Kelg (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=SuicidePlank,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlEfcUsm,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-28T16:51:28.750+0000) > > Well I would believe that, if my Botlane was as good as theirs. > Fuck, I would play Tanks more often, if I could rely on other people and them pulling their weight. Tanks would be worth a damn if everything didn't just tear through armor. I literally built 3 armor items as Mordekaiser and was getting assassinated by a Talon in less than 2 seconds(we were both at full build). Only time I could kill him was if I ulted. This shouldn't be happening.
> [{quoted}](name=Kelg,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlEfcUsm,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-28T16:56:00.411+0000) > > Tanks would be worth a damn if everything didn't just tear through armor. I literally built 3 armor items as Mordekaiser and was getting assassinated by a Talon in less than 2 seconds(we were both at full build). Only time I could kill him was if I ulted. This shouldn't be happening. Played Talon into Malphite He rushed frozen heart Even when I was 5/0, my w q didnt even break his passive.
: Garen and darius both have innate armor shred / ignore and magic damage / true damage ults… Not to mention trinity synergizes amazingly with their q / w respectively (that and the attack speed helps darius stack his passive) If tanks came back into the meta or their q / w was nerfed then they would 100% go back to black cleaver. The real question is why do YOU think darius and garen switched to trinity -.- Because {{champion:238}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:14}}{{champion:59}} are all doing JUST FINE with black cleaver, even against a team full of squishies
> [{quoted}](name=Tahminatrix ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qm4E3UiM,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-03T01:26:19.148+0000) > > Garen and darius both have innate armor shred / ignore and magic damage / true damage ults… > > Not to mention trinity synergizes amazingly with their q / w respectively (that and the attack speed helps darius stack his passive) > > If tanks came back into the meta or their q / w was nerfed then they would 100% go back to black cleaver. > > > > The real question is why do YOU think darius and garen switched to trinity -.- > > > Because {{champion:238}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:14}}{{champion:59}} are all doing JUST FINE with black cleaver, even against a team full of squishies But half of them don't build black cleaver?
: I love how enchanter supports play, but they are so weak that I am forced to play exclusively AP supports like Lux, Vel and even Annie. I would rather have the ability to Support well AND Carry the team instead of just being nearly powerless and losing the game if my ADC is not better than the enemy ADC. Basically, you should only play enchanter supports if you know the person who is going to play ADC and that person is good. Its stupid. Enchanter Supports should be able to make game changing plays as well instead of giving minor buffs to the ADC. Soraka is basically the exception because of how strong and game-changing her healing can be.
> [{quoted}](name=Lystrates,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPniWAsV,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2019-05-03T12:00:38.171+0000) > > I love how enchanter supports play, but they are so weak that I am forced to play exclusively AP supports like Lux, Vel and even Annie. > > I would rather have the ability to Support well AND Carry the team instead of just being nearly powerless and losing the game if my ADC is not better than the enemy ADC. > > Basically, you should only play enchanter supports if you know the person who is going to play ADC and that person is good. Its stupid. Enchanter Supports should be able to make game changing plays as well instead of giving minor buffs to the ADC. > > Soraka is basically the exception because of how strong and game-changing her healing can be. Out of all the S tier supports, of which there are 7. 1 is an ap support (lux) 1 is a tank support (nautilus) 5 are enchanter supports (sona, nami, morgana, janna, soraka). Enchanter supports arent weak at the moment.
: > [{quoted}](name=Craft Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZEFL8ofI,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-20T14:01:35.326+0000) > > They peel adcs so they do the autos for them. You don't need to duel enemies in this game. Peel? Oh 0.5 stun is strong enough to peel? Flash news dude, not every mage has the cc potential of lissandra. Xerath, vel, viktor, karthus and vlad lack or have low (or unreliable) hard cc.
Half of those have 1.5 second or longer hard cc, and the others have abilities that make up for lack of cds. Karthus has q, vlad has q e.
: Disagree though. Talon is a more braindead Zed when it comes to landing his damage. Only thing harder is his E CDs.
