: As a Lane Kha'Zix main: Will he ever see love again?
> [{quoted}](name=KhaZix Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IygmE45c,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-22T16:29:14.754+0000) >It would be nice to not have to explain how it works to every team in solo queue to stop them from trolling me over the pick, though. Why do I have the feeling you're still playing it with smite. Honestly tho, as a jungle main my viable champion pool gets shifted around year after year, sometimes patch after patch. No offense but Kha'Zix being bad in lane seems an irrelevant issue when a lot of champions aren't viable anywhere.
: The same way is adcs do. You just suck it up.
I'd argue that botlane is the less matchup-reliant role in the game. Even supports are affected by their matchup more than adcs
XDynamite (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=nomeL,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jUttEyjV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-18T00:39:07.196+0000) > > If you're level 6 and your laners are lv 8-9, you've either died multiple times, ran around doing nothing for 3 minutes, or didn't secure any objectives. NomeL is right. Stop crying on boards bronze players , better go learn how to play jungle and then comment. Currently when the midlane reaches lv6 you reach level 6. And jungle is an role where you don't do flashy outplays.in the jungle you make a lot of decisions an improvise a lot during the game. {{sticker:sg-syndra}}
I understand that laners want to keep their advantage and didn't like the spam gank meta. What I don't understand is how is it possible for them to spread lies and nonsense like this one comment without realising soon they'll get autofilled in jungle every 3 games.
Shiwachu (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=nomeL,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jUttEyjV,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-18T01:21:06.364+0000) > > I mean I agree that it can be frustrating always having the jungle changed but if the game doesn't change a lot then it would become stale, Riot wants to keep the game fresh to stay relevant. In my opinion, I think you're over exaggerating. It's easy to tell if a lane is gankable, and if it isn't then you secure camps, crab, or drag/herald. If you really fall so behind it means you aren't using your time efficiently. Riot forums are worse than reddit lol, only place a post can get totally buried for being objectively correct The OP has a fundamental misunderstanding of jungle as a role if they think the natural state of junglers is to be equal or higher level to laners without having snowballed or having gotten an insane lead Please stop crying and improve your pathing rather than screaming into the void about how the numbers are why you're losing games
Someone else has a fundamental misunderstanding of english apparently. As if theythink the natural state of junglers should be falling 4 levels behind if they die twice and 1 level behind if they go 6-0 while farming efficiently.
: Okay to be fair? To be fair though. Most pub jgs don't understand the concept of farming and plop down staring at a lane waiting to unsuccessfully gank for minutes on end. If you farm quickly as jg, creeps still yield a good amount of gold/exp. I'll agree that usually one jungler per game is 2 levels down from mid/top but notice it's always the jungle that constantly left multiple camps up and/or didn't play around the enemy jg whatsoever.
The problem is that for one of the junglers to keep up the other will be forced to avoid fights OR camps. I honestly hardly ever play games where both junglers keep up because the winning one will feed off the losing one.
TarJan (NA)
: Jg exp is too low
Very divisive topic, a lot of people thinks you can still sort of keep up with laners and in a way that's true, the problem is that if you fall even a little bit behind you are basically out of the game with no hope of coming back. Another problem is the viable champion pool, which was heavily reduced due to the absolute necessity to have a super strong early game. Playing jungle is FAR too punishing today, no other role falls behind so quickly and has so little windows to recover.
Elohaven (NA)
: Why can Aphelios Out-DPS every champion with Chakrams
Like every other new release just ban for a month until he gets nerfed.
: Remind me again why early surrenders need to be unanimous?
Because people will try to ff a very winnable game just because they had a bad early and have no idea what a win condition is. Everyone wants to be THE CARRY even when they're the worst player on their team and they refuse to play around others to try and win anyway. This feature is CRUCIAL in low-mid elo to avoid bad players affecting your winrate even more than they already do.
klin537 (NA)
: if its a power farmer like shyvana don't expect many ganks. The point of these champions is to farm early and carry late. Certain other champions have level 6 power spikes that they might be waiting for before they gank. These include nocturne rengar, shyvana (again), jarvan, diana, etc. The handful of champions that are spam gankers (lee sin, xin zhao, and ones like yi and ww that can spam gank and power farm) may seem annoying, but if you notice that they are on the enemy team it's your job as a laner to not die to them. Knowing what you're up against doesn't just apply to understanding the enemy laner since junglers can have an impact on lanes, it's your job to know what type of jungler you will be going against so you don't get overly aggressive when you shouldn't. If you don't know much about jungle champions, you can ask your jungler as they will likely know more about jungle matchups. and that's all decided in champ select. There are plenty of other factors that other people mentioned so I'm not going to repeat them.
