Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 28
Any thoughts on Sylas after his buffs?
: Yep. Classic ghostcrawler. Being melee has less skill expression and therefore melees should always be weaker than ranged champions amirite.
Thats why we need to revert Azir to his release state, hes difficult therefore it's ok /s This post made by both a ranged hater and an M7 Azir.
: ***
The point: v Your head: o
: > [{quoted}](name=Spookerton,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yclmRFu8,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-11T11:08:51.290+0000) > > Thank CHRIST someone said it. > > God it's so unfair that I, a caitlyn, can't 1v1 a jax at melee range after i use my gapcloser aggressively and fail to kite him whilst he wails on me. I should be able to permanently kite him while he struggles to even be relevant even after tailoring his build to specifically take me down, because anything that interferes with ADC being an unkillable omnipotent role is absolutely broken and needs to be removed. It is ludicrusly unfair that I, a marksman, the most powerful and important class in the game, can actually lose in a 1v1 situation to a champion who is specifically tailoring their playstyle or champion selection to kill me /s The double standard has driven me crazy for years. It does feel as well that after ghostcrawler joined the balance team that ranged champions have been treated and balanced as higher skill champions (in fact I remember him saying something to this effect), when the reality is having extra range is just outright more power/more damage. Melees have to have the most ridiculous features for them to even come close to as powerful, see pre-nerf irelia, jax, pre-nerf fiora, yasuo. They literally decided for the assassin rework that assassins dealt too much damage (all of them aside for leblanc were conveniently melee, and didn’t do nearly as ridiculous damage as one infinity edge crit at the time) so they crippled the class that dared counter carries and then rebalanced them around using gimmicks, which is how assassins are played to this day. It’s stat checking if a melee mashes buttons in a specific timed order and wins (see old akali), but kai’sa/any other ranged carry right clicking you down is skilled gameplay. I’m saying this as someone who actually plays both ranged and melee champions; the bias is awful.
Ghostcrawler worked on WoW. He thought the melee classes were all broken and overpowered for the game's pvp. He introduced kiting mechanics, and saw kiting as the most skilled thing a player can do. There's your dirt on Ghosty.
: Hard to take you seriously when you don’t even realize Tristana ult _is AOE_. “Active: Tristana fires a massive cannonball at the target enemy, dealing magic damage and knocking back the target and all enemies around them.” While knocking back 600/800/1000 units as opposed to hecarim’s 250-450. While Hecarim has a maximum 330 base damage (minimum 165) at max rank as opposed to Tristana’s 500. Hecarim runs predator and literally optimizes his itemization around his E. More often than not, until he gets to ridiculous movespeeds, the reason carries are getting instagibbed is because the carries were out of position or playing badly. If he’s building to one shot you, the unfortunate thing is he rapidly switches over to getting one shot by the sheer bs damage that carries get. But that’s ok. Because unavoidable right click damage/huge aoe spells that are practically unavoidable are ok from range, but if a melee does the same thing that’s terrible and needs nerfing.
>Because unavoidable right click damage/huge aoe spells that are practically unavoidable are ok from range, but if a melee does the same thing that’s terrible and needs nerfing. Thank CHRIST someone said it. God it's so unfair that I, a caitlyn, can't 1v1 a jax at melee range after i use my gapcloser aggressively and fail to kite him whilst he wails on me. I should be able to permanently kite him while he struggles to even be relevant even after tailoring his build to specifically take me down, because anything that interferes with ADC being an unkillable omnipotent role is absolutely broken and needs to be removed. It is ludicrusly unfair that I, a marksman, the most powerful and important class in the game, can actually lose in a 1v1 situation to a champion who is specifically tailoring their playstyle or champion selection to kill me /s
Weensw (NA)
: Out of every single champion, who can give the best leash?
{{champion:266}} Q has three 0.25 second knockups, whoms duration is doubled to 0.5 vs. monsters. Passive deals 5% of it's health, and he will proc it twice during a leash It's a guaranteed 0 hp loss for the guy he's leashin'
nelogis (EUW)
: What is this Warwick buff on the PBE?
All I can think of is that this buffs him when hes under the effects of Baron Nashor or Infernal. Got no idea. Guess we'll have to wait to see the context notes.
: What champion mechanics do you find to be annoying to deal with?
{{champion:7}} 's Distortion How am I reasonably supposed to catch and punish someone who has this spell, LET ALONE TWO OF THEM!
Dasdi96 (NA)
: The new mordekaiser will be 100% pick / ban in competitive and will cause this champion to be a mess
Chill. His ult can be QSS'd at any point during it, before and during. Pro players build QSS.
Terozu (NA)
: I compared his design to how the same gimmick is handled elsewhere. Here it's given a ton of tools. There it's given minimal tools. It's a valid point. Now please stop harrassing and insulting me while I'm trying to actually talk to other people? If you want to talk about the subject do so. Don't throw insults. And especially don't call bias when you're clearly also biased.
From what I've seen you're not having discussion. Admittedly I've been fairly rude, and for that I apologise. However you've repeatedly ignored my claims by not addressing information and then wildly changed subjects and situations that are incredibly disingenous. You're not having discussion, you're agreeing with yesmen and calling falsehoods when you can't address other's points. I made several lengthy responses of which you ignored, and picked apart areas which I myself admitted were incorrect. If you compare two different games, from two different companies, with two different design philosophies, then its incredibly unfair. It's like comparing Chocolate to Ice Cream, yeah they're both sweets, but they're not the same at a fundamental level. If you can compare League champs to smite gods, then why not dota heroes? How come TF's teleport isn't like Nature's Prophets? Theyre both global teleports, so why are they different? It's important to understand that game developers have different balancing philosophies and styles. Additionally, Morrigan seems like a very different type of character from a Durable Melee Mage, and, in your words, her ultimate steals an entire kit, which is very different from Sylas' ultimate just taking an ultimate. I haven't played smite, but there's massive differences between these two games that you're not accounting for. Smite is made by a different company, it isn't league, and thus balancing it by the character design philosophies of another game is just absurd, because that opens up a whole can of worms. Can you compare? Yes. Can you make judgements? Yes. But you cannot imply that one version is objectively better or more balanced than the other, because they exist in different sandboxes.
Terozu (NA)
: I didn't exaggerate his abilities. I compared them to Akalis and The Morrigan from Smite. If that sounds like exaggerating it when it's just a direct comparison, do you think he might just have more stuff?
You compared them with a character from another video game. Because every single competitive video game has the same balance design and framework for character design. gg.
Terozu (NA)
: Uhh they both have a free dash and a dash based on hitting a skill shot. His also shields him and he has a third dash that heals him. She has an execute dash and microstun dash. He can have up to 3 more (Ahri) dashes on top of that. Or 2(Akali) Or 1(any champ with a dash ult.)
It must be so easy to win when your opponent is one made from straw. His dashes are much smaller. His W is barely even a dash. Akali has one dash that always works, One that can be activated from that dash if she hits a target. Then a long dash that has a stun attatched, and a second dash that can execute. Additionally, only one of Sylas' dashes can be effectively used to go in a direction of his choosing, as W and E2 are dependent on the enemy's position. Akali can use two of her dashes (r) in any direction, and her E1 in any direction, while her E2 is dependent on enemy positioning. Let's also not forget Akali's 7 - 9 second true stealth with movement speed and her passive's movement speed. If you're seriously going to be including Ahri in this example when we are talking about base line movement mechanics, as opposed to a conditional maybe steal that depends on fucking champion select, then by that logic i'm allowed to put Ivern and Thresh on Akali's team and give her two more dashes. Don't try and pull shit out of your ass when it's so painfully unrelated. I play both Sylas and Akali fairly frequently. It's clear you play one of the two and have an extreme vendetta toward the other. They're both very different champions, and comparing the two, especially when you need to have fucking ahri in the game to make your argument even remotely sound, is incredibly disingenuous and it makes actually trying to discuss anything with you feel like shouting at a brick wall. That sounds harash, but you see things far too Black & White to ever have serious discussion. Fr tho. How can you ever use that Ahri example and genuinely think that your argument stands strong.