But landing his damage is the only thing talon is easier with. Farming: Zed has passive for last hits and q for ranged farming. Talon has a melee q that costs mana. Teamfighting: Just ult enemy adc, kill them and get out. Talon has to optimise placement of w and r, while getting as many passive procs as he can. Roaming: Not much vs E placement
: An attempt at a civilized discussion about Morgana
Rioter Comments
Swarmer (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=LeBlanc Rose,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EPAP9GPm,comment-id=001a000000000001,timestamp=2019-03-23T08:15:32.651+0000) > > Just because you get it in customs with 9 people trying to give him the most gold and items in 15 mins doesn't mean it can occur in a regular game. you mean evey single ranked game, where the tanks with 2 items 1shot everyone with 4-5 items ?
Please, show me a clip where the 2 item darius oneshots a 5 item adc. I dont even care if its a crit build, just show me please
: No joke, when is Urgot seriously gonna get nerfed?
Tomorrow, apparently. Disdain (E): Cooldown increased to 16/15.5/15/14.5/14 seconds from 14 seconds at all ranks. Mana cost increased to 60/70/80/90/100 from 50/60/70/80/90. Fear Beyond Death (R): Damage decreased to 100/225/350 from 125/250/375.
: no, in 8.4-8.5 there were at least 8 viable botlane champions competetivley. in general there is 3-4 in the jungle, and its been that way for almost 3 years. The only time jungle seemed okay was in 8.3 pre scuttle, where a lost of champs could play jg and gank at 3 dude to camp buff camp clear, however, they generally were constrained to mere warding as tackers knife still existed and ganking was practically impossible once the other jg got one.
At the moment, there are 9 S tier junglers. This list includes tanks, divers, assassins, hypercarries, and bruisers. Another 11 champions are in A tier, featuring mages, duelists, supports, and adcs as well.
Infernape (EUW)
: A juggernaut is a fighter. {{champion:122}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:86}} are examples of juggernauts. They are durable (not as durable as an actual tank but are *intended* to deal damage but have little to no CC. These are tanks. {{champion:98}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:111}} They have low damage, but high amounts of CC and utility.
Juggernauts also have no mobility apart from speed boosts such as garen q, udyr e, skarner w. Only exception I can think of is urgot e, shyvana r, and the mini dashes of aatrox e and illaoi w.
Swarmer (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Infernape,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EPAP9GPm,comment-id=001a0000,timestamp=2019-03-22T11:23:18.612+0000) > > Tanks or _**juggernauts**_ there's a difference between the two. Juggernaut is a tank, since it still builds only tank items, has 3k + hp, has 200+ armor and mr, and deals 2k+ damage with 1 skill at 15th min.
Just because you get it in customs with 9 people trying to give him the most gold and items in 15 mins doesn't mean it can occur in a regular game.
: AP dont also give you more dmg on your auto except if you get a shen or lichbane unlike an AD item. So most of the AP Burst and Assassin are also on cd when they use their ability unlike any AD item which can also crit and get even more empower from their item.
{{item:3285}} would like to know your location. Plus, while ad assassins may deal more damage with aas than ap assassins, their combos arent often ranged, or with the massive long range initiation of other ap assassins.
Alüe (NA)
: I'm sorry but the majority of mages, outside of your assassins are immobile. Given how the majority of AD champions work its not like its impossible to close the distance. Extreme example here but you expect a mage like {{champion:115}} or {{champion:161}} to out burst someone like {{champion:157}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:222}} <--- all have MS increase btw.
Yes, jinx getting a kill happens all the time during lane trades and seiges.
: > [{quoted}](name=Spankin Rankin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tyzqEhHE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-03-19T17:43:29.789+0000) > > What is point and click burst on talon? The blades on his ultimate converge on a target you Q or auto attack, which are point and click.
