Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 18
not sure if you're seeing anything counter to reddit sentiment, but ill put my hand up to say im in the camp that actually likes the game being high dmg, i think the only areas where dmg is too high is on non-carry roles such as jg and support
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 18
you are nerfing the xp of jungle camps but what is the teams opinion of the gold scaling of the jungle role atm? also feel like red smite is still a major issue, especially considering that ignite is being nerfed even harder than red smite that would swing the pendulum even more towards junglers winning 1v1's against laners even harder when that wasnt the case in past seasons, whereas in season 8 i am in constant fear of running into the jungler in fog of war even in terms of 1v1's when junglers are supposed to be the roaming/ganking role rather than the hard carry role for obvious logical reasons
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 16
red smite is losing 37 dmg, on the patch that is supposed to nerf the influence of the jungler who is pressing redsmite on people and auto winning any 1v1 and the only thing they nerfed from redsmite was 37 dmg??? and in the same patch they are nerfing more than 100dmg from ignite, so the 1v1 between laner and jungler is being swung EVEN MORE in the favour of the role that is supposed to get outscaled because they have all the game impact and influence in the early game that laners can never match, can someone from riot please explain the thought process here, when are we going to see actual nerfs to redsmite's ridiculous damage reduction The xp nerfs to jungle camps are going to do nothing to stop me from being afraid to move from my lane at any point out of fear of finding the jungler in a 1v1
: Crit Item Explorations Part 2
How about allowing last whisper + dirk to build into a lord dominik's? AD assassin itemisation has been something widely complained about since armor penetration was change many years ago, build paths feel pre-determined and ineffective/unsatisfying but any alternative build is just straight up terrible, build path of things like black cleaver compound this and gives AD assassins which are meant to spike early and mid have ridiculous power troughs in mid game(as seen on zed's scaling chart on champions.gg) this build path will let ad assassins sit on these components which they want while also being able to build other items without having to spend 5k gold to complete both items seperately as we would today before we can buy anything else such as bork or crit or spear of shojin our build path could then be dirk >spear of shojin> LW> ER> IE >complete LW many other build paths could open up with this change rather than being strictly be told build shitty lethality or be completely worthless
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 9
Is there anything in the pipeline for Zed? a rioter spoke with LL stylish(challenger zed streamer) acknowledging that zed is weak (he seemed to reiterate that it was only because faker said so, and tbh faker made a mockery of zed's balance in that video) this was over a month ago now, is there any discussions being had or any progress you can share?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 9
I just want JG to get outscaled again like they did for 8 years, logic dictates that the role that starts with the most agency/influence should scale down with game time while the roles that are restricted to an area of the map and are fighting PVP for all their resources scale up with game time This is how its always been, why are junglers scaling with laners now, its so ridiculously oppressive that i have to be scared of fighting the JG 1v1 as a solo laner from min 1 to min 50 every game
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 14
when are you going to bring the overtuned jungle and support roles back in line, as long as a silver jungle main has been the lead of the balance team the role has remained disgustingly overtuned
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 12
When are the disgustingly overtuned supportive roles going to be addressed? early game agency and scaling/1v1 power shouldnt logically mix because then the roles that don't have that same early game agency are never sufficiently outscaling the role that does have it, so when do other roles get their opportunity to outshine the jungler? they can be equally effective as a carry in the late game while giving up nothing early, ridiculously fucking broken every time i try to start trying to play this game again all i do is rage at how disgusting it is to play in lane and be in fear of the jungle from min 1 to min 50 every fucking game I'd love to know anyone who has played since at least season 3 and is not a jg/support main that disagrees, they are the cause of every problem in this game right now, the lack of agency of adc's, the lack of individual carry power for laners, the fact that it is so easy to tower dive with a jungler despite towers being buffed to the point that they are doing more dmg than ever in the history of the game, every problem can be traced to these 2 roles being so unbelievable and disgustingly overtuned to the point that they are oppressing the roles that are meant to be the carries
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 30
Reducing the level of resources you can get from farming the JG from the ungodly broken levels its at right now would hit 2 birds with 1 stone, both fixing the ridiculous state of JG atm and remove the viability of gold funelling
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 30
> All three regions feel jungle is the strongest position xD Are you really just going to gloss over this? when do we get a post on the state of junglers, no point in LoL's history has there ever been a role that combined early game agency with scaling power/1v1 dueling power, the closest ever was s3 mid, but the big difference b/w s3 mid and s8 jungle was mid actually had to win lane first before it could roam and impact the map, jungle has this advantage from min 1 till the end of the game while still retaining the "strongest 1v1 carry in the game no matter where i move on the map" status I dunno how much longer you can keep ignoring this broken role to the detriment of everyone else, every problem that people complain about in this game can be traced to jungle being overtuned ____ >Too much dmg in the game!!! No, carries are factually doing way less dmg then they did in s3 and s4, the problem is roles like support and jungle are doing literally 10x more dmg than they did in the past so now there are 5 champions that can murder you at all stages of the game which amplifies how ridiculously difficult it is to teamfight/skirmish as a full squishy carry ____ >Towers are useless i get dived so easily!! Towers are doing more dmg than they ever have in the history of the game, the problem is jungle dmg is so high that together with a laner and sometimes even solo you can get 1 shot before the turret can even do anything ____ >I cant carry, individual power is dead!!! Yeh, agreed, and thats because riot tried to spread the power of the carry roles that have to fight for their resources with the roles that get resources for free creating a ridiculous imbalance in the game that hasnt been rectified in years, no sport in the world has everyone in the game on equal footing, there are defenders/attackers/supporters in every kind of sport and every kind of game you can imagine, yet riot's philosophy is that everyone should be an attacker in LoL, because in football we have 11 strikers right?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 28
Jungle was never meant to be such a hard scaling solo carry, every problem that people complain about in this game can be traced to jungle being overtuned ____ >Too much dmg in the game!!! No, carries are factually doing way less dmg then they did in s3 and s4, the problem is roles like support and jungle are doing literally 10x more dmg than they did in the past so now there are 5 champions that can murder you at all stages of the game which amplifies how ridiculously difficult it is to teamfight/skirmish as a full squishy carry ____ >Towers are useless i get dived so easily!! Towers are doing more dmg than they ever have in the history of the game, the problem is jungle dmg is so high that together with a laner and sometimes even solo you can get 1 shot before the turret can even do anything ____ >I cant carry, individual power is dead!!! Yeh, agreed, and thats because riot tried to spread the power of the carry roles that have to fight for their resources with the roles that get resources for free creating a ridiculous imbalance in the game that hasnt been rectified in years, no sport in the world has everyone in the game on equal footing, there are defenders/attackers/supporters in every kind of sport and every kind of game you can imagine, yet riot's philosophy is that everyone should be an attacker in LoL, because in football we have 11 strikers right?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 16
Any thoughts on removing AD assassin dependence on lethality? ad assassins dont really have any build diversity outside of what do i buy after my 2-3 lethality items that im forced to buy
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 9
Why does JG get **everything**, they can snowball themselves, they can snowball lanes, they have all the objective control and they can still be a carry in the late game, no role should be a late game carry while also having all the agency in the early game Im not a JG main yet i can be **5 levels up** on enemy jungler while playing in low elo and 3 levels ahead of anyone else on my team, i can't snowball anywhere near as hard playing my main champions in midlane as i can playing a role i never play, im literally struggling 10x more climbing as a mid in low elo as i am as a jungler that is first timing https://imgur.com/BMkDdsz Riot introduced limits to how far ahead of the map you can get by farming lane minions way back in season 4 to curb the power of splitpushing, so its actually impossible to snowball as hard in solo lanes as it is in JG because this season riot removed that restriction from JG camps So tell me, why does JG have everything? No role in the game can snowball like JG that is an objective **FACT** due to what riot did with limiting minion XP and removing that limitation from JG XP and stopping anyone else from being able to abuse JG xp by taxing your jungler being less effective without a jungle item, why doesnt JG item make you get less xp by taxing laners? ____ [**"jungle is really important right now, its a really snowbally role and its generally just bullshit, i think its just a bullshit overpowered role"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=1410) - bwipo [**"better jungler wins has never been more relevant"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=2445) - bwipo [**"another yr of jg being very balanced (obv sarcasm)"**](https://twitter.com/sOAZ/status/1043901707820781569) - sOAz ["I love when camille jgl comes to my lane and solokills me without hitting E, jgl is very balanced"](https://twitter.com/sOAZ/status/1057899753147531264) - sOAz ["And thats one of the reasons xin is so potent in the early game, scout stunned the main dmg threat, but xin zhao has his own dmg, he has his own CC **he brings everything himself**"](https://youtu.be/2AByQWRLYbc?t=22150) - Spawn ____ Why can JG have all the early game agency and still scale harder than solo laners even up to 30min into the game? https://imgur.com/zMeof4D I really really dont care about losing this game, **but every single time i get 100-0 1v1'd by a jungler as a solo laner i really tilt off the face of the planet** When did JG suddenly have everything? early game and scaling? ____ * Solo laners resources are 100% contested while JG is maybe 10% contested why is JG resources just as if not **more** valuable? why can they get full benefit from taxing minion waves but laners get a fraction from taxing jg farm? * Solo laners are mostly locked to 1 section of the map for the entirety of early game yet junglers are free to affect all 3 lanes and the enemy jungler, and for that inherent advantage in the early game would lose influence scaling with game time while the opposite was true for solo laners whose influence scaled with game time, yet now it feels like at no point in the game do i feel stronger than a jungler in a 1v1 * Junglers have complete objective control, they decide who gets what buffs, they decide mostly which objectives to take bc they have the summoner that secures neutral objectives, so why now does that also double as a combat summoner with 10x lower cd than solo lane summoners? does my ignite smite blue buff or dragon for 700 dmg? why do they get literally everything * Combat smites were introduced during a time when junglers struggled to stay relevant in the latter stages of the game, right now red smite just means junglers auto win any 1v1 whenever red smite is available ____ Junglers have all these inherent advantages in other aspects of the game, so why are they scaling to be late game carries as well, when do other roles get the opportunity to outshine the junglers? because it feels like never atm, im a late game hyperscaling midlaner and im still getting 1v1 shit on by the jungler at lvl 15 30min into the game, how is that fair junglers are too strong at every stage of the game and its really bullshit, many pro's/ casters / high elo players and streamers agree so why is this not ever talked about or addressed at all? and if anyone thinks that 5% xp reduction is going to do anything i have no idea what to say, the amount of gold they are getting combined with combat smites is really disgusting.
IG Ziko (EUNE)
: Can u stop spamming this useless comment in every post?