: > His e adds unique gameplay that once again doesnt exist in the game currently. w Because GP and Jhin don't exist.
{{champion:266}} is just a ripoff of riven, It's clear that two champions cant have a dash, a damaging spell with cc and also a steroid in their kit and be anywhere remotely different. What the hell riot. /s
Terozu (NA)
: He has 3 dashes without ult. She has 2. With ult he can have up to 6.
One dash. One gap closer that requires hitting a skillshot One short range targetted gap closer that barely moves him. Totally the same as a backflip, a dash to a target or smoke, a dash and a delayed second dash.
Terozu (NA)
: 70% lowered? Tf you smoking that 250 is 70% of 400? That's a direct 100 to 100 comparison. 38.5% lowered. Slightly was def the wrong word, but moderately would be better. Q 2 was a reverse to a buff from a couple patches ago. I said heal was a Nerf revert. It is still a net neutral on power shifting.
Corrected myself with regards the 70% lower. I was referring to the reduced minion damage, which is actually 30%. Its a 38.5% lower to the SIZE, but the damage is what i was referring too. I should of organized my comment better, though you should of also read it more carefully. I was referring to the size before i mentioned the waveclear DAMAGE nerf. If something is a reverse buff or a reverse nerf, that doesn't invalidate the point. It's still soemthing that is HAPPENING, just because its a revert of something, before, it doesn't make it any less impactful. Also the Q size nerf is the only revert. The damage is sitll getting gutted, and that doesn't make it any less true. It's far from net neutral, and your reply is incredibly lazy. You're looking at things too face value, you aren't making any effort to extrapolate beyond Black & White. Even if we count the number of objective nerfs and buffs, we come out with this: Passive: Buff, Nerf, Nerf, QoL (I've explained why before) Q: Nerf, Nerf, Nerf W: Buff E: Nerf, Buff That's still a more nerfs than buffs, even using your logic. And the nerfs are much more severe than just +4 damage, +5 - 30 heal and + 20 - 60 shielding. It's fundamental hard nerfs to the champion's safety, consistency and laning power.
: mordekaisers rework is the most unique champion ever created.
I too can boil things down to semantics and make them sound identical. Did you know that there are two champions with bonuses when they attack three times? I guess Riot really ran out of ideas after {{champion:67}}, they just copied her passive for {{champion:245}} 's passive! How unoriginal! Ekko is just Vayne, Zilean, Rengar, Sivir and Gnar. Please don't conviniently ignore the intricacies I leave out, I'm a sarcastic boards poster who thinks he understands champion design! It's almost like the context in which things exist defines them greatly. You can literally boil down any champion and say they're copies of each other. Yes, his abilities might be similar in terms of mechanics, but is there a champion who is a tanky AP juggernaut who uses an AOE pull, a slam which does bonus isolation damage at a long range, A shield which is based on damage dealt and taken, that can be used to gain health, and also the ability to turn a fight into a 4v4 whilst stealing stats? Yes, each of these things is not unique in a vacuum, because thats how video games work. Every champion literally has the same basic design: They help kill your enemies and destroy the nexus, but their abilities are designed to accomplish this in different ways, Mordekaiser's kit can seem to be similar on paper, but its the combination of those things that makes the kit interesting. "Doesn't just change the stats around", you're literally defeating yourself with this one too. "It's only got longer range, doesn't do max health damage, does physical damage, doesn't have an aftershock, doesn't slow and also has an isolation damage bonus! It's the same as poppy Q!"
: > [{quoted}](name=Spookerton,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3Z2Y3K0W,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-06-03T04:37:14.821+0000) > > Hilariously enough, Aatrox's winrate global has dropped below Riven once again. Because they finaly added counterplay, which they always forget on Rivens side. Btw, why would you even pick Aatrox over Riven? Aatrox is even harder to learn/master.
What're you talking about? Animation cancels are so hard! It's not like every champion with an auto attack reset does the same thing /s
Zeyphel (NA)
: ***
But he do a big heal move when he low and me no know how that ok??? Like why can melee man with melee damage not die like range mage? What no fair? Por que?
Terozu (NA)
: They buffed passive damage and partially lowered the range, slightly lowered it to non primary targets(which ALWAYS should've been a thing) and letting him store charges. Overall? That's a damage buff for a range nerf. Chain lash part 2 got a buff revert. The heal got a nerf revert. The shield is getting a major buff but requires him to now hit a skill shot(which again ALWAYS should've been a thing). (I saw ALWAYS in all caps because I said this 1 week into his pbe testing.) That's a... neutral, nerf, buff, neutral... Net neutral. Totally gutted.
Its a big nerf to Sylas. You're being very vague with regards to the actual changes and what their impact is. A buff doesnt always equal a nerf, it depends on severity and the impact that the change has on the champion, in which, Sylas is getting some very impactful nerfs compensated by unimpactful buffs. The lower passive AOE size is HUUUGE and cripples his laning harrass consistency, as good sylas players would constantly proc this to harrass laners. Not to mention how much waveclear hes losing due to passive, which hurts his ability to push and makes his laning much less scary for opponents like Darius or Renekton who can fight him early. >slightly lowered You mean 30% lowered. Damage buff is compensation mostly, its +4 at level 1 and +6 at level 18. Wow. Massive. Totally net neutral. The two charges is nothing. All it does it let you use E1 and immediately E2, good sylas players don't need two charges as they would space out E1 and E2. The Q's secondary damage AP ratio is getting lowered by 1/3rd and its base damage cut by 5 - 30, which is pretty extreme considering Sylas relies heavily on his Q for damage, as his W is mainly an execute, and he's often forced to save it for the heal. W heal is a revert buff. E moving of the shield is massive. This effectively means in lane, your shield lasts 0.5 seconds less (as thats the time of his E2's stun) and also hurts his dueling, since Sylas in lane often delays between E1 and E2, which means hes much less safe. The shield base strength buff tries to help with this, but this is very far from a net neutral change. You're deluding yourself if you think the changes to sylas are neutral, they cripple his safety and massively hurt his ability to lane into ranged champions especially. His W healing and E shield compensation aren't enough to make this a net neutral change, when mechanically, he's losing much of what makes him strong. ============================================================================= EDIT: Here's the actual Changelist thats on the PBE, so that we can have full clarity: Petricite Burst (Passive) - Damage changed from [(100% AD)+(5+2.5 per level)+(20% AP)] to [(100% AD)+(9+3 per level)+(20% AP)] - radius reduced from 400 to 250 - now does 30% reduced damage to minions other than the primary - Now has 2 charges Chain Lash (Q) - Q2 explosion radius reduced from 200 to 180 - Q2 Damage lowered from 45/70/95/120/145 to 40/60/80/100/120 - Q2 AP lowered from 60% to 40% Kingslayer (W) - Heal increased from 60/80/100/120/140 to 70/95/120/145/170 Abscond / Abduct (E) - Abscord no longer shields - Abduct now only shields on champion and monster hit. - Shield value increased from 60/90/120/150/180 to 80/120/160/200/240 EDIT 2: My mistake. I read the passive AOE vs. minions reduction incorrectly. Its minus 30%, instead of minus 70%. My point still stands.
: Keep in mind that Aatrox only has a very good winrate in Masters+. Because duhh hit your Qs ez win and healing, may sound easy in theory, but is very hard to pull of, especially in Toplane vs ranged Champions/anything with a Dash.
Hilariously enough, Aatrox's winrate global has dropped below Riven once again.
: there is an issue with that logic tho by making everything over powered you break the game and by nerfing everything across the board matches become dull/stretched out that is why they change what they do, when they do
Making everything overpowered also makes for a lot more work. If you have champions X, Y and Z, and Y is currently doing so much better than X and Z, then its easier for Y to be brought down, as it affects less champions and less moving parts. It also helps keep the game's power level at a reasonable level, otherwise design philosophies have to be warped to accomodate the new power level.
