: Yasuo's Early Game is Too Good
Yeah his main problem IMO is that enemy skill is irrelevant in dictating how the lane goes. It is *entirely* based on whether or not the Yasuo decides to fuck up and tower dive/walk into all your abilities etc. He has every single tool he needs to beat you at every single stage of the game. The only time you win is when he uses them incorrectly.
: > [{quoted}](name=Sucction,realm=OCE,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=UpFImBkf,comment-id=00010000000800010000,timestamp=2019-06-08T06:40:18.208+0000) > > Yi's face is actually revealed in a splash and he's quite attractive. > > If you have a grandma kink and like Camille then that's on you lmao https://i.gyazo.com/33d39e688932b44ed441dfe60319ea38.png If your grandma looks like this I'd love to know her skincare routine.
> [{quoted}](name=Jhins Girlfriend,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=UpFImBkf,comment-id=000100000008000100000000,timestamp=2019-06-08T08:19:28.483+0000) > > https://i.gyazo.com/33d39e688932b44ed441dfe60319ea38.png > If your grandma looks like this I'd love to know her skincare routine. If you see the lines in her face, you'll notice that she doesn't seem to even have real skin.
Arakadia (NA)
: Yi has his entire body and face obscured. Twisted Fate only has his face that could be seen as attractive. Camille has the gigantic hourglass and overall generic features and isn't at all on the same level as Yi and TF. Even with more males in the game than females, there is not much diversity among females and honestly I would list even more males than OP did because a generic attractive face on a male is not the same as the majority of females having the same body type, face, and regularly hijacked designs in favor of sexualization.
> [{quoted}](name=Arakadia,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=UpFImBkf,comment-id=0001000000080001,timestamp=2019-06-07T18:30:07.465+0000) > > Yi has his entire body and face obscured. Twisted Fate only has his face that could be seen as attractive. Camille has the gigantic hourglass and overall generic features and isn't at all on the same level as Yi and TF. > > Even with more males in the game than females, there is not much diversity among females and honestly I would list even more males than OP did because a generic attractive face on a male is not the same as the majority of females having the same body type, face, and regularly hijacked designs in favor of sexualization. Yi's face is actually revealed in a splash and he's quite attractive. If you have a grandma kink and like Camille then that's on you lmao
: > [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=UpFImBkf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-07T02:55:51.648+0000) > > Look man, if you want Riot to stop making attractive females, change human nature to make it so people pay better attention to people based not on looks, until then shut up, and realize that this is how the world works and the representation for males is just as fuck with every single one of them except for like 3 looking like bodybuilders. Male champs who don't look like bodybuilders i.e aren't conventionally attractive humanoids: {{champion:32}} {{champion:136}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:4}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:112}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:154}} (and Nunu, who is a child) Female champs who aren't conventionally attractive humanoids: {{champion:350}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:420}} (and Annie + Zoe, who have the appearance of children) That's not even counting the grey areas, like Lee Sin or Garen, who are muscular but not really sexualized... EDIT: boy howdy did people get mad about this. Yep, I forgot Anivia, that was my bad. It was literally an off-the-cuff list that I brought up because I want more cool diversity in lady champs, specifically the disparity between female and male-coded monsters. No, attractive isn't the same thing as sexualized. But pretending the sexualization in this game between guys and gals is the same is just...incorrect, especially when you take skins into consideration. Sexualization isn't bad in and of itself, I just want cool monster ladies.
> [{quoted}](name=Jhins Girlfriend,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=UpFImBkf,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-07T03:32:15.630+0000) > > Male champs who don't look like bodybuilders i.e aren't conventionally attractive humanoids: > {{champion:32}} {{champion:136}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:4}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:112}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:154}} (and Nunu, who is a child) > > > Female champs who aren't conventionally attractive humanoids: > {{champion:350}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:420}} (and Annie + Zoe, who have the appearance of children) > > That's not even counting the grey areas, like Lee Sin or Garen, who are muscular but not really sexualized... I think it's a bit manipulative to call Camille "Conventionally attractive" and not call Yi/TF the same thing. There's also just more males than females in general.
xAcidik (NA)
: Buff Towers
This is pretty much why we don't let bronze players control the balance of the game
: > [{quoted}](name=Sucction,realm=OCE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WLAv1JEa,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T18:50:38.405+0000) > > Tbf she does have a pretty low skill floor, similar to Yasuo. > > Extremely high skill cap though, when she's not busted at least. Top 3 highest cap I'd say. See, the thing is, they look at the basement and think it's the skill floor. If Riven uses all 3 Q's to get to you, and hasn't hit you yet, then hit her back. Don't run. This is the biggest mistake I see people make when I used to play her all day. Or when I use all 3 spells and just have to auto them and they run. Hit me. Or they see a fed Riven, and I'm talking all you can eat buffet fed, and think she's broken. If I was full AP {{champion:40}} with a 12-0 score, and a death cap, I could probably 1v1 anyone. But the worst, the cardinal sin, the thing that makes me ignore you, is when people say her animation cancels are easy.