as soon as i get a response
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 10
Is there any plan to decouple AD assassins from lethality or at least give them another viable alternative?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 10
Power creep of the supportive roles has to be addressed eventually, are you going to keep ignoring actual relevant discussion while replying to every single comment by that 1 guy that sucks up to riot on twitter and the boards There is evidence from vastly different elos, different regions, pro games, literally all evidence is pointing to the same thing, diversity of my evidence can't be denied as well as anecdotal evidence from streamers, challenger players and pro players, im not sure what more i can do to make my case heard ____ This is a **PRO GAME** where the midlaner on 1 team is 4/1/4 with 219 cs at 26min who is **2 LEVELS DOWN ON THE ENEMY JUNGLER**, i'd love for someone to explain to me how a midlaner with 100% KP, near 10cs/m is possible to be 2 levels down to the enemy jungler, **why is the jungle role scaling harder than a midlaner that is playing as well as he could possibly be expected to?** When both roles are successful, jungle is scaling harder than a midlaner, that is proof in itself that something has HEAVILY gone wrong, in no other season could a jungler have this level of farm and resources without giving up map impact JG right now is the strongest role in the history of LoL, i dont say that lightly at all, previously it would have been s3 mid, but right now JG does everything mid could do at s3 except does not first need to win their lane to be able to impact the map, they still scale harder than solo laners while having ALL the agency in the early game, no role should have absolutely everything, something has to give, if they are going to scale like laners, then they shouldnt be able to influence lanes, if the role is about influencing lanes it shouldnt then scale like a laner right now they get everything, absolute objective control, early game map impact, scaling evenly/harder than solo laners in both gold and levels ____ [>>Proof<<](https://imgur.com/DJvr3xL) [Here is 3/0 lee sin in s4](https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703) Here are lee sin clips in s8 [leesin in a pro game 100-0](https://youtu.be/mc0PgHexPXU?t=1415) [leesin 90-0 1min later](https://youtu.be/mc0PgHexPXU?t=1452) only reason he didnt 100-0 was because he had to q-q-r rather than q-r-q ____ ["another yr of jg being very balanced (obv sarcasm)"](https://twitter.com/sOAZ/status/1043901707820781569) -sOAz [**"jungle is really important right now, its a really snowbally role and its generally just bullshit, i think its just a bullshit overpowered role"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=1410) - bwipo [**"better jungler wins has never been more relevant"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=2445) - bwipo (scarra and qtpie both say yes) ["the game is not fun anymore"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1165) - rekkles ["i think the reason why soloq is so tragic, is bc i dont think you can carry alone anymore, i think you have so much less power as an individual"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1203) - rekkles ["i think support role is more important than adc role"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1501) - rekkles ["as opposed to notcurne who literally just point and clicks you down when hes doing well"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1916) - rekkles "i think adc should be late game oriented, i like the idea that every role should excell at something, like the support should excell early game and then slow down, **but she doesnt really slow down anymore bc she gets too much gold**" - rekkles ["**jungle should be kind of similar, super strong early and then slow down later**"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1924) - rekkles -Here's a jungler with the most gold in the game at 10min in a pro game https://youtu.be/8v1l0LdqOM0?t=1083 -and this is just my past 6 games, i look back further and it is true for every game in my match history https://imgur.com/a/UQ3esUW These are games on a low elo smurf(gold) account where in the past up until high plat, junglers would not know how to path efficiently and would fall so far behind a fed laner, this is further proof that the role is not just overpowered but far too forgiving and far too easy to succeed with -if thats not good enough for you, here are games at the highest level or korean soloq, taken from fakers' op.gg [1](https://imgur.com/a/62i1Mdg) - [2](https://imgur.com/a/dLmkUqc) ____ If you can have the map impact of a jungler and still scale like a solo laner, whats the advantage of playing a laner? what advantage do i have as a player who is locked to 1 section of the map for the majority of the game and have to fight much harder against another person for my gold and xp? why do i then still lose 1v1s to a role that has the freedom to affect the map throughout the game? when the game was first released, jungle and support were roles that supported their lanes, in recent seasons laners are tools to help facilitate what the jungle and support want to do, its completely backwards and illogical, laners need to have push so jg and support can invade/gank/roam and get vision as they please, its no longer playing around laners or getting laners ahead anymore, because getting yourself ahead is so much more valuable now that you dont get oustcaled anymore when you're ahead on these roles, laners are the enemy junglers bitches for the entire game, when it used to be that junglers would be stronger early and then be afraid of laners mid to late, now all stages of the game im afraid to run into the jungler because he can always 100-0 me on a squishy carry ____ https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703 **Heres how much damage a fed 3/0 jungler did during season 4**, it took 2 full rotations and multiple auto attacks from one of the strongest jungler at the time (lee sin) to be able to 1v1 a laner that face checks into you, nowadays lee can r/q/q e and actually 1 shot you from 100%, nocturn presses R and can literally 100-0 you in 0.2seconds, etc i had a game recently in low elo where i was mercilessly camped mid lane, literally ganked over 10times in a 5min span and never died once, **you would think after such inefficient play that the jungler would fall incredibly far behind right? well you would be wrong**, later in the game the same lee sin 100-0 me with a single combo and went on to finish 5000 gold ahead of any other player on his team - [proof](https://imgur.com/H6hPc6A) ____ it has become so oppressive and nobody is talking about it, i dont get it, how is any role except jungle having fun playing this game? this is by far the biggest problem in the game right now, the reason its hard for squishy carries to feel impactful isnt because other carries are doing too much dmg, its because there are now 5 players on the enemy team that do carry levels of damage, i remember playing when fizz could wq 1 shot you, talon and zed could e-autocrit 1 shot you with IE, gragas could q r 1shot your entire team, carries are not doing more damage now then they did in the past, so why does damage feel so much more oppressive now? its because roles that shouldnt be able to 1 shot you are doing so now when they couldnt in the past, jg and support are contributing to how difficult it is to teamfight on a squishy carry, **how perfect your positioning must be to not get blown up in 1 second from 5 damage dealers**, why is everyone in competitive playing carries that provide both durability and damage? swain, vlad ryze, all the bruisers and tanks, nobody is playing a glass cannon role anymore except adc b/c they are forced to how many seasons was jungle 1 of the most impactful roles in both soloq and competitive?, does anybody even remember season 4? kakao hard carrying KT, spirit and dandy on the samsung teams, pulling out rengar and overall having unbelievable impact over the game, my video above is a 3/0 lee sin during that season 4 worlds, they literally didnt do even **HALF** as much dmg as they do now yet their impact was through the roof, **nobody could say jg was a weak role during s4**, so i dont understand why they have been buffed for so many seasons straight now riot decided that for people to have fun there should be no team roles and everyone should be a carry, because in football we have 11 strikers and no defenders right? just the way team games are meant to be played
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 5
Power creep of the supportive roles has to be addressed eventually, you're going to keep ignoring actual relevant discussion while replying to every single comment by that 1 guy that slurps the riot peen just the way you like This is a **PRO GAME** where the midlaner on 1 team is 4/1/4 with 219 cs at 26min who is **2 LEVELS DOWN ON THE ENEMY JUNGLER**, i'd love for someone to explain to me how a midlaner with 100% KP, near 10cs/m is possible to be 2 levels down to the enemy jungler, **why is the jungle role scaling harder than a midlaner that is playing as well as he could possibly be expected to?** When both roles are successful, jungle is scaling harder than a midlaner, that is proof in itself that something has HEAVILY gone wrong, in no other season could a jungler have this level of farm and resources without giving up map impact JG right now is the strongest role in the history of LoL, i dont say that lightly at all, previously it would have been s3 mid, but right now JG does everything mid could do at s3 except does not first need to win their lane to be able to impact the map, they still scale harder than solo laners while having ALL the agency in the early game, no role should have absolutely everything [>>Proof<<](https://imgur.com/DJvr3xL) [Here is 3/0 lee sin in s4](https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703) Here are lee sin clips in s8 [leesin in a pro game 100-0](https://youtu.be/mc0PgHexPXU?t=1415) [leesin 90-0 1min later](https://youtu.be/mc0PgHexPXU?t=1452) only reason he didnt 100-0 was because he had to q-q-r rather than q-r-q ["another yr of jg being very balanced (obv sarcasm)"](https://twitter.com/sOAZ/status/1043901707820781569) -sOAz [**"jungle is really important right now, its a really snowbally role and its generally just bullshit, i think its just a bullshit overpowered role"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=1410) - bwipo [**"better jungler wins has never been more relevant"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=2445) - bwipo ["the game is not fun anymore"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1165) - rekkles ["i think the reason why soloq is so tragic, is bc i dont think you can carry alone anymore, i think you have so much less power as an individual"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1203) - rekkles ["i think support role is more important than adc role"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1501) - rekkles ["as opposed to notcurne who literally just point and clicks you down when hes doing well"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1916) - rekkles "i think adc should be late game oriented, i like the idea that every role should excell at something, like the support should excell early game and then slow down, **but she doesnt really slow down anymore bc she gets too much gold**" - rekkles ["**jungle should be kind of similar, super strong early and then slow down later**"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1924) - rekkles Here's a jungler with the most gold in the game at 10min in a pro game https://youtu.be/8v1l0LdqOM0?t=1083 jungle and support are providing more damage than they ever have in the past and its extremely oppressive to squishy carry roles The Jungler on the winning team, and often on both teams is ending up with both the highest gold on their teams and the highest level on their team, this role has the highest impact in the early game and as a drawback to that unmatchable early game impact, **in earlier seasons would get heavily outscaled**, this has not been true ever since season 6 and has sky rocketed the roles impact from consistently 1-2 or 3 to without a doubt the strongest role in the game and its not even close Proof, this is just my past 6 games, i look back further and it is true for every game in my match history, go check your own and see https://imgur.com/a/UQ3esUW These are games on a low elo smurf(gold) account where in the past up until high plat, junglers would not know how to path efficiently and would fall so far behind a fed laner, this is further proof that the role is not just overpowered but far too forgiving and far too easy to succeed with if thats not good enough for you, here are games at the highest level or korean soloq, taken from fakers' op.gg [1](https://imgur.com/a/62i1Mdg) - [2](https://imgur.com/a/dLmkUqc) If you can have the map impact of a jungler and still scale like a solo laner, whats the advantage of playing a laner? what advantage do i have as a player who is locked to 1 section of the map for the majority of the game and have to fight much harder against another person for my gold and xp? why do i then still lose 1v1s to a role that has the freedom to affect the map throughout the game? when the game was first released, jungle and support were roles that supported their lanes, in recent seasons laners are tools to help facilitate what the jungle and support want to do, its completely backwards and illogical, laners need to have push so jg and support can invade/gank/roam and get vision as they please, its no longer playing around laners or getting laners ahead anymore, because getting yourself ahead is so much more valuable now that you dont get oustcaled anymore when you're ahead on these roles https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703 **Heres how much damage a fed 3/0 jungler did during season 4**, it took 2 full rotations and multiple auto attacks from one of the strongest jungler at the time (lee sin) to be able to 1v1 a laner that face checks into you, nowadays lee can r/q/q e and actually 1 shot you from 100%, nocturn presses R and can literally 100-0 you in 0.2seconds, etc, **by and large junglers are stronger 1v1 than most solo laners for the large majority of the game**, compare that to your games now when even in low elo where junglers dont know how to path efficiently you have junglers who can literally 1 shot you in the blink of an eye like eve nocturne khazix, a tank jungler like sej can 1v5 your team from ahead and still kill your squishy carry, i had a game recently in low elo where i was mercilessly camped mid lane, literally ganked over 10times in a 5min span and never died once, **you would think after such inefficient play that the jungler would fall incredibly far behind right? well you would be wrong**, later in the game the same lee sin 100-0 me with a single combo and went on to finish 5000 gold ahead of any other player on his team - [proof](https://imgur.com/H6hPc6A) it has become so oppressive and nobody is talking about it, i dont get it, how is any role except jungle having fun playing this game? this is by far the biggest problem in the game right now, the reason its hard for squishy carries to feel impactful isnt because other carries are doing too much dmg, its because there are now 5 players on the enemy team that do carry levels of damage, i remember playing when fizz could wq 1 shot you, talon and zed could e-autocrit 1 shot you with IE, gragas could q r 1shot your entire team, carries are not doing more damage now then they did in the past, so why does damage feel so much more oppressive now? its because roles that shouldnt be able to 1 shot you are doing so now when they couldnt in the past, jg and support are contributing to how difficult it is to teamfight on a squishy carry, **how perfect your positioning must be to not get blown up in 1 second from 5 damage dealers**, why is everyone in competitive playing carries that provide both durability and damage? swain, vlad ryze, all the bruisers and tanks, nobody is playing a glass cannon role anymore except adc b/c they are forced to how many seasons was jungle 1 of the most impactful roles in both soloq and competitive?, does anybody even remember season 4? kakao hard carrying KT, spirit and dandy on the samsung teams, pulling out rengar and overall having unbelievable impact over the game, my video above is a 3/0 lee sin during that season 4 worlds, they literally didnt do even **HALF** as much dmg as they do now yet their impact was through the roof, **nobody could say jg was a weak role during s4**, so i dont understand why they have been buffed for so many seasons straight now riot decided that for people to have fun there should be no team roles and everyone should be a carry, because in football we have 11 strikers and no defenders right? just the way team games are meant to be played the game can never be as fun or balanced again as long as jungle and support scaling is not addressed, back when gold was earned and not given, people enjoyed the game a lot more, who would've thought, if this is fixed, carries will feel more impactful when they get ahead as the supportive roles will not be able to shut them down alone, and the supportive roles of jg and support will feel more impactful because the carry they manage to get ahead will actually be able to impact and win the game for their team on the back of their work, this is how it was, this is how it always should have been, it is more fun to watch and it is infinitely more fun to play, people seek out that rush, the adrenaline of being the god of that single game, where they got ahead and carried, thats what brings them back and that is something they dont have anymore, not on any role except jungle. How many pro's and streamers have exclaimed that the game is not fun to play anymore, its been happening for 3 years, what was the catalyst, what happened in season 6? the absolute monstrosity that was the s6 jungle, both the supportive roles were buffed beyond comprehension, and in the years prior, the number of nerfs to carry potential is mind boggling, if you go through the patch notes since pre-season 4, theres xp changes to nerf how far ahead of the map you can get, gold income changes, passive gold income buffs, all of these diluted the power of carries and spread it across the map, **power is being given, not earned**, that is the primary issue for years now, no matter how much better you play then your opponent, there are artificial systems in place that hold you back from getting to the god mode state that gives people the dopamine kick that makes them crave more
