: If it didn't lock her other spells would it work in your opinion?
Yes. By far. As to the moon, well it's probably the best known cycle and has significance especially with their lunar calendar.
: Phew, I had a last-minute inspiration for a new ultimate, what do you think of it? :)
Honestly, it's a little better, but not really imo. You completely lock yourself out of your other 3 spells and it's entire effectiveness is based on whether you're able to hit anyone with the initial cast. If you don't, it's 3.2 seconds minimum until you're somewhat useful again. It's a wave on a delay too so you probably just end up counter playing yourself.
Echoing (NA)
: It's not enough that the W teleports you from hella far away? Seriously, you're better off excising pretty much every part of the W that isn't the teleport. It's overloaded as hell. I've observed you're loathe to remove portions from an ability altogether, but your gap closer cannot also stun, damage, and steal attack speed all at once. She can't function after she blows all her cooldowns. Most tanks have some way of being persistently annoying - Leona has a short CD stun and keeps putting passive stacks on people every time, Braum will slowly build up to CCing you, Maokai will keep healing if you don't put him down, etc. Lenore's got nothing - her Q takes too long to come off cooldown and too long after that without her E to trigger. While movable wards sounds pretty neat and is a hefty amount of power (maybe too much), I'd suggest swapping it out for something to make her a persistent threat in combat. There's a lot of options there - if you HAVE to have the attack speed drain, I'd shift it there. Reducing cooldowns for successful applications of crowd control is an option as well. I don't even think those are the best options - I'll leave that up to you. Keep up the good work.
I've done another major updatre. What do you think of the lore as well?
: Thanks for the review! I'll review Lenore when I have a few moments to spare :) Q: That's a fair point. I'll probably up the base values a bit, but since Huilang's Q is much more spammable that Sona's and she'll have more AP than Sona would, I don't quite want to make it up to comparable values. W: Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I underestimated the range on it. E and passive: You have a point. Do you think her passive would suit her better then if her E involved her wrapping around an enemy and constricting them in some conditions? R: I did mention in my write-up at the bottom that it was most useful after winning a fight rather than during one. To make an extreme example, if Huilang was the sole survivor of a fight in which her team aced the enemy, her ult would easily allow them to pursue an objective directly after.
> [{quoted}](name=Raxistaicho,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=J5EQmfzX,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-09-12T19:50:08.316+0000) > > E and passive: You have a point. Do you think her passive would suit her better then if her E involved her wrapping around an enemy and constricting them in some conditions? Nope. In fact that's likely worse because she must now stay for extended periods in melee range. Im trying to question why she must stay in melee range at all. > > R: I did mention in my write-up at the bottom that it was most useful after winning a fight rather than during one. To make an extreme example, if Huilang was the sole survivor of a fight in which her team aced the enemy, her ult would easily allow them to pursue an objective directly after. Were it not this late into the CCOS, I would recommend replacing this entirely. As of now, however, I am unsure what to do because it is a win-more ability, pure and simple. In losing games you may as well not have an ultimate. That's the major issue. In even games it's a decent tool but in essence I believe it only helps you snowball harder.
Vorazun (OCE)
: [Champion Concept] Lenore, the Dreamweaver
**V1.6 - 14/9** **Seeker of the Lost** - Now starts on cooldown - Cooldown raised to 180 seconds from 120. **Dreamwalker** - No longer has attack speed draining aura on detonation **Psionic Mist** - No longer applies Grievous Wounds to enemies recently affected by her abilities - Now drains the attack speed of enemies recently affected by her abilities. Thanks to Raxistaicho for the feedback!
: Hey there, ccos review! :) Passive: Simple, yet extremely powerful. Vision control is an underappreciated thing. It's not the flashiest passive, but it's good. I feel as if she shouldn't be allowed to convert Vision wards with this passive though. There's a reason that Oracle Alteration is restricted until level 9, she could pop a pink ward down and have it scoot around the map with her to sweep up wards during down times. Depending on the rest of her kit, this fact alone would make her incredible in pro-level play. Q: The base damage on the on-hit is pretty high, and the max health damage is very strong too. The fact that the first hit slows would also make it pretty easy to proc on melee champs, and then Lenore can use the fear duration to back off and wait for the next opportunity to use it. W: Victory for the firstborn! :p Jokes aside, there's a lot packed into this ability. I really don't like all the sheer power this thing gives Lenore, especially because her Q indicates she won't be missing all that much from the rest of the kit. On the first hand, it's largely foolproof initiation that means the enemy has to immediately run away or they'll be taking a lot of damage. Lenore casts W, readies her Q at the last second if the stun is going to get off, the explosion procs the Q on-hit and then she hits them two more times while they're stunned (Thank you attack speed theft!) and then runs away flashing her mastery emote while they're feared and took a huge amount of damage they couldn't do a thing to prevent. The fact that it has a rather potent movespeed boost means you either need to be ranged or have a dash to get away from it in time. That said, 6 seconds is a pretty long duration and most champs can at least get close to a tower before then. On the other, this also gives Lenore a way to escape from ganks, she just needs to send the double to safety and buy herself 6 seconds to survive. Lastly, it's a tank-level engage tool on a basic ability. Very powerful. This ability is a novel idea, but I feel that there's too much power packed into it and not enough drawbacks to any one part of what it can do. E: Passive: Okay, so Nasus, Irelia, Swain, Mundo, and whatever other drain tanks you can think of auto-lose lane to her. Sucks to be them. Active: Makes both her previous skills even better, and they aren't exactly lacking to begin with. This with her W means whole teams have to run away, lest they get Q-marked, aoe stunned, aoe nearsighted, and then everyone loses 10% max health and is feared. And that's without even taking a look at her ultimate just yet. R: Dear god the evil wombo comboes she can pull if she's got a Sejuani, Malphite, Amumu, e.t.c on her team. I don't quite think you considered the sheer power she could bring to bear with this ultimate depending on the rest of her team. Even on Lenore herself this is a sort of preemptive Ekko ultimate, allowing her to trigger it before going into a potentially risky trade and popping back to her start location with all the resources she expended (her ultimate aside) refreshed. Does this thing reset summoner spell cooldowns too? Because if so that's absolutely insane. It also makes her very very good at tower diving. You had some really cool ideas with this concept, but I can't help but feel you tried to pack too many nifty things into it and wound up over designing her. Her only true weak point I can think of is that her engage IS somewhat predictable (though there's precious little you can do about it aside from head for a turret or scatter) and her base stats are somewhat unimpressive, but her damage for a tank is very good and she obviously doesn't lose out on utility despite that.
