Eedat (NA)
: This whole thing makes no sense. Yes, his stealth is very strong but you cant balance him around not having it because he does, in fact, have it. I really dont understand this entire argument. You cant just ignore that it's there. You can't just say that the rest of his abilities are weak if you ignore Q so therefore he needs buffs. That's not how a power budget works. If a champion has one very strong ability, the rest have to be weaker or the champ becomes broken. That's like saying Karthus needs buffs because he's really weak if you ignore his ult. > His ability to influence games through his stealth is the entire playstyle of shaco atm. It's not through his boxes, his shiv, or his clone. Are you trying to say remove power from his Q so his other abilities can be better? The whole Yuumi comparison thing is also a head scratcher. Like yeah, Yuumi is not going to have the same win conditions as an assassin. Winrates automatically factor in item strength and the meta. You will be playing against meta champs more so therefore they will influence winrate more. Same goes for common item builds
"This whole thing makes no sense. Yes, his stealth is very strong but you cant balance him around not having it because he does, in fact, have it. I really dont understand this entire argument. You cant just ignore that it's there." I'm not ignoring it. His kit overall needs buff, but his Q enables significant levels of play that other champs cannot achieve. The point I am making is that his kit isn't the problem. His kit itself is incredibly underwhelming for an assassin. And so, he in a majority sense, needs a buff. But his Q, is in fact the issue right now with his feast/famine gameplay. So it either needs to be changed, removed, reworked etc. To be entirely honest, I think he needs an entire rework because his kit isn't an assassin friendly kit, but that's up for dispute. But what happens when champions because one trick ponies on an ability alone? They get changed. Just like how shaco will eventually be reworked as he is lined up for 2020 changes (I believe). "That's not how a power budget works. If a champion has one very strong ability, the rest have to be weaker or the champ becomes broken. That's like saying Karthus needs buffs because he's really weak if you ignore his ult." I saw you use this argument on another post and I countered it there, but I'll do it again. Kayn exists in his current state. 2 Terrain crossing spells. 2 forms of healing. An ulti dash that makes him untargetable for just about 3 seconds, that acts as an execute, and heals him for more than 50% of hp at times. Massive aoe potential, massive single burst potential, can be an assassin or a bruiser. He has all of this in his kit but he isn't changed. If your statement about power budgets was true, and that shacos Q took up all of his power budget, then champions like kayn wouldn't exist. Every single last one of kayns abilities are better than shacos abilities in almost everyway. Kayns bread and butter is an aoe two part slash that puts him over walls. Kayns ghost ability heals him and allows him to cross massive amounts of terrain on a low CD. Kayns reaching blade is a powerful aoe instant knockup on red kayn, that can also act as an insane burst mechanic on blue kayn. All while he has better scaling than shaco on 100% of his abilities. Better base damage than shaco on 100% of his abilities. He has more mobility, and arguably, better mobility than shaco. So where is the power limiting in his kit according to the power budget theory? Because kayn is still a reasonable champ before he gets either of his forms, maybe even equal to shaco. Same thing applies to a champion like rengar. His W cleanses CC, and can also heal for a considerable amount of hp. His E slow deals a lot of damage with high base and scaling, more so than any of shacos abilities. His R is an incredibly powerful burstcirt/leap, that gives him up to 60% bonus move speed, shreds up to 24 flat armor, while also keeping these buffs for up to 20 seconds. Then his Q is his bread and butter skill, but by the time you get to it, you can already see that his power budget is considerably higher for a champion of the same archetype and purpose. If power budgets exist, then shacos is lower than most champions that share his role. "Are you trying to say remove power from his Q so his other abilities can be better?" Indeedy! :3 "The whole Yuumi comparison thing is also a head scratcher. Like yeah, Yuumi is not going to have the same win conditions as an assassin. Winrates automatically factor in item strength and the meta. You will be playing against meta champs more so therefore they will influence winrate more. Same goes for common item builds" Yeah exactly what I'm saying is exactly what you've said here. You're pinning down shacos winrate to him obviously being overpowered, or not in need of buffs, almost purely because of his winrate. When in actuality, there's a lot more to the balance of this champion than just "he is overpowered/doesnt needs buffs" or "buff the whole champ/rework his Q"
Eedat (NA)
: Hi, I was wondering what metrics you use to determine that Shaco is in need of a buff. According to Lolayltics, he's sitting at 52% winrate with 4% pickrate in Plat+ and 55% winrate with only 2% playrate in Masters+. While I agree these numbers wouldn't put him in top tier by any means, its also a pretty far cry from needing straight buffs. He has pretty good numbers in Plat+ and the high ELO mains seem to be making him work in high ELO as well Are you proposing straight buff(s) or a trade off for more damage to make him feel better to play?
Damn dude you sure do love bashing shaco for whatever reason. He does need a buff. His winrate exists because he has a stealth, that's it. His entire kit is dependant on him having his Q up, or he deals no damage, cannot assassinate anyone, provides no map pressure, cannot team fight, loses split pushes etc. It is the sole reason why he has any winrate at all. The rest of his kit is incredibly weak, deals no damage, and has no relevance until super late game when you have multiple items to give you damage, which even then, his E is pathetic and his boxes scale on AP. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35qDz9z6l48 And he is also right; using win-rates as a metric for determining if a champ is strong or not doesn't always apply. A yummi is not going to be able to achieve the same victory conditions that a rengar has, nor will the rengar achieve victory conditions that yummi has, therefor, their winrates are subject to massive difference in accordance to varying factors, such as item strength, what is currently meta, what team comps are being played, gold efficiency etc. If you talk about winrates in a generalized sense then yeah, shaco is strong. But him not needing buffs is far from the truth. His ability to influence games through his stealth is the entire playstyle of shaco atm. It's not through his boxes, his shiv, or his clone. He entirely depends on getting early leads for all your lanes through use of his Q, and popping up in places he wasn't expected to be. This is strong at the moment, because game speeds are much faster than what they were even a year ago. We're seeing games end at 25 minutes now. The game stays young, and so shacos Q pop-up playstyle keeps him relevant. The only other time when shaco is relevant, is when it hits later on in the game, and shaco actually has items, making him a damage threat to ADCs and weaker supports alike, and again, the only reason shaco plays like this is his Q.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aNQ1yhvt,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T11:16:24.861+0000) > > Okay so, lets run over this one more time, because I am actually shocked at how little brain you have used while commenting on this thread. > > The OP is calling the prestige skin line, bullshit, because they are apparently - and they literally are - gold retouches of skins that already exist. There is nothing prestigious about a cheap skinline, that no one wanted nor has asked for, that has little to no value, yet is priced way too high. > > So then you, big Ol' Mr Big brain, come here and say the following: > "If you don't like it, don't buy it. Guess how much the skins existing hurts you? 0." > Are you lonely or something? Is that it? > You come here, and display some mouth-breather level intelligence, by saying he doesn't have to buy it. > Literally every single person here knows that. The fact that you think this is at all, relevant, or even helpful information, genuinely makes me worry for what you do in your spare time > > No one is acting like his opinion is gold at all, we're all just so damn surprised at how dumb of a comment you made. Okay Mr. White knight, let's run this over one more time, because I am actually shocked at how little brain you have used while commenting on this thread. The OP is calling the prestige skin line bullshit, and I said more or less "why does it matter?". If you think the skin line is cheap, bullshit, and a waste of money, how about you don't buy it? It's not meant for you, and its existence doesn't hurt you in the slightest. But clearly, you have a problem with it, so you're going to resort to white knighting and attacking anyone who doesn't agree with you. Want to know what I think of them? Nothing. Why? Because they don't affect me. Is anyone forcing you to open your wallet and pour money into these golden shits? Nooooo? Then shut the hell up. No one cares about your clout chasing boards posts. I'm sorry that your HUGE 10TH LEVEL INTELLECT BRAIN can't comprehend the idea of doing something OTHER than fight or flight, but please try it some time.