> [{quoted}](name=AngusBoomPants,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WLAv1JEa,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T21:07:33.500+0000) > > See, the thing is, they look at the basement and think it's the skill floor. If Riven uses all 3 Q's to get to you, and hasn't hit you yet, then hit her back. Don't run. This is the biggest mistake I see people make when I used to play her all day. Or when I use all 3 spells and just have to auto them and they run. Hit me. Or they see a fed Riven, and I'm talking all you can eat buffet fed, and think she's broken. If I was full AP {{champion:40}} with a 12-0 score, and a death cap, I could probably 1v1 anyone. > > But the worst, the cardinal sin, the thing that makes me ignore you, is when people say her animation cancels are easy. Not sure why you'd ignore me since I'm mostly agreeing with you. I hadn't mentioned her animation cancels yet, but yes, those can be very difficult. They're not hard in an isolated environment one at a time, but putting it all together especially in the middle of an all-in is extremely difficult and I can respect that. What I'm also saying though, is that she's relatively easy to pick up and play at a low level, while still being at least somewhat effective, as with most champions in League. I have like 150,000 points on Riven across all accounts; I know what I'm talking about and I'm not just some "sword girl bad" ADC main.
: > [{quoted}](name=Tremaursen,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WLAv1JEa,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-05-23T20:23:56.507+0000) > > Same with enemy champs before you complain about them being overpowered. Current Aatrox felt unbeatable to me for the first few days in the hands of a competent player until I committed to understanding his vulnerabilities. Now I build MS while laning vs him and chose durable champs that can make good trades and stuff him in teamfights. > > His bonus healing % while ulted is still just straight bonkers tho lmao Welcome to playing Riven and listening to people with 0 games on her complain about how easy she is
> [{quoted}](name=AngusBoomPants,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WLAv1JEa,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-05-23T20:36:22.875+0000) > > Welcome to playing Riven and listening to people with 0 games on her complain about how easy she is Tbf she does have a pretty low skill floor, similar to Yasuo. Extremely high skill cap though, when she's not busted at least. Top 3 highest cap I'd say.
FkValeRly (EUW)
: eh I'd argue illaoi is a very good starter champion, probably better than garen, its very easy to not int as illaoi and the laning is very straight forward and safe with very little bad matchups
> [{quoted}](name=FkValeRly,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b7dQq4wf,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-05-23T02:30:37.894+0000) > > eh I'd argue illaoi is a very good starter champion, probably better than garen, its very easy to not int as illaoi and the laning is very straight forward and safe with very little bad matchups Literally every single top laner with an ounce of mobility or range completely fucks Illaoi's entire day up.
: Not a single damage increase? Boy you haven't seen the wukong rework, everything about it, is about damage. Can't wait to die from an invisible champion again, while getting beat up by his clone.
> [{quoted}](name=taleofsonata,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xgLxA02M,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-05-23T12:56:11.218+0000) > > Not a single damage increase? Boy you haven't seen the wukong rework, everything about it, is about damage. Can't wait to die from an invisible champion again, while getting beat up by his clone. Removing AD Scaling from his Q entirely, and halving it on his E is...a damage increase?
LTK KoRo (EUW)
: if adcs overperform in dmg meta it means they would be blatantly busted in tank meta. ADCs need nerfs
> [{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4xRPNy0g,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-05-22T19:31:04.944+0000) > > if adcs overperform in dmg meta it means they would be blatantly busted in tank meta. ADCs need nerfs As soon as they're nerfed, adcs scream really, really loud though.
Zac x Me (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Queen of Łight,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=do9EnhW9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-23T16:32:14.687+0000) > > I think they already have that Nope, encountered countless players that typed "kys" or "kill yourself" in chat, even reported them afterwards. Several weeks later still recently played matches on their op.gg page. Rito doesn't care.
> [{quoted}](name=Zac x Me,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=do9EnhW9,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-23T16:34:38.252+0000) > > Nope, encountered countless players that typed "kys" or "kill yourself" in chat, even reported them afterwards. > > Several weeks later still recently played matches on their op.gg page. > > Rito doesn't care. Nope, it's an instant 2 week ban if you say it even once, even with no prior warnings. Seen it several times myself.
Syrile (NA)
: Imagine playing Malzahar and all of that pops your entire passive, along with auto-attacks that everyone has longer range than him and higher movement speed than him as well. :) Banshee's Veil is way too weak sadly, because of the nonsense meta. Much the same with Malzahar's passive.
> [{quoted}](name=Syrile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kLjuEEsK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-22T04:09:25.031+0000) > > Imagine playing Malzahar and all of that pops your entire passive, along with auto-attacks that everyone has longer range than him and higher movement speed than him as well. :) > > Banshee's Veil is way too weak sadly, because of the nonsense meta. Much the same with Malzahar's passive. Malz is actually fantastic right now. Most players have him in S or A tier.
Cevrad (NA)
: He's being downvoted because there are 8 viable ADCs right now, all with good timings in the game. Hes sitting in the most overpowered role in the game complaining about how he can't play singed and do alright. Its a joke.