Yet if you walk a decent bit while he does that you can dodge it. Literally aatrox e or vayne tumble, or even enough movement speed and you can dodge it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Aarron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EYNhMcWk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-20T23:49:29.463+0000) > > But I thought mages were being oppressed by the big bad AD assassins mid? > How can magic pen be a problem? > Gameplay would never lie to me Because you won't have void staff in the time you're dealing with nullifying orb and hexdrinker. I mean, get a fucking clue. How fair is it on Ekko/Fizz/Katarina when some braindead Zed not only gets an R to juke away all your main damage moves and 2 potent shields to negate your burst while you only get a stasis that completely immobilizes you and just means that by the time the stasis comes off Zed has his 3 Q's and E ready for a stationary target. AD assassin itemization is far superior to AP assassin itemization.
Didnt know that zed's fucking q and e were items. Seriously, how does 1 second of invulnerability while not doing anything be so much better than 2.5 seconds of invulnerability while not doing anything? Its not like the former allows your to completely ignore someones entire combo, while the second can. Plus, it isnt like the three champions you mentioned all have ways to get out of zeds tripleqe combo instantly, with ekko ult, katarina e, fizz e.
: > [{quoted}](name=The bad Yasuo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EYNhMcWk,comment-id=0000000000020001,timestamp=2019-03-21T03:41:53.353+0000) > > Thats not even trye. Flat magic pen is 1:1 ratio while lethality is 1:<1. If you hover Lethality on serated dirk it says " 10 lethality (currently negating 7 armor) " Lethality scales throughout the game as you gain levels and ends up being higher than 1.
: Just did a bunch of high elo (D1+) duoing with a Talon main. Not a single game did he not pop off. I personally don't see the "weak" situations.
Do you think that a pantheon doing well in the early game is something rare?
: Incoming assassin mains who want resistance stats removes from them game.
Meanwhile I get 2 mr shard on nearly all melee mids.
: Morgana mid is viable for once in **_five years_** but OH WE CAN'T HAVE THAT! Unbelievable. Unwarranted nerf.
Remember around 4 years ago, when skarner got reworked and was viable again? Did he not deserve nerfs then, as he was suddenly viable again and to do that would be unfair to the champion?
: Can't say since I haven't played mid Morg for about 6-7 years, but reliably getting 80%+ of creeps by W'ing is hard to do unless fed, which is hard to do since her kill potential is almost non-existent. She isn't S2(?) Morde insta-deleting waves w/ E Q. It is cool to have high risk-reward champs, but low risk-reward champs are also cool. Morg is immobile. Her waveclear is safe, but glacial. You're mid, prime real-estate, punish her with a roamer with decent waveclear. (Twisted Fate, Ahri, Talon, Panth, Nocturne...)
Talon, panth, noc are bad examples. Playing against morg mid as a melee makes me want to blow my brains out.
: Thats helpful. and you can just move off it. Torment mostly helps with farming, and if enemy champ has just slivers of health left and they attack into me then I can punish. If they turn around and run away, shes so slow I can't chase, plus the Q ability has a very limited range so I cant lock you down. Its a wonder I can even get a kill... I mostly get assists.
That it helps with farming is the issue. She presses w from max wave and clears the wave faster than anivia ult, the whole reason the champ is picked.
: > [{quoted}](name=LeBlanc Rose,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xiymV4Mm,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-03T09:26:21.385+0000) > > Because forbid someone itemizes to cover their weaknesses... If only my Talon could itemize to not blow up in 3 seconds in a TF and still have damage to kill an ADC with GA and tabis and shojins in one ult rotation.
