: nobody cares about context
> [{quoted}](name=ShyImagoghnar,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=N4z1O19J,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-08-23T02:42:54.666+0000) > > nobody cares about context I don't see how the community standards cannot take into account the context. Context here being upset people stuck in a losing 4v5.
: > [{quoted}](name=Revelstoke,realm=OCE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=N4z1O19J,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2019-08-23T03:09:19.833+0000) > > Again, this is a first time punishment, and my post here is to try and get something MORE specific > about where I've gone wrong than vague "you are being negative" I get that man. Im sorry im not trying to harp on you. The thing is, that excessive negativity in chat is specifically against the rules. Like, they are literally that strict. So the negative part is quite important. If you need me to point out what the specific negative things are, I will, but I think you know.
> [{quoted}](name=Telephone Booth,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=N4z1O19J,comment-id=0002000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-23T04:13:50.615+0000) > > I get that man. Im sorry im not trying to harp on you. The thing is, that excessive negativity in chat is specifically against the rules. Like, they are literally that strict. So the negative part is quite important. If you need me to point out what the specific negative things are, I will, but I think you know. Thanks for the reply, going on a bit of a tangent here, you are an active person on the boards. Does my log look like I deserve a punishment? This thing is meant to be enforcing community standards so, I'm interested in the community's input, rather than riots. I really suspect that this punishments based of my usage of the word report multiple times when I was replying to being threatened with reports, and that being flagged rather than the machine deciding this was toxic.
: > [{quoted}](name=Revelstoke,realm=OCE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=N4z1O19J,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-21T14:18:48.242+0000) > > So just and update > > > From support:- > > > > > Ok so to boil it down; I'm spamming, which apparently is just typing too much? and that's somehow punishable now? > > When the fuck did this happen? Why do you leave out the arguing with teammates and being negative when you boil it down? Thats a pretty important factor.
> [{quoted}](name=Telephone Booth,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=N4z1O19J,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-08-23T02:37:51.499+0000) > > Why do you leave out the arguing with teammates and being negative when you boil it down? Thats a pretty important factor. Again, this is a first time punishment, and my post here is to try and get something MORE specific about where I've gone wrong than vague "you are being negative"
: Annoying defeatist bullshit. Yes Riot punishes for that. You cant spend the game trying to convince your team that you cant win, sorry. And your ending comments make.me think the opposite. It was a gradual build up against your account and this game filled up your "toxicity meter" (theoretically speaking... or is it metaphorically?) and got you into punishment territory.
> [{quoted}](name=Telephone Booth,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=N4z1O19J,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-08-23T02:34:10.678+0000) > > Annoying defeatist bullshit. Yes Riot punishes for that. You cant spend the game trying to convince your team that you cant win, sorry. And your ending comments make.me think the opposite. It was a gradual build up against your account and this game filled up your "toxicity meter" (theoretically speaking... or is it metaphorically?) and got you into punishment territory. Please dont patronize me with "defeatist bullshit" it was a 4v5 game at that point, the enemy riven top was quite fed, and the stats are very clear the odds of winning a 4v5 are ~7.5% from what I've read, less if you are behind. And the Jinx who is taking her anger out on me is afking at her 2nd tower. I didnt spend the game "trying to convince them we couldnt win" I ask for a ff at 15 twice, when the nasus quits the game, and a second time just before the game ends. So I wont accept you "Sorry". Lordy, you come off as a wanker. There's no guidelines about having to sit thru 4v5's. In fact everything I've heard from Riot, eg Blaustoise is they dont want you sitting in unfair, uneven games because they increase toxicity.... case in point!! I think if you read what I wrote I'm well within acceptable behavior to point out the best thing is to ff and go next. Again, I have trouble buying this gradual build up theory, or the system is just terrible at feedback, given I just got a new honor level literally the day before.
: > [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ETlEBRfU,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-08-19T22:01:24.001+0000) > > This is why more Rioter's don't come to the boards. > > Bazerka is in the HR (i think) department (regardless, he's not Player Behavior). He has absolutely nothing more he can say/do about that than any other player on the boards does. Yet you decide to spam his "inbox" (replies) with a reply that's not only off topic for the thread but is hijacking this thread. its alright, I appreciate the sentiment but its totally ok. @Jennifer420, tbh I have no clue. Those types of things are tracked in a system and handled by a dept that I dont have access too. Unfortunately, Rioters dont have a God tool they can use to check status of things (contrary to popular belief). Sry friend :X
> [{quoted}](name=Bazerka,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ETlEBRfU,comment-id=0000000100000001,timestamp=2019-08-19T23:14:47.830+0000) > > its alright, I appreciate the sentiment but its totally ok. @Jennifer420, tbh I have no clue. Those types of things are tracked in a system and handled by a dept that I dont have access too. Unfortunately, Rioters dont have a God tool they can use to check status of things (contrary to popular belief). Sry friend :X Wow, I mean, its a shame you have no clue about PB, but ah, I think you are the first red to post in the PB forums in LITERAL years. Its definitely been 3 years since the last PB related feature, any advise on how to drum up some interest in fixing trolling / inting / feeding?
Baka Red (EUNE)
: Please note that the Rioter also said that you are being negative. That is one of the things that gets you punished once you have been negative for long enough. Personally I don't consider your logs especially negative, but there are some negative elements thrown in there. My suggetion to you is that imo you should try to avoid using chat that much in future, so you can avoid further punishment. It is meaningless to complain to your team mates; they will most likely react negatively, and that increases the probability of your team losing - and your complaints increase the risk of you getting punished. The safe way to use chat is the use only encouraging remarks and you should also be able to communicate tactics via chat (just be polite with those tactics discussions).
> [{quoted}](name=Baka Red,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=N4z1O19J,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-08-22T13:15:53.298+0000) > > Please note that the Rioter also said that you are being negative. That is one of the things that gets you punished once you have been negative for long enough. > > Personally I don't consider your logs especially negative, but there are some negative elements thrown in there. My suggetion to you is that imo you should try to avoid using chat that much in future, so you can avoid further punishment. It is meaningless to complain to your team mates; they will most likely react negatively, and that increases the probability of your team losing - and your complaints increase the risk of you getting punished. > > The safe way to use chat is the use only encouraging remarks and you should also be able to communicate tactics via chat (just be polite with those tactics discussions). Yeah, but the riot guys are really just skimming and posting templated copy. I suspect I wont or need to change much, based on the feedback I've gotten, I think ill simply remove the word report from my vocabulary, since its abundantly clear to a human I'm just replying to someone and using that word, but I'm guessing the AI's punished me thinking I'm threatening people or something. I've only started playing again in the last month or so, but after a fairly standard toxic game tonight of one player deciding he wants to go mid lane with me taxing farm and then running it down to finish 0/10/1 before disconnecting for the last 5 minutes of the game, realizing they've done nothing at all to fix this crap, but want to punish me for the immense mental anguish I must have caused with some "negative elements" to my chat. Yeah, thinking im done.
: To Riot and the Community
Ah yeah, no its not a "feels good" There are huge problems with the game that nobody's working on. IE Griefer detection and the general boards population are either such huge fanboi's or so thirsty to see anyone from riot actually posting on the boards they want to throw a celebration. There have been "meaningful threads" that want/need responses being posted on this for 4+ years Hundreds on the exact same topics in fact that are just never ever responded too.