> [{quoted}](name=Cevrad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4RtZcz3w,comment-id=000000000000000000000004,timestamp=2019-05-21T13:46:50.605+0000) > > He's being downvoted because there are 8 viable ADCs right now, all with good timings in the game. Hes sitting in the most overpowered role in the game complaining about how he can't play singed and do alright. Its a joke. Fyi the most overpowered role in the game is Spear of Shojin bruisers followed by adcs
: i thought what tanks were supposed to do is stonewall the lane, have enough sustain and survivability to not die 1v1, and farm up without being able to kill the enemy either. tank items are the cheapest in the game especially compared to bruisers. tanks have all the skills that allow the enemy to legally afk for 10 seconds, so enemys have a hard time turret diving. not having your tower go down first and keeping up with cs is winning lane as tank, then you just win team fights. if i play a champ that conqueror isn't good anymore you can only push waves and roam, because you're gonna lose every fight because tanks have ridiculous base damage while reducing all your damage and it takes them less gold to do it. although i might be wrong, i might be biased with inexperience since my main is tryndamere and picking conqueror on tryndamere against some tanks is basically not taking a keystone at all since you'l never get to proc it with auto attacks until late game.
> [{quoted}](name=Lazy Grandpa,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8AZFuE57,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-20T17:24:54.822+0000) > > i thought what tanks were supposed to do is stonewall the lane, have enough sustain and survivability to not die 1v1, and farm up without being able to kill the enemy either. tank items are the cheapest in the game especially compared to bruisers. tanks have all the skills that allow the enemy to legally afk for 10 seconds, so enemys have a hard time turret diving. not having your tower go down first and keeping up with cs is winning lane as tank, then you just win team fights. > > if i play a champ that conqueror isn't good anymore you can only push waves and roam, because you're gonna lose every fight because tanks have ridiculous base damage while reducing all your damage and it takes them less gold to do it. > > although i might be wrong, i might be biased with inexperience since my main is tryndamere and picking conqueror on tryndamere against some tanks is basically not taking a keystone at all since you'l never get to proc it with auto attacks until late game. Tanks stonewalling the lane is in part what makes top such a miserable place
: Hashinshin complaining that Bruisers do no damage to Tanks and that Tanks are weak against Mages
Bruisers currently are great against tanks! Though...If they do rework or continue to nerf Conqueror, that statement might no longer be true. Mages uber suck against tanks though. Only like Brand is really good into them. The only other magic-damage tank killer is Evelynn (I know that sounds stupid, but seriously go check out her W and E.) Did he accidently say it all backwards? I"m confused
: Maybe this belief is why your region can't make it very far in competitive events... I've seen at least 9 different ADCs have great impact. Ez, Cait, Varus, Jinx, Kai'sa, Vayne, Ashe, Jhin, Sivir. These are all viable, if played right. While some of them may be a notch better at certain phases than the others, they're all useful if played well and supported right.
> [{quoted}](name=Eleshakai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4RtZcz3w,comment-id=000000000000000000000003,timestamp=2019-05-20T14:26:18.032+0000) > > Maybe this belief is why your region can't make it very far in competitive events... > > I've seen at least 9 different ADCs have great impact. Ez, Cait, Varus, Jinx, Kai'sa, Vayne, Ashe, Jhin, Sivir. > > These are all viable, if played right. While some of them may be a notch better at certain phases than the others, they're all useful if played well and supported right. Reason why OCE doesn't make it into competitive events is the same reason Japan doesn't. Our Region is much newer than the others and PC Gaming simply isn't as big here. That coupled with Australia's extremely low population does this. We have players who are just as good as the best from other regions, we just have *much* less of them. Midbeast and Shernfire both travel to other regions and totally destroy them, yet they're from OCE. It's just a percentage/flat number of players problem.
: quite interesting, then, that i just had a game where a Jhin absolutely demolished a Kai'sa, going 10/2/7
> [{quoted}](name=AetherArising,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4RtZcz3w,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-20T01:00:20.557+0000) > > quite interesting, then, that i just had a game where a Jhin absolutely demolished a Kai'sa, going 10/2/7 That's probably because Jhin doesn't have a 0% winrate? I didn't say "Jhin can absolutely never do anything"
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4RtZcz3w,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-19T22:00:23.838+0000) > > At least the 3 picks below them have a chance at winning vs top where it doesnt matter what you pick. Not even a little. Botlane has been litteraly pick top 3 or lose for the past 2 years.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4RtZcz3w,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-19T22:51:27.538+0000) > > Not even a little. Botlane has been litteraly pick top 3 or lose for the past 2 years. Dunno why you're being downvoted. If you pick Jhin or Lucian rn you're legit trolling and the game just ends when Vayne or Kai'Sa hit two items and 3 shot you and your team. Sivir also nearly has a 55% winrate. That's some season 5 Skarner level shit
: Or start kicking out a bunch of champs out of toplane so the lane can actually be balanced. Lane possesses the most amount of champs of any other role.
> [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=85jTJNlh,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-05-19T18:06:53.763+0000) > > Or start kicking out a bunch of champs out of toplane so the lane can actually be balanced. > Lane possesses the most amount of champs of any other role. That's not something you can do without the band-aid fix I just mentioned. The champions can't be put into another role in a decent state without breaking them top.
: So, when can we top mains expect to have our lane fixed?