If it's a power farmer expect to lose as they're not even viable since preseason
: Good jungle players aren't aware of an issue, which is that not everyone is a them player. Maybe you and others who are good do play for the team, there's lots of jungler who don't. A Rammus I had today, he had less damage dealt than out 0-8 Ahri, yet he was 4-2-2, so how did he only do 3k damage with that score? Simple, he only played for kills. Would even run to base at full hp right next to a fight than help. After the whole season 9 of playing jungle, now that I moved back to Lane it's so much easier to see when your team's jungler is doing nothing. Heck, had a game that after my jungler and his duo left we almost won it, as 3v5, if they would've left sooner we might have actually won that.
> [{quoted}](name=IP Masquerena,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HBHQIPOs,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-12-17T18:10:12.652+0000) > > Good jungle players aren't aware of an issue, which is that not everyone is a** TEAM **player. > > Maybe you and others who are good do play for the team, there's lots of **LANERS** who don't. Fixed
: If Diana pulls in one or more enemy champions, the moonlight crashes down onto her after one second, dealing 200/300/400 (+0.6 ability power) magic damage in an area around her, increased by 35/60/85 (+0.15 ability power) for each target beyond the first pulled Diana's old ultimate, Lunar Rush, is now her new E. The cooldown is 22/20/18/16/14, as opposed to 25/20/15. The cost is 40/45/55/60/65 as opposed to 50/65/80 mana. The damage is 40/60/80/100/120 instead of 100/160/220. basically, diana trades off about 60-100 less damage for her dash and gains 200-400 extra damage she gains with her ultimate, which scales, and does AoE damage that can blow up their entire team. It's simple math buddy.
You are disregarding the halved AP ratios on her abilities as well as ignoring that the increased damage is avoidable. If you call in "simple math" you shouldn't mess it up
: Ornn would be considered overloaded. I think you meant overpowered @OP? Overloaded is fine when tuned right. Aphelios is in no way overloaded IMO. Just needs good tuning on what he has, and trust me, I'm quick to complain. Source: I post on the forums.
You're not actually getting the meaning of overloaded.
: is nobody gonna talk about diana?
It's really nothing special, also she has to stack the passive in the right time frame and land the Q in order to do any burst. Just play around that, don't blame champions if you don't know them enough to hope to play against them. Other midlaners/assassins are A LOT more oppressive.
Ornn (OCE)
: ***
Yeah, that must be it. Still weird that I can carry as an ADC after having only played melee junglers since season 0.
: You're looking at it the wrong way. All those things should get pulled with morde. HE's OP enough as is. his ult is basically just an auto win get fed mechanic as is.. Not only that, but you don't even need to see akali to wreck her in your ult... pop your AOE, now you get a permenant ping on her to see where she is, and start slamming your skillshots down ontop of her and laugh as there's nothing she can do to stop you...
: > [{quoted}](name=BlackXIV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wfl4kacI,comment-id=0010000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-14T04:02:18.843+0000) > > I can just laugh. Using worlds as meta indicators, considering the sustain from conqueror, forcing nunu in a 1v1, nothing makes sense. Nunu is forced into 1v1's by any half decent conqueror abusing jungler, and since he lacks mobility it's not like he can escape a lee sin or reksai engaging on him. Worlds/LCS are the very definition of meta indicators. Aatrox and Urgot were deleted from the face of the earth precisely for this reason, as was mage/yasuo bot lanes. But somehow you got a better grasp of the game than the people who make a living out of it.