Hotarµ (NA)
: > Just replying because I cant seem to find a source for this from riot. > > "Negativity" is unacceptable is broad enough to cover anything, and seems to be on these boards, > the go-to for you got punished, didnt cross any clear lines but we are still going to punish you. > > Seems like any conversation about a losing game state / lane state (aka every single game has one team with a losing game state) > is "Negativity" "Negativity" (for the purposes of Riot's ruleset) is generally anything where a player is voicing their displeasure or frustration with no constructive intent, be it towards a player or the game they're in. Saying something like "Man, stop fucking dying Jinx." is considered negativity whereas "Jinx, let's play safe so we can scale up."/"Jinx, try and sit back a little more." is not. Honestly, a lot of it comes down to common sense. Obviously that's subjective but most people tend to understand the ruleset upon reading the Summoner's Code, ToU/ToS, or forums like Reddit + the Boards. Even then, players are given multiple chances in the form of 4 separate punishments, starting out lightly with a 10+25 game chat restriction and then escalating from there. So whether the person agrees with the rules or not, they should be able to easily understand what is considered rulebreaking behavior and conduct themselves accordingly. As I mentioned in my previous comment towards the OP, some of their behavior in particular was pretty much textbook negativity. Calling out someone for their performance with no intent to help them, making personal attacks or insults towards their character (_ex._ "typical adc players"), and arguing back and forth with people all game (which detracts focus from the game and annoys the other players on their team) is something that most would consider rulebreaking behavior. But again, this is a light punishment. The 10 game chat restriction will be over in no time and getting Honor 0/1/2 is simple. _________ Edit: Also, forgot to mention this. One of the reasons Riot doesn't have a strict guide as to what you can and can't say is because that would act as a "guideline" of sorts for toxic players. If you know word for word what you **can't* *say, you can deduce what _is_ allowed, thereby opening up more methods to flame with.
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7rMEYJ06,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-08-22T05:21:44.482+0000) > > "Negativity" (for the purposes of Riot's ruleset) is generally anything where a player is voicing their displeasure or frustration >with no constructive intent, be it towards a player or the game they're in. Thanks for the reply, I've just been hit with a penalty (playing since s3), and I guess I am just trying to understand where this magical line is, because its not clear to me at all, a lot of common situations that are in a grey area. This is at least helpful advise for a lot of situations
: Does the report and ban system actually work, or is it just there to trick players?
Basically its a incredibly shit system that is incredibly lenient. Lots of evidence of known trolls playing 50-100 games and greifing before the system kicks in so thats up to 900 players with ruined games. There's no automated system reviewing in-game behaviour, its just adds up reports for greifing and (Im speculating) looks for other stat data. Riot wont work on it because its too hard to build it, afaik the last time they had a team looking at detecting trolling and greifing was about a year before the client update, and they ended up moving that dev team onto the client update. It was on Lyte's roadmap but just got pushed back and back because its too hard and naughty word filters are easy. That really just highlights that they really don't care about it.
Hotarµ (NA)
: You can try to submit a support ticket but you might not get the response you were hoping for. This chat log, while not egregiously toxic, does still show signs of negativity which is something that Riot considers unacceptable. Simply put, going back and forth with someone all game is pointless and detracts from your focus on the game. Mute the player and move on. On the bright side, it's only a chat restriction. It's just a light punishment, you're far from losing your account and you should have your honor back in no time as long as you keep your head up.
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7rMEYJ06,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-22T04:17:44.125+0000) > > You can try to submit a support ticket but you might not get the response you were hoping for. This chat log, while not egregiously toxic, does still show signs of negativity which is something that Riot considers unacceptable. Simply put, going back and forth with someone all game is pointless and detracts from your focus on the game. Mute the player and move on. > > On the bright side, it's only a chat restriction. It's just a light punishment, you're far from losing your account and you should have your honor back in no time as long as you keep your head up. Just replying because I cant seem to find a source for this from riot. "Negativity" is unacceptable is broad enough to cover anything, and seems to be on these boards, the go-to for you got punished, didnt cross any clear lines but we are still going to punish you. Seems like any conversation about a losing game state / lane state (aka every single game has one team with a losing game state) is "Negativity"
rujitra (NA)
: Attempting to force someone to "leave them alone" at risk of "muting". The definition of threat: >**a statement of an intention** to inflict pain, injury, damage, or **other hostile action** on someone **in retribution for something** done or **not done**.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FGG4flQa,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-20T02:55:06.092+0000) > > Attempting to force someone to "leave them alone" at risk of "muting". > > The definition of threat: Muting doesn't meet the definition of a threat; they suffer no pain, injury or damage, the "hostile action" in the definition must be seen to be relatively equal with the other definitions. A more common definition includes the terms punishment and injury rather than hostile action. Muting someone isn't either of those, they suffer no harm, this is a warning or a caution. Looking at what you call "Blaming" and "Harassment" wouldn't meet either of those definitions IRL, let alone in a video game played with internet strangers. I agree completely where you've called him out for flaming, and that's definitely below standard behavior.
: Looking for some help; first time punishment
So just and update From support:- >Hello there, > >I looked into your chat logs and I can confirm that they have not been offensive. However, you are still spamming a lot, arguing with your >teammates and being negative, which is creating a bad experience for the other players in the game. That is also the reason why you have >received only a chat restriction and not a harsher punishment. > >You have been restricted from the chat, as sending messages all the time is very distracting fro the actual purpose - playing the game. The chat >has been implemented for creating strategy, not for arguing with your teammates. > >I hope that this explains the situation. Thank you for your time and have a nice day! :) > >Kind regards, >Bobby > >Riot Games Player Support Ok so to boil it down; I'm spamming, which apparently is just typing too much? and that's somehow punishable now? When the fuck did this happen?
: Dont use chat guys, you can be banned for anything
> > Also, try to understand that negativity is not only about strong language or the usage of slurs, but is also about the general attitude you adopt during the game. If you are aggressive and argumentative in your matches, for example, you create a tense atmosphere. Let's say you are arguing with a teammate that was negative. The other teammates might be people who came to the game to unwind after a hard day at work and seeing their teammates fighting does not really help them achieve that. So that is why we must also consider such things. > What the actual fuck? You cant argue, or create a "tense atmosphere" I have to walk on egg shells because "The other teammates might be people who came to the game to unwind after a hard day at work" You are shitting me...
: How bad were my coms overall?
My logs are much milder than yours and I have a chat ban. Idk if they've cranked it up? I suspect its all because I used the word "report" after one of the other players threatened me with reporting several times.
: Looking for some help; first time punishment
So your saying the negativity, aka me saying this is "lost lost lost" and "losing losing losing" in the same game too negative? Its definitely one of the most negative things I recall saying. that said I don't understand how it crosses the line.... which i guess is what I've come to the forums looking for. I have trouble buying the constancy thing, prior to this I cant remember the last time I got into an argument. update: This thread has almost 500 views and a single comment, am I meant to read that most people this is undeserving?
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 9
How is Akali not getting looked at? Is the plan to just balance around pro until worlds?
rujitra (NA)
: You say support 80% of the time don't/can't do anything for you - what do you mean? If you make a report through the support, they investigate the report. They won't tell you what the outcome is, but they do investigate (and the report is held on file for further investigation in the future if need be). I'm not sure that Riot would take action based on a Twitch stream clip statement, however.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UkYfvrB5,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-14T01:32:20.837+0000) > > You say support 80% of the time don't/can't do anything for you - what do you mean? If you make a report through the support, they investigate the report. They won't tell you what the outcome is, but they do investigate (and the report is held on file for further investigation in the future if need be). > > I'm not sure that Riot would take action based on a Twitch stream clip statement, however. That is hilarious, in a unbelievably incompetent and bad way. You have actual footage of someone admitting to something and not punishing them. Cops don't even get away with that shit.
Larriet (NA)
: I keep stressing to people that doing *literally anything* reveals her long enough for the turret to get a shot off. She can't avoid damage from it completely if she's dealing damage.