Bro you went full soft brain. Never go full soft brain. You didn't even comprehend the OPs post oh my LAWD "how about you don't buy it?" He never was going to buy it. That's why he called it a cash grab. That's why he said it sickens him. God. You had to be told this. "so you're going to resort to white knighting " No I'm calling you out on your brainless comment. "and attacking anyone who doesn't agree with you" I have attacked 0 people except you, because you made a dumbass comment. And now, you've made 2. Congrats. "Want to know what I think of them? Nothing. Why? Because they don't affect me." Completely irrelevant. "Is anyone forcing you to open your wallet and pour money into these golden shits? Nooooo? Then shut the hell up." You... You aren't even arguing against what I've said, or what the OP said... You went full soft brain twice. You came here, right? Onto an open, public forum, specifically put in place, so discussion about the product in it's entirety could be had in a controlled online environment. So you decide to come onto the forum, and go right ahead, and talk about a point that no one had brought up except yourself, and complain that people are using the boards exactly how they were designed and intended to be used. Do you not see how downright stupid that is? You're going off on a tangent, all while criticizing people for doing exactly what they should be doing. And now you're trying to defend your actions like they mean something. "No one cares about your clout chasing boards posts. " More irrelevant statements. May aswell host your own show where all you do is talk about fifty million things on fifty million different tangents because you can't finish a single train of thought. "I'm sorry that your HUGE 10TH LEVEL INTELLECT BRAIN can't comprehend the idea of doing something OTHER than fight or flight, but please try it some time." Nah there's no way you're serious! Are you serious? Bro you need to work on that brain of yours, do some puzzles or riddles or something. It's straight up_ B E F U D D L I N G_ how you comment here. First, you attack the OP, baselessly, and on a topic not even related. Then, you try to end your comment with.. is it an insult? I honestly don't know. Fight or Flight is a reaction bruh. It happens in _response_ to stimuli. No ones brain can do that for more than a few moments at a time, let alone all the time, you silly head! Like, if you had of said something like "Maybe you could do something other than fight or flight when you see an internet comment" it would have made sense. Honestly bro, you should call yourself a blastocyst, because your brain isn't fully formed ;)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aNQ1yhvt,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-07-16T02:50:32.098+0000) > > Damn dude, imagine having an opinion and calling things bullshit? > Crazy right? > If only more people were like mindless drones and just purchased shitty reused assets for an inflated price because of a colour change, then the world would be a better place!! :) I love it when people act like all opinions are golden mantles of untouchable thought that can't be bashed in any way because "it's just your opinion", and if you call some bullshit an opinion that clearly isn't it gets protected. They can't be wrong either, because there's no way humans who aren't perfect could have wrong thoughts, nope.
> [{quoted}](name=ThatShinyPiplup,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aNQ1yhvt,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-07-16T03:20:37.350+0000) > > I love it when people act like all opinions are golden mantles of untouchable thought that can't be bashed in any way because "it's just your opinion", and if you call some bullshit an opinion that clearly isn't it gets protected. They can't be wrong either, because there's no way humans who aren't perfect could have wrong thoughts, nope. Okay so, lets run over this one more time, because I am actually shocked at how little brain you have used while commenting on this thread. The OP is calling the prestige skin line, bullshit, because they are apparently - and they literally are - gold retouches of skins that already exist. There is nothing prestigious about a cheap skinline, that no one wanted nor has asked for, that has little to no value, yet is priced way too high. So then you, big Ol' Mr Big brain, come here and say the following: "If you don't like it, don't buy it. Guess how much the skins existing hurts you? 0." Are you lonely or something? Is that it? You come here, and display some mouth-breather level intelligence, by saying he doesn't have to buy it. Literally every single person here knows that. The fact that you think this is at all, relevant, or even helpful information, genuinely makes me worry for what you do in your spare time No one is acting like his opinion is gold at all, we're all just so damn surprised at how dumb of a comment you made.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aNQ1yhvt,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-07-16T02:50:32.098+0000) > > Damn dude, imagine having an opinion and calling things bullshit? > Crazy right? > If only more people were like mindless drones and just purchased shitty reused assets for an inflated price because of a colour change, then the world would be a better place!! :) Also if you noticed, my post said specifically that if you didn't want it DON'T BUY IT. Where in the world did "If only more people were like mindless drones and just purchased shitty reused assets for an inflated price because of a colour change, then the world would be a better place!! :)" come from?
> [{quoted}](name=ThatShinyPiplup,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aNQ1yhvt,comment-id=000100010001,timestamp=2019-07-16T03:29:12.453+0000) > > Also if you noticed, my post said specifically that if you didn't want it DON'T BUY IT. Where in the world did "If only more people were like mindless drones and just purchased shitty reused assets for an inflated price because of a colour change, then the world would be a better place!! :)" come from? Because you clearly have an issue with what he's talking about. Why else would you comment the blaringly obvious? You're either that dumb, or you have an opinion that goes against what he's saying. And I paid you the benefit of the doubt and presumed you had an opinion that - for whatever half brain reason - goes against people complaining abut riot making shitty skins.
: Why put forth any extra effort when they don't have to. Millions of people buying skins, emotes, passes, and little legends regardless of the opinion on the state of the game. As long as people throw money at them, Riot will just carry on assuming the majority of the people are happy with things just the way they are.
> [{quoted}](name=Dr Endeavor,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EnlAdZxj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-15T21:18:04.281+0000) > > Why put forth any extra effort when they don't have to. Millions of people buying skins, emotes, passes, and little legends regardless of the opinion on the state of the game. As long as people throw money at them, Riot will just carry on assuming the majority of the people are happy with things just the way they are. But that isn't how business works. If you continue to negatively impact customers, people will leave. The product will lose its momentum (which by the way, is impossibly hard to get back) and it ultimately will lose money. We can see this very effect from what's happened to riot. They went from making 2.1 billion in their most successful year ever, to losing 1/4 of their revenue inside less than 2 years: https://gamasutra.com/view/news/334636/Analyst_PUBG_outearned_every_other_premium_PC_and_console_game_in_2018.php Usually when you lose 1/4 of your revenue, it's a sign that a company is doing INCREDIBLY poor business. On top of this, there is 0 evidence to suggest that the 1.4Billion in earnings last year is going to be beaten this year, so there very much is the chance that their revenue will decrease even further, DESPITE them putting the most effort into skins they ever have, and this isn't to mention the littering of other microtransactions all over the rest of the game. More MTX =/= more revenue People aren't throwing money at riot. In fact, they're throwing their money anywhere but riot at the moment, and I honestly believe that trend is going to continue this year at RIOT.
Unvictus (NA)
: Yorick is not a good fit at all imo. Talon however should've been chosen and its a shame he still hasn't been.
I personally feel like the Project skinline could at least do with one beefy champion in the lineup tho
: If you don't like it, don't buy it. Guess how much the skins existing hurts you? 0.