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 3
Power creep of the supportive roles has to be addressed eventually, you're going to keep ignoring actual relevant discussion while replying to every single comment by that 1 guy that slurps the riot peen just the way you like This is a **PRO GAME** where the midlaner on 1 team is 4/1/4 with 219 cs at 26min who is **2 LEVELS DOWN ON THE ENEMY JUNGLER**, i'd love for someone to explain to me how a midlaner with 100% KP, near 10cs/m is possible to be 2 levels down to the enemy jungler, **why is the jungle role scaling harder than a midlaner that is playing as well as he could possibly be expected to?** When both roles are successful, jungle is scaling harder than a midlaner, that is proof in itself that something has HEAVILY gone wrong, in no other season could a jungler have this level of farm and resources without giving up map impact JG right now is the strongest role in the history of LoL, i dont say that lightly at all, previously it would have been s3 mid, but right now JG does everything mid could do at s3 except does not first need to win their lane to be able to impact the map, they still scale harder than solo laners while having ALL the agency in the early game, no role should have absolutely everything [>>Proof<<](https://imgur.com/DJvr3xL) [Here is 3/0 lee sin in s4](https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703) Here are lee sin clips in s8 [leesin in a pro game 100-0](https://youtu.be/mc0PgHexPXU?t=1415) [leesin 90-0 1min later](https://youtu.be/mc0PgHexPXU?t=1452) only reason he didnt 100-0 was because he had to q-q-r rather than q-r-q ["another yr of jg being very balanced (obv sarcasm)"](https://twitter.com/sOAZ/status/1043901707820781569) -sOAz [**"jungle is really important right now, its a really snowbally role and its generally just bullshit, i think its just a bullshit overpowered role"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=1410) - bwipo [**"better jungler wins has never been more relevant"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=2445) - bwipo ["the game is not fun anymore"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1165) - rekkles ["i think the reason why soloq is so tragic, is bc i dont think you can carry alone anymore, i think you have so much less power as an individual"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1203) - rekkles ["i think support role is more important than adc role"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1501) - rekkles ["as opposed to notcurne who literally just point and clicks you down when hes doing well"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1916) - rekkles "i think adc should be late game oriented, i like the idea that every role should excell at something, like the support should excell early game and then slow down, **but she doesnt really slow down anymore bc she gets too much gold**" - rekkles ["**jungle should be kind of similar, super strong early and then slow down later**"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1924) - rekkles Here's a jungler with the most gold in the game at 10min in a pro game https://youtu.be/8v1l0LdqOM0?t=1083 jungle and support are providing more damage than they ever have in the past and its extremely oppressive to squishy carry roles The Jungler on the winning team, and often on both teams is ending up with both the highest gold on their teams and the highest level on their team, this role has the highest impact in the early game and as a drawback to that unmatchable early game impact, **in earlier seasons would get heavily outscaled**, this has not been true ever since season 6 and has sky rocketed the roles impact from consistently 1-2 or 3 to without a doubt the strongest role in the game and its not even close Proof, this is just my past 6 games, i look back further and it is true for every game in my match history, go check your own and see https://imgur.com/a/UQ3esUW These are games on a low elo smurf(gold) account where in the past up until high plat, junglers would not know how to path efficiently and would fall so far behind a fed laner, this is further proof that the role is not just overpowered but far too forgiving and far too easy to succeed with if thats not good enough for you, here are games at the highest level or korean soloq, taken from fakers' op.gg [1](https://imgur.com/a/62i1Mdg) - [2](https://imgur.com/a/dLmkUqc) If you can have the map impact of a jungler and still scale like a solo laner, whats the advantage of playing a laner? what advantage do i have as a player who is locked to 1 section of the map for the majority of the game and have to fight much harder against another person for my gold and xp? why do i then still lose 1v1s to a role that has the freedom to affect the map throughout the game? when the game was first released, jungle and support were roles that supported their lanes, in recent seasons laners are tools to help facilitate what the jungle and support want to do, its completely backwards and illogical, laners need to have push so jg and support can invade/gank/roam and get vision as they please, its no longer playing around laners or getting laners ahead anymore, because getting yourself ahead is so much more valuable now that you dont get oustcaled anymore when you're ahead on these roles https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703 **Heres how much damage a fed 3/0 jungler did during season 4**, it took 2 full rotations and multiple auto attacks from one of the strongest jungler at the time (lee sin) to be able to 1v1 a laner that face checks into you, nowadays lee can r/q/q e and actually 1 shot you from 100%, nocturn presses R and can literally 100-0 you in 0.2seconds, etc, **by and large junglers are stronger 1v1 than most solo laners for the large majority of the game**, compare that to your games now when even in low elo where junglers dont know how to path efficiently you have junglers who can literally 1 shot you in the blink of an eye like eve nocturne khazix, a tank jungler like sej can 1v5 your team from ahead and still kill your squishy carry, i had a game recently in low elo where i was mercilessly camped mid lane, literally ganked over 10times in a 5min span and never died once, **you would think after such inefficient play that the jungler would fall incredibly far behind right? well you would be wrong**, later in the game the same lee sin 100-0 me with a single combo and went on to finish 5000 gold ahead of any other player on his team - [proof](https://imgur.com/H6hPc6A) it has become so oppressive and nobody is talking about it, i dont get it, how is any role except jungle having fun playing this game? this is by far the biggest problem in the game right now, the reason its hard for squishy carries to feel impactful isnt because other carries are doing too much dmg, its because there are now 5 players on the enemy team that do carry levels of damage, i remember playing when fizz could wq 1 shot you, talon and zed could e-autocrit 1 shot you with IE, gragas could q r 1shot your entire team, carries are not doing more damage now then they did in the past, so why does damage feel so much more oppressive now? its because roles that shouldnt be able to 1 shot you are doing so now when they couldnt in the past, jg and support are contributing to how difficult it is to teamfight on a squishy carry, **how perfect your positioning must be to not get blown up in 1 second from 5 damage dealers**, why is everyone in competitive playing carries that provide both durability and damage? swain, vlad ryze, all the bruisers and tanks, nobody is playing a glass cannon role anymore except adc b/c they are forced to how many seasons was jungle 1 of the most impactful roles in both soloq and competitive?, does anybody even remember season 4? kakao hard carrying KT, spirit and dandy on the samsung teams, pulling out rengar and overall having unbelievable impact over the game, my video above is a 3/0 lee sin during that season 4 worlds, they literally didnt do even **HALF** as much dmg as they do now yet their impact was through the roof, **nobody could say jg was a weak role during s4**, so i dont understand why they have been buffed for so many seasons straight now riot decided that for people to have fun there should be no team roles and everyone should be a carry, because in football we have 11 strikers and no defenders right? just the way team games are meant to be played the game can never be as fun or balanced again as long as jungle and support scaling is not addressed, back when gold was earned and not given, people enjoyed the game a lot more, who would've thought, if this is fixed, carries will feel more impactful when they get ahead as the supportive roles will not be able to shut them down alone, and the supportive roles of jg and support will feel more impactful because the carry they manage to get ahead will actually be able to impact and win the game for their team on the back of their work, this is how it was, this is how it always should have been, it is more fun to watch and it is infinitely more fun to play, people seek out that rush, the adrenaline of being the god of that single game, where they got ahead and carried, thats what brings them back and that is something they dont have anymore, not on any role except jungle. How many pro's and streamers have exclaimed that the game is not fun to play anymore, its been happening for 3 years, what was the catalyst, what happened in season 6? the absolute monstrosity that was the s6 jungle, both the supportive roles were buffed beyond comprehension, and in the years prior, the number of nerfs to carry potential is mind boggling, if you go through the patch notes since pre-season 4, theres xp changes to nerf how far ahead of the map you can get, gold income changes, passive gold income buffs, all of these diluted the power of carries and spread it across the map, **power is being given, not earned**, that is the primary issue for years now, no matter how much better you play then your opponent, there are artificial systems in place that hold you back from getting to the god mode state that gives people the dopamine kick that makes them crave more
: Yep, we're also increasing turret damage! We're still tuning however, but they'll be punching champs harder
i wish riot would stop pandering to the lower tier playbase who dont even understand what theyre saying or the implications if you're dying to a turret dive 1v1 your mistake was not recalling to base and giving up 1 minion wave, if your saying diving 2v2 is too easy that has nothing to do with turret dmg and 1000000x more to do with jg dmg being ridiculous right now, not being able to turret dive a player who is being playing bad and being greedy just makes turtling the most optimal strategy even in high tier games, this is actually a TERRIBLE idea, nobody wants more systems in place that reduce individual skill even MORE than it has since pre-season 4 where restrictions were put in place to stop you from getting too far ahead of the map, havent you heard enough complaints from pros and challengers that this shit has already gone too far, why do you continue to pander to idiots who dont know what theyre talking about, the hype from a game comes from the top down, if every1 at the top such as streamers and pros are saying the game is shit to play in soloq then all the sheep who follow them repeat the same shit, make the game fun for the top 1-2%, actually reward individual skill, stop pandering to idiots, it is actually killing your game
: Preseason Dev Update Number 2!
TL;DR - Power creep of the supportive roles has to be addressed eventually if this game is ever going to be fun again, junglers especially have all the agency in the earlier game + sole objective control on the team and are fighting pve for their resources, and now when successful are still scaling like solo laners or better, i sympathize with junglers that the role is not as fun or does not have as much skill expression, but when it gets rolling it is really disgustingly overpowered, junglers used to scale with the 2v2 lane in levels and are now often ahead in gold and xp then solo laners, lots of proof below, including pro players and examples between the difference in power between s4 jg and s8 jungle This is a **PRO GAME** where the midlaner on 1 team is 4/1/4 with 219 cs at 26min who is **2 LEVELS DOWN ON THE ENEMY JUNGLER**, i'd love for someone to explain to me how a midlaner with 100% KP, near 10cs/m is possible to be 2 levels down to the enemy jungler, **why is the jungle role scaling harder than a midlaner that is playing as well as he could possibly be expected to?** When both roles are successful, jungle is scaling harder than a midlaner, that is proof in itself that something has HEAVILY gone wrong [>>Proof<<](https://imgur.com/DJvr3xL) [Here is 3/0 lee sin in s4](https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703) Here are lee sin clips in s8 [leesin in a pro game 100-0](https://youtu.be/mc0PgHexPXU?t=1415) [leesin 90-0 1min later](https://youtu.be/mc0PgHexPXU?t=1452) only reason he didnt 100-0 was because he had to q-q-r rather than q-r-q ["another yr of jg being very balanced (obv sarcasm)"](https://twitter.com/sOAZ/status/1043901707820781569) -sOAz ["the game is not fun anymore"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1165) - rekkles ["i think the reason why soloq is so tragic, is bc i dont think you can carry alone anymore, i think you have so much less power as an individual"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1203) - rekkles ["i think support role is more important than adc role"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1501) - rekkles ["as opposed to notcurne who literally just point and clicks you down when hes doing well"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1916) - rekkles "i think adc should be late game oriented, i like the idea that every role should excell at something, like the support should excell early game and then slow down, **but she doesnt really slow down anymore bc she gets too much gold**" - rekkles ["**jungle should be kind of similar, super strong early and then slow down later**"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1924) - rekkles Here's a jungler with the most gold in the game at 10min in a pro game https://youtu.be/8v1l0LdqOM0?t=1083 [**"jungle is really important right now, its a really snowbally role and its generally just bullshit, i think its just a bullshit overpowered role"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=1410) - bwipo [**"better jungler wins has never been more relevant"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=2445) - bwipo jungle and support are providing more damage than they ever have in the past and its extremely oppressive to squishy carry roles The Jungler on the winning team, and often on both teams is ending up with both the highest gold on their teams and the highest level on their team, this role has the highest impact in the early game and as a drawback to that unmatchable early game impact, **in earlier seasons would get heavily outscaled**, this has not been true ever since season 6 and has sky rocketed the roles impact from consistently 1-2 or 3 to without a doubt the strongest role in the game and its not even close Proof, this is just my past 6 games, i look back further and it is true for every game in my match history, go check your own and see https://imgur.com/a/UQ3esUW These are games on a low elo smurf(gold) account where in the past up until high plat, junglers would not know how to path efficiently and would fall so far behind a fed laner, this is further proof that the role is not just overpowered but far too forgiving and far too easy to succeed with if thats not good enough for you, here are games at the highest level or korean soloq, taken from fakers' op.gg [1](https://imgur.com/a/62i1Mdg) - [2](https://imgur.com/a/dLmkUqc) If