I sure love having so much gold I can afford to spend it on fucking shojins. And I thought triforce was excessive. Seriously, if I'm that fucking fed I should be able to build whatever I want and kill someone.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wadu Hek Man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xiymV4Mm,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-03-03T01:20:17.557+0000) > > Fuck yeah lets give Darius a dash, not like he already has a passive that 230 flat ad level 18 for hitting someone, a bleed that makes him extremely strong for trades, an AOE max hp heal, auto attack reset empowered auto slow, pull with flat armor pen, and a true damage ult that can completely reset off a kill. Let's give him a dash so that one of his only weaknesses, kiting, isn't nearly as viable. Fuck yeah. What kiting weakness. The motherfucker also has higher base movement speed than most mages and the core items he builds give him even more passive movement speed so there's no kiting him with ghost, deadmans, trinity, and swiftness boots on him. That passive plus the base armor pen (garen has to spin for an eternity doing pitiful damage to even activate his armor pen, doesn't get in combat healing or resetting ults, and his ult is just a worse version of Darius's)) means Darius doesn't even need to build particularly offensive besides trinity and steraks to do unholy amounts of damage, and he's got ridiculous base health plus a scaling heal. The only "counter" to him is Vayne or late game Jax/Yi/Tryndamere.
Because forbid someone itemizes to cover their weaknesses...
Infernape (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=LeBlanc Rose,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=LAd891wk,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-03-02T07:08:54.146+0000) > > Just, curious, where do you get these numbers? From what i'm checking, vlad has a 6.7% pickrate, Sylas at 7.9%. Plus, ezreal has nerfs on pbe, thresh got nerfed last patch, conqueror isnt as good on yas right now as old conqueror (crit changes were in his favor tho), got nerf with that as well. Kai'sa has had 6 nerfs in a single season, with 1 buff when she was released and another when adc hp was increased and armor decreased. > > J4 when he got the buff was unpopular and weak, and "Good spot" doesn't warrant a nerf. If Quinn, with a 53% winrate is a 'Bad, terrible champion' I dont get how Kai'sa with her 47.8% is 'Broken, needs immediate nerfs'. Ezreal's nerfs got reverted.
> [{quoted}](name=Infernape,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=LAd891wk,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-03-02T07:10:55.550+0000) > > Ezreal's nerfs got reverted. Well, thats strange. Dunno why they did that. Thanks for telling me.
: Riot your bias toward high playrates champion need to stop !
Just, curious, where do you get these numbers? From what i'm checking, vlad has a 6.7% pickrate, Sylas at 7.9%. Plus, ezreal has nerfs on pbe, thresh got nerfed last patch, conqueror isnt as good on yas right now as old conqueror (crit changes were in his favor tho), got nerf with that as well. Kai'sa has had 6 nerfs in a single season, with 1 buff when she was released and another when adc hp was increased and armor decreased. J4 when he got the buff was unpopular and weak, and "Good spot" doesn't warrant a nerf. If Quinn, with a 53% winrate is a 'Bad, terrible champion' I dont get how Kai'sa with her 47.8% is 'Broken, needs immediate nerfs'.
: Well yes it will effect them less, but champions like Jax with a bunch of magic damage and can't build penetration will be even more effected than AP champions since they can atleast build penetration, but still any buff to stat check champions is a bad buff.
Its the kind of thing that only matters at level 8, and then it is at max a 3% mr increase. Not that big of a deal vs ads with 80 magic damage in their kit.
: Straight copy paste Their items have been nerfed to the ground Lost 200 when {{item:3194}} replaced {{item:3102}}. Gap shrunk to 150. {{item:3742}} lost 175 hp {{item:1401}} {{item:1413}} 10% bonus health {{item:3190}} 400 HP {{item:3143}} 100 HP {{item:3800}} 250 HP {{item:3065}} 50 HP {{item:3068}} 75 HP {{item:3083}} 200 HP Tanks have lost a horrifying 1400 HP. So that's why I can't get 6k hp anymore... Like, a huge help would be increasing final item costs, but then giving better stats. OG warmogs 1000 HP, 500 randuins/visage/deadmans/sunfire, 600 HP glory Edit: MR and armour bonus round! armour=20 {{item:3075}} + 30 {{item:3143}} + 5 {{item:3025}} +20 {{item:3026}} +20 removal of ancient golem = 95 armor lost MR=15 {{item:3102}} + 15 {{item:3065}} + 45{{item:3026}} =75 magic resist lost
Except tanks don't build 9 items.
Zezilian (EUNE)
: He is too strong, when range abilities without items takes 1/3 HP and it cost no mana.
