: You should show us a clip of a tanky jungler getting 100-0ed by a Zed who fucks up that badly. I doubt they'd even meaningfully notice the damage. For reference, Here's the damage calcs. I will assume for best possible chance that Zed has already finished his Serrated Dirk and Amumu and Sejuani have just a Ruby crystal (and jungle item which gives no stats), on their way towards their Cinderhulk. I'll also do my best to add runes for damage + tankiness. On Zed's side, Death mark does 100% tAD + 25% damage dealt during mark duration. So how much is 25%? It's gotta be a lot given that Zed only has 112.2 (76.4 base + 25 from Dirk + 10.8 from runes) AD to start the Death Mark. I'll be extremely generous and add all of Ignite's 170 true damage into Death Mark's damage amp, even though only 3 seconds of the 5 second DoT would normally apply. So our total damage is up to 170 true + 144.7 Physical damage. But wait, I hear you say, Electrocute is busted. Well 1, it wouldn't even proc in this instance. Not enough triggers given that everything missed. But, like I did with ignite, I'll give this calculation the best possible chance. Somehow, the game bugged and Electrocute went off _AND_ got added to the Death Mark damage. What's that look like? Well, Electrocute does 74.12 base + 14.32 scaling damage for a total of 88.44 physical damage, a total of 110.55 when accounting for Death Mark's ramp. So that's the damage total. 170 True Damage + 255.25 Physical damage. Even ignoring resistances, This would not kill a level 1 Anivia/Yuumi (Tied with the lowest base HP at 480). Suffice to say, this would NEVER kill a level 6 tank. But ok, maybe he hit his E. That's pretty hard to screw up with his ult. How much would that do? Level 1 Zed E is 70 + 28.64 scaling, total of 98.64 physical damage * 1.25 for Death Mark amp gets you 123.3 damage. New Total: 170 True, 378.55 Physical. Now, would that kill a level 1 Lux (Champion with, as best as I can tell, the lowest Effective HP at level 1)? Well, Lux has 11.39 armour, accounting for Dirk's Lethality, which means her effective HP is (490 * 1.1139 =) 545.811. 545.811 - 378.55 = 167.261 HP remaining. Ignite DoT would kill (Yes, I need to convert back because this is effective HP against physical and ignite is true damage, but it kills either way). Barely. I'm not even going to bother doing the math for your precious tanks. They'd be fine. And this calculations were EXTREMELY generous. If I went based solely on your parameters, that Zed combo wouldn't 100-0 literally anyone in the game. To anyone who read this, thank you for your time.
You took my exaggerations of saying he missed everything way too seriously. If he hits one auto, ignite and ult base damage alone would proc electrocute. And missing E is pretty much impossible unless you are seriously bad. Bottom line, your odds of living out of a proper zed ult as a level 6 tank jungler(zed would be level 8 by then if he's just slightly winning lane, 7 if not) Are closer to 0 than to 100. It's enough that he hits some of his spells and you're dead, he doesn't even need to hit a full combo. if he's a head by 1 or 2 kills, you can say goodbye to your health bar no matter even if you spent on your gold on armor up until level 6
: tell me the build. Runes and all. Or do the math. Remember tank items only.
Look, honestly, i could care less whether you agree or not. I've seen it happen a million times.
: Malphite cant 1 shot a carry unless hes building AP. Especially if the carry knows how to itemize.
: This post is directed correctly, but just incorrect in detail. Tanks are not getting one shot, the game is not about one shotting someone before they one shot you. The issue IS that tank items don't scale as well or even have as good base stats. They also largely have no impact on managing the wave or skirmishing (except sunfire, that's literally the only one). The real issue is that tank items just aren't statted well enough to let tanks outsustain which is also due to dogshit passives on those items. Look at what items like DD give to people who can rush it. Good lifesteal, massive healing on all damage, tons of AD, bleed effect, AND cdr. Now look at a typical rush item for a tank: sunfire gives pretty meh stats all around and pretty low damage, basically none of them have cdr except the MR ones which have absolutely horrid stats. Spirit is literally only bought for its healing which is far better on fighters. There really isn't a single "tanky" MR item, they all have pretty low hp. Really only stoneplate helps you tank both kinds of damage while giving you an ok fighting active, but stoneplate is shit first item since there's no hp. There's no logical build path for tank items to try and perform well in lane. You're just buying items to try and get less slapped by basically any matchup. This is also where the top meta issues come in. The tanks should beat the ranged bullies by out-tanking their damage and scaling. However, Dshield got nerfed to crap and is litearlly less efficient and performs worse than just going 3x rejuv bead. Items are the issue yes, but for more reasons than just not making you tanky. Give us even a single tank item that performs well in lane and it will change. Buff thornmail, but don't increase the grievous wounds. Buff ibg by fixing the cost and build path. There's a lot of options honestly.
