Nice. Also remove player names while posting such images.{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}

No. All supports are still viable, but needs to be played different and late game these two are better because both can build{{item:3179}} and has passive to make up for reduced gold generation.

No. One can farm upto 80cs without penalty in 20mins and I suggest all supports to farm at 2-3cs/min {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}

Weak early game with Tier 1 and 2 with removal of stats means they need some sort of compensation atleast at Tier 3. It is situational but majority of players who are not in top 2% of ladder let huge waves to die to tower. If non-supp player is going to collect it because of this change, it is totally good-but discouraging support for doing a good thing is bad, because the name "Anti-poaching" itself is subtle bullying.

Nice. And yes, idk why Relic procs count and it needs to be fixed. 4cs/min is not bad, but in late game like you have shown there are times where before or after a fight there will be huge waves crashing onto tower or pushing for it. p.s: {{champion:516}} maybe a very good supp because of his engages and not needing to base other than buying {{item:2055}} . He can technically collect farm that adc is going to miss while forging items.

They can still do it if they're doing it under limits (20cs/5min). Problem in it also removes the option of clearing it in many useful situations without penalty.

Most of the mage supports can insta clear waves while few champs like {{champion:111}} {{champion:235}} {{champion:555}} can clear 20cs in 5 min easily.

It is not about 80cs in 20min, but more than 20cs in 5 min. I can get to mid game with 5-10 cs in 15 mins but if there is a huge wave and no one is collecting, if I take 20+cs in 5 mins as supp it gets penalised. There are lot of cases where this can happen and how is it wrong?

No. If ADC is recalling and coming back to lane, it isn't an issue because it is roughly 2 waves which can be taken without penalty. Problem is during late game where there is a huge wave crashing on a side lane or into base. Few supports can take it, but with penalty if the count goes over 20cs/5min.

^ Yes. Especially when it is a good thing to have in many situations.

Agreed. As a mage support player, I get that the removal of mana regen was supposed to be an indirect nerf to mage supports to remove them from supports while not being suited for mid lane-but ultimately it hurts few enchanters too. But the bad gold income, especially on Tier 3 support items, is unhealthy for all supports except a few like {{champion:555}} with his passive gold generation through R and {{champion:235}} with her passive scaling it is hard to be relevant in mid-late game. Support can't even be ward bot because with lethality, drakes becoming more important, alcoves and third bush in lane- I expect jg to camp bot lane and mid laners to roam to bot often in early game and in mid-late game they're simply behind in level with reduced gold than previous patch and have high chances of insta-deleted if caught alone.

Agreed and they shouldn't have removed heal from relic shield items; it is better to keep a reduced heal(like they did for execute range) or just remove it for ranged champions-because keeping it for ranged champs means it is just shoving in {{champion:235}} more than they did with new items for her. Let us hope they change it soon.

** ADCs right click simulator** Atleast in low elo, they don't even right click. They just auto attack and spend half of the time in harassing support. **I tried playing on the SEA server as well as EuW, and had to stop before a potential ban because playing top/mid feels punishing** Playing Supp is far worse than those two roles and playing on SEA is the worst. Gold 3 on Garena Singapore is actually Silver 3 on EUW and what's worse is that there is no punishments; you can flame full game and you will not be banned. Playing duo is the only way to minimize the tilt and I highly recommend you to uninstall SEA because other than ping, everything is just too bad: queue times are long, no moderation, skins are costly and updates take too long. I won't be surprised if they've started to mine bitcoins using players' pc.

+1 Also remove demotion shields along with this.