> [{quoted}](name=Larriet,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H7Anty9P,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-07-31T00:12:31.161+0000) > > I keep stressing to people that doing *literally anything* reveals her long enough for the turret to get a shot off. She can't avoid damage from it completely if she's dealing damage. You can keep stressing that but, nobody really dives without a minion wave. Its fairly simple to move out of shroud, attack, and walk back in while the tower is between shots on said minion wave, hence avoiding all damage while fighting. Obviously we all realise it also greatly reduces the damage you would take diving without minions, as much like a zed dive you can escape "instantly" after killing your opponent, and not taking 1-2 shots on the way out.
: Client Beta Update #2: Replacing the Legacy Client
Oh good, more ways to buy skins but still no action on Tribunal, trolls and toxicity. {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}} Nice priorities guys
: > IFS is incredibly slow, so unless you have some metric on how its faster or how its more accurate you are just making unsubstantiated claims. The Tribunal took weeks or even *months* before a case *that was already prepared* was able to be processed as it waited on review. The IFS *does it within 5 minutes of the case being triggered*. Edit: sry preoccupied, I will respond to more in a bit. > This can be faster this can be more accurate You seem to be misinformed about what the IFS actually is. It reviews *cases*, it doesn't build or trigger them. Reports, the same exact ones that were used to build Tribunal cases, are the ones that build and trigger the reviews. > There are plenty of metrics on the automated system for CHAT TOXICITY but I am yet to see ANY for INTENTIONAL FEEDING By "metrics" do you simply mean "people posting their logs on the boards"? Because if you spend much time reading PB&M posts you will see intentional feeding bans almost daily; however there will *obviously* be much fewer posts about inting bans than chat offense bans because they are A) far less common of an offense, and B) the very fact that it's intentional means that the player almost assuredly knows they were in the wrong, and is very unlikely to come crying about a ban for it. > Actual trolls who are being a little bit smarter than walking down the lane, well there is no automated system so [Intentional Feeder Detection](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/i5yNt3I5-upgrading-the-intentional-feeder-detection-system) is a relatively new system and it is already notoriously difficult to prove the malicious intent even in a manual review. I will absolutely agree with you that it can be better, and so would Riot; I recommend you stay tuned for (updates to the player behavior systems](http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2017/02/ask-riot-where-is-butchers-bridge/). It's also important to note that manual reviews to still happen random to ensure accuracy of the systems, and targeted for fringe cases like people intentionally trying to avoid detection; the system is a learning one, which improves through accurate reports from the community. In the end, people say they want the Tribunal, but refuse to accept that it was inconsistent and god awful slow.
> [{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jtQsEcEb,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-22T04:51:08.450+0000) > > or how its more accurate you are just making unsubstantiated claims. > > The Tribunal took weeks or even *months* before a case *that was already prepared* was able to be processed as it waited on review. The IFS *does it within 5 minutes of the case being triggered*. > > Edit: sry preoccupied, I will respond to more in a bit. > > You seem to be misinformed about what the IFS actually is. It reviews *cases*, it doesn't build or trigger them. Reports, the same exact ones that were used to build Tribunal cases, are the ones that build and trigger the reviews. Riiight, so its no better than the triberunal voting system, and as can be shown, I've seen 50+ games of trolling, I've seen people "testing" the system by trolling for two weeks, with no action taken. You seem to have some unsubstantiated idea that its faster or more accurate, the data is still sourced from players, so its no more accurate, unless your saying its waiting until theres a overwhelming number of reports (which seems to be the case) hence, its no faster.... > but I am yet to see ANY for INTENTIONAL FEEDING > > By "metrics" do you simply mean "people posting their logs on the boards"? Because if you spend much time reading PB&M posts you will see intentional feeding bans almost daily; however there will *obviously* be much fewer posts about inting bans than chat offense bans because they are A) far less common of an offense, and B) the very fact that it's intentional means that the player almost assuredly knows they were in the wrong, and is very unlikely to come crying about a ban for it. > well there is no automated system so > I'm talking about metrics comparing Tribunal to the current IF system. Forum posts are not relevant for comparing the speed or accuracy of the systems. *Less common?* You seem to have ignored that there is no system to detect trolls whereas there is a system to detect poor behaviour in chat. You know the other thing you will see, and you see WAY more of it than people contesting ban's? Its people asking Riot to DO SOMETHING ABOUT FEEDERS AND TROLLS. > [Intentional Feeder Detection](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/i5yNt3I5-upgrading-the-intentional-feeder-detection-system) is a relatively new system and it is already notoriously difficult to prove the malicious intent even in a manual review. I will absolutely agree with you that it can be better, and so would Riot; > > In the end, people say they want the Tribunal, but refuse to accept that it was inconsistent and god awful slow. New? as in Nearly two years old?? or over 14 months since it was upgraded in any way? Also I reject your claim its "notoriously difficult" 20 seconds of watching another player; Follow the jungler around and take his farm. Start a fight then walk under turrets. Eat another player and spit him into the enemy team(tahm) Wall off half the team and run away during teamfights (anivia) Etc etc etc. These are really easy to spot for a person, and in my experience most trolls also try to stir up things in chat which helps clear up if their actions are intentional. Humans using a tribunal system can spot this behaviour **easily**. >I recommend you stay tuned for (updates to the player behavior systems](http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2017/02/ask-riot-where-is-butchers-bridge/). It's also important to note that manual reviews to still happen random to ensure accuracy of the systems, and targeted for fringe cases like people intentionally trying to avoid detection; the system is a learning one, which improves through accurate reports from the community. Ahahhaha, ahhahhahah gold. Sorry but.. Stay tuned, I've been tuned for 14 months brother. The only news in that time is confirmation they took people from PB projects to move them onto LCU and the release of the remake system. Thats it. To quote the article you linked - "We don’t have immediate plans to address champ select trolls." Stay tuned.. man that some pro-riot bias you have going on there.. :) We don't have a faster or more accurate system, we have one that cannot detect or discern when people are trolling, is very slow in triggering a review of feeders and a company that some people seem willing to give a free pass to the fact they have not done and are not doing anything about it _PS. If you have any info that they will be working on PB Systems after the LCU I would love to do see that, please post a link!!_
Tagris (NA)
: @Riot Autofill Questions and request for Analysis
Just posting, I would love to see any data on this as well, currently trying to dig something up..
: > Acutally there's 100's of people posting things like; > Bring back tribunal I just got death threats Just had 5 games with trolls Someone just followed me and stole cs Please do something about trolls Do something better about inting Etc etc Those issues were exacerbated by the Tribunal because it was excruciatingly slow and voting was not consistent. The IFS is many magnitudes faster and is actually more accurate; manual reviews are still done to handle fringe cases and randomly to ensure accuracy. Punishing players accurately and within 5 minutes of the case review has proven to be more effective for reforming negative behavior. However, that is not to say the system is perfect or that Riot is done working on it. Riot actually has work on player behavior systems lined up after the LCU is finished and they can spare the resources.