AR URF (NA)
: Nerfing individual champs vs their class?
If played right is a very difficult thing for aatrox, and you're also overexaggurating. Aatrox's damage w/o any AD is actually pretty minimal, as the base damage on his Q is a fairly low 10 - 90 (12.5 - 112.5 on swing 2, 15 - 135 on swing 3) (amp'd by 50% if hitting the sweet spot), but the scaling is massive, thus leading most people to build an early Caulfields before starting their Black Cleaver. Aatrox's Q might be "out damaging" if he is able to consistently hit all three sweet spots, but realistically, unless he picked into an extremely strong matchup or against a player who can't dodge his Q's, then his damage is going to be significantly weakened, as his early Q cooldown is 14 seconds. He has to hit three skillshots within skillshots at different ranges that all also lock him out of basic attacks during them, which is hugely punishing if he misses, thus the reward for hitting them is quite large. Think of it this way. Aatrox's Damage is entirely in an ability that is three parts, has a conditional damage boost, has a long cast time and a long cooldown, it's going to hit hard because thats where they want to allocate his damage, as his basic attacks w/o passive are quite weak due to his low base attack speed. Riot tends to not really focus on entire classes w/ regards to balance, the only time in recent memory that they likely hit an entire class was with the Conqueror nerfs and perhaps the Runic Echoes buffs, otherwise they're pretty good about letting outlier cases be put down, See the nerfs to Rageblade/Vayne as nerfs to specific champions w/o affecting the larger ADC roster in most ways. Riot generally mostly just nerfs bruisers because of community outcry, when in actuality they're a fairly mediocre class in the high elo meta, it's the same reason that much of the ADC changes got reverted. Side note. Q isn't an AOE crit, it's an AOE ability, but hitting the sweet spot causes the crit indicator to appear, as a way to show you did increased damage. Some abilities that also do this are Gragas' Q when charged, Karthus' Q vs. a single target and Sylas' W vs. a target below 40%. Just a bit of clarity, since critting is a different mechanic from doing boosted damage, tho you're correct about minion aggro. Aatrox hasn't been nerfed as he was buffed in 9.9, before MSI and before the pro season started. And as his stats for soloq have started to settle to being "sub-50 for sub-plat, 51% for plat+" in terms of WR (u.gg as my source), then they were likely waiting for pro play to see what should be tackled regarding his kit, as his soloq performance wasn't showing anything too extreme. I suspect we'll see nerfs very soon, as he's been shown to be quite the presence in the few matches that have been played.
: First I run conqueror on many adc and even mages.Its easily stacked up and i end up with 2k to 3k true damage and more each game.If you dont know how to utilize conqueror I cant blame you. Adding some extra to phase rush its fine since phase rush just gives minor movement speed and it ends fast. Second Wind is a joke.The healing is so little it makes no difference and since you get nuked it doesnt work at all.Even i top fights when you trade u might get 20 to 30 health back at most and during that time you lose even more,you wont wait till your healed.Also in late game its a wasted spot. Diamont skin is meant to be key rune also not a minor rune so its legitimate to be like this. Graps will only heal.Get an anti heal and its over. Also its only maokai.He can get nerfed many champions work extreme well with certain runes.Best example Darius or Irelia with conquerors.
"something extra" You're giving champions Olaf Ultimate for 3 seconds. Complete cc immunity is a very powerful, almost broken thing to add. Many champions are weak to CC for a reason, you can't reasonably expect this to go down. You're putting a lot of absolute power into a system which lacks absolute power for a reason: Champions arent designed to have their weaknesses negated, and you're effectively adding runes into the system that negate champion weaknesses, which is extremely unhealthy design. What if Riot designs a champion who's counterplay is that they are weak to cc? Well now they can't do that anymore, because your version of Phase Rush grants total CC immunity for THREE WHOLE SECONDS. The reason runes are fairly weak in regards to in-game impact is that Riot has to balance champions with weaknesses to prevent them from all becoming overpowered monsters. They aren't designing the game to be like DOTA 2, they want champions with strengths, weaknesses, counterplay and things you can do against them, your system adds in far too many ways to negate said counterplay. Phase Rush isn't ran because its weak, its not ran because it's effect is niche for certain champions. Ryze and Vladimir are perfect users of the rune and make it looks ridiculous. Phase Rush requires much investment, as you need to hit someone with three things in rapid succession, which is unreasonable for most melee champions who aren't Irelia (and she doesn't even want the MS boost), so it's mostly for ranged champions, but ranged champions would often prefer just to go with raw damage. CC immunity isn't the solve here, CC immunity means you just broke the game. There's a reason that not every dash in the game is Unstoppable, cc immunity is a very big deal, and it's one of the reasons that Olaf got Olaf'd a very long time ago. Second Wind is a joke, I agree. But your changes are nerfs on aggregate, due to the way that you've done numbers. Running Conqueror on those champions you mentioned is just bad. There's a reason that they aren't actually ran by players other than yourself (except for some draven players, which I don't get personally, but I guess it'd make sense for him the most with the double stack bug he has), you're suffering the placebo effect. Saying I don't know how to utilize it is a poor comeback for an argument that has 0 legitimate grounds. If you want damage for your ADC, you can grab PTA and do better damage than Conqueror. If you want healing on an ADC, fleet footwork is more consistent and provides more healing in laning phase and on aggregate. Conqueror is bad on ranged champions for a reason, the only one who actually uses it is Urgot and thats because he procs it 3 times a second to constantly refresh it. You're deluding yourself if you think its strong on ADCs. Even more so on mages. Really? Mages? You want to burst people as a mage, not do sustained damage. By the time you've burned your combo on most every mage, youre at what, 4 Conqueror Stacks? Guess it's time to wait for your next spe- oh wait you're ranged, thats right, the stacks have fallen off. Darius works mediocre with Conqueror at best. He stacks it at an "eh" rate. A better example would of been Riven, Imo. Seriously though. How can you say with a straight face that we should remove healing from conqueror, but it's ok to put a three second Olaf Ultimate onto phase rush? On a side note. Are you really arguing that because you, a random player on the boards, used conqueror on adcs and mages, that the hundreds of pros playing the game for a living are just ignoring it's power on a very large group of champions? It was one of the least seen runes at MSI, tied with Dark Harvest and Unsealed Spellbook.
: A needed rebalancing to Runes and some improvements for Individual roles
why yes, Conqueror is so superior that it was the least used Rune at MSI (for top/mid at least) Oh and it proceeded to get nerfed in 9.9, AFTER MSI. Jokes aside. Conqueror is not really that good right now, it's just the only rune that certain champions can actually benefit from to a reasonable degree. Seriously, you're only making it unusable. Its funny how you think Conqueror in it;'s current state is too powerful, but youre willing to add CC IMMUNITY to phase rush, its a bit ludicrus. Conqueror's Adaptive Force gain is a joke. It's true damage rarely comes into effect. It takes ages to stack unless youre a Riven or a Jax, and the healing is the only reasonable part of the rune. You're effectively showing your biases by saying its unfair that Tanks/Supports dont get amazing runes, whilst suggesting that gutting the only reasonable Bruiser Rune is fine. Your suggestions for Phase Rush are insanity, the gutting of Second Win ruins top lane's melee champions even harder than they already are, Diamond skin is absolutely ludicrus value for a rune thats "minor", Nullifying Orb is absolutely insane with regards to how much healing it would grant, and life flow is just random regen for free. Also, your idea for grasp is just insane for Maokai. I have no idea why you're ok with making all these runes ridiculously powerful, and then deleting the minor use of a mediocre rune, conqueror. I know this sounded harsh, but please put more thought into these kind of posts, especially when you directly call out X or Y class of champion, and then proclaim something even more ludicrus as a solution.
: why is it as long as its the bot lane adc getting funneled by a support its ok and considered normal/meta it happens any where else and people lose their shit ?