I slightly disagree, because i used to get oneshot playing tank junglers like amumu sejuani at level 6, where you barely got enough gold to buy some meaningful armor/mr. basically any zed at level 6 will kill both amumu and sejuani with an half assed ult, missed q, missed e, cancelled auto attack, ignite ult base damage and electrocute. So, i don't find that tanky. Tanks should have much much better base stats for the early game until they can actually buy some resistances
EATARI (NA)
: But... the point of a tank, is to be carried. :/ A tank provides a distraction away from the Carry, whether that’s the ADC, Jungler, or Mid, and uses their resistance and resilience to last long enough that the Carry can wipe the enemy team and a push can be made. I’m not the win condition, and that’s okay. But I did my job to lead my team to victory.
1st of all, tanks' purpose isn't to get carried. getting carried is having the game won for you, Meaning, you didn't do the heavy lifting, someone else did. A win condition could be having the tank ccing and disrupting the enemies and have his adc kill them from safety. if the tank didn't do his job, the enemy team would easily kill the adc, and they would've lost the game. In this scenario, the tank did the heavy lifting and essentially carried his team. Win condition is not always the adc.
: Tanks win games. Damage does not.
: Poppy % health dmg on Q Maokai % health dmg on E Mundo (people say isnt even a tank and is more of a bruiser) Volibear execution % health dmg on W Zac % health dmg on W Rammus (i can already hear adc mains crying) Ornn %health dmg on his W proc How many more examples do i need to list?
your entire list is invalidated because none of them can oneshot carries, unlike malphite. btw, mundo is a juggernaut, not a tank and not a bruiser
: Most people know that removing autofill would be silly, but there's a better solution
Oh, easy, everyone just ban support role, back to 40 minutes queue times. Lets not pretend this idea wasn't brought up a million times and for some reason it is being upvoted this time
: "we overnerfed riven"
I took this one for granted.... No surprise here
EATARI (NA)
: Those were two of my worst games with the strat. You fail to mention my 7/1/5 victory, where I got first blood, first tower, 4K healing, and tanked 10K damage, 10% of which was true. Or, what about my 10/6/17 victory, where I took 3 turrets, had 30K healing, and tanked 49K damage. It’s easy to cherry pick games, and I just did it too. If I’m honest, most of my loses are games that went past 30 minutes, and most of my victories were against teams that surrendered at 15-20. I’m not arguing that tanks don’t fall off late. But they don’t fall off hard, and they can have an impact throughout the entire game.
All those games you won, you got carried. Look, i'm not trying to be offensive, but, You are playing normal games. People don't care about winning in normals I've seen plenty of blitzcrank + thresh bot lanes that won purely because people are shit in normals You getting kills as soraka support is meaningless because you probably just took the last hit because soraka doesn't have enough damage to be meaningful, even when built full AP. Lets just say, you weren't the win condition in any of those games.
: look at Zeal items,dude all of them have sub 100% C/E Do you see ADC players cry and ask for buffs? also, you cry about "armor being destroyed" yet, same thing happens with AD ,when going against armor,no? 100 armor HALVES the damage someone does with AA and tanks sure as hell can get 100 armor with 1 item (FH) can ADC players "half " the armor you got with ONE item? no,they actually can't this is a game of counters if you see AD champion,you build Armor if he has no way of countering your armor,then the game is broken if tanks can stack 300+ armor (and they can) to reduce any AD damage by 75% ,then why can't AD champions reduce their armor by mere 25-35%?
listen to me armor is meaningless.
: Um {{item:1051}} gives crit not CDR. The only 400g item that gives CDR is {{item:3301}} . As far as the wiki value, it comes from {{item:3067}} and values it at 26.6 per point of CDR, as far as that goes, simple maths shows is true. So even if you find a cheaper source, CDR would be valued 26.6g or less and {{item:3133}} gold efficienty 103.79% or less. In either cases this still proves my statement that {{item:3133}} and{{item:1037}} isn't as huge of an upgrade as you make it out to be.