Idk which game you're commenting about, but if a mage supp starts {{item:1056}} it is one of the indications that they're either bad or don't have any knowledge of supp. If you'd said them to go {{item:3303}} first and they started with doran's, it is intentional. Though taking cs isn't against rule, not taking support item is kind of giving advantage to opponents in vision game; as a supp I punish opponents hard for not having enough vision by warding their jg and setting up ambushes. Now, as an adc you did great by keeping cool because I have seen adc players troll/int/afk even if I had taken like 5 cs in 10 mins and not even disturbing their farming; however, as soon as you see your supp start with non supp item just freeze the wave near turret-only last hit opponent minions and let them push. I don't know the matchup, but freezing in bot lane is always effective and unless the {{champion:161}} times spells correctly they cant take minions. Idk what champ you played too, but as an aa champ you can farm more than ability users; am not justifying their actions, but they've cooldowns and constraint on mana-but you don't. Lastly it is not advisable to write report player X, because that itself is reportable(strange right xD). I remember I had troll/feeding/afk adc players because I picked mage supports, even in my promo games to Gold 4. It is all about grinding games and don't get frustrated because you will be seeing such supports and also mute chat, to save your mental state. Gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}

Ultra Rapid Fun{{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}

We will see bot lane feeding even more because they're going to be behind in levels more than they're now.

Because things like Level 3 {{champion:35}} ganking bot lane when bot duo are Level 1 happens.

> Is there a certain reason riot allowed this kind of match up? To reduce the queue times. Always check player profiles during champ select and just dodge such kind of matchings;I am not saying it will be always a loss, but probability of such games being losses are very high.

They're duo with support, but still it is strange and is good example of why matchmaking is bad. Always check this in champ select and dodge such games.

> [{quoted}](name=GilxeN,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=iENiXLso,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-10-03T07:20:40.151+0000) > > No idea why u are upvoted, doesnt make any slight sense. Don't you know that players go afk/rage quit the game because there is no real punishment, especially like after first 1-2 deaths without even worrying about their team? No idea how you could've never come across such players who could go afk after moving once and can hold the team hostage for next 10-15 mins. If you don't even know this, it is really strange.

Sadly players can int/troll/afk and get no punishment, while their team mates are punished for it. Don't get frustrated by it and just keep grinding. gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}

It is because matchmaking is inclined more towards giving games faster than giving fairer games and simple solution I follow is to **dodge whenever I find a player who is +/-2 ranks from mine**. From my games I hardly had any game where so many players were +2 ranks from mine and always had so many players -2 ranks from me. I don't buy the consolation comments of "MMR is same" and "Rank doesn't represent skill", so instead of playing random number generator on win/lose, I simply dodge such games because I am content with losing LP than losing MMR and my mental state. Don't get frustrated and as you say it is just gambling; keep grinding and over time you will eventually climb higher. Gl hf{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}

It is because how bad matchmaking is and in that game, your mid and jg were pre-made, so to make it fair your support was chosen from below the average tier level-because for duo they add some mmr. Imo I would've just dodged that game, because it was a sure loss(imho): top was unranked player who isn't good with vlad and supp was like 2W-9L so far. If there were no duo, you would've never got a Bronze 1 support and even if the bad matchmaking is aiming at lower queue times, it won't go 1 full division(gold 4 to Bronze 1) and there is usually 3-4 ranks difference at max. I think MMR should be visible, so that players who come and write "MMR is same" kind of jokes see these differences and matchmaking should be made better. Don't get frustrated with such games and gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}

If players stop underestimating damage-respect ganks, play safer, rotate well to stop feeding in first 5-10 mins game will be "strategic"; unfortunately even with pings/warnings, players like to feed and decide the game in first 10 mins itself. I often find players feeding first and then complaining that they got counter picked/ganked/camped but never prepare for this. I am not asking someone to go like 15+cs lead and 2-3 kills ahead of opponent when they get countered/camped but it isn't hard to get little behind opponents in cs to not feed them.

Imo this buff (100 range increase) is for making pro players pick {{champion:53}} in the upcoming world tournament and this should make players to learn side-stepping in laning phase especially in and around silver.

I hear they found more {{champion:99}} skins and so no news on it.