> [{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jtQsEcEb,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-21T14:06:34.501+0000) > > Bring back tribunal > I just got death threats > Just had 5 games with trolls > Someone just followed me and stole cs > Please do something about trolls > Do something better about inting > Etc etc > > Those issues were exacerbated by the Tribunal because it was excruciatingly slow and voting was not consistent. The IFS is many magnitudes faster and is actually more accurate; manual reviews are still done to handle fringe cases and randomly to ensure accuracy. Punishing players accurately and within 5 minutes of the case review has proven to be more effective for reforming negative behavior. > > However, that is not to say the system is perfect or that Riot is done working on it. Riot actually has work on player behavior systems lined up after the LCU is finished and they can spare the resources. This can be [faster](http://prnt.sc/96oiu8) this can be more [accurate](http://imgur.com/a/LtvuF#ZeJUcy7) IFS is incredibly slow, so unless you have some metric on how its faster or how its more accurate you are just making unsubstantiated claims. There's a lot of evidence people can Feed non-stop for weeks and not trigger the system. There are plenty of metrics on the automated system for CHAT TOXICITY but I am yet to see ANY for INTENTIONAL FEEDING. Perhaps this is what your actually talking about. Actual trolls who are being a little bit smarter than walking down the lane, well there is no automated system so, we are infinitely worse off than when we had Tribunal, which did detect and punish trolls. Hurray they lied about Tribunal being the next project after dynamic queue! Hurray the new client will be being bug fixed for months! Hurray we get something nobody was asking for! Good Priorities! If they had actually had kept the teams working on the new Tribunal perhaps it would be out by now and the issues with speed and consistency would be being worked on. Don't give Riot a pass on this issue, they have shitty priorities and are not listening to what the community wants. **If you have any info that they will be working on PB Systems after the LCU I would love to do some reading, please post a link!! **
: THERE IS A NEW BREED OF TROLL HIDING UNDER THE RADAR
Ok so just my 2c, Take as many screenshots as you can, (F12) and submit a support ticket under the general questions. Ask specifically for it to be forwarded to Player behaviour, and check back on the ticket to see they haven't closed it with a canned response. After all this, I have a roughly 1/3 hit rate on getting something done about really nasty and obvious trolls. Reporting using the client? That's like 1/1000 chances the system might do something. It doesn't detect trolling at all and is really bad at just catching obvious inting. There's plenty of match history's with trolls ruining 100's of games with no action taken, so don't listen to anyone who tells you different. Lastly, keep flooding the boards asking riot to do something. Don't you know there was a red in the PB board only 5 months ago!
: this board exists because the report feature works
> [{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jtQsEcEb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-21T05:47:19.193+0000) > > this board exists because the report feature works Acutally there's 100's of people posting things like; Bring back tribunal I just got death threats Just had 5 games with trolls Someone just followed me and stole cs Please do something about trolls Do something better about inting Etc etc So I'll concede it must ban some people, but its shit, just plain shit, its not catching trolls, its not catching feeders until they have ruined 100's of players games. A big portion of the community want Riot to implement **better troll and feeder detection as a priority.** We've been ignored for years, the forum posts have been stacking up that long.. No we dont care about shiny new client graphics, No we dont care about how wonderful your naughty word filter was.
colorfuI (NA)
: so the people who are banned are the ones who get mad for getting trolled? But trolls stay free? .
Its pretty hard to detect something when you have nothing in place to detect with.. No Tribunal, No automated system. A incredibly lax reporting system thats been shown to let people keep playing after 20/30/70+ games of 1:10 kda's
: > [{quoted}](name=Revelstoke,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zWHEfq0A,comment-id=000200010000000000010001000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-13T15:19:46.058+0000) > > Agreed, I assume your coinciding the point, that some people will end up with more > trolls on their team than the enemy team and some will end up with less, after X games > and if you graphed a decent sample size you would have a standard distribution. You'd have to have more trolls on your team and less on the enemy team to have a negative impact on your games. Seeing how it's more likely to have more trolls on the enemy team we are talking about a super small group. > 11%, I'm sure you could stop being lazy and do (5/9) - (4/9) > > Its not just severe, there's a whole spectrum of advantage and disadvantage, again > the standard distribution Two different event's need to happen at the same time: A: you need to have significantly more trolls on your team than average B: you need to have significantly less trolls on the enemy team than average One does not imply the other which means that you have to multiply the chances of each happening. > Yes, and then you multiply moderately unlucky by 67 million players > and the numbers are big. Sure, but even their rank isn't going to be affected that much because they can just snowball against worse players due to the artificially low MMR. > Explain. You missed a step, but this post clarified it. > Oh I'm saying there will be an equal number of people who get LUCKY > ie, 1 game of 100 with a troll, but there's also a person getting 9 games > out of a hundred with a troll. (if you used my numbers, with 4.5/100 being average) > > And if you pick two random players out of the 67 million, > yes, most will have 4 trolls on their team in 100 games (auto losses) > and 6 trolls on the enemy team (free wins) > > But there's going to be millions who get and 6 losses and 4 wins. > Then a few less million who get 7 losses and 3 wins. > Until you get to the really lucky/unlucky few I agree with that. But even if you are somewhat unlucky the impact doesn't seem huge. And to be one of these really unlucky ones over 300 or so games.. Well, that doesn't seem to happen too often. > Ok, you cant prove your statements about negativity and how the game is going, but > even if you could, you cant control the other 9 people in the game being > negative, and also the game is setup for 1 winner / 1 loser > > ie one team is not going to be doing as well, in every single game The only one that could do that is Riot - and they confirmed it with their loading screen wisdoms ("toxic players have xx% more negative encounters than others" or sth like that, I am sure you know it) It's not about control, it's about influence. Have a taste of my 0/8 Orianna that I had in a recent game (she has been flaming a lot over the course of that game): http://imgur.com/VHGYbYN You can probably not win every game with a troll, but you can prevent many people from trolling/being toxic just by having a good attitude. > Tell me how your better than average-ness and positivism > would stop you getting [this guy](http://imgur.com/a/LtvuF#ZeJUcy7) on your team? > > http://imgur.com/a/LtvuF#ZeJUcy7 > > At this point i think your just shitposting. It'd be so convenient if I had said that you can win every game - because if I had said that you would've just destroyed me. But I didn't say that, so there is that. > I agree, its pointless, really we should be flooding the boards asking riot to do > something about players who troll and int. Are you implying that they don't? Or that they don't do enough? From my experience with the most drastic trolls they get banned pretty quickly. > But I do think its quite possible the OP is actually just having > a unlucky streak of trolls and inting, and I do think they have > way too much control of who wins or loses the game, something > else I blame riot for. Judging by his match history he is mostly doing well recently and winning his games, but he has occasionally a phase where he is a big part of the reason why he loses (mostly when he plays offrole).