> [{quoted}](name=Raxistaicho,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=ve60AEko,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2016-09-12T20:14:28.000+0000) > > Hey there, ccos review! :) > > Passive: Simple, yet extremely powerful. Vision control is an underappreciated thing. It's not the flashiest passive, but it's good. I feel as if she shouldn't be allowed to convert Vision wards with this passive though. There's a reason that Oracle Alteration is restricted until level 9, she could pop a pink ward down and have it scoot around the map with her to sweep up wards during down times. Depending on the rest of her kit, this fact alone would make her incredible in pro-level play. You do have a fair point there - that being an issue. I think that maybe starting the ability on cooldown (so that you are still susceptible to level 2/3 ganks) could help, as well as an increase in cooldown if used on a pink ward. > > Q: The base damage on the on-hit is pretty high, and the max health damage is very strong too. The fact that the first hit slows would also make it pretty easy to proc on melee champs, and then Lenore can use the fear duration to back off and wait for the next opportunity to use it. True, but she's also meant to work in a 2v2 lane, giving the enemy ADC the ability to poke at her. If this still does look out of control, I'll look into removing the priming. > > W: Victory for the firstborn! :p > > Jokes aside, there's a lot packed into this ability. I really don't like all the sheer power this thing gives Lenore, especially because her Q indicates she won't be missing all that much from the rest of the kit. On the first hand, it's largely foolproof initiation that means the enemy has to immediately run away or they'll be taking a lot of damage. Lenore casts W, readies her Q at the last second if the stun is going to get off, the explosion procs the Q on-hit and then she hits them two more times while they're stunned (Thank you attack speed theft!) and then runs away flashing her mastery emote while they're feared and took a huge amount of damage they couldn't do a thing to prevent. The fact that it has a rather potent movespeed boost means you either need to be ranged or have a dash to get away from it in time. That said, 6 seconds is a pretty long duration and most champs can at least get close to a tower before then. On the other, this also gives Lenore a way to escape from ganks, she just needs to send the double to safety and buy herself 6 seconds to survive. > > Lastly, it's a tank-level engage tool on a basic ability. Very powerful. This ability is a novel idea, but I feel that there's too much power packed into it and not enough drawbacks to any one part of what it can do. I agree with most of the points here, but the thing is that it's also a very big commitment to make. The ability has an extremely unforgiving cooldown early, is highly telegraphed in what it does and costs a very large of mana to use. Early on, every shade counts because when it's down it's just that huge window of opportunity that the enemy can use to harass you where you can't fight back. Also if you think this was strong, go look through the changelog XD It's a husk of what it once was. > > E: Passive: Okay, so Nasus, Irelia, Swain, Mundo, and whatever other drain tanks you can think of auto-lose lane to her. Sucks to be them. This was...an attempt at making her a persistent threat while her cooldowns were up. This is likely a failure as it's far too polarising. I'll be amending this. > > Active: Makes both her previous skills even better, and they aren't exactly lacking to begin with. This with her W means whole teams have to run away, lest they get Q-marked, aoe stunned, aoe nearsighted, and then everyone loses 10% max health and is feared. And that's without even taking a look at her ultimate just yet. > > R: Dear god the evil wombo comboes she can pull if she's got a Sejuani, Malphite, Amumu, e.t.c on her team. I don't quite think you considered the sheer power she could bring to bear with this ultimate depending on the rest of her team. Even on Lenore herself this is a sort of preemptive Ekko ultimate, allowing her to trigger it before going into a potentially risky trade and popping back to her start location with all the resources she expended (her ultimate aside) refreshed. Does this thing reset summoner spell cooldowns too? Because if so that's absolutely insane. It also makes her very very good at tower diving. The tradeoff is that you MUST use this preemptively. As a result, failing to execute it properly means a very large wasted cooldown and the loss of a very valuable resource. There is counterplay to this - killing the ulted target or Lenore, or even disengaging and re-engaging once the duration has been used is a very easy way to negate the ultimate. I'll concede the point that it makes her an exceptional towerdiver - that is true. As to the restoration, it applies to everything. For example if you had Flash on a 1 second cooldown when you were ulted, your Flash will be reversed to a 1 second cooldown once the ult procs. While this might be abusive somewhat especially regarding spells like Exhaust, it's mainly used to counter assassins anyway and honestly they're enough of a problem class that anything which either messes up or has the potential to mess them up negatively should not be shunned for just that reason. > > You had some really cool ideas with this concept, but I can't help but feel you tried to pack too many nifty things into it and wound up over designing her. Her only true weak point I can think of is that her engage IS somewhat predictable (though there's precious little you can do about it aside from head for a turret or scatter) and her base stats are somewhat unimpressive, but her damage for a tank is very good and she obviously doesn't lose out on utility despite that. I would also add that she has poor sustain in lane - she has no way of preventing health damage, and has very high mana costs if going for a full rotation, which is pretty much all she will get with her high cooldowns. I do overdesign a bit - my next challenge will be Echoing's, in that I will attempt to make a champion as simple as possible. Thanks for all the tips!
ItsOrval (NA)
: So is she Nocturnes enemy?
Echoing (NA)
: It's not enough that the W teleports you from hella far away? Seriously, you're better off excising pretty much every part of the W that isn't the teleport. It's overloaded as hell. I've observed you're loathe to remove portions from an ability altogether, but your gap closer cannot also stun, damage, and steal attack speed all at once. She can't function after she blows all her cooldowns. Most tanks have some way of being persistently annoying - Leona has a short CD stun and keeps putting passive stacks on people every time, Braum will slowly build up to CCing you, Maokai will keep healing if you don't put him down, etc. Lenore's got nothing - her Q takes too long to come off cooldown and too long after that without her E to trigger. While movable wards sounds pretty neat and is a hefty amount of power (maybe too much), I'd suggest swapping it out for something to make her a persistent threat in combat. There's a lot of options there - if you HAVE to have the attack speed drain, I'd shift it there. Reducing cooldowns for successful applications of crowd control is an option as well. I don't even think those are the best options - I'll leave that up to you. Keep up the good work.
> [{quoted}](name=Echoing,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=ve60AEko,comment-id=000f00000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-09-11T19:50:25.219+0000) > > It's not enough that the W teleports you from hella far away? > > Seriously, you're better off excising pretty much every part of the W that isn't the teleport. It's overloaded as hell. I've observed you're loathe to remove portions from an ability altogether, but your gap closer cannot also stun, damage, and steal attack speed all at once. I think my loathe to remove anything is contributing in no small part to why my designs are kind of overloaded. It might be because of that that my concepts are overloaded because I'll cut the numbers but leave it on regardless. It's another habit I'll probably have to cut back on. > > She can't function after she blows all her cooldowns. Most tanks have some way of being persistently annoying - Leona has a short CD stun and keeps putting passive stacks on people every time, Braum will slowly build up to CCing you, Maokai will keep healing if you don't put him down, etc. Lenore's got nothing - her Q takes too long to come off cooldown and too long after that without her E to trigger. While movable wards sounds pretty neat and is a hefty amount of power (maybe too much), I'd suggest swapping it out for something to make her a persistent threat in combat. There's a lot of options there - if you HAVE to have the attack speed drain, I'd shift it there. Reducing cooldowns for successful applications of crowd control is an option as well. I don't even think those are the best options - I'll leave that up to you. Maybe Grievous Wounds somewhere - you mentioned that ADCs hate that stuff so it's something that could be worth expolring. I'm 50/50 on the attack speed drain at the moment - it feels like something that works, but at the same time it's also a bit polarising as well. > > Keep up the good work. Thanks!
: [Champion Concept] Huilang - the Eternal Cycle
CCOS Review Name translates roughly to Moon in chinese - I see what you did there :) Passive: It feels like a weaker version of Malzahar's passive. I'm not sure whether it really fits Huilang as a character though because she shouldn't really be getting hit in the first place (similar issue with the E), but Malzahar at least has the excuse that he has a channeled ability that he wants uninterrupted. Here, Huilang has more of a dip-in, dip-out kind of playstyle, where an actual shield itself would be far more effective than damage resistance on such a long cooldown even if it is reduced. Q: I like this idea. Minor point is that even with Focal Point the heal is Sona level. For 1 person. It feels very underwhelming. W: Mostly good again with the exception of the radius which is huge, For reference Ekko's W also has the radius of 400, and might make it too easy to encompass entire minion waves or even somewhat clustered teams within. E: This perplexes me. While it is good for any champ to have mobility, this incentivises a melee playstyle. Why? It's not even that, because you have to dash _through_ an enemy in the first place. it's an ability that belongs on a melee skirmisher, not on a battle-mage such as Huilang. It's initial range is shorter than her autoattack range too especially since it's meant to be a combat tool, not a utility one. Might want to rethink this. R: I dislike this ability, but not because of it's design. Instead, it's because of its implications, something I like to call the Guardian Angel dilemma. GA is useful, but in any fight you would have won, you would have won without dying, thus rendering the item moot in favor of some other semi defensive item like a BT or a Scimitar. This, imo exemplifies the issue. It is most effective when multiple allies have died, but a fight where multiple allies have died is most likely a fight lost already, and one where the enemy team camps on top of their bodies barring some godlike play. But those are too few and far between imo to warrant so much relative power. The theme also feels a little off in my opinion. My concept: [Lenore, the Dreamweaver](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/ve60AEko-champion-concept-lenore-the-dreamweaver)
Echoing (NA)
: You don't have more than four abilities. A+. The ultimate is fantastic. You should keep it no matter what. The rest of your kit, especially counterbalanced against your ult, shows a general lack of respect for the concept of a power budget. You're able to safely initiate a fight with your W, immediately pop Q and E, and now everyone hit is nearsighted and unable to do anything else. Meanwhile, your E is the single biggest middle finger to ADCs. As an ADC main, I don't know why people don't just build Thornmail + Morello/Executioner's Calling to counter us instead of designing kits specifically to ensure we don't have fun. Hitting 40% CDR (easy with tank items) means Q is on a 4.8 second cooldown, just spammable enough to ensure constant CC, while your E is on a 6 second cooldown with a 3 second duration. There's also a lot of power on the kit for more or less no reason. The W's trying too hard to be an upgraded Protoss Adept active - it doesn't need to be fully controllable AND deal damage AND slow the enemy's attack speed (stop hating ADCs ;_;) AND teleport you to the shade after 6 seconds. The E's vision restriction is already powerful enough, it doesn't need damage reduction on top of that. The Q applying ANY damage from Lenore means Sunfire+E procs Uncertainty in about a second, providing ultimate level CC in a second. Thematically, it's incohesive. You're calling Lenore a Dreamweaver, but you're tending more toward ethereal spoopy ghost stuff instead of dreams. Might be the terminology, might be that stupid E hellbent on countering Ashe. If you're weaving dreams, you should probably have more reality-warping effects instead of simple mind-based afflictions - and what you do have doesn't really evoke mind-based debuffs as it does ice. Recommendation: Double down on your theme, cut out as many extra effects from your kit as possible and leave only the stuff you really want to emphasize. If you can't describe the basic effect of your abilities in two, maybe three sentences, it's either overloaded, too complicated, or both. "But how does Morello's/Executioner's counter ADCs?" An ADC without lifesteal is a sad ADC about to die. Thornmail tends to offset lifesteal by itself, combining the two puts ADCs back into damaging themselves with each hit since Grievous Wounds cuts their lifesteal in half. Executioner's Calling is also 800 gold, you may as well pick it up if you have any business AAing people. If you don't, there's a reason Morello's is usually recommended on mages.
