Ayanleh (EUW)
: A way to return mordekaiser's ghosts in a balanced way, from a 2 mil mastery morde onetrick
Barso55 (NA)
: Mordekaiser is too oppressive right at the start from level 1 and scales really hard
> I played poppy into morde and had a phage and null magic mantle. He had amp tome health crystal and boots. He turret dived me (he was 90% i was 75%) and i got turret stun with E, landed both hits of Q, ignited him, and used r for knockup, all under turret, and the guy escaped with about 10% hp after killing me Clip or it never happened. Because im having difficulties believing a poppy got tower dived, landed stun and r (and ofc her q), and morde flashed to safety after killing her.
EATARI (NA)
: It is when you realize that it scales with total AD, 60% at level 1. Aatrox has 60 AD at level 1. So it’s more like 46 at rank 1 for just Q1 non-sweetspot. So, you actually multiply that number by about 5 if you hit all 3 parts with the sweetspot. It actually does 295 damage at level 1 with NO bonus AD. Not bad base damage if I say so myself. Especially considering that it gains 3 base damage every level up without even ranking it up. Translating to 10 damage for a full combo.
> [{quoted}](name=EATARI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QRy4EbIN,comment-id=000a0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-12T15:02:18.100+0000) > > It is when you realize that it scales with total AD, 60% at level 1. Aatrox has 60 AD at level 1. So it’s more like 46 at rank 1 for just Q1 non-sweetspot. So, you actually multiply that number by about 5 if you hit all 3 parts with the sweetspot. It actually does 295 damage at level 1 with NO bonus AD. Not bad base damage if I say so myself. Especially considering that it gains 3 base damage every level up without even ranking it up. Translating to 10 damage for a full combo. That 295 damage is NOT base then. Thats the total damage. Its base damage is 10 / 30 / 50 / 70 / 90 Also where the fuck did you find that 295? q1=46+50%=79 dmg, q2=57+50%=86 dmg, q3=69+50%=104 damage for a grand total 269 (maximum since i had to round up a lot of numbers). Also that 269 is over a big ass period plus heavily telegraphed.
EATARI (NA)
: That is the main issue, but his high base damage on Q usually helps to get him to that point. I still haven’t decided on runes yet though. I like lethal tempo, but hail of blades might be better for trading in lane and quickly stacking gunsoo’s rageblade.
> [{quoted}](name=EATARI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QRy4EbIN,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2019-09-12T13:54:22.276+0000) > > That is the main issue, but his high base damage on Q usually helps to get him to that point. I still haven’t decided on runes yet though. I like lethal tempo, but hail of blades might be better for trading in lane and quickly stacking gunsoo’s rageblade. High base damage? 10 / 30 / 50 / 70 / 90 is high?
: Annie Should NOT Get Mobility.
I feel like the changes to e will basically repeat the scenario with karthus and dh. Oh man i hope history wont repeat itself.
: AP itemization get reworked, it lacks something
Delete dcap? Excuse me? Mages need alot of ap to contest with the ad counterparts because ad counterparts also have their aa.
: >Oke but not why not during the initial start when you can use your speed boost to reposition your w (since now you heavily rely on that initial 3 second to deal damage)? because that would just be op. if he gets the ms at the end it allows for more counterplay because he's deciding whether to get the ms boost or damage you, not BOTH at the same itme. >How exactly? He cant now shove early on. And his overall dmg got nerfed. If something his early now is shitty. Aurelion sol was bad vs assassins because he couldn't completely get away from them without blowing flash or his r. Now he can W to run away from {{champion:157}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:245}} with like 400 ms. He shoves the same after his first item. This stops his dumb level 2/3 bot lane ganks. Yes, it makes his early game worse because he cant duel anyone as easily, but a champion that can roam as easily as him should not have a good early game to balance out the overall strength of his ganks...other than taliyah but she's her own champion with her own niche.
> because that would just be op. if he gets the ms at the end it allows for more counterplay because he's deciding whether to get the ms boost or damage you, not BOTH at the same itme. Well currently if you try to get close with the boost with your w, will only lead to your ass getting kicked. Unless its late game, getting close without your w is a bad idea. Late game it has low cd. However late game, everyone deals a whole lot more damage than you will ever deal way faster. > Aurelion sol was bad vs assassins because he couldn't completely get away from them without blowing flash or his r. Now he can W to run away from with like 400 ms. No you wont. That speed boost also decays. However this speed boost helps vs immobile champs. Champs like yasuo and kata still beat your ass and you cant get away. Multiple dashes > a mediocre speedboost. > Yes, it makes his early game worse because he cant duel anyone as easily, but a champion that can roam as easily as him should not have a good early game to balance out the overall strength of his ganks Then whats the point of picking him? He is an early champ (or rather now mid?) not a late game. Just played a game where i reached late game. I tried my best but alas i couldnt deal enough damage. The enemy zilean and ezreal were spamming their q (and w in the case of ez) and one hit of them would sent me to fountain. I just couldnt stay around for my stars to deal dmg. And my stun well, is as good as 0.75 can be.
: >Movement speed. After they collapse. The intended playstyle is just spam W so you get the ms to catch up or run away depending on the situation. The cooldown is like 2 seconds when maxed without CDR, so a lategame sol is basically the old one but more mana hungry and faster. This change also makes his matchup against assassins better. He still can't 100-0 someone as fast as lux or syndra can. If anything, this opens up more build paths and makes him more consistent instead of completely stomping 50% of matchups and not being able to do anything in the other 50%.
> The intended playstyle is just spam W so you get the ms to catch up or run away depending on the situation. Oke but not why not during the initial start when you can use your speed boost to reposition your w (since now you heavily rely on that initial 3 second to deal damage)? > This change also makes his matchup against assassins better How exactly? He cant now shove early on. And his overall dmg got nerfed. If something his early now is shitty.
: What are some ways to negate Pyke's power?
Actually nothing. You hope he is bad or/and makes a mistake.
: Aurelion Sol Changes are garbage.
The changes in w are ridiculously bad . Why. He gains. Movement speed. After they collapse. Its so stupid if you think about it. Normally you would use the speed buff to reposition your stars, but once they collapse they arent worth to reposition. The speed buff seems like a gimmick just to help him disengage. A trait that usually is found in assassins not mages. And ofc, the cd seems to push him towards a burst mage and less towards a sustained damage mage. Sure late game the cd is low enough. But still, it promotes burst over sustain damage.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: Let's talk: Champ Diversity
Jokes on you, i dont want champ diversity. Its much more difficult to balance it. As for counterpicking, soft ones are cool and frankly a must. Hard ones, suck ass. Especially when you are first pick. These can go to hell.
Koiyaki (NA)
: See imo, games only seem done at 5 mins...cuz people have lost the will to actually trudge through games, and i dont think that fully ritos fault. Average game time would last longer than 20-25 mins if people weren't saying gg after they die 2 times at 6 mins or spamming ff at 15 as soo as they get the chance. And even when ffs are cancelled the people asking for ffs either afk or, even if they choose to play, have a bad taste in their mouth and are subconsciously thinking the match is already over and it will negatively impact their gameplay...thus making a game end sooner. It=s a mental problem more than a game state problem. People are so jaded with rito (for both good and bad reasons) and would rather just take easy wins than playing nonsense out, no matter the elo. But thats just my 2 cents as a late season 2 vet...but meh, what do i know.
> [{quoted}](name=Koiyaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=56bleUam,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-26T07:33:06.485+0000) > > See imo, games only seem done at 5 mins...cuz people have lost the will to actually trudge through games, and i dont think that fully ritos fault. > > Average game time would last longer than 20-25 mins if people weren't saying gg after they die 2 times at 6 mins or spamming ff at 15 as soo as they get the chance. And even when ffs are cancelled the people asking for ffs either afk or, even if they choose to play, have a bad taste in their mouth and are subconsciously thinking the match is already over and it will negatively impact their gameplay...thus making a game end sooner. > > It=s a mental problem more than a game state problem. > > People are so jaded with rito (for both good and bad reasons) and would rather just take easy wins than playing nonsense out, no matter the elo. > > But thats just my 2 cents as a late season 2 vet...but meh, what do i know. Do you know why people have weak mentality? Because riot's philosophy. You see, why should i try to play a game where the enemy jax has 4-5 kills because of my teammates, when the game has one of the shittiest comeback mechanics, i have to play perfectly and the enemy has to make a lot of mistakes. Like all someone (or rather most) has to do is get a kill and they can snowball with ease. Turrets dont help, wards only warn you, like yeah you can evade death but does it really matter when you will be forced to concede turret exp and gold? Falling behind has been never more dangerous than it currently is just because of how fast the game advances (gold income, turret's durability, minions damage and speed).
Zeyphel (NA)
: Better question, what is an assasin doing with an AoE stun Ult?
> [{quoted}](name=Zeyphel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EzpnWa9l,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-08-23T15:15:46.109+0000) > > Better question, what is an assasin doing with an AoE stun Ult? Just rito james stuff.
Snowbrand (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Nyarlathοtep,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aNLo3j6e,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-08-22T14:51:13.097+0000) > > Not really. If you look closely and slowly its clear as a day that her e deals a lot more damage than it should. > > As for calling it poorly played by malz, not really. > > (1st death) All he did was go to cs with his aa (he cant only farm with his spells), qiyana dashes (point and click). Dodging her q from that range is quite difficult on a immobile champ. Not really poorly on malz part. He couldnt do anything (as far as we know). > > His second death is pretty much the same. She dashes on top of him deals shit load of damage, at that range again dodging q is quite difficult. > > Now that i saw this i firmly believe she needs some early base dmg nerfs. Bursting a mage with a passive that reduces all damage by 90% means that that champion overkills a lot. Her E deals little dmg and makes it like malz is playing without his passive up. Then she use her full rotation. Edit: also it is a missplay walking up to cs that minion. You give up cs if you are against a stronger champ.