> [{quoted}](name=ThatShinyPiplup,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aNQ1yhvt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-15T20:39:04.755+0000) > > If you don't like it, don't buy it. Guess how much the skins existing hurts you? 0. Damn dude, imagine having an opinion and calling things bullshit? Crazy right? If only more people were like mindless drones and just purchased shitty reused assets for an inflated price because of a colour change, then the world would be a better place!! :)
: Why is League of Legends so polarizingly infuriating even for casual players?
Well it's especially toxic for casual players because IMO: - The game only offers one mode. Like yeah, Aram is nice, but it's just summoners rift objectives with one lane and random champions. There is no ability to "just have fun" because there is a checklist you have to complete if you want to even remotely have fun. Rotate properly. Defend towers. Push towers. Accurately CS. Harrass for early lane pressure and dominance. Ward. Plenty more etc etc And if you miss out on doing even ONE of these things? It gets turned into a MASSIVE lead against you. The tiniest amount of laziness means you lose that match if your opponent is trying to win. So, you HAVE tot try to win 100% of the time, or you'll get ganked a lot/be down in CS/ lose vision control and thus the map/ you'll never take their towers etc etc. The game itself doesn't allow casual players, because riot genuinely doesn't care for the casual player. Theyre invested in players who play competitively, and thus, themselves are invested and more likely to spend money. They couldn't care less about any of the people in Bronze-silver. Remember when ascension was live? That was the most fun i've ever had with this game. Pick any champ, go in, and do whatever you want to kill the enemy. Be full troll and play as heim in the bottom bushes? You can do that. Want to try hard to win? You can do that! Want to just kill kill KILL? YOU CAN DO THAT!!! Want to spend the entire game protecting one person? Again, you, can, do, that. The only objectives were crystals and kills. There was no rotations. There were no towers. It allowed the player to not have to go step by step each game in order to play. League needs more of that^^ And less of checklist gameplay.
: Can we get an option to not be matched with premade groups?
: That still wasn't his identity. Say what you will, but his lore never mentioned him doing anything of the sort. Build variety is something a champion should _not_ have. That was one of his problems. When you can build differently on the fly, you're too versatile without changing the amount of skill required. So what we've got is that he was several things a champion shouldn't be, along with missing the one thing every champion should be: fun.
"Say what you will, but his lore never mentioned him doing anything of the sort." The dude was literally a magical golem, created to defend all demacians, but was kept by his creator, Durand, to use Galio purely for his own use, unlike what had happened with all the other Golems. His life was dedicated to protecting his master at any cost. To say that wasn't his identity is to ignore the lore. "Build variety is something a champion should not have." LOL "Build variety is something a champion should not have. That was one of his problems. When you can build differently on the fly, you're too versatile without changing the amount of skill required." But you're straight up wrong. Galios build variety is what made him viable: he had many lane encounters that he hard lost because he was geared towards anti-mage with his passive, and team based fighting with his kit. He lost in lane often because he didn't have any DPS like most top laners do and did. This meant that his build variety allowed him to spontaneously be able to build whatever was necessary, and not be punished for building something outside his core. Several things a champion shouldn't be? Flexible? Not reliant on itemisation? Fitting their role properly? Fun? Yeah who would want that. Who could possibly want a dynamic champion that can go sup, mid, and top, that can also build for damage, or build to tank.
: I'm not going to argue statistics, but saying his E was meaningless or that he relied on flash is just dumb. His E was basically a mini Kled ult that also had the unique ability to manipulate minion waves by speeding up allied minions. His E also helped set up his ult. He could never get those amazing 3-5 man game changing ults without flash but just using E and catching 2 people in it was plenty effective. Look at how many champions still rely on flash to make things happen and still work just fine. Taric uses it to setup stuns all the time, Annie leads her ult with it all the time, Lee Sin uses it to get behind people before ulting, Shen uses it to flash taunt, Gragas uses it to flash body slam, Volibear, Singed, and Udyr use it frequently to catch out a single target, and many more. How is it a problem that Galio was better by leading his ult with flash? Almost the entire roster is better by leading with flash.
How in the hell are people downvoting you but upvoting SEKAI... Everything you've said so far is pretty correct. Besides, he wasn't underpowered at all! https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Galio/History#1st His old kit offered high base damages, with moderate ratios, movespeed buffs and 90Mr+arm buff that healed him, a strong slow, and a game winning ulti. But saying he absolutely RELIED on flash is downright false guys. I even think with some of the current items available, old galio would have been very viable in the current meta, which is sad considering current galio has been trashed on.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ftA7dEFM,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-07-12T00:57:24.475+0000) > > What were the old issues though? > > I played a lot of old galio, and found his kit to be pretty accurate to his identity, and it seemed alright balance wise What identity are you talking about? Being a statue? 'Cause in that sense none of it was accurate safe for the two seconds he stood still for his taunt.
His kit could be used incredibly well to benefit someone, whether that be by attacking the attackers dishing out very noticeable damage with his Q for a 50% slow, or by him protecting his target from being hit with 90 Armor and MR buff, or by the taunt. He then even had a speed buff for 50% bonus movespeed to either help him and his allies get away or engage. Basically, he was a Magically Enchanted golem that was effective at peeling one target, or engaging the enemy to set up fights. Not only that, but his build had a lot of variety. He could go full damage because his ratios were decent, which also fed back into his tankiness with healing from his W, so he could off tank aswell with his passive + w. Or, he could build straight tank, because he had good utility in his kit, meaning he wasn't useless if he wasn't the carry. He was everything a champ should be, minus the visual aspect of course. His role was not defined by his core items making him viable, he was viable because his kit was fair, and offered many styles of play, while also being counterable.
: Old Galio had his own issues. It'd not _just_ about popularity. It's just that new Galio has completely different issues. They gave him the same problem Ryze has, and didn't realize.
What were the old issues though? I played a lot of old galio, and found his kit to be pretty accurate to his identity, and it seemed alright balance wise
Teh Song (NA)
: It's all about happy mediums. With too little vision, it can be too easy for a jungler to gank. With too much vision, jungler becomes unplayable, among other problems. From all the experience I have with multiple mobas, I tell you with certainty that having too much vision is a much bigger problem than having too little. That said, I don't know who's been in your matches, but the experience I've been having in LoL (talking present day here) has been that wards are always up. When I a jungler using Duskblade, I swear it reveals an enemy ward every single time I get near a lane.
Yeah but at the moment the jungle is too easy. You farm JG and then look for gank opportunities, but it takes so long for the jungle to come back up, that you can usually clear top, pull two ganks off (extremely lucky situation) and maybe even counter jungle a camp in their jungle, back, go to clear bot after recalling, and be half way through bot before your top camps are coming back up. It's too easy to choose between farming and ganking for a jungler, because the jungle in terms of farming is pretty forgiving, so the lack of vision only feeds into this gank heavy meta. Perhaps if the jungle made clearing a more consistent and necessary act, then this lack of vision could be "forgiven" in a gameplay sense? Not sure, but at the moment jungle is a pretty braindead role imo
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2Mgw36If,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T07:48:19.731+0000) > > So why are you coming here and commenting then? To share my experience
> [{quoted}](name=A Sutpid Idot,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2Mgw36If,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T08:08:46.630+0000) > > To share my experience But your experience doesn't help in the slightest?