It's an extremely ugly and hard to manage change but... Perhaps an aura around top that nerfs ranged champion stats for the first 10-15 minutes or so would be smart. It's a very blanket solution that's sure to cause some problems, but it's better to solve those problems individually afterwards than to have this same issue for season upon season.
: First of all, what is your definition of a visual update? Since we've had some new changes to Malphite currently, which have been particularly small scale VU work and Riot could settle for similar changes if they deem Vladimir equally worthy. Yet that is hardly a 'traditional' rework so much as it's more a qol update, with no VO or splash art upgrades but plenty of VFX and model adjustments. Although these qol changes are just updates that ultimately puts the champ's inevitable full rework on the backburner for a much more extended set of time. As much as Vladimir might become a candidate for adjustments like Malphite and Zhin Xao have, I'm actually hopping he doesnt. I'm arguing against these types of 'reworks', to me they deny the community the potential that comes only from VGUs or a VgU. Leaning more into a Vladimir VgU like which Morgana, Ezreal & Aatrox had. But that's just me.
> [{quoted}](name=Whyte Lyon,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=LdyVjcQN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-19T09:45:57.592+0000) > > First of all, what is your definition of a visual update? Since we've had some new changes to Malphite currently, which have been particularly small scale VU work and Riot could settle for similar changes if they deem Vladimir equally worthy. Yet that is hardly a 'traditional' rework so much as it's more a qol update, with no VO or splash art upgrades but plenty of VFX and model adjustments. Although these qol changes are just updates that ultimately puts the champ's inevitable full rework on the backburner for a much more extended set of time. > > As much as Vladimir might become a candidate for adjustments like Malphite and Zhin Xao have, I'm actually hopping he doesnt. I'm arguing against these types of 'reworks', to me they deny the community the potential that comes only from VGUs or a VgU. Leaning more into a Vladimir VgU like which Morgana, Ezreal & Aatrox had. But that's just me. Aatrox update was a completely different type from Ezreal and Morgana. Aatrox got essentially a full relaunch, while the latter two got one ability slightly changed along with a visual update. Which of the two types were you referring to?
: > [{quoted}](name=Cevrad,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RY5kLyej,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-19T16:56:33.084+0000) > > But your reason is flawed when you get to 33% win rates.... The champion is just innately bad in solo queue, offers literally nothing except a decent ulti in which isn't instant cc... Winrate means nothing and you saying it does doesn't make it mean something. Love that you give no reasons too. Also she gives ap or ad, has ok poke, a ok speed boost,a heal just better then bards, a pretty good shield, is basically unkillable, and the ult is a really good cc in team fights. But you know keep lying and saying she has nothing. Next time you say someone is wrong give evidence or reasons not just your opinions.
> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RY5kLyej,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-19T17:22:04.326+0000) > > Winrate means nothing and you saying it does doesn't make it mean something. Love that you give no reasons too. > > Also she gives ap or ad, has ok poke, a ok speed boost,a heal just better then bards, a pretty good shield, is basically unkillable, and the ult is a really good cc in team fights. But you know keep lying and saying she has nothing. > > Next time you say someone is wrong give evidence or reasons not just your opinions. Considering that winrate is a measurement of how often a champion wins, and that the objective of the game is to *win*, I'd say that winrate is an extremely good way to see how strong a champion is, relative to others. There are exceptions and outliers of course, but not to this extent. Ryze has been overpowered forever and always sat at around a 45-48% winrate, for example, though this is due to his difficulty and reliance on teamplay. Yuumi has this same problem for sure, but that problem alone wasn't what put her at a 29% winrate. She was also much too weak, and it was that combined with the outside factors, that created her abysmal winrate. She definitely still needs small further buffs to be up to par with other support champions, but just remember that if she's ever viable, playing with and against her is gonna be a horrible experience, as her kit is very toxic.
: Don't care about "winning lane", care about winning the game. Renekton can beat Fiora, sure, but if that Silver player managed to match all your split-push and all your rotations as a Diamond player, they deserved that win, and not because they counterpicked you. Also, were you actually counterpicked, or were you simply unlucky and matched against a Renekton main who would've picked Renekton anyway? Because in that case, being first-pick doesn't matter.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ABy0KmuN,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2019-05-18T15:59:40.035+0000) > > Don't care about "winning lane", care about winning the game. Renekton can beat Fiora, sure, but if that Silver player managed to match all your split-push and all your rotations as a Diamond player, they deserved that win, and not because they counterpicked you. > > Also, were you actually counterpicked, or were you simply unlucky and matched against a Renekton main who would've picked Renekton anyway? Because in that case, being first-pick doesn't matter. You can't have a reasonable impact on the game as a top laner if you don't win the game. Top laners who lose lane are starved of xp and gold to the point where they *can't* rotate and skirmish, and it's why I dropped the lane entirely. Your second point isn't really relevant. I wasn't talking about reactively picking a champion because of a champion on the enemy team. I was more talking about counters themselves, and how insanely hard they are in the top lane.
: Why does armor feel useless
I don't think you had that much armor. I think you're being misleading. You had 450 armor because of your passive shield. Once the shield was gone, your armor reduced back to a reasonable amount that you'd have at one item, and level 10 ish; something more like 150. You can't make arguments with pure hyperbole. Do it with math. If you have 600 armor and a Rengar *Only* has a duskblade, he *isn't* deleting you, and this is just a lie. You do realise that his autos are going to be hitting you for less than 25 damage each at that point, don't you?