Not really. Her e scale 70 / 105 / 140 / 175 / 210 (+ 70% bonus AD). Hardly from little damage. Especially when you realise its both empowered by her passive and e, granting additional 8+15 (and a bunch of ratios) bonus damage. Said bonuses are also reset once she presses w. Also if you look carefully at the clip, malz is getting chunked by her e despite having his passive up.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: No, I did watch, she E, AA, Q, AA, WQ, Ignite with AA in between, I watched it on 0.5x just to make sure. It's all normal working as intended. Her E busted his passive, she then AA, that's where the "extra damage" went from. If you watch it at much lower speed, you'll notice there's a very small hit on the HP first, then another one before she combos. She just played it perfectly by the book to the letter. Also, what I mean with misplays, let's start with the 2nd one, since obviously that's the most obvious one: - He knows she can 1 shot him, yet he goes past the minion wave to try and stop her back. That is a mistake, a really big one, he just went to hand her a free kill for no reason other than "I want to die", he could do nothing to her at that point, so why even try? Just farm the wave. Now back to the 1st one. That's a little less obvious, but it's a huge mistake. She's an assassin, he's a squishy mage, he didn't tether her (tethering is when you keep a fixed distance to the enemy when you have nothing to use on them or the wave, which he didn't, we can see in the replay). He should've gave up on that creep, but he greeded for it. There was no reason to go CLOSE to her and take that creep. Any other assassin would've chunked him hard but not kill him due to their initiation spell being blocked, but since her kill combo doesn't use E, it's just a mobility spell (think of Jax's Q), she had more available damage than the rest. Qiyana counters Malz who doesn't know how to respect. Those are basic mistakes that don't look as mistakes to the untrained eye, or circle jerkers, or the enemy team, as apparently I'm not allowed to blame the Zed and Rengar who rage quit, as they are useful to the enemy team....
> No, I did watch, she E, AA, Q, AA, WQ, Ignite with AA in between, I watched it on 0.5x just to make sure. It's all normal working as intended. Her E busted his passive, she then AA, Indeed. However the moment she dashes on top of him, we clearly see his health bar getting a considerable chunk (90% dmg reduction). Im talking about the moment the dash touched malz. There does follow an aa after this, however by that time malz's passive was down. > Also, what I mean with misplays, let's start with the 2nd one, since obviously that's the most obvious one: - He knows she can 1 shot him, yet he goes past the minion wave to try and stop her back. Maybe. However he wanted to maximize his tp advantage. > Just farm the wave. And do what? Now im not a qiyana expert hell i havent even seen much play with her. However im not that clueless. I can understand how late game goes for her (or actually imagine). She isnt a talon or zed where they are pure damage. She brings very strong utility. Utility that even someone like ekko drools over. While not spammable by any means, her q can snare someone rather frequently thanks to her w resetting her q cd. Both fall to around 4 sec with 45% cdr. The cc duration isnt that large, however the range is deceptively high. In addition to that after the snare expires there is a small slow for whatever reason. (something that i dont remember, is the snare single target?) And then there is her stupid ass ulti. This shit provides almost everything a champ wants. Peel? Check. Cc (albeit a bit conditional)? Check. Damage? Check. And all that in a cd of 120-80. Even the push distance is large. The radius effect of damage is also quite big. Its like a chogath-like distance actually. Malzhar on the other side doesnt bring all that much to a late game fight. His cc is average at best, a single target suppression and aoe silence. Compared to qiyana, a single target (maybe?) snare and an aoe knock back that can lead to an aoe stun. Malz just doesnt scale that well to late game compared to qiyana. > She's an assassin, he's a squishy mage, he didn't tether her (tethering is when you keep a fixed distance to the enemy when you have nothing to use on them or the wave, which he didn't, we can see in the replay). He should've gave up on that creep, but he greeded for it You are right. He shouldnt. He can just fine give up that cs. But how many can he give up before he falls behind? I would do the same mistake probably because i dont expect qiyana to hurt that much ( an assassin that is mobile and has cc should have less dmg than cc-less assassins). > Any other assassin would've chunked him hard but not kill him due to their initiation spell being blocked, but since her kill combo doesn't use E, On first sight qiyana has normal amount of damage now that i look at her numbers. Just look at them, Q, 80 / 100 / 120 / 140 / 160 (+ 90% bonus AD)/ empowered Q, 128 / 160 / 192 / 224 / 256 (+ 144% bonus AD). E, 70 / 105 / 140 / 175 / 210 (+ 70% bonus AD). That is until you look at her passive and w. Passive, 15 − 83 (based on level) (+ 55% bonus AD) (+ 30% AP) bonus physical damage W (passive effect) 8 / 16 / 24 / 32 / 40 (+ 20% bonus AD) (+ 30% AP) bonus magic damage. This actually explains why she dealt so much damage. And these bonuses are regained each time she picks up a new element. > Qiyana counters Malz who doesn't know how to respect I dont think this is true. Actually it could be the reverse of what i earlier said. Now remember when i said that malz shouldnt stall vs her? Well apparently malz could be the one countering her. https://eune.op.gg/champion/malzahar/statistics/mid https://u.gg/lol/champions/malzahar/matchups > Those are basic mistakes that don't look as mistakes to the untrained eye, or circle jerkers, or the enemy team, Oh please keep this attitude out of here.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: It's not her dash that deals the damage. Malz passive blocks the dash damage, her Water Q applies the passive, which just a decent bit of damage (around 20 level 3), then she AA, reset passive and Q with W by grabbing Wall, and Wall Q deals extra damage when the enemy is bellow 50% hp. But then again, those are poorly played by Malzahar as well, so....
> [{quoted}](name=Rylalei,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aNLo3j6e,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-08-22T13:48:41.019+0000) > > It's not her dash that deals the damage. > > Malz passive blocks the dash damage, her Water Q applies the passive, which just a decent bit of damage (around 20 level 3), then she AA, reset passive and Q with W by grabbing Wall, and Wall Q deals extra damage when the enemy is bellow 50% hp. > > But then again, those are poorly played by Malzahar as well, so.... Not really. If you look closely and slowly its clear as a day that her e deals a lot more damage than it should. As for calling it poorly played by malz, not really. (1st death) All he did was go to cs with his aa (he cant only farm with his spells), qiyana dashes (point and click). Dodging her q from that range is quite difficult on a immobile champ. Not really poorly on malz part. He couldnt do anything (as far as we know). His second death is pretty much the same. She dashes on top of him deals shit load of damage, at that range again dodging q is quite difficult. Now that i saw this i firmly believe she needs some early base dmg nerfs. Bursting a mage with a passive that reduces all damage by 90% means that that champion overkills a lot.
Antenora (EUW)
: > Meanwhile I'm killing nearly all my brain cells to try to poke her down to 50%, only to get caught up once and be insta-gibbed. "cells" You only need 1 to play Malzahar.
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aNLo3j6e,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-08-22T09:44:26.147+0000) > > "cells" > > You only need 1 to play Malzahar. His e has gotten nerfed. As such poking alone with e doesnt really work that much. Poking with q is difficult when your opponent is on the move.
: Qiyana insta-gibbed me twice @ lv3 within a minute, I love this damage creep meta so much man
Huh very weird actually. Why the fuck she deals so much damage to you? Your passive reduces damage by 90%. Its not normal for her dash to deal so much damage.
: > [{quoted}](name=Nyarlathοtep,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cNbWKABX,comment-id=000500000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-19T22:57:32.504+0000) > > Time to burn some shit. > > Syndra q-e equals to 553+141% magic damage. Assuming syndra has ludens morello dcap and sorc boots for a grand total of 420 ap. Assuming her q e hits an ashe (no mr), she will deal 628 (q) + 517 (e) = 1145 magic damage. Ludens increase this to 1287. Electrocute increase this between 1422-1572 magic damage (depending on level ofc). 1572 thats actually quite a lot HOWEVER. This doesnt take into consideration mr and the build that ashe has. We can expect the adc to pick an mr item in response to a strong burst mage like syndra. I did explicitly state "glass cannon", someone building resistances is not one. > However i will spare making more calculations because syndra CANT kill ashe. And here's why. Ashe will have to be 14 level or under that in order for her to die. And this is based when she has no mr. At level 14 her max hp is 1566. Period, the syndra that you speak off cant kill an ashe unless that ashe is under lvl 14. You are indeed correct that she´d survive a Q-E, albeit with very little health left.......suppose i´d have to replace the E with Sydra´s W instead? Scales better and does a little true damage at max rank. > As for xerath, why do you talk when you know jack shit nothing? You literally have 1 ranked game with xerath. So why do you bring him when you dont know him? His q definitely hurts being 240+75% magic damage. and we can assume he deals a little over what our syndra above dealt. However at a higher mana cost and way bigger timespan. And way easier to evade it. Ranked games is hardly a necessary requirement for knowing what a champ can do to some extent. His Q does indeed do more damage per hit but at the same time the increased delay lets even a marksman with weak lifesteal manage more easily against him,,,,,same as how they´d deal with say Brand or zyra botlane. > Most of the times yeah this is what happens. But the mage be damned if the adc survived. They will be back to full hp by the time the cds are back. Some fairness is needed, if the marksman has a rather high chance of taking possibly fatal damage from twice or thrice their own range then there has to be something in it for them. > Coordinated fight? Maybe between premades. In soloq (and normals) communication is hard to come by. Pings dont suffice in high tension moments. And even then most of the times, people cant cooperate with strangers. Sometimes its tilt and another times is because people literally cant communicate. Or rather they refuse to hear each other. I am certainly not responsible for your bad experiences <.< > They cant do that. They have to keep their mana to farm. AND BTW both of them will run out of mana before vayne does (at least early). Also her q has lower cd than theirs. I meant for teamfights that, i dont think they stand a rats ass in beating Vayne 1v1........2v2 might be possible depending on the "supports". > In order to kill someone alone he has to land his w, aka his target must be incapable of moving. And even then he has to use his ulti. And once its down, a veigar is half as dangerous UNLIKE vayne and her +400(after armour) aa. Seriously depends on how well things have gone for him, if he has managed to farm and stack his Q then just Q-R seriously wipes the floor with any poor fellow in his way...... I´ve seen this happen often enough, and to add salt to the wounds his W actually gains projectile speed as he stacks his AP passive. > Or she just leaves the cage before its formed. You know that 0.5 second delay. Not possible if he centers it on her, trust me i´ve tried, cleanse or flash is the only way if he gets that far up. > No ofc its not. Hence me not including her ulti. That shit is too strong for its cd. Even if it was 80 seconds.........later on she kills you with it, you go into a 30-40 seconds respawn, take 15-20 seconds to go back to the map then 20 seconds later you basically die again. From high range. > Welcome to damage creep. Do you want to know why a single cc leads to almost always death? Because this > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQOLtqdwYEA Bruh a vid with the first clip being a showcase of one side just missing almost every single important shot they could. getting seperated and chased down as such is not impressive. Heck had that Syndra landed 1 Q-R she´d have either killed or forced Vayne to run for her dear life. > (first clip especially) because of her mobility she avoids a decent amount of damage. The damage that she takes though is healed steadily but surely. Because of this riot started buffing damage so that hard cc the enemy vayne (or yasuo or whoever is dashing around like a madman) is the most efficient way of dealing with them. That clip is a virtually a textbook example of how to not handle Vayne. I am seriously very sure an Irelia/akali or Yasou could have done something very similar, Possibly Ahri as well if she had the damage to kill Jax. > Fair mention the clip at 1:08, if she had gotten caught by that morgana q she (imo) would have died 9 times out of 10. Because as we saw, because of her mobility she was able to deal damage despite her being close range. The enemy just couldnt get close to her. The overwhelming problem for most of the clips in that video was the case of using a slegehammer powerslam trying to put a tiny nail in a similarly thin wooden board.....naturally you just end up screwing shit up badly instead of actually accomplishing your task. A perfect illustation of this that anyone could understand is 1:52, a braum and a lux try to run down a fed Vayne but neither actually has anything that is good against her....heck Braum didnt even have ult and lux missed her Q. This ontop of vayne having stacked rageblade before too. > Also another reason is things like jinx. Jinx has a very strong teamfight because of her aoe critcal. Because of this she gets to deal high damage to at least 3 targets and god help you if her passive procs. CC is rarely a threat to Jinx with her long range, her issue is instead assassins more often than not. > Last but not least, yi. His best counter is hard cc him literally to death because you cant deal with his barrage of true damage. CC? Yi? True damage? Didnt he lose most of his true damage compared to before? Furthermore didnt they basically buff his Q so you cant actually hit him with projectile stuff unless you time it really well when he is like Q'ing on someone else. > In the end, 1 hard cc= death because hyper carries (and other similar stuff) just have to die fast because otherwise they are a big pain in the arse. Just like how you have to end early a game vs vayne (usually). I mean try facing a late game yi when your only hard cc is silence a vel koz e, and a darius e. Good luck killing him. Ending early vs Vayne is a bullshit strategy that usually doesnt even have a shot at working.....because she is actually strong enough in lane that she can survive pretty easily if she plays well and isnt hardcountered to oblivion. Hells she straight up wrecks some matchups right from like lvl 3 onwards, even as a lategame scaling carry. > They also get tools to help them that. Kaisa has her e and a big ass ulti, something that most tanks would kill to have. Vayne has spammable q that during her ulti is also a very strong reposition tool. I´d hold the two of them seperate to be honest, for although similar at a glance it is very well worth noting that kai´sa only has a single use of her R and ......some CD on her E at least between casts, even later. Vayne is in a completely different league in regards to mobility. .....and to be honest i basically think you have to have something pretty obnoxious exactly like a Syndra/veigar/Vlad late to have a good shot at dealing with her late on. Her damage and mobility needs no intruduction but at the same time she pays the price of dying very quickly if she starts taking hits which is why she often struggles in high elo&proplay when not overbuffed.