I'll go in-depth since you play dumb. Worlds never worked as a meta indicator in history, not only because every player is challenger+ level but because organized play is very different from soloQ. You often see them prioritising picks that are hardly viable in soloQ and vice versa (Quiyana jungle to make a quick example). Worlds is just good at showing what is overpowered and exploitable under the right conditions. By the time Lee stacks Conqueror on an early fight he already used most of his damage and either won or lost the fight already. The jungle is not an arena, Nunu has damage, CC, disengage and in a realistic scenario should have a substantial health advantage not to mention he can build early armor into Lee without hindering his build path. Lee falls off while Nunu doesn't. Regardless of these considerations I never intended to match them up against each other, I'm just saying Nunu is stronger in this meta as proven by winrates, in which he beats Lee by 2% or more at EVERY POSSIBLE ELO. Lee is way too risky in this meta, his poor scaling paired with the lowered jungle income means that he HAS TO win hard early or he simply turns into a minion by minute 10.
: You Know What I Hate The Most About Jungling?
The best is when mid doesn't move from under tower, bot is always in base feeeding or recalling without the basic wave management then they whine at you (the only one with a positive kda and 90% participation) for leaving all Drakes to the enemy. XD
Ornn (OCE)
: junglers aren't weak stop being delusional
Junglers are below weak, stop being on the typical toplaner drugs
: Well if you're not playing a carry jungler, that's meant to happen. You can't {{champion:64}} have your stupid early game making lives hell for enemy laners and expect to hyperscale as well. Carry junglers still become a threat as they powerfarm, which is more feasible now with the lower spawn timers. I can now do a full clear, show up to ~~soak even more exp~~ pressure for a few seconds, then reset and do another full clear because the camps would've respawned.
That's just false. If you power farm you give up all the pressure just to stay afloat which is why even with the new timers farming junglers are extint. You take a scaling champion, you lose before you scale. If you gank and take a bunch of kills on an early-focused champion you don't snowball like you would have in the past or like any laner still does.
: > [{quoted}](name=BlackXIV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wfl4kacI,comment-id=00100000,timestamp=2019-12-11T12:00:54.531+0000) > > The jungle is garbage right now but your statements are incorrect. Nunu is toptier, much better than Lee atm. > On level 3, with no items there are no tanks and assassins, only skillsets. If Lee/Ekko lands all spells on you and you don't you die, simple as that. > > Also it's just false that anything can outsustain Nunu an WW currently. Oh, please, Nunu didn't see the light of day on worlds or LCS, Lee did. And Lee with conqueror will outheal Nunu's full rotation of cooldowns trivially. Nunu can virtually duel not a single jungler that isn't Ivern. His damage is garbage and his cooldowns are long. All you are is a snowball gank bot and dragon secure bot with your Q.
I can just laugh. Using worlds as meta indicators, considering the sustain from conqueror, forcing nunu in a 1v1, nothing makes sense.
: Discussion on the Sylas changes
lol, he was already a trash tier jungler in late S9 and out of the role in preseason.
HàrrowR (EUW)
: Diana must be in top 3 worst and most frustrating champions to deal with in this game
They literally just halved most of her ratios with the mini-rework
: > [{quoted}](name=BlackXIV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aJBzwWG4,comment-id=0004000000000002,timestamp=2019-12-11T12:25:14.498+0000) > > Where are tanks more viable and what does it have to do with jungle? > > Troll Tanks are more viable toplane and jungle due to the nerf of conqueror. Also being underleveled for a tank is less problematic thant being underleveled as an assassin because tanks bring utility while assassins bring raw damages.
The BUFF to conqueror with the removal of the true damage is a non-factor in this regard. The jungle changes, however, made ALL tanks obsolete in that role with the only exception of Zac.
: Boards season 9 "bouhouhou we can't play tanks, they are not viable, and damages are too high". Tanks become more viable and the jungler earn xp slower "bouhouhou we don't like this, please revert" And you still wonder why Riot just do not listen to the player base ? =')
Where are tanks more viable and what does it have to do with jungle? Troll
: Lets be realistic the majority of the jg changes from season 7 onwards weren't good. I really do understand how riot hasn't revert jg back to something similar to season 5 or 6 where you know the jg was pretty stable especially in season 6. This isn't me being nostalgic this is me being like o jg felt better and was change MUCH less. Like I swear xp in the jg gets changed so much.