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rXPrmIZw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-18T06:34:39.303+0000) > > Also had an idea of simply making lethality calculate armor penetration as if it was ignoring the armor shred debuff. (So it would be as if the user had lord dom instead, and the % armor reduction would go last in the damage calculation with lethality) > > > Or just making it so you cant buy it with lethality and must rely on teammates to use black cleaver for you. (its a team game...and this might push black cleaver into its intended role for front line tanky physical damage dealers) I think the issue is that Lethality is calculated last in the formula. > When attacking, armor penetration and armor reduction are considered in the following order: [2] >Armor reduction, flat > Armor reduction, percentage > Armor penetration, percentage > Lethality
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rXPrmIZw,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-05-18T12:37:11.276+0000) > > I think the issue is that Lethality is calculated last in the formula. The formula doesn't really mean anything here. If black cleaver was armor penetration like LDR, it totally would matter. But because it's a straight reduction, there's nothing fancy going on, they literally just no longer have the armor. I don't think there's a non-messy fix to this.
: > -Any ranged champion automatically wins lane against a melee champion. No. Jayce is beatable with most Juggernauts. Teemo is fine too. And all of that is entirely neglecting the jungler influence, because it's SoloQ. But with a decent jungler (as premade, for instance, or in high MMR, or just by being a bit lucky), the ranged champ should die and die again to ganks, because if they harass you, they will push and expose themselves. > -AD champions focused on damage are considerably stronger than tanks. Yes. In 1v1. The goal of Tanks is to play in teamfights, the goal of Bruisers is to splitpush, so of course they win in lane. But you should be 3 times more useful than them in a proper team-fight. > if you are top and you are first or second pick you are going to get counterpicked hard No, not really. Because your opponents don't know how to play all champs. If you first-pick a champ you know well, and they "counter-pick" you with a champ they don't master, you're likely to win, because they don't know how to play the match-up, and you do. > Let's not forget to mention that this is the lane with less agency; literally any of the other four roles have significantly more impact in winning or losing the game that toplane. Arguable. My best guess is that you're right about the "more impact" but you're wrong about the "significantly". If Top lane is the deciding factor in 17% of game versus 25% for the Jungler, yeah, the Jungler has more impact, but they will win only 1 more game every 12. This is just an example, I don't know the actual numbers, but I really believe this is the proper order of magnitude. tl;dr: Top lane is fine.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ABy0KmuN,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-18T14:55:49.820+0000) > > No. Jayce is beatable with most Juggernauts. Teemo is fine too. And all of that is entirely neglecting the jungler influence, because it's SoloQ. But with a decent jungler (as premade, for instance, or in high MMR, or just by being a bit lucky), the ranged champ should die and die again to ganks, because if they harass you, they will push and expose themselves. > > Yes. In 1v1. The goal of Tanks is to play in teamfights, the goal of Bruisers is to splitpush, so of course they win in lane. But you should be 3 times more useful than them in a proper team-fight. > > No, not really. Because your opponents don't know how to play all champs. If you first-pick a champ you know well, and they "counter-pick" you with a champ they don't master, you're likely to win, because they don't know how to play the match-up, and you do. > > Arguable. My best guess is that you're right about the "more impact" but you're wrong about the "significantly". If Top lane is the deciding factor in 17% of game versus 25% for the Jungler, yeah, the Jungler has more impact, but they will win only 1 more game every 12. This is just an example, I don't know the actual numbers, but I really believe this is the proper order of magnitude. > > > tl;dr: Top lane is fine. Gonna have to hard disagree with you on your counterpick point. Back in season 7 when I was a diamond Fiora otp, while smurfing I would regularly lose lane to silver Renektons and Pantheons just because of how one sided the lane is. Counterpicks in top don't really require you to have much knowledge of the actual champion, as a fair amount of top champs take little to no skill at all. It's predominately tanks of course, but it still allows anyone to play anything and get an easy lane win off champ select.
: > [{quoted}](name=Sucction,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Pc%%%8A5,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-05-16T04:01:55.242+0000) > > Ah yes, Jhin, the literal worst adc in the entire game besides Kalista. Sure bruh https://imgur.com/a/9sqEpH2
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Pc%%%8A5,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2019-05-16T09:55:24.278+0000) > > Sure bruh > > https://imgur.com/a/9sqEpH2 This is very low sample size because of the recent patch, so it's not going to be accurate. I use op.gg anyway, so likely going to be different. He had a 47.xx winrate, between Kalista and Lucian, last patch at least. What it is now, we'll have to wait and see.
: > [{quoted}](name=Sucction,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Pc%%%8A5,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-05-16T04:01:55.242+0000) > > Ah yes, Jhin, the literal worst adc in the entire game besides Kalista. People hate Jhin for some reason. I don't understand. He has clear weaknesses and counterplay. Unlike any other Marksman.