Ah shit, i posted the looked at the wrong item Scratch that then
: tank items are not even close to being THAT bad at C/E Frozen Heart -114% C/E WITHOUT the aura Iceborn Gauntlet - 93% C/E without its passive (sheen proc + slow) Deadman's Plate - 80%-105% depending of the passive Randuin's Omen - 85% without its active and BOTH passives (the only reason people are buying these items are the passives,btw) the only reason tanks are bad right now, is the fact,that mage items exist at the cost they have now (cheap protobelt, cheap voidstaff,cheap zhonya's etc)
Dude frozen heart is literally the only item on your list with positive gold value. You understand 85% gold value is fucking trash yeah? The problem with the passives of the item is that they are useless when your armor is destroyed
Kazekiba (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=NewplayerExp LUL,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wp34HGaA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-09-10T14:34:14.287+0000) > > Um not really, yes double long sword would be higher dmg if you went back and didn't have enought money for {{item:1037}} (that's why is a better build path), otherwise {{item:1037}} and {{item:1036}} have the exact same gold efficienty. > And in terms of AD, both {{item:1037}} and {{item:3133}} have the same stat of 25 AD, so no, not really a "huge" buff of an item or damage boost. Tell that to "Best build path in the entire game" Rocket belt getting to build out of a Revolver + Kindlegem.
: Um not really, yes double long sword would be higher dmg if you went back and didn't have enought money for {{item:1037}} (that's why is a better build path), otherwise {{item:1037}} and {{item:1036}} have the exact same gold efficienty. And in terms of AD, both {{item:1037}} and {{item:3133}} have the same stat of 25 AD, so no, not really a "huge" buff of an item or damage boost.
No, warhammer has better gold efficiency, which makes it a better item, And a better build path. ~~Btw, pickaxe is only 85% gold efficient, long sword is 100% gold efficient, so, you are wrong.~~ Edit: Miscalculated it, nvm Warhammer is still a better item than pickaxe valued at 115% gold efficiency
: first of all : they are not "a bit" cheaper if you look at the full cost of tank build and the full cost of,lets say, Jax Build,or Tryndamere build, you will see that overall difference may be 2000-2500 gold that is basically an extra item worth of gold, so why wouldn't a champion with 7 items worth of build beat a champion with 6 items worth of build? second : you've picked the worst Tank item as an example if you put it against the worst AD item (phage) you will notice,that phage is even less cost efficient, yet bruisers are not crying,like tanks do
You seem to not understand. Tank items are cheaper but their gold value is low. It's not like you have 7 items in 6 slots, it's like you have 5 items in 6 slots. If an item costs 2800 gold and his stat value is only 2400, it's a shit item. Phage is a terrific item, btw. His passive is incredibly good, Which boosts his gold value
: Tanks are defintely playable https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3141726426/209420279?tab=overview https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3141706196/209420279?tab=overview https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3141665084/209420279?tab=overview https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3141665084/209420279?tab=overview https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3141633479/209420279?tab=overview
Malphite is one of those "tanks" that has a massive nuke ult and does massive damage soley because his base damage is high af. He is not a good example of the rest of the tanks in the game
: Manamune buildpath/recipe change
This would be a huge buff to the item because{{item:3133}} is a tremendously better item than{{item:1037}} and will allow its users an early damage boost with double long sword instead of waiting for 875 gold for {{item:1037}}
: Thank you riot
Trash company
EATARI (NA)
: I don’t know, I’ve had games where I’ve felt nigh unkillable, running around an enemy champ for a good minute without dying. And that was with Soraka tank. I don’t think tank items are bad, they just don’t let you ignore damage. You still need to respect all-ins, avoid skillshots, and track their cooldowns.
I looked at those games of yours playing tank soraka on op.gg. Once you finished 3/4/2 and lost game, The other you finished 2/6/6 and lost game. Needless to say that those were normal games. It is pretty safe to say those games are not an indication for anything. And can't be used as arguments
: tank items are cheap AF name me a single tank item that costs >3100g you are saying,that a champion, building 5 2800g items should be on par with a champ,that builds 5 3200-3700g items? what kind of "fairness" is this?
you know, they might be a bit cheaper, but their value is A LOT lower. Like support items. They are cheap, but what they give, is not a lot. {{item:3211}} take this item for an example. It's a terrible item. costs 1200, gives almost nothing in value
mack9112 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iZn9Xq9e,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-10T09:01:37.658+0000) > > You made no claims about the topic, you simply started personally attacking me. > > Saying "no man everything is good about the game, you're the problem because you can't play and you suck" > > Is not any claim regarding the topic, nor is that valid discussion > > So, > > No u I literally just gave my opinion :) I made no personal attack just said game was balanced then you shot back BM emojii? If you don’t wanna talk about the game that’s fine but it’s not how you discuss things or create any change in the world.
