with the team, always team fighting. They shine in that regard, and they should be bad at taking objectives because that's the benefit of running a juggernaut or a diver who builds AD over a tank. Tanks do not belong in top lane. Riot does not need to fix this, they've already changed the itemization to fit the role. What needs to happen is players need to adapt and change their champion pools. Tanks should just naturally move away from top lane because they do not fit the role of a top laner in the meta and lack the itemization for it. They should only be junglers and supports.
>Tanks do not belong in top lane That's the stupidest thing I've read today. Thanks for that. Toplane tanks have literally always been a thing. Malphite has been played in the toplane as long as I've played LoL (and that's quite a long time), even in S2 when the majority of tanks went jungle and it was mostly bruisers in the toplane there were still tanks like Malphite and Cho'gath who were often toplaners. You're not just asking players to adapt their pool by removing tank tops, you're killing off an entire style of play that's existed as long as League itself. The game would certainly be worse for it.
: When there's not 3+ enemies around it's just bad...but when there's not 3+ enemies around you don't really have a need for a tank. Tanks aren't duelists, you don't need a tank to win a 2v1 or a 1v2. A good 5v5 brawl, that's when tanks should and do shine.
>When there's not 3+ enemies around it's just bad...but when there's not 3+ enemies around you don't really have a need for a tank. When you're a top lane tank or Galio mid the fact that it's only 40 armour and MR is very relevant. You need to be able to split and at least hold your own VS a single target so you can make use of your TP. These are the tanks who are truly hurting for itemisation anyway, from the support or jungle role you can just go Locket/Stoneplate and drop 2K AoE shields, that's fine for those roles. It doesn't fly top lane though, you can't buy those items because you need some 1v1 power. The main people who'd look at a Rand's like that would be top laners anyway. They just get more gold, so they actually can invest into a huge item. It would only be tops and incredibly snowballed junglers who'd want a 3.3k tank item.
: Enjoy playing tanks? Lol, forget about gaining LP.
I've resorted to basically playing Sejuani as a bruiser. Tank items are just horrible right now, you need some to not be destroyed, but the more tank items you can replace with things like Triforce/Titanic/Gauge and get away with the better.
: > [{quoted}](name=LankPants,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rA0LEmKR,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-16T13:10:15.611+0000) > > Go full ham and increase it to 3300 gold, build path {{item:1029}} {{item:3082}} {{item:1011}} + 1000 gold, 500 HP, 60 armour, same passives+active. > > Give tanks a big item they can itemise for if they snowball and a true lategame item. Their lategame item with actives and passives is {{item:3193}} .
It's not really a late game item though. It's only a 2500 gold item, it's passive is very limited in terms of time span and when there's not 3+ enemies around it's just bad. It's pretty firmly a midgame item just like every other tank item in the game, certainly far more so than Rand's in the range I'm suggesting.
: Increse Randuin's Omen to 3000 gold
Go full ham and increase it to 3300 gold, build path {{item:1029}} {{item:3082}} {{item:1011}} + 1000 gold, 500 HP, 60 armour, same passives+active. Give tanks a big item they can itemise for if they snowball and a true lategame item.
: To be fair, Sej lost horribly in all regions except one. So it was never really a competition. Because if people wanted the 'righteous' side they choose Ashe, then all the people who like villainous, brutish or cruel people picked Liss because she was more ~~Aatrox~~ typical anime villain than Sej. If there was no Liss, Sej might have done very well.
: Horde vs Alliance, Jedi vs Sith, Lissandra vs Ashe. Calling it now, Yasuo wins
I think Yasuo will lose purely off the fact that he's Yasuo. Fuck that guy.
: Don't they still take d shield?
I really doubt it. You get more sustain from almost any other start now. Considering it takes D-shield 2 minutes to regen a potion with your passive I don't see a reason to buy it on anyone now when there's options for potion heavy starts with real buildpaths.
: Which champions with mana (besides adc) took d shield anyway?
Bruisers like Fiora, Irelia and Jax often did. It was an option for tanks too, especially those with weaker AP scalings who benefited less from D-Ring like Poppy, J4 and Sejuani top. Also anyone who's VS a Jayce or Kennen.
: Support is too Gold-inefficient to be the team's only tank.
I'd agree with you on any other patch, but right now this just isn't true. Support tank items are straight up on-par with full tank items right now. They're absurd in their gold efficiency. You get a Locket and a Gargoyle's, which although not a true support tank item is in a price range that support tanks like on any champion and you're a mega tank who makes their team also mega tanks. In the game at current you can get away with a support as a true tank.