Most of ADC players are bad and can actually ruin the game+day for the support and team. But there are good and nice ADC players too {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}

Because there is no punishment to rage quitting and that is why players do it whenever they wish. It is a team game and in silver and nearby ranks it is often someone doing this after first blood or in first 5 mins. Only if leaving/afk in game is punished for real it will reduce and don't get frustrated by this. It is just adding to your grinding and nothing more.{{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}

Oh! Wow, 18 bad games in 3 days {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}

I don't think there is any limit for that and even if someone is writing I am going to intentionally ruin the game, they won't be punished; and even if they're punished, submitting a ticket and writing "I had bad games like 50 games in a row" will lift the ban. p.s: I won't be surprised if this post itself gets removed saying it is too negative or not useful or something like that.

Agreed. Imo the solution for this is to keep segregating players-if they're toxic, afk, feeding or trolling flag them as X and those who aren't doing all these as Y. Over time, Y players are the ones who actually care about climbing and just make games for them like team of Y vs team of X. Feeding or trolling is difficult to segregate, so some sort of team mates feedback+proof can be used over games to find it. This way those who are putting efforts to learn and climb will get similar teammates. This won't mean they will climb easily, but the games won't be demotivating and tilting as before.

Players actually consider buying control wards waste of gold in low elo {{sticker:sg-janna}}

There is no punishment for afk/rage quitting. Leaver buster isn't even punishment when players are running to feed and quit after it, intentionally ruining games by it. Create a smurf and You can try this and can see that you can int/troll/afk in multiple games-ask your team mates to report to get 5 min or 20 min low priority queue. On other hand be toxic for 2-3 games and you will get 14 day ban.

There is no punishment for rage quitting and feeding+rage quitting is lot easier than playing safe and trying hard to play for the team. Inters/trolls also same case; I was happy that sometimes inters are punished, but recently saw a post on boards of how one player inted in few games and then raised a ticket to lift his/her ban-which effectively makes that inters aren't punished too.

Ranked system should be renamed as RNG system (for all modes I guess) {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}

Wdym Fully transparent MMR ranked system? Imo, just revealing the MMR will make the current system Fully Transparent MMR system. MMR being hidden/invisible isn't the problem here-but how the matching/match making is done for games is the problem along with no punishments for trolls/afk/feeders. Matchmaking uses the Matchmaking Rating, which is elo based and hidden/not it is one of the best methods for estimating players' skill numerically. Players' skill grow over time and MMR takes more games to settle because it is always a cat and mouse game of actual MMR and estimated MMR. Rank and LP are visible metrics given for MMR, which aren't mysterious if one understands how mmr is calculated and how matchmaking is done. Flat MMR is not perfect and is way worse because irrespective of how hard a matchup is, the gain in MMR is just constant; it will just slow up the climb, because any rating system will never accurately calculate a player's skill in initial games and with flat mmr climb will be even slower forcing players to play even more games than it is now. I agree that promos should be removed and demotion shields also should be removed-which will increase the swing of ranks, but no more frustrating f*cked up games halting players from climbing in name of promos means overall it will be motivating to play. Finally, I agree-there should be some sort of **Player Idea Polls** where players can write and vote for ideas which should be modified in-game, rather than giving out bugged patches {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} .

If trollers/afk/feeders are going to be punished like toxic players are punished, I am ready to give honor, lp, rp, be or whatever I can give in-game for it{{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} .