> [{quoted}](name=404 shitlord,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zWHEfq0A,comment-id=0002000100000000000100010000000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-13T17:01:39.721+0000) > > You'd have to have more trolls on your team and less on the enemy team to have a negative impact on your games. > Seeing how it's more likely to have more trolls on the enemy team we are talking about a super small group. > > Two different event's need to happen at the same time: > A: you need to have significantly more trolls on your team than average > B: you need to have significantly less trolls on the enemy team than average > > One does not imply the other which means that you have to multiply the chances of each happening. > One last try, and then I give up trying to explain it. I have assumed for simplicitys sake there can only be one troll per game Therefore there are 3 types of games. No trolls A troll on your team A troll on the enemy team. I said given a 1% population and assuming you aren't the troll (at this point I'm questioning if you are the troll) after 100 games on average; 90 No trolls X games with a troll on my team Y games with a troll on the enemy team X+Y = 10 They are not two separate events because we already ruled out the games without a troll in them. So yes, ONE DOES IMPLY THE OTHER. > Sure, but even their rank isn't going to be affected that much because they can just snowball against worse players due to the artificially low MMR. > You are just saying you can fight back against having a streak of bad luck. No, you cant fight luck. I do believe that if you have a bad run and it pushes you down the ladder that you should be able to win more of the games **without a troll** and therefore climb back more rapidly. Assuming your not perma tilted. > You missed a step, but this post clarified it. > > I agree with that. But even if you are somewhat unlucky the impact doesn't seem huge. And to be one of these really unlucky ones over 300 or so games.. Well, that doesn't seem to happen too often. > I have math, you keep posting arbitrary statements like "Well, that doesn't seem to happen too often." I'm going to stick with my math And yes quite naturally you are probably part of the 60 million players who aren't Lucky or Unlucky, not the One or two million who are. You cant downplay the difference between a 5% change in your win rate. EG; A 49% winrate vs 54% winrate. > The only one that could do that is Riot - and they confirmed it with their loading screen wisdoms ("toxic players have xx% more negative encounters than others" or sth like that, I am sure you know it) > > It's not about control, it's about influence. Have a taste of my 0/8 Orianna that I had in a recent game (she has been flaming a lot over the course of that game): > > http://imgur.com/VHGYbYN > > You can probably not win every game with a troll, but you can prevent many people from trolling/being toxic just by having a good attitude. > I can totally agree with all of that. Would you not agree that the chance of someone being positive and stopping their teammates from trolling also exist on the other team? Assuming you can agree that positive people exist on both teams, wouldn't the effect cancel out? So just less trolls appearing on both sides. > It'd be so convenient if I had said that you can win every game - because if I had said that you would've just destroyed me. > > But I didn't say that, so there is that. > Agreed > Are you implying that they don't? Or that they don't do enough? From my experience with the most drastic trolls they get banned pretty quickly. > To your questions; The Riot Player Behaviour team hasn't released anything in 18 months, **Riot haven't delivered on Tribunal**, which they promised would be the next thing after the updated champion select, **They have moved staff off the current Player Behaviour "project" 6 months ago to help with updating the client. **(the dev who posted is deliberately vague) **They have done very little about trolls up to this point, and they continue to do very little.** You did see the image? No, Banning is not fast, banning is extremely slow even in cases where its 95%+ losses, even when the person is getting reported every game. [This is one of my favorites ](http://prnt.sc/96oiu8) This guy played ~70 games of Tahm kench and spent them spitting his teammate to his death and wasnt banned till someone started a forum thread begging for intervention. Riot haven't updated leavebuster in over a year. http://prnt.sc/96oiu8 I've seen no evidence, no stats, no numbers to show that trolls are banned in a timely fashion. Riot have some really shitty priorities, reducing trolling and afk should be up the top, there's whole sub-board asking for it (PB) Nobody was begging for an updated client graphic. **So yes, trolls have way too much power to effect the outcome of games, there are way too many of them** (25% of games, add in D/C's, afk's and your at ~37% of games effected) > Judging by his match history he is mostly doing well recently and winning his games, but he has occasionally a phase where he is a big part of the reason why he loses (mostly when he plays offrole).
: Garen is rather weak right now and completely unviable for high tier play. He will never receive significant buffs because his power is all focused on excessively simple mechanics that lack what people call "counterplay". That is what I am saying.
> [{quoted}](name=Arya Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aXIGAYiK,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2017-02-13T15:53:09.926+0000) > > Garen is rather weak right now and completely unviable for high tier play. He will never receive significant buffs because his power is all focused on excessively simple mechanics that lack what people call "counterplay". That is what I am saying. Ah, well, I play him a lot Gold,Silver,Bronze and he's fine, imho No he isnt God tier, but neither is he trash tier. Are there Garen challenger players, Yes. There's really only a couple of champions per position that are played at a really high level, 3-4 adc's, 3-4 jungler's Garen's not in there, neither is Yi or Volibear. I think his villain mechanic is a pretty big waste of his power budget EG; yay i can deal true damage to the enemy adc, shame i wont be anywhere near him for 10 minutes :( Scaling silence on his Q, Tenacity on his E. Bring those back.
: Why Garen is just "Worse Darius", power budgeting and fallibility
Are you saying he is weak? Or his power budget is spread poorly over his abilities? or both? I dont think he is weak, he's vulnerable to kiting, not really a problem for 95% of us. I feel like you just dont like his kit, you can make all the same statements about Master Yi, yes his kit is super simple, no you cant stuff it up, there are no skill shots but whats the difference between a good and a bad Yi.. Positioning. A huge part of league is about positioning for teamfights, tower dives, laning. The difference between a good and bad player on these champs is their positioning. The difference between a good Morgana or blitzcrank is landing skillshots. I dont think we want every champion in league to be focused on skillshots do we? When I'm playing top i would rather have a super simple kit with nothing to keep track of so I can look for TP's and management of the wave to setup freezes. Just my 2c
: > [{quoted}](name=Revelstoke,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zWHEfq0A,comment-id=0002000100000000000100010000000200000000,timestamp=2017-02-11T02:28:49.566+0000) > > I'm trying to explain a Standard deviation looks like - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation You still made the numbers for the respective groups up. > I'm not talking about " the chance for you team being significantly worse than the other team " > I'm **not talking about matchmaking at all**, lets stick to the actual argument, about trolls/feeders If you ignore the consequences then you can't complain about the consequences. > Since I'm talking about trolls/feeders, and it doesn't matter if your climbing, falling or staying in the same spot you are still going to get them in your games. But you can't say that they affect your rank then. > Yes, the math has been done, we are saying the math shows > there's going to be million's players having MORE trolls/feeders/inting > on their teams, than the enemy teams had. > > **I'm saying its not as simple as 4/5 vs 5/5, and I'm saying > thats a bad oversimplification that you should stop using.** No, the fact that the enemy team has 1 more potential troll IMMENSELY affects the likelyhood of them having more trolls in the enemy team than in your team. That has severe consequences: yes you could be one of the unlucky people - but it's very unlikely. > And I'm not talking about the 1 in 67 million guy who has a troll in his team every single game he ever plays. Even being moderately unlucky is very unlikely. > Roll a 9 sided dice 10 times(representing the 10/100 games with a troll/dc/feeder in it) > and count up the 1-4(your team) and the 5-9(enemy team) > Now repeat this 70 million times (representing leagues 70m players) Firstly, how exactly is the 10/100 games ratio represented? Only one of the 10 rolls counts? > Now tell me how many people ended up with more than 5 (half their games) 1-4 rolls. > These are the people who had more trolls than the enemy team over 100 games. Over 100 games? What? This makes no sense at all. > Telling them to feel better because the average player has less > does not help or mean anything to them. > Guess what, math shows there's millions of people who play 100 games and > have more trolls/inting on their team than the enemy teams did over those 100 games. > > Should be a big surprise to nobody. No, the way you set the dice up is super flawed. Also, what is the point of you telling them that they are just unlucky - some may be unlucky (although you are just guessing the actual numbers) but many here complain while not actually being unlucky. Getting better helps - also, you are still implying that the chance of having a troll is static. It's not. It's incredibly affected by a: negativity and b: how the game is going. If you are better than average and also a positive person the chance of having a troll in your teams is probably more than halfed. You are focusing on something completely pointless instead of just telling people that they deserve their elo (VERY VERY likely) and should just get better. Even if they were the chosen unlucky one, being told that they are doesn't help them.