> I did explicitly state "glass cannon", someone building resistances is not one. *sigh* w/e im not going to argue over the term glass cannon. However still my calculation worked without mr. Aka even with no mr syndra cant q e an ashe unless she is <14 level. > You are indeed correct that she´d survive a Q-E, albeit with very little health left.......suppose i´d have to replace the E with Sydra´s W instead? Scales better and does a little true damage at max rank. Nah the damage increase would be minimal considering w does have a better scaling, however total damage is 276+84%. Not much higher than e 265+60%. > Some fairness is needed, if the marksman has a rather high chance of taking possibly fatal damage from twice or thrice their own range then there has to be something in it for them. I mean yeah. He doesnt have more chances of taking fatal damage. However they do scale far better than other classes. They are supposed to get killed easily. Thus the need to get babysitted. Their exchange in being (or at least in theory) easy to kill is that they outscale the other classes very hard. > I am certainly not responsible for your bad experiences <.< You cant make a champion weak to coordinated play. Playing with strangers means that you have no way too properly communicate, form a plan and make quick calls. When you play with strangers you cant cooperate as you would if you were premade. > I meant for teamfights that, i dont think they stand a rats ass in beating Vayne 1v1........2v2 might be possible depending on the "supports". Oke true but still. A vayne spams q always. A mage forcing her to q is stupid because she would q anyways. > just Q-R seriously wipes the floor with any poor fellow in his way...... Yeah but he has to reach very very late. Turrets during that time will fall like wet tissues before minions. > and to add salt to the wounds his W actually gains projectile speed as he stacks his AP passive. You mean the cd gets lower per 50 stacks. Which is balanced out by the fact that ranking it up doesnt reduce its cd. At max it falls at around 4 seconds. > Not possible if he centers it on her, trust me i´ve tried, cleanse or flash is the only way if he gets that far up. Well shit we arent machines. You cant aim at 100% centre (especially when they are constantly moving). > Even if it was 80 seconds.........later on she kills you with it, you go into a 30-40 seconds respawn, take 15-20 seconds to go back to the map then 20 seconds later you basically die again. Then dodge her evadable q? I mean shit man its AVOIDABLE. Stop getting hit simple enough. > Bruh a vid with the first clip being a showcase of one side just missing almost every single important shot they could. getting seperated and chased down as such is not impressive. My point was showcasing what prompted damage creep (that and riot wanting for games to end faster). > CC is rarely a threat to Jinx with her long range, her issue is instead assassins more often than not. Maybe. But still, getting hit by a anivia q will still be her death (most of the times). > Didnt he lose most of his true damage compared to before? Furthermore didnt they basically buff his Q so you cant actually hit him with projectile stuff unless you time it really well when he is like Q'ing on someone else. No he didnt. And he is invulnerable and untargetable during his q. > Ending early vs Vayne is a bullshit strategy that usually doesnt even have a shot at working.....because she is actually strong enough in lane that she can survive pretty easily if she plays well and isnt hardcountered to oblivion. Hells she straight up wrecks some matchups right from like lvl 3 onwards, even as a lategame scaling carry. Why indeed. However nevertheless vayne remains extremely strong late game. As such stopping her from reaching it is the best course of action. > I´d hold the two of them seperate to be honest, for although similar at a glance it is very well worth noting that kai´sa only has a single use of her R and ......some CD on her E at least between casts, even later. Her ulti also repositions her. And her cd on e gets lowered per aa. And she buys some cdr. > Her damage and mobility needs no intruduction but at the same time she pays the price of dying very quickly if she starts taking hits which is why she often struggles in high elo&proplay when not overbuffed. She struggles? Excuse me? https://u.gg/lol/champions/vayne/build?rank=diamond_plus 50% winrate. Dont talk if you dont know please.
: Yes, 39 games in challenger is enough of a sample size. That's exactly how statistics works. Good job! On a serious note, his winrate is 50% in master+ (plus, including challenger). He is fine for such a simple champ.
> [{quoted}](name=HopeStartsWithU,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zEBycTwt,comment-id=000300040000,timestamp=2019-08-20T15:32:07.535+0000) > > Yes, 39 games in challenger is enough of a sample size. That's exactly how statistics works. Good job! > > On a serious note, his winrate is 50% in master+ (plus, including challenger). He is fine for such a simple champ. Oh lol i didnt know u.gg has the sample size too. Oh well my point was that, just because someone has low winrate doesnt mean he needs buffs. In addition to that the sample size in both masters and grandmasters is below 700. And that seems pretty small tbh. 46% winrate for a champ that is supposedly difficult to master he seems pretty good.
: https://u.gg/lol/champions/yasuo/build?rank=master_plus https://u.gg/lol/champions/yasuo/build?rank=diamond_plus Stat-wise he could need a buff. If we really wanna see him ingame more tho that's another question.
> [{quoted}](name=HopeStartsWithU,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zEBycTwt,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-08-20T11:54:27.854+0000) > > https://u.gg/lol/champions/yasuo/build?rank=master_plus > https://u.gg/lol/champions/yasuo/build?rank=diamond_plus > > Stat-wise he could need a buff. If we really wanna see him ingame more tho that's another question. If you buff someone like yasuo, then might as well buff someone like xerath too. https://u.gg/lol/champions/xerath/build?rank=challenger
HàrrowR (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Nyarlathοtep,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QdlvdxAw,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-08-19T18:48:48.983+0000) > > Hp makes you beefy. Since it doesnt reduce damage all it does is increase a tiny little bit the amount of punishment you can take. There is a reason why frozen heart is hardly bought. In order to be tanky you need both resistances and hp. Frozen heart provides only armour. Likewise, mage items do indeed provide some hp. But you need substantial armour in order to make use of its hp. Well i believe you're confused about the role of the mage. They're not tanks, they're not bruisers and they're not juggernauts. Believe me i know what you're talking about, i'm an ADC main, i hate being squishy, i hate getting one shot but that doesn't change the fact that i can't be a 3k hp 200 armor/mr bruiser while still dishing out high DPS from range. Let's see what mages do and what do they have in their arsenal: 1. CC- most mages if not all have CC, this alone makes them a tougher target to take on and gives them a lot of utility in the game. {{champion:103}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:518}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:142}} etc. can end a dive/gank/fight with one ability, this obviously already makes them harder to kill. 2. Range- Although in League of Mobility you can argue that range doesn't do you much when you have things like {{champion:238}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:39}} etc. that can close the gap easy, but still in a lot of scenarios this range can help you stay safe, whether its behind turrets,teammates or just by keeping the enemy at bay. 3. Burst- A lot of mages can one shot squishies with one rotation, some don't even need to ult to do that, this again increases their surviveability by simply letting them kill the enemy quicker or just the threat of doing it can be a deterrent. 4. In-built defenses - Again a lot of mages, not all, have some sort of mechanic that helps them survive longer {{champion:103}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:518}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:112}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:90}} ,shields, sustain, steroids, mobility or even straight up invulnerability. There's a lot of damage in the game that's for sure, but i wouldn't say mages are at all squishy or easy to kill, "In order to be tanky you need both resistances and hp" you can't have it both ways, if you're tanky you're not dealing a lot of damage and vice-versa. On the side note, you don't have to build full damage and some mages like {{champion:50}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:8}} are a lot more tankier than others + shields/sustain. Hell if you're bothered so much by getting killed build this {{item:3020}} {{item:3040}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3027}} , that's way over 3k hp with armor, stasis and a beefy shield, you're harder to kill but deal less damage, this is essentially what you're asking for.