Dontcha know? Anything that threatens the monopoly of "ADC is the only role that matters" is bad game design. /s
: Thought Funneling was fixed and over with Riot?
Ok. Figure out a solution to the gold/xp system that doesn't impact Laners or Junglers negatively in some way or another, because of how difficult it is to prevent these things. Riot's done a bang up job with Monster Hunter. You're just bad and can't play around a weak strategy.
: Aatrox new ult and passive overpowered
>gains attack speed with his ult o m e g a l u l
Chewedon (OCE)
: 1) It's not a hyperbole, that's your opinion. I'll explain why: Each time you walk out of shroud/through the middle, or you attack, you become targetable for a second. Q - auto, one second. E, one second, E back auto attack, one second, R another second. That's 4 seconds. Subtract from the 7-9 and you get 3-5 seconds of "untargetable". Not a hyperbole. I know Akali's shroud is only revealed by turret. Oracle Lens sweeper reveals a red outline in the shroud, yes you can't click on it but you can still cast your AOE spells and still damage Akali in her shroud. "Untargetability" doesn't mean you can't get targetted, it just means you can't be clicked on. A smart player as I said use Oracle Lens to sweep you out and burst you down with their AOE spells. Jayce lightning shield, Renekton cleaver weave, Vladimir E, Annie can just cast her bear ultimate, stun and the bear follows Akali around (yes it happened to me even when I was invisible in the shroud). I'm not asking for invincibility in the shroud, I'm only asking Riot to make her shroud cover up the middle area so Akali can walk through the middle like how her old self could. It wouldn't be any more oppressive than what she originally had. > 2) The only change I can honestly, in good faith, say wouldn't put her over the edge is the E change, since its mostly a "cool" thing Yes, E change for the coolness. Part of Riot's concern is earning money and what looks good sells. This E change also give her a not over the top, slightly more safer escape tool that Riot was looking for when they originally gave her Twilight Shroud invisibility even against towers before nerfing it. Since this E change won't make her any more OP, but looks a lot cooler, I say why not? > 3) Hyperbole has no place in discussions like these. It just looks silly and makes you look salty, or like you got beat by a Sylas. So much for > Lets try and keep this friendly. Seems like your post is full of insults. Silly, salty, uninformed, short sighted, beat by a Sylas, the kind of condescending language display by someone with a superiority complex. We were talking about healing here. Hyperbole? Click to 0:50 on Riot's Sylas spotlight (watch from 0:50 to 0:55): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U4WdutoYbI Now compare to this at 1:14 on Akali's spotlight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-s2YVbRP8I You're telling me Sylas's massive chunk of healing is a hyperbole? Did rework Akali heal that much in an instant? That kind of healing is comparable/equivalent to a Soraka ult healing. Not a hyperbole now is it? Watching the Akali spotlight video, she has to wait until her bar reaches max charge before she can get a heal that's one quarter or half as much as Syals's instant heal. In a normal scenario, Akali would already have used up her energy casting other spells. In other words, the only time she gets heal would be wait in shroud (hopefully not getting sweeped out and bursted) until her energy is near full before casting her short range Q (hopefully landing it). If they remove Akali's healing which you outright claimed it to be "incredibly obnoxious and ridiculously unfair" (when it healed a lot less), why didn't they remove Sylas's OP healing which is twice as "obnoxious and ridiculously unfair"? You don't find that contradicting? > Sylas also doesnt have 4-5 second true stealth, relies on a skillshot to hit for his gapcloser, has a delay on his Q's damag and doesn't have any of the movement speed boosts of Akali. And Akali doesn't rely on landing her short ranged skill shots to get a gap closer? I recall Sylas has a dash which isn't a skill shot to close gaps? Let's not forget Sylas can steal ults which could grant him even more power. Steal Akali ult, gets her mobility, 0.5 second stun and same ability to execute. Steal Annie ult, that's one dead Akali. Steal Nautilus ult, locked in knock up. > 4) Assassins aren't just "oneshotters", if that were the case, then Jayce and Illaoi are assassins. Assassins are defined more so by their target access than their burst damage. Assassins are one shotters, that's their whole archetype and responsibility. Hyper mobility, stealth and most importantly, their insane burst damage. Get to the back line with their stealth and hyper mobility then burst down the squishies in a blink of an eye, not drag it out 3 or 4 seconds. Jayce and Illaoi don't have hyper mobility or stealth, they don't classify as assasins. Hell Irelia is more hyper mobility than Akali at this rate and Irelia is a fighter. In Akali's case, she doesn't do enough burst in a blink of an eye, her damage is more spread out over a few seconds like a fighter. You've even admitted yourself: > Akali is a **sustained fighter** more than a true oneshot assassin, sylas is a melee mage. If you define assassins based on their ability to access back line, then Rek'sai can just ult the back line or use his tunnel to get to the squishies. Renekton can flash dive the back line and burst down squishies in one combo and get out. Jarvan can dragon spear his way to the back. Going by that logic, my point still stands. Akali is less of an assassin than a Renekton. Not enough burst damage. > I should clarify that shes popular in PROFESSIONAL PLAY, rather than Diamond or Challenger. Even though players in those ranks are extremely good, don't get me wrong, the environment is still uncoordinated, and people aren't on voice comms and sometimes aren't giving it their all for whatever reason. So she's playable for world champions but the overwhelming majority has to suffer? If that's the case, my changes would at best bring her back up to her old glory for the 99% of the players to have a decent game with her while the world champions, if they find her hard to deal with, they simply just ban her like they already did at MSI. Problem solved. Seems like a sound and reasonable request. We should be catering to the majority, not the minority right?