Eedat (NA)
: I'm actually mastery level 6 on Shaco so I've already got more than those 20 games you recommended. While sure, he may only be the 17th highest winrate jungler the difference between him and number 10 is a mere _**0.3%**_. There are only three junglers that are above 53% right now so you are attempting to make it seem like there is this massive gap where there isnt. For example, you go off on this apples to oranges comparison to Ryze. But Ryze is a full 4.5% winrate lower than Shaco, yet you are attempting to portray Shaco as being bad because his winrate is 0.3% below top 10 for jungle? As a matter of fact, Ryze is in the ***bottom 10*** winrates for all champs in all roles. Is it because Ryze requires a lot of skill and practice? But didn't you just say how much skill and practice Shaco requires? Why does it affect Ryze but not Shaco? How about Kayne's winrate being 1.5% lower than Shaco's? Is Kayne bad now since he isnt even top 20 for winrate? Comparing these champs is 100% completely pointless. Kayne has a different power budget that obviously allows for more damage. You cant compare Kayne's tiny dash to Shaco's x3 range blink + invisibilty thats just ridiculous You are not listening to what I am saying. I am saying that Shaco needs to have power taken from his Q and redistributed elsewhere in his kit. Whether that be more damage on E or passive or more damage wherever or some fun new mechanic that makes him "feel stronger" or what not. His Q being too good does not allow any room for his other abilities to be good. This is how every single champion in LoL works. If a champ has one or two super good ability(s), the rest cannot be or the champ becomes broken. Look at launch Camille for example. All of her skills were really good which made her insanely busted requiring wave after wave of nerfs to reign her into even a somewhat reasonable level. Karthus is another prime example of this. His R consumes practically his entire power budget. Whens the last time you said "oh no, Karthus is Qing at me"? No, its "Oh fuck, _**Karthus pressed R**_". I really give zero fucks about competitive play. You and I are***nowhere even remotely close*** to ever playing at that level and it's frankly just a cop out. Its more or less saying "hey Shaco is bad at this thing that doesn't apply to me at all in any way shape or form and never will but I'm still going to attempt to use it as leverage" I don't really care dude. You can close your eyes, cover your ears, and yell all you want. Doesn't change the fact that this is the absolute basics of how champion design and balance works
Yeah but everything you've said about how he needs to be changed, or how is current state is, is actually incorrect. "I am saying that Shaco needs to have power taken from his Q and redistributed elsewhere in his kit. " Shaco Q doesn't do any meaningful damage at all. "10 / 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 (+ 40% bonus AD) (+ 30% AP)" That's not even remotely strong at all. To consider 50 + like 20, to maybe 150 damage at any given time is laughable for an assassin. Straight up, you're wrong. "His Q being too good does not allow any room for his other abilities to be good. This is how every single champion in LoL works." Rengar has his Q and his W? Leblanc has her R and her W? Kayn has two abilities that put him over and through terrain, while also having an ultimate dash that renders him untargetable, and heals him for a shit load, while also having massive aoe potential and inbuilt sustain with low mana costs. Calling shacos Q "too good" for any of his other abilities to be relevant is beyond laughable. There are probably hundreds of examples I can think of off the top of my head where champions have multiple super strong abilities.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2Mgw36If,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-07-10T00:04:01.008+0000) > > Just move the "t" in "sutpid" one space to the left in place of where the "u" is. > > Then put an "i" after the "d" and before the "o" in "Idot" > > and THEN, your name will be pretty accurate! ??? I said I never got the 'afk' thing when my pc crashed/froze
> [{quoted}](name=A Sutpid Idot,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2Mgw36If,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-10T00:09:12.443+0000) > > ??? I said I never got the 'afk' thing when my pc crashed/froze So why are you coming here and commenting then?
: Never happened when my pc crashed/froze
> [{quoted}](name=A Sutpid Idot,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2Mgw36If,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-09T22:30:04.662+0000) > > Never happened when my pc crashed/froze Just move the "t" in "sutpid" one space to the left in place of where the "u" is. Then put an "i" after the "d" and before the "o" in "Idot" and THEN, your name will be pretty accurate!
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2019-07-06T16:24:48.898+0000) > > Yeah because the game shouldn't be hundreds of counter picks. > > The game should be about skill expression, not how powerful x is against y. It's a strategic game with dynamic game play. If you make it too much about the latter statement, then you have our CURRENT situation where specific picks in every patch are way too good for everyone else on the roster, regardless of if they're supposed to be or not, and then the boards complain that Riot doesn't balance the game, anyway. Riot's been neglecting the strategic element of "drafting" for way too long. Part of balancing a strategic game is that some choices should be bad choices. This isn't Street Fighter.
"If you make it too much about the latter statement, then you have our CURRENT situation where specific picks in every patch are way too good for everyone else on the roster, regardless of if they're supposed to be or not, and then the boards complain that Riot doesn't balance the game, anyway. " But this statement is completely incorrect. Because the reason why specific picks are a problem because the champion development team isn't one group. You have multiple different groups, and thus, new champions, and reworks, are never done under the same people. The current META is a result of champion development, not balancing: these are two different aspects of the larger category of gameplay. It WAS a mistake to add true stealth to akali - devs fault. This made the game as you have described it. Specific pick Meta. It WASN'T a mistake to take it away from akali - balancing team did this. This makes the game LESS as you have described it. Skill expression meta. A counter pick meta is created when you release champs with abilities like Irellia has, but on a consistent basis. The majority of the patch notes these days are champs that have recently been released or re-released, and they aren't buffs. It's always nerfs. Meanwhile champions like Corki, have been MASSIVELY BUFFED THIS PATCH, because their older kits cannot keep up with what is in the current champion pool for the meta, which is a bunch of new champs, mixed with a few old champs that are able to compete with the broken ones. Karma is strong because she counters the mid lane meta. Sivir is strong because she counters the bot lane meta. Tahm Kench is strong because he counters the top lane meta. But what is the meta for mid, top and bot? All super mechanically strong new champions. Mid is zoe, irellia, sylas, neeko, and their counterpicks. Top is Aatrox, camille, kled, morde, and their counterpicks. Bot is Yummi, pyke + (random AD), a few non new champs, AND THEIR COUNTERPICKS. All the champions that are strong, or broken, or high pickrate, are champions that are new, or recently reworked, and the only exception is champs that are direct counters to the meta, which are inevitably strong because they counter whats strong, making them strong. A counterpick meta isn't the result of balancing, its a result of development and gameplay development. And a counterpick meta is absolute shite.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ovz99Kvp,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-07-06T16:50:11.856+0000) > > snip Remember everybody, Shaco is a very strong early-game champion and he's honestly overbearing to fight because his damage is the best out of any assassin, right? _Hey wait no he's actually the worst assassin in the game by a large margin._ Why do I handicap myself by playing Shaco.
> [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ovz99Kvp,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2019-07-07T02:53:37.563+0000) > > Remember everybody, Shaco is a very strong early-game champion and he's honestly overbearing to fight because his damage is the best out of any assassin, right? > > _Hey wait no he's actually the worst assassin in the game by a large margin._ > > Why do I handicap myself by playing Shaco. Because hes one of the last few mechanically interesting assassins, who has tons of countplay potential, with great utility. Basically, he's more fun than hitting R on rengar, clicking once and dealing 1k damage, plus an auto reset for another 400 or so.