you can have the map impact of a jungler and still scale like a solo laner, whats the advantage of playing a laner? what advantage do i have as a player who is locked to 1 section of the map for the majority of the game and have to fight much harder against another person for my gold and xp? why do i then still lose 1v1s to a role that has the freedom to affect the map throughout the game? when the game was first released, jungle and support were roles that supported their lanes, in recent seasons laners are tools to help facilitate what the jungle and support want to do, its completely backwards and illogical, laners need to have push so jg and support can invade/gank/roam and get vision as they please, its no longer playing around laners or getting laners ahead anymore, because getting yourself ahead is so much more valuable now that you dont get oustcaled anymore when you're ahead on these roles https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703 **Heres how much damage a fed 3/0 jungler did during season 4**, it took 2 full rotations and multiple auto attacks from one of the strongest jungler at the time (lee sin) to be able to 1v1 a laner that face checks into you, nowadays lee can r/q/q e and actually 1 shot you from 100%, nocturn presses R and can literally 100-0 you in 0.2seconds, etc, **by and large junglers are stronger 1v1 than most solo laners for the large majority of the game**, compare that to your games now when even in low elo where junglers dont know how to path efficiently you have junglers who can literally 1 shot you in the blink of an eye like eve nocturne khazix, a tank jungler like sej can 1v5 your team from ahead and still kill your squishy carry, i had a game recently in low elo where i was mercilessly camped mid lane, literally ganked over 10times in a 5min span and never died once, **you would think after such inefficient play that the jungler would fall incredibly far behind right? well you would be wrong**, later in the game the same lee sin 100-0 me with a single combo and went on to finish 5000 gold ahead of any other player on his team - [proof](https://imgur.com/H6hPc6A) it has become so oppressive and nobody is talking about it, i dont get it, how is any role except jungle having fun playing this game? this is by far the biggest problem in the game right now, the reason its hard for squishy carries to feel impactful isnt because other carries are doing too much dmg, its because there are now 5 players on the enemy team that do carry levels of damage, i remember playing when fizz could wq 1 shot you, talon and zed could e-autocrit 1 shot you with IE, gragas could q r 1shot your entire team, carries are not doing more damage now then they did in the past, so why does damage feel so much more oppressive now? its because roles that shouldnt be able to 1 shot you are doing so now when they couldnt in the past, jg and support are contributing to how difficult it is to teamfight on a squishy carry, **how perfect your positioning must be to not get blown up in 1 second from 5 damage dealers**, why is everyone in competitive playing carries that provide both durability and damage? swain, vlad ryze, all the bruisers and tanks, nobody is playing a glass cannon role anymore except adc b/c they are forced to how many seasons was jungle 1 of the most impactful roles in both soloq and competitive?, does anybody even remember season 4? kakao hard carrying KT, spirit and dandy on the samsung teams, pulling out rengar and overall having unbelievable impact over the game, my video above is a 3/0 lee sin during that season 4 worlds, they literally didnt do even **HALF** as much dmg as they do now yet their impact was through the roof, **nobody could say jg was a weak role during s4**, so i dont understand why they have been buffed for so many seasons straight now riot decided that for people to have fun there should be no team roles and everyone should be a carry, because in football we have 11 strikers and no defenders right? just the way team games are meant to be played the game can never be as fun or balanced again as long as jungle and support scaling is not addressed, back when gold was earned and not given, people enjoyed the game a lot more, who would've thought, if this is fixed, carries will feel more impactful when they get ahead as the supportive roles will not be able to shut them down alone, and the supportive roles of jg and support will feel more impactful because the carry they manage to get ahead will actually be able to impact and win the game for their team on the back of their work, this is how it was, this is how it always should have been, it is more fun to watch and it is infinitely more fun to play, people seek out that rush, the adrenaline of being the god of that single game, where they got ahead and carried, thats what brings them back and that is something they dont have anymore, not on any role except jungle. How many pro's and streamers have exclaimed that the game is not fun to play anymore, its been happening for 3 years, what was the fucking catalyst, what happened in season 6? the absolute monstrosity that was the s6 jungle, both the supportive roles were buffed beyond comprehension, and in the years prior, the number of nerfs to carry potential is mind boggling, if you go through the patch notes since pre-season 4, theres xp changes to nerf how far ahead of the map you can get, gold income changes, passive gold income buffs, all of these diluted the power of carries and spread it across the map, **power is being given, not earned**, that is the primary fucking issue for years now, no matter how much better you play then your opponent, there are artificial systems in place that hold you back from getting to the god mode state that gives people the dopamine kick that makes them crave more
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 19
TL;DR - Power creep of the supportive roles has to be addressed eventually if this game is ever going to be fun again, junglers especially have all the agency in the earlier game + sole objective control on the team and are fighting pve for their resources, and now when successful are still scaling like solo laners or better, i sympathize with junglers that the role is not as fun or does not have as much skill expression, but when it gets rolling it is really disgustingly overpowered, junglers used to scale with the 2v2 lane in levels and are now often ahead in gold and xp then solo laners, lots of proof below, including pro players and examples between the difference in power between s4 jg and s8 jungle This is a **PRO GAME** where the midlaner on 1 team is 4/1/4 with 219 cs at 26min who is **2 LEVELS DOWN ON THE ENEMY JUNGLER**, i'd love for someone to explain to me how a midlaner with 100% KP, near 10cs/m is possible to be 2 levels down to the enemy jungler, **why is the jungle role scaling harder than a midlaner that is playing as well as he could possibly be expected to?** When both roles are successful, jungle is scaling harder than a midlaner, that is proof in itself that something has HEAVILY gone wrong [>>Proof<<](https://imgur.com/DJvr3xL) [Here is 3/0 lee sin in s4](https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703) Here are lee sin clips in s8 [leesin in a pro game 100-0](https://youtu.be/mc0PgHexPXU?t=1415) [leesin 90-0 1min later](https://youtu.be/mc0PgHexPXU?t=1452) only reason he didnt 100-0 was because he had to q-q-r rather than q-r-q ["the game is not fun anymore"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1165) - rekkles ["i think the reason why soloq is so tragic, is bc i dont think you can carry alone anymore, i think you have so much less power as an individual"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1203) - rekkles ["i think support role is more important than adc role"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1501) - rekkles ["as opposed to notcurne who literally just point and clicks you down when hes doing well"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1916) - rekkles "i think adc should be late game oriented, i like the idea that every role should excell at something, like the support should excell early game and then slow down, **but she doesnt really slow down anymore bc she gets too much gold**" - rekkles ["**jungle should be kind of similar, super strong early and then slow down later**"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1924) - rekkles Here's a jungler with the most gold in the game at 10min in a pro game https://youtu.be/8v1l0LdqOM0?t=1083 [**"jungle is really important right now, its a really snowbally role and its generally just bullshit, i think its just a bullshit overpowered role"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=1410) - bwipo [**"better jungler wins has never been more relevant"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=2445) - bwipo jungle and support are providing more damage than they ever have in the past and its extremely oppressive to squishy carry roles The Jungler on the winning team, and often on both teams is ending up with both the highest gold on their teams and the highest level on their team, this role has the highest impact in the early game and as a drawback to that unmatchable early game impact, **in earlier seasons would get heavily outscaled**, this has not been true ever since season 6 and has sky rocketed the roles impact from consistently 1-2 or 3 to without a doubt the strongest role in the game and its not even close Proof, this is just my past 6 games, i look back further and it is true for every game in my match history, go check your own and see https://imgur.com/a/UQ3esUW These are games on a low elo smurf(gold) account where in the past up until high plat, junglers would not know how to path efficiently and would fall so far behind a fed laner, this is further proof that the role is not just overpowered but far too forgiving and far too easy to succeed with if thats not good enough for you, here are games at the highest level or korean soloq, taken from fakers' op.gg [1](https://imgur.com/a/62i1Mdg) - [2](https://imgur.com/a/dLmkUqc) If you can have the map impact of a jungler and still scale like a solo laner, whats the advantage of playing a laner? what advantage do i have as a player who is locked to 1 section of the map for the majority of the game and have to fight much harder against another person for my gold and xp? why do i then still lose 1v1s to a role that has the freedom to affect the map throughout the game? when the game was first released, jungle and support were roles that supported their lanes, in recent seasons laners are tools to help facilitate what the jungle and support want to do, its completely backwards and illogical, laners need to have push so jg and support can invade/gank/roam and get vision as they please, its no longer playing around laners or getting laners ahead anymore, because getting yourself ahead is so much more valuable now that you dont get oustcaled anymore when you're ahead on these roles https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703 **Heres how much damage a fed 3/0 jungler did during season 4**, it took 2 full rotations and multiple auto attacks from one of the strongest jungler at the time (lee sin) to be able to 1v1 a laner that face checks into you, nowadays lee can r/q/q e and actually 1 shot you from 100%, nocturn presses R and can literally 100-0 you in 0.2seconds, etc, **by and large junglers are stronger 1v1 than most solo laners for the large majority of the game**, compare that to your games now when even in low elo where junglers dont know how to path efficiently you have junglers who can literally 1 shot you in the blink of an eye like eve nocturne khazix, a tank jungler like sej can 1v5 your team from ahead and still kill your squishy carry, i had a game recently in low elo where i was mercilessly camped mid lane, literally ganked over 10times in a 5min span and never died once, **you would think after such inefficient play that the jungler would fall incredibly far behind right? well you would be wrong**, later in the game the same lee sin 100-0 me with a single combo and went on to finish 5000 gold ahead of any other player on his team - [proof](https://imgur.com/H6hPc6A) it has become so oppressive and nobody is talking about it, i dont get it, how is any role except jungle having fun playing this game? this is by far the biggest problem in the game right now, the reason its hard for squishy carries to feel impactful isnt because other carries are doing too much dmg, its because there are now 5 players on the enemy team that do carry levels of damage, i remember playing when fizz could wq 1 shot you, talon and zed could e-autocrit 1 shot you with IE, gragas could q r 1shot your entire team, carries are not doing more damage now then they did in the past, so why does damage feel so much more oppressive now? its because roles that shouldnt be able to 1 shot you are doing so now when they couldnt in the past, jg and support are contributing to how difficult it is to teamfight on a squishy carry, **how perfect your positioning must be to not get blown up in 1 second from 5 damage dealers**, why is everyone in competitive playing carries that provide both durability and damage? swain, vlad ryze, all the bruisers and tanks, nobody is playing a glass cannon role anymore except adc b/c they are forced to how many seasons was jungle 1 of the most impactful roles in both soloq and competitive?, does anybody even remember season 4? kakao hard carrying KT, spirit and dandy on the samsung teams, pulling out rengar and overall having unbelievable impact over the game, my video above is a 3/0 lee sin during that season 4 worlds, they literally didnt do even **HALF** as much dmg as they do now yet their impact was through the roof, **nobody could say jg was a weak role during s4**, so i dont understand why they have been buffed for so many seasons straight now riot decided that for people to have fun there should be no team roles and everyone should be a carry, because in football we have 11 strikers and no defenders right? just the way team games are meant to be played the game can never be as fun or balanced again as long as jungle and support scaling is not addressed, back when gold was earned and not given, people enjoyed the game a lot more, who would've thought, if this is fixed, carries will feel more impactful when they get ahead as the supportive roles will not be able to shut them down alone, and the supportive roles of jg and support will feel more impactful because the carry they manage to get ahead will actually be able to impact and win the game for their team on the back of their work, this is how it was, this is how it always should have been, it is more fun to watch and it is infinitely more fun to play, people seek out that rush, the adrenaline of being the god of that single game, where they got ahead and carried, thats what brings them back and that is something they dont have anymore, not on any role except jungle. How many pro's and streamers have exclaimed that the game is not fun to play anymore, its been happening for 3 years, what was the fucking catalyst, what happened in season 6? the absolute monstrosity that was the s6 jungle, both the supportive roles were buffed beyond comprehension, and in the years prior, the number of nerfs to carry potential is mind boggling, if you go through the patch notes since pre-season 4, theres xp changes to nerf how far ahead of the map you can get, gold income changes, passive gold income buffs, all of these diluted the power of carries and spread it across the map, **power is being given, not earned**, that is the primary fucking issue for years now, no matter how much better you play then your opponent, there are artificial systems in place that hold you back from getting to the god mode state that gives people the dopamine kick that makes them crave more
Sw4de (OCE)