I made a ton of changes + I finished up the lore section. Could you take another look? Thanks!
: [CCOS] September CCOS Entry Time! Enter Here!
http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/ve60AEko-champion-concept-lenore-the-dreamweaver My entry this month.
: I like the abilities a lot, but she would never be played as support. She can do so much damage she would be better played in top as an AP bruiser/tank. Her W alone has near no counter play, especially if cast for being pushed under tower. 55 + 2%hp + 140 + 50%ap + 8%hp with a 1.5 second stun and a 2.5 seconds of AS reduction after which. So near 1/3 of the opponents health before they can fight back. Immediately hitting them with Q and they are now at 60% speed for the next 3 seconds Enough time to procs Q's 3rd hit deal another 6% of there max hp (60ish in this example) Meanwhile E is active dealing another 80 damage and reducing their damage by 7% (remember they are slowed, so they aren't getting out of it) all while getting 2-3 autos Not taking into account Q's wave, guessing that hits everyone else Totaling: 300 + 50 + 50 + 50 + 10 + 60 + 80 = 600 damage (out of the 1000 you and the opponent has) Only at this point can the opponents trade at full damage. So if they are at 50% hp or less the only option is to abandon the lane as they will die if they stay. So just scale the damage back a little: Q: less damage from you, 2x the damage if an ally procs W: just less damage over all, if you are getting a gank on them they will be dead twice over before they get out of the stun E: Less damage reduction, there is no counterplay to not having 15% of your damage. thats the difference between a kill and no kill on Zed R: I like a lot, and very good requirement of both still alive But thats my two bits, that at the moment she seems like a bruiser Kayle than a tank/support
Thanks for taking a look! Your numbers are correct but it should be kept in mind that resistances haven't been accounted for at all in this case - meaning that you're only really deaing ~2/3rds of that damage at best in the first place. There's also the matter that you're blowing ~50% of your mana (since your situation is at level 5) being 60+100+80 = 240 mana, when your pool is 340 (+4*40) = 500. That makes this a very hard combo to pull off and actually kill your opponent with unless you've already gone back for something like a Sheen or other mana item. I do suppose that there is a very high chance of killing someone if your jungler ganks though. The concept has been updated a bit (mainly number nerfs) so that situation should be less likely unless Lenore decisively pulls ahead early on.
: Okay, let's see. **Kit** I had a bit of issue with the Innate, *By Divine Will*, primarily. Especially on a Mage / Marksman. While I like the idea, there are some very infuriating mechanics that aren't fun for enemies to deal with. Rei's relative immunity while near Kami's location creates a situation that is common with Assassins (who typically jump you and burst you with little ability to counter play), but does so for a Champion very much not designed to be an Assassin. Namely, while Kami is near Rei, enemies are forced to have to focus on Kami, leaving Rei free to do her thing. While the other bonuses for the pair up are not overwhelming, interactions with the rest of her kit aren't very fun to lane against, and there is some immense potential to become unstoppable simply because of Rei and Kami's sheer number of options, and the lack of common enemies in their preferred lanes that have any chance of circumventing the duo's Abilities. The worst offender on this kit in my opinion is *Divine Artifact - Windrunner*. This one self combos effortlessly given standard laning conditions, and though counter play is possible, it's very much limited in terms of what is viable, forcing specific play styles to play around it. Couple this with the utilization of the Energy resource, and Rei can't be out sustained easily, while Kami remains relatively safe. The duration of the shackle is also quite lengthy at all ranks beyond the first couple of levels given the bonus Rei gets for it. While there are some drawbacks because of the unique function in the Innate, and the combo requirements with her other Abilities, it is incredibly potent, even when made as a one point wonder. The interactions of power on other sections of the kit also make *Divine Artifact - Windrunner* somewhat oppressive and polarizing, but without many drawbacks for the impressive lane control it provides. I couldn't really compare everything else in the Abilities, because all of the stuff she can do in tandem with *By Divine Will* and *Divine Artifact - Windrunner* really just makes her incredibly strong alone, not to mention *Divine Form* unlocks new Abilities that can easily be woven into the Abilites *Mortal Form* provides, and vice versa. Just overall too strong and polarizing as a whole, primarily because *Divine Artifact - Windrunner* exists in its form. **Lore** One of the stand outs to me was that Rei's lore was well devised and written. That said, it was a tad TOO long for my taste; I lost interest before I even reached the line break. Quite too long actually; quality beats quantity always, and though I do "Echo" Echoing's sentiments on short single paragraph things, I also agree with him that a good three or four max will generally suffice. Also, her shortened lore was very short as a contrast. I personally wanted more there, and I feel some of the points I did not award there were the difference maker between Xi'feng and Rei winning the contest. Personally? One or two paragraphs for short lore (which also mostly fits with Riot's current standards), and three to six for extended lore is good enough. Sometimes the best things that contribute the most in a concept are the things that aren't there. Still, a stellar effort, but I feel that the length of the lore kind of hurt it in the long run. **Originality** Bar some minor **Quinn**, **Kindred**, and **Kled** similarities in the "Partner Duo" archetypes, Rei manages to carve her own niche. Her Abilities, though abused easily, are nonetheless ambitious and original enough to get you a nice score here. Good job. **Effort** Good effort all around, and the content shows it. Some more focus should be put into the Ability set, because that is one of more important parts of a Champion, and makes or breaks them; I allot a lot of weight to that category personally. **Overall Observations** The Ability set is quite unique, and I do like it for what it tries to do. However, Echoing's feedback on the Abilities is shared by myself as well. To quote him... >"...the kit is abusive. She'd troll both top and bot lanes effectively, and has an entire second set of skills to fall back on if the first half runs out or isn't sufficient. I think that by trying to make your champions so overly unique, you're overloading them with way too many mechanics that make them both overwhelmingly powerful and complicated..." For some consideration, and as an example of some design oversight in your Ability construction, 45% Cooldown Reduction with a max rank *Divine Artifact - Windrunner* grants a 5.5 second cooldown for a 3 second shackle that deals 140 (+ 30% AP) damage and grants Rei a bonus of 80% to her Attack Speed for 3 seconds. When Kami is nearby, Rei is untouchable effectively, and with even marginal itemization, will be abusive and lethal with little effort, a sharp contrast to most Mages and Marksman who need two or three items to reach a sharp spike in their power. While this might be an edge case, it can happen, and when it does, any chance of proper counter play vanishes. To add insult to injury, this Ability scales on easily stacked Ability Power, is versatile enough to allow Attack Damage builds as well, and makes proper Hybrid builds disgusting. When designing Abilities, factor in current game conditions as of latest patches, and account for Items, other Champions, other mechanics, and the design of Summoner's Rift and the generally accepted laning compositions within. Overall, it is nice in most other areas, but the Abilities did hurt your score quite a bit, and contributed towards the second place finish. I hope this all helps.