: We're missing a good bit of information. What rank was Shaco's E? What was Shaco's build? What was Fizz's build? Runes for each champion? Was this PBE where Fizz is undergoing testing on a damage-reduction passive? I can barely even see their levels, although it looks like Shaco is 7 and Fizz is 9. That was certainly a comically weak hit, though, I'll give you that: about 82 damage.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ovz99Kvp,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-06T07:36:34.350+0000) > > We're missing a good bit of information. What rank was Shaco's E? What was Shaco's build? What was Fizz's build? Runes for each champion? Was this PBE where Fizz is undergoing testing on a damage-reduction passive? I can barely even see their levels, although it looks like Shaco is 7 and Fizz is 9. > > That was certainly a comically weak hit, though, I'll give you that: about 82 damage. If you look very closely, shacos box fear was at level 1 status, so he must have 3 points q, 3 points e, 1 points to both W and R. Either that or 4 points to q and 2 points to e. Point being made, he used 4/4 of his abilities including his ulti. So, what exactly does that mean. He autod fizz a total of 10 times. Activated his passive 3 times for the bonus crit damage. Had tiamat on all of his autos, so gotta ad that 20 or so damage per auto in. Plus he activated tiamat, Plus he got electrocute, Plus he activated sheen twice (watch his hands when he first casts q, then again when he ultis). Plus his box hit fizz 8 times (I counted, and you can too if you'd like). So. If you even got half of what I just described on any other assassin champ, fizz would've died 100%. Lb. Rengar. Talon. etc. Shaco in this instance did everything overwhelmingly correct. Hit every instance of his ability, positioned the box perfectly, hit an insane amount of auto attack against someone like fizz. And even then, after all of this accounted for - when you realize that shaco did more than what most assassins have to do to get a kill, but x 2 - his e still doesn't even do 100 damage, despite the fact that its meant to act as an execute. Now of course, we don't have all the details, but you've gotta admit, 10 auto attacks with tiamat (3 of them critting for 130%), activating tiamat and electrocute, procing sheen twice, getting 8 hits of his box off, AND getting the e cast off... not dealing 1500-1600 damage quite frankly is ludicrous for an assasin. No other assassin lands that many successive attacks, and yet, they all hurt a LOT more than what this shaco did here. Like, there were over 20 individual instances of damage in that brief window. More than 20. We aren't talking about urgots purge here, this is a full rotation (well over a full rotation if you ask me) by an ASSASSIN at mid game and it doesn't even deal enough to kill a 1600 target, who not only is incredibly late to react to the assassin, but stands still for a full 5 seconds letting the assassin just go ham. Thats just wrong.
: > [{quoted}](name=abca98,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKvAfyNH,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-07-06T00:24:33.137+0000) > > UnPOpuLaR OpinIoM It is an unpopular opinion. People don't like counter-picks around here.
Yeah because the game shouldn't be hundreds of counter picks. The game should be about skill expression, not how powerful x is against y.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sHjbwHgA,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-07-05T08:31:18.921+0000) > > "This issue personally doesn't affect me, so that means that your issue is obviously meaningless, and I have to let you know how little your issue means" Except there is no issue. You're really going to cry about accounts who have a small number of champs to play ARAM? There's not a single champion who is going to result in an ARAM win every single time. The highest winrate champ in ARAM is Illaoi at 61.5% (4.6% pick rate because people who have no clue just reroll her, the very same types of people who want bans in ARAM) -- guess who I always see people complaining about in regards to ARAM and wanting a ban feature? Veigar, who has a 52% winrate in ARAM. Blitz is 51%, yet is very commonly mentioned. You claim that there is an issue. Your claims would also mean this issue is universal, due to the scope of said "issue". How in the hell could you argue that someone doesn't hold value in your claims simply due to them not affecting that person? Either the issue exists or it doesn't. If someone plays a single game of ARAM, with the "issue" you're claiming, they'd inherently have been affected. That, or, the issue is a construct straight from the minds of those who can't stand a loss even in a mode where champions are 100% random. Claiming that there's an issue which is breaking ARAM, then conveniently claiming that a person is opposed only because it doesn't affect them, is hypocrisy and selective logic. You're going to lose ARAMs. Get over it. You can't win them all, and losing isn't always about some external faceless force bringing you down. Everyone who plays ARAM faces the exact same "issue" you're alleging exists. If you were _truly_ concerned by the "issue" you're creating, you'd also have considered the fact that you're just as likely to get an "ARAM account" on your team as your opponents are. You're simply finding absolutely anything which you can attribute your loss to, and making a big deal out of it. If they permanently reintroduced bans in ARAM, there would be another thread about some other "flaw"/"issue" responsible for your losses. Bans won't rid you of the possibility of getting a highly counterable team like 100% AP, won't prevent you from getting all melee while the enemy has incredible mobility/range/cc, won't prevent you from getting the average ARAM player who has no clue how to play 99% of champs, and certainly won't account for your lack of knowledge on every champ in your pool. It's ARAM. FFS.
"Except there is no issue. You're really going to cry about accounts who have a small number of champs to play ARAM? There's not a single champion who is going to result in an ARAM win every single time. The highest winrate champ in ARAM is Illaoi at 61.5%" Literally didn't have to read anymore of your comment to understand that you physically don't know what you're saying or talking about. "Except there is no issue." There is. "You're really going to cry about accounts who have a small number of champs to play ARAM? " Are you talking to me? Because I could have sworn this has no relevance to what I said at all. "There's not a single champion who is going to result in an ARAM win every single time." ... That's not the point anyones trying to make. I don't even know how or why you brought that random ass fact into the comments here. Of course there isn't. Like, did you know water is wet? And that brown is a colour? "The highest winrate champ in ARAM is Illaoi at 61.5%" And right there, you point out the very thing your trying to disprove, but instead of disproving it, you prove it. A Champion, who benefits from the map layout of howling abyss, performs better on average, and thus wins more games. So don't let the system be abusable, like it is currently, and you avoid 100% of people abusing the broken system to win more games. How do you do this? Make it random. Congratulations, you played yourself [https://giphy.com/gifs/LJemLPJs6dBhm]
: ?????
> [{quoted}](name=ThatShinyPiplup,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7cecXt9s,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-04T19:15:24.257+0000) > > ????? ??????
Teh Song (NA)
: but, I mean, it's ARAM. Bans, no bans, why do you care? If you're playing ARAM with any level of victory vs defeat making a difference to you you shouldn't be playing ARAM, bans or not. It's a fun mode where you can try things you wouldn't want to test in norms, winning isn't part of the ARAM equation.
"This issue personally doesn't affect me, so that means that your issue is obviously meaningless, and I have to let you know how little your issue means"
: Damage Text Color Change
People need to call out shit like this more often. Orange and blue are colours widely used in the maps offered at current to us (Howling Abyss, Summoners Rift). How on earth they thought making colours that blend in with your environment was a good idea, when the numbers are meant to stick out like a sore thumb, is absolutely beyond me. management at Riot has dropped the ball, but come on, basic shit like this shouldn't even be considered by their teams, and yet here we are, counter logic implementations yet again. upvoted
: it's almost like something was developed using old technology. Try playing an old PC in todays PCs and tell me how well they run without you having to go through hoops and loops to even get them to start. They could make those modes work for the new client or they could develop new modes for it.
The old... the old game modes have been played on the new client multiple times I... I don't understand your point?