Yes, S5 and 6 were the all time best. Not just for junglers but for the whole game.
: The unique change that sucks is the dragons How now is a important objective, is so frustrating when you are playing rengar being lvl 3 and a Lee Sin lvl 4 do the dragon without items Ridiculous
Nah that's normal, the ridiculous part is how Rengar is suddenly out of meta.
: > [{quoted}](name=JVee3,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wfl4kacI,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-12-10T17:00:42.910+0000) > > Can anyone tell me why jungle is always being nerfed? Because having your games won and lost primarily on the decisions made by one player is not even remotely enjoyable. I've seen and been in way too many games where lanes were doing fair-to-good, but the enemy jungler basically ran away with the game and became a nightmare. "gg jungle diff" isn't just a meme.
Jungle never had that much impact, that's just a story toplaners like to tell to justify their usual lack of engagement on the map. With the preseason changes "jungle diff" became a meme that doesn't make anyone laugh anymore because the single junglers are nerfed to the point of being set behind by default BUT the matchup between them has even more impact than before since it's likely one of them is going to to be turned into a minion in the first 5 minutes.
: > [{quoted}](name=NumberOneBaller,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wfl4kacI,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-10T01:04:10.122+0000) > > All it really did was give a massive advantage to champions that can clear quick and have strong ganks. This fact is becoming more and more evident the more I play. It's almost like you made this new jng for {{champion:64}} while trashing the remaining 80% jungle rooster. Saw a VOD where Lee is clearing more quickly and healthy than my Nunu is despite Lee being a massively higher damage and mobility champ. Can anyone explain to me why Lee Sin is as durable as he is, or assassin junglers and bruisers for that matter? An Ekko by lv3+ is running my tank Nunu out of jungle camps because he can clear healthy and despite my resistance items outsustain me and kill me. As an assassin vs. tank. What the hell.
The jungle is garbage right now but your statements are incorrect. Nunu is toptier, much better than Lee atm. On level 3, with no items there are no tanks and assassins, only skillsets. If Lee/Ekko lands all spells on you and you don't you die, simple as that. Also it's just false that anything can outsustain Nunu an WW currently.
: I know how to fix top issues and make the game more interactive, PORTALS in alcoves!!!
Paroe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=RedOpticToxin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Kf6akOK,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-12-11T07:43:57.567+0000) > > This is unfair to junglers and midlaners though Mid laners already have an inherent advantage and riot has proven time and again they dont care about junglers who arent Vi, Elise, Jarvan, or Lee Sin.
I love how you think that since rito mistreats the jungle it's ok to also spit on them
: > [{quoted}](name=Yordle Gunner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Kf6akOK,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-11T07:23:45.571+0000) > > (on cooldown after use) connect both Alcoves with portals that the laners can fight to control and the one that stand on them after capturing gets sent to the other alcove and puts the portal on cooldown. > > This would really liven up the game. For one it would give each side another thing to fight over and that interaction would lead to more interactions across the map and more plays. It would allow Top to have more impact on Dragons. And say a Supp or ADC to help top if they are getting camped. The possibilities with this are many and it would be awesome. Champions that have global ults will lose a lot if this happens. My Shen will become really bad.
f**k Shen. The game is broken, we can worry about single champions later
Garson211 (EUNE)
: Your Shen will be nerfed if nothing change.together with GP (i hope maybe this grasp abuser ends badly) TF. I will post it all time. Delete alcoves they are useles ppls using them maybe 1 times by 10 or 20 games and when using they die anyway ( o yea that INSANE youtube ALCOVE OUTPLAYS "flash over wall noone do it before") Buff tp (let us cancel and make lower cd) not overall lower cd but for expample "when use near or teleport to top turret cd is reduced by 40%" that change give ppls chance to fight for drakes and heralds.