> Well i believe you're confused about the role of the mage. They're not tanks, they're not bruisers and they're not juggernauts. Believe me i know what you're talking about, i'm an ADC main, i hate being squishy, i hate getting one shot but that doesn't change the fact that i can't be a 3k hp 200 armor/mr bruiser while still dishing out high DPS from range. I dont want them to be tanks. However a 3k hp mage is NOT durable. A 400 aa from an adc is going to hurt. Adcs on the other hand have a lot of items that give resistances while offering damage (maw, scimitar, ga, dd). Couple them with some lifesteal and they can endure a surprisingly amount of damage. Sure a syndra will kill her target most likely even with those items. But not all mages have her burst capabilities. > CC- most mages if not all have CC, this alone makes them a tougher target to take on and gives them a lot of utility in the game. etc. can end a dive/gank/fight with one ability, this obviously already makes them harder to kill. Dont lump xerath with the rest of them. Ahri has a very strong hard cc capable of canceling dashes. Annie has a very strong stun that can also become aoe. Cass has aoe ground, aoe slow and sometimes aoe stun. Neeko has aoe snare and aoe stun and both of them are quite long. Zoe has her sleep both high duration and capable of stopping dashes. In addition to that whatever her w picks up. Xerath has a slow that in the centre is strong and a stun that scales with distance. On average you get 1.4 stun. Landing long range e requires a lot of preparation both from you and your teammates. Xerath has shitty cc. > Range- Although in League of Mobility you can argue that range doesn't do you much when you have things like etc. that can close the gap easy, but still in a lot of scenarios this range can help you stay safe, whether its behind turrets,teammates or just by keeping the enemy at bay. Yeah no. As someone that has played a lot xerath, no you arent safe. Hell the times i died is because i just cant get away from danger. And planning to not get close is impossible when zed, akali, yasuo, lb, fizz, talon, kassadin all need to dash once in order for you to be within their threat radius. Hell look at some stats. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/xerath average deaths 5.3 https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/fizz average deaths 5.8 (melee btw). https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/leblanc average deaths 5.3 https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/kassadin average deaths 5.3 (melee btw). https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/shaco average deaths 5.8 (melee btw). https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/ziggs average deaths 5.8 The days when range meant safety are a thing of the past. Hell even the most popular assassins, like zed and akali only have 1.0 more average deaths. Thats insanely low for such popular champs. > Burst- A lot of mages can one shot squishies with one rotation, some don't even need to ult to do that, this again increases their surviveability by simply letting them kill the enemy quicker or just the threat of doing it can be a deterrent. Damage creep. You either kill the enemy hyper carry fast or he roflstomps you and your team. > In-built defenses - Again a lot of mages, not all, have some sort of mechanic that helps them survive longer ,shields, sustain, steroids, mobility or even straight up invulnerability. My god do you even know the difference between mage and assassin? Ekko and kassadin are not mages. The former does have hard cc however he has enough mobility to actually classify an assassin. Kassadin lacks hard cc and has more than enough mobility to be an assassin. Moving on, Ahri is an abomination. She is a hybrid between a mage and assassin. Cass lacks the burst of other mages. She is all about sustain damage. And because her range is small, she needs some form of sustain so she doesnt die immediately. Thus her e giving her hp. Lux while she has range, her cc is average for a mage (up to 2 snared targets). So her utility is complimented by her shielding (that can also miss). This ofc applies to orianna too (minus the range part). Neeko has her shield in ulti because she will be close to hugging the enemy. Without some form of defence she would die before her r deals any damage. Ryze is like cass. However he has better burst and no way to innately defend himself. Swain and vlad are the drain tank mages. They are close range (swain has to practically melee in order for his q to hurt) and as such need a way to keep themselves healthy to function. (although vlad has late game strong ratios, strong enough to burst hard someone, aka just rito things) Viktor has medium range. Because of this he is expected to take damage. His shield is there to reduce some damage coming his way. Malzahar's passive, im not gonna lie, has no purpose in this game. Just rito things. > On the side note, you don't have to build full damage and some mages like are a lot more tankier than others + shields/sustain. Who builds both seraphs and roa nowadays (excluding anivia)? And even then this items need to scale. Aka plenty of time to beat them to the ground while they dont provide much.
: > [{quoted}](name=Nyarlathοtep,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cNbWKABX,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-19T18:17:59.129+0000) > > Yeah clip or it didnt happen. Unless your target was horrendously behind you cant kill anyone with only 2 spells. Electrolute+luden+magic pen+rabadon Q-E from Syndra kills glass cannons just like that later on, Some like Xer get very close with just 2 q´s as well. Ask any LB, Nami, Sona or Ashe player about it..-.....no resistance?Instant death when hit by 2+ spells. > And higher mana costs. Aka, said pro has a con. > > Eh it depends. For example you get snared by lux and she unloads her kit. You can in theory fight back and if anyone is around you can aa and lifesteal. ,,,,,Either you wont have the AD/crit to make the lifesteal relevant when she hits you or she will have morello and thus negate your lifesteal to the point where you wont heal enough anyway. Lux burst does a shitton of damage when she lands the entire thing. > Vs vayne you arent supposed to stall. I mean she is a hyper carry. Sure veigar has strong late too. But it cant rival vayne's. Vel has even more trouble because of how low are his ratios (his q has a good at 80%, however his w has 40% max, his e 30% and his ulti 12.5% per tick of damage). You could argue that both veig and vel provide cc, but death is the best cc. Oh in case you doubt these champ's winrates, https://eune.op.gg/champion/veigar/statistics/mid https://eune.op.gg/champion/velkoz/statistics/mid https://eune.op.gg/champion/vayne/statistics/adc Stalling against Vayne is actually perfectly viable if you cant beat her 1v1 or in a 2v2 but can do so in a coordinated teamfight. Neither Vel nor veigar has to 1v1 her, just tossing down their spells to burn her mobility is sufficient to greatly reduce her threat. > Neither is veigar. His only aoe is w and dont get me wrong it hurts, veigar remains an average teamfighter. But still you are underestamating vayne's 5v5. Sure she can only affect 1 champ at a time. But thats all it takes for her to win a fight. One at a time. Her r provides more than enough buffs to make her a monster. And her q makes sure she will always deal a lot of damage per aa. God help you if she lands 3 consecutive hits . Veigar is a very good teamfighter just based on his E.......being able to basically kill almost any one target of choice later doesnt hurt either, and he can directly screw an ulting vayne unless she has cleanse .,,,,which means she has used it and Veig´s team can lock her down if she is that close. > Ok so here's a popular mage. > Lux, q : 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 > w: 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 > e: 10 / 9.5 / 9 / 8.5 / 8 > (i excluded her ulti because that shit has no reason to have such a low cd) Even if lux had like 60 seconds CD on her ult....you tell me, is that a long cooldown for something that when used well is assuredly going to send someone back to the respawn when combined with her 9 sec CD Q? > Are these short? 9 seconds on a hard cc. I mean if that seems low, then wtf do you want mages to be? A rotation per 12 second? While adcs, fighters and skirmishers have a threat uptime close to always? Because if you want mages to have longer cds then you should buff them accordingly. Like their damage or hard cc. However this would increase the damage and cc creep that exists in the game. Doesnt matter how much DPS you´ve got if you die instantly because you got hit by 1 piece of CC that started a combo. .......damage is only good when you live to use it which is why the best marksmen in teamfights are those like Twitch/jinx or even Tristana who sit really damn far away being completely unreachable while still doing a lot of damage. Kai´sa? Vayne? Far riskier to play and much easier to knock out of a fight when even.....after all at least they are in range to be hit.
> Electrolute+luden+magic pen+rabadon Q-E from Syndra kills glass cannons just like that later on, Some like Xer get very close with just 2 q´s as well. Time to burn some shit. Syndra q-e equals to 553+141% magic damage. Assuming syndra has ludens morello dcap and sorc boots for a grand total of 420 ap. Assuming her q e hits an ashe (no mr), she will deal 628 (q) + 517 (e) = 1145 magic damage. Ludens increase this to 1287. Electrocute increase this between 1422-1572 magic damage (depending on level ofc). 1572 thats actually quite a lot HOWEVER. This doesnt take into consideration mr and the build that ashe has. We can expect the adc to pick an mr item in response to a strong burst mage like syndra. However i will spare making more calculations because syndra CANT kill ashe. And here's why. Ashe will have to be 14 level or under that in order for her to die. And this is based when she has no mr. At level 14 her max hp is 1566. Period, the syndra that you speak off cant kill an ashe unless that ashe is under lvl 14. As for xerath, why do you talk when you know jack shit nothing? You literally have 1 ranked game with xerath. So why do you bring him when you dont know him? His q definitely hurts being 240+75% magic damage. and we can assume he deals a little over what our syndra above dealt. However at a higher mana cost and way bigger timespan. And way easier to evade it. > ,Either you wont have the AD/crit to make the lifesteal relevant when she hits you or she will have morello and thus negate your lifesteal to the point where you wont heal enough anyway. Most of the times yeah this is what happens. But the mage be damned if the adc survived. They will be back to full hp by the time the cds are back. > Stalling against Vayne is actually perfectly viable if you cant beat her 1v1 or in a 2v2 but can do so in a coordinated teamfight Coordinated fight? Maybe between premades. In soloq (and normals) communication is hard to come by. Pings dont suffice in high tension moments. And even then most of the times, people cant cooperate with strangers. Sometimes its tilt and another times is because people literally cant communicate. Or rather they refuse to hear each other. > , just tossing down their spells to burn her mobility is sufficient to greatly reduce her threat. They cant do that. They have to keep their mana to farm. AND BTW both of them will run out of mana before vayne does (at least early). Also her q has lower cd than theirs. > Veigar is a very good teamfighter just based on his E.......being able to basically kill almost any one target of choice later doesnt hurt either In order to kill someone alone he has to land his w, aka his target must be incapable of moving. And even then he has to use his ulti. And once its down, a veigar is half as dangerous UNLIKE vayne and her +400(after armour) aa. > and he can directly screw an ulting vayne unless she has cleanse Or she just leaves the cage before its formed. You know that 0.5 second delay. > Even if lux had like 60 seconds CD on her ult....you tell me, is that a long cooldown for something that when used well is assuredly going to send someone back to the respawn when combined with her 9 sec CD Q? No ofc its not. Hence me not including her ulti. That shit is too strong for its cd. > Doesnt matter how much DPS you´ve got if you die instantly because you got hit by 1 piece of CC that started a combo Welcome to damage creep. Do you want to know why a single cc leads to almost always death? Because this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQOLtqdwYEA (first clip especially) because of her mobility she avoids a decent amount of damage. The damage that she takes though is healed steadily but surely. Because of this riot started buffing damage so that hard cc the enemy vayne (or yasuo or whoever is dashing around like a madman) is the most efficient way of dealing with them. Fair mention the clip at 1:08, if she had gotten caught by that morgana q she (imo) would have died 9 times out of 10. Because as we saw, because of her mobility she was able to deal damage despite her being close range. The enemy just couldnt get close to her. Also another reason is things like jinx. Jinx has a very strong teamfight because of her aoe critcal. Because of this she gets to deal high damage to at least 3 targets and god help you if her passive procs. Last but not least, yi. His best counter is hard cc him literally to death because you cant deal with his barrage of true damage. In the end, 1 hard cc= death because hyper carries (and other similar stuff) just have to die fast because otherwise they are a big pain in the arse. Just like how you have to end early a game vs vayne (usually). I mean try facing a late game yi when your only hard cc is silence a vel koz e, and a darius e. Good luck killing him. > Kai´sa? Vayne? Far riskier to play and much easier to knock out of a fight when even.....after all at least they are in range to be hit. They also get tools to help them that. Kaisa has her e and a big ass ulti, something that most tanks would kill to have. Vayne has spammable q that during her ulti is also a very strong reposition tool.