I think there is a common misconception that runs through here - in that you label Rei as performing part of the kit. In actual truth Rei serves only for the passive - a mechanic, as it were, to be worked and carried around. Kami actually performs the entire kit. I try to do the lore the way it's set up currently - a short 1 paragraph bio for the client entry, with something more like a short story for extended reading. I guess it all depends on personal preference? Looking forward to the next CCOS :)
Echoing (NA)
: This is literally one of the worst possible arguments. The potential for misuse does not inhibit a champion's power. See: Tahm Kench, Bard, Kindred, Ryze. Lower ELO's inability to capitalize consistently and effectively on certain mechanics is not a proper argument - general balance leans toward high-level play. If you're going to give criticism, give actual criticism instead of this useless dreck about how low ELO players make stupid mistakes.
I was wondering if I could have your thoughts on this concept :)
: Interesting concept to say the least. I do have a few concerns though if she was ever made playable. I'll try to keep it short and sweet....which probably won't happen. I tend to ramble. :| First things first. She's supposed to be a tank/support but her abilities make her out to be more of a Tank/Mage. The only real support abilities I see are her Passive and Ultimate. The others are meant to just deal damage and hamper the enemy. Her kit makes it so all you need to do is build Health and AP and just faceroll your enemies. They can't get near you because of your E and Q, and if they do all you need to do is use your Ult and if they don't kill you quick enough...BOOM back to where you were. Then with the W if you think you need a way out just set that up before a fight, and then you're out after dealing lots of damage, or even setting yourself up with the W->E->Q and that just hurts. Stunned, taking damage over time, 10% more if hit by the shade...and at max rank you're not even slowed while using your W anymore so all hampers on it are gone now. So overall this champion, to me, gives off a tanky mage vibe rather than a Tank/Support. The W itself and the Ultimate is what concerns me most. The W first is a mixture of Ekkos Ult, Malphites Ult, Leblancs W, and an AoE stun that is stronger than any other normal ability stun except for Twisted Fates cards at max level and Brands Q once set up to stun, but the difference being it's an AoE where theirs are single effect. The only other stuns which lasts for as long or longer are only ultimates. So this thing has damage stronger than Leblancs W, almost on par with the damage from Ekko's and Malph's ultimates (theirs being just a hair stronger if both build AP), and has an AoE stun that is on par with other ultimates that stun. There is but one difference, and that is you must wait for the time to run out (6 seconds) before it activates. So you must plan where to place it when that time comes, but I still don't think it makes up for what you gain since it wouldn't be that hard to set up especially since it has increased movement speed, so it's not like it won't be able to move fast. You mentioned 4s to position it to someone, but the Shade lasts for 6s, you even stated that. So you have 6s to position. Plenty of time, and even if it was shorter you'd just need to predict movement, much like you do when casting any sort of times ability or even slow moving skillshot. So personally, this ability is extremely strong and needs to be looked at. My suggestion would be to remove the damage and blink all together and use it much like your passive. A moveable vision ability. Except keep the passing through enemies, but instead of take extra 10% damage maybe make it a slow to movement and attack speed, or that it reduces their resistances. Remember, you're going for a Tank/Support. While the 10% more damage is nice to help your ADC's and APC's it also helps you just faceroll them yourself with your own damage as is while taking their hits. In the end, your choice, but personally that damage and the utility behind the shade is really strong for one ability, especially a Tank/Support. And about your ult...one thing stands out about this. That is "You better kill us quick enough because if you can't we will just forget all that damage done and it won't matter. Haha!" It's pretty much Zileans ult, except you're not supposed to die. Unless I am misreading the "is restored" part and it doesn't mean health, but I do believe it meant health, cooldowns, etc. If I'm wrong then I'm sorry. It does say "status" as well so does that include any slow, stun, or silence they had at the time as well? Maybe a bit of clarification. Cause I see this ult being so dumb, especially when paired on tanks who just soak damage, deal damage, and don't give no shits. Just gotta cast it on them, they wail on an enemy, and since the enemy can't out damage them due to their tankiness whatever damage IS done just goes away if they aren't fast enough. :| --- Conclusion, definitely interesting, but personally think a few areas are still quite strong. So far I see a Tank/Mage rather than a Tank/Support due to the damage and potential to just build Health and AP (due to Health and AP scaling) and then just roll up and face tank everyone because your E and Q make it hard for people to fight you close quarters. Not to mention the ult built into that. You can just use your W to blink into the middle of a team fight, stun the team and deal large amounts of damage, activate your E which causes more damage over time and soak up all damage (due to taking less and being tanky) and them even attacking slower as well while you attack faster dealing more damage with your Q, nearsighting them on top of all the other CC and damage you're doing...So you see the issue. She's definitely more of a Tank/Mage than a Support, and she will be played that way because of all that her kit does. So, definitely work on fine tuning it to make her more of a Tank/Support because as of right now she's an AP Juggernaught. Someone I would hate to ever see in queue due to the variety of her CC, tankiness, debuffs, damage, vision, and ability to restore health if you're not fast enough to kill her. Still, I must say I am quite blown away by the concept as it gets my own creative juices flowing even more. So great job and keep up the good work! These were just my own personal thoughts on the matter. No need to take them to heart if you don't wish to.
> [{quoted}](name=Nikushimi Zero,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=ve60AEko,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2016-09-03T14:54:12.538+0000) > > Interesting concept to say the least. Thank you very much! > My suggestion would be to remove the damage and blink all together and use it much like your passive. A moveable vision ability. Except keep the passing through enemies, but instead of take extra 10% damage maybe make it a slow to movement and attack speed, or that it reduces their resistances. Remember, you're going for a Tank/Support. While the 10% more damage is nice to help your ADC's and APC's it also helps you just faceroll them yourself with your own damage as is while taking their hits. My main issue with that is that they overlap a lot now and are basically the same ability as a result. I'll probably shift the AS slow from the E to here as I rebalance because I agree that the damage increase is a bit overwhelming as-is. I think that I'll shift up the bases (which are going down regardless) such that some damage happens when she passes the shade through you rather than just at the end, along with the base stun going down as well to about 1.5 seconds. The reasoning I used to have for this was that it was like Ekko W in that it was extremely telegraphed meaning that it could have a larger payoff as a result, but maybe I miscalculated there. I will be keeping the mobility though, because I feel that melee without gapcloser is incredibly underwhelming and can only be decent if they are just incredibly overtuned because it has to be kept in mind that they could potentially not get to a target (see: every juggernaut ever). As a result I feel that as long as it can be assumed that a melee champion has a reasonable chance of engaging on a ranged one, it makes it far more easy to account for their power. > > In the end, your choice, but personally that damage and the utility behind the shade is really strong for one ability, especially a Tank/Support. > > And about your ult...one thing stands out about this. That is "You better kill us quick enough because if you can't we will just forget all that damage done and it won't matter. Haha!" > > It's pretty much Zileans ult, except you're not supposed to die. Unless I am misreading the "is restored" part and it doesn't mean health, but I do believe it meant health, cooldowns, etc. If I'm wrong then I'm sorry. It does say "status" as well so does that include any slow, stun, or silence they had at the time as well? Maybe a bit of clarification. Cause I see this ult being so dumb, especially when paired on tanks who just soak damage, deal damage, and don't give no shits. Just gotta cast it on them, they wail on an enemy, and since the enemy can't out damage them due to their tankiness whatever damage IS done just goes away if they aren't fast enough. :| Yep, everything is restored to the way it was. That means if you were stunned when the memory was taken, you will be stunned when it pops back out. However, the same goes for offensive buffs as well. I would think that she would work exceptionally well with a Zilean because he would ult then you would, thus ensuring that even if you die, the memory will still continue to tick down, and once you do, you will have a full-duration Zilean ult again. There might be some counterplay issues there, but it also requires quite a strong commitment to this tactic as well and would likely be used in conjunction with a hypercarry like Vayne or Kog. As to normal gameplay it's probably best to work around it's insane cooldown by trying to bait it out, or disengage from the fight, then re-engage once the buff has worn off. > > --- > > Conclusion, definitely interesting, but personally think a few areas are still quite strong. So far I see a Tank/Mage rather than a Tank/Support due to the damage and potential to just build Health and AP (due to Health and AP scaling) and then just roll up and face tank everyone because your E and Q make it hard for people to fight you close quarters. Not to mention the ult built into that. You can just use your W to blink into the middle of a team fight, stun the team and deal large amounts of damage, activate your E which causes more damage over time and soak up all damage (due to taking less and being tanky) and them even attacking slower as well while you attack faster dealing more damage with your Q, nearsighting them on top of all the other CC and damage you're doing...So you see the issue. She's definitely more of a Tank/Mage than a Support, and she will be played that way because of all that her kit does. > > So, definitely work on fine tuning it to make her more of a Tank/Support because as of right now she's an AP Juggernaught. Someone I would hate to ever see in queue due to the variety of her CC, tankiness, debuffs, damage, vision, and ability to restore health if you're not fast enough to kill her. Thanks! I'll be working on redistributing and balancing it out! > > Still, I must say I am quite blown away by the concept as it gets my own creative juices flowing even more. So great job and keep up the good work! These were just my own personal thoughts on the matter. No need to take them to heart if you don't wish to. Can't wait for your next concept! Thanks for the review!