I am not a ADC main or high ranked player, but as a support main I understand how hard it is for adc+supp to play when they're behind. So I think I can share some things I do: * I ward a lot and I buy few {{item:2055}} whenever I can; I have {{item:3364}} too so, surprise ganks are very less. Ask your support to do this and always play in safe zones; safe zones are areas where you can farm safely and no threat of opponents attacking you. {{champion:51}} has her W to cover some possible ways opponents will come by, so use it to the fullest. It reveals the opponents getting trapped, so will be better against stealth champions. * {{item:3111}}{{item:3047}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3026}} are some items to be built against heavy ap/ad compositions and in general build things that makes you not getting insta-deleted. Being behind adc is probably the easiest target to get kills off, so don't be that adc who builds full ad or crit and die often before even getting 3-4 attacks. * Follow team; don't push alone, beyond vision lines and try to play around objectives. I often find my adc running into enemy territory after T1 tier to farm with no vision in their jg and it is basically inviting opponents for free gold. While drake spawns, or baron is to be taken try to be near it so that it can be taken faster. * Be the annoying backline, who does damage and goes back to safe place before opponents can react. Assassins will be targeting you, so always keep safe distance between you and them. {{champion:222}} can snowball well, so all it takes is 1 or 2 good fights and once she is excited she can just run down opponents and for Cait, always try to get the head shot on squishy champs and not tanks. With more damage, they can't jump in to kill you first and with your backing off, force them to play in disadvantage of hp always. * Ping your cc ability and always chain cc whenever support or someone roots/stuns someone; both Jinx and Cait has root and a slow-so make sure to show opponents that if they get hit by any cc it is going to be trouble for them. I played {{champion:143}} {{champion:518}} {{champion:111}} and every time I get {{champion:51}} {{champion:202}} it is lot easier because 1-2 second root suddenly becomes 3 second root and with my ultimate I can prolong it to 4-5 seconds. For Zyra and Neeko they have multi hit root on E, Naut is tanky ball who can hook and root 1 target opponent and can root nearby opponents with passive; Zyra, Naut have multi hit knockup with R and Neeko has stun-so as long as they stay in range, the cc chain on one target is sure death. With R you can clean up from far away, so can actually stay back after fights and let team mates chase. * Last tip is to mute chat, don't get frustrated or tilted because someone is flaming/blaming or you're behind. Try to be useful in different ways and you can always see map for tracking opponents, to ping/warn for gank/ambush or taking a drake/going for baron kind of shot-callings, which will improve your macro knowledge as well as help team mates. Gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}

They're feeding or afk just because there is no punishment; they're not punished because they force players to play more ranked games, as they're one of the major reasons for games being coin-flips in and around silver{{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}} .

{{champion:350}} -We got the zoomies_{{sticker:sg-lulu}} _

Normal games, Solo/duo queue and Flex queue are separated and have individual ratings. So playing normal games won't affect your LP gain on ranked and in a way it is good to learn the champions in Normals first. > You have a separate MMR in each queue, so you can climb in one queue without it affecting others. https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide

If there is tenacity , {{item:3111}} {{item:3140}} {{item:3139}} to reduce cc , why not have an item or a rune to increase effect of cc?

I think {{champion:105}} can work as a full damage assassin support, but he has no cc and is good after level 6-I haven't played him much, so not sure how he will do in 2v2. Also from my experience of playing mage supports, you're going to trigger the flame/troll/afk/feed button of adc players. gl hf

Ah! Seems to be a problem due to update, do file a ticket: possibly under **"Tech Issues: Install, patch, lag or crashes"** [Ticket](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?flash_digest=82d2d692afd183266a2962800b8fa27c069a4c4b)

Good {{champion:81}} players are hard to catch especially early game and if overextended with his strong early game he can cause more damage. Imo, it is better to push him away from farming, making him get behind in cs and level early game and concentrate on the support. Even if there is no kill, abuse the poor waveclear of Ezreal and try to freeze wave near middle or turret to make them over extend or make some mistakes.

It is not problem with matchmaking; players picking {{champion:67}} {{champion:20}} into {{champion:498}} {{champion:99}} lane is lost imo and there is no other way but to dodge such a game.

Smurfs are indeed annoying and the way some players write in chat, the experience for new players is bad. I also agree that it is slightly worse than other moba in early levels, don't be frustrated with it. Initial few levels are always hard in some games and once you're like level 30+ you will get better experience. Ranked ladders (Solo/duo queue or Flex 5v5) are lot better, even if they've smurfs and till you reach higher levels I suggest you to play with nice players you come across or join Discord server to find good team mates there. Also understand that the smurfs you see or the toxic players you see aren't the community and are just the annoying part of the community. gl hf