Idk about you, but i'd be disappointed if my full combo did 20% of an opponents health.
Doozku (NA)
: Rageblade applies only for _on-hit_ effects, which are effects which apply when the auto-attack lands. The passive damage on Kayle's E counts as this. However, Kayle's burst waves from her passive are not on-hit, but rather _on-attack_, meaning that they apply when Kayle _starts_ an auto attack as opposed to when she hits an opponent. As a result, it is not effected by Rageblade or Runaans. At least, this is how I think it works. I'm certain that this is accurate, but someone disprove me if this is painfully wrong.
If so, prepare for some sick aa cancelling shenanigans.
: Her passive should work on monsters, like how the fuck do other assassins kill blue or red buff so quick while Akali needs to use 3 Q's than a shroud and one more Q and the buff still has a few hundred hp left. What the shit.
> [{quoted}](name=VolatileAkali,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=KnAj4RmL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-15T19:27:53.422+0000) > > Her passive should work on monsters, like how the fuck do other assassins kill blue or red buff so quick while Akali needs to use 3 Q's than a shroud and one more Q and the buff still has a few hundred hp left. What the shit. 1. Except none of the traditional mid lane assassins do. Talon jg is a thing, but he is the slowest clearing jg in the game. Zed has major issues past the first 1000 damage, passive helps him a bit but it isnt super important. Lb is worse than akali by a long margin, Ekko is actually much better, but that has to do with rito pushing ekko jg. Fizz, again is ok because of his w. Kass doesn't have sustained damage past his w. Katarina is slightly better than akali, not by much tho. Yas doens't struggle as much with larger camps, but he takes a ton of damage doing it. It's not an issue with akali, more mid assassins in general.
Saianna (EUNE)
: It's still lesser issue than what we currently have lol
Not really. Remember how every Xerath is a scripter? If someone writes some code that will spam e instead when you hold it down, that player can almost instantly kill anyone. Mana wouldnt matter anyway, as it refunds mana if it kills or target dies during anim.
Bârd (NA)
: Yeah, probably needs a minimum CD. You wouldn't be able to cast Q/W though.
Doesnt matter if your main ability has a 0 second cd
Bârd (NA)
: Removing Keystones while salvaging their effects.
Grimoire Bookmark, Cass says hi. Just build full mana and make everyone cry.
: Why is lucian immune to nerfs ?
If you ignore champs with <2% playrate, he has the 6th highest winrate. Sivir, Jinx, Twitch, Ashe and MF all beat him out in winrate. I'd say he's still strong, not nerf worthy however.
: The "Forever unusable in Solo Queue because they're broken in competitive" Club
: Dota was a mod for wc 3. Dota was the base for all modern Mobas, especially for LoL, because it developed, useing the bases of dota. Some dota programmers had the idea to make lol. Pls dont act like LoL was here before Dota was... Dota btw has no balance issues at all, there are no 0.01 s oneshots, no champs that serve no counterplay and espeically no Lethality. Hopefully the playerbase will come back to dota, as soon as the wc3 rework dropps. Ppl will realise that the perfect moba is out there and it isnt called LoL. Tbh lol wont stand a chance.
Yes, because the age old "Break everything and all will be balanced." Sorry, I tend to dislike 9 second stunlocks.
Kythers (NA)
: from my experience toxic king {{champion:18}} extreme toxioc {{champion:119}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:145}} passive aggressive {{champion:51}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:498}} generally chill {{champion:22}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:110}} zen master {{champion:29}}
> [{quoted}](name=Kythers,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=En04FU8p,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-01-18T23:41:42.740+0000) > > from my experience > > toxic king > {{champion:18}} > > extreme toxioc > {{champion:119}} > {{champion:96}} > {{champion:67}} > {{champion:145}} > > passive aggressive > {{champion:51}} > {{champion:202}} > {{champion:498}} > > generally chill > {{champion:22}} > {{champion:222}} > {{champion:429}} > {{champion:236}} > {{champion:21}} > {{champion:15}} > {{champion:110}} > > zen master > {{champion:29}} Kalista and MF mains being chill what world do you live in
: > [{quoted}](name=B1oFrost,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=U9evUYhH,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-01-08T00:48:55.724+0000) > > Hey, I agree with all the changes but I must ask when invisible is teemo immune to damage taken? No champion is invincible while invisible.