HàrrowR (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Nyarlathοtep,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QdlvdxAw,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-08-19T09:51:08.631+0000) > > Yeah no. Everyone (or rather ap users) build it because its the only defensive item they get. Unlike ad carriers, mages dont get ga, lifesteal, maw or qss to deal with shit coming their way. Unlike ad assassins, ap assassins dont get, ga, maw or qss. Riot literally has one item that they can buy for defense (without hitting their main purpose, aka dealing dmg). {{item:3026}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3080}} {{item:3156}} etc. are AD defensive items but {{item:3151}} {{item:3027}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3152}} {{item:3146}} {{item:3048}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3102}} aren't? Yeah sure, mages clearly don't have anything defensive in their itemization, except every item gives 300 hp, lol. Having just these 3 items in your build {{item:3165}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3151}} gives you 600 hp 45 armor and invulnerability. Lifesteal gives sustain but is useless against burst, there's really no difference between having 600 extra hp or healing for 600 hp in a fight
> [{quoted}](name=HàrrowR,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QdlvdxAw,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-08-19T18:36:09.301+0000) > > {{item:3026}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3080}} {{item:3156}} etc. are AD defensive items but {{item:3151}} {{item:3027}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3152}} {{item:3146}} {{item:3048}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3102}} aren't? Yeah sure, mages clearly don't have anything defensive in their itemization, except every item gives 300 hp, lol. Having just these 3 items in your build {{item:3165}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3151}} gives you 600 hp 45 armor and invulnerability. > > Lifesteal gives sustain but is useless against burst, there's really no difference between having 600 extra hp or healing for 600 hp in a fight Hp makes you beefy. Since it doesnt reduce damage all it does is increase a tiny little bit the amount of punishment you can take. There is a reason why frozen heart is hardly bought. In order to be tanky you need both resistances and hp. Frozen heart provides only armour. Likewise, mage items do indeed provide some hp. But you need substantial armour in order to make use of its hp.
: > [{quoted}](name=Nyarlathοtep,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cNbWKABX,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-18T22:19:29.680+0000) > > I wouldnt really call it instant. Fast yes. Instant by no means. Also a lot of burst mages have evadable kit. Lux, xerath, vel, veigar (provided its not late enough where q r are enough to kill someone), ahri and neeko rely heavily in landing their hard cc in order to burst someone from 100% hp. > Said spell is also easy to evade (lux's, xerath's, ahri's and neeko's have travel time, veigar's and vel have delay). They have to be very ahead if they are able to burst someone without landing their hard cc. Some like Syndra can basically chaincast stuff to the point where 3 things hit in the time some others need to cast 1 ability, .....well not instant but close enough. Hells while playing Syndra and lux i have actually killed glass cannons in just two hits too, Q-E or Q-R, and that was without being anywhere near that fed. > Ad carries, superior sustain damage, low restrictions, medium range (with some exceptions), low utility. Ap carries, superior burst damage, restrictions (mana+cds), variety on range, high utility (on average). Thats literally their differences. Mages have more range because unlike adc they cant mend their wounds and not every mage is a lux or orianna where they can shield themselves. Mages tend to have better AOE, sometimes greatly so although at the cost of burst. Being able to heal is something acquired via items, and it wont save you from burst although it is indeed priceless against poke. > It varies from champ to champ. Here's an example, veigar vs vayne during laning phase. Veigar cant kill her and he cant run away unless he traps her. However vayne has plenty of movement speed (and her q) to avoid the cage with ease. Or another example, vel vs vayne. He cant land his e because her q exists. However, neeko or ahri have way easier time at dealing with her. Which is why Veig and vel koz both have to just stall and farm until later on, at some point they just oneshot her pretty much no matter what, or force her to use stuff that leaves her exposed to their teams- She is good 1v1, really so, but not nearly as much in a 5v5. > Base cds are fine if you see them. Cdr as a stat is the problem. CDR like lifesteal is a perk you gain by spending gold(possibly runes), not a default strength but even so there are plenty who have really short cooldowns even without CDR.
> Hells while playing Syndra and lux i have actually killed glass cannons in just two hits too, Q-E or Q-R, and that was without being anywhere near that fed. Yeah clip or it didnt happen. Unless your target was horrendously behind you cant kill anyone with only 2 spells. > Mages tend to have better AOE, sometimes greatly so although at the cost of burst. And higher mana costs. Aka, said pro has a con. > Being able to heal is something acquired via items, and it wont save you from burst Eh it depends. For example you get snared by lux and she unloads her kit. You can in theory fight back and if anyone is around you can aa and lifesteal. > Which is why Veig and vel koz both have to just stall and farm until later on Vs vayne you arent supposed to stall. I mean she is a hyper carry. Sure veigar has strong late too. But it cant rival vayne's. Vel has even more trouble because of how low are his ratios (his q has a good at 80%, however his w has 40% max, his e 30% and his ulti 12.5% per tick of damage). You could argue that both veig and vel provide cc, but death is the best cc. Oh in case you doubt these champ's winrates, https://eune.op.gg/champion/veigar/statistics/mid https://eune.op.gg/champion/velkoz/statistics/mid https://eune.op.gg/champion/vayne/statistics/adc > She is good 1v1, really so, but not nearly as much in a 5v5. Neither is veigar. His only aoe is w and dont get me wrong it hurts, veigar remains an average teamfighter. But still you are underestamating vayne's 5v5. Sure she can only affect 1 champ at a time. But thats all it takes for her to win a fight. One at a time. Her r provides more than enough buffs to make her a monster. And her q makes sure she will always deal a lot of damage per aa. God help you if she lands 3 consecutive hits . > ut even so there are plenty who have really short cooldowns even without CDR. Ok so here's a popular mage. Lux, q : 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 w: 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 e: 10 / 9.5 / 9 / 8.5 / 8 (i excluded her ulti because that shit has no reason to have such a low cd) Are these short? 9 seconds on a hard cc. I mean if that seems low, then wtf do you want mages to be? A rotation per 12 second? While adcs, fighters and skirmishers have a threat uptime close to always? Because if you want mages to have longer cds then you should buff them accordingly. Like their damage or hard cc. However this would increase the damage and cc creep that exists in the game.
: Could we maybe reduce the cooldown on Banshee's Veil a bit?
> Everyone builds Zhonyas because it is broken Yeah no. Everyone (or rather ap users) build it because its the only defensive item they get. Unlike ad carriers, mages dont get ga, lifesteal, maw or qss to deal with shit coming their way. Unlike ad assassins, ap assassins dont get, ga, maw or qss. Riot literally has one item that they can buy for defense (without hitting their main purpose, aka dealing dmg).
Ahri Baka (EUNE)
: Opinion : Be it popular or unpopular about Qiyana
Nah just like other assassins she is cancer. Her burst might be lower but in exchange she gets hard cc (that can be reliable spammed close to river) and a aoe knock back that can lead to an aoe stun that deals high dmg based on the targets max hp.
: > [{quoted}](name=Nyarlathοtep,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cNbWKABX,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-08-18T14:27:53.411+0000) > > 400 per hit might seem not much, until you realise its per aa. And since aa dont have any cd or cost, she can easily throw another one and increase it to 800, and another one for 1200 yada yada. And how does 1200 compare to someone dealing about 2000 damage instantly when the one doing the 1200 only has 2000? They are dead and their superior sustained damage does not matter. > True however the difference between a burst mage and an adc is their restrictions. Like i said earlier, once a burst mage has used their cds they are harmless for the next couple of seconds. On average the burst mage has more range, sometimes a lot more, so if something goes wrong they have a greater margin for error.......that and given how short their cooldowns are later on i have a different opinion for this case. From my perspective your argument applies well for melee and assassins or even shorter range mages, but not so much for the other mages.
> And how does 1200 compare to someone dealing about 2000 damage instantly when the one doing the 1200 only has 2000? I wouldnt really call it instant. Fast yes. Instant by no means. Also a lot of burst mages have evadable kit. Lux, xerath, vel, veigar (provided its not late enough where q r are enough to kill someone), ahri and neeko rely heavily in landing their hard cc in order to burst someone from 100% hp. Said spell is also easy to evade (lux's, xerath's, ahri's and neeko's have travel time, veigar's and vel have delay). They have to be very ahead if they are able to burst someone without landing their hard cc. > On average the burst mage has more range, sometimes a lot more Ad carries, superior sustain damage, low restrictions, medium range (with some exceptions), low utility. Ap carries, superior burst damage, restrictions (mana+cds), variety on range, high utility (on average). Thats literally their differences. Mages have more range because unlike adc they cant mend their wounds and not every mage is a lux or orianna where they can shield themselves. > so if something goes wrong they have a greater margin for error. It varies from champ to champ. Here's an example, veigar vs vayne during laning phase. Veigar cant kill her and he cant run away unless he traps her. However vayne has plenty of movement speed (and her q) to avoid the cage with ease. Or another example, vel vs vayne. He cant land his e because her q exists. However, neeko or ahri have way easier time at dealing with her. > hat and given how short their cooldowns are later on i have a different opinion for this case. Base cds are fine if you see them. Cdr as a stat is the problem.
: > [{quoted}](name=Nyarlathοtep,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cNbWKABX,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-08-18T12:56:32.751+0000) > > I love how both vayne and jinx both achieve burst per second. Imo, no one should have burst per second. Also, lifesteal from adcs should be removed. That vayne was healing like 150 from each hit. They changed the re-reworked kog because he could achieve burst per second with some on hit items. Yet pretty much most adcs can do it. They dont require to reach late. Still you cant control your team and if they are stupid enough to let them its gg. 400 per hit on a glass cannon is not really that much. In the same timespan while similarly fed any mage landing their combo or CC would have killed the target instantly. Hells some like Syndra/veigar would probably have killed the jinx with a basic ability rotation alone.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cNbWKABX,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-08-18T13:08:55.819+0000) > > 400 per hit on a glass cannon is not really that much. > > In the same timespan while similarly fed any mage landing their combo or CC would have killed the target instantly. > > Hells some like Syndra/veigar would probably have killed the jinx with a basic ability rotation alone. 400 per hit might seem not much, until you realise its per aa. And since aa dont have any cd or cost, she can easily throw another one and increase it to 800, and another one for 1200 yada yada. True however the difference between a burst mage and an adc is their restrictions. Like i said earlier, once a burst mage has used their cds they are harmless for the next couple of seconds.
: Nerf Vayne Please
I love how both vayne and jinx both achieve burst per second. Imo, no one should have burst per second. Also, lifesteal from adcs should be removed. That vayne was healing like 150 from each hit. They changed the re-reworked kog because he could achieve burst per second with some on hit items. Yet pretty much most adcs can do it. They dont require to reach late. Still you cant control your team and if they are stupid enough to let them its gg.