: Power creep of the supportive roles has to be addressed eventually if this game is ever going to be fun again ["the game is not fun anymore"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1165) - rekkles ["i think the reason why soloq is so tragic, is bc i dont think you can carry alone anymore, i think you have so much less power as an individual"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1203) - rekkles ["i think support role is more important than adc role"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1501) - rekkles ["as opposed to notcurne who literally just point and clicks you down when hes doing well"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1916) - rekkles "i think adc should be late game oriented, i like the idea that every role should excell at something, like the support should excell early game and then slow down, **but she doesnt really slow down anymore bc she gets too much gold**" - rekkles ["**jungle should be kind of similar, super strong early and then slow down later**"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1924) - rekkles Here's a jungler with the most gold in the game at 10min in a pro game https://youtu.be/8v1l0LdqOM0?t=1083 Rekkles also mentioned hes not sure if its just an adc specific thing, rest fucking assured, i never play adc, this is not an adc specific feeling, this is a laner feeling, the power budget in the game has been spread too thin and has skewed way too far into the supportive roles that the laners who are the ones with the disadvantage and 0 agency in the early game are not sufficiently outscaling the roaming/supportive roles anymore, **gold is being given, not earned** [**"jungle is really important right now, its a really snowbally role and its generally just bullshit, i think its just a bullshit overpowered role"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=1410) - bwipo [**"better jungler wins has never been more relevant"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=2445) - bwipo jungle and support are providing more damage than they ever have in the past and its extremely oppressive to squishy carry roles The Jungler on the winning team, and often on both teams is ending up with both the highest gold on their teams and the highest level on their team, this role has the highest impact in the early game and as a drawback to that unmatchable early game impact, **in earlier seasons would get heavily outscaled**, this has not been true ever since season 6 and has sky rocketed the roles impact from consistently 1-2 or 3 to without a doubt the strongest role in the game and its not even close Proof, this is just my past 6 games, i look back further and it is true for every game in my match history, go check your own and see https://imgur.com/a/UQ3esUW These are games on a low elo smurf(gold) account where in the past up until high plat, junglers would not know how to path efficiently and would fall so far behind a fed laner, this is further proof that the role is not just overpowered but far too forgiving and far too easy to succeed with if thats not good enough for you, here are games at the highest level or korean soloq, taken from fakers' op.gg [1](https://imgur.com/a/62i1Mdg) - [2](https://imgur.com/a/dLmkUqc) If you can have the map impact of a jungler and still scale like a solo laner, whats the advantage of playing a laner? what advantage do i have as a player who is locked to 1 section of the map for the majority of the game and have to fight much harder against another person for my gold and xp? why do i then still lose 1v1s to a role that has the freedom to affect the map throughout the game? when the game was first released, jungle and support were roles that supported their lanes, in recent seasons laners are tools to help facilitate what the jungle and support want to do, its completely backwards and illogical, laners need to have push so jg and support can invade/gank/roam and get vision as they please, its no longer playing around laners or getting laners ahead anymore, because getting yourself ahead is so much more valuable now that you dont get oustcaled anymore when you're ahead on these roles https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703 **Heres how much damage a fed 3/0 jungler did during season 4**, it took 2 full rotations and multiple auto attacks from one of the strongest jungler at the time (lee sin) to be able to 1v1 a laner that face checks into you, nowadays lee can r/q/q e and actually 1 shot you from 100%, nocturn presses R and can literally 100-0 you in 0.2seconds, etc, **by and large junglers are stronger 1v1 than most solo laners for the large majority of the game**, compare that to your games now when even in low elo where junglers dont know how to path efficiently you have junglers who can literally 1 shot you in the blink of an eye like eve nocturne khazix, a tank jungler like sej can 1v5 your team from ahead and still kill your squishy carry, i had a game recently in low elo where i was mercilessly camped mid lane, literally ganked over 10times in a 5min span and never died once, **you would think after such inefficient play that the jungler would fall incredibly far behind right? well you would be wrong**, later in the game the same lee sin 100-0 me with a single combo and went on to finish 5000 gold ahead of any other player on his team - [proof](https://imgur.com/H6hPc6A) it has become so oppressive and nobody is talking about it, i dont get it, how is any role except jungle having fun playing this game? this is by far the biggest problem in the game right now, the reason its hard for squishy carries to feel impactful isnt because other carries are doing too much dmg, its because there are now 5 players on the enemy team that do carry levels of damage, i remember playing when fizz could wq 1 shot you, talon and zed could e-autocrit 1 shot you with IE, gragas could q r 1shot your entire team, carries are not doing more damage now then they did in the past, so why does damage feel so much more oppressive now? its because roles that shouldnt be able to 1 shot you are doing so now when they couldnt in the past, jg and support are contributing to how difficult it is to teamfight on a squishy carry, **how perfect your positioning must be to not get blown up in 1 second from 5 damage dealers**, why is everyone in competitive playing carries that provide both durability and damage? swain, vlad ryze, all the bruisers and tanks, nobody is playing a glass cannon role anymore except adc b/c they are forced to how many seasons was jungle 1 of the most impactful roles in both soloq and competitive?, does anybody even remember season 4? kakao hard carrying KT, spirit and dandy on the samsung teams, pulling out rengar and overall having unbelievable impact over the game, my video above is a 3/0 lee sin during that season 4 worlds, they literally didnt do even **HALF** as much dmg as they do now yet their impact was through the roof, **nobody could say jg was a weak role during s4**, so i dont understand why they have been buffed for so many seasons straight now riot decided that for people to have fun there should be no team roles and everyone should be a carry, because in football we have 11 strikers and no defenders right? just the way team games are meant to be played the game can never be as fun or balanced again as long as jungle and support scaling is not addressed, back when gold was earned and not given, people enjoyed the game a lot more, who would've thought, if this is fixed, carries will feel more impactful when they get ahead as the supportive roles will not be able to shut them down alone, and the supportive roles of jg and support will feel more impactful because the carry they manage to get ahead will actually be able to impact and win the game for their team on the back of their work, this is how it was, this is how it always should have been, it is more fun to watch and it is infinitely more fun to play, people seek out that rush, the adrenaline of being the god of that single game, where they got ahead and carried, thats what brings them back and that is something they dont have anymore, not on any role except jungle. How many pro's and streamers have exclaimed that the game is not fun to play anymore, its been happening for 3 years, what was the fucking catalyst, what happened in season 6? the absolute monstrosity that was the s6 jungle, both the supportive roles were buffed beyond comprehension, and in the years prior, the number of nerfs to carry potential is mind boggling, if you go through the patch notes since pre-season 4, theres xp changes to nerf how far ahead of the map you can get, gold income changes, passive gold income buffs, all of these diluted the power of carries and spread it across the map, **power is being given, not earned**, that is the primary fucking issue for years now, no matter how much better you play then your opponent, there are artificial systems in place that hold you back from getting to the god mode state that gives people the dopamine kick that makes them crave more
There is a **PRO GAME** happening right now where the midlaner on 1 team is 4/1/4 with 219 cs at 26min who is **2 LEVELS DOWN ON THE ENEMY JUNGLER**, i'd love for someone to explain to me how a midlaner with 100% KP, near 10cs/m is possible to be 2 levels down to the enemy jungler, **why is the jungle role scaling harder than a midlaner that is playing as well as he could possibly be expected to?** what is going on here, how has riot messed this up so bad, and how is nobody talking about this madness [>>Proof<<](https://imgur.com/DJvr3xL)
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 14
Power creep of the supportive roles has to be addressed eventually if this game is ever going to be fun again ["the game is not fun anymore"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1165) - rekkles ["i think the reason why soloq is so tragic, is bc i dont think you can carry alone anymore, i think you have so much less power as an individual"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1203) - rekkles ["i think support role is more important than adc role"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1501) - rekkles ["as opposed to notcurne who literally just point and clicks you down when hes doing well"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1916) - rekkles "i think adc should be late game oriented, i like the idea that every role should excell at something, like the support should excell early game and then slow down, **but she doesnt really slow down anymore bc she gets too much gold**" - rekkles ["**jungle should be kind of similar, super strong early and then slow down later**"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1924) - rekkles Here's a jungler with the most gold in the game at 10min in a pro game https://youtu.be/8v1l0LdqOM0?t=1083 Rekkles also mentioned hes not sure if its just an adc specific thing, rest fucking assured, i never play adc, this is not an adc specific feeling, this is a laner feeling, the power budget in the game has been spread too thin and has skewed way too far into the supportive roles that the laners who are the ones with the disadvantage and 0 agency in the early game are not sufficiently outscaling the roaming/supportive roles anymore, **gold is being given, not earned** [**"jungle is really important right now, its a really snowbally role and its generally just bullshit, i think its just a bullshit overpowered role"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=1410) - bwipo [**"better jungler wins has never been more relevant"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=2445) - bwipo jungle and support are providing more damage than they ever have in the past and its extremely oppressive to squishy carry roles The Jungler on the winning team, and often on both teams is ending up with both the highest gold on their teams and the highest level on their team, this role has the highest impact in the early game and as a drawback to that unmatchable early game impact, **in earlier seasons would get heavily outscaled**, this has not been true ever since season 6 and has sky rocketed the roles impact from consistently 1-2 or 3 to without a doubt the strongest role in the game and its not even close Proof, this is just my past 6 games, i look back further and it is true for every game in my match history, go check your own and see https://imgur.com/a/UQ3esUW These are games on a low elo smurf(gold) account where in the past up until high plat, junglers would not know how to path efficiently and would fall so far behind a fed laner, this is further proof that the role is not just overpowered but far too forgiving and far too easy to succeed with if thats not good enough for you, here are games at the highest level or korean soloq, taken from fakers' op.gg [1](https://imgur.com/a/62i1Mdg) - [2](https://imgur.com/a/dLmkUqc) If you can have the map impact of a jungler and still scale like a solo laner, whats the advantage of playing a laner? what advantage do i have as a player who is locked to 1 section of the map for the majority of the game and have to fight much harder against another person for my gold and xp? why do i then still lose 1v1s to a role that has the freedom to affect the map throughout the game? when the game was first released, jungle and support were roles that supported their lanes, in recent seasons laners are tools to help facilitate what the jungle and support want to do, its completely backwards and illogical, laners need to have push so jg and support can invade/gank/roam and get vision as they please, its no longer playing around laners or getting laners ahead anymore, because getting yourself ahead is so much more valuable now that you dont get oustcaled anymore when you're ahead on these roles https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703 **Heres how much damage a fed 3/0 jungler did during season 4**, it took 2 full rotations and multiple auto attacks from one of the strongest jungler at the time (lee sin) to be able to 1v1 a laner that face checks into you, nowadays lee can r/q/q e and actually 1 shot you from 100%, nocturn presses R and can literally 100-0 you in 0.2seconds, etc, **by and large junglers are stronger 1v1 than most solo laners for the large majority of the game**, compare that to your games now when even in low elo where junglers dont know how to path efficiently you have junglers who can literally 1 shot you in the blink of an eye like eve nocturne khazix, a tank jungler like sej can 1v5 your team from ahead and still kill your squishy carry, i had a game recently in low elo where i was mercilessly camped mid lane, literally ganked over 10times in a 5min span and never died once, **you would think after such inefficient play that the jungler would fall incredibly far behind right? well you would be wrong**, later in the game the same lee sin 100-0 me with a single combo and went on to finish 5000 gold ahead of any other player on his team - [proof](https://imgur.com/H6hPc6A) it has become so oppressive and nobody is talking about it, i dont get it, how is any role except jungle having fun playing this game? this is by far the biggest problem in the game right now, the reason its hard for squishy carries to feel impactful isnt because other carries are doing too much dmg, its because there are now 5 players on the enemy team that do carry levels of damage, i remember playing when fizz could wq 1 shot you, talon and zed could e-autocrit 1 shot you with IE, gragas could q r 1shot your entire team, carries are not doing more damage now then they did in the past, so why does damage feel so much more oppressive now? its because roles that shouldnt be able to 1 shot you are doing so now when they couldnt in the past, jg and support are contributing to how difficult it is to teamfight on a squishy carry, **how perfect your positioning must be to not get blown up in 1 second from 5 damage dealers**, why is everyone in competitive playing carries that provide both durability and damage? swain, vlad ryze, all the bruisers and tanks, nobody is playing a glass cannon role anymore except adc b/c they are forced to how many seasons was jungle 1 of the most impactful roles in both soloq and competitive?, does anybody even remember season 4? kakao hard carrying KT, spirit and dandy on the samsung teams, pulling out rengar and overall having unbelievable impact over the game, my video above is a 3/0 lee sin during that season 4 worlds, they literally didnt do even **HALF** as much dmg as they do now yet their impact was through the roof, **nobody could say jg was a weak role during s4**, so i dont understand why they have been buffed for so many seasons straight now riot decided that for people to have fun there should be no team roles and everyone should be a carry, because in football we have 11 strikers and no defenders right? just the way team games are meant to be played the game can never be as fun or balanced again as long as jungle and support scaling is not addressed, back when gold was earned and not given, people enjoyed the game a lot more, who would've thought, if this is fixed, carries will feel more impactful when they get ahead as the supportive roles will not be able to shut them down alone, and the supportive roles of jg and support will feel more impactful because the carry they manage to get ahead will actually be able to impact and win the game for their team on the back of their work, this is how it was, this is how it always should have been, it is more fun to watch and it is infinitely more fun to play, people seek out that rush, the adrenaline of being the god of that single game, where they got ahead and carried, thats what brings them back and that is something they dont have anymore, not on any role except jungle. How many pro's and streamers have exclaimed that the game is not fun to play anymore, its been happening for 3 years, what was the fucking catalyst, what happened in season 6? the absolute monstrosity that was the s6 jungle, both the supportive roles were buffed beyond comprehension, and in the years prior, the number of nerfs to carry potential is mind boggling, if you go through the patch notes since pre-season 4, theres xp changes to nerf how far ahead of the map you can get, gold income changes, passive gold income buffs, all of these diluted the power of carries and spread it across the map, **power is being given, not earned**, that is the primary fucking issue for years now, no matter how much better you play then your opponent, there are artificial systems in place that hold you back from getting to the god mode state that gives people the dopamine kick that makes them crave more
: Please stop reposting this wall of text.