1) Should clarify. I was saying I MYSELF was hyperbolic. I agree with you, she does have to duck and weave. I was hyperbolic MYSELF by saying it was invincibility, thats totally on me. However shroud already limits information, and allowing it to limit even more is dangerous 3) That might of come off a lil ruder than I thought. Apologies if it did, I honestly didn't mean to be offensive by saying that, i was just trying to highlight how someone could interpret it. Showing champion spotlight footage is fair, but keep in mind that Sylas' heal has since been nerfed significantly. additionally, Akali's heal was attatched to an ability that did dual scaling damage, had a conditional slow, proced her movement speed and energy restoring passive and was on a champion with true stealth for 9-10 seconds, two unconditional dashes, a modular dash ability w/ two parts. Sylas' W is a melee range damage nuke that has a conditional damage increase vs low hp targets and a conditional heal increase when he's low. Its not fair to compare these two champions, as their kits have differences that make them very fundamentally opposed. Akali's healing was removed because it made her matchups far too skewed, as she could outsustain other assassins and could ignore poke from mages, as the heal was attatched to a semi-spammable ranged ability on a champion with multiple escapes and energy as opposed to a champion who has an engage that they rely on to get in, and a long cooldown execute/heal with conditional increase at melee range. To put it simply, the more apt comparison for the healing on Akali Q would be something like Ahri's Q, where it requires a certain amount of buildup and gives a safe heal, whilst Sylas' requires him to go in and save his most potent and reliable damage source. Again, I'm not saying Sylas' healing isn't OP, just that its different when a melee mage w/ unreliable engage and an ability that has to be saved to perform one of two roles is healing a lot versus a flexible assassin with several reliable engages, disengages and other mechanics. Some things worth noting about that clip too. This is during the ability demo, which Riot usually has champions at funky levels and with unspecified items. For all we know, Sylas could of had several items and Akali none, or vice versa. Additionally, Sylas can only heal versus enemy champions on a single target ability, whilst Akali's was a semi spammable ranged AOE heal that worked versus minions, monsters, champions, everything, meaning that she could Q into a wave and heal much more than that clip shows. Akali's healing wasn't meant to be "in combat" healing like say Sylas, but more in the vein of the healing of someone like Talon's Q or even Kha'zix's W, its healing to help them deal with poke and damage from laners, that they can use to sustain up, while Sylas' heal is designed to be used in a brawl. What makes this healing unfair is that it was attatched to a champion with several ways to immediately jump onto you and chase you down, with safety mechanics and abilities to evade, which already would of made her strong in a duel, but also meant poking her often would be pointless. "sylas doesnt have true stealth"): Sylas' second E is his main engage. The first E is for a reposition, as the dash is shorter than Aatrox's bunny hop. The ability is on a very long cooldown and if he misses the E, he will often have to give up the chase or trade, since he relies heavily on that engage. The point youre making regarding his ult, seems again, more like a Sylas rant than an Akali discussion. Akali isn't Sylas, nor should she be Sylas, she should be Akali. Not saying this to be rude, but its important to stay on topic. 4) I said, and I quote "Assasins **arent just** oneshotters", this was to imply that an Assassin is a champion who has access to the backline and can oneshot, not that they are exclusively defined by that target access. An assassin is a combination of burst damage and target access. Saying Renekton is an assassin because he can flash E means that we now have to factor flash into everyone's champion design to whether they're an "assassin", is Syndra now an assassin because she can flash Q+E+R? No, its silly. Renekton still has to walk up, dash through someone, dash again onto the carry without getting peeled, and they kill the carry, he can't get out from there either unless the carry was horribly mispositioned. I also made ap oint regarding Akali's burst damage. I should clarify again, since i seemingly failed to define again, Akali is still a burst champion, but her burst takes a little longer to occur. Think of it this way, the delay between your R1 and R2 is your combo window, 2.5 seconds. Thats a lot longer than Zed's instant burst, but its still a fairly short time, and master Akalis can get off several passive procs and Qs during this time to kill a squishy target faster than they can react. Shes still an assassin, but shes a little slower than a Zed or a Talon, in exchange for her high safety and utility. >So she's playable for world champions but the overwhelming majority has to suffer? This is a really unfortunate case, but yes. Currently akali is not just 'playable' for these world champions, but overpowered. She was either picked or banned in every single MSI game played this year and she shows no signs of slowing down. Buffing her right now, in her current state, would make this problem even worse, so likely whats going to happen is she's going to eat a nerf to take her out of pro play, then shes going to be handed off to the mini-update guys like Meddler and Repertoire (the guys who did the 9.9 Aatrox changes, the mini urgot changes and the upcoming Zac changes), to be put into a spot where she isn't incredibly powerful for competitive play, and more usable for us. She isn't overpowered because of her combos, or damage, or anything like that in pro play. Shes overpowered because of how Shroud allows you to deny information, stall time for your team, and do really nasty things that the enemy can't react too. This is why she got gutted, as shes too strong for an environment where all 10 players are at the top of their game, but shes too weak for a soloq environment. I would assume that shes going to be recieveing heavy tweaks, like Aatrox did, to help her out in this regard, but for now we have to wait and see before we do any major buffs, because we don't want to cause another Azir or Ryze situation. Apologies for being rude the first time, if it seemed like it. Not intended to be rude. Thanks for the discussioN!
Chewedon (OCE)
: I disagree. 1) She only gets 7-9 seconds of untargetability if she stands in the shroud doing nothing. Smart players will get sweeper trinket and scan her out, then cast their aoe spells at her. I had a Jayce did that to me. An Akali standing in shroud doing nothing is wasting her shroud. She would be attacking half the time, so only about 4-5 seconds to be more accurate. 2) Yet a Katarina is able to put a blade behind you and instantly appear there with her shunpo, how's that for reaction time? A Zed can pretend to walk away, lure you closer to his shadow, then swap places with his shadow and burst you down. How's that for reaction time? 3) Yet champions like Sylas heals more than Akali, deals more damage using his auto attacks passive than Akali and dishes out burst damage more faster than Akali. From almost dead, one heal with his chain, he becomes almost full health. 4) At the current state she is in, she is more of a fighter than an assassin. Even Renekton is more of an assassin than Akali at the moment. Shoots out Q, walks back to get empowered Karma, walk forward to auto attack enemy, rinse and repeat. Take too long. I'm inclined to believe Zed's shuriken will chunk someone in one third of the time. A Renekton dash in, weaves his cleaver twice, you're down to 25% health. You said so yourself "Shes currently extremely powerful in high MMR and pro play, but pretty much trash for everyone else." I read majority of the players are low rank. Riot doesn't cater to the majority, they cater to the top 1% right? From what I can see, these changes would at best bring her back to the old Akali level not push her over the edge.
> [{quoted}](name=Chewedon,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qRQY8Qa7,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-05-23T12:10:36.807+0000) > > I disagree. Awesome! I love discussion. Lets try and keep this friendly. I really enjoy these types of talks ^^ > 1) She only gets 7-9 seconds of untargetability if she stands in the shroud doing nothing. This is hyperbole for the most part. Its mostly apparent into Melee top laners, that this is true. Akali is way worse mid than she is top, honestly, because Long Range Mages and other assasins absolute cream her, top lane has a lot less ranged EXTREME poke (e.g Xerath/Azir) and a lot more fighters for her to prey on, which are some of her best matchups. > Smart players will get sweeper trinket and scan her out, then cast their aoe spells at her. I had a Jayce did that to me. quick note here. I know you said you hadn't played in some time or something. Here's a quick note. Akali is only truly revealed by turret sight while in shroud. Items like Sweeper Trinket grank obscured vision, which is still unclickable unless youre taking an action. > An Akali standing in shroud doing nothing is wasting her shroud. She would be attacking half the time, so only about 4-5 seconds to be more accurate. Thats a fair assesment. But realize that thats a lot of breathing room. Most champions don't get to be that safe for 4-5 whilst they do their damage > 2) Yet a Katarina is able to put a blade behind you and instantly appear there with her shunpo, how's that for reaction time? Katarina isn't akali. Katarina doesn't have a 7-9 (or 4-5) second true stealth and mobility that is ungated by targetting. Katarina is a different champion from Akali, don't act as if just because theyre the same class, that they can't have things they dont have. Blinks are a luxury, Dashes are the default. Katarina has no cc, while akali has a stun and slow. > A Zed can pretend to walk away, lure you closer to his shadow, then swap places with his shadow and burst you down. How's that for reaction time? Zed isn't invisible for 4-5 seconds. Zed has much less sustained damage, as his Shadow is where all his damage and mobility is. Zed relies on his W for both his escape and his damage, so he has to use it carefully. You're comparing apples to oranges. This type of mentality isn't good for discussion as, if we extrapolate this, then why doesn't every ranged champion have Kayle ult, after all, theyre meant to be ranged carries, and it helps them do their auto attacks safer. > 3) Yet champions like Sylas heals more than Akali, deals more damage using his auto attacks passive than Akali and dishes out burst damage more faster than Akali. Sylas also doesnt have 4-5 second true stealth, relies on a skillshot to hit for his gapcloser, has a delay on his Q's damag and doesn't have any of the movement speed boosts of Akali. Akali is a sustained fighter more than a true oneshot assassin, sylas is a melee mage. You're comparing apples to oranges. Akali is most comparable to a