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ud3Zx8Aw,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T10:40:58.236+0000) > > Yes, you do need to listen to your team. > > And he wasn't yorick so that has no relevance, nice If youre yorick, and you listen to your team telling you to group, youre not very good at playing yorick. You dont listen to your team. Always assume youre better than they are, because if youre not, youre not gunna climb anyway.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ud3Zx8Aw,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T13:20:39.976+0000) > > If youre yorick, and you listen to your team telling you to group, youre not very good at playing yorick. > > You dont listen to your team. Always assume youre better than they are, because if youre not, youre not gunna climb anyway. Youre using logic of a game that didn't occur. That bears no relevance on the current situation. To justify someones innocence, despite the fact that they were banned.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ud3Zx8Aw,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T01:00:49.243+0000) > > We have actual footage of him being begged to go bot by his whole team, and he just stays mid. > > He has held games hostage. > > he is not innocent. Thats not holding your team hostage, and you dont need to listen to your team. If im yorick, and my team tells me to group, guess what? Im not listening.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ud3Zx8Aw,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T01:11:43.451+0000) > > Thats not holding your team hostage, and you dont need to listen to your team. > > If im yorick, and my team tells me to group, guess what? Im not listening. Yes, you do need to listen to your team. And he wasn't yorick so that has no relevance, nice
Subdue (NA)
: Mathematically speaking, you're about as well off with BE as you were with IP
Because the entire thing was put in at the same time as runes to sneak it in. They wanted to tie game mechanics to the RNG gambling mechanics to normalize opening crates, which is what happened. Them saying "they wanted to give us more stuff to buy" was absolute bullshit because we've had barely anything to get with all our blue essence. That's why they gave us blue essence. Not for us. It was for them.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ud3Zx8Aw,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-24T09:57:07.275+0000) > > "The number of reports means nothing." > > Oh so hes not innocent now? He is. Being reported doesnt make the report valid
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ud3Zx8Aw,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-24T13:07:05.109+0000) > > He is. Being reported doesnt make the report valid We have actual footage of him being begged to go bot by his whole team, and he just stays mid. He has held games hostage. he is not innocent.
Skuluton (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=oZcTLl7K,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-06-24T01:38:02.003+0000) > > Nubrac got banned because he had been reported dozens of times for holding games hostage by going against what the team wanted and staying mid despite people literally begging him to go sup just like what happened in the NB3 game******** > > And no, he isn't worse than t1 > > Why are people sticking their head in the sand to type comments about NB3 > > Its like as soon as NB3 becomes the focus of peoples mind, they become chimps overcome by blind rage and cannot help but type completely irrelevant, wrong, or stupid sentences Did you read what was written in his ban report ? Nubrac was banned for that 1 game he played with nightblue for feeding and griefing. Idk where you heard about him taking games hostage because not even 1 day after the "drama" someone exposed nightblue for holding game lobbys ... If you want to cover your favorite streamer at least dont lie about what happened
Haven't watched nightblue in over 2 years because his content is bad But hey, you guys can keep running around like headless chickens who somehow think they achieved something by getting NB banned. You can even act at the end of the day like Nubrac was innocent. Just don't make the boards 20 IQ points worse off, just because you have a hard on for hating NB, that's all I ask
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ud3Zx8Aw,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-24T05:20:16.930+0000) > > And yet riot came out and stated that he had gotten a lot of reports over a few weeks which would warrant a suspension in his case? > > Not how reports work at all Again, not how reports work. They even stated they did a manual review of the account and found nothing wrong. They re-reviewed it after NB3 PMd the rioter, and then claimed they found "a correlation between when he does it and there being a streamer in his game", suggesting he was targetting streamers (he wasnt, its high ELO, everyones a streamer). The number of reports means nothing.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ud3Zx8Aw,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-24T06:30:43.376+0000) > > Again, not how reports work. > > They even stated they did a manual review of the account and found nothing wrong. They re-reviewed it after NB3 PMd the rioter, and then claimed they found "a correlation between when he does it and there being a streamer in his game", suggesting he was targetting streamers (he wasnt, its high ELO, everyones a streamer). The number of reports means nothing. "The number of reports means nothing." Oh so hes not innocent now?
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ud3Zx8Aw,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-06-24T01:19:00.696+0000) > > Innocent? > The dude had been reported enough over a couple of weeks to warrant a 14 day suspension. > Hes far from innocent. Thats not how reports work.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ud3Zx8Aw,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-24T01:54:21.998+0000) > > Thats not how reports work. And yet riot came out and stated that he had gotten a lot of reports over a few weeks which would warrant a suspension in his case? Not how reports work at all
Skuluton (NA)
: So, they banned someone cause he was playing something different in ranked. The guy who reported him, WITH 2 other players from his team afk'd the game. Yet, none of the adc AND mid laner had penalties. Nightblue harassed him and kept flaming him the whole time while the teemo was still playing ... 1 week after the game, nightblue gets randomly banned because of toxicity (it took riot 1 week to see the full 30min game of him afk and flaming ??) YET NB3 is still playing the game, shouting in his stream how Riot is a garbage company and how dead their game is. He is worse than Tyler1 and made me hate the game so much. It's litterally streamers like him that made flaming and ragequitting SO MUCH popular and accepted by the majority of the playerbase.
> [{quoted}](name=Skuluton,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=oZcTLl7K,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-23T20:48:07.515+0000) > > So, they banned someone cause he was playing something different in ranked. > The guy who reported him, WITH 2 other players from his team afk'd the game. Yet, none of the adc AND mid laner had penalties. > Nightblue harassed him and kept flaming him the whole time while the teemo was still playing ... > 1 week after the game, nightblue gets randomly banned because of toxicity (it took riot 1 week to see the full 30min game of him afk and flaming ??) YET NB3 is still playing the game, shouting in his stream how Riot is a garbage company and how dead their game is. > He is worse than Tyler1 and made me hate the game so much. It's litterally streamers like him that made flaming and ragequitting SO MUCH popular and accepted by the majority of the playerbase. Nubrac got banned because he had been reported dozens of times for holding games hostage by going against what the team wanted and staying mid despite people literally begging him to go sup just like what happened in the NB3 game******** And no, he isn't worse than t1 Why are people sticking their head in the sand to type comments about NB3 Its like as soon as NB3 becomes the focus of peoples mind, they become chimps overcome by blind rage and cannot help but type completely irrelevant, wrong, or stupid sentences
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ud3Zx8Aw,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-22T00:10:20.622+0000) > > Oh my god just stop > > You had your fun with nightblue. We get it, you guys like feeling accomplished over doing nothing but complaining but jesus christ when does this end? > > We could report over 50% of the global player base for going against the rules at one point or another, just live and let live bloody hell wtf Nah, this is League forums where everyone has to be toxic to riot and "expose" streamers to feel accomplished. lmao Bunch of drama queens on these boards.
> [{quoted}](name=MorgManBasher,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ud3Zx8Aw,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2019-06-22T04:42:34.102+0000) > > Nah, this is League forums where everyone has to be toxic to riot and "expose" streamers to feel accomplished. lmao > Bunch of drama queens on these boards. 100%
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=IlRGvrEY,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-22T00:02:51.646+0000) > > Didn't realize taking games hostage was okay then? > Oh, it's not? > I guess you do actually want him banned then, because you surely wouldn't blindly support someone or something because it had been presented to you in a certain way, now would you? who was taking the game hostage? The guy who sat at fountain and afk'd the rest of the game or the guy playing some annoying ass strat but still trying to win?