> [{quoted}](name=SovereignMammal,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Pc%%%8A5,comment-id=000a00000001,timestamp=2019-05-16T10:37:22.381+0000) > > People hate Jhin for some reason. I don't understand. > He has clear weaknesses and counterplay. Unlike any other Marksman. I agree fully. If the enemy marksman isn't Jhin, Lucian, or Draven, they have some stupid ass bullshit thing in their kit that serves only to frustrate and make them unfun to play against. See: Vayne, Kai'Sa and Kalista
IainG10 (EUW)
: It's bad dude, it's so fucking bad... Source: My ADC picked Kalista after I'd locked Yuumi in a Ranked game
> [{quoted}](name=IainG10,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=IFVlEJ1l,comment-id=000d0001,timestamp=2019-05-16T22:17:05.832+0000) > > It's bad dude, it's so fucking bad... > > Source: My ADC picked Kalista after I'd locked Yuumi in a Ranked game You deserve it for locking Yuumi in ranked
: She's not been the best adc in a while Jhin has been over her since His release. And Kaisa over jhin since her release. Cait has been juggling 3rd /1st with jinx for almost 5 years now
> [{quoted}](name=LordGeovanni,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Pc%%%8A5,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-05-15T22:30:18.803+0000) > > She's not been the best adc in a while Jhin has been over her since His release. > And Kaisa over jhin since her release. > Cait has been juggling 3rd /1st with jinx for almost 5 years now Ah yes, Jhin, the literal worst adc in the entire game besides Kalista.
: Nah the damage is too high. Even URF is unplayable now if you compare to other season. I'ts now a ''smash your keyboard'' contest, it's a ''land 1 damage ability first to oneshot everything''. Look at the situation of the sustain supports : {{champion:432}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:44}} , the only ones viable are Nami because she has AoE CC and Taric/Sona if taken together. Taric cant sustain anything because their adc always dies within a matter of seconds. All their healing abilities are ultra-nerf from mana regeneration and cost and higher CDR than other champions' damage abilities. Why would Varus q/Jayce e-q CDR be lower than Nami's w? or Taric's q stacks? And why does it have lower values in healing than enemy's damage? Who the fuck balances that? Really feels like this Balance team don't understand how hard they hit sustain support with this Damage Meta. There's no runes added for this class specifically, because other class would abuse them. And they never adjusted any of these champions in order to be viable in this fuckfest fiesta
> [{quoted}](name=Kledy McKledFace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eQiPKHXE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-16T01:28:37.903+0000) > > Nah the damage is too high. Even URF is unplayable now if you compare to other season. I'ts now a ''smash your keyboard'' contest, it's a ''land 1 damage ability first to oneshot everything''. > > Look at the situation of the sustain supports : {{champion:432}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:44}} , the only ones viable are Nami because she has AoE CC and Taric/Sona if taken together. Taric cant sustain anything because their adc always dies within a matter of seconds. > > All their healing abilities are ultra-nerf from mana regeneration and cost and higher CDR than other champions' damage abilities. Why would Varus q/Jayce e-q CDR be lower than Nami's w? or Taric's q stacks? And why does it have lower values in healing than enemy's damage? Who the fuck balances that? > > Really feels like this Balance team don't understand how hard they hit sustain support with this Damage Meta. There's no runes added for this class specifically, because other class would abuse them. And they never adjusted any of these champions in order to be viable in this fuckfest fiesta Wasn't Soraka literally the best support for months until her changes this patch?
: I think Yuumi's win rate is heavily suffering from people genuinely not knowing how to use her.
Obviously people trolling is far worse, but...I still think you shouldn't be playing a brand new champion in ranked. Even if you figure out how to make it work, it's just a fact that your winrate *will* be lower and your teammates *will* suffer for it. Separate from that, I also think Yuumi is just an awful champion all around.
nelogis (EUW)
: I present you, the most anti synergy bot lane to ever exist in League History
I would say Yuumi/Kalista is probably worse. Would be almost funny seeing how bad that would be.
: If you're dying to R alone from Veigar then you've let him get seriously over-farmed.
> [{quoted}](name=AeroWaffle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djRc0qwc,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-14T20:20:45.476+0000) > > If you're dying to R alone from Veigar then you've let him get seriously over-farmed. No. It's not possible to die to his ult alone. His W does more damage. Ult only starts really hurting once you start getting low. Assuming full hp, his W will and does deal more damage. You can't get one shot by R unless you're like level 3 at 30 minutes
: RN i have to permaban Hecarim. It's ridiculous. At least with Riven and Vayne, they aren't actually Unstoppable, but Hecarim's god-tier ganks and amazing ultimate make teamfighting and laning phase IMPOSSIBLE. "Just buy wards" I did. I saw him. I couldn't run fast enough.
> [{quoted}](name=Worst Summoner,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hLyBEKAw,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-05-13T02:08:06.266+0000) > > RN i have to permaban Hecarim. It's ridiculous. At least with Riven and Vayne, they aren't actually Unstoppable, but Hecarim's god-tier ganks and amazing ultimate make teamfighting and laning phase IMPOSSIBLE. > > "Just buy wards" > > I did. I saw him. I couldn't run fast enough. I do find a similar issue with "speed" based junglers. Hecarim and Rammus mainly, but Skarner when he's good I suppose. Like sure, you can ward. What the fuck does that do? You get to see them a whole second earlier, before they smack into you with unmissable abilities and take off half your health? I don't get it.