Moody P (NA)
: Garen rework misconceptions
The changes arent bad in void. However the changes apply to a juggernaut. Aka high durability and high damage. They nerf his durability for an increase in damage. However he has to opt to atk speed a stat that juggernauts cant go lest they want to lose survivability. Also about his passive. Yes its up earlier during the early game. However later on it has 2 extra cd to start. Also while they buff its hp regen to 2.5% − 10.25% of his maximum health from 2 / 8%, he losses that extra hp regen under 25%-50% max hp. So the passive changes are neutral at best.
: > Mordekaiser isnt a mage. Mages have damage accompanied by some form of utility. They are also squishy as such getting close to them is an easy way to kill them. Mordekaiser has low utility, high damage and durability. Aka juggernaut. He still builds AP, and deals a ton of AP damage, and can survive a lot. Calling him a "tanky mage" is a generalization; I wasn't going for the most accurate nit-picky definition out there. My point was that he survives too much for the damage he can deal. I use the words 'tank' and 'juggernaut' interchangeably. And his utility isn't that bad in a team fight. > Depends on the champ in question. Most durable targets wont die to a morde as long as they are equal lvl and have mr. Squishy targets have other tools (in addition of mr). Assassins have mobility and/or stealth to deal with him (ever caught qiyana as a morde only for her to be perma stealthed?) Mages have zhonyas and hard cc to keep him at bay since morde has to either land an e (rather slow) or walk towards them. Adcs come in all kinds of flavours. All of them have access to qss, some have hard cc, mobility, stealth. One of them has all three btw. Last but not least late game most adcs can face tank him if they have lifesteal (provided they try to evade some stuff). Squishy supports have utility to survive him and mikaels (if it works on themselves). I see you took my sentence out of context. My gripe isn't going 1v1 in the laning phase, it's taking someone out of a TEAM FIGHT where he can go ape on the person, then, if the person spends their abilities/mp to survive, they get dropped back in the middle of a team fight at a large disadvantage where, if the other team is paying attention, said person dies quickly. It isn't logistically survivable in a team fight scenario, unless the Morde has a bad team. Though I admit a Zhonya's is something useful to use in this case, and would help a lot (assuming you only plan to use it for him). > So you want mordekaiser's victim to get healed? I mean WTF IS THIS EVEN? Are you seriously complaining that you got damaged because you fought mordekaiser? I don't know how you jumped to that extreme conclusion unless you're using hyperbole. Though in all fairness, I could have been more clear: I got ulted; I used my abilities up to survive; got tagged right at the end and lost more than 60% of my health; I get returned to a team fight where I get one-shot with no way to dodge/avoid. One mistake right at the end, costing that much, is a bit hard to swallow. > Morde always had damage. That misses the point entirely. He does significant damage and has a lot of damage absorption. This means other damage champs end up getting more damage to counter. Then 'tanks' get more armor/health to counter... the power creeps. Extremely slowly if done well, faster if not. > Reduce his ulti duration from 7 seconds to 6.75? Yup. >Yeah no. He isnt as durable as other juggernauts. His only form of defense is his w. Which has 10 seconds cd at rank 5 (morde usually doesnt buy all that much cd). Compared to darius or illaois healing ( spammable healing based on their missing hp), its fucking nothing. Sure its 10% but still, morde wouldnt be able to function if he was fully damaged by his target AND the rest of his team. I mean, I won't say you're wrong. I'm not a professional here, but you aren't a professional, either. And the professionals don't seem to be that good recently either. > But he doesnt. Conq heals him. No morde will ever use up their shield for half of its value for hp in combat. Then you haven't played against the person who does, but I digress. Every time he hit me while in his ult, he healed. His health bar went from 25% to 80% after hitting me three times in an area where I was cornered. > No he isnt. Tanks are durable with high cc. Juggernauts are durable with high damage. Besides his ulti doesnt give him a lot of defensive stats. Its 10% of his target. At 250 bonus armour its 25. ... again, semantics. He's still durable. > Git gud. Speaking of ignorance: Not everyone has time to play LoL that much. Most players don't even play ranked, which should further indicate that many of us have lives outside of gaming, and/or don't consider this our most favorite game (Example: This game changes way too quickly for me to afford caring about every small item and champion change, so I do end up using older builds. Why? I have other stuff to do). Besides, I'm not saying the effect is bad: I'm saying it's effect on delaying decisions in the brain (during team fights, because 7 seconds is a lot of time for players to change position, requiring entirely new information to be taken in, which is slower than if there was lingering information) should be counted as part of his kits effectiveness. I've seen Guardian's Angel mess with other player's heads, and that seems stupid to even me; but it happens. Reality (new information being taken into the brain takes longer than updating the 'previous frame') and theory (getting 'good' will make your brain fast enough to identify 8 new positions, whatever abilities they use, and where you need to go according to that information as quickly as if you had been keeping track the whole time) don't always line up.
> He still builds AP, and deals a ton of AP damage, and can survive a lot. Calling him a "tanky mage" is a generalization; I wasn't going for the most accurate nit-picky definition out there. My point was that he survives too much for the damage he can deal. I use the words 'tank' and 'juggernaut' interchangeably. And his utility isn't that bad in a team fight. Well better use the correct terms. Having a lot of hp or durability =/= tank, lot of damage =/= adc, yada yada. And yes. His utility is bad compared to what a lissandra or anivia provide. Yes his utility is rather good compared to illaois. But still nothing to what others can provide. Context matters. > I see you took my sentence out of context. My gripe isn't going 1v1 in the laning phase, it's taking someone out of a TEAM FIGHT where he can go ape on the person, then, if the person spends their abilities/mp to survive, they get dropped back in the middle of a team fight at a large disadvantage where, if the other team is paying attention, said person dies quickly Doesnt this pretty much apply to everything that deals heavy damage? Syndra, veigar, cho gath, lux, brand, ezreal, fizz, zed, karthus, and some others. > I don't know how you jumped to that extreme conclusion unless you're using hyperbole. Though in all fairness, I could have been more clear: I got ulted; I used my abilities up to survive; got tagged right at the end and lost more than 60% of my health; I get returned to a team fight where I get one-shot with no way to dodge/avoid. One mistake right at the end, costing that much, is a bit hard to swallow. ^ Although you are right, one mistake and its gg. This however applies to mostly everyone. I remember once laning as swain vs kaisa (yes swain carry) and despite kaisa being a hyper carry, she still out damaged me at lvl 1 because of her isolated q. After that it was gg without jungle interference. > That misses the point entirely. He does significant damage and has a lot of damage absorption. This means other damage champs end up getting more damage to counter. Then 'tanks' get more armor/health to counter... the power creeps. Extremely slowly if done well, faster if not. I mean you arent wrong. But again, morde had always had a lot of dmg and durability (although his base stats were trash). > I mean, I won't say you're wrong. I'm not a professional here, but you aren't a professional, either. And the professionals don't seem to be that good recently either. I mean you dont need to be a professional to see whether 10% is a lot or not. > Then you haven't played against the person who does, but I digress. Every time he hit me while in his ult, he healed. His health bar went from 25% to 80% after hitting me three times in an area where I was cornered. Thats conq. He has no innate lifesteal or something. He can heal by consuming his shield. However its always half of its value. > Speaking of ignorance: Not everyone has time to play LoL that much. Most players don't even play ranked, which should further indicate that many of us have lives outside of gaming, and/or don't consider this our most favorite game (Example: This game changes way too quickly for me to afford caring about every small item and champion change, so I do end up using older builds. Why? I have other stuff to do). You are right. And this is why we hate riot games. Not only they are bad at balance changes, but they also they cant keep things stable enough for others to get used to them. > Besides, I'm not saying the effect is bad: I'm saying it's effect on delaying decisions in the brain (during team fights, because 7 seconds is a lot of time for players to change position, requiring entirely new information to be taken in, which is slower than if there was lingering information) should be counted as part of his kits effectiveness. I've seen Guardian's Angel mess with other player's heads, and that seems stupid to even me; but it happens. Reality (new information being taken into the brain takes longer than updating the 'previous frame') and theory (getting 'good' will make your brain fast enough to identify 8 new positions, whatever abilities they use, and where you need to go according to that information as quickly as if you had been keeping track the whole time) don't always line up. I understand that. But unfortunately riot has pushed the game from slow moving macro decision making to split second micro.
Hotarµ (NA)
: > Hmm thanks for answering. However i got curious by your answer. If its gameplay related, does it show chat logs? Or chat logs are always shown ? Chat logs are _only_ shown when it's a chat related punishment. You can't get punished for intentional feeding and have chat logs attached to the reform card, it's one or the other. > Because today i got temporary suspended for 14 days which is weird considering i should had gotten chat restricted for 25 games. Its like i skipped tiers however i didnt use any zero tolerance words. It was just every day flame, "bad player" and report x. If you're absolutely positive you didn't use any zero-tolerance words (even in a joking manner, they're called "zero-tolerance" for a reason) and you haven't had a 25-game chat restriction, it might have been made an error. [**Try and file a support ticket to contact Riot support directly,**](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/new) they'll be able to give you more information and help you figure out what's going on.
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=d2Wl0lRn,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-14T00:23:47.552+0000) > > Chat logs are _only_ shown when it's a chat related punishment. You can't get punished for intentional feeding and have chat logs attached to the reform card, it's one or the other. > > If you're absolutely positive you didn't use any zero-tolerance words (even in a joking manner, they're called "zero-tolerance" for a reason) and you haven't had a 25-game chat restriction, it might have been made an error. > > [**Try and file a support ticket to contact Riot support directly,**](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/new) they'll be able to give you more information and help you figure out what's going on. Ok oke thanks.
Hotarµ (NA)
: >#Chat related: **10 game chat restriction > 25 game chat restriction > 14 day gameplay suspension > Permanent suspension** > Using zero-tolerance language (like racism, homophobia, or inciting-self harm AKA "kys") will skip the first two punishment tiers. So you'd jump right to a 14 day suspension followed by a permanent suspension on your next offense. > Using zero-tolerance language is not on a separate ladder, meaning you can go straight to a 14 day suspension by saying something like "kys" and your next chat offense (even if it's for regular negative language) will **always** be a permanent suspension. [](https://.) >#Gameplay related: **14 day gameplay suspension > Permanent suspension** >AFKing is usually punished with Leaverbusters, although continued AFK behaviors can lead to 14 day suspensions or permanent bans. > **The gameplay and chat ladders are separate,** meaning you can be at a 14 day suspension for gameplay behaviors and your first chat offense will still be a 10 game chat restriction. [](https://.) >Also the in client reform card, means its from the automated system right? Manual reviews/punishments are much less common than automated ones, but IIRC they both appear the same way in the reform cards.