> [{quoted}](name=TheDevice,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=IlRGvrEY,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-06-22T04:05:21.768+0000) > > who was taking the game hostage? The guy who sat at fountain and afk'd the rest of the game or the guy playing some annoying ass strat but still trying to win? *The guy who sat at fountain and afk'd the rest of the game after two of his team mates had already afkd and the game was already decided* *or the guy playing some annoying ass strat that he had done in hundreds of games, and been reported more than a dozen times after he went against his teams wishes, held games hostage, dodged if teemo was banned, purposely ignored his team mates comms just so he could play a strat live on stream... But was still trying to win" When you tell things accurately instead of the nicely chopped up, half brain version, it becomes a whole different issue huh
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ud3Zx8Aw,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-22T00:10:20.622+0000) > > Oh my god just stop > > You had your fun with nightblue. We get it, you guys like feeling accomplished over doing nothing but complaining but jesus christ when does this end? > > We could report over 50% of the global player base for going against the rules at one point or another, just live and let live bloody hell wtf You may not care about the health of this game and the community. But we do. If you can not bring yourself to care about it, the least you can do is be quiet so the rest of us can make the game better for you and everyone else who plays it by removing the largest causes of toxicity in it.
> [{quoted}](name=Yordle Gunner,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ud3Zx8Aw,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-06-22T00:42:15.496+0000) > > You may not care about the health of this game and the community. But we do. If you can not bring yourself to care about it, the least you can do is be quiet so the rest of us can make the game better for you and everyone else who plays it by removing the largest causes of toxicity in it. What you care so much as to want someone banned who went AFK after two of his team mates already had? Give me a break dude, you people are making this out to be a civil rights issue, when its nothing more than a verbal disagreement. NB was less toxic that game than Nubrac. Nubrac held a game hostage, NB said some barely mean words. Big deal. This isn't a big deal at all. Hundreds of thousands of players do this shit daily, and you think targeting streamers is going to affect the community at ALL? Laughable
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ud3Zx8Aw,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-22T00:10:20.622+0000) > > Oh my god just stop > > You had your fun with nightblue. We get it, you guys like feeling accomplished over doing nothing but complaining but jesus christ when does this end? > > We could report over 50% of the global player base for going against the rules at one point or another, just live and let live bloody hell wtf When you get an innocent player banned, the response usually isnt too good.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ud3Zx8Aw,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-06-22T00:14:36.925+0000) > > When you get an innocent player banned, the response usually isnt too good. Innocent? The dude had been reported enough over a couple of weeks to warrant a 14 day suspension. Hes far from innocent.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=IlRGvrEY,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-22T00:02:51.646+0000) > > Didn't realize taking games hostage was okay then? > Oh, it's not? > I guess you do actually want him banned then, because you surely wouldn't blindly support someone or something because it had been presented to you in a certain way, now would you? who was taking the game hostage? The guy who sat at fountain and afk'd the rest of the game or the guy playing some annoying ass strat but still trying to win?
> [{quoted}](name=TheDevice,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=IlRGvrEY,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-06-22T04:05:21.768+0000) > > who was taking the game hostage? The guy who sat at fountain and afk'd the rest of the game or the guy playing some annoying ass strat but still trying to win? Yeah no the guy who played just under or just over a hundred games as a champion in a role everyone asked them not to, and begged all game for them to just go bot. That guy. Not the guy who went AFK after two of his teammates had. Not the one who knew the game was over. The one who actually held the game hostage. Because ya know, being able to distinguish that is a pretty easy but important.
: Proof that Tarzaned is wintrading. Time to crack down on streamers.
Oh my god just stop You had your fun with nightblue. We get it, you guys like feeling accomplished over doing nothing but complaining but jesus christ when does this end? We could report over 50% of the global player base for going against the rules at one point or another, just live and let live bloody hell wtf
JetRam (OCE)
: To the people who said "Complaining over and over won't do anything"
Congrats! You and a bunch of other people complained like children until you got what you want! And what you wanted was a hypocritical idealistic ban so you could feel better about participating in arm chair justice! Woooooo! Yeah, go democracy! This is a proud day for sure isn't it!
: You're right i don't want Nubrac on my team even though i support him.
Didn't realize taking games hostage was okay then? Oh, it's not? I guess you do actually want him banned then, because you surely wouldn't blindly support someone or something because it had been presented to you in a certain way, now would you?
: 51% winrate needs a buff?
Yes. Tone down other parts of his kit and bring out others. He does next to no damage, and if it wasn't for his passive he wouldn't ever be a viable pick because his current kit does no damage.
Destaice (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3aEv91nv,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2019-06-20T15:05:46.157+0000) > > Jesus christ you guys are either blind, ignorant or just flat out trolling. > > HIS STRATEGY ISNT EVEN ABIVE 50% WINRATE he didnt CLIMB using 2nd mid teemo. 54% winrate in season 4 57% winrate in season 5 60% winrate in season 6 57% winrate in season 7 51% winrate in season 8 Historically his Teemo play has been successful. All you're doing is putting words in people's mouths. Raging at people and projecting onto them because they have different opinions than you is really toxic behavior.
> [{quoted}](name=Destaice,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3aEv91nv,comment-id=000e00000001,timestamp=2019-06-21T12:11:07.676+0000) > > 54% winrate in season 4 > 57% winrate in season 5 > 60% winrate in season 6 > 57% winrate in season 7 > 51% winrate in season 8 > Historically his Teemo play has been successful. > > All you're doing is putting words in people's mouths. Raging at people and projecting onto them because they have different opinions than you is really toxic behavior. And in all of those seasons he didn't play teemo mid you're welcome
: Kai'Sa Favoritism much?