: I love this champion ability concept! And as a fellow MTG player, I want to say thank you for Choosing Elspeth as your splash... I have some ideas and suggestions I would really like to discuss with you because theory crafting is something I really love! My first noticeable issue is the difference between her ability concepts and the fact that you want her to be a tank... They just don't mesh well unfortunately. The main reason is that for her to be a tank and pull off her abilities they have to do so at the cost of what could be a significant amount of really cool support themes available in the abilities you have presented. Please thoroughly read everything and then maybe we can get a good discussion going as to what you are going for versus the abilities you have as they stand and how we as a community can help this champion concept evolve.  Passive- Yes please!! The ability to move wards around is much needed in this game, and this would instantly secure this champions role in higher ELO’s. I also really enjoy the fact that seekers gain the powers of whatever ward they were crafted from, this seems really fun! For the sake of simplicity and clarity I have listed a possible change below. Suggestion: When you change a ward to a seeker, instantly pick it up. Then use whatever key to place your new seeker. Also I love the ideas of Seekers moving, but is 2000 maybe too big of a range? What's the range on Kalista's wraith? Q: So this modifies your next basic attack into an AOE? Question 1 does this reset the attack timer like Leona, Nasus, etc.? If the answer is yes very cool! Secondly does an ability which requires the support (and only the support) to AA really belong on a support? This one is a personal question I think so I will let you answer it. My suggestions are below. Suggestions: 1- Less initial bonus damage, but apply the blind instantly with a minor slow, as you AA build more of a slow until you root at max stacks (think Soraka E- Equinox) 2- Keep the ability the same but make it so only Q and W can proc it. 3- Keep the damage, instantly blind and allow only another Q or W to proc a root. (I am a personal fan of this option because its only 2 steps and the first one is scary enough because you have a support that can blind, which makes plays huge) W- A moving shade of your character that doesn’t attack, but you can teleport to and moves through enemy units dealing damage? So here it seems like we have combined Yorick’s Ult with Kennen’s lightning ball, and then ended it with Ekko’s ult. This is super complicated sounding and is the main reason I see you wanting this character as a tank. Suggestion: You’ve probably thought of this, but what if you have Lenore unable to move while this ability is active, we keep the damage on passing through a unit and apply a minor slow 15%ish? Then at the end of the duration, (I would think this ability is kinda like a channel), the shade disappears. Re-cast during the duration to teleport to the shade and proc Dark Visions. E- So is this move a toggle like Karthus’s E- Defile? If so, then it’s a really cool idea to give a support a fun AOE ability. Suggestions on making it a little more supporty below. Suggestion: Can we make this ability also fly around your Dreamwalker? And if so, I would suggest putting your heavier slow here, along with the attack speed reduction when you auto a target. This would give more opportunities to your Deamwalker to add a slow, plus set you up to proc Q and steal attack speed all at the same time. R- This ability is really interesting, like Zilean’s Q but only works if the ally is still alive. I can see this being huge for things like setting up a Baron or Dragon fight, and then making sure that if the enemy team arrives one of you is essentially at full health and ready to kill some fools. No new suggestions for this one. Best regards, and I hope you and I can have many discussions in the future, this concept as a scouting champion who disables enemy champions vision for small windows of super powered play sounds amazing, and I think my suggestions all keep her fairly well in the tank roll... could be wrong on that of course. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
> [{quoted}](name=Rayde Turnas,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=ve60AEko,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2016-09-03T05:00:31.848+0000) > > I love this champion ability concept! And as a fellow MTG player, I want to say thank you for Choosing Elspeth as your splash... I have some ideas and suggestions I would really like to discuss with you because theory crafting is something I really love! > > > Suggestion: When you change a ward to a seeker, instantly pick it up. Then use whatever key to place your new seeker. Also I love the ideas of Seekers moving, but is 2000 maybe too big of a range? What's the range on Kalista's wraith? it actually has up to 5k range (Source: LoL Wiki) which is a ton. The problem with picking it up is that you need an empty inventory slot to do it - meaning that late game, or if you have a lot of consumables makes it very unwieldy. Starting it up from the target location means that this problem can be avoided. > > Q: So this modifies your next basic attack into an AOE? Question 1 does this reset the attack timer like Leona, Nasus, etc.? If the answer is yes very cool! Secondly does an ability which requires the support (and only the support) to AA really belong on a support? This one is a personal question I think so I will let you answer it. My suggestions are below. Yes it's an autoattack reset, which I'll clarify. The main reason it requires autoattacking is so that you have to focus on a certain target, and not just smack everyone around you with it. I am actually modifying the ability so that the blind is moved to E, and the stacking is leading up to a fear instead of the blind it currently is. > > W- A moving shade of your character that doesn’t attack, but you can teleport to and moves through enemy units dealing damage? So here it seems like we have combined Yorick’s Ult with Kennen’s lightning ball, and then ended it with Ekko’s ult. This is super complicated sounding and is the main reason I see you wanting this character as a tank. > > Suggestion: You’ve probably thought of this, but what if you have Lenore unable to move while this ability is active, we keep the damage on passing through a > unit and apply a minor slow 15%ish? Then at the end of the duration, (I would think this ability is kinda like a channel), the shade disappears. Re-cast during the duration to teleport to the shade and proc Dark Visions. There's been a lot of suggestion regarding the shade leaving Lenore unable to move, but that's one thing that I'm just not ready to budge on. I feel that it removes far too much of the potential juke and outplaying which comes with an ability like this. > > E- So is this move a toggle like Karthus’s E- Defile? If so, then it’s a really cool idea to give a support a fun AOE ability. Suggestions on making it a little more supporty below. > > Suggestion: Can we make this ability also fly around your Dreamwalker? And if so, I would suggest putting your heavier slow here, along with the attack speed reduction when you auto a target. This would give more opportunities to your Deamwalker to add a slow, plus set you up to proc Q and steal attack speed all at the same time. I'm actually intending to take this in a different direction, where the nearsight is moved to this ability, but with a shorter duration instead so that it isn't so oppressive. > > R- This ability is really interesting, like Zilean’s Q but only works if the ally is still alive. I can see this being huge for things like setting up a Baron or Dragon fight, and then making sure that if the enemy team arrives one of you is essentially at full health and ready to kill some fools. No new suggestions for this one. > > > Best regards, and I hope you and I can have many discussions in the future, this concept as a scouting champion who disables enemy champions vision for small windows of super powered play sounds amazing, and I think my suggestions all keep her fairly well in the tank roll... could be wrong on that of course. Thanks for all the feedback!
: so a better ekko ult?
Not exactly. With Ekko you activate it reactively, at an opportune moment. It's very hard to waste. With Lenore it's very different as you must act proactively instead, and be able to predict the battlefield condition in 4 seconds. It's much easier to poorly use or misuse Stolen Memory compared to Chronobreak.
: Quick question, can ult restore summoners if in the memory they were unused but in the 4 seconds were used?
Yep. Stolen Memory's restoration resets everything to the status in which the memory was taken.
: isn't that Elspeth? plagiarism...
How is it plagiarism? I haven't taken someone else's work and claimed that it's mine and I've sourced and linked back to the original image. In any case the lecture is supposed to give a general idea of what they should look like, not be a 100% accurate representation.
InTheory (EUW)
: ***
Basically Lenore sends out a ghost she can control. The ghost moves faster and has the same vision range. If the ghost passes through an enemy they take extra damage for a short time. When the ghost's duration runs out, Lenore teleports to the ghost's location, dealing damage and stunning enemy units nearby. Lenore can cancel the ghst by recasting W.