mack9112 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iZn9Xq9e,comment-id=00040000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-10T08:30:36.800+0000) > > "complaining" > > you seem to not understand what is discussion, opinions, freedom of speech and mind. > I don't even play tanks. > > I am a main adc/support and i feel like discussing matters that i feel are relevant and meaningful. > > I am not "complaining". > > Let me refer you to my previous comment, which answers exactly to the attitude of people like yourself and what you only understand. Your perception is that game is inherently broken and the reason you are held back is because the core of the game is flawed not your own flawed game perception. Game balance is in healthy state with role diversity at an all time high. Games are intense and reward smart gameplay. Defence options are perfectly viable if you understand how to build and counter different champions. A discussion would mean you are open to hearing both sides of the coin but when someone like myself comes along and says the game is in a good spot you immediately BM. Sounds more like rant than discussion to me.
You made no claims about the topic, you simply started personally attacking me. Saying "no man everything is good about the game, you're the problem because you can't play and you suck" Is not any claim regarding the topic, nor is that valid discussion So, No u
: > magic resist is busted against mages Biggest pile of shit ive heard today. Mr is the most useless stat in the entire fucking game. Voidstaff shaves off 40% of your mr for 2650 gold. FORTY PERCENT. AT THE COST CHEAPER OF ANY COMPLETED MR ITEMS.
What you seem to misunderstand is that AD has much, much, much better penetration. lets take an example anti armor team. {{item:3071}} shred 24% out of your armor, for everyone to attack {{item:3036}} then, apply 35% armor pen (which is not too far below AP's 40%, btw) {{item:3147}} {{item:3814}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3134}} continue to penetrate their anus please, oh please. spare me.
mack9112 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iZn9Xq9e,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-10T07:14:12.450+0000) > > no u I mean I recognize I have parts of my gameplay that I need to improve on and hopefully by the end of this season I will reach that goal and with it get my butt into diamond :) What’s your goal? Why don’t you focus on that instead of complaining?
"complaining" you seem to not understand what is discussion, opinions, freedom of speech and mind. I don't even play tanks. I am a main adc/support and i feel like discussing matters that i feel are relevant and meaningful. I am not "complaining". Let me refer you to my previous comment, which answers exactly to the attitude of people like yourself and what you only understand. > [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iZn9Xq9e,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-10T07:14:12.450+0000) > > no u
mack9112 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iZn9Xq9e,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-10T06:38:01.553+0000) > > {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}} I suggest you get better at the game instead of complaining :)
mack9112 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iZn9Xq9e,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-09-09T20:13:49.012+0000) > > I want balance The game is in a healthy spot
{{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
: > [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iZn9Xq9e,comment-id=00140000,timestamp=2019-09-09T20:33:38.884+0000) > > See, when i wrote this post, i wasn't asking for tank meta. > I was asking for balance. > > i expect tanks to not melt in 2 seconds, > yet, i don't want them to be invulnerable. > > ##Balance And they don't. Unless the tank is so far behind that it doesn't even matter what they build or go in a 1v5 suicide engage the tank is never going to die in under 2 seconds.
Lmao, i don't know what game you've been playing, but in the game i am playing, tanks melt in 2 seconds
: Yup, things are better when damage is playing catch-up.
I want balance Neither damage nor defense overwhelming. You seem to think you can only have one or the other. ##B A L A N C E
: Why can't Riot move to a fully transparent MMR ranked system?
I agree so much. i want flat elo too. You start at 0, and climb. 30+ for win, -30 for loss. You have 1500 score, you get matched with 1450-1550. IT'S REALLY, NOT THAT HARD. Many many many many many many games use this type of ladder instead of this idiotic obscure MMR system that is full of shit that is meant to slow your climb.
: "Damage scales harder than defense" no duh? That's always been the case. It's like that on purpose. When they both are equal then you get the whole "only hypercarries and tanks are viable" nonesense which is even more boring and unfun. Tanks will no and should not be immortal no matter how you want them to be. If you want to say that damage outscales defense way to fast and hard then you can have a more reasonable argument.
See, when i wrote this post, i wasn't asking for tank meta. I was asking for balance. i expect tanks to not melt in 2 seconds, yet, i don't want them to be invulnerable. ##Balance
: The problem is that so many bruiser items make them as tanky as tanks. {{item:3053}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3026}} And many bruiser items, also come overcharged with cdr which buff up defensive abilities, such as Jax E and Riven E. {{item:3071}} / {{item:3078}} {{item:3161}} These items give bruisers defensive capabilites/health, and AD.. While tank items only give... tank stats... Tanks need to scale more with tank stats if they want to compete and/or bruiser items need to be revisited.