> [{quoted}](name=404 shitlord,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zWHEfq0A,comment-id=00020001000000000001000100000002000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-11T10:57:40.146+0000) > > You still made the numbers for the respective groups up. Agreed, I assume your coinciding the point, that some people will end up with more trolls on their team than the enemy team and some will end up with less, after X games and if you graphed a decent sample size you would have a standard distribution. > > If you ignore the consequences then you can't complain about the consequences. > Put that in a sentence, other than if your ignore the rain you cant complain about being wet. > But you can't say that they affect your rank then. > > No, the fact that the enemy team has 1 more potential troll IMMENSELY affects the likelyhood of them having more trolls in the enemy team than in your team. That has severe consequences: yes you could be one of the unlucky people - but it's very unlikely. > 11%, I'm sure you could stop being lazy and do (5/9) - (4/9) Its not just severe, there's a whole spectrum of advantage and disadvantage, again the standard distribution > Even being moderately unlucky is very unlikely. Yes, and then you multiply moderately unlucky by 67 million players and the numbers are big. > > Firstly, how exactly is the 10/100 games ratio represented? Only one of the 10 rolls counts? No, thats based on 1% of the total population being trolls or inting. Much less than riots numbers of 2.5-3%. 1 troll out of every 100 players, 10 players per game, on average every 10 games has a troll. And as this number goes up, so do the number of people in "Elo Hell" aka getting way more trolls on their team than the other team. > > Over 100 games? What? This makes no sense at all. > You brought up 100 games did you not? Seemed like a nice easy number to theorycraft, could be 3 months of someone's climb, like the Original Poster... > No, the way you set the dice up is super flawed. > Explain. > Also, what is the point of you telling them that they are just unlucky - some may be unlucky (although you are just guessing the actual numbers) but many here complain while not actually being unlucky. > Oh I'm saying there will be an equal number of people who get LUCKY ie, 1 game of 100 with a troll, but there's also a person getting 9 games out of a hundred with a troll. (if you used my numbers, with 4.5/100 being average) And if you pick two random players out of the 67 million, yes, most will have 4 trolls on their team in 100 games (auto losses) and 6 trolls on the enemy team (free wins) But there's going to be millions who get and 6 losses and 4 wins. Then a few less million who get 7 losses and 3 wins. Until you get to the really lucky/unlucky few > Getting better helps - also, you are still implying that the chance of having a troll is static. It's not. It's incredibly affected by a: negativity and b: how the game is going. > Ok, you cant prove your statements about negativity and how the game is going, but even if you could, you cant control the other 9 people in the game being negative, and also the game is setup for 1 winner / 1 loser ie one team is not going to be doing as well, in every single game > If you are better than average and also a positive person the chance of having a troll in your teams is probably more than halfed. You are focusing on something completely pointless instead of just telling people that they deserve their elo (VERY VERY likely) and should just get better. Even if they were the chosen unlucky one, being told that they are doesn't help them. Tell me how your better than average-ness and positivism would stop you getting [this guy](http://imgur.com/a/LtvuF#ZeJUcy7) on your team? http://imgur.com/a/LtvuF#ZeJUcy7 At this point i think your just shitposting. I agree, its pointless, really we should be flooding the boards asking riot to do something about players who troll and int. Except, we are, and they dont. But I do think its quite possible the OP is actually just having a unlucky streak of trolls and inting, and I do think they have way too much control of who wins or loses the game, something else I blame riot for. :(
: I'm not the Malzahar expert (don't even know how to spell his name) but a lot of our team is out at the moment so I'll try my best to provide context in the meantime. The changes are intended to affect his support performance more than mid, but it is inevitable that any nerf at all will affect both. That being said, Malzahar mid has been in a very comfortable (often, TOO comfortable) spot for a long time and I would personally expect him to still be in the upper half of midlaners across Bronze->Diamond in terms of pure power level despite the nerf.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Aesah,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=BadpFVys,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-02-08T21:44:00.246+0000) > > I'm not the Malzahar expert (don't even know how to spell his name) but a lot of our team is out at the moment so I'll try my best to provide context in the meantime. > > The changes are intended to affect his support performance more than mid, but it is inevitable that any nerf at all will affect both. That being said, Malzahar mid has been in a very comfortable (often, TOO comfortable) spot for a long time and I would personally expect him to still be in the upper half of midlaners across Bronze->Diamond in terms of pure power level despite the nerf. Any response to the community saying that his W change since 6.24 is complete garbage?
: Randomness can be mitigated by repetition. If someone happens to be in the 1% that has surpasses the statistically significant realm of having an impactful number of afk/troll losses that were out of their control than the average, this can always (and when I say always, I mean _always_) be solved by playing more ranked games. The larger the sample size, the less being in the bottom 1% of unlucky players means, and it eventually becomes nigh-on-impossible to be anything but completely average in terms of games lost by afk/trolling. I'm about to drop some hot probability and statistics on you so i hope you brought your math brain to the boards. Let's say that on average you lose 5% of games because of afks/trolls. (This is an arbitrary and heavily exaggerated reference point that will be taken as fact for the following examples, so don't hold any of this as true. The principle still applies, but this exact value does not hold any ground in reality.) Out of 20 ranked games, it is expected that 1 will have been lost because of an afk or troll on your team. If you have lost 15% of your ranked games this way (3 games), you are fairly unlucky, as only 1 out of every 50 players experiences this level of bad luck or worse in their first 20 games. If you have lost 20% of your games this way (4 games), you are extraordinarily unlucky, as this only has a 1 in 1000 chance of happening. So you've fallen on hard times. What do you do? You play more ranked games. Your sample of ranked games as a player is now 40, and on average 2 ranked games will be lost unfairly. Now the odds of having lost 15% (6) of your ranked games is 1 in 500. The odds of being in this rough patch is now 10 times smaller after merely doubling the sample size. The same pattern goes for losing 20% (8) of your ranked games this way, which is now 1 in 150,000... 150 times less likely. The effect is strongly magnified the more games you play. At 100 ranked games, 449,999 out of 450,000 will have had 15% of their games lost. At 200, it is safe to assume that 15% or less of your games have been unfairly lost as a certainty, because the odds against are 1 in 23 billion. If you think you've had a disproportionately large number of your ranked game lost, play more ranked games. If you play enough, it becomes statistically impossible to have anything but a statistically average number of unfair losses (and undeserved wins) in your career. Then you have no excuse to be at the ELO you are in other than how well you play.
> [{quoted}](name=SzGamer227,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zWHEfq0A,comment-id=0004000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-08T03:12:11.448+0000) > > Let's say that on average you lose 5% of games because of afks/trolls. (This is an arbitrary and heavily exaggerated reference point that will be taken as fact for the following examples, so don't hold any of this as true. The principle still applies, but this exact value does not hold any ground in reality.) I'm interested in your take on my post above http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/zWHEfq0A-message-to-all-players-gold-and-lower?show=flat&comment=0002000100000000000100010000000200000000 But a couple things, riot put out the numbers the chance of losing with an afk/troll is huge, like 25-40% more likely, its buried in one of lytes whitepapers. Is it not more applicable to work out the chances of the troll being on your team? You've worked out the odds of being 3 times worse than average. What about the guy who loses just 5/100 games unfairly? A 5% change in your win-rate has a huge effect on your climb. I'm much more interested in how many players run into more trolls over 100 games. Caveats being one troll per game(just to keep it simple), 2-3% of pop (riots data) My workings show (assuming they are correct) you have millions of players who lose more than the average number of games. 100 games, 10 with trolls, the average player having 4 or 5 of those games lost and 5 or 6 free wins, but with 70+ million players there's a big pool who are losing 6-10 games and only 4 to Nil free wins.
: > With leagues amount of players there's going to be 3 groups of players > Group A is the average it gets the 45/55% split you mentioned. > Group B are lucky, they get only 30% of the trolls/feeders/afks > Group C gets shafted, they get 70% of the trolls/feeders/afks Those are some random numbers. > There are MILLIONS of players in groups B and C. No. > And saying "decent" amount of games, well that's just lazy, 100's, > hundreds of games are needed before you start seeing these > averages, there's going to be a lot of people in group A, who are > just having bad streaks of 10/20/30 games. Okay, imagine this, the chance for you team being significantly worse than the other team is 1/6 (like a dice). Now think about the chance for it to happen twice in a row. Right. 1/6 x 1/6. And now 30 times in a row. 1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6 ..... Now you do the math, what are the chances? Okay and now think what would happen after 10 games? Your MMR would sink drastically, that means you are getting matched against even worse players in average. Your team would need to be even worse in comparison to the other team because your skill is significantly above average now. That means it would be more like 1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6... x 1/7 x 1/7 x ... 1/8 etc. Sure, you could have a 30 games losing spree only due to your bad luck.. But you could also win the lottery, get struck by lightning, win a penis enlargement and .. win the lottery again?