i would love a response first though?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 5
Power creep of the supportive roles has to be addressed eventually if this game is ever going to be fun again ["the game is not fun anymore"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1165) - rekkles ["i think the reason why soloq is so tragic, is bc i dont think you can carry alone anymore, i think you have so much less power as an individual"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1203) - rekkles ["i think support role is more important than adc role"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1501) - rekkles ["as opposed to notcurne who literally just point and clicks you down when hes doing well"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1916) - rekkles "i think adc should be late game oriented, i like the idea that every role should excell at something, like the support should excell early game and then slow down, **but she doesnt really slow down anymore bc she gets too much gold**" - rekkles ["**jungle should be kind of similar, super strong early and then slow down later**"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1924) - rekkles Here's a jungler with the most gold in the game at 10min in a pro game https://youtu.be/8v1l0LdqOM0?t=1083 Rekkles also mentioned hes not sure if its just an adc specific thing, rest fucking assured, i never play adc, this is not an adc specific feeling, this is a laner feeling, the power budget in the game has been spread too thin and has skewed way too far into the supportive roles that the laners who are the ones with the disadvantage and 0 agency in the early game are not sufficiently outscaling the roaming/supportive roles anymore, **gold is being given, not earned** [**"jungle is really important right now, its a really snowbally role and its generally just bullshit, i think its just a bullshit overpowered role"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=1410) - bwipo [**"better jungler wins has never been more relevant"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=2445) - bwipo jungle and support are providing more damage than they ever have in the past and its extremely oppressive to squishy carry roles The Jungler on the winning team, and often on both teams is ending up with both the highest gold on their teams and the highest level on their team, this role has the highest impact in the early game and as a drawback to that unmatchable early game impact, **in earlier seasons would get heavily outscaled**, this has not been true ever since season 6 and has sky rocketed the roles impact from consistently 1-2 or 3 to without a doubt the strongest role in the game and its not even close Proof, this is just my past 6 games, i look back further and it is true for every game in my match history, go check your own and see https://imgur.com/a/UQ3esUW These are games on a low elo smurf(gold) account where in the past up until high plat, junglers would not know how to path efficiently and would fall so far behind a fed laner, this is further proof that the role is not just overpowered but far too forgiving and far too easy to succeed with if thats not good enough for you, here are games at the highest level or korean soloq, taken from fakers' op.gg [1](https://imgur.com/a/62i1Mdg) - [2](https://imgur.com/a/dLmkUqc) If you can have the map impact of a jungler and still scale like a solo laner, whats the advantage of playing a laner? what advantage do i have as a player who is locked to 1 section of the map for the majority of the game and have to fight much harder against another person for my gold and xp? why do i then still lose 1v1s to a role that has the freedom to affect the map throughout the game? when the game was first released, jungle and support were roles that supported their lanes, in recent seasons laners are tools to help facilitate what the jungle and support want to do, its completely backwards and illogical, laners need to have push so jg and support can invade/gank/roam and get vision as they please, its no longer playing around laners or getting laners ahead anymore, because getting yourself ahead is so much more valuable now that you dont get oustcaled anymore when you're ahead on these roles https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703 **Heres how much damage a fed 3/0 jungler did during season 4**, it took 2 full rotations and multiple auto attacks from one of the strongest jungler at the time (lee sin) to be able to 1v1 a laner that face checks into you, nowadays lee can r/q/q e and actually 1 shot you from 100%, nocturn presses R and can literally 100-0 you in 0.2seconds, etc, **by and large junglers are stronger 1v1 than most solo laners for the large majority of the game**, compare that to your games now when even in low elo where junglers dont know how to path efficiently you have junglers who can literally 1 shot you in the blink of an eye like eve nocturne khazix, a tank jungler like sej can 1v5 your team from ahead and still kill your squishy carry, i had a game recently in low elo where i was mercilessly camped mid lane, literally ganked over 10times in a 5min span and never died once, **you would think after such inefficient play that the jungler would fall incredibly far behind right? well you would be wrong**, later in the game the same lee sin 100-0 me with a single combo and went on to finish 5000 gold ahead of any other player on his team - [proof](https://imgur.com/H6hPc6A) it has become so oppressive and nobody is talking about it, i dont get it, how is any role except jungle having fun playing this game? this is by far the biggest problem in the game right now, the reason its hard for squishy carries to feel impactful isnt because other carries are doing too much dmg, its because there are now 5 players on the enemy team that do carry levels of damage, i remember playing when fizz could wq 1 shot you, talon and zed could e-autocrit 1 shot you with IE, gragas could q r 1shot your entire team, carries are not doing more damage now then they did in the past, so why does damage feel so much more oppressive now? its because roles that shouldnt be able to 1 shot you are doing so now when they couldnt in the past, jg and support are contributing to how difficult it is to teamfight on a squishy carry, **how perfect your positioning must be to not get blown up in 1 second from 5 damage dealers**, why is everyone in competitive playing carries that provide both durability and damage? swain, vlad ryze, all the bruisers and tanks, nobody is playing a glass cannon role anymore except adc b/c they are forced to how many seasons was jungle 1 of the most impactful roles in both soloq and competitive?, does anybody even remember season 4? kakao hard carrying KT, spirit and dandy on the samsung teams, pulling out rengar and overall having unbelievable impact over the game, my video above is a 3/0 lee sin during that season 4 worlds, they literally didnt do even **HALF** as much dmg as they do now yet their impact was through the roof, **nobody could say jg was a weak role during s4**, so i dont understand why they have been buffed for so many seasons straight now riot decided that for people to have fun there should be no team roles and everyone should be a carry, because in football we have 11 strikers and no defenders right? just the way team games are meant to be played the game can never be as fun or balanced again as long as jungle and support scaling is not addressed, back when gold was earned and not given, people enjoyed the game a lot more, who would've thought, if this is fixed, carries will feel more impactful when they get ahead as the supportive roles will not be able to shut them down alone, and the supportive roles of jg and support will feel more impactful because the carry they manage to get ahead will actually be able to impact and win the game for their team on the back of their work, this is how it was, this is how it always should have been, it is more fun to watch and it is infinitely more fun to play, people seek out that rush, the adrenaline of being the god of that single game, where they got ahead and carried, thats what brings them back and that is something they dont have anymore, not on any role except jungle. How many pro's and streamers have exclaimed that the game is not fun to play anymore, its been happening for 3 years, what was the fucking catalyst, what happened in season 6? the absolute monstrosity that was the s6 jungle, both the supportive roles were buffed beyond comprehension, and in the years prior, the number of nerfs to carry potential is mind boggling, if you go through the patch notes since pre-season 4, theres xp changes to nerf how far ahead of the map you can get, gold income changes, passive gold income buffs, all of these diluted the power of carries and spread it across the map, **power is being given, not earned**, that is the primary fucking issue for years now, no matter how much better you play then your opponent, there are artificial systems in place that hold you back from getting to the god mode state that gives people the dopamine kick that makes them crave more
: Preseason Development Update 1
Power creep of the supportive roles has to be addressed eventually if this game is ever going to be fun again ["the game is not fun anymore"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1165) - rekkles ["i think the reason why soloq is so tragic, is bc i dont think you can carry alone anymore, i think you have so much less power as an individual"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1203) - rekkles ["i think support role is more important than adc role"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1501) - rekkles ["as opposed to notcurne who literally just point and clicks you down when hes doing well"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1916) - rekkles "i think adc should be late game oriented, i like the idea that every role should excell at something, like the support should excell early game and then slow down, **but she doesnt really slow down anymore bc she gets too much gold**" - rekkles ["**jungle should be kind of similar, super strong early and then slow down later**"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1924) - rekkles Rekkles also mentioned hes not sure if its just an adc specific thing, rest fucking assured, i never play adc, this is not an adc specific feeling, this is a laner feeling, the power budget in the game has been spread too thin and has skewed way too far into the supportive roles that the laners who are the ones with the disadvantage and 0 agency in the early game are not sufficiently outscaling the roaming/supportive roles anymore, **gold is being given, not earned** [**"jungle is really important right now, its a really snowbally role and its generally just bullshit, i think its just a bullshit overpowered role"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=1410) - bwipo [**"better jungler wins has never been more relevant"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=2445) - bwipo jungle and support are providing more damage than they ever have in the past and its extremely oppressive to squishy carry roles The Jungler on the winning team, and often on both teams is ending up with both the highest gold on their teams and the highest level on their team, this role has the highest impact in the early game and as a drawback to that unmatchable early game impact, **in earlier seasons would get heavily outscaled**, this has not been true ever since season 6 and has sky rocketed the roles impact from consistently 1-2 or 3 to without a doubt the strongest role in the game and its not even close Proof, this is just my past 6 games, i look back further and it is true for every game in my match history, go check your own and see https://imgur.com/a/UQ3esUW These are games on a low elo smurf(gold) account where in the past up until high plat, junglers would not know how to path efficiently and would fall so far behind a fed laner, this is further proof that the role is not just overpowered but far too forgiving and far too easy to succeed with if thats not good enough for you, here are games at the highest level or korean soloq, taken from fakers' op.gg [1](https://imgur.com/a/62i1Mdg) - [2](https://imgur.com/a/dLmkUqc) If you can have the map impact of a jungler and still scale like a solo laner, whats the advantage of playing a laner? what advantage do i have as a player who is locked to 1 section of the map for the majority of the game and have to fight much harder against another person for my gold and xp? why do i then still lose 1v1s to a role that has the freedom to affect the map throughout the game? when the game was first released, jungle and support were roles that supported their lanes, in recent seasons laners are tools to help facilitate what the jungle and support want to do, its completely backwards and illogical, laners need to have push so jg and support can invade/gank/roam and get vision as they please, its no longer playing around laners or getting laners ahead anymore, because getting yourself ahead is so much more valuable now that you dont get oustcaled anymore when you're ahead on these roles https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703 **Heres how much damage a fed 3/0 jungler did during season 4**, it took 2 full rotations and multiple auto attacks from one of the strongest jungler at the time (lee sin) to be able to 1v1 a laner that face checks into you, nowadays lee can r/q/q e and actually 1 shot you from 100%, nocturn presses R and can literally 100-0 you in 0.2seconds, etc, **by and large junglers are stronger 1v1 than most solo laners for the large majority of the game**, compare that to your games now when even in low elo where junglers dont know how to path efficiently you have junglers who can literally 1 shot you in the blink of an eye like eve nocturne khazix, a tank jungler like sej can 1v5 your team from ahead and still kill your squishy carry, i had a game recently in low elo where i was mercilessly camped mid lane, literally ganked over 10times in a 5min span and never died once, **you would think after such inefficient play that the jungler would fall incredibly far behind right? well you would be wrong**, later in the game the same lee sin 100-0 me with a single combo and went on to finish 5000 gold ahead of any other player on his team - [proof](https://imgur.com/H6hPc6A) it has become so oppressive and nobody is talking about it, i dont get it, how is any role except jungle having fun playing this game? this is by far the biggest problem in the game right now, the reason its hard for squishy carries to feel impactful isnt because other carries are doing too much dmg, its because there are now 5 players on the enemy team that do carry levels of damage, i remember playing when fizz could wq 1 shot you, talon and zed could e-autocrit 1 shot you with IE, gragas could q r 1shot your entire team, carries are not doing more damage now then they did in the past, so why does damage feel so much more oppressive now? its because roles that shouldnt be able to 1 shot you are doing so now when they couldnt in the past, jg and support are contributing to how difficult it is to teamfight on a squishy carry, **how perfect your positioning must be to not get blown up in 1 second from 5 damage dealers**, why is everyone in competitive playing carries that provide both durability and damage? swain, vlad ryze, all the bruisers and tanks, nobody is playing a glass cannon role anymore except adc b/c they are forced to how many seasons was jungle 1 of the most impactful roles in both soloq and competitive?, does anybody even remember season 4? kakao hard carrying KT, spirit and dandy on the samsung teams, pulling out rengar and overall having unbelievable impact over the game, my video above is a 3/0 lee sin during that season 4 worlds, they literally didnt do even **HALF** as much dmg as they do now yet their impact was through the roof, **nobody could say jg was a weak role during s4**, so i dont understand why they have been buffed for so many seasons straight now riot decided that for people to have fun there should be no team roles and everyone should be a carry, because in football we have 11 strikers and no defenders right? just the way team games are meant to be played the game can never be as fun or balanced again as long as jungle and support scaling is not addressed, back when gold was earned and not given, people enjoyed the game a lot more, who would've thought, if this is fixed, carries will feel more impactful when they get ahead as the supportive roles will not be able to shut them down alone, and the supportive roles of jg and support will feel more impactful because the carry they manage to get ahead will actually be able to impact and win the game for their team on the back of their work, this is how it was, this is how it always should have been, it is more fun to watch and it is infinitely more fun to play, people seek out that rush, the adrenaline of being the god of that single game, where they got ahead and carried, thats what brings them back and that is something they dont have anymore, not on any role except jungle. How many pro's and streamers have exclaimed that the game is not fun to play anymore, its been happening for 3 years, what was the fucking catalyst, what happened in season 6? the absolute monstrosity that was the s6 jungle, both the supportive roles were buffed beyond comprehension, and in the years prior, the number of nerfs to carry potential is mind boggling, if you go through the patch notes since pre-season 4, theres xp changes to nerf how far ahead of the map you can get, gold income changes, passive gold income buffs, all of these diluted the power of carries and spread it across the map, **power is being given, not earned**, that is the primary fucking issue for years now, no matter how much better you play then your opponent, there are artificial systems in place that hold you back from getting to the god mode state that gives people the dopamine kick that makes them crave more
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 22