There _are_ a few exceptions, where the champion is effectively not on the map, such as with shaco ultimate, however they are few and far between.
: Yes, duskblade is the cheapest. Bar Stormrazor of course which is just as broken.
Idk how you do that. Thinking 2900 is lower than 2800.
KmSneaky (EUW)
: Zoe and ahri are more on the assassin side tbh, Liss and Malz are decent, but as for veigar their CDs are too long to have the same impact as characters like {{champion:134}} or {{champion:63}} I'd argue they are among the strongest mages right now, and they have a lot of weaknesses.
What, the 2.8 cd on q too long for you?
: Does anyone actually use Spellbinder?
Vlad rushes it 90% of games, some other champions with very telegraphed burst such as Syndra or Eve build it as well.
MrHaZeYo (NA)
: It's actually funny, Marksman suck because their is to much early up front damage in the game. Supports are AP Mages so enchanters like Lulu and Janna who specialize in peeling and allowing ADCs to make it to mid game are no longer being played. The tanks Marksman need to start fights, soak damage, peel, be the aggro are no longer being played. The Mages who throw out control around the Marksman, often to zone any threats (Divers/Assassins) unto them, are not really being played. The reason Marksman outside of Luc, Draven, and MF don't feel great to play is because the job their designed to do isn't what's meta. The problem then comes down to, What meta do you prefer? The ones stemmed from the Offensive/Damage metas or the Defensive/Tank metas? Personally I'd rather live through the defensive ones, but that's just me.
Looking at pick rates, in the top 10 most picked, only 2 champions, Pyke and Brand, are often cited as examples of "Damage Supports." 3 of them are enchanters, and 4 tank supports, + Morgana. In the mid lane, 62.12% of picks are mages of some sort. I'd say 62% is pretty common in a lane of more than one class. The other lanes are a bit of an issue, however that is probably due to tank itemisation being weak at the moment.
Lhuhz (EUW)
: Vayne Toplane is and has always been garbage, maybe she's better toplane than a outdated jungler like Rammus but that's irrelevant. Vayne top has never been strong, it's just a false Boards narrative.
Vayne top currently hovers around a 49-51% winrate. Thats not garbage last time I checked. Plus, how is it "Irrelevant" that Vayne top is better than Rammus, when the person I was responding too LITERALLY said the opposite.
nonstart (NA)
: Assassin existing is a problem the can kill anyone including tanks at almost all points of the game bruisers exsisting is a problem they can melt tanks while being tanky you suggesting that a type of champion that has existed in every moba is a problem shows how inherently biased you are against the role of adc
As a talon main, it takes over 20 seconds for me to kill a sion doing nothing but shielding himself. For an ADC, it would take 2-3 seconds.