Omarowh (EUW)
: Create a rune that makes manaless champions build mana items
As a Vlad main, I think this would break him. Every RoA he builds would give him like 1.2k health, and 150 AP. Maybe make it melee only, too? There's no other manaless ranged champions I can think of. I think Vladimir is the only one, unless I'm having a mental block right now. Gnar I guess, too. Is that all?
: Abilities need better descriptions.
You mean like Tryndamere's ultimate? It doesn't once mention that you can use it during CCs, and yet you can, and it's been that way for longer than I've even been playing the game. Really need to change the tooltip on that one.
Salron88 (EUW)
: SHould not fiora Q be reset only and only if she hits a vital?
It's very necessary for the champion to even work though. And even with it, she's in an awful state currently. There's sooooo many other champions you could be complaining about.
: Lee Sin W
For some dumb reason, it's actually considered a self-dash. I don't even think you can use it while grounded.
Nea104 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Sucction,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lPOnLK0p,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-05-07T00:56:37.678+0000) > > This is fine and has happened for years. > > Ranked and normal matchmaking is completely different. > > Also, judging by the icons, at least one of those players were duo with him. > > It's nothing different or wacky. This is fine. Yeah, it's fine getting bullied and beaten by a 250 pound guy when you're a 100 one. Good luck with your life with this mentality.
> [{quoted}](name=Nea104,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lPOnLK0p,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-05-07T18:54:57.638+0000) > > Yeah, it's fine getting bullied and beaten by a 250 pound guy when you're a 100 one. Good luck with your life with this mentality. If you actually read my comment, you'll understand why it's fine. There's no alternative to this. Either the gold ends up in a master game, or the master ends up in a gold game. Plus, that gold player isn't a fresh account. Look at his previous ranks.
: > [{quoted}](name=Sucction,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=No9Yhfx8,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2019-05-07T00:58:42.010+0000) > > Why is tabi mandatory against Vayne compared to other adcs? > > Vayne is literally the one ADC it will do the least against. Counterpoint: without T2 boots, Vayne is one of the only marksmen that Renekton can't possibly catch. Counterpoint 2: despite the true damage, literally all Vayne does is autoattack. Counterpoint 3: Vayne is one of the only marksmen that people play toplane.
> [{quoted}](name=FCJAAAAGOOOO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=No9Yhfx8,comment-id=000600010001,timestamp=2019-05-07T01:22:35.073+0000) > > Counterpoint: without T2 boots, Vayne is one of the only marksmen that Renekton can't possibly catch. > > Counterpoint 2: despite the true damage, literally all Vayne does is autoattack. > > Counterpoint 3: Vayne is one of the only marksmen that people play toplane. Counterpoint: you die in 6 auto attacks either way.
JÄGEΓ (EUNE)
: champion balance
I don't think anyone in their right mind is currently complaining about Zed after his previous nerfs. I do very much wonder why they haven't changed Riven yet, though.
: Agreed, I had a rough return as well. MMR decay only happens when over a certain rank and only goes down to a point.
> [{quoted}](name=Beerstein,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0y2KM1yR,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-05-06T17:25:05.743+0000) > > Agreed, I had a rough return as well. MMR decay only happens when over a certain rank and only goes down to a point. I don't believe mmr decay happens at all. It's just your actual visible rank.
Noctús (NA)
: I mean, when you go on a win streak and barely make gains then go on to lose the next game setting you back 5 steps people are gonna complain. On top of that the way matchmaking is right now also makes it hard. Its not even about skill anymore, its about which team has the worst of the worst. One big coinflip.
> [{quoted}](name=Noctús,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MBWRw8Uc,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-05-06T21:03:13.998+0000) > > I mean, when you go on a win streak and barely make gains then go on to lose the next game setting you back 5 steps people are gonna complain. On top of that the way matchmaking is right now also makes it hard. Its not even about skill anymore, its about which team has the worst of the worst. One big coinflip. This only happens if your mmr is complete and utter trash, or you're in D4, which I do agree is a huge problem.
: As someone who has gotten gold/plat every season with primarily Renekton since his release (more recently on another account), I can say with confidence that the croc can make use of some pretty goofy runes and while only somewhat giving up his early game bully mantle actually have a really good lategame. Celerity + Nimbus + Relentless Hunter + Phase Rush/Arcane Comet (yes, with {{champion:58}}!) is fun; they let him roam around the map with ease once he has a bit of KP and either of those keystones are pretty good in lane considering Ren's abilities are all instant. He can rush Youmuu's or DMP with those runes and despite never finishing t2 boots still become a roaming machine, although against Vayne etc. {{item:3047}} is pretty mandatory. My favorite items with said runes right now are either double Doran's + Youmuu's + Sunfire which may sound awful together but Youmuu's active complements Sunfire really well or actually finish t2 boots + Titanic or Spear + DMP, which is just as oppressive as it sounds. With either build he becomes beefy and extremely mobile while also having a good amount of burst. I'm not about to say Renekton's as broken as some other top laners (his WR isn't quite 51%), but it is hilarious how in a season with an already short average (meaningful) game length he can be amazing lategame anyway. It really speaks volumes about the current state of the game - champions can pretty much have their cake and eat it too.