champion like Yasuo, Riven or even Irelia. They're skirmishers and slayers, more than assassins. While akali is more on the assassiny side, arguing that a champion who is currently incredibly overpowered for Pro Play and garbage for inexperienced players, should be given such incredible tools, is so shortsighted that it comes accross as uninformed. > From almost dead, one heal with his chain, he becomes almost full health. Hyperbole has no place in discussions like these. It just looks silly and makes you look salty, or like you got beat by a Sylas. > 4) At the current state she is in, she is more of a fighter than an assassin. Even Renekton is more of an assassin than Akali at the moment. You're really reaching. Assassins aren't just "oneshotters", if that were the case, then Jayce and Illaoi are assassins. Assassins are defined more so by their target access than their burst damage. Target Access is basically how easy it is for your champion to jump onto a carry, kill them, then get out. A champion like Akali or Zed is very much packed with target access, as they have many ways to blink or dash through a fight and get onto a carry before getting out. Illaoi has to manually walk up to someone, which isnt going to work most of the time, unless youre fighting a dc'd player. Akali is pretty much the best target access you can get. > Shoots out Q, walks back to get empowered Karma, walk forward to auto attack enemy, rinse and repeat. Take too long. I'm inclined to believe Zed's shuriken will chunk someone in one third of the time. Ok. Well then you're playing the wrong champion. Akali isn't meant to be like Zed, or how she used to be. Its sad for people who miss that style, but Riot has wanted her to shift more to playing around her shroud. You can do much more overall damage than a zed can, but it takes longer for you to do it, but you are rewarded heavily for playing that style with movespeed, dashes, stealth and durability. > You said so yourself "Shes currently extremely powerful in high MMR and pro play, but pretty much trash for everyone else." I read majority of the players are low rank. Riot doesn't cater to the majority, they cater to the top 1% right? From what I can see, these changes would at best bring her back to the old Akali level not push her over the edge. The only change I can honestly, in good faith, say wouldn't put her over the edge is the E change, since its mostly a "cool" thing, its mainly just that her E is already very powerful, and tacking more things onto it could make it too strong. The bigger W, the added burst, and the healing are all away for a reason. More W size would mean it would be even more of an oppressive skill than it currently is, and wouldn't do much for akali players who aren't already great at her, it'd be more power for those who are in a pro environment, and be nothing but "eh thats nifty i guess" for players who aren't in organized environments, since that added layer of movement is much less valuable in a chaotic soloq environment. Healing, as shown when she was first out and when she had it on her Q, proved already to be far too powerful when combined with other aspects of her kit. You can't just put things in because other champions have them, otherwise the entire game would have everyone with Tryndamere's ultimate. Akali has burst damage, but a lot of it comes from the experience. I don't think I did a good job really explaining how much time it takes to play Akali right now. Some of the shit you can watch pro and expert Akali players do, stuff which will take me or you 7 seconds to fully combo, they can do in 2 seconds. A lot of the mastery in Akali is learning how to make her combo happen in the blink of an eye. You want to get in as much damage in the 2.5 second period that you have between R dashes, and in the hands of the pros, thats enough to kill almost anyone. She has "burst", but if for example Zed has an "A" in burst, Akali is a "B" in burst, while having a "B" in sustained damage, while zed has a "C" in sustained damage. Tradeoffs are what make champions unique, and making every assassin do the same thing. Akali likely is going to need some heavy tweaks to her kit. I should clarify. She's not really popular among "high MMR" compared to low. She has popularity in both, because shes the Frontrunner for K/DA which took off way harder than Riot expected, She's an Assassin who are always the most popular class, and she's got a lot of skill expression and mobility which players love. I should clarify that shes popular in PROFESSIONAL PLAY, rather than Diamond or Challenger. Even though players in those ranks are extremely good, don't get me wrong, the environment is still uncoordinated, and people aren't on voice comms and sometimes aren't giving it their all for whatever reason. Professional players, those who are in Esports, are very very very good at abusing Akali's strengths, as Shroud is an incredibly powerful information denial tool, in a world where information denial is worth far more than damage and death. Its a similar situation to how Aatrox was, until his update in 9.9. He was incredibly bad for players in soloq, since he was underpowered and his kit required coordination, but in a coordinated pro environment, he was one of the strongest champions the game has seen. Generally I think we'd need to see a very large overhaul to akali before we can get changes. She needs things that make her strong removed, but new strenghts added. She needs to be easier for the average player, and she needs to rely less on how low your Ping is too perfectly combo. Hopefully this has been insightful!
: Akali is worse than RYZE at this point
Aatrox was in this state before his update in 9.9, actually significantly lower than Ryze before 9.9. She needs an Aatrox tier update (as in, the one he got 2 patches ago), to fix the awful issues she has with her pro vs norms winrate comparisons. I suspect this is a nerf to gut her out of competitive play for some time, while they hand her over to Repertoire or Meddler, because I don't think Riot could of predicted how extreme her MSI performance truly was. For some reference, she was 100% pickban in MSI, even after her compensation buffs (buff which were, mind you, for usability sake rather than raw power buffs after the removal of turret stealth and heal on Q) which is pretty astonishing considering that puts her above other meta picks like Jarvan, Rek'sai, Galio and even Ryze himself (all of which have since recieved nerfs from 9.8 onward, or are slated to recieve changes), despite recieving a huge nerf to the removal of her sustain and tower safety. This is usually pretty alarming, when you're balancing a game, as it shows that there's something pretty fucked with your core concept when even after having auxilary perks which augment a character immensely being completetly removed, your champion is still a top pick in pros hands, and terrible in the hands of inexperienced players. To take a look at the example of Aatrox, the revive on his ultimate, was so unbelievably strong, that even after the removal of his double dash, sustain from minions, increased cooldowns all over his kit and the gutting of it's cooldown, he was still an immensely prevalent threat. He was tweaked as this wasn't really an enjoyable part of his kit in the first place, and his power was shifted into an area which Aatrox players wanted to see, sustain and healing. I think generally Riot needs to address a few things with these tweaks: - The oppresively powerful laning of Top Akali, versus the absolutely hilarious incompetence of Mid Akali's laning, because of how movespeed/slows in her kit affect her laning opponents based on their range differential - The dual scalings allowing her to buy into items that artificially improve her survivability, utility and consistency in ways other AP champions could only dream of (Gunblade, GA, Merc Scimitar, Maw, or even the Bruiser Akali items) making her versatile even on top of being a flex between two lanes. - The mechanics which, while really cool and fun, make learning her playstyle incredibly difficult for low-mid elo, like the E Smoke interactions, her W's elongation and pattern in corridors vs. open spaces, etc. - The stalling / time her W buys for teams, being incredibly powerful in a coordinated environment Of course, not all of these have to or should be addressed, but they're all problem areas for the champion's design which really makes her shine in pro and trash for everyone else. Then they'd want to look into bolstering the aspects that Akali players miss / want in the champion. From my personal perspective, I think Akali's mid lane needs to either be destroyed or some extremely drastic changes need to be made to her Passive and Q for her not to be opressive in top lane. Top and Mid are pretty different, with regards to champion pool, and Akali's kit is so much more insane in the often less bursty, sustain heavy, and often times Mid-Ranged-Fighter / Short Range Mage infested top lane, where her kit's slows and movespeed boosts become so absolutely opressive into certain matchups that it becomes ridiculous. I think it's really difficult for Akali, if her current gameplay style is to stay, to be truly balanced between both lanes, just beause of how her tools in her kit trivialize melee attacks like Darius or even tanks like Sion. Thats just my 2 cents. From a pretty scrubby akali player. i picked her up more recently, and shes a lot of fun, but i really hope she gets some changes soon. On a side note. Saying "the remaining playerbase" is pretty misleading. She's still an incredibly popular champion, despite the nerfs, because her appeal is very broad from a character and kit design perspective.
Etherean (NA)
: This is how funny riot is with balance in this game
Aatrox's winrate in sub-platinum, accross all regions except korea, is less than 50. https://u.gg/lol/champions/aatrox/build Aatrox has a much much much more counterable kit than yi. His damage is all skillshots, skillshots within skillshots mind you, he just got reworked so his ban/pick rate are artificially greater. Yi isn't a very good champion for diamond+ because hes a soloqueue stomper, while aatrox has more team utility, so ofc hes going to be picked more in a serious environemnt. Winrate going up in low elo, when the changes to yi were intended to, by riot's admission, nerf him at low elo and buff him at high elo, is alarming, so theyre likely pulling back on some power because hes become another low elo nightmare again. Contrast this with Aatrox, who has been one of **the worst soloq champions in the entire game for months**, and has just recieved a MAJOR kit update in addition to a winrate jump from "god awful" to "acceptable" in any elo below platinum. His WR above platinum is higher than average, but his lower elo winrates are still pretty mediocre. Source: https://u.gg/lol/champions/aatrox/build TL;DR: Yi was CHANGED to address his power at low elo, and his weakness at high elo. The changes did the reverse, so riot is backpedalling. Aatrox will likely be tweaked soon, but he's been in such a terrible state until 9.9, that they're probably cutting hi ma little slack, where as Yi has always been soloq viable for years.