: The jungle changes weren't good
Jungle now is a support on a timer, he gets the game going in the first 10 minutes then watches if the laners can work with the little impact he's had so far while he gradually turns into a minion with no utility. I used to suck at the game but was still able to carry on a killing spree, now it doesn't matter if I play a perfect game I still end up even with a losing solo laner AT BEST. I play bot sometimes, I lose lane, I farm a bit and I win the game almost by myself. Mid can just 1v9 if his opponent fucks up the matchup. How does it make any sense? #boycottjungle
sufeng (NA)
: Life of a Jungler
Mained jungle for 9 years 9.23 came out Currently learning botlane, already winning more.
: "Better jungle wins” situation has accelerated
That's not better jungle wins mate, it's just broken jungle. If you stopped with the nonsense maybe riot would understand but no, you whined about jungle impact and this is the result.
: It's weird. With current jungle it is very easy to have higher cs and gold than the sololaners but less levels. So you are up 1000gold and down 2 levels. And it becomes very good for cancer champs like Master yi.
up in cs, yes (because of how the camps are counted) Up in gold? not by a longshot
pwc2016 (NA)
: Jungle is by far the worst it has ever been
Jungle now is a support on a timer, he gets the game going in the first 10 minutes then watches if the laners can work with the little impact he's had so far while he gradually turns into a minion with no utility. I used to suck at the game but was still able to carry on a killing spree, now it doesn't matter if I play a perfect game I still end up even with a losing solo laner AT BEST. I play bot sometimes, I lose lane, I farm a bit and I win the game almost by myself. Mid can just 1v9 if his opponent fucks up the matchup. How does it make any sense? #boycottjungle
: Hi, you must be new. Pre-season 5 jungle was worse than this. The majority of players (or so it seemed based on the number of complaints on the boards) could not even solo their camps, much less do anything else without help. Though that had more to do with players being use to the season 4 jungle where camps did no damage and had no hp than the actual difficulty.
I remember being able to hard carry from jungle in S5 and 6, camps were tougher but rewarding, meant ganking was a tradeoff you had to consider when picking. It was beautiful
Raiyza (NA)
: I dunno man. Lee Sin appears to be thriving.
: And that's how you lose because you let an opponent spiral out of control. Congrats, you're the reason your team lost. Yeah. Those 5 things are pretty damn important. They're also going to be irrelevant when Darius walks up to you and is 7/0 because you spend more time helping already winning lanes than actually saving the losing ones before it was too late.
I love how you pretend that a situation like that even has a window of opportunity. By the time the Darius (or Riven/Fiora/Jax/Illaoi whatever) gets ahead (let's say 2-0) and gets to level 6 the jungler cannot get near. Most toplane champions with a lead can 1v2 easily and jug will always be behind in resources if the preseason changes don't get reverted. As it stands today not even a jungler with 3 kills can get near a snowballing top for a 2v1. So it's not really a choice, you can only gank even and winning lanes and if your lanes don't win and don't freeze you can't do shit, you'll just farm and end up behind anyway.
SansAnime (EUNE)
: Who has the heaviest sword in LOL?
- Kirito's swords are not heavy, they're "regular" longswords, I watched the anime a while back and didn't love it but I don't recall the weight of the swords ever being of importance. - Heaviest sword in LoL is Tryndamere's, regardless of what some may think due to relative sizes, Trynda's one of the strongest characters yet his animations heavily emphasise on the sword's weight.
Alex Luu (NA)
: Jungling XP and people taking camps
I tried, I adapted to the meta very quickly, even found some success but the game is frustrating and unforgiving for junglers. I used to endure the trash talk from laners and the gap in resources because I just liked playing the macro game and being in control of the whole map but nowadays I'm just always starved and never in real control of anything. I get ahead if the enemy laners are dumb but in 5 minutes I can turn into a minion if my laners are too. One mistake (mind you, even if you're not the one making the mistake) and you're out of the game. I'm outta here, I'm changing role after 9 years until they fix this. #boycottjungle
Theorex (NA)
: time for some garen nerfs.
Already getting nerfed anyway
Kazekiba (NA)
: {{champion:266}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:104}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:246}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:498}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:154}} VAST majority of champions clear the jungle fine. Multiple runes are tailored specifically for jungling. Who are these 'champions cannot hope to clear'?