> [{quoted}](name=404 shitlord,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zWHEfq0A,comment-id=000200010000000000010001000000020000,timestamp=2017-02-07T17:53:44.040+0000) > > Those are some random numbers. > I'm trying to explain a Standard deviation looks like - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation > No. Yes. > > Okay, imagine this, the chance for you team being significantly worse than the other team is 1/6 (like a dice). > Now think about the chance for it to happen twice in a row. > Right. 1/6 x 1/6. > And now 30 times in a row. 1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6 ..... > I'm not talking about " the chance for you team being significantly worse than the other team " I'm **not talking about matchmaking at all**, lets stick to the actual argument, about trolls/feeders Also, those are some random numbers > Now you do the math, what are the chances? > > Okay and now think what would happen after 10 games? Your MMR would sink drastically, that means you are getting matched against even worse players in average. Your team would need to be even worse in comparison to the other team because your skill is significantly above average now. > That means it would be more like 1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6... x 1/7 x 1/7 x ... 1/8 etc. > > Sure, you could have a 30 games losing spree only due to your bad luck.. But you could also win the lottery, get struck by lightning, win a penis enlargement and .. win the lottery again? Since I'm talking about trolls/feeders, and it doesn't matter if your climbing, falling or staying in the same spot you are still going to get them in your games. Yes, the math has been done, we are saying the math shows there's going to be million's players having MORE trolls/feeders/inting on their teams, than the enemy teams had. **I'm saying its not as simple as 4/5 vs 5/5, and I'm saying thats a bad oversimplification that you should stop using.** And I'm not talking about the 1 in 67 million guy who has a troll in his team every single game he ever plays. If you want a story about dice; Roll a 9 sided dice 10 times(representing the 10/100 games with a troll/dc/feeder in it) and count up the 1-4(your team) and the 5-9(enemy team) Now repeat this 70 million times (representing leagues 70m players) Now tell me how many people ended up with more than 5 (half their games) 1-4 rolls. These are the people who had more trolls than the enemy team over 100 games. Telling them to feel better because the average player has less does not help or mean anything to them. TLDR; Guess what, math shows there's millions of people who play 100 games and have more trolls/inting on their team than the enemy teams did over those 100 games. Should be a big surprise to nobody.
: Yes, it's true that some games are just impossible to carry. But the thing is, the enemy team is (in average) just as stupid as your teammates. That means (in average) you will have 4 bonobos in your team, they will have 5. Assuming that you aren't the bonobo yourself, of course. That means over a decent amount of games you HAVE to climb - unless you are not better than your teammates.
> [{quoted}](name=404 shitlord,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zWHEfq0A,comment-id=0002000100000000000100010000,timestamp=2017-02-06T17:04:14.114+0000) > > Yes, it's true that some games are just impossible to carry. > But the thing is, the enemy team is (in average) just as stupid as your teammates. That means (in average) you will have 4 bonobos in your team, they will have 5. Assuming that you aren't the bonobo yourself, of course. > > That means over a decent amount of games you HAVE to climb - unless you are not better than your teammates. Please stop posting this oversimplified bad math. With leagues amount of players there's going to be 3 groups of players Group A is the average it gets the 45/55% split you mentioned. Group B are lucky, they get only 30% of the trolls/feeders/afks Group C gets shafted, they get 70% of the trolls/feeders/afks There are MILLIONS of players in groups B and C. And saying "decent" amount of games, well that's just lazy, 100's, hundreds of games are needed before you start seeing these averages, there's going to be a lot of people in group A, who are just having bad streaks of 10/20/30 games.
: I've brought up Zyra before and stuff
Malz has been clunky to play and much weaker after your random change in 6.23 to his W after his rework. His chaining voidlings we're great, the new stored charge version is garbage, and as far as I know there wasn't even any reasoning behind it.. just someone random, **lets make him hard to use, that counts as a nerf right! ** Patch notes say the changes are to make his damage less "confusing" Leaves out gutting his waveclear. Chat with the playtest team is also a fucking joke, didnt get a single answer about the Malz changes. Revert him to his reworked state W or back to pre-rework.
: Crack down on Intentional Feeders and AFKers
Ah another post that's just as relevant today as it was 4 years ago.
: I don't even troll, but if you BM me in a normal I'm going to make sure we lose in an undetectable fashion. I don't help toxic kids have fun. In ranked I'll put up with it cause I want ELO, draft normals should be deleted from the game straight up.
> [{quoted}](name=Morality Coach,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=uQMFZ11B,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-12-15T23:57:58.920+0000) > > I'm going to make sure we lose > [{quoted}](name=Morality Coach,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=uQMFZ11B,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-12-15T23:57:58.920+0000) > > I don't even troll ?
: Another new champion, another 'Please disable new champions in Ranked queue for 1-2 patches' thread.
You will get play and data on her power levels from Normals as well.
: Another new champion, another 'Please disable new champions in Ranked queue for 1-2 patches' thread.
Exactly, while there's some merit to "people only play ranked" **We KNOW riot releases unbalance champions**, and it takes a patch or two for them to sort out OP/UP and bug issues. Why not have them sort that out while not effecting ranked play..
Rioter Comments
: Patch Chat with the Playtest Team - 6.23, Shyvana, Anivia, and Malzahar mini-updates
> [{quoted}](name=Ghostwing,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=AfkzYAfg,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-11-25T13:19:04.293+0000) > > So... how did the Malz change turn out (on PBE)? Are there stats, maybe even average cs-ing with those changes? ^^ Some days ago there was a thread that had some legit concerns about the W change. Did that one get your attention? > While i know the void swarming maybe was a little too much...zerg... i feel like these changes go the wrong way to fix the problem, neither the AS nor the execute was in any way too op imo. It was that the numbers got high very quickly and easily. > Nerfing how easy it was to get multiple voidlings in some way (the minion multiply, the time change for when they do multiply) might have been enough. Staying closer to them for MS buff is also legit, but i´m still asking myself why the execute/AS change? How are your experiences? Is csing harder now? Do you still get a good voidling stack though it might be harder? And is the Healthpoint System better or worse? > Bump. Any feedback on the Malz changes. They dont feel great imho
: I always hold the game hostage in normals if my team BMs me. Never BM someone that is better than you in a normal. They probably know how to throw without setting off the feedback system.
> [{quoted}](name=Morality Coach,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=uQMFZ11B,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-12-12T19:22:53.245+0000) > > I always hold the game hostage in normals if my team BMs me. > > Never BM someone that is better than you in a normal. They probably know how to throw without setting off the feedback system. Wow, just baffled you can get away with talking about this on the forum, so blase. Then again, yeah there's no system for picking up trolling so, I guess we just have to live with this behavior. Good job Rito! Good Priorities!
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Exobiocytosis,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YGWGHs9v,comment-id=00030000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-12-10T21:31:46.843+0000) > > Then there is no point to this board, if people are restricted from sharing what they truly think. People can share what they think so long as they do so in a respectful manner and don't resort to insults and name-calling whenever people disagree with them.