: Hi Meddler, I was wondering if you can make the clone to walk around in a short area. I have noticed that there is a simple counter to the ability. All one needs to do here is to walk away from the clone, thus negating the additional clone damage. On the PBE, I realized that it was really frustrating that people can just walk away. Also, I would like to say that his PBE kit does feel good, while at the same time weak when laning up against {{champion:24}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} . It feels like not much as changed for his laning phase that Wu must hug turret until he reaches mid-game powerspike. Any thoughts about that?
To be fair, those are lane bullies who thrive on fighting low mobility fighters.
: Hi Meddler. Just want to congrats u on awesome work on Aatrox,although he should have just a lil bit lowered numbers. But in terms of rework,u nailed it. Are u looking to push Wukong towards assasins,or bruisers? Assassin wukong will be nightmare,he will either be to strong and frustrating to play against,or to weak.So please take care about this one. Any upcoming Mordekaiser changes and Warwick? They're kinda in buggy state. I also want to talk about Nasus.For D1-D2 players and higher he is unplayable,yet in lower elo he is OP. Can we shift a little power from him in his late game(even Late Game is not his strenght in high elo due of kitting+insane damage currently,but this is not case in lower elos)and give him little more strenght towards laning phase? Like nerfing his E damage,especially armor pen %.And giving him a little bit more health regen or just simply health and base stats(Dont give him +3ad,give him +3armor+3magic resist,and a lil bit better scaling in terms of deffensive. This way Nasus can "survive" lane and not being called troll pick in D2+ games,and on other side in lower elos where game lasts longer he wont be insane due of possibility to just ignore 40% of armor with his E and be insanely strong. Hope you can look a lil bit around it.Thanks.
Actually, The aatrox changes were handled by Riot Repertoire, to my knowledge, unless he was just tweeting the changes out and not doing them himself.
: {{champion:24}} {{champion:39}} = burst + sustain done wrong {{champion:266}} = burst + sustain done right. His is much more conditional and typically involves flashing for Q3.
100% agreed. Aatrox's damage combo is really well designed and extremely well done. He gains sustain damage as he builds items and generates CDR from his items, but he begins as pure burst, thus giving a window of time for opponents to outplay him early.
: "Mages are too weak! Bruisers need nerfs! Toplane isn't shit!" Right, kinda wish people that look at the lane from the outside would shut their mouths for once. The lane honestly feels the worst its been since tank wet noodle fights. The TP nerf killed any influence top could have on the map since you would have to hard commit on a tp with your uncoordinated team. The moment you are first to 3rd pick for top (on any side) is the moment you fucked up. And even if you manage to get last pick, pray to the lord the enemy doesn't pick something that its sole counter was banned by them. Without jg help, toplane pretty much functions like the island it once was.
Its because Top Lane is really underplayed at higher elos, that it becomes really awkward to discuss. People just compare it to how they see Mid Lane, and assume "hey its a solo lane, it's the same thing"
Madsin25 (NA)
: Are you talking about aatrox? If so I regret to inform you he sits at a 52% WR in plat and it only goes up from there with a 54% WR in master. That's with a 35% Ban rate in master aswell.
Source for my stats: https://u.gg/lol/champions/aatrox/build I made a mistake. Should of said BELOW plat, not plat & below. My bad!
ZaFishbone (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Spookerton,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=91Kolcct,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-20T08:20:38.698+0000) > > Just gonna slide on in some data facts real quick. > Op.GG looks at Korea Platinum+, no other regions and no other divisions. > Op.GG's winrates are artificially inflated due to the total resetting of data when a new patch arrives, thus some hilarious winrates can be observed (See Wukong on the first day of 9.7, with his 64% winrate). > Op.GG's winrates are viewable with even only a tiny amount of games being played on the champion > Op.GG's winrates do not distinguish between a Pro, a Onetrick, a First Timer or an Experienced Ezreal. Winrate values are registered the same. > > Not to say Ezreal isn't doing amazing rn of course. > > Tl;dr: Use U.gg and dig a lil deeper into winrates by region/ranks, it'll help your understanding of the game grow c: > https://u.gg/ > > > And finally, just for shits & giggles, heres some fun winrates from U.gg: > > Aatrox's KR Dia+ Winrate is 52%, while his winrate in Japan Dia+ is 47% (top lane) > Master Yi's KR Dia+ Winrate is 48%, while his EUW Dia+ winrate is a jaw dropping 40% (jungle) > Azir's NA Dia+ Winrate is 44%, while his Japan Dia+ Winrate is 66%. However, he has only been picked 50 times in Japan Dia+ in 9.10, while he has been picked 480 times in NA. (Mid) And let's not forget that Korea just showed us exactly how much they 'understand' the meta right now.
: > [{quoted}](name=Spookerton,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qRQY8Qa7,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-20T11:34:56.434+0000) > > That, I can totally agree with. 100% agreed she needs the Aatrox treatment. Yep. They stilled kept his revive but made him real fucking fun to play with it seems.
Aatrox main, myself. Have been since his release way back in S3. This is my favorite version there has ever been of Aatrox. I don't think he's ever been more fun.
: > [{quoted}](name=Spookerton,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Bi4ulcKE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-20T04:14:19.205+0000) > > Imagine not being able to infinitely kite a melee champion and leave them absolutely helpless and pointless as an out of position squishy long ranged carry. > > You realize that Shojin's CDR reset only applies if he's auto attacking you. If youre kiting him, he wont be getting any value out of shojin, or leap strikes. At best he can get 1 or 2 autos off on you before you can E away, then you'll have 5 - 9 seconds of freedom to use your IBG slow or Trinity movespeed in addition to your team peeling for you. ya except when he flash leaps on you you an does 75-80% of your hp in single combo, leaving you with flash E away only for him to have leapstrike back up and catch up to you since he moves faster even when slowed. dont kid yourself jax is fking broken. and not just for ranged he is broken for nearly every champion that he faces.
So you mean to tell me that he has to use flash to even touch you. If you genuinely think its acceptable for you to never be touched by a melee champion unless they have flash, you are delusional. Jax should never be catching you as Ezreal. You are positioning terribly.
: > [{quoted}](name=Spookerton,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2uztyQAU,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-20T04:11:05.811+0000) > > {{champion:114}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:16}} > > Throw these into the heal reduction category! c: Hecarim is sorta spooky but never have I really been concerned about his healing really.... Usually dies pretty quick if you survive his initial burst.
Should clarify. You'll need anti heal IN TEAM FIGHTS, for him. Hecarim's W is based off the damage that **enemies recieve**, not just the damage he deals. So if he has a 12/1 Kai'sa dealing 1200 dps to the tank inside his W, he'll be healing a tonne.
Kai Guy (NA)
: I did not think you meant it as anything other then sarcastically or jokingly. I do take things to far at times. I am hella stubborn and abrasive. But i do aim to be self correcting and change my views when needed, a slightly redeeming quality i hope. I have a lot of spare time so i don't mind burning it every now and then on boards. Not everybody has the same luxury. Its a shame but boards just fail to meet potential they could have. Community seems to have low interest in becoming a better community. which is a shame cuz i have been part of a bunch of game communities over the years and it can be really pleasant to have folks to talk to and bounce things off. Especially when most your friends, family, and coworkers don't nerd out. Start talking about AP ratios or the impact 0.5 seconds duration nerf to CC makes and its like your speaking a different language. Well spooker you have a good night mate. Take care.
Thanks a tonne. Nerding out like that is part of why the boards is so enjoyable. It's just a shame that most people use it to bolster uninformed kneejerk responses rather than have actual discussion. The moment you even do start having discussion, you're then called an "LCS wannabe" too. Have a good night yourself!