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Meany Sting,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2lOpt8s4,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-01-04T15:43:46.954+0000) > > I&#x27;m sorry but a lot of jungles jus can&#x27;t lane. Its not like they are bad but their kits physically don&#x27;t allow laning. Try taking udyr/rammus/shyvana/graves to a lane. It just does not work unless you specifically counter sone champion. > > A class of champion having just 1 lane to play is ok, what is not ok is having your role always beeing focus of the game. > > Jungles had low income in jungle s3 I believe. You as udyr had to play tank most of the time for pretty much whole season. Season 6 tank/AP jungle item udyr for split push was player in pro games and normal ranked. Season 7 udyr was over nerfed and unplayable. with45% win rate. > > Adcs as a role was always viable to some extent and there even ware metas like protect the kogmaw. Where ADC single handedly decided the games. > > I&#x27;m not even against ADCS but people need to understand having some role not viable is a a thing and it&#x27;s not the end of the world, and ADCS ware never really unviable anyways. > > Compared to ward bot supports living on half the laners gold or 2nd support/ tank jungle was a thing, and it lasted for full season, and yes some supports and jungles cried about it, but we still mained our roles, and didn&#x27;t demand buffs or nerfs on our roles daily. > > I just wish adc mains would understand that not beeing able to carry games istlnt the end of the world. I've supported some Graves ADC's this season and seen them do extremely well. I've seen Shyvana Top and Rammus top do well also. They can lane.... it's just their kits are better suited to Jungle. &nbsp; Taking an ADC (Proper ADC's I mean) that isn't Twitch into the jungle is trolling. Hell even Twitch Jungle is borderline trolling. Vayne Top is garbage Ezreal Mid is garbage. Lucian Mid is garbage. Lucian Top is only a thing because he can hard abuse Kleptomancy vs Melee matchups. Bot Lane is the only lane where the majority of the Marksman roster can function.
I can guarantee, a Vayne top who has pretty good self peel, damage, and trading power, as well as range. Will do better into 95% of matchps, say vs a Rammus top, who has very little self peel, damage, and cs ablity.
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: You want my gold items for supports nerfed? Sure, you can do that. But nerf assassins and conqueror, so i can play enchanters again.
You want my lethality items for assassins nerfed? Sure, you can do that. But nerf enchanters and shielding, so i can play assassins again.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hammermancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xE9p68on,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-28T16:58:53.698+0000) > > When crit items rework was released > Riot: We want to make sure {{item:3095}} doesn&#x27;t synergize with {{item:3147}} > > three months later > Riot: {{item:3147}} now grants extra damage to {{item:3087}} if you build {{item:3095}} I mean... remember how {{item:3147}} was gonna be the {{item:3031}} / {{item:3089}} for assassins? Then it became the first thing **EVERY SINGLE ONE RUSHES EVERY SINGLE GAME**. Duskblade is almost as bad as DFG, except one gets to stay, the other one died.
I mean... it was. But imagine rabadons with half the ap and half the %. Its effect was very lackluster for a late game item, so they reworked it. And now it doesn't have that effect.
: Kalista kiting **does** break the game. Because Kalista does not exist in a vacuum, but coexist in an environment with a class of champions called **melees** (especially true for low mobility ones). One passive ability **with 100% uptime** de facto negating an entire class of champions whose job is often to try to get on top and stick to carries is, very probably, safe to assume terrible game design. This is specifically aggravated and made tenfold worse when Kalista not only possesses best-in-game kiting, **but ALSO top-tier-in-class self peel AND CC.** Release Kalista passive also made her immune to slows and still does make her harder to hit with skillshots compared to her ADC brethren. And she used to play no price whatsoever in terms of DPS or durability. You just can't play around that. She is kept "olafed" for a reason, after all. My stance on the matter is that there are, in fact, rules in the game, but the designer is free to break them as long as he's aware that the kit **must** pay a price for that.
.... You _do_ know what her passive does about slows? It cripples her attack speed. Imagine every slow being a nasus wither. Not fun.
: > [{quoted}](name=INoble KnightI,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=tetEq7Qa,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-12-24T05:20:46.969+0000) > > {{item:3916}} {{item:3020}}{{item:3135}} VERSUS {{item:3071}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3147}} {{item:3814}} {{item:3036}} {{item:3033}} {{item:3124}}. Yeah your opinions are bad and you should feel bad. Also, in order not to get blown up by 1 ability ADC have a large choice of mixed attack - defensive items : {{item:3046}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3814}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3072}}
> [{quoted}](name=Starcraft243ver,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=tetEq7Qa,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2018-12-24T08:59:44.725+0000) > > Also, in order not to get blown up by 1 ability ADC have a large choice of mixed attack - defensive items : > {{item:3046}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3814}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3072}} Exact same for mages. {{item:3001}} {{item:3027}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3116}} {{item:2065}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3152}}
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LeBlanc Rose

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