> [{quoted}](name=Dingding123,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=No9Yhfx8,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-05-06T20:13:50.025+0000) > > As someone who has gotten gold/plat every season with primarily Renekton since his release (more recently on another account), I can say with confidence that the croc can make use of some pretty goofy runes and while only somewhat giving up his early game bully mantle actually have a really good lategame. > > Celerity + Nimbus + Relentless Hunter + Phase Rush/Arcane Comet (yes, with {{champion:58}}!) is fun; they let him roam around the map with ease once he has a bit of KP and either of those keystones are pretty good in lane considering Ren's abilities are all instant. He can rush Youmuu's or DMP with those runes and despite never finishing t2 boots will still become a roaming machine, although against Vayne etc. {{item:3047}} is pretty mandatory. My favorite core items with said runes right now are either double Doran's + Youmuu's + Sunfire which may sound awful together but Youmuu's active complements Sunfire really well or DMP + Spear which is just as oppressive as it sounds; either way he's beefy, mobile and has a good amount of burst. > > I'm not about to say Renekton's as broken as some other top laners, but it is hilarious how in a season with an already short average (meaningful) game length he can be amazing lategame anyway. It really speaks volumes about the current state of the game - everyone can pretty much have their cake and eat it too. Why is tabi mandatory against Vayne compared to other adcs? Vayne is literally the one ADC it will do the least against.
: Fix ur match making
This is fine and has happened for years. Ranked and normal matchmaking is completely different. Also, judging by the icons, at least one of those players were duo with him. It's nothing different or wacky. This is fine.
: Can we please put a hard damage cap on true damage champions?
To be fair though with Yi, his true damage isn't very high later on unless he does build AD. It's got I believe 50 damage when maxed, and that's really not a lot to tanks with 3.5-4.5k health. It could certainly use a cap, but he does have to build AD for it to hurt past 20 minutes.
Ilovemobas (EUNE)
: I litteraly fought against a rammus support in one of my promo games
While I do agree, you have to look at your own logic here, which is the same as theirs. "This thing happened to me once and therefore that's how it is". That kind of thinking is how we get antivaxxers. Just something to be careful of.
roughvan (EUNE)
: You give good advice, this is actually so important if people don't want to waste time. I also want to add if there are two people below 50% win rate and if they have bad champion matchups even if they have 55% win rate, or if you have bad team comp, if you know you'll lose teamfights its better to dodge. If you see a split pushing champion like tryndamere, it is better to dodge as most people dislike playing 4v5 and holding while they split, so they can often int even in diamond. You would be surprised how many people play this game on autopilot in diamond. In the end all that matters is your skill, you'll get your deserved rank but dodging is actually so useful and important that it saves a lot of time, that's why you should have smurf accounts, if i dodge once on my main, i won't play there for a day as i don't want to lose so much lp if i need to dodge another game. There's no reason to put up with people who pick into bad matchups or who are below 50% winrate, it means that they are at fault for having such win rate, not their team's fault, that means they hold their teammates down. Its not hard to have 50% winrate, problem is they either try out champions in ranked or play champions they are bad with from time to time.
> [{quoted}](name=roughvan,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rAbftMtT,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-05T06:17:52.424+0000) > > You give good advice, this is actually so important if people don't want to waste time. > > I also want to add if there are two people below 50% win rate and if they have bad champion matchups even if they have 55% win rate, or if you have bad team comp, if you know you'll lose teamfights its better to dodge. If you see a split pushing champion like tryndamere, it is better to dodge as most people dislike playing 4v5 and holding while they split, so they can often int even in diamond. You would be surprised how many people play this game on autopilot in diamond. > > In the end all that matters is your skill, you'll get your deserved rank but dodging is actually so useful and important that it saves a lot of time, that's why you should have smurf accounts, if i dodge once on my main, i won't play there for a day as i don't want to lose so much lp if i need to dodge another game. > > There's no reason to put up with people who pick into bad matchups or who are below 50% winrate, it means that they are at fault for having such win rate, not their team's fault, that means they hold their teammates down. Its not hard to have 50% winrate, problem is they either try out champions in ranked or play champions they are bad with from time to time. Splitpush champs in general are really bad. They can't do their job unless they crush lane or massively outscale, and everywhere below d2-3 don't have a clue what map pressure or vision are. It just doesn't work.
: > [{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Lqcc1Ex5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-06T15:12:11.617+0000) > > And I've flamed in 300+ games and soft afked in 30+ without a single punishment. See how anecdotal evidence is not indicative of the system working? Pretty sure it is working, that is why you are on your new account (lvl 13) , being previously banned for flaming and all {{sticker:sg-poppy}}
> [{quoted}](name=BoRnToKiLL666,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Lqcc1Ex5,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-06T15:15:06.797+0000) > > Pretty sure it is working, that is why you are on your new account (lvl 13) , being previously banned for flaming and all {{sticker:sg-poppy}} If you're banned you can still talk on forums. Friend got a scripting permaban in like 2016 and to this day he can still talk on here as much as he likes.
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Sucction

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