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=d2Wl0lRn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-13T18:15:11.562+0000) > > **10 game chat restriction > 25 game chat restriction > 14 day gameplay suspension > Permanent suspension** > > > [](https://.) > **14 day gameplay suspension > Permanent suspension** > > [](https://.) > > Manual reviews/punishments are much less common than automated ones, but IIRC they both appear the same way in the reform cards. Hmm thanks for answering. However i got curious by your answer. If its gameplay related, does it show chat logs? Or chat logs are always shown ? Because today i got temporary suspended for 14 days which is weird considering i should had gotten chat restricted for 25 games. Its like i skipped tiers however i didnt use any zero tolerance words. It was just every day flame, "bad player" and report x.
Comentários de Rioters
94372148 (NA)
: Why is Evelynn's charm ultra forgiving?
Safe? In which world is she safe? If you catch her, unlike lb fizz akali zed talon, where they can dash away or blink safely, eve has to choose between using her ulti to escape or or usually dying because she is forced to literally run away.
: > [{quoted}](name=Nyarlathοtep,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lo2HX55q,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2019-08-11T21:30:42.558+0000) > > And yet i still see small difference. So... somehow a component nullifying two completed items worth of lethality is just a "small difference" ok dude
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lo2HX55q,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2019-08-11T22:09:36.873+0000) > > So... somehow a component nullifying two completed items worth of lethality is just a "small difference" ok dude But its the truth. Im vs zed, without armguard i take 2/4 of my hp from his kit (pre 6). With armguard i take a bit less than 2/4. The durability increase is rather negligible. Later one lethality complete counters the armour that zhonyas provides. Its like im playing without armour. Assassins dont need lethality to kill squishy targets. Lethality items still provide ad which is what they need to kill squishy targets.
Antenora (EUW)
: {{item:3191}} - Hi guys I make the lethality on 2 completed items worthless and I only cost 1100 gold.
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lo2HX55q,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-08-11T09:19:54.452+0000) > > {{item:3191}} - Hi guys I make the lethality on 2 completed items worthless and I only cost 1100 gold. And yet i still see small difference.
: Mordekaisar's Ult... How?
Wow this post is so... ignorant. So many stupid things. I wonder if this post is legit or troll. > Letting a tanky mage take someone out of battle Mordekaiser isnt a mage. Mages have damage accompanied by some form of utility. They are also squishy as such getting close to them is an easy way to kill them. Mordekaiser has low utility, high damage and durability. Aka juggernaut. > then 1v1 someone for that long isn't logistically survivable by the opponent, Depends on the champ in question. Most durable targets wont die to a morde as long as they are equal lvl and have mr. Squishy targets have other tools (in addition of mr). Assassins have mobility and/or stealth to deal with him (ever caught qiyana as a morde only for her to be perma stealthed?) Mages have zhonyas and hard cc to keep him at bay since morde has to either land an e (rather slow) or walk towards them. Adcs come in all kinds of flavours. All of them have access to qss, some have hard cc, mobility, stealth. One of them has all three btw. Last but not least late game most adcs can face tank him if they have lifesteal (provided they try to evade some stuff). Squishy supports have utility to survive him and mikaels (if it works on themselves). > The opponent is punished for surviving. How is that fun? So you want mordekaiser's victim to get healed? I mean WTF IS THIS EVEN? Are you seriously complaining that you got damaged because you fought mordekaiser? > And then afterwards Morde pulls/can pull something akin to a Nasus Ult AOE larger than Nasus' own You do know that mordekaisers aoe in passive is supposed to hurt right? Like, try fighting close range a nasus under his ulti. Or a yorick with his waifu. Or a darius with his noxian might. Juggernaut's theme is a raidboss. > Seeing this rework, it's no longer a wonder that there's so much power creep in this game. Morde always had damage. The first i know ( the one before he was reworked to go bot) was a mage that poked to death with his e before bursting with his r. Then CT changed him and his e got heavily nerfed. His q got changed too. His q back then worked like aatrox q. 1st q x, 2nd q x*2 and 3rd q x*3 or something like that. It got changed fast iirc. Up until his reworked his q still dealt a lot of damage. So no, his damage is more or less the same. It just got less bursty and more sustainy. > That needs a hard nerf: Reduce the time by .25 seconds Reduce his ulti duration from 7 seconds to 6.75? > and let him take partial damage (let's say 10%) from other champs while he's in there. Yeah no. He isnt as durable as other juggernauts. His only form of defense is his w. Which has 10 seconds cd at rank 5 (morde usually doesnt buy all that much cd). Compared to darius or illaois healing ( spammable healing based on their missing hp), its fucking nothing. Sure its 10% but still, morde wouldnt be able to function if he was fully damaged by his target AND the rest of his team. > Alternatively, don't let him heal while inside. But he doesnt. Conq heals him. No morde will ever use up their shield for half of its value for hp in combat. > He's a tank, he can and should have to survive his own ult without healing if it's that powerful, No he isnt. Tanks are durable with high cc. Juggernauts are durable with high damage. Besides his ulti doesnt give him a lot of defensive stats. Its 10% of his target. At 250 bonus armour its 25. > Also, getting pulled into an alternate dimension and getting thrown back is enough of a distraction to the player that it should be counted as part of Morde's effectiveness. In teamfights alone, the confusion of having to stop and look around to find who you're supposed to focus (assuming you miraculously take no damage) is disorientating and can cost a death. Git gud.
: > [{quoted}](name=Nyarlathοtep,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Esi3ufOp,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2019-08-09T21:51:14.535+0000) > > Scorch has terrible scaling. Late game (and by that i mean 30 min) it becomes a non factor. Corrupting pot is also present only during the early-mid phase. After that it gets removed. Liandries truly procs. However i highly doubt that a 1.5% max hp burn for 3 seconds is going to hurt much a squishy target. Besides this item is usually bought when the mage faces a beefy target. Rylais deals 0 damage. Comet can be evaded with a right click. Although rylais usually helps landing it. However rylais is on hell of a rare item nowadays. > > As for the post as a whole now, you are right cds and mana costs are a non existent factor. Late game that is. Early on there is plenty of window to punish a lot of champs (mages i assume because they tend to rely on skillshots and they are the ones with big mana pools) . Here some examples, > > CD / MANA > Xerath, Q: 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 / 5 (80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120) > W: 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 (70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 ) > E: 13 / 12.5 / 12 / 11.5 / 11 (60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80) > R: 130 / 115 / 100 (100) > > Lux, Q: 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 (50) > W: 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 (60) > E: 10 / 9.5 / 9 / 8.5 / 8 (70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 ) > R: 80 / 60 / 40 ( 100) > > Swain, Q: 10 / 8.5 / 7 / 5.5 / 4 ( 65 / 70 / 75 / 80 / 85 ) > W: 22 / 21 / 20 / 19 / 18 (70 / 85 / 100 / 115 / 130) > E: 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 (60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80) > R: 120 ( 100) > > Annie, Q: 4 ( 60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80 ) > W: 8 ( 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 ) > E: 10 ( 20) > R: 120 / 100 / 80 ( 100) > > Anivia, Q: 10 / 9.5 / 9 / 8.5 / 8 ( 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120) > W: 17 ( 70) > E: 4 ( 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90) > R: 6 ( 75 MANA + 40 / 50 / 60 PER SECOND) > > Lissandra, Q: 10 / 8.5 / 7 / 5.5 / 4 ( 60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80 ) > W: 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 ( 40) > E: 24 / 21 / 18 / 15 / 12 ( 80 / 85 / 90 / 95 / 100 ) > R: 120 / 100 / 80 ( 100) > > Depending on their job they have different cds. Xerath's job is to poke you. Thus his main poke tool, q get low enough as you rank it up. On the other hand his utility and only defensive spell isnt as low. The same applies to lux too. Her poke tool e gets low enough as you rank it up to poke. And her utility and defensive spells arent as low. > > Swain gets low enough cds (his q mainly) because, well, his w is easily evadable (not that great of a damage), his e deals low damage (and despite swains kit being designed for melee range, e works best at long ranges). As such he has only his q to deal damage. > > Although i cant speak for their thinking behind mana costs, these will forever be beyond me. > > Imo base cds are fine. Cdr is the problem. All lost chapter items have cdr. Are codex items have cdr. And these 2 items are components for a lot of core items that mages have. > > As for their mana pools, its how they want them. They want mages to have high mana pool. So they can stay alot in a fight but once dry, they remain dry. And they can go dry. Every being a xerath trying to hold an incoming siege, clearing waves after waves, only for a fight to commence and you having only 10% of your mana? Sure i can try to proc my passive. However a minion wont suffice. I have to go for a champion. To do that i have to expose myself to his threat range since i have to go close to 525 range. > > Moreover im highly disturbed by the fact that mages sustain ( in mana) bothers you when , enchanters never run out of mana, tanks rarely get mana problems (mostly because they tend to die after a fight) and in addition they get warmongs in case they need hp regen, adcs and skirmisher have access to lifesteal items meaning they can go from 10 hp to 1000 hp just by farming cs. Wait. Are you actually about to argue that Taric, Nami and bard don’t run out of mana?
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Esi3ufOp,comment-id=0001000200000000,timestamp=2019-08-10T01:14:35.165+0000) > > Wait. Are you actually about to argue that Taric, Nami and bard don’t run out of mana? Holy fuck i forgot about taric's existence. Been a long while since i saw one. You are right he does run out of mana. I can imagine late game too. But not nami and bard. Their supp items provide them with a lot of mana regen.