: "Dark Visions can also be triggered by the detonation of Dreamwalker’s Shade. " What does this mean? Does it mean the on-hit can be triggered by the explosion, or does the explosion automatically trigger the mark consumption? It would be redundant to say "the explosion places another mark" since the Q description doesn't say she has to basic attack to place more marks.
It should read that the shade detonation will trigger the AoE wave effect. I'll clarify.
Leonerdo (NA)
: Some people have been saying this is overpowered, particularly the Q and W. It's worse than that though, it's overloaded. As is, no matter what the numbers are tuned to, this is only gonna be playable by pros; no one else will be able to grasp the complexity. The micro-control vision game on her passive is enough to ensure that. Then you have like 3+ effects on all of her basic abilities, including another micro-control ability that requires you to fully maneuver two characters. The ult is weird, but I guess it's fine. Basically a Zilean ult, but with more counter-play (kill the target before the proc). Slim it down. Give her a more direct purpose on each ability (i.e. when should she use it, what should it accomplish, how can it fail). And make it playable by people without 1000 APM. And don't get me wrong, I like complex champions, but this is like double Azir-level complexity.
I'll probably try and start slimming it down a bit, particularly with the W and E effects. I'll probably start with the toning down of the damage reduction. I would say that there is a pretty straightforward use for each ability though. W is your scout/engage, Q to followup, and E is used once you're in the middle of the enemy team. Thanks for taking a look!
: I will say that I'm very impressed with her passive. Its a cool, unique ability that has clear uses and weaknesses. Other than that, this is broken as hell. 80% ap ratio nuke that is likely to hit due to the movespeed increase, 2 second stun, and triggers her q which will slow them for 40% for an additional second after the stun is over, chunk them for % max health damage, make them nearsighted, and all while under a 10% damage increase!? And if they try to fight back then just E them and they get their damage gutted, doubly so if they are auto attack based. I'd say remove the ap ratio on the w and have it scale only with bonus health, it isn't fair for the ability to both nuke someone and then stun them for 2 seconds on top of that.
Thanks for taking a look! It does look a bit high but it is also possible to lure the shade into a place where your teammates are hiding then just collapsing on her. As to the shade damage, the AP ratio was there to make the AP that sometimes comes with tank/support items a little more useful. I'll probably try reducing it first, before removing it altogether.
: Thematically it might make more sense if her W rooted her. It would add a bit more balance while also keeping the "out-of-body" experience.
I'm not sure about the rooting because you lose a lot of the potential fake out/juke gameplay you could get out of it. It does look a little strong though, so maybe a slow while the shade is at early levels.
: Really love this concept. just remember since you posted it on the forums it's not longer your property or concept and riot isn't entitled to give credit if they use this idea :p
Don't worry, I know :) I would be really happy if any of my ideas actually made it into the game.
: For some reason I think what she looks like is a bit generic. Why not make her look fragile with wispy clothes? I think that would match the theme of a dreamweaver.
Good splashes are hard to find. I work with what I can look up on the internet :D
: Make it cost the same as Soraka's old W lol.
That's definitely one way of looking at it, but she already has a spell that can cost over 100 mana. Making another one do that might just force you to build mana.
Nymzo (NA)
: I don't know if you did that on purpose or not but the w is literally a carbon copy of the ability of the Adept in Starcraft 2 (the 10% extra dmg is in the campaign).
Nice catch! I actually did base that ability around the Adept because I thought it was both a cool unit, as well as something that I thought could be brought to a game like this.
MrryZ (NA)
: Seems good, you clearly put a lot of effort and thought into this. The W and E seem somewhat overpowered though.
Thanks! I tried to balance the W around costing a ton of mana and being extremely telegraphed - so that it's allowed to have that much power at all. The E I'll likely look into.
Rioter Comments
: [CCOS] August CCOS Results Here!
Always...so...close... Congratulations to Raxistaicho for an excellent concept :) I'd also like to see the BigBen's feedback as well!
Echoing (NA)
: I'm going to guess the late announcement is because BigBen has some RL stuff he's got to deal with. In any case, if the pattern holds, anyone interested should probably start getting ready for the next contest.
I actually have an innovative design for a support tank with (surprise!) strong micro potential which is almost complete. Your challenge to try and make a simple as possible champion for me is surprisingly more difficult than making one of my more complex ones.
: [Champion Concept] Kilbracht, the Greatsword
Hi. Passive: This is generally fine, but there is a very large problem which I think has not been addressed here. The problem I'm trying to address here is how your attack speed stops you from CSing properly, especially under tower. Furthermore, its crippling because you will have very little bonus health early on maening that you are unable to compensate with enough damage to outweigh your penalty. The combination of both being a passive laner while simultaneously being unable to farm would render the champion almost unplayable as a result. Q: Nothing much except that you should normalise the stun to either 0.5 or 0.75 seconds. It's a little jarring to see it just switch suddenly. Also this is a dash, which scales off your health which slows,, which can stun, and deals damage based on their health. This is a lot for an ability to do, and it has 700 range! J4's EQ is 800 and he gives up two abilities to do it. I would recommend cutting down on excess elements, and nerfing the range because it does too much W: I'd prefer this get a movement speed slow instead because this is just reducing your damage further for...not a lot. There isn't a reason for this to be turned off in a fight because you are encouraged to build tank and your ult passive makes your CDs ludicrously low and scales off AS. In almost all dueling cases the damage reduction is far more impactful than the little damage you lose. E: This feels like another overloaded ability. Let's just go through all the factors. It's a dash, AA empowerment, AoE attack, that also happens to cut their healing and acts as an execute. You see how many things that does? It's kinda ridiculous to be honest because you already have mobility on the kit. (Also an AA reset on a greatsword champion does not sit well thematically, at least with me) R: Honestly given how much power is in the rest of the kit yoou'd be perfectly fine with just the passive. But I digress. To get to the point: I don't like it. Mainly because it's a steroid ultimate. And those are pretty boring because you activate it and it does stuff which the enemy can't do a thing about. Singed for example, is a big offender of this. Riven is slightly better because you can play around her Shockwave. JAx is similar tho a bit closer to Singeed that Riven in this case. I mean there is so much you could have done with this ability, like a Great Cleave where you smack the ground and a wall emerges in a line from your sword. It'd synergise with your Q as well. Just...anything but a steroid ultimate because they don't feel that good to use, your opponent feels bad because they can't outplay you, and it generallly leads to a fairly binary champion. My concept: [Rei, the Will of the Divine](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/ANI2Ahza-champion-concept-rei-the-will-of-the-divine)
: My problem with that is that it would literally turn her W into Mundo's XD
Hm..you do have a point there. The thing is that it might have far too much synergy with BC as a result which could make it even more problematic if Xifeng ever gets up to you. It might sound like a bit of a knockoff, but slow resistance? Also I read through your spork. It was very amusing :)
: I'm actually planning to change Xifeng's W's effect to do something else besides just doing damage while active now that her ult heals her. Do you have any good ideas?
I was thinking that maybe tenacity would work well, given how you more likely need a way to stick to people you reach over doing more damage
Echoing (NA)
: It's worth 10 points, as detailed under scoring. Half-assed efforts have seen contestants get less than 10 points, so be thorough in your reviews.
So we are back to the old system, right? As in do 1 review, but get up to 10 points for it , rather than 5 points a review regardless?
: > [{quoted}](name=Vorazun,realm=OCE,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=BEzY1hAi,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-08-09T00:38:14.898+0000) > > Hi! I'm dropping by for a review :D > > Brief note: Xifeng transliterates out to West Wind in Chinese. I'm not sure what kind of allegory you're trying to make here beyond some kind of second wind? I suspect that wasn't my original intent. I have a thing for meaningful names, so I probably DID choose it for a reason, but I can't recall. > Passive: It's quite effective for what it does, being able to make a mark for someone who wants to stick around for extended fights (particularly involving multiple people) and is gated carefully enough by limiting itself to self shielding and healing. The only thing I would suggest would be that the increases scale exponentially, similar to a reverse Warlord's Bloodlust so that you're more encouraged to stay in extended combat Ah, fair point. > W: This ability can only be casted with spirit and will last only as long as the spirit does right? That's my main query on this ability. Yes. > R: Honestly it feels a bit underwhelming to me. Yes it's a shield that is very powerful in the right situations, but it also works against the W, in that you want to be low to make the best use of the shield, but you also get constant (and increased) healing from it. It somewhat solidifies her as a juggernaut who works best at low health, and is capable of thriving at that level, but it also brings up the concern to me that similar could be performed by another juggernaut who doesn't have to be at such a threshold to be equally capable. Oh, one important thing to note about Xifeng's ult that I forgot to mention is that her Spirit gain is calculated only on-cast and doesn't update as her health increases. Would that improve it? > Overall, I'm on the fence. It's an interesting design, but I feel that Xifeng lacks both counterplay and outplay potential. While it can be argued that there is counterplay to the Q and E (don't let her land consecutive strikes and stay out of range respectively) I feel it's more of an inherent flaw with the Juggernaut class (which I won't get into here) as well as the flaws that show up when taking into account gapcloser-less melee, mainly that they must be compensated for the prospect that they _won't_ be able to get into melee in the first place resulting in overtuning as a result. Because of this, I'm not too much of a fan because you're either overwhelming when they have to fight you in such conditions, but largely fall flat as a result. Fair point. Do you think I'd be better off with Xifeng's old E? > Also, just to pique my curiosity: Do you read das_sporking? I post there, why do you ask?