: i want to see the entire chat log saying "bish" is not a bannable offense but this is NA server so
> [{quoted}](name=Luther King Jr V,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kHtytAg7,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-06-21T08:09:01.635+0000) > > i want to see the entire chat log > saying "bish" is not a bannable offense but this is NA server so Yeah but the people have their corpse now, thats all they wanted from the start
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3aEv91nv,comment-id=00020000000200000000,timestamp=2019-06-21T05:42:35.760+0000) > > Teemo needs more gold than what he can get with spellthiefs to be relevant past midgame. If it comes to a situation where you can't deny an adequate amount of CS then you auto lose the game. Thats it. No ands ifs or buts. You bank the entire relevancy of this tradeoff being that you can deny enough gold to warrant the extremely choked strategy, and all it takes is the team literally looking at your strat and responding to it accordingly. Once they do that, the strat isn't viable. The strat only works if your enemy doesn't move to counter it, and if you watch any of the Nubrac videos online of his teemo support, thats exactly what happens. All the enemy teams either try to gank mid, or they ignore other avenues for leads and they auto lose because they play into it. Simply because it's new. > > All it takes to counter the teemo pick is literally the exact same strat you imply is so amazing for bot. Just farm under tower with a good/safe waveclear champ. Even then, there are more strats that would beat the teemo strat that are gonna be found, because its not hard to counter such a predictable matchup. If the strategy is effective enough that it needs to be countered, then it is indeed working, after all, that is the point of a counter-strategy. For example, the opposing support often roams mid to keep the lane even, usually at a disadvantage because they were the second to come to mid lane. Add to that that with two laners in lane, the experience penalty is negated mid laners are also not very good at farming safely from under tower. Their lane is one of the easiest to gank (being between two lanes, having weak base stats, being gold and XP dependent at the same time) I've wanted to watch Nubrac's streams but I have had trouble finding it. Would you kindly direct me to them? Other players have adopted the strategy and are seeing success with it though as a note, especially if communication occurs As for teemo's gold income, 2 extra gold per 10 seconds, 11 gold per proc up to 3 times per 30 seconds or up to 66 gold per minute with spell thief, double that to 22 with frost fang with that in mind, you can make up to 78 gold per minute with spell thief and 144 gold per minute with frost fang i'm having to look up the gold value of minions atm if the wiki is still accurate, before 15 minutes, the average gold value of a minion wave is 125 , https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Minion#Melee%20Minion so, for the first few minutes, you get roughly 3/5 of the income of the carry, then when upgraded, you can out-do their farm, then the lane phase is over and you're free to farm as your judgement indicates
> [{quoted}](name=3TWarrior,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3aEv91nv,comment-id=000200000002000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-21T05:53:25.680+0000) > > If the strategy is effective enough that it needs to be countered, then it is indeed working, after all, that is the point of a counter-strategy. For example, the opposing support often roams mid to keep the lane even, usually at a disadvantage because they were the second to come to mid lane. Add to that that with two laners in lane, the experience penalty is negated > > mid laners are also not very good at farming safely from under tower. Their lane is one of the easiest to gank (being between two lanes, having weak base stats, being gold and XP dependent at the same time) > > I've wanted to watch Nubrac's streams but I have had trouble finding it. Would you kindly direct me to them? Other players have adopted the strategy and are seeing success with it though as a note, especially if communication occurs > > As for teemo's gold income, 2 extra gold per 10 seconds, 11 gold per proc up to 3 times per 30 seconds or up to 66 gold per minute with spell thief, double that to 22 with frost fang > > with that in mind, you can make up to 78 gold per minute with spell thief and 144 gold per minute with frost fang > > i'm having to look up the gold value of minions atm > > if the wiki is still accurate, before 15 minutes, the average gold value of a minion wave is 125 , https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Minion#Melee%20Minion > > so, for the first few minutes, you get roughly 3/5 of the income of the carry, then when upgraded, you can out-do their farm, then the lane phase is over and you're free to farm as your judgement indicates "If the strategy is effective enough that it needs to be countered, then it is indeed working, after all, that is the point of a counter-strategy. " No, it isn't, and no, it's not. Every move you make in league is plays and counterplays. Saying because people have to counterplay moves that it makes X viable is a fallacy of logic. If a really bad chess player verses a really good chess player, then the good chess player will win by responding to his bad moves. A good chess player will not ignore moves, even if they are bad, because you can take advantage of bad moves, just like how easy it is to take advantage of teemo mid support. Just because I move to play in response to something, does not mean that the original move itself was good, it's just a reaction, nothing more. "For example, the opposing support often roams mid to keep the lane even, usually at a disadvantage because they were the second to come to mid lane. Add to that that with two laners in lane, the experience penalty is negated" And there you go, the game is completely equal again, and you have gained nothing from the strategy. No gold. No leads. No denial. Bravo. "mid laners are also not very good at farming safely from under tower. Their lane is one of the easiest to gank (being between two lanes, having weak base stats, being gold and XP dependent at the same time)" So justification for a game long strategy is that it has relevance within the first 10 minutes of the game? Despite the fact that there is the real possibility that you generate or hold 0 leads whatsoever? Like, I know what you're trying to get at, but again, you generate nothing for your team by using this strat. Nothing. You give the enemy a gold deficit which is completely lost upon a couple of kills and a turret, when most games have 15-30 kills on either side. You're really hedging entire matches off a 10 minute strat that generates 0 gold. "Other players have adopted the strategy and are seeing success with it though as a note, especially if communication occurs" And most new champs aren't adapted to for a whole month, whats your point? That it's somehow going to have lasting relevancy, despite Nubrac himself having less than 100 games with the strat, when literally no one knew it was happening, and when no one knew to act against it thinking it was a troll? Like I know people want this strat to happen because its new and exciting, but even maths doesn't agree that this works. As the game goes on, gold is easier and easier to get. Minion waves are worth more, cannons are worth more, and there are less towers, so the map opens up for kills to be made on top of the fact that towers are worth gold. The short term relevance of denying CS early game at personal player loss as a strategy doesn't scale into mid or late game, because A) you give no lead to you or your team mates, and B) the "lead" (gold deficit) you make is easily made back by the enemy team, simply by playing the game how its always been played. There is no logical justification for this strat to be viable in its current state, past it being good while no one understands it. Just watch as the weeks roll by and this stuff gets absolutely dumpstered just like how roaming singed got dumpstered. Remember that strat? The one that had over 60% winrate? What was it, like 63-64%? Yeah, guess what happened when lots of people tried it and we all learned about it? It was trash. People learned that it wasn't hard to anticipate what singed support would do, and no one continued it, or his pathing, because it was simply a subtier strategy. That is exactly what will happen here, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3aEv91nv,comment-id=000200000002,timestamp=2019-06-21T03:58:26.899+0000) > > Yeah and then the enemy jg hits 6 and runs bot lane like a McDonalds, then you have a useless teemo and a useless no damage ADC. > > 10/10 strat, totally not awful teemo can farm similarly to a marksman with the spell-thief line. Bounties are now adjusted by gold acquired compared to the average, meaning less farm for anyone coming to attack the solo marksman, the opponents typically have an under-powered mid-laner which is just as valuable as the carry, even more so if they have crowd control there are roughly 7 marksmen that can not farm safely, 1 is off meta. Nubrac knows the matchups and adjusts accordingly, often playing his teemo support as the traditional bottom lane teemo support if his laner could not survive and farm alone the strategy itself is perfectly viable, after all, your own jungler can now focus more on top and bottom lane after all, the OVEREXTENDED bottom lane, the likely OUT OF MANA bottom lane from all of their harass tactics
> [{quoted}](name=3TWarrior,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3aEv91nv,comment-id=0002000000020000,timestamp=2019-06-21T05:28:07.781+0000) > > teemo can farm similarly to a marksman with the spell-thief line. Bounties are now adjusted by gold acquired compared to the average, meaning less farm for anyone coming to attack the solo marksman, the opponents typically have an under-powered mid-laner which is just as valuable as the carry, even more so if they have crowd control > > there are roughly 7 marksmen that can not farm safely, 1 is off meta. Nubrac knows the matchups and adjusts accordingly, often playing his teemo support as the traditional bottom lane teemo support if his laner could not survive and farm alone > > the strategy itself is perfectly viable, after all, your own jungler can now focus more on top and bottom lane after all, the OVEREXTENDED bottom lane, the likely OUT OF MANA bottom lane from all of their harass tactics Teemo needs more gold than what he can get with spellthiefs to be relevant past midgame. If it comes to a situation where you can't deny an adequate amount of CS then you auto lose the game. Thats it. No ands ifs or buts. You bank the entire relevancy of this tradeoff being that you can deny enough gold to warrant the extremely choked strategy, and all it takes is the team literally looking at your strat and responding to it accordingly. Once they do that, the strat isn't viable. The strat only works if your enemy doesn't move to counter it, and if you watch any of the Nubrac videos online of his teemo support, thats exactly what happens. All the enemy teams either try to gank mid, or they ignore other avenues for leads and they auto lose because they play into it. Simply because it's new. All it takes to counter the teemo pick is literally the exact same strat you imply is so amazing for bot. Just farm under tower with a good/safe waveclear champ. Even then, there are more strats that would beat the teemo strat that are gonna be found, because its not hard to counter such a predictable matchup.
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Mr Meat

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