: > [{quoted}](name=LankPants,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FafJR8Uk,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-06-15T11:04:37.173+0000) > > D-Shield is trash this patch. -150 HP is too much of a nerf. > > You get more durability and sustain with cloth+4 and it builds smother anyway. I don't think D-Shield is good on any champion post 7.12, you may see it on stuff like Zac top or Rumble who have literally no other defensive option, but I even think starts like Boots+4, Cloth+4 and Rejuv2+4 will be better starts. No it's not trash
You can't just take an entire potion off of a start and expect it to stay good. That's 150 HP at least, masteries can increase that up to 166. That's just a huge loss of HP, most of what made that start good was how much HP regen you got, now just don't get enough HP regen to outclass over regen heavy starts. I can't think of a reason you'd ever start D-Shield over Corrupting Potion on a champion with mana. VS AD D-Shield+1 is always going to be worse than Cloth+4. I think Rejuv2+4 or Cloth+Rejuv+1 are competitive with D-Shield if not a little better now and when starts like these with good build options are competing with a Doran's item there is no reason to ever build the Doran's item. I'm never buying D-Shield at 450, it's back exactly where it was before its changes.
Tragulon (NA)
: Akali then buys the new {{item:1054}} to survive Pantheon early.
D-Shield is trash this patch. -150 HP is too much of a nerf. You get more durability and sustain with cloth+4 and it builds smother anyway. I don't think D-Shield is good on any champion post 7.12, you may see it on stuff like Zac top or Rumble who have literally no other defensive option, but I even think starts like Boots+4, Cloth+4 and Rejuv2+4 will be better starts.
: ummm https://i.imgflip.com/1qwpmk.jpg I've not yet seen a meta where Sion isn't a support (of course I mean post-rework)
Thresh pickrate, 39.55% Blitz pickrate, 22.74% Sion pickrate, 0.69% There's more to being meta than having a high winrate.
: I mean, if you looked at the collective winrate of all marksman, since they are only played bot lane for your selection, there winrate collective HAS to be 50%
It would (approximately, Ziggs and Mord bot are still things) if you multiplied the winrates by the playrates and divided by the average playrate to normalise for playrate.
: Recent Syndra Nerf was enough to drop her out of competitive play.
That's because that Syndra nerf was fucking giant. There's a reason why Riot rarely touches AoE sizes, small changes have huge impacts. In fact they did this exact same change to Syndra's E before and it destroyed her that time as well.
Doozku (NA)
: I was making a scenario. I wasn't actually talking about old sej. > which is that old Sej wasn't complete cancer to have in the game. subjective. > That makes no sense. Of course I hate old Rengar because of my past experience with him, it was bullshit. Which is why he can't have any changes for the better?
>subjective. It's actually not so much. Reddit did a Survivor competition which accidentally surveyed people on the champs they hated playing against the least. Sejuani reached about 8th place and based on number of votes would have been second behind only Braum if she didn't have her rework. Most people didn't mind playing VS old Sej. >Which is why he can't have any changes for the better? I'm not arguing that, I do think Rengar needs changes to his kit soon. I'm arguing that reverts to Rengar will almost never be changes for the better. On the contrary I don't think very many people would argue that trading some of Sej's burst for a bit more DPS (a partial revert) would be a bad thing.
Doozku (NA)
: I mean i'm not saying that he needs exactly the old kit, but a rework that makes him less clunky to play. Just hating him because of your past experiences is selfish. Its like if Sej got another rework, that is even less fun to play, and got gutted into the ground, but then I said that I found old Sej annoying and therefore she should not get another rework or change to make her better or any similar to the old Sej.
There's one big difference between Sejuani and Rengar, which is that old Sej wasn't complete cancer to have in the game. >Just hating him because of your past experiences is selfish. That makes no sense. Of course I hate old Rengar because of my past experience with him, it was bullshit.
Doozku (NA)
: New Rengar feels better to play against because he's weak as shit rn. Remember when he was really op on release? I'm sure you would have hated playing against him then.
Old Rengar was weak before his rework and was still complete cancer. I'd take OP release new Rengar over old Rengar when he was OP and gutted new Rengar over gutted old Rengar. The new kit is just fairer to play around, which is why Rengar mains hate it.
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LankPants

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