> [{quoted}](name=Raxistaicho,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=BEzY1hAi,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-08-09T01:26:56.746+0000) > > I suspect that wasn't my original intent. I have a thing for meaningful names, so I probably DID choose it for a reason, but I can't recall. > > Ah, fair point. > > Yes. > > Oh, one important thing to note about Xifeng's ult that I forgot to mention is that her Spirit gain is calculated only on-cast and doesn't update as her health increases. Would that improve it? That would help, yes. > > Fair point. Do you think I'd be better off with Xifeng's old E? It really depends what you want to do with her. The dash would make her more of a diver/vanguard, while her current design is juggernaut. It's more of my current gripes with the system than anything else. > > I post there, why do you ask? I was just re-reading through Mervin sporking Twilight and I saw your username, wondering if it was the same person XD
: [Champion Concept] Xifeng - the Unbreaking
Hi! I'm dropping by for a review :D Brief note: Xifeng transliterates out to West Wind in Chinese. I'm not sure what kind of allegory you're trying to make here beyond some kind of second wind? Passive: It's quite effective for what it does, being able to make a mark for someone who wants to stick around for extended fights (particularly involving multiple people) and is gated carefully enough by limiting itself to self shielding and healing. The only thing I would suggest would be that the increases scale exponentially, similar to a reverse Warlord's Bloodlust so that you're more encouraged to stay in extended combat Q: It's a good idea that encourages a single target focus, but it feels like it deviates somewhat from the general feel of the rest of the concept, which has veritable AoE. Nonetheless, it's effective at what it does (though I will admit that the best-case scenario is a _very_ scary prospect). The main suggestion I would leave here would be to flatten out the cost to 40 overall because it's far too cheap early to keep in mind. W: This ability can only be casted with spirit and will last only as long as the spirit does right? That's my main query on this ability. R: Honestly it feels a bit underwhelming to me. Yes it's a shield that is very powerful in the right situations, but it also works against the W, in that you want to be low to make the best use of the shield, but you also get constant (and increased) healing from it. It somewhat solidifies her as a juggernaut who works best at low health, and is capable of thriving at that level, but it also brings up the concern to me that similar could be performed by another juggernaut who doesn't have to be at such a threshold to be equally capable. Overall, I'm on the fence. It's an interesting design, but I feel that Xifeng lacks both counterplay and outplay potential. While it can be argued that there is counterplay to the Q and E (don't let her land consecutive strikes and stay out of range respectively) I feel it's more of an inherent flaw with the Juggernaut class (which I won't get into here) as well as the flaws that show up when taking into account gapcloser-less melee, mainly that they must be compensated for the prospect that they _won't_ be able to get into melee in the first place resulting in overtuning as a result. Because of this, I'm not too much of a fan because you're either overwhelming when they have to fight you in such conditions, but largely fall flat as a result. Also, just to pique my curiosity: Do you read das_sporking?
: Hey there, review time! Passive - If I understand this correctly, you control Kami and have to manage Rei's location. I kinda get the mental image of her being like a rag doll :p Strange though, considering the champion is called Rei, not Kami. The passive itself feels like an artificial stop on Kami being able to function, but considering how ridiculously long the connection range is, the only time I can picture Rei being left behind is in Kami needs to suddenly get somewhere quickly and can't return to pick her up, and then has to AGAIN go somewhere else before he can grab her. It mostly just offers a headache for Rei's player to manage and doesn't really offer the enemy team much in the way of gameplay options since it's more up to Rei mismanaging her location than her enemy abusing her. Q - I don't really like this effect, it reminds me of Odin's ultimate from Smite, which is strongly derided because it forces enemies to play by his rules rather than theirs. Unlike Jarvan's ultimate you can't even dash out of it. It being a skillshot is a bit better, and it doesn't do much in the way of damage by itself. W - Wow. The sheer damage this gives Kami is insane, as not only does it wholly convert Kami's damage to magic (this is a problem because anti-attack itemization is all armor-based for understandable reasons), it also gives her strong true damage. Late game she's going to be shredding absolutely everyone with just her attacks, her the W active just makes it stronger. E - Nothing too fancy. It's a situational 3-hit execute and fear. Nice to see more champs having a fear. I kinda dislike the self-active since it essentially removes Rei as a hindrance to Kami and he doesn't really need the E to kill people thanks to his W. Moving onto the next set, I'm going to be more brief, but my biggest issue with Kami's two skillsets is that they somewhat encourage different builds. Kami's artifact set is largely ranged combat (except for the E, if I read it right) with basic attacks, but Kami's divine form skillset are mostly close-range bruiser abilities. I would picture people building attack speed, on-hit, and some AP for the first, and maxing cdr and durability items to abuse the W active for the second. In general, Kami's a neat design, but I feel if you wanted to capture the feel of a divine beast you could have just had the ultimate briefly empower him, more like what Shyvana's ultimate does. Kami as-is is somewhat overdesigned. If I haven't turned you off after my less than glowing review of Rei/Kami, could you please take some time to review Xifeng? :) http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/BEzY1hAi-champion-concept-xifeng-the-unbreaking Thanks!
> [{quoted}](name=Raxistaicho,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=ANI2Ahza,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-08-08T02:15:21.548+0000) > > Hey there, review time! > > Passive - If I understand this correctly, you control Kami and have to manage Rei's location. I kinda get the mental image of her being like a rag doll :p Strange though, considering the champion is called Rei, not Kami. This I'm very aware of. However, I didn't want to go straight up and call it Nami because of all the 'omg it's too similar to Nami' complaints whihc would invariably clog up the comments section. > > The passive itself feels like an artificial stop on Kami being able to function, but considering how ridiculously long the connection range is, the only time I can picture Rei being left behind is in Kami needs to suddenly get somewhere quickly and can't return to pick her up, and then has to AGAIN go somewhere else before he can grab her. It mostly just offers a headache for Rei's player to manage and doesn't really offer the enemy team much in the way of gameplay options since it's more up to Rei mismanaging her location than her enemy abusing her. This is mostly a thematic thiing which exists (and perhaps a slightly poor way to limit power) that I had in mind. It probably could be improved in some manner, but it would probably have to wait for a later version before it comes to it. > > Q - I don't really like this effect, it reminds me of Odin's ultimate from Smite, which is strongly derided because it forces enemies to play by his rules rather than theirs. Unlike Jarvan's ultimate you can't even dash out of it. It being a skillshot is a bit better, and it doesn't do much in the way of damage by itself. It is quite a powerful spell in this regard, but it's also really short range-wise, meaning that in most cases you can fight back and jjump on Kami if they are in a position to utilise it. It's also a crowd control in itself, so you can break free with things like QSS and Mikael's (I know item-based counterplay isn't the best, but it still exists) > > W - Wow. The sheer damage this gives Kami is insane, as not only does it wholly convert Kami's damage to magic (this is a problem because anti-attack itemization is all armor-based for understandable reasons), it also gives her strong true damage. Late game she's going to be shredding absolutely everyone with just her attacks, her the W active just makes it stronger. Going into anti-AA itemisation is still quite beneficial in general due to the likely presence of a conventional ADC on her team as well. Admittedly once she gets several items she will be very difficult to stop due to the mixed damage nature of her AAs, but there is also the fact that magic based damage limits you heavily in the laning phase due to MR values generally being higher then. > > E - Nothing too fancy. It's a situational 3-hit execute and fear. Nice to see more champs having a fear. I kinda dislike the self-active since it essentially removes Rei as a hindrance to Kami and he doesn't really need the E to kill people thanks to his W. I'll openly admit that the partner mechanic is very much a gimmick. It's almost entirely thematic and doesn't serve _too_ much of another purpose otherwise. I'll probably nerf the W a bit and give this a bit of a slow so it's most useful at longer ranges. > > Moving onto the next set, I'm going to be more brief, but my biggest issue with Kami's two skillsets is that they somewhat encourage different builds. Kami's artifact set is largely ranged combat (except for the E, if I read it right) with basic attacks, but Kami's divine form skillset are mostly close-range bruiser abilities. I would picture people building attack speed, on-hit, and some AP for the first, and maxing cdr and durability items to abuse the W active for the second. There are two main purposes for the Divine Form abilties. The first is to act as a crutch/fallback pattern due to the lack of base values in the kit as AA based champions suffer very much during the early and mid parts of the game (Hi Vayne!) and I wanted to make sure you had a decent way to transition throughout. Secondly, try thinking of the Divine Artifact abilities as one you'd use when you start a fight, but the Divine form ones as abiilities you'd use while fighting itself (Artifact W passive and active carry over). > > In general, Kami's a neat design, but I feel if you wanted to capture the feel of a divine beast you could have just had the ultimate briefly empower him, more like what Shyvana's ultimate does. Kami as-is is somewhat overdesigned. I'll admit that my designs are most likely overly complex (Echoing mentioned this a ton on a post further down) and my next concept will most likely be a lot more streamlined (hopefully :D ) > > If I haven't turned you off after my less than glowing review of Rei/Kami, could you please take some time to review Xifeng? :) > > http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/BEzY1hAi-champion-concept-xifeng-the-unbreaking No problem! I'll be sure to take a look! Thanks for reviewing!
Echoing (NA)
: While I should probably post it on her thread, I have your attention here. In short, no counterplay. She has a passive where you apparently couldn't decide what defensive bonus to give her, so you gave her ALL of them at once, thereby giving her better tank mitigation tools than most tanks. Since the Q locks on and has a leash range so long you can't practically break it, it's a steady stream of free damage. The mobility makes it nearly impossible to deal with her (especially if you're melee - her W means you literally do no damage with your autos), and the ult is an overcomplicated damage tool that actually doesn't matter since all Evaire needs is a Black Cleaver and maybe a Sterak's Gage and other tank items and she's nigh invulnerable while dishing out significant amounts of damage. A champion stops being squishy when they get significant amounts of damage reduction just for fighting, can phase through skillshots, and get full stacks of that damage reduction if they get bursted too hard on top of a 2 second invulnerability. Also, the only person who wins when you attempt to bodyblock a Jhin ult for your low health teammate while your passive is up is Jhin.
So you're basically saying I created a 'better' version of Tank Ekko?
Echoing (NA)
: Specifically with the new changes... W's passive range is still a deal breaker. The changes you've added actually increase its range so you can snipe Caitlyn if you hit a minion she's too close to. Not a LOT of damage on that snipe, but it's true damage. She's not casually tossing out as much AoE damage, at least. W active is still loathsome to me. In reply to your earlier comment - Kog'Maw just doubles his total attack speed, cap included. That's super easy to get - just double the number no matter what. The W on-hit multiplier isn't even consistent with itself - it doesn't count as 4 hits for Rageblade or Fervor of Battle, but counts as 1.6 hits for everything else. E is way too powerful a zoning tool. With the insane W range (600!) and your Q to lock people in place, it's free CC. It has 3000 range, but you'll never actually exercise that range save for the side effect of instant mounting, since you'll be way too far out of range to do anything otherwise. I think you'd be so much better off if you gave the really complicated designs like multiple forms (Skyla, Rei, Aeria), huge strategic control (Reina), multiple upgrade paths (Rhona), and gamebreaking mobility and damage mitigation (Evaire) a rest and just tried to make a champion as simple and effective as possible. You're clever, and none of those champions (save Evaire, who is gamebreaking and completely unfun to play against) are bad, but all those mechanics mean there's difficulty in playing the champion, playing against the champion, and balancing all those different mechanics out perfectly. It sometimes feels like you're designing for a different MOBA entirely, one that's not nearly as forgiving as League but allows for all of these high-complexity champions. It'd be neat to see such a game, at least, but you're probably better off keeping it as simple as possible. Fewer mechanics means less balancing to stress over.
I never knew you disliked Evaire that much tbh. I tried to design her so she was squishy but dangerous. Could you explain further? Also Fervor of Battle is 4 because each of the Shards count and add one stack, like it should (4 mini autoattacks), but because 1 sequence is 1 autoattack activation, it stacks Guinsoos only once, like it should.
: C&C getting stale?
The CCOS is literally up right now :D
Echoing (NA)
: Definitely a permaban. Riot doesn't issue super long bans otherwise - two weeks would be the longest they'd do. I noticed the update, I'll comment on it soon.
But just for forums? Seems a bit harsh tbh.
Echoing (NA)
: I'm getting around to reviewing, but I'm shelving the certified hater bit before it gets too tired.
Given how long it's been since Rego's last anything, you think he got perma'd? Edit: Also Rei got another small update.
Echoing (NA)
: There's a difference between having natural synergy with on-hit effects (Vayne, Kog'Maw, Kayle, etc., who have their own on-hit effects and want to amplify it) and actively trying to abuse it (making autoattacks hit 4 times, even with reduced on-hit efficacy). The former is a natural consequence of things. The latter is a deliberate design choice that throws out a core rule of the game and subverts expectations. Ashe's Q, when activated, fires a volley of five arrows. They count as a single hit, because you are attacking an enemy and hitting that enemy once, even though the animation is five hits. Let's not get into how devastating some on-hits can be when applied 4 times, even at 40% power. Wit's End+Nashor's Tooth is a pretty solid way to chunk people trying to build armor since you're an autoattacker. You've got Rageblade as a core item all the way through, except 40% of an on-hit is still a hit. If you're going to correct me by saying it only builds two stacks, realize then that you've introduced even more needless mechanical complexity with these rule exceptions. Phantom Lancer, by the way, has a passive ult that gives him a chance to create copies of himself on hit. If he has Aghanim's Scepter, his COPIES have a chance of creating copies of themselves on hit. He likes to build tons of attack speed to drown his foes in copies. If she's meant to be top lane, having even a 450 ranged attack is still better than most of the competition there. 575 puts you in the same ballpark as Varus and Jhin, which is still really good. Try trolling top lane in blind pick with Jhin some time, it's amazing how much damage you can do. I'm all for minmaxing, really. Big tabletop gamer kind of guy, and I get the competitive Pokemon thing. But what you're doing here is more or less making exceptions to the inherent rules and mechanics in place so your champion can be more effective. It's clunky, it's not intuitive, and it's a cheap way of getting power. Also, the E is Warder. Why not just take a page from Skyla's book and create a field that blocks enemies for a brief time? A knockback pulse around an ally champion, perhaps? Proximity mine that repels everything away once triggered, perhaps stunning enemies thrown into a wall?
I've made a couple more changes, specifically with nerfing the W to compensate for it's power and to increase counterplay, and remaking the E (again) Can I have some opinions on the newest version?
Echoing (NA)
: I'm noticing a dearth of reviews on other contestants' champions. While the good neighbor bonus isn't as huge as last time, it still makes a pretty significant difference in who wins. Do yourself and everyone else a favor and go review other contestants. They need the help just as much as you do.
I believe we're all waiting for confirmation of acceptance into the entry list (I am, at least) just to make 100% of the reviews count. Also I'm curious as to why you're not doing your 'certified hater' reviews.
Vorazun (OCE)
: [Champion Concept] Rei, the Will of the Divine
**V1.3 - 8/2** **Divine Artifact - Arc** - Now stops 150 units past its target. - True damage reduced to 33% from 50% **Divine Artifact - Seeker** - Renamed - Completely remade.
: [CCOS] August CCOS Entry Time! Enter Here!
I'd like to enter http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/ANI2Ahza-champion-concept-rei-the-will-of-the-divine Thanks!
: "THROW ANOTHER ROCK"
> [{quoted}](name=r4ndomkill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5O1Z7g0e,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2016-08-01T03:00:01.162+0000) > > "THROW ANOTHER ROCK" "NOT LIKE THIS"
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Vorazun

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