Repost #16 - rekkles validated everything ive been saying on the last episode of euphoria and then bwipo did the same thing a few days later "the game is not fun anymore" - rekkles https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1165 "i think the reason why soloq is so tragic, is bc i dont think you can carry alone anymore, i think you have so much less power as an individual" - rekkles https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1203 "jungle is really important right now, its a really snowbally role and its generally just bullshit, i think its just a bullshit overpowered role" - bwipo https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=1410 "better jungler wins has never been more relevant" - bwipo https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=2445 I agree damage is up across the board but i dont think its because of what you said, jungle and support are providing more damage than they ever have in the past and its extremely oppressive to squishy carry roles The Jungler on the winning team, and often on both teams is ending up with both the highest gold on their teams and the highest level on their team, this role has the highest impact in the early game and as a drawback to that unmatchable early game impact, in earlier seasons would get heavily outscaled, this has not been true ever since season 6 and has sky rocketed the roles impact from consistently 1-2 or 3 to without a doubt the strongest role in the game and its not even close Proof, this is just my past 6 games, i look back further and it is true for every game in my match history, go check your own and see https://imgur.com/a/UQ3esUW If you can have the map impact of a jungler and still scale like a solo laner, whats the advantage of playing a laner? what advantage do i have as a player who is locked to 1 section of the map for the majority of the game and have to fight much harder against another person for my gold and xp? why do i then still lose 1v1s to a role that has the freedom to affect the map throughout the game? when the game was first released, jungle and support were roles that supported their lanes, in recent seasons laners are tools to help facilitate what the jungle and support want to do, laners need to have push so jg and support can invade/gank/roam and get vision as they please, its no longer playing around laners or getting laners ahead anymore, because getting yourself ahead is so much more valuable now that you dont get oustcaled anymore when you're ahead on these roles https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703 Heres how much damage a fed 3/0 jungler did during season 4, compare that to your games now when even in low elo where junglers dont know how to path efficiently you have junglers who can literally 1 shot you in the blink of an eye like eve nocturne khazix, it really isnt a champion problem either, they are getting so much more gold and xp then they ever got in the past, a tank jungler like sej can 1v5 your team from ahead and still kill your squishy carry it took 2 full rotations and multiple auto attacks from one of the strongest jungler at the time (lee sin) to be able to 1v1 a laner that face checks into you, nowadays lee can r/q/q e and actually 1 shot you from 100%, nocturn presses R and can literally 100-0 you in 0.2seconds, etc, **by and large junglers are stronger 1v1 than most solo laners for the large majority of the game**, how can anyone lane and trade aggressively when being less than 90% hp means you are in threat of being 1 shot by pretty much any jungler atm In past seasons when i was smurfing in low elo like gold/silver, the enemy jg didnt know how to path efficiently and would fall very far behind in levels and items, right now even in gold junglers are consistently the strongest champions on the map for the entire game, this is a sign that skill expression has been lowered and pathing has become linear and fail proof, it has become so oppressive and nobody is talking about it, i dont get it, how is any role except jungle having fun playing this game? this is by far the biggest problem in the game right now, the reason its hard for squishy carries to feel impactful isnt because other carries are doing too much dmg, its because there are now 5 players on the enemy team that do carry levels of damage, how many seasons was jungle 1 of the most impactful roles in both soloq and competitive, i dont understand why they have been buffed for so many seasons straight now riot decided that for people to have fun there should be no team roles and everyone should be a carry, because in football we have 11 strikers and no defenders, just the way team games are meant to be played the game can never be as fun or balanced again as long as jungle and support scaling is not addressed, back when gold was earned and not given, people enjoyed the game a lot more, who would've thought
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 17
Repost #15 - rekkles actually validated everything ive been saying on the last episode of euphoria btw I agree damage is up across the board but i dont think its because of what you said, jungle and support are providing more damage than they ever have in the past and its extremely oppressive to squishy carry roles The Jungler on the winning team, and often on both teams is ending up with both the highest gold on their teams and the highest level on their team, this role has the highest impact in the early game and as a drawback to that unmatchable early game impact, in earlier seasons would get heavily outscaled, this has not been true ever since season 6 and has sky rocketed the roles impact from consistently 1/2 or 3 to without a doubt the strongest role in the game and its not even close If you can have the map impact of a jungler and still scale like a solo laner, whats the advantage of playing a laner? what advantage do i have as a player who is locked to 1 section of the map for the majority of the game and have to fight much harder against another person for my gold and xp? why do i then still lose 1v1s to a role that has the freedom to affect the map throughout the game? Proof, this is just my past 6 games, i look back further and it is true for every game in my match history, go check your own and see https://imgur.com/a/UQ3esUW https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703 Heres how much damage a fed 3/0 jungler did during season 4, compare that to your games now when even in low elo where junglers dont know how to path efficiently you have junglers who can literally 1 shot you in the blink of an eye like eve nocturne khazix, it really isnt a champion problem either, they are getting so much more gold and xp then they ever got in the past, a tank jungler like sej can 1v5 your team from ahead and still kill your squishy carry it took 2 full rotations from one of the strongest jungler at the time (lee sin) to be able to 1v1 a laner that face checks into you, nowadays nocturn presses R and can literally 100-0 you in 0.2seconds, and its not just 1 champion, by and large junglers are stronger 1v1 than most solo laners for the large majority of the game, how can anyone lane and trade aggressively when being less than 90% hp means you are in threat of being 1 shot by pretty much any jungler atm In past seasons when i was smurfing in low elo like gold/silver, the enemy jg didnt know how to path efficiently and would fall very far behind in levels and items, right now even in gold junglers are consistently the strongest champions on the map for the entire game, this is a sign that skill expression has been lowered and pathing has become linear and fail proof, it has become so oppressive and nobody is talking about it, i dont get it, how is any role except jungle having fun playing this game? this is by far the biggest problem in the game right now, the reason its hard for squishy carries to feel impactful isnt because other carries are doing too much dmg, its because there are now 5 players on the enemy team that do carry levels of damage, how many seasons was jungle 1 of the most impactful roles in both soloq and competitive, i dont understand why they have been buffed for so many seasons straight now riot decided that for people to have fun there should be no team roles and everyone should be a carry, because in football we have 11 strikers and no defenders, just the way team games are meant to be played the game can never be as fun or balanced again as long as jungle and support scaling is not addressed, back when gold was earned and not given, people enjoyed the game a lot more, who would've thought
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 15
rekkles actually validated everything ive been saying even though ive been getting spam downvoted on reddit and the boards every single time JG/support not getting outscaled anymore when they should because of the advantage they have early and carry power feeling lower are entwined problems junglers and supports are bringing way too much dmg to the game, i could post my entire rant and all my justification again but i'll just link them [here](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/H9b9Ekqw-league-gameplay-changes-over-the-next-few-months?comment=0046) and [here](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/NjvuRnlo-quick-gameplay-thoughts-august-15?comment=0028) "the game is not fun anymore" - rekkles https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1165 "i think the reason why soloq is so tragic, is bc i dont think you can carry alone anymore, i think you have so much less power as an individual" - rekkles https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1203 "i think support role is more important than adc role" - rekkles https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1501 "as opposed to nocturne who literally just point and clicks you down when hes doing well" - rekkles https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1916 "i think adc should be late game oriented, i like the idea that every role should excell at something, like the support should excell early game and then slow down, but she doesnt really slow down anymore bc she gets too much gold" "jungle should be kind of similar, super strong early and then slow down later" https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1924 Rekkles also mentioned hes not sure if its just an adc specific thing, rest fucking assured, i never play adc, this is not an adc specific feeling, this is a laner feeling, the power budget in the game has been spread too thin and has skewed way too far into the supportive roles that the laners who are the ones with the disadvantage and 0 agency in the early game are not sufficiently outscaling the roaming/supportive roles anymore
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 15
Take the time to read this through What is your opinion on how much dmg support and jg specifically is bringing to the game atm compared to prior seasons, specifically how much dmg junglers are bringing to a gank on their own, do you believe this is how the role always should have been and prior seasons jungler damage was just too low? here is a comparison of a 3/0 jungler in season 4 1v1ing a laner, it took 15seconds and 2 full rotations https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703 compare this to today when eve nocturn khazix xinzhao even sejauni can often 1v1 you in a single rotation, in eve and nocturns case they can 1v1 you as if they were a midlane assassin literally 100-0 you in the blink of an eye and they dont need to be fed in my own opinion, this was the worst time for you guys to decide to leave jungle untouched, i think there is less skill expression in jungle atm and i can prove it, ive played at many different elo's, ive climbed from silver to diamond 3 multiple times on different accounts, there are some things you pick up along the way, like in lower elos, junglers dont path efficiently and thus fall very far behind in gold and xp, this doesnt happen anymore with the way camp respawn timers have been setup, you clear your entire jungle and then u get plenty of time to gank, everyone does the same thing so smart/efficient pathing has been mostly reduced, here are my games in gold, in previous seasons mostly before the monstrosity of season 6, in silver gold and low plat, jungler would be 2-4 levels below a midlaner who was ahead and very far below in items, in this image you can see that in most cases, the jungler that gets ahead even in low elo is even or ahead in levels/xp and is often times the most fed member in the game in terms of gold, this is on top of the increased efficiency and damage of jungle items since season 4-5 https://imgur.com/a/UQ3esUW this is by far the biggest problem in the game right now in my humble opinion, the reason its hard for squishy carries to feel impactful isnt because other carries are doing too much dmg, its because there are now 5 players on the enemy team that do carry levels of damage, jungle has been throughout its entire history one of the most impactful roles in both soloq and competitive far before all the extra advantages they were given in recent seasons, but with how the game is at the moment, they are far an away the no.1 role and its not even close i use this analogy a lot, league is a team game, just like football/soccor, yet in football people dont feel the need to have 11 strikers on the field, there are centers wingers strikers and defenders, yet riot has seen fit that in their team game, everyone will be a striker, everyone must be a high dmg dealer to be able to have fun, this is something i disagree with, and while i think most people dont even realise this is where a large bulk of their frustration is lying, you cannot feel impactful as a carry when your power has been taken away from you and distributed evenly among the entire field, some might say that is balance but i refer back to my football analogy, if everyone is the carry, nobody feels like the carry, and that is the overwhelming narrative in the league community today, nobody feels impactful towards winning the game, but they cant put their finger on why, i come from a background in analytics, i do it for a living and i believe this is the reason why, ive been playing since s3 and this is what ive analysed, take from it what you will Heres some sentiment analysis, they know that it feels meh to win and shit to lose, but again they dont know why, i really feel like i have that answer, they want that adrenaline rush, they want that godlike feeling of being so strong noone can touch them, they want to be a carry again, the power dilution and spread has diminished that feeling https://imgur.com/YaegaVy carries will feel more impactful when they get ahead as the supportive roles will not be able to shut them down alone, and the supportive roles of jg and support will feel more impactful because the carry they manage to get ahead will actually be able to impact and win the game for their team on the back of their work, this is how it was, this is how it always should have been, it is more fun to watch and it is infinitely more fun to play, people seek out that rush, the adrenaline of being the god of that single game, where they got ahead and carried, thats what brings them back and that is something they dont have anymore, not on any role except jungle.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 10
Thoughts on jungle and support scaling? jg scaling is the most oppressive but both supportive roles having access to double or triple the dmg they had in previous seasons is the main reason damage feels higher across the board, because there are 5 champs doing carry damage instead of 3, ive played since season 3, and i can tell you carry dmg(from laners) is not that high right now and its getting further nerfed which is just going to make the game slow and boring again and has not at all addressed the issue that it feels terrible to be stuck in a lane fighting against a player for your gold when the roaming roles are able to literally 1 shot you even throughout mid and late game
: League gameplay changes over the next few months
I agree damage is up across the board but i dont think its because of what you said, jungle and support are providing more damage than they ever have in the past and its extremely oppressive to squishy carry roles The Jungler on the winning team, and often on both teams is ending up with both the highest gold on their teams and the highest level on their team, this role has the highest impact in the early game and as a drawback to that unmatchable early game impact, in earlier seasons would get heavily outscaled, this has not been true ever since season 6 and has sky rocketed the roles impact from consistently 1/2 or 3 to without a doubt the strongest role in the game and its not even close If you can have the map impact of a jungler and still scale like a solo laner, whats the advantage of playing a laner? what advantage do i have as a player who is locked to 1 section of the map for the majority of the game and have to fight much harder against another person for my gold and xp? why do i then still lose 1v1s to a role that has the freedom to affect the map throughout the game? Proof, this is just my past 6 games, i look back further and it is true for every game in my match history, go check your own and see https://imgur.com/a/UQ3esUW https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703 Heres how much damage a fed 3/0 jungler did during season 4, compare that to your games now when even in low elo where junglers dont know how to path efficiently you have junglers who can literally 1 shot you in the blink of an eye like eve nocturne khazix, it really isnt a champion problem either, they are getting so much more gold and xp then they ever got in the past, a tank jungler like sej can 1v5 your team from ahead and still kill your squishy carry it took 2 full rotations from one of the strongest jungler at the time (lee sin) to be able to 1v1 a laner that face checks into you, nowadays nocturn presses R and can literally 100-0 you in 0.2seconds, and its not just 1 champion, by and large junglers are stronger 1v1 than most solo laners for the large majority of the game, how can anyone lane and trade aggressively when being less than 90% hp means you are in threat of being 1 shot by pretty much any jungler atm In past seasons when i was smurfing in low elo like gold/silver, the enemy jg didnt know how to path efficiently and would fall very far behind in levels and items, right now even in gold junglers are consistently the strongest champions on the map for the entire game, it has become so oppressive and nobody is talking about it, i dont get it, how is any role except jungle having fun playing this game? this is by far the biggest problem in the game right now, the reason its hard for squishy carries to feel impactful isnt because other carries are doing too much dmg, its because there are now 5 players on the enemy team that do carry levels of damage, how many seasons was jungle 1 of the most impactful roles in both soloq and competitive, i dont understand why they have been buffed for so many seasons straight now riot decided that for people to have fun there should be no team roles and everyone should be a carry, because in football we have 11 strikers and no defenders, just the way team games are meant to be played i dont know at which point riot decided that every role should have carry damage but the game can never be as fun or balanced again as long as jungle and support scaling is not addressed
: Tank changes for 8.16
it feels like riot's only purpose in life is to make the lowest level of counterplay stat balls, unfun, cancerous kits to be the strongest and most viable at all times, what other purpose do they have to keep buffing these champions who actually wants to play skarner rammus maokai malzahar TK Nautius amumu garen vlad morgana janna lulu, why do they get buffed until we are forced to play them because they are so broken, nobody wants to play this shit or play against this shit, i really really want to know the thought process behind these changes
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 27
when people talk about the damage creep, the problem is more that there are 5 roles now that actually do carry dmg rather than 3 or 2 if top is a tank, which is why tanky mages and bruisers are the strongest roles right now, they can survive 5 dmg dealers and still dish out dmg, riot decided that for people to have fun there should be no team roles and everyone should be a carry, because in football we have 11 strikers and no defenders, just the way team games are meant to be played https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703 Here's how much dmg a 3/0 jungler did during season 4, we're talking about the season of the legendary junglers, kakao hard carrying KT, dandy and spirit on the samsung teams, shook's legendary lee sin game against najin to help ALL perfect game a korean team at worlds, some of the most impactful jungle play in history all of this during season 4 when it took 2 full rotations of the strongest jungler at the time (lee sin) to be able to 1v1 a laner that face checks into you, nowadays nocturn presses R and can literally 100-0 you in 0.2seconds how can anyone lane and trade when being less than 90% hp means you are in threat of being 1 shot by pretty much any jungler atm i dont know at which point riot decided that every role should have carry damage but the game can never be as fun or balanced again as long as jungle and support scaling is not addressed
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 13
Serious question, why is riot going through the list of very low counterplay/very simplistic champions and buffing them, isnt there a serious worry that low skill cap champions shouldnt just straight up be better in every way than more complex champions? its not fun to play/play against or watch malzahar skarner morgana annie etc etc
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 6
are riot really going to continue to ignore fizz's illogical ultimate? Why is a completely 100% melee champion being punished for engaging within his fighting range, can 1 single person from riot actually try and explain to me how that makes any sense, i doubt i will ever get an answer.