: > [{quoted}](name=Spookerton,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qRQY8Qa7,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-20T10:41:12.822+0000) > > If any of these changes were to go through, then You'd need to absolute destroy her damage numbers. I mean't that she needs a mini-rework to overhaul her cancerous kit, like Aatrox. His changes is shit, no doubt. Riot needs to change Akali to what the Akali community wants and also make her more soloQ oriented than being god like at Pro Play.
That, I can totally agree with. 100% agreed she needs the Aatrox treatment.
Lacuni (NA)
: I'm insecure? I was talking about a match I lost in, HOWEVER, I was also talking just, in general, any match that involves Aatrox my friend. Hence why there is no reference to a match of any sort. And yes I'm aware of hyperbolic meaning, but it was "And maybe dodging the sweet spot of his Q helps..? Its like saying HURR DURR GP BROKEN I mean I step into every barrel and also eat his crit late BUT HE IS SO BROKEN!" This was an assumption that I was losing to the Aatrox, dodging the sweet spots of his Q, but that would only be possible if I was laning against him? Meaning this person misinterpreted and rushed his post You're an actual moron
No..? You don't need to be laning against Aatrox to lose to Aatrox. Especially if he's jungling, you can still get hit by an ability. You in no way provided any reason for either of us to believe you were dodging his Q. And you don't need to lane against him to dodge his Q. If hes ganking, its probably MORE important that you dodge his Q, since hes going in for the kill. Even during teamfights, you still need to dodge it. Your post was uninformed (which you admitted yourself, by saying you didn't understand what was making him strong), rushed, and lazy after you lost to an Aatrox and said to yourself that he must be overpowered. He was just giving a sarcasitc, humorous response to your garbage whiney rant thread. I dunno why you expected a serious, well thought out, incredibly well informed reply to a thread titled "Aatrox needs nerfs seriously" and where you spell "ridiculous" so incredibly wrong that it looks childish. Hes simply giving you reasons why, your percieved idea of why Aatrox is incredibly overpowered, isn't correct. His damage is avoidable and dodgable, its slow, its highly telegraphed, its delayed. He can't heal if he misses and hes reliant on snowballing. You're not even reading my or his posts at this point. You're the bigger moron.
: How to fix Akali: Mini-rework. Akali is fixed.
If any of these changes were to go through, then You'd need to absolute destroy her damage numbers.
Kai Guy (NA)
: I might be abrasive but I don't go out of my way to lie about things to people on the boards. Please find a new excuse for your performance. Most players do not have much sympathy for some one who goes 2/12/2 on {{champion:92}} then blames the game or a class of champions. Also what I literally said was "playing mostly {{champion:35}} " It clearly there in the quote your providing. Also far as I remember most our conversations ended with you refusing to respond to me anymore because I constantly called out your inaccuracy's in your statements. Well i am curious here ..if you called me out did you possibly change your ways? 8 game {{champion:35}} streak which ya failed to break 50% in.... Guess not. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/player/NA/zarxus1234?content_type=discussion. 3 Years of you just complaining non stop about this game over any and everything that's not about you. Get over it, mature as a human and player please. Let me give you a step by step solution that will solve me ever showing up in your threads again. 1:Rather the blame rage or flame teammates/riot/enemy players. Express that you have a struggle vs Champions/classes as who ever you are currently playing. 2: Ask for help. 3: Don't word it like a raging pre-teen 4: Be respectful even if you disagree with some one else when the provide help as requested in step 2. 5: Aim to be accurate in statements. Do that and we never need to communicate again.
I absolutely wish that he would listen to you here, but I'm sad to say its the Boards. You've done a great job of explaining how he can be more legitimate and knowledgeable, but alas, He doesn't seem to care.
: > [{quoted}](name=Spookerton,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TUaJsEEB,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-20T09:27:41.835+0000) > > He just said that you complain a lot, which puts into perspective what your mentality is like. > Kinda says a lot when you play Shaco Jungle and complain that Bruisers are overpowered because this one time something happened in my solo q game therefore an entire class is overpowered. ok lets go. Bruisers only class in the game that doesnt have 1v1. Bruisers snowball the hardest. Bruisers dominate in 3 lanes. more than every other roles. Bruisers have the best k/d in my games by far. The winning bruiser has won every game in my match history except one. Top of challenger dominated by bruiser mains. So at what point am i suppose to believe that bruisers are balanced. I state facts and evidence to support my claim. Yet not one person can refute them. What i want is a balance game.
1. ??? 2. ADCs snowball harder. 3. Nice meme? Bruisers are only good in top lane soloq (bruisers never get picked top in pro play) and sometimes in jg, but right now Mage Junglers (elise/evelyn) are dominating more than Jarvan/Rek'sai, in terms of pick rate at high elo. 4. Wow what a very conclusive and very informative statement 5. Again. Thats a you problem 6. Except its dominated by ADC mains? TF Blade is the only top laner at the top of challenger, the majority is filled with ADCs. Your personal feelings and person opinions and personal experiences don't mean a whole lot when you phrase them so awfully and sound more like youre whining about it rather than actually trying to discuss game balance. You ttled this thread 'everytime i play this game the bs that are bruisers'. You're acting as if youre trying to discuss how to balance and fix the issue, without even giving an issue or evidence to support your claims of an issue. If anything, the evidence leads to the contrary, but you're so hellbent on thinking things fit into your narrow cardboard box world view that you'll ignore everything I say. REally its pointless to argue with you, Kai Guy has every god damn right to call you a whiner, you have done nothing but cry without evidence other than "This one time a bruiser killed me", which (suprise suprise!) isn't exactly compelling evidence.
Kai Guy (NA)
: I get called a Troll frequently when people have no counterarguments. Then usually flagged to moderators for harassment/spam. Some times, I am out of line so fair enough. Op is not really a Troll imo. Just selfishly assumes everything about the game should be centered around how they play. I don't have much sympathy for this attitude. its a Team game. You should consider comps. Plus there are consequences to having a low champion pool your skilled in. Always take things with a grain of salt. Glance at the history and let me know if you think I have been unfair. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/player/NA/zarxus1234?content_type=discussion. For me... I don't feel this kind of behavior adds anything to the community. So I make a point to Quell it.
Oh no i totally agree. You're within every right, imo. I was just sarcastically referring to how he called you a troll, despite you just stating the obvious and filling me in.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TUaJsEEB,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-20T09:04:01.818+0000) > > Its zarxus. Been a long time but all this dude does is complain about anything he struggles vs. He still playing mostly {{champion:35}} and struggling to break 50% win rate? oh look its the troll who doesnt answer any of the questions i pose. Just says i play shaco. Go away troll. You have no clue.
He just said that you complain a lot, which puts into perspective what your mentality is like. Kinda says a lot when you play Shaco Jungle and complain that Bruisers are overpowered because this one time something happened in my solo q game therefore an entire class is overpowered.
Kai Guy (NA)
: Its zarxus. Been a long time but all this dude does is complain about anything he struggles vs. He still playing mostly {{champion:35}} and struggling to break 50% win rate?
Thanks for the heads up. Glad to see some context. "troll" btw.
Lacuni (NA)
: He claimed "HURR DURR I STEP INTO EVERY BARREL." Applying that I can't dodge an aatrox Q, when that's not the point, and I did not lane an aatrox. The match history is not on this account, this is an an alt You're dumb :)
So what I'm hearing here is. You're too insecure to show us the game you lost in, thus your point cannot be verified and we're supposed to believe a random alt account about that game, that is totally real and definetly legitimate. He didn't say you walk into every barrel. Its a hyperbolic way of getting the point accross that "just because it seems strong, doesn't mean its not got weaknesses". Notice how he said "It's like saying". He never even made reference to top lane, but you assumed he did. You can't read. You're dumb.
Show more

Spookerton

Level 125 (OCE)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion