: The Lux/Sylas comic is SO GOOD!!
This isn't a criticism (at least i wouldn't call it as such) but this entire comic has been fairly stagnant, in terms of illustrative design. Of course, the inter-relationship/drama isn't stagnant but this is a comic, for such a medium I'd have thought they'ed utilize the full capacity of dynamic illustrations and eye-catching visuals, obviously intermingled with the plot at hand. This hasn't been that so far it's been mostly enclosed, gloomy, interior environments and ad-nauseam dialogue. Which leaves me to wonder why this particular story couldn't have been a written novella instead, would have about the same impact. Then if they're going to do a Demacian focused comic, they could've set it amongst this apparent 'mage rebellion' that was hyped with Sylas' teaser but never overtly delivered on.
: Ixtal and what lies beyond of known Runeterra
Your last note about the Ruined King's origins forgets the recent reveal referring to pre-death Kalista as the "Spear of the Argent Throne" likely the king's throne. Which presumably suggests they're from Valoran possibly the Argent mountains.
zounet (EUW)
: which champions will be from the new faction?
By "faction" are you referring to the "regions" pages like what's on Universe? Cause I have a sneaky suspicion that this new faction isnt going to be significant enough to warrant it's own profile page. Qiyana might possibly end up categorized under Runeterra (or just broadly Shurima) rather than something specific for the Ixaocan. I'm curious how wrong I'm going to be, but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm right.
Zeanix (OCE)
: What Qiyana should've been
I seem to recall some people (well 50+ upvotes at least) were pretty dissatisfied with Neeko's design and had more interest in one of her early concepts where she looked more primal like a feral cave-woman. That was, for whatever reason, deemed a "missed opportunity" something her final design should have been. Quite identical to OP's thread here. They had very specific ideas for how to improve Neeko because she was "too generic" while their recomendation was innocent, regardless of their opinions and the people who agreed with it, it wasnt adequate to the ultimate goal the devs had strived for and what they had successfully managed to achieve with their creation. You catch my drift?
: > [{quoted}](name=Whyte Lyon,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=GzJwvnWE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-06-07T00:28:23.344+0000) > > Mate, you must understand. Sometimes Riot wants to design an armor-clad warrior angle, but they literally can't make it too bulky as she simply doesn't have a tank playstyle nor builds off tank item sets. To ignore that limitation just to give her a much more realistic armor design is to break the rules of visual/design communication and the importance it has. Her armor's design had to represent something far deeper than just the aesthetic. > > But y'know. That fact doesnt register for most players. Of course not. It's easier to fit your version of the narrative by presuming devs that worked on her are just asshole who don't know anything. it worked prior to her rework where she wasnt a tanky character at all and dint convey that idea in the slightest you argument hinges on people being complete simpletons who are incapable of associating a champions silleute with a certain playstyle. Your defense of this generic character design is incredibly one dimensional and filled with an undertone of snobbish cynicism toward to community, people are allowed to have views that dont always praise a creator thats how artist improve you wanker.
The armor's modern look was framed by a fundamental rule of design language/communication. You might disagree, doesnt mean jack, people with a much better comprehension of visual language than your willing to give them credit for made the decision that a slimmer demeanor was more important/a necessary requirement. Kayle's class type wasnt a Juggernaut, Diver or generally came under the description of "Fighter". Nor the underlying motif/shared visual aesthetics all those class types have between each other, otherwise she'd be guaranteed to have heavy-set of armor. It's the exact same reason assassins nor marksmen have weighty armor designs. I'm sure the dev's didnt make the decision for Kayle's armor lightly either. But still, your perception that they're somehow in the wrong is framed by a personal preference/taste. Although there is nothing wrong with that, its not instantaneously a criticism that's objectivly helpful nor will improve the quality of the devs work. Like I said, the changes to the armor "had to represent something far deeper than just the aesthetic." The devs had bigger requirements to fulfill.
: Why wait? The design is right there for people to see & form opinions on. Their intentions won't change the fact that the design pretty boring & generic.
Knowing the intention helps frame your argument better vs your own standalone typically biased interpretation. My initial opinion was she looks boring and fairly uninspired, same as everyone else. Doesnt mean I have the best frame of understanding for why it's seemingly boring. If anything I'd be too hastily judging the book by its cover.
: Riots champ design is incredibly dull now
> {{champion:10}} redesign was probably the worst offender taking her armor'd samus aran-esque appearance and replacing it with the generic skin tight body suite. Mate, you must understand. Sometimes Riot wants to design an armor-clad warrior angle, but they literally can't make it too bulky as she simply doesn't have a tank playstyle nor builds off tank item sets. To ignore that limitation just to give her a much more realistic armor design is to break the rules of visual/design communication and the importance it has. Her armor's design had to represent something far deeper than just the aesthetic. But y'know. That fact doesnt register for most players. Of course not. It's easier to fit your version of the narrative by presuming devs that worked on her are just asshole who don't know anything.
: Can we talk about Qyiana's design?
Everyone's a critic. Can we at least wait until Riot start commenting on their design intentions for this character before we create a thread festering on random people's likely misguided presumptions (many more I'm sure being typed out as we speak). We've seen this debate time and again under many circumstances, most of it is heightened by everyone throwing their subjective view around wildly of what they like or dislike. At least if we first listen to what the devs true intentions were, we can frame our arguments and greivences under much better understanding rather than prematurely like this.
: We actually talked about this at Riot. It‘s because Lord Morde is supposed to be a tribute skin for his old mains, simple as that.
Riot: Hey long time Morde players, we want to update Lord to be a tribute to his old self. Hope you love that! Me: So why does it have Krakens on its pauldrons and tentacles for the horns of the helmet? Riot: okay... well... you see it's not really a "tribute" per se.
Arakadia (NA)
: Except most outstanding career is vague and immeasurable while strength in combat is measurable even if its highly based on context.
So, in other words, debating the potential strength of fictional character is also on the spectrum of "vague and immeasurable" because it depends on that context which can be whatever random thing the writer needs to happen for the story's desired outcome.
Lewanor (NA)
: Katarina definitely didn't kill him. It would be bad decision by the Narrative team to get him killed by Katarina or Cassiopeia. Katarina because at the end of her bio she already says that she considered taking his life but didn't because he was right. Cassiopeia because she is pretty much disconnected from General almost all of her life and it wouldn't hold any weight if she killed him. But as always I don't think he is dead. Not yet at least, just MIA as always
Okay but what on earth would his come back be and for what? Him suddenly disappearing has no known consequence and certainly no known benefits if he was to return. He's not the true hair to the throne metaphorically speaking. Perhaps you see something that I dont but i still struggle to see how his pressence or lack there of holds any real significance. I think it's great that after all this time we're learning more about the mystery than what we've had from ever before. But that wasnt a high bar to meet and we're still completely in the dark. His mystery holds no known weight and still feels shallow, to me at least.
: {{champion:50}} 's demon bird(s?)
On a technical level this is entirely incorrect, or at best it's misleading to those that dont fully understand. Beatrice isnt the officially given name of Swain's demon, it has no such name and if it did it would be the best kept secret.
: How strong do you think Vladimir is compared to the other champions based on lore?
This would be like asking a lawyer, a singer, or a surgeon, which one has the more outstanding career. Like who the hell cares they each excel in their own field of expertise.
Lewanor (NA)
: Du Couteau Timeline and Family Connections
Y'know I was pretty damn convinced that the General was going to oppose Swain's coup. Revealing how he apparently helped with the usurping was a surprise, at least to me. I was sure that it made more sense for Katarina to kill her father if she discovers that he was among the "weeds" of Noxus' upper echelon. Couple it with the fact that in her youth she tried desperately to live up to him, makes for some juicy character drama. It adds further to why she eventually resented him and explains why she doesnt mourn his death/disappearance. And her killing him for that reason was another arc supporting her main narrative theme of patriotism. "It was neccesary for the good of the empire" Now, idk. Did the General deserve being killed? He clearly supported the better well being of the nation. So why did Katarina kill him?
: The real interesting part about Vile'maw is the reason it is there. Spirit God doesn't really make much sense to me because well, why would the people of the Blessed Isles first believe such a spirit? Can the souls lurking about the Isles now that they are Shadowey still have beliefs that have morphed into Vile'maw? Unlikely. I believe whatever Vile'Maw is it's going to be new. Neither Celestial or Demon really strike me down as convincing. The closest thing I think we have to it is Nagakabouros, and given her place, she could even be Nagakabouros' antagonist. It preserves beauty rather letting life do its thing. It resides in the place that is most against Nagakabouros' ideology of change and cycles, and there's even the whole Mist invading The Serpent Isles plot, which further puts these two figures against each other.
I'm going to argue that it being" Nagakabouros' antagonist" doesnt work either. The giant spider has this unique ability to repel the Mist and ghosts of the Shadow Isles. This is how Elise and her sacrifices manage to not only get to the Isles as well as safely traverse the distance to Vilemaw's lair. Otherwise the island can sense living trespassers and will attack them. If Elise and her sacrifices weren't protected from the Mist, then the spider starves. If the Spider is feasting on flesh, then it's clear to me it's some kind of living, breathing aberration. Which would make it a target for the Isles. If it was related/connected to the Mist and its powers, it should logically embrace the Mists, not actively defend itself, its brood and food source from it.
: Like they will ever continue to build up characters. lol.
It's not entirely about progressing a character's narrative. I understand that what many want Riot to strive for, but what is equally (or imo vastly more) important is establishing the character, conveying how they tick, what their philosophy is, what their inner conflicts are. The nuances that elevates the character above and beyond what your preconceived expectation were. Biographies dont convey any of that perspective, they're not meant for telling stories but they're a summary like you'd find on the back of a novel. The summary isnt misleading but it is functionally unreliable, and yet the source of complaints with almost every LU. Talk about misjudging the book by its cover. Then this attitude of _'riot sucks because they dont progress things quick enough'_ is the attitude of the inpatient and willfully ignorant (unless you have something more to add to your vauge comment). We're not stuck in 2015 anymore, they've fleshed out many characters through modern Colour Stories and/or extended stories. The few champions without as such obviously yet to reach that potential (Malzhara) but theres no mistake there's been plenty extended stories that've enriched the psychology and even the stakes of many more champions, even ones whose lore seemed completely shallow. To list all of them and their respected extended lore would needlessly bloat out this comment box.
Ralanr (NA)
: The tragedy of Sion's bio is that Sion is no longer a tragic character.
We've been told numerous times and should already be fully understanding that Biographies are a super broad summary about a character's origins/background. Comparable to a Wikipedia account, you get all the necessary information and nothing more. Yet time again, we get threads of this nature yammering on about how the new bio has 'lost or missing the entire essence' of the character... shocking. People seem to always be looking for the emotional depth to their favourite character in the wrong place, bios aren't written to have that compelling deep dive that explores the emotional and nuanced depth. You can almost always find the meat and gravy your looking for in the character's extended stories. Take Ashe for example, her bio is fairly linear and reads in a particularly boring fashion, then you read her comic and oh boy is it vastly superior at conveying the character. Go read her comic, dont bother with the bio it's only useful as a very basic intro. It only sucks that we have to wait and be patient still for that.
: There is no heaven. (in the lore)
Im curious what the difference is meant to be between the Death Realm (that Sahn visited) and the Spirit Realm. The Spirit Realm contains the 'essence' of abstract things like concepts, emotion, the environment/flora, and seemingly the source of magic. While it can create conscience beings of pure energy too, which can also materialize in the physical world. Probably among many other things. While the Death Realm, as far as we know at this time, contains the life-force of the deceased specifically humans and (maybe) the things that aren't inherently magical. But also that life-force isnt infinite and eventually it either evaporates into oblivion or is reincarnated/repurposed. I'm not sure what's going on, or what the writers are setting up, but my initial thought is the Death Realm is a (very depressing) sub-domain in the Spirit Realm. Like how Yordles and Bandle City are an extended branch of the Spirit Realm. Otherwise, the whole ordeal is frustratingly confusing. At least the D&D cosmology is divide among realms with a concise structure; Order/Chaos and Good/Evil. While Runeterra's looks more like Environment/Emotion and Concept/Celestial. Or something like that, dont quote me on it.
Parznip (NA)
: Pls Keep Volibear a Bear
You do understand that Voli as depicted in "Silence for the Damned" had just come off a brutal fight with his fellow spirit-kin Ornn, which Voli's physical form took a heavy beating from (basically Ornn W'd Voli's face and melted half of it off). The whole point of his depiction was because he needed Sejuani's tribe for more worshipers to heal himself. Hence his ugly description, its not his 'real' form, just the mangled mess of raw spiritual energy coming apart at the seams. Archaic and incomprehensible magic retangling itself back together, albeit incompletely. Given time, focus, and with new sustenance Voli should put himself back into his preferred form, the one we're all familiar with. Not to forget, does this not still look like a bear to you?? https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/9/9c/Ornn_lore_04.png/revision/latest?cb=20170808195843
: Wait hold up there. We’re only on Jarv 3 (4 is still a Prince). In order for 200 years to pass we’re looking at reigns of kings lasting 66 years. That’s insane. Honestly 3 kings in 100 years is pushing it. The average reign of a medieval king is slightly less than 20 years. Sure some may get to 50, but most warrior kings have a tendency to get killed off after about 10.
Well fine, but Sion's lore confirms "over a century past". Even if it isnt 200 he still died before Boram's birth, so that changes little of my core argument. Sue me for having an over estimation. My guess is J4=25, J3=40, J2=40-50, J1=25. That's like 130-140 years ago.
Opop (EUW)
: The thing however, is that ever since the Swain rework, Sion couldn't be a friend of Boram. The only reason why old lore Boram knew Sion in life, was because in the old lore Boram was a necromancer who extended his life Sion had died a long long time ago (bygone era is an ambiguous time frame but it was at least 4 generations ago) and Boram was a contemporary of that time. With Swain's new lore (and the Noxian update in general) Boram became a regular human, and if you want proof that he wasn't long lived, the main reason why the invasion of Ionia happened was because Boram felt (under influence from LeBlanc) that he was growing old and wanted to extend his life. Heck, if you want any indication of Sion's color story no longer 100% canon, just look at the line ''He is hobbled, a leg wound from the battle? If it pains him, he does not show it. A true Noxian.'' Which is a reference to Swain limping and needing a cane, which no longer is the case with the VGU. Regardless of that: His new bio doesn't invalidate the part of him being confused and solemn while out of combat, as seen by this line ''There he languished for many years, neither alive nor truly dead.''
Thank you, a person who actually does understands the bigger scope of the topic here. I was in the process of making this exact comment. This new LU for Sion is the best for a cohesive and logically setting up events in the fixed timeline. To maintain Boram and Sion's partnership, and to claim that without their relationship it somehow ruining Sion's character is a bit absurd in my eyes. Also Boram is my favourite NPC, and I think this new arc that was established with Swain's rework is the best for his character and the changes it's made to Sion's too.
Caenen (EUW)
: How do you know the Boram we see at the end of his rule, portrayed in Swain's lore, is the very same that once rose to power? This man was maipulated by the Black Rose constantly, emotionally scarred by not just losing his friend, but by literally making it **worse** for him! Scared for his own life, he became restless, then desperate, then mad. Devolving into the mad Emperor who Swain finally removed from the Noxian throne.
Okay let's break this down on how that could work. So current canon is: * Sion needed to have been born some 200 years ago, so he would encounter and kill Jarvan 1st. * Boram needed to be born during a similar time as Swain, so that Swain could usurp Boram. * Neither Sion nor Boram could logically encounter each other while Sion was still living. If instead: * Remove Sion's birth from 200 years ago to about 40 years, so he could be alive during both Swain and Boram's time and then the things you described can happen. * Problem is Sion killing Jarvan 1st is now gone, which isn't as good for establishing the two countries long rivalry. * Or Sion kills Jarvan 3rd, which ruins and changes will need to be made for J4 and Xin Zhao's lore, among other things. or: * Maybe Boram is immortal and alive 200 years ago, like the old lore used to imply and then the things you describe can still happen. * Problem is that utterly negates Swain's entire arc to usurp Boram- how does he kill an immortal? * That also changes the entire established motivation for why Noxus has been bleeding itself dry with too many conquests, which kinda ruins Boram's arc too now.
: Hey! Morde's writer here. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts! A couple thoughts to share back. First, know that with any champion rework, we first seek to understand as deeply as possible what makes a champion great, what excites players about that champion, and what are the core essences that define who that champion is. From there, we set out to craft their place in wider Runeterra. Any change has the potential to be painful. Know that the folks on the team are all highly passionate players and story geeks to the Nth degree; no change was made lightly, and no expansion or shifted emphasis was done without heavy thought and robust discussion. One of the things I most appreciate about being at Riot is the space and time we give projects to do things as right as possible. Do we miss the mark sometimes? Well, to be human is to err. (Unless you're Mordekaiser. Then you just cease being human. :P) But I am grateful to have teams who are super passionate and knowledgeable all working to craft something to share that excites us and, we hope, the players that love this content. Onto some Morde specific thoughts: 1) Mordekaiser is an extremely accomplished necromancer - a soul of iron will and arcane power, and a warlord of deep intellect. Mordekaiser defied death by sheer force of will - a feat literally no other mortal on Runeterra had accomplished. The ghosts of the Shadow Isles are in the living realm because of a magical catastrophe; Mordekaiser _refused to accept the reality around him_. He gained necromantic powers in the death realm by listening to the maddening whispers of souls and *deciphering an unspoken language* over untold time, teaching himself Ochnun. (I barely learned some broken Spanish after 4 years of studying, so, uh, there's that.) Through those profane whispers, he also figured out how to speak across the veil of death and deceive mortals into thinking they could bring him back and bind him to their will - only to slaughter them all. Once returned, he didn't kill without a plan, despite what his enemies thought: > To his foes, it seemed he cared only for massacre and destruction. Entire generations perished under his relentless campaigns. > However, there was far more to Mordekaiser’s plan. He raised the Immortal Bastion at the center of his empire; while most assumed it was merely a seat of power, some came to know the secrets it held. Mordekaiser hungered for all the forbidden knowledge of spirits and death, and a true understanding of the realm… or realms… beyond. Mordekaiser sought out more arcane knowledge about the dead and about spirits, growing his necromantic powers while doing what he did best in his first life - conquering - all to serve his bigger purpose. He also built an impossible physical monument to his power that has secrets yet untold. And all of that empowered him to harvest souls, grow his necromantic power, and build an army of spirits bound to his will. It takes a necromancer of some power to exert such control. Also, Mordekaiser's rebuke of death was so thorough that he learned how to forge his own afterlife and realm. He is a necromancer not bound to physical totems or phylacteries, but has managed to reject the very cycle of life and death that seemed his destiny. 2) Mordekaiser is the warlord that inspired the entire Noxian empire. Take a look at his quote: "Destiny. Domination. Deceit." You might find it maps to the Noxian / Trifarix principles of strength: "Vision, Might, Guile." Consciously or not, Mordekaiser's legacy spawned an entire culture that emulated his conquests and his philosophies. Yet to him, Noxians are a watered down imitation of his previous glory. At the same time, to every day Noxians, his legacy as a conqueror is of mythic proportions - legends so big, they are hard to believe as history. (A real world comparison is the Romulus and Remus mythos around the founding of Rome.) 3) Mordekaiser is an unstoppable threat and a major force that looms over Runeterra. His first return, when his necromantic powers were new, resulted in a massive period of tyrannical rule that took both betrayal from within and united enemies from without to stop him. Now, he has amassed an army of souls, collected powerful arcane knowledge, and has plans and machinations in place... 4) There was a lot of discussion that led to Morde no longer being associated with the Shadow Isles. It was not a decision we made lightly. In fact, I originally argued against it, but came to agree with our narrative lead and lead editor on why it is the stronger story choice. Ultimately, we made the call due to a number of factors: **Death magic and necromancers exist beyond the Shadow Isles.** Runeterra is a big place, with a long history. The Shadow Isles was just one (albeit enormous) cataclysmic event that caused a specific area of Runeterra to become frozen in time, and to have a very specific form of undeath permeate the land. Ultimately, Mordekaiser's old connection to Shadow Isles felt primarily driven by a feeling that we had to shoehorn him into our "ghost faction". In our current storytelling efforts, we're interested in expanding our factions out beyond some of those wide (and as a result flat) characterizations that were made in years past. Another great example of this is how Demacia is more than just "the good guys" faction, as seen in how they deal with their relationship to magic, brought to the forefront with Sylas and Lux's story (shameless comic plug here - go read it!). **Questions of geography / narrative complexity** In terms of our geography, Shadow Isles is far flung from where the Immortal Bastion is. (Yay, Runeterra Map!) While I loved the idea that it took taking Morde's remains across the world to prevent him from returning, ultimately it felt honoring Morde's connections to the Immortal Bastion yielded more rich storytelling space. It also simplified a narrative beat in his backstory, allowing me to zero in on his arc and agency, rather than a moment of denied choice where outside forces moved him, and then an outside cataclysm happened to bring him back. **I wanted Mordekaiser to shed all mortal weakness.** A big guiding star for me was the question, "what makes Morde metal and terrifying and unique?" How do we take "necromantic warlord" and push him to an 11? One answer that excited us - rather than having a physical weakness of his mortal remains, what if he shed just about everything that made him remotely human? To me, his title, "The Iron Revenant," served a lot of inspiration in this regard, and further cemented the pivot away from his remains being a major weakness or vulnerability. 5) For a character like Mordekaiser, who spans massive swaths of Runeterra's timeline and history, his story has large impacts on larger reaching histories and stories we are setting up to tell. Clarifying and focusing Mordekaiser's story in allows us to help make greater sense of many other characters and champs. Some stories are just subtle hints right now, breadcrumbs that I can't wait to explore more fully in other outlets than just Mordekaiser's bio. This leads to some more general thoughts in regards to writing for Riot and League: 6) A huge challenge of being a narrative writer on League of Legends is the space in which we get to tell the story of a champion. In game, the main narrative outlet is a champ's voiceover script - a very specific set of lines, with very tight gameplay constraints on length. It definitely has its strengths and weaknesses as a storytelling expression. Out of game, we have a champ's biography and color story. A bio is, by its nature, more summary than story, more exposition told as evocatively as possible than scene-driven in depth storytelling. Our color stories are also a very specific length, and are crafted to give a very specific snapshot of the champion in action. With a champ that's larger than life like Mordekaiser, this means that there's much that remains untold in full, many details that must be summarized, and TONS of story space that is ripe for deeper exploration in future storytelling endeavors. And honestly, that's part of the joy as well - leaving tantalizing questions for players to ask, to explore, to theorize, and to discover. For now, I have to leave Mordekaiser with his Bio, VO, and color story. But if players are excited to learn more about his history, I hope we'll have more opportunities to expand and explore as we continue to strive as a narrative team to help move Runeterra's events forward in time. Whew, this got quite long - apologies! I hope these thoughts were interesting, and helped to answer a bit of the question "why did his lore have to change?" as well as address some of your feelings that he isn't the epic, metal champ he was! Thanks for reading and caring about Mordekaiser, this game, and our world and story as much as you do, and sharing that with us. :)
Can you comment on the exact time frame of Mordekaiser's impact on Runeterra and how long his tyrannical rule existed? The current structure of the timeline as far as I can tell fits Mordekaiser's reign of terror somewhere between the Darkin War (which started circa 2,600 years ago) and the Rune Wars (circa 1,000 years ago). We know Darkin were still roaming eastern Valoran by the time Vladimir was born (which might have been 1,500-1,200 years ago). So I would like to know if Morde's first return coincides with the Darkin War? If it was still raging on or had it long since ended by the time Morde started his tyranny? If the Darkin War was over already am I to believe Morde ruled only for 500 years before banishment? Regardless tho, those previous 3,000 years wasnt a good era of history to be alive, in fact, how did humanity survive through three different periods on again off again suppression and annihilation?
: Sion's New Bio and the Disconnect Between Community Identity and Author's Intent of Characterization
Boram Darkwill is/was a delusional, weak of physicality, irrational strategist, a patronizing aristocratic, threw tantrums and worst of all, the oblivious pawn to other influencers for his entire rule. I've been arguing since Sion's first LU with his rework that their partnership/relationship being anything on the functional side, straight up made no sense. Sion might've once been established as the right-hand man of Boram, but there's no way a guy like Sion would have the respect nor the tolerance to serve a guy like him. Let alone become chums with Boram in life, their personalities never really aligned. Sion's placement in the timeline is intended to be from a _bygone_ era in Noxus' history, and to change that just so they can be alive during the same era would require drastic changes to the building blocks of the timeline. Honestly, the update made the most sense for cohesive reasons, to change how its structured would have a huge impact of the core history of Noxus, literally Swain's entire arc to becoming Grand General and other segments of the lore in general.
: No Shadow Isle love, huh?
I'm of the opinion that Karthus and Elise are horrifying underdeveloped characters and need more fleshing out. I would've assumed the writers were to take this opportunity to edit/reconfigure their biographies, since they were both written before 2018. Other than them I dont think the remaining Shadow Isles champs particularly need tweaking/revisiting (not that it's up to me anyway). So a push for a lore update featured back on the Isles wasnt necessary, especially when there was one already only a month ago. I was, still am interested in how the Shadow Isles is divided among the different champions, as apparently each have a unique domain on the Isles. Apparently Vilemaw can repel the ghosts of the Mists from its area of the isles, which raises a bunch of questions. Yorick has yet to encounter any other champions, so has Maokai. Apparently Karthus has his own corner of the Isles and one would have assumed (at the time) that Morde did too.
man of tin (EUNE)
: @Riot Please at least give Lord Mordekaiser some purple/pinkish recolored effects
it's funny how the original design/shape of Lord Mordekaiser's bladed mace was transferred to the reworked Infernal skin and not kept for this one. Cause that makes all the sense in the world...
: Morde's Interactions
Im going to presume they likely had recorded a quote or two for Kindred, just for whatever nonsensical reason it was left out of the final product. Maybe it would be a good idea to ask the devs when/if they do an AMA.
: PBE UPDATE: Mordekaiser's Skin Splash Arts
Why does 'Lord Mordekaiser' have a Cthulhu/Ghosts of Saltmarsh theme to his splash? Those two things are not what I would have presumed to be associated with that skin, but whatever...
: Lol client vs Runeterra.
The 'Hextech' nature of the client is a PR decision exclusively for familiarity purposes. Simply to emulate the visual aesthetics of the entire League IP (that includes its lore) to keep it cohesive and recognizable for its audience. This is the exact same reason why the visuals for Ranked Medals contain very distinguishable elements from League's world building. So it's probable this also applies to why certain items and the Rune pages look aesthetically recognizable, even though they're not strictly connected to the canon.
: Shadows of damnation story
Unlike Biographies, the Colour Stories dont get retconed/removed from the website unless it contains drastic inconsistencies. Or at least there has to be an exceptional reason for doing so, like what happened to Jhin's removed story. But I think Shadows of Damnation is fine, but we'll just have to wait and see. It might get an editorial update at the very most.
GreenLore (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Whyte Lyon,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=U0TKhHXJ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-27T21:28:06.915+0000) > > ● Lissandra > ● LeBlanc > ● Azir > ● Cho'Gath (the implications of his power is devastating) > ● Zyra > ● Malphite > > If I'm considering putting an blind ice-witch, a wanna be courtesan and a sandy bird man all above The Iron Revenant, then there's a problem. Leblanc used to be Mordekaisers servant, so I highly doubt that she is more powerful than him.
It's more about the impact/influence/significance as well as raw power. If they have all the above rather than solely the raw power, then they're truly a threatening individual. It's also just a sample list from a pool of top tier characters, I could've include different ones.
: How strong is Mordekaiser compared to other champions?
His reworked biography will be released within a day or two. I'd argue wait till then, because its difficult to say with certainty the extent of his power/might. I will say this however... The writers desperately need to play up the historical significance/influence/power of Mordekaiser's character. We have only ever been 'told' that Mordekaiser is a big bad guy, yet we've never been shown or given in-depth detail about the extent of his severity. I'd argue the significance of Morde's terror has been the fans using their perception of other fictional characters (like Sauron) as influence on our perception of Morde, rather than any concrete understanding of what he actually is. This needs to change. Compare his impact or 'threat' level in his current pre-rework state, to any of the other immortal and powerful individuals in Runeterra, and I believe Mordekaiser would struggle to rise beyond the top 5. ● Lissandra ● LeBlanc ● Azir ● Cho'Gath (the implications of his power is devastating) ● Zyra ● Malphite If I'm considering putting an blind ice-witch, a wanna be courtesan and a sandy bird man all above The Iron Revenant, then there's a problem.
: Gotta hand it to Riot for nailing this Mordekaiser Rework
That new ultimate is something to behold. https://66.media.tumblr.com/a8b3be261995690675778472a3d8443b/tumblr_pbxzcuHHa01xp88owo1_500.gif
: Lux already had an update to her voice over, tho. She is definitely very low in priority when it comes to that stuff, it would actually extremely upset me if they gave her another update to her voice over, considering that there are so many champions in the game which are in a way more horrible state in terms of in game quotes. Like, there are even voice overs which **completely contradict the actual lore**. {{champion:53}} {{champion:61}} Or some are just so extremely limited that they are actually not portraying the champion and are just some generic stereotype instead. {{champion:51}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:76}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:4}} I can agree that Lux, should she ever get _another_ update, should have lines referring to what you are talking about here. But this should definitely not happen in the next years. Lux had her share of attention when it comes to this. There are way more urgent cases to serve before her now.
I'd say it's incredibly unlikely, like pipe-dream levels of unlikely. But Viktor, Brand, LeBlanc and Xerath could have a completely new VO. Their personality and attitude are completely different if not more nuanced than the crap VO they have in-game. At least some of the champs you mentioned have reworks on their horizon, while none of these guys have even the slightest chance of being reworked any time soon.
: Riot's update attempt with Varus' Lore caused a lot of issues for Varus' Character
I'm not at all bothered if a character can expand their narrative beyond what the in-game version could ever hope to represent (so long as the champ isnt currently need of a vgu anyway). That's kinda the fact of the matter with building an unrestricted lore.
: So what's Gragas' lore?
Probably one of the objectively bankrupt characters the lore has to or could have to offer. Like I'm not trying to be a dick, but seriously, of the roster of characters with even a basic notion of depth, emotion, personality, aspirations or even the slightest bit of agency within the very universe he supposedly exists in. Gregas is a piece of cardboard. The remnants of his old lore has arguably nothing substantial to offer nor a foundation that might have compelling potential. At least compared to other champs who hardly exist at all in their universe (Malphite, Zilean, Shaco etc) all have a captivating fantasy baseline. On a character-level, what amazing potential could be tapped into from Gragas? I can't see anything. But I say a huge pay rise to whichever writer takes up the challenge and thoroughly pulls it off!!
: Could Vlad please get an in-game model update?
First of all, what is your definition of a visual update? Since we've had some new changes to Malphite currently, which have been particularly small scale VU work and Riot could settle for similar changes if they deem Vladimir equally worthy. Yet that is hardly a 'traditional' rework so much as it's more a qol update, with no VO or splash art upgrades but plenty of VFX and model adjustments. Although these qol changes are just updates that ultimately puts the champ's inevitable full rework on the backburner for a much more extended set of time. As much as Vladimir might become a candidate for adjustments like Malphite and Zhin Xao have, I'm actually hopping he doesnt. I'm arguing against these types of 'reworks', to me they deny the community the potential that comes only from VGUs or a VgU. Leaning more into a Vladimir VgU like which Morgana, Ezreal & Aatrox had. But that's just me.
Pale Mask (EUW)
: A VGU that's easily overlooked
I've been barking up this tree for a full VGU for a while now, and I'm definitely on board for one. I dont play LeBlanc (assassins dont interest me like they do with the majority of players). I tried pitching the potential of a VGU to r/LeBlancmains. Particularly her visuals, I want it to be a pretty significant overhaul but the 'mains' weren't wildly enthused. I think LeBlanc IS league's Tilda Swinton, but I highly doubt Riot would change this pre-existing character to be anything other than distinctly feminine (in fear of alienation/backlash), nevermind how compelling a character like 'Faceless' is as this gender-ambiguous entity. My androgynous suggestion totally inspired by the deadly sin Lust from Darksiders 3. As well as the character of Desire from Neil Gaiman's comic The Sandman. Or again Tilda Swinton in many of her on screen roles. The first two figures share some similar aspects with LeBlanc and her lore. Both are charming and twisted beings that personify deception. With which they delight in preying on their foes deepest wants and taking advantage of that. Which perfectly describes LeBlanc and so I thought if a being who can become any person, they too wont be concerned with what their primary gender are. So why not embrace the potential of making her gender mutable like these characters, I'm confident it still fits appropriately with the character's fantasy. We know the "Faceless" is a completely covered and unidentifiable entity who sows fear into the imagination of Noxus' enemies because it could walk among them and they'd never know.
Sharjo (EUW)
: I mean people are more inclined to call you an arse for your dismissive and abrassive tone rather than anything. I mean you seem to have decided to not even broach the concept the Seeker's Armguard and Deadman's Plate are items that exist in game that are worn, in universe, in canon, by Sejuani and Ganngplank. Gangplank's is easy to spot in his splash art, Sejuani's is a little harder to see but a quick look at her 3D model reveals all: https://teemo.gg/model-viewer?skinid=113000 https://news-a.akamaihd.net/public/images/pages/2015/gpu3/img/GP_Splash_WP2.jpg Like they're literally right there. In universe. And yes, that's only 2 items. Yes that's a small sample size relative to the menagerie of items League has to offer. But 2 is enough to make you stop and wonder "Hm. What other items might be canon?" Swain literally refers to Avarosa as the "Frost Queen" during an Ashe interaction, a.k.a. not an item interaction. The item Frost Queen's Claim did exist in game before being removed from the item shop a while back. Whether or not she had the blade in canon isn't known, but given they deliberately named the thing "Frost Queen's Claim" says a lot about the authorial intent because it directly ties the item to a canon character in League. You don't do shit like that lightly. Same with Blade of the Ruined King. By naming items like this they basically open the door to speculation and say "Yo these items are also potentially connected". And while the vast majority of items don't have these connotations, the artistic styles opens them up to be included in the canon itself regardless of the specific histories. Sunfire cape has the emblem of Shurima, Randuin's Omen has the emblem of Demacia. The Lost Chapter has the Shadow isles crest upon its pages. Potential cute references? Maybe. Potential story hooks? Also maybe. I'm not arguing either way that every single item is canon, cuz realistically there's no way to prove that and when I personally say I support the idea, I just do because I think items being canon just makes the universe richer. What I am arguing is that it's basically a fact that there's atleast 2 cases of items being used by champions in canon, with evidence for other items potentially being canon or just strongly tied to places in the Universe that could add to the lore by virtue of them just existing. What I'm also arguing is that regardless of whether you agree with a theory that hinges on items or not, you can tone down the arseness of your response and maybe people won't downvote you in to oblivion. Being mean _and_ negative doesn't win people over, it just makes people not wanna even discuss with you.
Well considering that you're rising to the occasion means you are passionate to be responsive especially in this firm manner. Valid points I might add. I'd say the same opportunity can be said for my second comment. While my first was incredibly ill received, yet nothing about it was overtly 'rude' dont I get the chance to be equally passionate/ firm in explaining myself with a follow up response? Perhaps not, perhaps it's easier to label me as an unreliable comment, interpreting my inital and further perspectives as projected aggression (which wasnt intentional) and therefore a null counter argument because it doesnt conform with everyone's interpretations or a vast majority of any other time their wishful thinking.
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Whyte Lyon,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=A7ycvs6b,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-05-16T14:16:37.734+0000) > > But they're not. Just because items share the aesthetics or qualities that can be found in-universe, doesnt make them canonical without ever legitimately been mentioned. AFAIK, no item has been mentioned in official stories. > > I'm curious what convinced you they were ? That is not quite true.. Lore has now expanded to the map aswell. If you go to Freljord you will see that the Frostqueen's Claim is depicted. Seeker's Armguard used to belong to Lissandra, Sejuani now wears it as seen in her splash art. I can not Imagine that an Item like Deadmans Plate, Iceborn Gauntlet do not exist in lore...Blade of the ruined King is familiar to Yorick when buying it, he talks about it. Gargoyle Stoneplate is what Galio wears. There you go pal
> If you go to Freljord you will see that the Frostqueen's Claim is depicted. Seeker's Armguard used to belong to Lissandra, Sejuani now wears it as seen in her splash art. I can not Imagine that an Item like Deadmans Plate, Iceborn Gauntlet do not exist in lore...Blade of the ruined King is familiar to Yorick when buying it, he talks about it. Gargoyle Stoneplate is what Galio wears. There you go pal. Something you, and clearly none else is capable of factoring in mind is that the art for items simply emulate the aesthetics of lore to keep the entire League IP cohesive and recognizable. So there are in-game items that are Ionian looking, there's an item which looks like a Darkin, and there are items that look like Hextech. But Sword Razor isnt canonical, Death's Dance wasnt a fallen Ascended, and what of the client? Which is heavily inspired by canonical Hextech devices, am I to be convinced that the client exists in-universe? Then you have items being referenced by champion's which neither makes them 100% canonical either. Ornn mentions Duran, why? Because it's a fun little joke that breaks the fourth-wall a bit. Why does Yorick acknowledge BotRK? Because the item came before that lore, because the item is representative of the canonical character and so it can give insight into what Yorick might say to the RKing. The blade doesnt get to be canonical until its legitamtly mentioned in story. Champions acknowledge non-canonical items all the time, writers have gone of record to say that doesnt make the item canon! So you've based a claim which relies on evidence that's equally speculative connection, and convinced yourself its authentic. All from observation that fails to go any deeper than what's at face value. Yeah nah, that's not a strong theory if it relies on a misperception that in-game items are canonical. Call me a huge skeptic, call me an asshole for not blindly being convinced.
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: I know where Norra is.
> As we all noticed by now, some in- game items are lore related. For example: Frost Queen's Claim, Seeker's Armguard, Guardian's Orb and many others I can't think of right now. But they're not. Just because items share the aesthetics or qualities that can be found in-universe, doesnt make them canonical without ever legitimately been mentioned. AFAIK, no item has been mentioned in official stories. I'm curious what convinced you they were ?
Zoli Ben (EUNE)
: Now that the VGU voting is over... How long until the results are announced?
The thing not to be looking forward to is the flood of anti-reworks and paranoia threads that will dominate the boards and/or Reddit for the first day whichever is announced. AFAIK, it's only the Fiddlestick's mains who're unanimously supportive and enthusiastic about their champ being reworked. The others have a heavy amount of 'fans' who're pretty depressed that their champ was even listed at all.
zounet (EUW)
: questions about yordles
> I think that the new yordle lore is good, but quite short. I thought it would be a bigger update, as for the darkins, I'm a little disappointed ... Actually, the IP Communications Strategist (aka, person who announces new lore-based content) confirmed a few weeks ago that the "Bandle City LU" was going to be very small scale. Granted it was confirmed via Twitter and not anything official afaik. But it was made public and to all those disappointed this wasn't a larger update today, it was never intended to be a big thing and it's not like Riot ever suggested it might. Not to mention, all lore updates post- Swain's rework have been very small scale. Usually like two bio updates and just one long-ish story. That's just the new distribution of lore updates from here on out, unless of an exception.
Aazog (EUW)
: @Riot, about Eternum Nocturne.
The 'lore' for Eternum (or any skin for that matter) is just flavour text, which is just a cosmetic feature to add more personality to the skin/s. And some people find partial value when they think it might somehow be important to lore, or related to another skin theme. But the rabbit hole doesnt, nor even intended to go much deeper than what's at face value.
: New stories and bios - Yuumi, yordles, and Draven!
So this update featuring new LU's for Tristana and Lulu was very predictable, I called it that Corki & Rumble will be permanently on the backburner. Although I'm completely surprised that Teemo's is on the backburner too.
: Reasons why I think Dr. Mundo deserves the 2020 VGU spot the most
Dr. Mundo is/was the closest thing to a 'main' when I first started League. With him, Cho'gath and Morde being the last of my old mains who need reworks. But considering that Dr. Mundo doesn't have the most cohesive nor even a particularly interesting thematic, I cant bring myself to care for the prospects of his rework especially when compared to others. Like I'm not that interested in Fid, Nocturne & Shyvana's gameplay and playstyle in the slightest, probably wouldn't even pick them up post-reworking. But despite their thematic needs to be better represented, their core fantasy has/will have much more resonance than whatever Dr. Mundo's is meant to be. That I would lean much, much, much further into seeing the other's rework get greenlit more than the one champion I used to adore, isnt that weird? I still voted for him.
: So what do you think of Varus being the one singing "Mortal Reminder"? His theme of Vengeance matches and it perfectly describes his story: > As the masses came Like a shadow through this land They laid siege to all we ever had I stood strong, I was honor bound This is him defending his post at all costs, even though everyone else left. He stayed because his honor commanded him to. > While other wardens abandoned their posts to join the defense of the outlying villages, he alone remained, screaming in anguish with every arrow he loosed—for he had chosen to uphold his oaths rather than return home to protect his own family. He was chosen specifically for staying and defending, and ascended to fight against the Void. > I stand defiant, I stand ever proud I am the chosen I am the guardian, the guardian Pretty much everything else is Darkin Varus, talking about Vengeance > Blinded by hate brought by the fall As I swear death to all You will feel my vengeance As I claim your mortal soul I will punish and destroy Those responsible for this ploy I will seek a thousand deaths I will bring a thousand years of war   > Now I seek the blood of those Who claimed the innocent I will hunt the enemy to the last I will banish and rejoice The final breath of foes You will see what you have made You will see what I have finally become as well as his imprisonment as a Darkin Bow >For every sleep claims a piece of me Every waking moment, every single dream   > For every day claims a piece of me Every waking hour claims my inner peace My inner peace The last lines are ambiguous, this holds true for both the Ascended Varus and the Darkin, because it describes events of his life again. > All that I had taken away My home is gone, and my loved ones slain   > All that I had laid to the waste My spirit broken and just memories remain I like to think that these two describe his downfall from Ascended to Darkin, where the second one is much more closer to the Darkin.
I'm failing to grasp how all of that is relevant to the claim Morde is "The Lightbringer". It's narrative is also a very broad, cliche (heavy metal) fantasy plotline about some guy whose been 'wronged' and now seeks vengeance and/or absolution. Lots of rock bands that Pentakill is inspired from tell identical little narratives. It's vauge enough so the listener can super impose their own interpretation out of the songs.
: While that is definitely true for Pentakills 1st album. The 2nd album became a lot more story driven.
Irregardless of having a deeper lyrical narrative to the 2nd album, doesnt change the objective fact that it wasnt intended to be about anything canonical nor explicit implications towards specific champions. Pentakill's narrative-like lyrics were simply a fun alt universe take on items that have zero impact on League's prime lore, nor even the game really.
Lewanor (NA)
: Mordekaiser is the "Lightbringer"
So like, I understand that there's buzz for the Mordekaiser rework, and even I'm desperate for any scrap of content that might be related to him. Which I'd hate to be the 'bad guy' here but I'm a huge skeptic at the validity of this attempted theory. There'd be zero chance this song was written in reference to Mordekaiser and I think all of your assertions are drawn from flawed connections. The lyrics to this song are a fun AU for a selection of old and current items in-game. "The Lightbringer" isnt a person or a title belonging to an individual and im highly doubting the implications that Morde might've used a different weapon before Nightfall. Along with all the other songs are lyrically from the item's perspective or about their effects. Nevermind all of that, these lyrics weren't written by anyone from the Narrative department. They had nothing to do with Pentakill's development. None of it is/has references to champions, prime lore, or anything that might someday become either of those two things. This thread is nothing much other than wishful-thinking. To most it probably sounds good on a basic level, sadly it doesnt really work when considering everything else.
: Vote for a Champion VGU for 2020!
Ha. Of all the dedicated 'mains' communities on Reddit, the Fiddlestick community is the only one actually unanimously supportive and enthusiastic. The other communities have a sizable amount of paranoid crybabies openly depressed that _their_ champ is even among the list. Jesus christ, grow up...
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Whyte Lyon

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