I highly agree, i also talked about it on some post a while ago. Bruisers are doing better job than actual tanks
: Remember the time Bramble countered Fiora? Yeah, I remember that.
Sadly, i started playing in preseason 8
mack9112 (NA)
: As it should lol what other scenario do you want ? If defence ourscaled then matches would never end
: > [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xGzJuApA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-09T09:49:14.590+0000) > > This actually ridiculous. > This broke no rule It *does* break rules, it's just less "offensive" and more "Absolutely derailing the conversation and refusing to have an actual discussion, instead going 'Nope, I'm not talking to ADC defenders and am instead going to ignore every last point they might make'" Deliberately derailing a conversation is still against the rules.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xGzJuApA,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-09-09T09:55:46.871+0000) > > It *does* break rules, it's just less "offensive" and more "Absolutely derailing the conversation and refusing to have an actual discussion, instead going 'Nope, I'm not talking to ADC defenders and am instead going to ignore every last point they might make'" > > Deliberately derailing a conversation is still against the rules. I disagree. It is not offensive enough to justify removal. I've seen a lot worse. I'd honestly rather mods focused on removing elo shamers and the like of that, Than some mildly disrespectful comments
Diävolo (EUW)
: Mods ffs, this is not offensive or anything
This actually ridiculous. This broke no rule
: Death timers are fine Nexus being easier to kill than a super minion is not fine
This actually so true, that it's sad
Comentários de Rioters
: Riot officially approves of players telling each other to kill themselves.
some random guy on the internet told you to kill yourself.... who cares? let it go.
Dr Poro (EUW)
: Haha you're right, it would be silly if you'd allow mercs to screw up his cc + he needs synergy with Yasuo right cause fuck having a bruiser in your team. I also overlooked his W being another dash. I disgracefully undervalued his kit.
to be precise, his E, applies stun, damage, knockup and more damage. This is why morgana black shield doesn't block his knock up part because it has two different effects one after the other.
Kat XD (NA)
: Playing in Gold be like:
: Have you considered something called roaming? You can actively help them win matchups they're weak in. If you're playing an early game champion that's what you're **supposed** to do.
Roaming? I've had games where i ganked top lane 6 times, gave him 4 kills and he still lost lane and fed his ass off. Don't make me laugh.
: What does mastery level locked mean?
That you haven't reached level 4 yet and you didn't unlock mastery banner/emote
: > [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=wH7MnnaP,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-07T22:23:39.276+0000) > > Here is the perfect example of a low elo guy who thinks that your inflated kda is going to win you games and not how many drakes barons and towers you got > > I've seen people lose games with 32+ kills they must not be very good then if they lost
> [{quoted}](name=Park Bora KR,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=wH7MnnaP,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-09-07T22:35:57.561+0000) > > they must not be very good then if they lost Not very good is an understatement
: Allow people to go next
Just no. People quit playing the game at the 5 minute mark because of this shitty attitude
notkai (NA)
: Slow client and low FPS for seemingly no reason
You probably have game bar background screen recording enabled in the windows settings. Turn off background recording and your game should run a lot better. It's turned on by default in windows 10 for some reason
: remove gold, replace it with KDA
Here is the perfect example of a low elo guy who thinks that your inflated kda is going to win you games and not how many drakes barons and towers you got I've seen people lose games with 32+ kills
Comentários de Rioters
: > [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Azx810qq,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-09-07T17:24:42.990+0000) > > Oh, right, because the biggest difference is that people don't issue bans over language in minecraft servers? > > He wasn't even talking about bans. > What he is suggesting is changing swear words into something else, which is exactly like turning on the language filter which changes your swear word into a several asterikes. hmm. my Assumption was that riot would make it mandatory, and into random words because even with astericks you still know what ***** is because it's 5 letters **** you. 4 letters ****** if it was mandatory, and changed into random fruits, you would have to actively go out of your way to get banned, by trying to bypass the filter with fck, fggt, so on think riot makes it way too easy to get punished. - a chat filter is not a reason to excessively curse, then what's the chat filter for if you can't swear at someone regardless.
Riot doesn't make it too easy to get punished. Just because a language filter exists doesn't mean you are allowed to bad mouth. You said something that deserves a punishment, you get punished. Riot has nothing to do with your decision making.
: Be more active in stopping them from losing lane, and play less selfish champions.
Right, like you can prevent someone from feeding
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JuiceBoxP

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