: **6/21/18 Update** First, I want to thank you all for the feedback, especially for you who have had a chance to try him out on the PBE. I'm trying to read it all, even if I don't have time to respond to it all. I'm going to try to summarize the broad themes of feedback I'm hearing from you all, and my brief thoughts: * **"Revert Fizz's W to pre-Assassin Rework"** * We aren't planning on doing this, since we believe that this model isn't particularly healthy, especially with a high AP assassin. While I agree that the deceptive damage and 'whittling-you-down' feeling around the empowered bleed do feel "tricky" and playing into Fizz's nature, we ultimately want to make Fizz's windows of power and burst more clear and consistent to Fizz players and opponents. * **"Make Melee Range Shark Viable/Revert the Shark changes"** * We aren't bringing back the old R, but we intend to make your melee range ult a bit more effective with these changes. In the case where you do land a melee range ult, you can unload your W burst immediately, which should make this case feel more powerful/give you more options. * **"Will this change make Tank or On-Hit Fizz crowd out AP Assassin Fizz?"** * We will be trying to make sure we aren't shifting too much power away from AP Assassin Fizz. You'll notice in some of the changes below we're shifting more power into his AP ratios. * **"His Damage Seems Low"** * From the PBE testing we've seen, we think his damage numbers are around where we intended, but it doesn't feel as impactful, due to the missing health execute damage on the second W. I'm trying an iteration below where we remove this in favor of just flatter damage on his second W. * **"Without the W reset on kill, his laning/farming under turret is going to be terrible"** * We tried some iterations of the new W with this, but they either had really unintuitive interactions or gave him a lot of strong wave-clearing power with no real downtime for his opponents to play around. So we aren't currently planning on adding this back, but want to make sure his laning phase and ability to farm still holds up without it (even if it might be less safe to just farm with it under turret). Below I'm increasing the mana refund on his W, and I'll be looking for other ways to increase his farming ability if we find it insufficient - keep in mind, the second cast is free, so this change will effectively make it mana neutral for him to last hit with it. Here are some changes that will land on PBE tomorrow: * Mana refund on kill with W: 10/14/18/22/26 >>> 15/20/25/30/35 * W2 Damage: 35/50/65/80/95 + 50% AP (+0-100% increased damage based on enemy % health missing) >>> 35/50/65/80/95 + 90% AP Thank you again for your feedback so far. Over the weekend, please give it a shot on the PBE and let me know how it feels. I'll likely have another update like this sometime next week.
So for the 2nd time a rioter is listening to all the fizz mains in unison calling for the same thing, and once again the rioter is pissing on our faces and saying we hear you but were going to do this our way anyway, this is the most insulting thing ive seen from a game company, i would rather be ignored
: The ult changes in the Assassin rework created healthier counterplay for opponents and introduced some elements of decisionmaking, so I don't think we're looking to change those anytime soon. However, you'll notice with these changes that Fizz's burst case from melee range ulting someone is better, since you don't have to wait for your mark to prime (and instead double cast W instantly).
Healthier for who you fucking retard, bruisers and adc's have faster burst than a squishy full melee assassin, tell me how it is logical for a champion that has no fucking way of fighting outside of melee range to be punished for starting a fight in fucking melee range, his entire kit is about being able to get into melee range to do dmg and then you punish him if he gets into melee range without using ult first If im a fucking assassin, hiding in a fucking bush, and an adc walks face first into me, you could literally lose that fucking 1v1 because you are forced to use a 0 damage ultimate, what kind of fucking logic is that, meanwhile bruisers can 1 shot you in 0.1 seconds while being tanky, vladimir can 1shot you with 2 abilities while doing fucking aoe damage and being tanky, at the same time all of them have 10x better laning phases and 10x better scaling, tell me what fucking purpose is there in playing fizz, at least the old fizz was one of the few scaling assassins, weak early -> scale with gametime, now its ->burning pile of rubbish early ->op mid -> burning pile of rubbish late, illogical power curve for a linear garbage champion, hes not even fun anymore since his garbage assassin rework that even riot fucking admits had a failed premise in the first place now, all the other garbage reworks got reverted, why is fizz getting the shit sandwhich again revert this monstrosity completely
: Interesting. I'm glad to see Fizz getting work, even if I'm not super on board with this first iteration. And I'm glad they don't have Phroxzon on it again: I think he burned all the bridges with the Fizz community the last time y'all touched the fish. I've long been a Fizz player, and his rework in the assassin update killed not just the champion for me, but also was the start of the end of playing at all. I haven't played since Kai'sa's release, I think. I'm hoping that the changes to Fizz will be good enough to convince myself to get back into it! One thing I'm curious about: why are y'all so hesitant to bring back the old "W empowers your AAs for a while" paradigm? As I see it, the best change for Fizz's health was "guppy shark" in close range, the removal of the "jump on someone and slap an unmissable ult on them from melee range" playstyle. As for the newer versions of W, it just seems like they've all tried to do what the previous W already did, except they've been more clunky and worse for (my favored position) jungle Fizz. As far as I see it, old W spread out its damage just fine, and created real decision-making that is lacking in the current iteration of Fizz. Old W, you _didn't_ want to stab someone, pole, and stab them again, where their only counterplay is to try to move out of your range (since you're invulnerable in the W cook time). You wanted to stay in melee range, getting off as many AAs as possible. If they forced you to pole during your W uptime, you traded damage for safety. It was a good interaction between Fizz and his opponent. As for this new version of W, I don't see how it's better than the current one, and I definitely don't see how it's better than the old one. I guess it lets you get two Lich Blade procs? Even that doesn't seem like a great thing, since it ties him even more to an item. If you wouldn't mind, would you address why old W is bad, and how you think new W is an improvement over current W? Thanks!
Just completely revert this failed rework, there is nothing intuitive or logical about a 100% melee champion who literally can't fight you at all outside of melee range being punished for engaging a fight in melee range, it is absolutely absurd and illogical for his kit, if they had problems with his q into R being an undodgeable ult then nerf that interaction and put a lockout on his Q, the roundabout way they chose to remove that interaction by destroying everything that was fun or interesting about the champion just left every former fizz main with a bad taste in their mouth We are getting the shit sandwhich all over again, this does nothing to change his disgustingly linear playstyle of long range ult-> mash all the buttoms -> is enemy dead? good? is enemy alive? you lose because now youre practically a glorified fucking canon minion with nothing to do We had a nice defined power curve of very weak early->scale with game time, now we have disgusting rubbish early-> OP midgame-> disgusting rubbish late game again, theres just nothing fun or intuitive at all with what they did to this champion that was in a fine spot before the failed assassin rework that was based on a failed premise, nearly every other failed rework was reverted or close to completely reverted and fizz should get the same treatment rather than being given another shit sandwhich and telling us to enjoy
: Fizz Change Heading to PBE
Why are all the other failed assassin reworks being reverted yet fizz is getting the shit sandwhich once again, there is nothing intuitive or logical about a completely 100% fucking melee champion having an ult that is punished for being used in melee range i just want to fucking emphasize, how does it making fucking sense that a champion that is all about getting into melee range to fight you is being fucking punished for engaging in fucking melee range, please try and explain that to me and i will except that fizz ult makes sense there is no logical argument that you can make except that you or someone in charge hates the champion The rework was garbage and should be completely reworked, i had over 3000 games of fizz since season 3 and ive barely touched fizz at all since his fucking garbage failed rework, in fact i will never play this game seriously again unless this garbage is completely reverted, i barely play once a month now There was absolutely nothing wrong with fizz pre rework, he had a defined power curve where he was super weak early and scaled super well with game time, he was one of the few scaling assassins along with kassadin, the reward of become so good at surviving laning phase with this champion was thrown in the toilet with this garbage rework where his power scaling is now pissweak early->OP midgame-> pissweak late game again there were so many different combo's or ways you could initiate a fight, different ways you could fight back in laning phase, right now there is literally only 1 fucking way to play, wait for 6, long range shark, use all ur buttons and 1 shot, if enemy is not dead you lose as you are literally a glorified fucking ward now that you used all ur front loaded damage, and this garbage change does absolutely nothing to change this playstyle get fucked
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 20
I will say this on every single post, this game will never be fun again until the scaling of roles that have the most impact early (JG and support) are nerfed back down to acceptable levels, they have been an absolute abomination since season 6 literally oppressing every other role in the game from having any fun whatsoever, you could make systemic changes to make them OP early and get heavily outscaled like they always did before you butchered their role with constant buffs for 4 seasons straight, there is no carry anymore because you think a team game requires 5 carry roles, honestly the ppl that riot hires into their retarded echo chamber is so embarrassing, bunch of pussy yes men who aren't willing to do what needs to be done to save this dying game, if it wasnt for china this game would already be considered dead
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 15
Why are all the other failed assassin reworks being reverted yet fizz is getting the shit sandwhich once again, there is nothing intuitive or logical about a completely 100% fucking melee champion having an ult that is punished for being used in melee range i just want to fucking emphasize, how does it making fucking sense that a champion that is all about getting into melee range to fight you is being fucking punished for engaging in fucking melee range, please try and explain that to me and i will except that fizz ult makes sense there is no logical argument that you can make except that you or someone in charge hates the champion
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14
Or you could fix the core problem of the game that would stop all of these problems and actially make the game fun again and thats nerfing support and jungle income, i say it every time, let them be OP early and get heavily outscaled, their window of power is earlier in the game as well as their ability to impact the map, while laners are limited in map impact early and scale their power with game time, why is that such a problem, why are junglers and supports getting the best of both worlds, it has made the roles so unbelievably oppressive and made the game in general incredibly unfun for everyone who isnt JG and support
Meddler (NA)
: We've been looking at some options, will share some details/direction once things are more conrete.
please revert him completely. you did the same for the other failed assassin reworks
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 8
This game will never be fun again until jg and support and nerfed back to the point that they are not scaling monsters, make them op early, thats fine, then heavily nerf their scaling so they are forced to get things done early or get outscaled and rely on the carry roles that they setup
Meddler (NA)
: We're looking at reducing some shields to 2.5, not all. Janna, Karma, Lulu and Ori are the main cases we're considering. No immediate plans at least for others like Shen, Morg etc though that could change.
Wait they all last more than 2.5 seconds? wait is this meant to be a nerf like 2.5seconds of shield time is actually something that you can play around lol? when i heard riot was nerfind shield during i expect 1-1.5seconds, this will do absolutely nothing.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 30
weekly reminder jungle and support is disgustingly busted and this game will never ever be fun again until they are both heavily nerfed in the mid to late game.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 25
JG is still disgustingly broken its still solo deciding lanes its still getting ganks before i hit level 3 and deciding my lane no matter how hard im winning trades its still able to duel a solo laner and win 1v1 bc of the amount of free gold/xp and it still has redsmite, which is the single strongest summoner spell in the game If redsmite was a stand alone summoner spell it would be taken on at least 3 roles every game I was told jungle was finally nerfed so i came back to the game after a 6month hiatus, im definitely not coming back Free gold and xp, unrivaled map impact, scale like a solo laner, yeh nah im not coming back until jg and support are no longer scaling roles
Meddler (NA)
: LW change is almost certainly a buff for him. Champs like Zed who haven't been LDR users but will favor the new version are some of the highest on our watch list once 8.11 goes out as a result.
zed is always the highest on riots watch list despite being one of the lowest beneficiaries of the changes compared to any number of other AD fighters/assassins with far less counterplay and far more tools available to them like talon jayce riven zed brings nothing to a team but damage yet champions with range and poke advantage/cc and shield advantage get to do even more dmg and are not considered as high priority lol. If you're going to cut zed's damage give him another form of skill expression, shield, heal, root, movespeed on double/triple q something so he's not the worst 1v1 AD champion in the game.
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Sw4de

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