You could get much higher stats from the old runes than the 10 AS, 9 adaptive and 6 armor you get now, that's a hard fact. I used to run 24% AS + 8 armor (or something close to it) on some champions. If many champions can clear is only due to the jungle itself. I'd also say your list is a shot in the foot, about 20% cannot clear and 40% don't get close to viable.
: Old runes + Jungle = nightmare until you hit 20's or higher. Some champs couldn't even hope to clear without a good page.
> [{quoted}](name=Buck Strickland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EA88eEkd,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2019-12-08T19:10:34.389+0000) > > Old runes + Jungle = nightmare until you hit 20's or higher. Some champs couldn't even hope to clear without a good page. now those champions cannot hope to clear, period
mack9112 (NA)
: This board is too divided on this topic to make a logical conclusion on a daily basis I see arguments for both sides which is literally impossible.
That's just toplaners being afraid of losing their advantages (and not the high elo ones). Everyone else hates the changes.
: This post is to serve to illustrate the numbers of the XP changes. Make of them what you will. > Put another way, every five waves adds up to an extra caster minion for solo laners and one fewer for bot. Straight from the [patch notes](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-923-notes#patch-top-lane-influence). Note that the "one fewer" refers to between the two of them so it's a little over half of what 1 caster minion is worth unshared. 1 caster is worth half of a melee or 1 third of a cannon so you can regard them as being worth 1 xp, 2 xp and 3 xp. Even if we take the shared XP as half (which it is is more than), every 2.5 minutes you're losing 0.5 XP bot and top is gaining 1 XP for 1.5 caster minion of difference, or 3 every 5 minutes (every 10 waves). 5 minutes in: 3 casters 10 minutes in: 3 casters and 1-and-a-half melee 15 minutes in: 3 casters and 3 melees (1 non-cannon wave) 20 minutes in: 1 cannon wave 25 minutes in: 1 cannon wave and 3 casters 30 minutes in: 1 cannon wave, 3 casters and 1-and-a-half melee 35 minutes in: 1 cannon wave, 1 non-cannon wave 1 cannon wave for a solo lane is usually worth some half of a level, less later on.
Doesn't look like peanuts to me, it's quite substantial. Also you have to consider solo lanes received an opposite buff making the gap double of what you describe and jungle is in an even worse state. Honestly do not understand how people can defend the exp changes, they are utter trash.
: you dont understand why the least impactful role and the 2nd most impactful role needed a buff ? (idk about that second one either) while the the 1st and 3rd got nerfs (and the other role that always eats shit because of adcs got nerfed too. I understand why this one happened even if i dont agree with it.)
Your implied role impact ranking is just wrong.
BigFBear (EUW)
: I am jungle otp and the games where I get fed and can carry went from ~15% to maybe 3%. Now it's pretty rare that I even get my third item finished.
I carried a game on WW, finished 11-4-10, 3 levels below my Kayle toplane with wrong runes and items.
: > [{quoted}](name=BlackXIV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oNc93Xe5,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-04T13:12:00.533+0000) > > I'm gonna have to downvote even if you're basically right. > > What you mention is not a jungle importance problem but quite the opposite. Since jungle lost it's weight no one wants to main it and you're stuck with autofillers. Autofill jungle is particularly bad because while it require less matchup knowledge than a lane it has a higher basic role knowledge requirement. > > Jungle can hardly win a game today, and that is the main issue but what you see is how easily it can LOSE a game. By your own definition jg can win games by not losing it... The better jungle will get all the objectives and be an actual champion while the losing one will not. Do not see how one team have 5 champions while the other have 4 doesnt impact the game and causes the team with 5 not to win. In order for your statement to be true then it would mean jungle doesnt matter but that couldnt be further from the truth right now.
That's just twisting an argument at leisure. A bad jungler turns the game into a 4v5 easily, that's not jungle impact. It's just harder for other roles to fall behind so quickly because they're not as starved, simple as that. Also try playing a bit of jungle before assuming the role has impact and it's not just the neutral objectives. Junglers decide 1-2 Dragons AT BEST. The rest are a team effort.
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