> [{quoted}](name=Prandine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YGWGHs9v,comment-id=000300000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-10T21:36:46.419+0000) > > People can share what they think so long as they do so in a respectful manner and don't resort to insults and name-calling whenever people disagree with them. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
SSJTribe (NA)
: You're really twisting his words, so I am assuming this is just trollbait. But anyway, what he's getting at is not a "that was dumb" one time comment, but rather referring to the op's statement of >If i want to tell my teammates off, then I should be able to. Stop trying to micro manage human behavior. So your situation would be more akin to: **Teammate - makes mistake Teammate2- "that was f--- dumb you God da---- ret----. KYS you are worse than Hitler and are holding me and this company back." (while in a situation where at least 4, up to 9 other employees can hear this) SmilingHR - "You insulted this person, you're fired, collect your things, you have 10 minutes"** And yes, that would happen in real life.
> [{quoted}](name=SSJTribe,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YGWGHs9v,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-12T17:54:40.127+0000) > > You're really twisting his words, so I am assuming this is just trollbait. But anyway, what he's getting at is not a "that was dumb" one time comment, but rather referring to the op's statement of > > So your situation would be more akin to: > **Teammate - makes mistake > Teammate2- "that was f--- dumb you God da---- ret----. KYS you are worse than Hitler and are holding me and this company back." (while in a situation where at least 4, up to 9 other employees can hear this) > SmilingHR - "You insulted this person, you're fired, collect your things, you have 10 minutes"** > > And yes, that would happen in real life. You have just likened telling someone off for a mistake and statements like KYS. He has likened insulting someone and getting fired / escorted off the premise. I am not suggesting telling a colleague at work to KYS would not get you fired, but then again, neither is the OP of this topic. So I would suggest "twisting words" is something he is doing, at a minimum he's taking a very extreme interpretation.
: The ticket system should only ever be a last resort in cases where your client crashed and you weren't able to report post-match. It's better for everyone if players report using the post-match report system because then all of those reports are processed by the automated Tribunal which allows for punishments and escalations to be done appropriately. Using a ticket means nothing goes thru that system so the reports may not be weighed correctly. Also keep in mind, with tens of millions of players playing the game, filing a ticket for a report can create a huge backlog of behavior review meaning the person you're reporting may not be punished for quite a while allowing them to continue being a problem in more games. Utilizing the automated Tribunal means things happen much more quickly, instantly in some cases. Encouraging people to use that system while discouraging the use of tickets is actually them doing everything they can to fight negative behavior quickly and efficiently for the benefit of all players.
> [{quoted}](name=TheCurator,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=izn7EHaz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-12-10T20:41:57.166+0000) > Utilizing the automated Tribunal means things happen much more quickly, instantly in some cases. > Curator, do you have anything to support that statement? If so I would love to see it, I am actually very interested. In support of my statement is this; http://prnt.sc/96oiu8 70+ troll games that occurred after the last update to improve feeder detection. This guy played 4-5 games a day for 2 weeks, mostly as tahm kench, spitting teammates to their death. They we're eventually banned after this was posted on the boards. So I have trouble believing the system does anything to stop **trolls and very little to stop intentional feeders** until they have ruined 100's of games / caused 1000's of bad experiences. Build the system, then ask us to stop manual reports. Not the other way around.
: >So yeah, given you wouldnt answer my question, I would think your post is actually just forum trashtalk You can think what you will, its not as if I care...or as if anyone agrees with you. I will not release any personal information on my game account, that's a basic, especially not to satiate the curiosity of random people online. >I feel sorry for you, it sounds like if anyone has some kind of emotional reaction they are instantly fired (again not reality) Way to ignore what I actually wrote, kudos. I guess when you find yourself out of arguments, you have to make up stuff. Build your strawmen elsewhere.
> [{quoted}](name=Martensitic,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YGWGHs9v,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-12T08:45:08.811+0000) > > You can think what you will, its not as if I care...or as if anyone agrees with you. > I will not release any personal information on my game account, that's a basic, especially not to satiate the curiosity of random people online. > > Way to ignore what I actually wrote, kudos. I guess when you find yourself out of arguments, you have to make up stuff. Build your strawmen elsewhere. Haha, sorry cant help but feed a troll.. I asked what industry you are in and which country. Neither of those is personal information, since by definition I cant reasonably ascertain your identity from them. I haven't ignored what your've written, I've questioned it's validity. "you insult your work collegue because he makes a mistake. Next thing you know, you have the smiling face of a Human-Resources Manager in front of you, telling you that you have 10 minutes to pack your things before security escorts you off premises." I have trouble believing this is grounded in any reality. #Teammate - makes mistake #Teammate2- "that was dumb" #SmilingHR - "You insulted this person, your fired, collect your things, you have 10 minutes" aka, not reality {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} *as an aside, I dont agree with the OP (or you), so we're wandering a fair bit here.
: Then I pity whatever industry you work in.
> [{quoted}](name=Martensitic,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YGWGHs9v,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2016-12-10T13:53:23.312+0000) > > Then I pity whatever industry you work in. I feel sorry for you, it sounds like if anyone has some kind of emotional reaction they are instantly fired (again not reality) So yeah, given you wouldnt answer my question, I would think your post is actually just forum trashtalk
: >As for the adults who get upset because someone yells at them, tough fucking shit. Grow some thicker skin and don't give me god damn attitude because you want me to "be nice" when I type something, as if its not important to type quickly as possible to get back to focusing on the game. Oh look, its another "tough guy", cowering in fear behind his internet anonymity. Lets tell you how the real world works sunshine: Assuming you work at a company, you insult your work collegue because he makes a mistake. Next thing you know, you have the smiling face of a Human-Resources Manager in front of you, telling you that you have 10 minutes to pack your things before security escorts you off premises. That is how the real world works. Because mistakes happen and can be corrected. A bad mood at the workplace lowers productivity for EVERYONE, and no manager wants that to happen. And you know that, don't you? You are not argueing for the good of the community here. You argue for your little insult-parlour, where you can pretend to be a "tough guy" by insulting people, to compensate for the fact that in everyday life, that would have consequences. Well too bad for you. Same rules apply here. Either accept that, or get banned. Your choice.
> [{quoted}](name=Martensitic,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YGWGHs9v,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-12-10T06:12:20.081+0000) > > > Lets tell you how the real world works sunshine: Assuming you work at a company, you insult your work collegue because he makes a mistake. Next thing you know, you have the smiling face of a Human-Resources Manager in front of you, telling you that you have 10 minutes to pack your things before security escorts you off premises. > > That is how the real world works. I'm sorry, where on earth do you live and what industry are you in? This is so far from reality anywhere I've worked or consulted at in the last 10 years on 3 continents.
: ... ... ... Use the **General Questions** category, not Feedback. And yes, you are encouraged to make the post-game reporting feature your priority option; if the report is something the Instant Feedback System should be handling they will not likely waste their time investigating a ticket report. Your reports help identify toxic behavior to the system, and circumventing it undermines that.
> [{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=izn7EHaz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-10T05:39:21.463+0000) > > ... > ... > ... > > Use the **General Questions** category, not Feedback. And yes, you are encouraged to make the post-game reporting feature your priority option; if the report is something the Instant Feedback System should be handling they will not likely waste their time investigating a ticket report. Your reports help identify toxic behavior to the system, and circumventing it undermines that. Thank you for the advice on where to lodge tickets. Having clearly as I can covered the reasons why this person will not be identified by the system, which has no method for detecting trolling, only chat and intentional feeding detection, I'm not undermining a system. it doesn't exist. Riot haven't even attempted to build a system for detecting trolls.. IDK dont you see that as a big problem? and one they should be working on....?
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Revelstoke

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