: > [{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Esi3ufOp,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-09T09:16:08.435+0000) > > Unless you have 800 hp and 0 mr, that ludens proc won't take 1/4th of your hp, its 100+10% ap or 200 dmg and 1k ap. > That 800 dodged skill shots reward you with not dying and enemy not getting the kill. What other kind of reward do you need? +50 gold for every dodged skillshot? > ADCs have their cooldowns and costs on AA nonexistent since forever. Except Ludens applies spell effects for some stupid reason. So no. It’s not 100 damage. It’s Ludens + scorch + corrupting pot + liandries + rylai + comet
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Esi3ufOp,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2019-08-09T19:18:42.278+0000) > > Except Ludens applies spell effects for some stupid reason. So no. It’s not 100 damage. > It’s > Ludens + scorch + corrupting pot + liandries + rylai + comet Scorch has terrible scaling. Late game (and by that i mean 30 min) it becomes a non factor. Corrupting pot is also present only during the early-mid phase. After that it gets removed. Liandries truly procs. However i highly doubt that a 1.5% max hp burn for 3 seconds is going to hurt much a squishy target. Besides this item is usually bought when the mage faces a beefy target. Rylais deals 0 damage. Comet can be evaded with a right click. Although rylais usually helps landing it. However rylais is on hell of a rare item nowadays. As for the post as a whole now, you are right cds and mana costs are a non existent factor. Late game that is. Early on there is plenty of window to punish a lot of champs (mages i assume because they tend to rely on skillshots and they are the ones with big mana pools) . Here some examples, CD / MANA Xerath, Q: 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 / 5 (80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120) W: 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 (70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 ) E: 13 / 12.5 / 12 / 11.5 / 11 (60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80) R: 130 / 115 / 100 (100) Lux, Q: 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 (50) W: 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 (60) E: 10 / 9.5 / 9 / 8.5 / 8 (70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 ) R: 80 / 60 / 40 ( 100) Swain, Q: 10 / 8.5 / 7 / 5.5 / 4 ( 65 / 70 / 75 / 80 / 85 ) W: 22 / 21 / 20 / 19 / 18 (70 / 85 / 100 / 115 / 130) E: 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 (60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80) R: 120 ( 100) Annie, Q: 4 ( 60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80 ) W: 8 ( 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 ) E: 10 ( 20) R: 120 / 100 / 80 ( 100) Anivia, Q: 10 / 9.5 / 9 / 8.5 / 8 ( 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120) W: 17 ( 70) E: 4 ( 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90) R: 6 ( 75 MANA + 40 / 50 / 60 PER SECOND) Lissandra, Q: 10 / 8.5 / 7 / 5.5 / 4 ( 60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80 ) W: 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 ( 40) E: 24 / 21 / 18 / 15 / 12 ( 80 / 85 / 90 / 95 / 100 ) R: 120 / 100 / 80 ( 100) Depending on their job they have different cds. Xerath's job is to poke you. Thus his main poke tool, q get low enough as you rank it up. On the other hand his utility and only defensive spell isnt as low. The same applies to lux too. Her poke tool e gets low enough as you rank it up to poke. And her utility and defensive spells arent as low. Swain gets low enough cds (his q mainly) because, well, his w is easily evadable (not that great of a damage), his e deals low damage (and despite swains kit being designed for melee range, e works best at long ranges). As such he has only his q to deal damage. Although i cant speak for their thinking behind mana costs, these will forever be beyond me. Imo base cds are fine. Cdr is the problem. All lost chapter items have cdr. Are codex items have cdr. And these 2 items are components for a lot of core items that mages have. As for their mana pools, its how they want them. They want mages to have high mana pool. So they can stay alot in a fight but once dry, they remain dry. And they can go dry. Every being a xerath trying to hold an incoming siege, clearing waves after waves, only for a fight to commence and you having only 10% of your mana? Sure i can try to proc my passive. However a minion wont suffice. I have to go for a champion. To do that i have to expose myself to his threat range since i have to go close to 525 range. Moreover im highly disturbed by the fact that mages sustain ( in mana) bothers you when , enchanters never run out of mana, tanks rarely get mana problems (mostly because they tend to die after a fight) and in addition they get warmongs in case they need hp regen, adcs and skirmisher have access to lifesteal items meaning they can go from 10 hp to 1000 hp just by farming cs.
: {{item:3193}} is good for bulking on resistances in group fights (gives 80 mr) But then you run into the problem of just having a ball of stats that can be penetrated and no passives that cant be, Tanks can buy omen against adc, adaptive helm against dot / low cooldown magic damage....what do they buy against ad casters and ap burst....
> what do they buy against ad casters and ap burst.... Hp. Once a burst mage has used his kit he has nothing else to do than aa. Ad casters too, if their aa didnt have 100% ratio.
: My yearly Tristana Post: Solo Lane Tristana
Jokes on you i want 0 diversity. However there is something to note with you saying that diversity on is equally annoying with the adc going in other lanes (top specifically). You see, down in bot you are either a ranged carry, a ranged support, or a tank support. However when a ranged carry goes top he will usually face a melee champ. Among them there are mobile ones like irelia riven fiora camille renekton. However, among them there are also immobile ones, like darius morde illaoi nasus garen urgot aatrox (contrary to popular belief he is immobile he cant spam his dash to close distance because he needs it to reposition his q), sure the most mobile juggernaut but still immobile to the likes of riven and fiora) yorick volibear ornn maokai . Almost all these immobile champs are designed to more or less lane vs melee champs. They lack the tools to deal with ranged picks. When these (lets call them IMC) get pitted against ranged picks, they have to rely on their jungler to help them (unreliable) OR that they make a grave mistake. Like going melee as vayne vs darius. Additionally IMC's counterplay usually involves kiting and cc, something that almost all ranged picks have. Sometimes one of them and other times both of them. Vayne for example has her q (kiting) and her e (peeling). Tristana has her high range dash (that can also be used to also dodge some hard cc because of how it functions) and her ulti (for peel). Cait ( i have seen her only once in top) has her w (cc) and her e (peel that also doubles for kiting). Like what can a volibear do when he faces caitlyn top? Sure cait's e has 16 cd vs voli's q 12 but voli will have to somehow overcome her traps. Not only that but, cait herself will also play safer now that her e is down. And all these would be somewhat bearable if it wasnt for the fact that because of their carry nature they also scale very well to late. A cait will outscale almost all IMC. So, IMC cant play the "stall to late" tactic because the enemy benefits more by reaching late. And these applies to tanks too. To a lesser extent because of their utility. Most ranged pick that goes top, even the most weak early, becomes a bully to almost all IMC. (i didnt bother with adcs in mid because i find them rather less than optimal to say the least. A tristana that goes to face a fizz or akali is asking to get killed)
Antenora (EUW)
: I'm tired of AP champions one rotation killing me as a 5k hp 226 MR chogath.
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dEHz8H14,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-08-01T19:42:32.412+0000) > > I'm tired of AP champions one rotation killing me as a 5k hp 226 MR chogath. They cant. Unless the champ in question is veigar. Sustained damage ap carries can kill you but not in a single rotation. A cass will have to cast multiple e to kill you and azir will have to pump a lot of aa to finish you.
Antenora (EUW)
: Tanks as a class are meant to be most effective against Mages and Assassin's in the sense they can peel for their backline and make the Assassin's / Mages have to hit them. On the flip side, Tanks are meant to be vulnerable to consistent DPS Marksmen or Fighters.   My opinion on this is as follows **Mages and Assassin's should never be able to shred a tank.**
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dEHz8H14,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-08-01T17:40:31.269+0000) > > Tanks as a class are meant to be most effective against Mages and Assassin's in the sense they can peel for their backline and make the Assassin's / Mages have to hit them. > > > On the flip side, Tanks are meant to be vulnerable to consistent DPS Marksmen or Fighters. > >   > > My opinion on this is as follows > > **Mages and Assassin's should never be able to shred a tank.** If mages cant threaten a tank, then what exactly should they do? They are after role primarily a dps class. You could argue that xerath vel lux and ziggs have enough range to reach the backline quite often. But the rest? Not so much. And despite being able to reach the backline their primary job is to deal damage. If they cant damage the enemy, then whats the point in picking them? Mages on general rely on abilities that a lot of the times are easy to avoid because of their skillshot nature (xerath, vel). Those that have point and click have low range making them easy to get close and because they have ranged base stats they are easy to punish (annie, ryze). Besides, unless the mage in question is azir, cass, vel, brand or karthus, i highly doubt you arent exaggerating. Hp helps against burst because once a burst oriented champ has no abilities he cant threaten anyone for some seconds as such he cant deal damage.
: The thing that bothers me the most about all this is everyone complaining about Pyke 'regenerating and being unable to be poked out of lane'. It's the whole point of Pyke. Sustain the poke damage that is heavy in the current meta (brand, zyra, etc) and regenerate without issues. If you want to win vs Pyke, play zilean. He's legit unable to do anything and you can poke his adc down with bombs while spamming CTRL 4 because he can't heal his adc. Like for real if you're going to try to poke down a guy with free built in sustain, you're dumb. It's like saying hey Vladimir is OP because I can't poke him out of lane. No shit bro, it's his design and key characteristic. I know Pyke is annoying af to play against, but he's honestly so easy to counter. Just pick zilean, R when he jumps in the air, enjoy free win.
> It's the whole point of Pyke. Sustain the poke damage that is heavy in the current meta (brand, zyra, etc) and regenerate without issues I mean you arent wrong but, he has a lot of stuff going for him. Just like the post said, his base stats and passive make him difficult to poke out. Pretty cool oke nothing wrong with it. Then there is also the fact that you cant all in him because of his e and w. His e gives him shit tons of escape capabilities. For instance, you hook him with thresh right? Well he will just e away, giving safe distance and forcing the enemy to move sideways (or burn mobility spells) to avoid a stun. Like if you cant poke him or all in him wtf you are supposed to do? If pykes knows how to play you cant win against him unless you counter him but... > If you want to win vs Pyke, play zilean. Maybe ( idont know zilean vs pyke) but the thing with this is that, if a champ needs a counter to be killable, then this champ needs huge adjustments (provided both champs are equal skill lvl). We might not be able to pick that champ. Or it might screw our teamcomp. Or we might not know how to play the counter outside the laning phase. There are alot of variables that make the argument "pick x to y" very unreliable and bad.
: And instead of nerfing aatrox heal or poke harass they remove his REVIVE
> [{quoted}](name=CaptainAntiHeroz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UEKrVbsz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-30T05:45:47.570+0000) > > And instead of nerfing aatrox heal or poke harass they remove his REVIVE They cant nerf his healing. Thats literally the only thing he can do nowadays. Hell its the only thing that sets him apart pretty much every other juggernaut. If something his healing is way more valuable than that 30% revive. Poke? OH you mean that e+q ? His q has a long cd meaning you can easily punish him when its down.
Ahri Baka (EUNE)
: Ahri is no way a counter to Rammus , she can't even damage him lol
> [{quoted}](name=Kitsune Kawaii,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qd6iVeHu,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-29T17:23:45.947+0000) > > Ahri is no way a counter to Rammus , she can't even damage him lol True. But neither can janna. Both of them stop his q with ease. Which is basically half of his kit.
: Do not first pick rammus.
And people want league of counterplay back **chuckles**
: Team comps are important too. If you are losing as {{champion:23}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:412}} against {{champion:58}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:53}} you would be a moron to surrender no matter how far behind you are. Just stall it out and you will eventually win.
> [{quoted}](name=AlienPrimate,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=piEAoeBk,comment-id=000000000002,timestamp=2019-07-27T13:20:32.527+0000) > > Team comps are important too. If you are losing as {{champion:23}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:412}} against {{champion:58}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:53}} you would be a moron to surrender no matter how far behind you are. Just stall it out and you will eventually win. You should win eventually you mean. You will be surprised how many games you will lose because your teammates throw like monkeys.
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Nyarlathοtep

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